NFT: The magnanimous Matt Kutcher...

In comment 14296394 Marty in Albany said:

Quote:

It is not just for carrying the golf bag around the course. It is because the Caddy is familiar with the golfers way of playing. It is only the Caddy who can give the golfer advice about what club to use or any other information about how to play the game. The golfer relies on their caddy,s expertise and the caddy’s knowledge of the way he plays. It appears that this new caddy only carried the bag and that Kutcher thoughtthat he won the tournament on his own without the help of the caddy.

It’s actually even more than that. When you miss the cut caddies typically get zilch outside of a stipend that barely covers travel expenses. That 10% payoff on a win is a reward for all the weeks a caddie carries the player’s bag for peanuts.

This guy was a one off, and was guaranteed a payday higher than what his regular caddy gets on a missed cut week.

In comment 14296426 bw in dc said:

Quote:

It's the classy thing to do.

In class, they teach you to read. More was offered and the CADDY turned it down.

Should have paid him 50K and be thankful for the 80k he saved because his caddy wasn't there. I get there was an agreement, but this is a local mexican caddy that would be lifechanging money. It's a drop in the bucket for Kuch.

In comment 14296460 TyreeHelmet said:

Quote:

Should have paid him 50K and be thankful for the 80k he saved because his caddy wasn't there. I get there was an agreement, but this is a local mexican caddy that would be lifechanging money. It's a drop in the bucket for Kuch.

Kuch's usual caddy isn't used to anything except backdoor top-10s. Kuch is king of the Sunday 65 to vault from 24th to a T-7 finish.

Let's be clear about this, it is not that Kuchar should have tipped the Caddy more, it is that he could have.

I would not label Kuchar a jerk for his actions, however, I certainly will not view him as a great guy going forward either.

With regards to the 15K- I'm not 100% sure, but I think that was offered as something of an apology after the Caddy's story made it into the press.


PS: Who the hell is Matt Kutcher?

100% accurate on tour pros in general. You would have to sort through at least 100 of them to find a decent human being.

Kutcher did not have an agreement if he won because he hardly ever wins. He had an agreement if he finished top 10. He didn't owe a local caddie 10%. But he did owe him a hell of a lot more than 5K about 10 times that would have been the right thing to do. Half of what he would have paid his regular caddie. By the way the caddie never complained. The reason it went public was other pros. You have to be really off the grid to offend other golf pros. When Mark Steinberg thinks you stiffed a guy you must have really stiffed a guy.

What did they agree to prior to the match? From what i read it was 4k. Kutcher added 1k

probably too low but thats what was agreed to.

What if missed the cut?

In comment 14296362 Boy Cord said:

Quote:

In comment 14296280 kennyd said: Quote: he is a really well liked, nice guy but boy do the optics on this look bad. He's got to go into his pocketand make this right. Winning $1.3 and giving your caddy $5k is a REALLY bad look Really well liked by whom? The other arrogant, entitled douchebags that make up the PGA Tour? I’ll take this with a grain of salt.

Nice take. Everyone on the PGA Tour is an arrogant, entitled douchebag. Because you know them all, you’re comfortable painting them all with your giant broad brush

The caddie turned down a bonus 15K.

As mentioned the guy was a fill-in and probably couldn't help Kutcher the way a caddie normally does. If he's only carrying the bag, that's not worth 10%.

In comment 14296556 widmerseyebrow said:

Quote:

The caddie turned down a bonus 15K. As mentioned the guy was a fill-in and probably couldn't help Kutcher the way a caddie normally does. If he's only carrying the bag, that's not worth 10%.

Kuchar, whatever

He could have given more if he wanted to and that would have been a (noticed I said "a" not "the") nice thing to do. But, at the same time, he fulfilled his end of the deal and really should not be shamed into giving more. I have no idea what Kuchar's expenses are in life and I am not going to criticize someone who had honored his word and even went above it, albeit only a small amount above it. I know Kuchar is a rich golfer who probably makes more than 5 million a year, but 50K is also a lot of money and for a guy who had not won in four years its not like he is going to have an endless supply of money for the rest of his life.

everyone glossing over this??

It should basically end the discussion:

Quote:

In class, they teach you to read. More was offered and the CADDY turned it down.

He reportedly offered the caddy more and he didn't take it.

The reason regular caddies get tipped so well is because they know the golfer and have a ton of insight to help him work the course based on the knowledge the caddy possesses of the course and the golfer. It's my understanding this guy didn't do too much more then hold his bag. I'm sure he had some suggestions but not in depth to level of his normal caddy. At least this is what was reported early on.

Not too mention if they had an agreement what does it matter?

that was more than was agreed to, and the Caddy turned it down. Now the guy is a dick for not offering more money after the $15K was turned down?

If the Caddy turns down the $50K, how high does he need to keep upping the offer before he is no longer a dick? $80K? $130K? 50-50 split of the winnings?

Saw him get a hole-in-one, take the ball out of the cup, and
give it to a youngster who was applauding. Nice move.
Now this embarrassment.
It's all about money. He's a cheap-skate.
Caddy should have gotten $50,000. in my opinion.
The $ would have changed his life. Kuchar saving $45,000 will certainly not change Matt's life.
Bottom line.....real cheap move.

In comment 14296581 FatMan in Charlotte said:

Quote:

everyone glossing over this?? It should basically end the discussion: Quote: In class, they teach you to read. More was offered and the CADDY turned it down. He reportedly offered the caddy more and he didn't take it.

It was $15K after the Ortiz made some noise.

And he shouldn't take it. In essence, Kuchar is savings $130K because his regular caddie wasn't available. So that money would have been paid out. So if Kuchr pays the guy $50K, he's still up $80K more...

In comment 14296658 bw in dc said:

Quote:

It was $15K after the Ortiz made some noise. And he shouldn't take it. In essence, Kuchar is savings $130K because his regular caddie wasn't available. So that money would have been paid out. So if Kuchr pays the guy $50K, he's still up $80K more...

And if his regular caddie had been available and Kuchar has missed the cut, he would have been paid LESS than what this guy was getting. Plus he would have had to fly to Mexico and pay for a hotel on his own dime.

Regular caddies get the big win bonus as a reward for the low pay they get in the bad weeks.

In comment 14296658 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 14296581 FatMan in Charlotte said: Quote: everyone glossing over this?? It should basically end the discussion: Quote: In class, they teach you to read. More was offered and the CADDY turned it down. He reportedly offered the caddy more and he didn't take it. It was $15K after the Ortiz made some noise. And he shouldn't take it. In essence, Kuchar is savings $130K because his regular caddie wasn't available. So that money would have been paid out. So if Kuchr pays the guy $50K, he's still up $80K more...

Absolutely, pay the man you cheap prick, he couldn't have done too bad a job if you won the freakin tournament, 50K is still saving quite a bit and everybody would have been happy.

In comment 14296678 Jim in Fairfax said:

Quote:

And if his regular caddie had been available and Kuchar has missed the cut, he would have been paid LESS than what this guy was getting. Plus he would have had to fly to Mexico and pay for a hotel on his own dime. Regular caddies get the big win bonus as a reward for the low pay they get in the bad weeks.

I don't know the arrangement Kuch has with regular caddie. So I really can't comment if it's standard. I know Tiger used to pay Williams a flat salary and some kind of bonus structure.

I would guess a caddie go write off the travel as a business expense...?

in these posts. The caddy works at the resort who agreed to a deal (i.e. contract) with Kuchar before the event for one weeks worth of work. The terms were clear. It's only after the fact that all the liberals are telling Kuchar how he should pay the man.

And for those that don't know, "typical" caddy agreements are structured/agreed to under the context of a full season. Sure there are exceptions, but to say this caddy deserved to get the "typical" caddy agreement for one weeks worth of work is ridiculous. Kuchar even offered more money and was turned down. Next time the caddy should negotiate a better deal on the front end, not expect charity in hindsight.

In comment 14296696 Bernie said:

Quote:

in these posts. The caddy works at the resort who agreed to a deal (i.e. contract) with Kuchar before the event for one weeks worth of work. The terms were clear. It's only after the fact that all the liberals are telling Kuchar how he should pay the man. And for those that don't know, "typical" caddy agreements are structured/agreed to under the context of a full season. Sure there are exceptions, but to say this caddy deserved to get the "typical" caddy agreement for one weeks worth of work is ridiculous. Kuchar even offered more money and was turned down. Next time the caddy should negotiate a better deal on the front end, not expect charity in hindsight.

I'm not liberal - far, far from it - and I'm not advocating that Ortiz gets the full 10%. Give him 5%. And it was a verbal agreement, not some intricate contract hammered out by attorneys.

Again, Kuchar is coming out an additional $130K because his regular caddie wasn't available. So if Kuch gives him $50K, Kuch is still +$80K.

Look, this is all subjective. I would have "ripped" up that verbal agreement and paid Ortiz much more than the $5K. There was certainly money to spare...

in the deal push their way into it. Kuchar did nothing wrong here. All those people that put it in Ortiz’s head that he wasn’t compensated enough, including the know-it-all dooshers in this thread that are calling out Kuchar need to get a life.

Oh, and carrying a golf bag for a PGA Pro during a tournament and caddying for a PGA Pro are 2 different things and should be compensated as such. Just because you carry a bag doesn’t make you a caddy.

Ortiz turned down more money. End of story.

Response? He comes off as such an entitled asshole. Good lord.

Kooch did anything wrong as a human being, I don't know what to tell you. He just cracked the top 10 of all time PGA tour earnings, he has more money than god...his great grandkids will never have to work.

I'll be more interested to see if the Kooooooch crowd becomes a little quieter now that he stiffed the caddie. Perception is everything.

Kooch should have paid the guy 50Kish, and the guy should have been happy with 5 + 15. Having said that, I understand the caddy - being local - was very helpful reading greens where tournaments are won and lost.

Bottom line, the PR hit Kooch takes is much worse than any $$$ he would have paid out.

In comment 14296362 Boy Cord said:

Quote:

In comment 14296280 kennyd said: Quote: he is a really well liked, nice guy but boy do the optics on this look bad. He's got to go into his pocketand make this right. Winning $1.3 and giving your caddy $5k is a REALLY bad look Really well liked by whom? The other arrogant, entitled douchebags that make up the PGA Tour? I’ll take this with a grain of salt.

He’s well liked by pretty much every fan of golf, especially in the US. But, go on, continue your uninformed rant...

In comment 14296852 GiantGolfer said:

Quote:

Really well liked by whom? The other arrogant, entitled douchebags that make up the PGA Tour? I’ll take this with a grain of salt. He’s well liked by pretty much every fan of golf, especially in the US. But, go on, continue your uninformed rant...

You mean people who have never met him? Why does that matter?

The simple truth is that Kuchar damn well knows what caddies cost. He won a tournament with this guy on his bag, and for a mere 5% of his winnings (half of the usual rate) he could have avoided this entire thing. I'll bet if he gave the guy $25,000 right away (less than 2%) this would be a complete non-issue.

a 10% share of a winner’s purse? Just carry the bag for four days and give an occasional opinion on how a putt breaks?
Nope. He’s with his employer all year. He’s his confidante, friend, psychologist, cheerleader. He knows his strengths, weaknesses, personality, and temperament.

He walks and charts the whole course, plans strategy, helps club the shots when asked, reads the putts and offers advice when asked. So the tour caddie shares in the victory when his boss wins, because it’s a collaborative effort. The big payoff for a win makes up for the lean times when the boss isn’t winning. That’s why the tour caddie makes the percentage he does.

Do you think the local guy did all of that? Do you really think he was working strategy and clubbing a tour pro? Maybe confirm what Kuchar saw here and there, and that’s probably about it. If that’s all it took, then all of these tour pros would just hire local caddies at every venue and save a bunch of money. In my opinion, the guy did the same job he’d make $400 for over four days, and got paid $5,000, which was more than he agreed to.
Still think Kuchar’s comments were tone deaf, but the caddie agreed to a few and got tipped on top of it.

In comment 14296965 Crispino said:

Quote:

a 10% share of a winner’s purse? Just carry the bag for four days and give an occasional opinion on how a putt breaks? Nope. He’s with his employer all year. He’s his confidante, friend, psychologist, cheerleader. He knows his strengths, weaknesses, personality, and temperament. He walks and charts the whole course, plans strategy, helps club the shots when asked, reads the putts and offers advice when asked. So the tour caddie shares in the victory when his boss wins, because it’s a collaborative effort. The big payoff for a win makes up for the lean times when the boss isn’t winning. That’s why the tour caddie makes the percentage he does. Do you think the local guy did all of that? Do you really think he was working strategy and clubbing a tour pro? Maybe confirm what Kuchar saw here and there, and that’s probably about it. If that’s all it took, then all of these tour pros would just hire local caddies at every venue and save a bunch of money. In my opinion, the guy did the same job he’d make $400 for over four days, and got paid $5,000, which was more than he agreed to. Still think Kuchar’s comments were tone deaf, but the caddie agreed to a few and got tipped on top of it.

We agree on something!!

+1

😀

In comment 14296965 Crispino said:

Quote:

a 10% share of a winner’s purse? Just carry the bag for four days and give an occasional opinion on how a putt breaks? Nope. He’s with his employer all year. He’s his confidante, friend, psychologist, cheerleader. He knows his strengths, weaknesses, personality, and temperament. He walks and charts the whole course, plans strategy, helps club the shots when asked, reads the putts and offers advice when asked. So the tour caddie shares in the victory when his boss wins, because it’s a collaborative effort. The big payoff for a win makes up for the lean times when the boss isn’t winning. That’s why the tour caddie makes the percentage he does. Do you think the local guy did all of that? Do you really think he was working strategy and clubbing a tour pro? Maybe confirm what Kuchar saw here and there, and that’s probably about it. If that’s all it took, then all of these tour pros would just hire local caddies at every venue and save a bunch of money. In my opinion, the guy did the same job he’d make $400 for over four days, and got paid $5,000, which was more than he agreed to. Still think Kuchar’s comments were tone deaf, but the caddie agreed to a few and got tipped on top of it.

Kuchar has 9 PGA Tour wins since become a full time player on tour 17 years ago. He hadn't won in 4 years until Mayakoba.

Do I think the caddy had a detailed yardage book and local knowledge on the course? Hell yeah I do. Certainly more than Kuchar would have since he hadn't played there in four years.

Kuchar had an opportunity to either be decent or be cheap and it's obvious which one he chose.

and then hired 2 "fellas" for 10K each from the syndicate to make Kuchar "an offer he couldn't refuse" for 50k more.

Problem solved.

during an interview with golf.com on Wednesday night about the controversy and Ortiz, the caddie.

“For a guy who makes $200 a day, a $5,000 week is a really big week,” he said.

As expected, the Twitter mob have seized on this in a variety of ways...

that he didn't think there was a snowball's chance in hell that Kuchar would get a top 10 finish when he made an agreement beforehand to take a small flat fee to fill in? If the final payment is so distasteful to him why did he agree to caddie for him in the first place?

Just because you can get away with underpaying someone doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Custom is 10%. Kuch has made more than 43 million in his career, on winnings alone. Pay the 130.

In comment 14297357 widmerseyebrow said:

Quote:

that he didn't think there was a snowball's chance in hell that Kuchar would get a top 10 finish when he made an agreement beforehand to take a small flat fee to fill in? If the final payment is so distasteful to him why did he agree to caddie for him in the first place?

Who cares what the Ortiz was thinking prior to tee off. It was a verbal agreement.

And who cares what the verbal agreement was after Kuchar wins the tournament for $1.3M. At that point, step-up, and pay the guy around half the going rate of 10%. Give Ortiz $50K. It's really the kind thing to do.

Like I have mentioned before, without his regular caddie, Kuchar is up an additional $130K. So if he pays Ortiz $50K, Kuchar is still up $80K...

In comment 14297431 TDMaker85 said:

Quote:

Just because you can get away with underpaying someone doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Custom is 10%. Kuch has made more than 43 million in his career, on winnings alone. Pay the 130.

But he didn't underpay, he paid what they agreed.

Should wealthy people also pay more for groceries just because they can afford to?

In comment 14297457 Giants in 07 said:

Quote:

In comment 14297431 TDMaker85 said: Quote: Just because you can get away with underpaying someone doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Custom is 10%. Kuch has made more than 43 million in his career, on winnings alone. Pay the 130. But he didn't underpay, he paid what they agreed. Should wealthy people also pay more for groceries just because they can afford to?

Sweet fuck what a terrible analogy.

In comment 14297457 Giants in 07 said:

Quote:

In comment 14297431 TDMaker85 said: Quote: Just because you can get away with underpaying someone doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Custom is 10%. Kuch has made more than 43 million in his career, on winnings alone. Pay the 130. But he didn't underpay, he paid what they agreed. Should wealthy people also pay more for groceries just because they can afford to?

I bet you don't tip when you go out, either.

In comment 14297457 Giants in 07 said:

Quote:

In comment 14297431 TDMaker85 said: Quote: Just because you can get away with underpaying someone doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. Custom is 10%. Kuch has made more than 43 million in his career, on winnings alone. Pay the 130. But he didn't underpay, he paid what they agreed. Should wealthy people also pay more for groceries just because they can afford to?

Silly example.

This is simply about kindness. If you think $5K is the right thing to pay after $1.3M in winninhs, then you are as tone-deaf at Kuchar.

In comment 14297469 bw in dc said:

Quote:

Silly example. This is simply about kindness. If you think $5K is the right thing to pay after $1.3M in winninhs, then you are as tone-deaf at Kuchar.

100%

re-read his comments, and is paying the caddie the full standard rate now.

One of the few times I think social media - and I largely deplore social media - got something right.

Although it was disappointing when a writer for the WaPo - I think she reports on women's issues? - flat-out accused Kucher of being a racist.

Just completely unnecessary tactics by the Internet Mob...

Plain and simple.

Not for a one time fill in. And this is further proof no one reads past the headline because Kuchar offered 20k total. Extortion is right. Social media mob wins again.

Extortion or doing the right thing? The guy helped him win 1.3 million dollars and he gave him 5K. I don't care what the initial agreement was, it's called being a decent human being (which he apparently realized with his statement).

What a bunch of heartless, miserable, greedy people there are here. Matt Kucher has 50k in change in his couch and he probably just changed a families life. Jesus, we live in a miserable world.

The same social media who extorted more money from Kuchar.

Also, once again, anyone who thinks being a resort caddie and a being a professional caddie are the same thing have no idea.

The world realized that. After it came to light and the story was revealed, Kuchar and his people also realized not only how cheap it was, but the damage to his otherwise super reputation would follow him for the remainder of his career.
Agreed that 10% would be over-payment - - - this is not a tour caddy, but he sure as hell knew that course! So Matt winds up giving him less than 5% at $50,000....seems like a win-win now.
Calling this extortion is joke. What it actually is "a kick save and a beauty" by Kuchar for his golden reputation.
And forget social media for a moment - - - - you think maybe the catcalls and boos at Riviera made Matt realize he'd rather be cheered by 100% of the fans?

in the other person's shoes and his initial failure to do so. Also Nick Faldo's comments about the ability to change someone's life.

BTW, Kutcher hadn't offered the extra $15,000, his agent had after this started to blow up and cause bad publicity for his client.

But good on Kutcher, who always seemed to be a nice guy.

The 'cheap' rep is still going to stick.