I've been seeing a growing number of stories about parents raising the children to be "gender neutral". In that the parents do not reveal the sex of their children to anyone. Even the children, who are aware of their own body parts and how they may differ from others, are not taught to associate those body parts with being a boy or girl. If no one knows a child’s sex, these parents theorize, the child can’t be pigeonholed into gender stereotypes.
Have we really gotten to the point where being a boy or a girl is considered a matter of choice?
Looking at this through the eyes of a parent, how can this not be a form of child abuse? You are essentially retarding your child's development, whether it be emotional or sexual. Unless a child is born as a eunuch, they have a specific set of genatalia, which by definition is their gender.
Hell, the children are even referred to as "Theybes" because use of specific pronouns is forbid in those households.
Maybe this is what happens when one starts to get to the "get off my lawn" age, but this just seems fucked up on so many levels.
I disagree for obvious reasons.
I would think exposing a child to a potential deadly virus, while also endangering the public around for no proven reason is indeed a form of abuse. Or at the very least neglect
I would think exposing a child to a potential deadly virus, while also endangering the public around for no proven reason is indeed a form of abuse. Or at the very least neglect
I wasn't referring to that. You should vaccinate your children.
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Genitalia determines sex, not gender.
only when changing definitions for political reasons.
Yup...
Gender has always been defined by your sex then a bunch of bat shit crazy liberals decided to change it and now in the UK a woman was just arrested for "misgendering" someone.
Bat shit fucking crazy
That might change how 'strange' or 'wrong' that feels.
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Genitalia determines sex, not gender.
only when changing definitions for political reasons.
Um, no.
Oy.
The source and frequency will very much help contextualize the issue. Thanks in advance.
Understanding that there is a mental component to all aspects of identity is neither a liberal nor a conservative idea.
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Let's not get carried away here. How many people are actually doing this? It's likely to remain a fringe movement that will do nothing material to the country at large, like a cult.
The group has been around since 2015 and currently has about 750 members.
Gender has always been defined by your sex then a bunch of bat shit crazy liberals decided to change it and now in the UK a woman was just arrested for "misgendering" someone.
Bat shit fucking crazy
It really is bat shit crazy...
You have a boy who may want to be identified as a girl. Meanwhile, this confused mother fucker still looks more like a boy than a girl. As a result, people call him a HE or HIM because for a few thousand years, humans could tell the difference between a boy and a girl just like we can tell between a cat and a dog.
In the end, if this confused boy wants to be called a girl and does not want people to call him what he really is... then maybe he can do a better job or playing the role and actually LOOKING like how he would prefer to be identified.
They should take a look at all of the trans gender guys in Thailand. Even Stu got fooled by this guy.. or girl in the link below.
This guy does not care what pronoun you use - ( New Window )
Anything contrary is liberal anti-science bullshit.
Same with anti-vaxxers.
Fuck these people.
At the risk of leaning too far toward the political side, I'm not sure I've seen "liberal" alongside "anti-science."
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They are determined by their chromosomes.
Anything contrary is liberal anti-science bullshit.
Same with anti-vaxxers.
Fuck these people.
At the risk of leaning too far toward the political side, I'm not sure I've seen "liberal" alongside "anti-science."
The Anti vaxxers and anti GMO crowd are largely populated by liberals
But I understand, as I enter my 40's, that I am old and likely don't understand the issue as well as I should.
Gender as has been pointed out in this thread can be far less tidy, both physically and emotionally, than many think.
In the limited reading I've done the spirit of the movement is to let kids come to identify their gender on their own, not deny gender, and unsurprisingly most kids come to a pretty quick conclusion. But I'm far from an expert, maybe there's something more cooky going down?
Who knows - not long ago the conventional approach to signs of ambiguous sexuality in kids was to shock it out them - so maybe the conventional approach on these topics can progress?
In the limited reading I've done the spirit of the movement is to let kids come to identify their gender on their own,
right there is the problem. To even suggest to them that they can identify their gender is ridiculous. They are born with their gender...period. I suspect a group of "woke" parents sit them down and actually tell the kids they need to "decide".
Absolutely ridiculous and it makes about as much sense as you or anyone else deciding that they want to be a grizzly bear.
It would seem to me, however, that it's less harmful than forcing a gender stereotype on someone for whom it does not fit. The kids who have gender identity issues have very high suicide rates in part because they're pressured to be something that they aren't naturally. It's easy to be outraged or mock this approach, but can we say for sure it's not a safer way to bring up a kid?
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a handful of people can screw up the entire population of a country.
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Let's not get carried away here. How many people are actually doing this? It's likely to remain a fringe movement that will do nothing material to the country at large, like a cult.
Yes, my exact point. A small group will force everyone else to do what the small group wants or be sued, arrested, or bullied on social media. IIRC, The state of Washington has a similar law so now we have firepersons, police persons, etc. They are trying to weed out the use of "man" so the jobs are gender neutral. They want to ban the use of he and she...
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In comment 14296076 Bockman said:
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They are determined by their chromosomes.
Anything contrary is liberal anti-science bullshit.
Same with anti-vaxxers.
Fuck these people.
At the risk of leaning too far toward the political side, I'm not sure I've seen "liberal" alongside "anti-science."
The Anti vaxxers and anti GMO crowd are largely populated by liberals
I think that the anti-vaxxers cut across many lines. I've read of liberals, conservatives, religious, conspiracists, and the hopelessly gullible all being coutned among the anti-vaxx groups.
Now, anti-GMO or gluten-free is probably a different story.
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For instance, girls are often valued for their looks, while boys are praised for their intelligence. Girls are told to sit still, while boys are encouraged to participate in the world around them. These gender roles impact children for the rest of their lives and can even have lasting consequences to their health and wellbeing. In order to prevent unfair treatment and potentially even discrimination because of gender, some parents are choosing to raise their children as gender-neutral.
If the supposition that traditional gender roles have lasting consequences to health and wellbeing and avoidance of that is a driver to go gender neutral, I would think those being raised gender neutral will most definitely face unfair treatment and discrimination at a higher rate than if they were raised traditionally.
To me, this is the salient quote and it's applicable to so many of our modern ills. We see a problem and don't directly fix the bad behavior but, rather, go to a weird extreme to side-step the problem. The solution here is not to create or force gender neutrality, but it's to educate and eliminate the sexist behaviors or stereotypes.
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In comment 14296003 section125 said:
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a handful of people can screw up the entire population of a country.
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Let's not get carried away here. How many people are actually doing this? It's likely to remain a fringe movement that will do nothing material to the country at large, like a cult.
Yes, my exact point. A small group will force everyone else to do what the small group wants or be sued, arrested, or bullied on social media. IIRC, The state of Washington has a similar law so now we have firepersons, police persons, etc. They are trying to weed out the use of "man" so the jobs are gender neutral. They want to ban the use of he and she...
I dont think this is a real thing.
I quick search of WA gov website refer to them as fire fighters and police officers. If you have a problem with those labels, I dont know what to tell you.
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In comment 14296286 santacruzom said:
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In comment 14296003 section125 said:
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a handful of people can screw up the entire population of a country.
.
Let's not get carried away here. How many people are actually doing this? It's likely to remain a fringe movement that will do nothing material to the country at large, like a cult.
Yes, my exact point. A small group will force everyone else to do what the small group wants or be sued, arrested, or bullied on social media. IIRC, The state of Washington has a similar law so now we have firepersons, police persons, etc. They are trying to weed out the use of "man" so the jobs are gender neutral. They want to ban the use of he and she...
I dont think this is a real thing.
I quick search of WA gov website refer to them as fire fighters and police officers. If you have a problem with those labels, I dont know what to tell you.
No those are fine, but it does not end there - go a little further and see if there are fines for using ...man, etc. And I believe it goes further than just renaming positions...
But you are nitpicking my terms, I am is still technically correct - no more fireman, policeman. And why is it necessary for a gov agency to pass a law to tell people what to call jobs?
It goes with my point of small groups requiring others to conform to them.
Dunedin81 : 9:14 am : link : reply
Harassment and stigma alone don't really provide sufficient explanation.
Hell, I'd hazard a guess the environment plays a larger part in the suicide rates than gender. From the accounts I've seen, Sweden is on the cutting edge of this and they are one of the leading suicide rate countries in the world.
That's probably fair - cause and effect is always dicey with mental health issues. I guess I look at this a little personally. I have a close friend who's son said he didn't want to be Daniel anymore - that he was truly a girl. We had a long talk about it. He did a lot of research about how difficult it is for transgender to fit in society and how much greater the mental health risks are for them and they decided to be supportive of his (now) daughter.
I guess I'm saying that it's easy to sit back and criticize. Neither of my kids have expressed any gender/sexuality issues so far. But that conversation was pretty fucking real for me and we should probably consider if the one size fits all model of child rearing is not always the best approach.
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In comment 14296393 section125 said:
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In comment 14296286 santacruzom said:
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In comment 14296003 section125 said:
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a handful of people can screw up the entire population of a country.
.
Let's not get carried away here. How many people are actually doing this? It's likely to remain a fringe movement that will do nothing material to the country at large, like a cult.
Yes, my exact point. A small group will force everyone else to do what the small group wants or be sued, arrested, or bullied on social media. IIRC, The state of Washington has a similar law so now we have firepersons, police persons, etc. They are trying to weed out the use of "man" so the jobs are gender neutral. They want to ban the use of he and she...
I dont think this is a real thing.
I quick search of WA gov website refer to them as fire fighters and police officers. If you have a problem with those labels, I dont know what to tell you.
No those are fine, but it does not end there - go a little further and see if there are fines for using ...man, etc. And I believe it goes further than just renaming positions...
But you are nitpicking my terms, I am is still technically correct - no more fireman, policeman. And why is it necessary for a gov agency to pass a law to tell people what to call jobs?
It goes with my point of small groups requiring others to conform to them.
Again, I don't think that exists. I don't think there is a law telling people what to label jobs. I think its fear mongering fake news.
If you have evidence showing people are getting fined for using "man" I will reconsider.
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The suicide rates have been sky-high even in quite tolerant societies
Dunedin81 : 9:14 am : link : reply
Harassment and stigma alone don't really provide sufficient explanation.
Hell, I'd hazard a guess the environment plays a larger part in the suicide rates than gender. From the accounts I've seen, Sweden is on the cutting edge of this and they are one of the leading suicide rate countries in the world.
Individuals who want to identify as something else have some deep rooted mental issues that are also leading to suicide. The radicals will have you believe that the suicides are happening because these people are not accepted into society.
The statistics show that if society decides to "accept" these other genders as normal, that will not result in a decrease in the suicide rates.
The ACA is mandatory and the plan will cover psychotherapy. I would recommend that people who feel confused should take that step first before heading over to the plastic surgeon.
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Harassment and stigma alone don't really provide sufficient explanation.
That's probably fair - cause and effect is always dicey with mental health issues. I guess I look at this a little personally. I have a close friend who's son said he didn't want to be Daniel anymore - that he was truly a girl. We had a long talk about it. He did a lot of research about how difficult it is for transgender to fit in society and how much greater the mental health risks are for them and they decided to be supportive of his (now) daughter.
I guess I'm saying that it's easy to sit back and criticize. Neither of my kids have expressed any gender/sexuality issues so far. But that conversation was pretty fucking real for me and we should probably consider if the one size fits all model of child rearing is not always the best approach.
good post.
I only know of one person who appears to be doing her best to raise her child gender neutral. She's a workplace acquaintance, and I can't remember what gender the baby (now two) is biologically, and all she ever dresses them up in is browns, greens, grays, etc. As a result, its easy for me to use non-gender specific pronouns because I can't tell if I should be saying him or her.
Beautiful kid too, but I basically avoid any interactions because I don't want to offend - and this lady seems to be the type who will definitely take offense.
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In comment 14296003 section125 said:
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a handful of people can screw up the entire population of a country.
.
Let's not get carried away here. How many people are actually doing this? It's likely to remain a fringe movement that will do nothing material to the country at large, like a cult.
Yes, my exact point. A small group will force everyone else to do what the small group wants or be sued, arrested, or bullied on social media. IIRC, The state of Washington has a similar law so now we have firepersons, police persons, etc. They are trying to weed out the use of "man" so the jobs are gender neutral. They want to ban the use of he and she...
Well, good luck to them. They'll fail, and the only thing of consequence will be reading about their existence and getting a little annoyed.
And it's not.
We have transgender members, people who have flipped one way or the other, and the topic is VERY much in the open there, but this stuff about raising kids 'neutral' - no, this is the first I've heard of it.
That said, its obviously possible to live ones children unconditionally, as they are, without being too pushy one way or the other.
For example, in 7th grade, my daughter announced that she had 'married her girlfriend during lunch'.
My response? "Welcome to the family, have you done your homework?"
That's the important thing. Do the damn homework! It's how schools work nowadays and you can't fall behind!
That said, its obviously possible to live ones children unconditionally, as they are, without being too pushy one way or the other.
For example, in 7th grade, my daughter announced that she had 'married her girlfriend during lunch'.
My response? "Welcome to the family, have you done your homework?"
That's the important thing. Do the damn homework! It's how schools work nowadays and you can't fall behind!
Are they still together?
Eat
Be honest.
Work hard at what you love.
Try to go to college, if you can, and or join the U.S. Navy.
Don't be promiscuous. Stay away from grownups if they are innappropriate.
Don't use drugs or drink.
THIS :
It's really no problem if you.. or a friend wants to wear a dress or whatever. Who cares?
Just. House rules are:
no violence, no weed, no booze, hopefully no sex but let's get real.
And do the god damn homework for once in your life.
My girl is true blue, big, country heart (although she doesn't understand) stuck in a cold city world.
She's suffering. But I attribute that more to environment than to sexuality. They are all everything or what have you.
It's a very diverse and open school but it's not the deep River....it's hard to explain. But we are not haters of any kind.
Let's say, 1860....or...1940...
Whereas there may have been less tolerance in the public square,(as opposed to today) there was probably far - more - respect for privacy and the sanctity of your home.
So. If two men who you knew (in your home town since first grade) lived together, say, 1935.. 1945. .nobody really questioned it in your home town. Privacy...nothing is new under the sun...and lives were led.
Not to condone intolerance, in other ways back then. Not at all.
But it's far more complex than we pretend.
For example, the first British Governor of New York wore a dress openly. Nobody said shit, he was the authority.
Or....1890s....cross dressers ..most folks wouldn't notice or conceive that there was another gender under the apparel.
Women served 'as men' in the Civil War, for example.
If it's really promiscuity you are against...me too...or egoism, or narcissistic world views..me too, those suck ...or...identity based rackets and insular or self dealing habits..me too, those things truly do suck.
But break out those issues as separate issues as separate issues... that straights obviously do also....
You can fully accept people's identity without randomly condoning - anyone's - particular actions in any given moment.
Anyone can BE anyone.
But one cannot condone theft, for example, rackets, selfishness, greed, cheating, lieing, self worship, never. ending. bullshit, utter, rampant Hypocrisy, what have you..
...regardless OF identity.
"Straight", "normative" "white" isn't the point really.