NFT: Mets-DeGrom. Mike was hammering him pretty good

Mike was right.

and for him, unfortunate. I get it, and nine times out of ten I agree with Mike.

I just think this situation is so fucked up because of the Mets that deGrom is now looking across the table at a guy who 3-4 months ago was on his "side" in this discussion. Can you imagine how pissed off you'd be if you were deGrom?

is the problem. The current GM came out in July (while serving as DeGrom's agent) and hammered the Mets for not giving him an extension so....

until he actually does self impose a usage limit on himself. If that happens, I'll start going nuts here.

What's more likely going on is that DeGrom and his agent realize that their are lacking leverage here. He's still under Mets control for 2 more years, and he's not going to be at a great age when he hits UFA. The UFA market looks increasingly dicey for older pitchers, and that's even assuming he gets through 2 more years healthy.

This is DeGrom's camp's way to try and create a little bit of leverage and pressure on the Mets to come to the table and do a deal. I think we'll see a deal done before the start of the season.

More interesting will be what the team does with Wheeler if he picks up where he left off last year. There's not exactly a lot of money coming off the books after 2019.

I didn't think even the Mets had it in them to screw deGrom after 2015 and last year but here we are again wondering WTF?

In comment 14297325 Chris684 said:

Quote:

I didn't think even the Mets had it in them to screw deGrom after 2015 and last year but here we are again wondering WTF?

Wrong story you want over camp when vibes are mostly positive.

during the season. Get it done now or wait until the off season. As usual, Francesca has the exact wrong take.

This is a big story about nothing

they play. Especially if its self serving. To me that screams the team as the right to claw back the pay then. It would be akin to barkley saying I am only going to have 15 carries a game next year.

But he was right. Wrong for Degrom to imply or insinuate he may have to take it easy if his agents say so. He got a massive raise and its not the Mets fault the CBA and his age play against him.

In comment 14297380 bhill410 said:

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they play. Especially if its self serving. To me that screams the team as the right to claw back the pay then. It would be akin to barkley saying I am only going to have 15 carries a game next year.

Ahhhh, someone gets it. Right to the heart of the issue here...

When everyone panicked about DeGroms back. And he went out and won the CY

read, Kelleher sounds particularly interesting
Link - ( New Window )

on the uniqueness of this situation.

Woe is me for an MLB player I know, but to date he's earned about $30M (after the 17M from this year). Nowhere near chump change of course, but he still hasn't had his chance to cash in as an elite starting pitcher. He'll be hitting UFA for the first time at 32, turning 33, with TJS in his past.

Yes, it's wrong to put out there that you may put a self-imposed innings limit, but he literally just watched the backfire of this to a teammate not 3 years ago. Remember the mega-deal Matt Harvey was going to get, the most pursued SP FA when he finally hit the market. Got hit with bad luck, and the injury bug, and now he's settling for one year deals in Cincy, and he's still only 29 years old. Definitely can still recover, but much different at DeGrom's age IMO.

If something happens and he blows out his elbow, poof, he would have never had the opportunity for that one mega deal, to set himself and his family up for generations. What team would commit a mega deal to a 33 year old SP like that?

It's such a unique and interesting case.

In comment 14297432 ManningLobsItBurressAlone said:

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on the uniqueness of this situation. Woe is me for an MLB player I know, but to date he's earned about $30M (after the 17M from this year). Nowhere near chump change of course, but he still hasn't had his chance to cash in as an elite starting pitcher. He'll be hitting UFA for the first time at 32, turning 33, with TJS in his past. Yes, it's wrong to put out there that you may put a self-imposed innings limit, but he literally just watched the backfire of this to a teammate not 3 years ago. Remember the mega-deal Matt Harvey was going to get, the most pursued SP FA when he finally hit the market. Got hit with bad luck, and the injury bug, and now he's settling for one year deals in Cincy, and he's still only 29 years old. Definitely can still recover, but much different at DeGrom's age IMO. If something happens and he blows out his elbow, poof, he would have never had the opportunity for that one mega deal, to set himself and his family up for generations. What team would commit a mega deal to a 33 year old SP like that? It's such a unique and interesting case.

Well said which is why it's hard to criticize deGrom if he does in fact decide to limit his innings.

In comment 14297368 Section331 said:

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during the season. Get it done now or wait until the off season. As usual, Francesca has the exact wrong take.

Oh stop with this. It's clearly a threat to try and gain some sort of leverage by imposing a hypothetical deadline.

If the Mets offer deGrom something insane during the middle of the season, you're telling me he's going to completely ignore the offer because he's focused solely on pitching this season?! It's like a dealership with "no haggle" pricing...if I offer them $100 less than the advertised price on that BMW, does "no haggle" pricing still apply?!

The agent is doing most of this work anyways.

the Mets current GM flat out said in July he deserved an extension or to be traded to a team that would. You can't dissect this story without acknowledging this fact.

In comment 14297444 Jay on the Island said:

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Well said which is why it's hard to criticize deGrom if he does in fact decide to limit his innings.

But the issue here is age, not pitch count. Given his age, his arm has a relatively low number of pitches on it. Even if he maintains that ratio, he's still going to be an aging pitcher when he hits FA. It sucks for him, but I don't know why the Mets should be forced to overpay due to his age. If he was 3 years younger, this wouldn't even be an issue.

He kind of falls into Le'veon Bell territory; he's a victim of the league's pay structure for newer players.

That's only part of the issue.

How does it work that an agent gets to become a GM and ultimately sit on both sides of the negotiating table for a team's star player.

This is bizarro world and only something the Mets could pull off.

deGrom has every right to be furious about this because of that fact alone.

In comment 14297448 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

the Mets current GM flat out said in July he deserved an extension or to be traded to a team that would. You can't dissect this story without acknowledging this fact.

but he was an agent at the time, and the current GM at the time disagreed.

I don't find that fact to be terribly relevant, since BVW as an agent has a role and as a GM has a different role.

because he lobbied for something as an agent, doesn't mean that now that he's the GM he also has to advocate for it.

I do think it probably gets done, but the Mets owe deGrom nothing.

He's not even a FA until 2021.

In comment 14297475 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

In comment 14297448 DanMetroMan said: Quote: the Mets current GM flat out said in July he deserved an extension or to be traded to a team that would. You can't dissect this story without acknowledging this fact. but he was an agent at the time, and the current GM at the time disagreed. I don't find that fact to be terribly relevant, since BVW as an agent has a role and as a GM has a different role. because he lobbied for something as an agent, doesn't mean that now that he's the GM he also has to advocate for it. I do think it probably gets done, but the Mets owe deGrom nothing. He's not even a FA until 2021.

1. It's absolutely relevant. He's been told XYZ about his value and what he's worth and now by the SAME person he's being told otherwise.

2.Ricco and Jeff met with DeGrom in December and told him an offer was forthcoming. Now Brodie is saying they are still evaluating. It takes this long to "evaluate" what a fair offer is?

In comment 14297461 Chris684 said:

Quote:

That's only part of the issue. How does it work that an agent gets to become a GM and ultimately sit on both sides of the negotiating table for a team's star player. This is bizarro world and only something the Mets could pull off. deGrom has every right to be furious about this because of that fact alone.

But what does that matter to the situation? How differently would a non-agent GM handle this?
I don't see how BVW is an issue here. It's deGrom's late start as a pitcher that's the issue.

then why sit down and tell him an offer is coming?

2 months ago

"We'd like to see him stay here long-term," Wilpon said during an appearance with Mike Francesa on WFAN. "I'm sure there will be an offer. How long-term that is, that's up to us to figure out."

November 8th-
"I've remained steadfast there that I think he's tremendous and would love to try to keep him if it's possible," Van Wagenen said. "We'll explore that in the coming weeks."



So I find it disingenuous to say the Mets "owe him nothing"... THEY are on record saying they planned on doing X and haven't. November 8th is "many" weeks ago.

this...

You have a MONSTER year in your role (whatever you do) your boss says "We will be making him a new offer, he's great at his job in the next few weeks we will be making an offer" and then 13 weeks pass with no offer. Who wouldn't be frustrated?

In comment 14297490 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

1. It's absolutely relevant. He's been told XYZ about his value and what he's worth and now by the SAME person he's being told otherwise.

Yes, agents can be self-serving scumbags. I think almost everyone realizes this.

It's no different than a salesman who only has one goal. Once they change positions, that doesn't mean they continue to be a salesman.

In comment 14297498 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

then why sit down and tell him an offer is coming? 2 months ago "We'd like to see him stay here long-term," Wilpon said during an appearance with Mike Francesa on WFAN. "I'm sure there will be an offer. How long-term that is, that's up to us to figure out." November 8th- "I've remained steadfast there that I think he's tremendous and would love to try to keep him if it's possible," Van Wagenen said. "We'll explore that in the coming weeks." So I find it disingenuous to say the Mets "owe him nothing"... THEY are on record saying they planned on doing X and haven't. November 8th is "many" weeks ago.

My guess is it's Wilpon(s), not BVW, same reason Machado isn't a Met.

At some level these guys (BVW, Alderson, etc.) HAVE to say what they say publicly to keep their jobs, and I have zero proof beyond my opinion, but I believe Wilpon(s) are to blame for things like a deGrom extension and no Machado/Harper more than BVW or whoever the GM is), my point was simply on his role change, which in this situation is very rare and his opposite goals.

it's always about the Wilpons and always will be. This is why even though he's a scumbag loser I'd still prefer Dolan owning the Mets than the Wilpons. This shouldn't be the story right now. Your best player unhappy shouldn't be what we are talking about right now.

that he's not sure if he's even 50% through with his rehab yet. Said that he thinks he'll return this year, but wants to be 100% when he returns like he was in 2015.

and it's very unique.

Think of it in more simpler terms.

If you are negotiating to buy a car, you might say I'm only paying x for that car, that's all it's worth.

Now, when you sell that car, are you expected to only sell it for the price you paid for it because you are on record for saying that's what it's worth?

of course not. your role has changed and your goals are different and diametrically opposed.

As for Jeff and Ricco, I believe that's same old Wilpons.

And I do believe as has been speculated over the past few days/weeks/months as the free agent market has developed and the mega deals have not materialized as expected, the Mets are waiting it out to see where those contracts come in.

nothing worse than being the last guy to pay premium price for something that goes on sale.

not suggesting the Mets should go cheap on deGrom, but if Machado/Harper get contracts int he $25 range for 7 or 8 years, that impacts what the Mets would/should be expected to pay deGrom.

When people were talking 400M for those guy it inflated deGrom's value too (IMO).

to keep banging the Buchholz (or Ervin Santana) drum until one of them is signed. Walker Lockett may or may not be a big league talent but he's 25 years old and the Padres previously DFA'ed him before trading him to the Indians. Really ugly numbers the past 2 seasons. Lets pray one of Kay or Peterson come quickly but with Matz, Vargas and not exactly durable Thor/Wheeler it would REALLY behoove a wannabe contender to add another "legit" arm.

In comment 14297518 Metnut said:

Quote:

that he's not sure if he's even 50% through with his rehab yet. Said that he thinks he'll return this year, but wants to be 100% when he returns like he was in 2015.

LOL but he'll be back in May or June. That went down the toilet quickly.

In comment 14297518 Metnut said:

Quote:

that he's not sure if he's even 50% through with his rehab yet. Said that he thinks he'll return this year, but wants to be 100% when he returns like he was in 2015.

This is NOT a shot at anyone but the idea he was secretly closer than expected was silliness. It's the exact opposite approach a team trying to sell tickets would take.

Matt Ehalt
@MattEhalt
�
1m
Most don't expect Yoenis back before July. All-Star break seems to be the optimistic projection.

In comment 14297515 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

it's always about the Wilpons and always will be. This is why even though he's a scumbag loser I'd still prefer Dolan owning the Mets than the Wilpons. This shouldn't be the story right now. Your best player unhappy shouldn't be what we are talking about right now.

Agree 100% about it always being about the Wilpons, though I still don't feel like deGrom is owed a LT extension two seasons before he's an eligible free agent (unless he makes it team friendly).

But I would certainly try and work something out and I think whoever is the GM is at the whim of the Wilpons.

sign a 6+ year deal at some astronomical number. I don't think it would be unreasonable to accept a 3 year deal now for more money. It will offer him some level of protection and still allow him the ability to make more money if he can stay healthy and productive during the contract.

Nothing exemplified this better than Harper and Machado who are both unsigned. MLB teams don't want to dedicate 5+ years to players any longer. The Mets signed Cespedes for less years-more money and they still got fucking burned!

Someone get the man a time machine lol

In comment 14297523 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

to keep banging the Buchholz (or Ervin Santana) drum until one of them is signed. Walker Lockett may or may not be a big league talent but he's 25 years old and the Padres previously DFA'ed him before trading him to the Indians. Really ugly numbers the past 2 seasons. Lets pray one of Kay or Peterson come quickly but with Matz, Vargas and not exactly durable Thor/Wheeler it would REALLY behoove a wannabe contender to add another "legit" arm.

Buchholz is a perfect candidate for the Mets to pursue.

also won't cost much at all. In fact, toss in an inflated 2nd year option. He's "that good" and that valuable to the 2019 team then you won't regret it.

Then finalize JDG

Tweeted the Mets were still in on Harper today. He then misspelled Mets to Nets, and deleted the tweet. He�s now responding to it.

In comment 14297596 Shecky said:

Quote:

Then finalize JDG

What kind of deal would you see Thor signing 3 years from free agency? Something like the one Severino signed with buying out one FA year?

In comment 14297622 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

Tweeted the Mets were still in on Harper today. He then misspelled Mets to Nets, and deleted the tweet. He�s now responding to it.

Did he mean Nats?

Probably nothing though.

cited a twitter feed with 1,700 followers as backup for his claim lol a fake insider account.

"MLB INSIDER
@MLBINSIDER_
�
20h
#Developing
Source: The #Mets are much more involved in the Bryce Harper sweepstakes then previously known. They attempted to remain a mystery team so as not to ignite a bidding war with the #Phillies, #Nats. I can now confirm they're heavily involved in discussions with Harper."

Sounds SO legit lol


MLB INSIDER
@MLBINSIDER_
�
21h
Source: With Bryce Harper still unsigned, 2 new teams have reached out to Scott Boras to see how much his price has dropped. The #Cubs and #Mets have both had discussions with Boras about Harper. Both teams are being very secretive about it, but you can't hide from the Insider.

"You can't hide from the Insider"

Seems legit

In comment 14297646 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

"MLB INSIDER @MLBINSIDER_ � 20h #Developing Source: The #Mets are much more involved in the Bryce Harper sweepstakes then previously known. They attempted to remain a mystery team so as not to ignite a bidding war with the #Phillies, #Nats. I can now confirm they're heavily involved in discussions with Harper." Sounds SO legit lol MLB INSIDER @MLBINSIDER_ � 21h Source: With Bryce Harper still unsigned, 2 new teams have reached out to Scott Boras to see how much his price has dropped. The #Cubs and #Mets have both had discussions with Boras about Harper. Both teams are being very secretive about it, but you can't hide from the Insider.

LOL, as if Boras would keep it a secret too?

MLB INSIDER
@MLBINSIDER_
�
Feb 9
Before I get to some updates on Bryce Harper and Manny Machado (sorry for the tease!), I have to tell you that the popularity of this Twitter account in such short time (only started Insider tweets a few months ago) is being called UNPRECEDENTED by industry insiders. Thank you!!


He has 600 followers more than I do lol and I tweet memes lol

Freddy Coupons or Brody?

Both Martini and Canha would be interesting OF targets for @mets. Martini has hit at every level and Sandy IS in Oakland...

I don't understand the backlash to Degrom. The man deserves to get paid and is being betrayed by his former agent and by the entire Mets organization.

As for the innings limit, what happens when he snaps his elbow this season or next? Will the Wilpons cover the loss income on his next deal? No chance.

The guy's career earnings are 13 million. After taxes/ fees, that isn't life changing money for what hes accomplished for the Mets.

The Mets could do right for a great player and great guy they have. Instead they are being cheap. Pathetic ownership that shouldn't own a team.

Jd davis. Wow
Alonso, looks like in goodhape, but itlicked why everyone bashes his d. He reminds me of the awkward white guy in the basketball court who makes just enough plays. Looks awkward, doesn�t belong, but gets the job done. Especially when watching the Mi, what a difference in �athleticism� lol. He looks like an offensive lineman.
Doesn�t help that Dom looked nice and smooth next to him.
LOVE Diaz�s glove. He�s already a Met bleeding blue
Did I mention Davis?
Speaking of D. McNeilreally sunrises me in the OF. For a defensively challenged player, he just might be able to play out there. Big difference come game time though. it better than I expected.
The pitching, oh man, THE PITCHING
Frazier looks like a 3b version of Alonso...
I have to mention Dav... I�ll stop
A lot of optimism. Relishing the underdog from top to bottom.
For a team smushed together in a couple of months, something is very different, and in a good way. Lot of comradery. Like they seem to be enjoying meeting each other or something. Gives the vibe of first week in the dorms in college.
I think they�ll be a very positive buzz from SWR this spring, if the writers make it to the back fields when everyone gets here.
I have to admit, in just Ts, there�s a lot of faces who I have no clue who they are lol.
SIGN THOR!!!!!!!
INDUCT JD

In comment 14297814 Shecky said:

Quote:

Jd davis. Wow Alonso, looks like in goodhape, but itlicked why everyone bashes his d. He reminds me of the awkward white guy in the basketball court who makes just enough plays. Looks awkward, doesn�t belong, but gets the job done. Especially when watching the Mi, what a difference in �athleticism� lol. He looks like an offensive lineman. Doesn�t help that Dom looked nice and smooth next to him. LOVE Diaz�s glove. He�s already a Met bleeding blue Did I mention Davis? Speaking of D. McNeilreally sunrises me in the OF. For a defensively challenged player, he just might be able to play out there. Big difference come game time though. it better than I expected. The pitching, oh man, THE PITCHING Frazier looks like a 3b version of Alonso... I have to mention Dav... I�ll stop A lot of optimism. Relishing the underdog from top to bottom. For a team smushed together in a couple of months, something is very different, and in a good way. Lot of comradery. Like they seem to be enjoying meeting each other or something. Gives the vibe of first week in the dorms in college. I think they�ll be a very positive buzz from SWR this spring, if the writers make it to the back fields when everyone gets here. I have to admit, in just Ts, there�s a lot of faces who I have no clue who they are lol. SIGN THOR!!!!!!! INDUCT JD

I'm very intrigued by Davis and love taking a chance on a guy like him. I liked the guys they gave up but I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think he's got even up odds at being a similar bat to Alonso, and some areas where he's even more interesting (positional versatility especially). The competition between him, Dom, and Alonso is probably going to be the most interesting thing to follow in ST.

Of guys I annoy you with...

period. I look at the average salaries in the NBA and I can't believe how underpaid MLB players are. DeGrom could go down as the best Mets pitcher of all time and he deserves to be paid like it while he is in the prime of his career.

In comment 14297844 RasputinPrime said:

Quote:

period. I look at the average salaries in the NBA and I can't believe how underpaid MLB players are. DeGrom could go down as the best Mets pitcher of all time and he deserves to be paid like it while he is in the prime of his career.

If you think baseball players are underpaid dont look at NHL salaries

In comment 14297844 RasputinPrime said:

Quote:

period. I look at the average salaries in the NBA and I can't believe how underpaid MLB players are. DeGrom could go down as the best Mets pitcher of all time and he deserves to be paid like it while he is in the prime of his career.

41

.
Diaz - ( New Window )

shek

In comment 14298007 CMicks3110 said:

Quote:

shek

Lol, bad omen then

what did you see fom JD Davis, more specifics, you seemed very high on him

In comment 14298022 CMicks3110 said:

Quote:

what did you see fom JD Davis, more specifics, you seemed very high on him

Stood out since last spring. He�s just the kind of player that grows on me. Cares, works hard, grinder. Don�t know if he will ever make it or not, but ball really jumps off his bat like few else in the org.
I assume onceone writer gets a hold of someone else excited about him, he will get a lot of early buzz. Again, don�t �now if he will make it or not, but a guy I like and rooting for.

Extremely impressive as well. I cou,d see him quickly being the leader of the pen, personality wise. And I think Familia would be more than happy with that.

In comment 14297844 RasputinPrime said:

Quote:

period. I look at the average salaries in the NBA and I can't believe how underpaid MLB players are. DeGrom could go down as the best Mets pitcher of all time and he deserves to be paid like it while he is in the prime of his career.

He is getting paid. To the tune of 17 million dollars this year. If he's got a problem with that he needs to take it up with his union. You know, the one who signed the current CBA all the players and owners are operating under.

It's not the Mets fault he hit his prime at the age he is and not two years sooner.

It's a tough break no doubt the way it's worked out for him age wise but if he decides to limiting innings that's a huge mistake IMO. That won't go over well with most fans and it definitely won't be a good look for him when he hits FA in two years IMO.

But fuck the fans.
It won�t go over with his brothers in the locker room, especially if they�re in a pennant race.
Good luck getting paid after a stunt like that, it�s not how it works...

In comment 14298053 Shecky said:

Quote:

But fuck the fans. It won�t go over with his brothers in the locker room, especially if they�re in a pennant race. Good luck getting paid after a stunt like that, it�s not how it works...

Totally agree about how it would go over in the locker room.

My point on the fans is they turned up at the ballpark in bigger numbers last year when he pitched and if he's limiting his innings I'm sure that'll piss people off. Enough to make some of those decide not to go just because he's pitching that night.

The trickle down effect will be felt by everyone and if it hits the owners in their wallet, it could very well backfire on him. I'm not sure how asking for and expecting more money while potentially hurting the team's bottom line is a smart way to go.

Mike Puma
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@NYPost_Mets
15m15 minutes ago
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Tim Tebow has arrived in camp.

David Lennon
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@DPLennon
9m9 minutes ago
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Alonso said he dropped 20 pounds this offseason and has �elevated his game� at first base.

Also has �matured� as a hitter and become more �efficient,� in his words. #mets

Anthony DiComo
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Peter Alonso says he shed 12 pounds this winter in an attempt to impress the Mets. "I wanted to show up looking good" Alonso said, "looking like I was ready to go."

He added: "I want to force someone's hand. I want to come in here and be the best option."

themselves. Look around baseball - despite the drag on top position FA, what are other competitive teams doing to lock down cy young caliber pitchers? The teams that don't have them are paying huge FA freight (Corbin, Darvish, Greinke, Price, Lester) or making massive trades (Sale, Cole, Verlander). The teams that have Kershaw, Carrasco, Sevirino, Nola, Kluber, etc. are jumping at the chance to buy years of control at a reasonable price.

Except TB. And if it gets to that point, the Mets.

They have already strung along (lied to) their self professed "face of the franchise" who they "want to have here for a long time" by not making an offer when they said they would. Either they fix it and get him signed over the next few weeks or they continue to gain ground on Miami as the worst run, most disingenuous ownership group in the sport.

of hearing this "deserve" shit with athletes.

Nothing is deserved. MLB salaries are 100% guaranteed. If deGrom signs a big deal and shits the bed, do the Mets deserve money back?

This is the way the system works. deGrom is cost controlld by the Mets for 2 more seasons and for the benefit of shrewd drafting and quality player development why don't the Mets deserve some cheap, cost controlled years of a Cy Young caliber pitching?

I would try and negotiate an extension with deGrom, but IMO if the Mets do it, then it has to be at least somewhat team friendly for guaranteeing future performance and ensuring deGrom's financial security the rest of his life.

but deserve has nothing to do with it. Not even a little.

and Francesca�s points are completely valid, especially pointing out the other top pitchers and what they got during their arbitration years. DeGrom peaked late, not the Mets problem. He�s making the most money ever during arbitration, he�s doing just fine.

In comment 14298098 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

of hearing this "deserve" shit with athletes. Nothing is deserved. MLB salaries are 100% guaranteed. If deGrom signs a big deal and shits the bed, do the Mets deserve money back? This is the way the system works. deGrom is cost controlld by the Mets for 2 more seasons and for the benefit of shrewd drafting and quality player development why don't the Mets deserve some cheap, cost controlled years of a Cy Young caliber pitching? I would try and negotiate an extension with deGrom, but IMO if the Mets do it, then it has to be at least somewhat team friendly for guaranteeing future performance and ensuring deGrom's financial security the rest of his life. but deserve has nothing to do with it. Not even a little.

That makes total sense, this is how contracts work. Teams get 6 cheap years of control where a player will often play well above their pay grade. They then sign a big extension where there are multiple years where they play well below their pay grade. They want a huge extension to protect themselves in the event of an injury because if they suffer a major career altering they want to get paid 10's of millions of dollar for essentially nothing. How is that fair to the team? Is it fair that the Rangers are paying Prince Fielder all that money for nothing?

Now of course if I was in his shoes I would want the same thing lol

Just as a fan, I'm excited to see some real thump in the Mets lineup when Alonso is miraculously improved defensively sometime after game 12

- Was told Frazier looks "fat, no other way to put it". Kind of disappointing for such a good dude

In comment 14298098 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

of hearing this "deserve" shit with athletes. Nothing is deserved. MLB salaries are 100% guaranteed. If deGrom signs a big deal and shits the bed, do the Mets deserve money back? This is the way the system works. deGrom is cost controlld by the Mets for 2 more seasons and for the benefit of shrewd drafting and quality player development why don't the Mets deserve some cheap, cost controlled years of a Cy Young caliber pitching? I would try and negotiate an extension with deGrom, but IMO if the Mets do it, then it has to be at least somewhat team friendly for guaranteeing future performance and ensuring deGrom's financial security the rest of his life. but deserve has nothing to do with it. Not even a little.

100% agree on it needing to be team friendly - but the "deserve" argument is a red herring right now. What prompted this entire sideshow has nothing to do with what he deserves or doesn't deserve, it's prompted by the Wilpons not doing what they said they would for the umptieth time (aka lie).

If you are the Mets and you want to compete for championships, you offer him a sensible contract to try to do that with him in the next several years or you maximize his trade value to build a championship roster in the future. Case closed. BVW's statement last year was 100% on the money in that regard because there's just as much risk for the Mets letting him play out these 2 years and leaving for nothing (or seeing his price tag increase further) as there is for JDG. This is the time to make a good business decision, while they have leverage with all good options on the table, not risking it later.

If and when the Mets eventually offer him a contract and they can't come to terms bc JDG feels he "deserves" more, the narrative shifts. But right now it's "same old wilpons, same old mets" making promises they don't keep and half-assing what should be a simple process since the player has been very open about willingness. This isn't a Harvey/Boras situation.

(I say all that without having listened to Francesa's comments)

In comment 14298116 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

Just as a fan, I'm excited to see some real thump in the Mets lineup when Alonso is miraculously improved defensively sometime after game 12 - Was told Frazier looks "fat, no other way to put it". Kind of disappointing for such a good dude

HAAAAAAAAAAAA
Strangely enough, BVW either talks a big game or is actually open to bringing him up north to start the season. I don�t agree with it, I find it odd though.

Yeah, I mentioned last night, Frazier looks like a 3b version of Alonso now... it�s been a long offseason.

being signed (and how cheap they are) along with still no signing of Harper/Machado is worst case scenario for DeGrom has well. Can�t blame him for being pissed but the Mets are 100% doing the right thing. Timing is everything and his age plus this new trend to be more careful with long term deals are both hitting at the same time.

I saw some videos of him from the last 2 weeks and he looked virtually the same.

In comment 14298146 CMicks3110 said:

Quote:

I saw some videos of him from the last 2 weeks and he looked virtually the same.

Estimated 15 pounds from someone down there.

ago. Looks the same.
https://www.mlb.com/mets/video/frazier-excited-for-mets-in-19/c-2522532783 - ( New Window )

Put It In The Podcast
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Todd Frazier = Fat
Peter Alonso = Mass

I mean admittedly I don't follow Frazier's routine, I don't care about him but it was noted by many he looks doughy. He may well lose it easily. I have no clue

minor league hitter I've ever seen

What does Peter Alonso think of Vlad Jr. almost definitely starting the year in the minors?

�He deserves to be (in the majors). The kid is a phenom. That�s all I�ve got to say about that.�

honestly, from that video, does the guy look fat? pudgy? if you had not been told that he looked heavy, is that what you would have taken away?

In comment 14298156 CMicks3110 said:

Quote:

honestly, from that video, does the guy look fat? pudgy? if you had not been told that he looked heavy, is that what you would have taken away?

Shecky is down there every year and sees these guys every year. Do you think Shecky generally makes negative comments that are inaccurate? Person who mentioned it to me went through anlist of who looked good who didn't and he said Cespedes looked huge and Frazier put on bad weight. I remember these same kinds of discussions regarding Dom every year "he doesn't look fat!"

In comment 14298098 pjcas18 said:

Quote:

of hearing this "deserve" shit with athletes. Nothing is deserved. MLB salaries are 100% guaranteed. If deGrom signs a big deal and shits the bed, do the Mets deserve money back? This is the way the system works. deGrom is cost controlld by the Mets for 2 more seasons and for the benefit of shrewd drafting and quality player development why don't the Mets deserve some cheap, cost controlled years of a Cy Young caliber pitching? I would try and negotiate an extension with deGrom, but IMO if the Mets do it, then it has to be at least somewhat team friendly for guaranteeing future performance and ensuring deGrom's financial security the rest of his life. but deserve has nothing to do with it. Not even a little.

Awesome post. Agree 100%. I�m sick of hearing about it honestly.

I wouldn�t worry about Frazier. Least of the teams worries
Speaking of Dom, happy to see he is into it. Was very worried about him last year, more mental than physical. And with everyone being handed 1b from Alonso, to Bruce, to Cano, to Frazier, to McNeil and even Davis. Well, I didn�t expect him to take that too well, but the comp has lifted him it seems rather than buried him.

not gonna debate you. But you often take 2nd hand accounts as gospel, which is fine, just not how i roll.

But if you said your friend took notes of who looks good/not physically. Was there any other comments on other players?

because there�s no longer a spot for him, even on the bench. Rooting for Dom, although I don�t see a path for him any longer. Hopefully, he rakes in Syracuse all year and is ready if a few injuries hit.

of Dom and in reference to Nick Martini who I suggested as a trade target... The Mets are unbelievably lop sided toward RH hitters on the 40 man. The only LH hitters on the 40 man are Nimmo, Conforto, Cano, McNeil + Lowrie and Dom. They really would be smart to look to add some LH depth. Davis, Rivera, Cecchini, Alonso, are all RH and I'm not sure Guillorme would even be considered a hitter at all.

In comment 14298174 CMicks3110 said:

Quote:

not gonna debate you. But you often take 2nd hand accounts as gospel, which is fine, just not how i roll. But if you said your friend took notes of who looks good/not physically. Was there any other comments on other players?

Again.. if Shecky saying it isn't enough for you then I can't even debate you. I'm not there. I trust Shecky 100%. I don't always agree with his opinions but I trust what his eyes say.

said Dom looked great (but noted he's come to camp looking good before), Rosario put on some muscle, Thor looks lean, JD Davis is a huge man and laughed at the notes that say TDA is 6'2

Mesaraco/Mickey all but assuring us Mes is deGrom�s personal catcher. Is TDA still expected to start season on DL?

and that Tebow throws a baseball as if he's throwing with the wrong hand lol

should be released. Brodie said he is catcher only despite the buzz he might see other positions. Release TDA and put that 1.5 million or so in savings towards Buchholz or Santana.

players. If they want them, they can go after them regardless. TDA�s money isn�t holding that up IMO.

if he can up his game. That could be a huge bonus to our lineup.

I don�t have a clue what�s going on with TdA. I hear one thing, see another, and opinion is different than the above anyway. Low risk, some upside. Money isn�t a real issue. Who knows what the real plan is...

In comment 14298190 Shecky said:

Quote:

I don�t have a clue what�s going on with TdA. I hear one thing, see another, and opinion is different than the above anyway. Low risk, some upside. Money isn�t a real issue. Who knows what the real plan is...

Kind of what I thought. Thanks!

In comment 14298188 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

players. If they want them, they can go after them regardless. TDA�s money isn�t holding that up IMO.

No but spending 14 million on 3 catchers doesn't make a ton of sense, especially 3.25 on your third catcher. When is he playing if DM is DeGrom's personal catcher? They have Nido and added a few garbage C depth guys at AAA. Brett Anderson got 1.5 million guaranteed so they money very well could land you or get you close to a Buccholz

Im thinking they see some upside with TDA still if he can stay healthy and would prefer that but covered their bases by signing DM because TDA is such a wild card.

Maybe they start TDA on the DL and make him earn the backup position back from DM, or maybe he shows enough in the spring that they send DM to the minors right away but I dont see any way all three catchers make the roster. Somebody will be the odd man out eventually but I do like having the depth for now.

And maybe its just because Mets fan weren't too familiar with DM when we acquired him, but he's actually the scariest injury risk of all. You hear about Ramos and TDA, but DM's injury history makes those two look like Cal Ripkin. lol.

Could care less about watching our "known" players but I am dying to see JD Davis, Rosario, Smith, Alonso, McNeil, TJ Rivera, TDA, Cecchini, Dilson this spring.. On the pitching side Im very excited to see how Flexen looks... Drew Smith, Bashlor, Zamora, etc.

Cant wait to get to St. Lucie in a couple weeks.

do you expect Zamora to look like? lol he throws mid 80s and is 26. He is what he is. I'm not saying he can't help but what are you hoping to see that you haven't? lol

✔
@timbhealey
Mickey Callaway on possibility of holding Peter Alonso in minors (for service time manipulation): �Brodie has made it clear that he�s a players� guy. And if he deserves it, he�s going to be on the team.�

In comment 14298221 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

do you expect Zamora to look like? lol he throws mid 80s and is 26. He is what he is. I'm not saying he can't help but what are you hoping to see that you haven't? lol

Consistency and the ability to get LH out with that slider specifically. If he's going to make it he needs to be a good LOOGY and he sort of had reverse splits in the majors last year. (SSS)

don't think you will be able to take much away from his limited ST innings. You will however be able to see if Avilan's velocity is back or if he's shot

In comment 14298224 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

✔ @timbhealey Mickey Callaway on possibility of holding Peter Alonso in minors (for service time manipulation): �Brodie has made it clear that he�s a players� guy. And if he deserves it, he�s going to be on the team.�

Like I said earlier, it doesn�t make sense to me.

My only thinking is,it wins huge good Will amongst the players, and he doesn�t think it will matter when the new CBa is done and they get rid of that anyway.

and we lose him a year early over 12 games. Especially, when Smith, JD Davis, and Frazier can easily fill in depending on what you want to see.

In comment 14298238 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

and we lose him a year early over 12 games. Especially, when Smith, JD Davis, and Frazier can easily fill in depending on what you want to see.

He�s got THE WORST profile for a FA that it sucks more for him than anything. But yeah, two weeks of Alonso vs an extra year of control is really idiotic to even entertain the thought. Never mind the half dozen alternatives on the roster to cover there.

Seeing and hearing them is really nice. It�s something that has been missing from a young kid in spring for a really long time around here.

Speaking of �around here�, assume everyone put two and two together this week why Rico took that offer...

Anthony DiComo
✔
@AnthonyDiComo
Mickey Callaway called Peter Alonso "probably the most improved defensive guy" Mets coaches have seen "in a long time." That jives with what many scouts have described as major strides in Alonso's defensive game over the past 12 months.

I dont care. Love the guy.

In comment 14298248 Shecky said:

Quote:

Seeing and hearing them is really nice. It�s something that has been missing from a young kid in spring for a really long time around here. Speaking of �around here�, assume everyone put two and two together this week why Rico took that offer...

Shecky, is this in regard to a possible move out of Port St. Lucie? Would Ricco be the point man on that project?

In comment 14298385 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

holy shit.

The one guy who really reported in the best shape of his life!

He looks like a LH hitting Rosario.

Maybe he becomes our new CF leadoff hitter. ;)

In comment 14298132 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

being signed (and how cheap they are) along with still no signing of Harper/Machado is worst case scenario for DeGrom has well. Can�t blame him for being pissed but the Mets are 100% doing the right thing. Timing is everything and his age plus this new trend to be more careful with long term deals are both hitting at the same time.

What are you talking about? The one decent top of the rotation FA got the best contract of anybody in FA. Top pitching still gets paid.

JDG is a better pitcher, and has a better track record, but that's still likely the absolute max he'd be able to get 2 years early. Unfortunately for JDG and his agents the good news for their negotiating position stopped there this offseason - especially the Carrasco extension.

Carrasco is a better pitcher than Corbin and just like JDG he had 2 years of team control remaining. He's won 35 games over the past 2 years worth 11 fwar. 1 of just 7 pitchers include JDG worth over 10 fwar the past 2 seasons. He got extended for 2 extra years that brought his guaranteed total to 4 years 47m, with a 5th year option that would bring him up to $60m. The AAV he accepted (11.75m) is literally half of what Patrick Corbin got on the open market (23.3m). That's how much leverage his team had with those 2 years of control.

For JDG there's a fair deal somewhere in between those 2 for both sides. Splitting the difference would be 5 years $100m. Defer some money and his AAV wouldn't even change all that much from what he's likely to get in arbitration the next 2 years. I don't think JDG is turning down any offer over $100m the way this market has worked. Hard to argue against getting 1 of the best pitchers in baseball signed for half of what it took the Nats to get Scherzer - who has already been well worth his $210m contract. If JDG can age the way Scherzer did anything under Corbin will be a steal.

Minor league deal. Another sweet depth move.

depth moves in the past. Espinosa, Hechaveria, Mesoraco, Blanco, Davis, Santiago, etc.

Really refreshing to see.

�he�s in a great spot mentally.�
Where have we heard that before lol

but picturing first El Sid running conditioning at all, and second running terrified out of the woods is a hilarious visual.

Quote:

Tim Kurkjian ‏Verified account @Kurkjian_ESPN 31m31 minutes ago The Mets� spring facility was built on a hunting preserve. Their first year there, manager Davey Johnson had his pitchers run on a trail in the woods. Sid Fernandez was chased out of the woods by a warthog. Sid was screaming, �There�s a monster in there!!� #onlyinspringtraining

That�s a hysterical visual!!!

First day of school, noticed lots of media walking and talking, so hopefully some real good player pieces and tidbits start coming out the next coup,e of days.

I know cano was brought in to be a veteran pro with a winning background and all. But man, I had no clue how quickly and how much he really is embracing trying to make an imprint. Extremely impressed by it. Reminds me a bit of the way/presence Delgado brought with him. Very, very impressive.

Once DeGroms repaired CY comes back, just hand it directly to Thor...
SIGN THOR!!!!!!!!! Seeing a more mature Thor...

Brodie is officially THE most popular Met. I 110% expect that within the first 10 home games, a camera will catch a Mets fan in the stands wearing a jersey its his name on it. Mark my words, it WILL happen. He�s getting the respect of the media by being honest. Players absolutely LOVE him. Get the vibe they�d go throug a wall for him like Bobby V and Daley. Wish we could have BVW be the manager and not just GM at this point...

Nothing major going on. Everyone�s fighting for the �hidden gem� to right about. So don�t buy into everything you read the next couple days lol

In comment 14299235 Shecky said:

Quote:

That�s a hysterical visual!!! First day of school, noticed lots of media walking and talking, so hopefully some real good player pieces and tidbits start coming out the next coup,e of days. I know cano was brought in to be a veteran pro with a winning background and all. But man, I had no clue how quickly and how much he really is embracing trying to make an imprint. Extremely impressed by it. Reminds me a bit of the way/presence Delgado brought with him. Very, very impressive. Once DeGroms repaired CY comes back, just hand it directly to Thor... SIGN THOR!!!!!!!!! Seeing a more mature Thor... Brodie is officially THE most popular Met. I 110% expect that within the first 10 home games, a camera will catch a Mets fan in the stands wearing a jersey its his name on it. Mark my words, it WILL happen. He�s getting the respect of the media by being honest. Players absolutely LOVE him. Get the vibe they�d go throug a wall for him like Bobby V and Daley. Wish we could have BVW be the manager and not just GM at this point... Nothing major going on. Everyone�s fighting for the �hidden gem� to right about. So don�t buy into everything you read the next couple days lol

Shecky, whats the vibe on Travis d'Arnaud's demotion and supposed trade/cut during all of this. Has to be somewhat somber while this is all going on

I got nothing for ya

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Callaway:

"JD Davis is going to play first, outfield (both corner spots), and "little third".....and at this point you're not going to see him pitch"

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Callaway, "Frazier is going to bounce back between first and third"

but typical.


Baseball America
‏Verified account @BaseballAmerica
23s23 seconds ago

Teams in on the top prospects on the international market:

- Yankees
- A's
- Rangers
- Royals
- Dodgers
- Phillies
- Cubs
- Padres
- Angels
- Rockies

Behind the BA paywall so I can't see the details, but the Mets seem to do just enough in the IFA market to avoid criticism, but never enough to get fans excited. Mauricio was 3rd rated (?) but it's like an every few years thing where they make a splash.

but IFA, it's hard to say that's an area to bash. They get shamed every year for not being in on the tier 1 guys every year, but instead they are targeting 2 guys every year, "overpay" for them to lock them up and it's been working. This year, they'll build their system depth instead because no one is jumping out.

In comment 14299536 Shecky said:

Quote:

but IFA, it's hard to say that's an area to bash. They get shamed every year for not being in on the tier 1 guys every year, but instead they are targeting 2 guys every year, "overpay" for them to lock them up and it's been working. This year, they'll build their system depth instead because no one is jumping out.

I know and like I said they do enough to avoid criticism, but they never go and get that #1 guy, fans I think would welcome aggression even if they miss. at least it shows commitment. Of course if the mid-level IFA signings panned out and elevated the farm and eventually the big league club fans would say they know what they're doing.

for now though I think of it as a typical Mets approach.

I know I would.

I know JD didn�t do much in his time with Houston, but he crushed MiLB and was considered a strong prospect in the past. Did he get �exposed� in Houston in a way that would discredit his previous status as a top prospect? Or could it be a limited sample size where he didn�t get on track?

In comment 14299553 csb said:

Quote:

I know JD didn�t do much in his time with Houston, but he crushed MiLB and was considered a strong prospect in the past. Did he get �exposed� in Houston in a way that would discredit his previous status as a top prospect? Or could it be a limited sample size where he didn�t get on track?

First and foremost... JD Davis is 26 years old in April. Alonso is 2 full years younger. If we are sitting here in 2 years waiting for Alonso to hit he'll be viewed as a non-prospect. Shine off of bat only players disappears quickly. AJ Reed was viewed as the next mashing 1b, now you NEVER hear him mention. Also concerns with Davis's swing that don't exist with Alonso.

shocked how much they gave Hecheverria. Guy has been awful with the bat his entire career. Clearly they think Guillorme is sub-MLB level.

In comment 14299553 csb said:

Quote:

I know JD didn�t do much in his time with Houston, but he crushed MiLB and was considered a strong prospect in the past. Did he get �exposed� in Houston in a way that would discredit his previous status as a top prospect? Or could it be a limited sample size where he didn�t get on track?

Very good question. And the answer to the question is exactly why everyone has been hesitant to like Alonso from Day one. His profile is historical very, very poor. The difference between a AAAA player and Goldschmidt - really is razor thin. Maybe an exaggeration.

Davis is good. And there are a ton of guys just like him. He works incredibly hard and is driven, so perhaps he could make a career out of this after all. But Alonso does some things more elite than the Davis's of the world. Again though, the margin of error is so razor thin for the Alonso's of the world that literally everything has to click right for him to make it. So for the Davis's of the world - it all has to click, sprinkled with a little luck, etc.

In comment 14299556 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

shocked how much they gave Hecheverria. Guy has been awful with the bat his entire career. Clearly they think Guillorme is sub-MLB level.

That's the new free agency world. No one wants to sign a fringe FA only to cut him in May. Or even worse, feel obligated to bring him up North for Opening Day purely because of salary.
Now, teams say hey we will pay you - but you've really got to wow us in spring and force our hand. The good is, it motivates guys who are on the fringe. The really, really bad part is the unintended consequence that will rear it's head for some clubs. And that is spring training is a bonding time for the boys to become family. With lives and contracts on the line in a new way, they'll be some more politicking, some backroom bickering, alliances among friends etc...

pre-2016..#11 prospect in baseball 150 bad ab's at the MLB level and you wouldn't even know he was still playing. He's 26 in May.

In comment 14299553 csb said:

Quote:

I know JD didn�t do much in his time with Houston, but he crushed MiLB and was considered a strong prospect in the past. Did he get �exposed� in Houston in a way that would discredit his previous status as a top prospect? Or could it be a limited sample size where he didn�t get on track?

Zero. They are 100% major league baseball's next "Bash Brothers". Only an act of God could prevent it from happening. ;)

agree to remain in St. Lucie

In comment 14299608 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

agree to remain in St. Lucie

We�ll see

on the Mets revised analytics approach and their new assistant GM (33 year old Adam Guttridge)

it does seem kind of weird to me though that Alderson, the man in the GM seat when moneyball actually became a thing even if Beane is who the movie is about, didn't care as much as it seems BVW does about analytics.



Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14299615 Shecky said:

Quote:

In comment 14299608 DanMetroMan said: Quote: agree to remain in St. Lucie We�ll see

Shecky just quoting this-

PORT ST. LUCIE � The New York Mets and St. Lucie County appear to have reached an agreement that will renovate their spring-training stadium, First Data Field, and keep spring training in Port St. Lucie until 2042.

And still have to �vote�.
IMO, best thing that can Hellen is it falls apart and they move south. Just need to find another org to share with...
Politicians being politicians, that�s all. I assume it will get done. But IF it�s a done deal, it�s aha,f assed deal unfortunate,y.

just watching highlights of draft eligible RHP Daniel Espino... NASTY!!

In comment 14299623 Shecky said:

Quote:

And still have to �vote�. IMO, best thing that can Hellen is it falls apart and they move south. Just need to find another org to share with... Politicians being politicians, that�s all. I assume it will get done. But IF it�s a done deal, it�s aha,f assed deal unfortunate,y.

55 million for a spring training facility is a terrible deal for St. Lucie. I'm sure they have a lot better things they could spend that money on.

vote is this morning and if you believe the Mets are serious IF voted down or delayed the Mets are going to announce they are ready to move on.

Any $$ over contract should just be split 50/50. Since that�s a substantial number to be picked up by the ballclub, the club gets the final say in the total spent.

These are small time politicians who are prone to big time mistakes. Assume it goes through, but if not,IMO, it�s best for the franchise. They�d have years to find a partner, which would be easy, and have an amazing facility further south.

for these spring training sites. If St. Lucie doesn't want to play ball, then bye bye. I wouldn't mind seeing a wider variety of spring training teams to play against anyway.

the JD Davis talk early indication is Mickey prefers a 4 man bench and extra reliever. That would mean no room for Davis to begin the season.

In comment 14299844 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

the JD Davis talk early indication is Mickey prefers a 4 man bench and extra reliever. That would mean no room for Davis to begin the season.

I think there's a realistic (even if it's not likely) chance JD Davis is the opening day 1B. Frazier doesn't look good and I wouldn't be surprised if he has a bad spring or gets hurt. Remember that a GM is likely to try and find a way to roster a guy he traded for. Keep an eye on Davis this spring.

Completely uninformed speculation on my part.

In comment 14299847 Metnut said:

Quote:

In comment 14299844 DanMetroMan said: Quote: the JD Davis talk early indication is Mickey prefers a 4 man bench and extra reliever. That would mean no room for Davis to begin the season. I think there's a realistic (even if it's not likely) chance JD Davis is the opening day 1B. Frazier doesn't look good and I wouldn't be surprised if he has a bad spring or gets hurt. Remember that a GM is likely to try and find a way to roster a guy he traded for. Keep an eye on Davis this spring. Completely uninformed speculation on my part.

Again IF they really go with a 4 man bench there is no real way for this to happen

1 would be the backup C
2 of Lagares, McNeil and Broxton
1 would be Hechavarr�a

Now if someone gets hurt or they abandon a 4 man bench sure.. but otherwise I don't see any path barring a shocking move like Frazier traded or dumping Lagares or Broxton.

bench would work. They are really going to send one of Lagares or Broxton to the minors? This SS Hech can opt-out if he goes to the minors right?

I'll believe a 4-man bench when I see it.

he really is going to play with such a short bench voluntarily when teams are bringing in 1298342190834219040 relievers a game to set up preferred platoon advantage not to mention having 2 ABs a game where you need to cover for the pitcher.

In comment 14299868 Metnut said:

Quote:

bench would work. They are really going to send one of Lagares or Broxton to the minors? This SS Hech can opt-out if he goes to the minors right? I'll believe a 4-man bench when I see it.

Broxton and Hechavarria are out of options, Lagares can reject assignment. All 3 are expected to make the team. Broxton just cost them 3 prospects, looking back it wasn't ideal given the team makeup but to cut bait now would look really bad.

Jarrett Seidler
Jarrett Seidler
@jaseidler
�
1h
if you believe what the Mets are saying, you�re looking at a four-man bench of a backup catcher, two defensively oriented backup CFs, and a defensively oriented backup SS, all RHH. Who is your seventh inning PH against Max Scherzer or Pat Neshek

and Syndergaard might be the Mets best LH PHers in that scenario.

stupid shit.

In comment 14299881 Metnut said:

Quote:

stupid shit.

They have to start the season well or I think he's legit in trouble. Brodie didn't hire him and this is Brodie's team.

4 man bench. No LH
If/when. Es back, one of the Lb OF to the bench. Solved.
Unti the. Cano on bench every ten games. Conforto and Nimmo breathers to keep healthy. Especially when Lhap SP

In comment 14299592 ZGiants98 said:

Quote:

Two of those projected starters may not start. Kingery and Quinn will push for starting jobs and mmake their defense a huge upgrade.

seeing some Mets fans taking shots at DeGrom.

My issue is this...

The GM and owner both went on record stating they planned on making him an offer in the coming weeks. Whether you want them to extend him or not is besides the point. They said they would. They haven't. DeGrom's agent PRIOR to any of this noted in a memo that limiting innings is one option for players not on long term deals.

DeGrom was asked about it, didn't shoot it down and now people (not all) are suddenly upset with DeGrom or feel differently about DeGrom and THAT is fully on the Mets. Control the narrative. Focus on the 2019 team communicate better with your best player. Really sucks to see a guy we all love suddenly getting dinged over something this. It's pretty clear the entire "controversy" could have been avoided by continued dialogue from the Mets and movement toward at the very least.. an initial offer, or a meeting to begin exchanging numbers. It's been 13 weeks sinde Brodie said there would be an offer in the "coming weeks". I think we'd all be frustrated in DeGrom's shoes.

In comment 14299882 DanMetroMan said:

Quote:

In comment 14299881 Metnut said: Quote: stupid shit. They have to start the season well or I think he's legit in trouble. Brodie didn't hire him and this is Brodie's team.

Do you think there is any way Brodie fires Mickey Callaway at some point this season and takes over as manager himself? Retaining GM and Manager responsibilities similar to Belichik in NE?

A couple thoughts:
-He already said he plans on traveling with the team when they on the road.
-They hired Riggleman to help with the in game strategy.
-They beefed up their analytics department which they will lean on to set lineups.
-Early vibe from PSL is the players love him and would run through a wall for this guy.
-Ownership seems to trust him enough to let him do this.

In comment 14299988 debo_GIANTS said:

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In comment 14299882 DanMetroMan said: Quote: In comment 14299881 Metnut said: Quote: stupid shit. They have to start the season well or I think he's legit in trouble. Brodie didn't hire him and this is Brodie's team. Do you think there is any way Brodie fires Mickey Callaway at some point this season and takes over as manager himself? Retaining GM and Manager responsibilities similar to Belichik in NE? A couple thoughts: -He already said he plans on traveling with the team when they on the road. -They hired Riggleman to help with the in game strategy. -They beefed up their analytics department which they will lean on to set lineups. -Early vibe from PSL is the players love him and would run through a wall for this guy. -Ownership seems to trust him enough to let him do this.

Too much of a target on his back in a mostly thankless job. I think Riggleman is here in case they need to pull the plug on Mickey. Hey I'm rooting for Mickey, I just question how long the leash is.

Staying

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Love the thought but less than zero chance

They only have to worry about options if they bring him up north from the gecko. They can start him in the minors unless he has an "opt out"

That said, he probably is one of the favorites to make the team.

In comment 14300512 ZGiants98 said:

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They only have to worry about options if they bring him up north from the gecko. They can start him in the minors unless he has an "opt out" That said, he probably is one of the favorites to make the team.

He has an opt out the last day of ST.

In comment 14300530 DanMetroMan said:

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In comment 14300512 ZGiants98 said: Quote: They only have to worry about options if they bring him up north from the gecko. They can start him in the minors unless he has an "opt out" That said, he probably is one of the favorites to make the team. He has an opt out the last day of ST.

Yeah. I guess if he takes the opt out then there is nothing we can do. He might not though. Probably a chance he doesnt get picked up by another team. I like the signing but Im not sure I want to put us in that predicament as far as the flexibility with the bench. Somebody like Espinosa probably isnt that all much different as a bench option and he's probably more willing to be on a shuttle bus. Guess we'll see how it shakes out soon enough.

any idea what the plan is with Mauricio/Newton? Both should be starting at SS for their perspective teams.

In comment 14300533 ZGiants98 said:

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In comment 14300530 DanMetroMan said: Quote: In comment 14300512 ZGiants98 said: Quote: They only have to worry about options if they bring him up north from the gecko. They can start him in the minors unless he has an "opt out" That said, he probably is one of the favorites to make the team. He has an opt out the last day of ST. Yeah. I guess if he takes the opt out then there is nothing we can do. He might not though. Probably a chance he doesnt get picked up by another team. I like the signing but Im not sure I want to put us in that predicament as far as the flexibility with the bench. Somebody like Espinosa probably isnt that all much different as a bench option and he's probably more willing to be on a shuttle bus. Guess we'll see how it shakes out soon enough.

Beat writers said he had multiple offers. I'd presume they were minor league offers like the Mets, but would just take one of those teams to offer him a roster spot at the end of spring.

In comment 14300590 DanMetroMan said:

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any idea what the plan is with Mauricio/Newton? Both should be starting at SS for their perspective teams.

Purely guesswork at this point. But Mauricio to me would be the priority you build other promotions or position changes around. And I�d assume he starts in kingsport. Guess/opinion, that�s all.

In comment 14300616 Shecky said:

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In comment 14300590 DanMetroMan said: Quote: any idea what the plan is with Mauricio/Newton? Both should be starting at SS for their perspective teams. Purely guesswork at this point. But Mauricio to me would be the priority you build other promotions or position changes around. And I�d assume he starts in kingsport. Guess/opinion, that�s all.

Many people really love Newton so I just hope they don't move him off of SS just to have them play at the same level. Law thinks he's already plus at SS, that's not a player you move. MASSIVE bust potential, I mean he might be looked at as a total non-prospect given his K rate in 12 months but he also could rocket up the Mets rankings.

He�s the boom or bust guy you always want the Mets to go after. Personally, I see what�s to love but not my profile I personally like. Best thing that can happen is he stays at SS and gets off to a ridiculous start and could somehow be a trade centerpiece.

mean he signed for 50K so yeah, they should always be looking to sign guys like this. I'm intrigued to see Adrian Hernandez in his stateside debut. They held him in the DSL (somewhat unusual for their top signees), put up decent numbers, smallish but reports are good. Should be interesting but he got 1.5 million and is 5'9. Newton is a 6'4 monster that signed for pennies.

kids I'm intrigued to see for 2019

Alvarez, Valdez, Marcano. Curious to see Santos as he faces better hitters, Consuegra

In comment 14300636 DanMetroMan said:

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kids I'm intrigued to see for 2019 Alvarez, Valdez, Marcano. Curious to see Santos as he faces better hitters, Consuegra

Consuegra Is very very intriguing to me. Long way to go, but toolsy and can put the bat on the ball. Very interested if/how he develops.

In comment 14300664 Shecky said:

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In comment 14300636 DanMetroMan said: Quote: kids I'm intrigued to see for 2019 Alvarez, Valdez, Marcano. Curious to see Santos as he faces better hitters, Consuegra Consuegra Is very very intriguing to me. Long way to go, but toolsy and can put the bat on the ball. Very interested if/how he develops.

Consuegra has been compared to Lagares by some. Plus athlete a lot of room to grow. Under the radar name to follow: RHP David Marcano. At 16 years old: final 5 starts 23.2 innings 17 hits 12 walks 18 k's 3.49 era, gave him "4th round" money (they haven't spent on P IFA's)

But I just don�t get it other than SS �>OF.
To me, this is the same as when people compared Gimenez to Tejada when they really didn�t have the same strengths.

Obviously Alonso and Gimenez had strong years that elevated their prospect status, but Vientos/Newton both put themselves on the map into top 100 discussions. McNeil broke out in a massive way. Mauricio took another step forward. Had the strongest draft in a while, although they traded a lot of it this offseason. Hard for me to identify who the real young guys in the system outside of the top 7-8 who could do what Vientos/Newton did last year beyond SWR (Santos? Alvarez?) but hopefully someone emerges.

Where I'm intrigued with the system this year is with the crop of older potential bouncebacks. We all know the story with the TJS pitchers but I see a lot of every day guys coming into this season with zero expectations, who have flashed playable tools but have had injury issues interrupt their development. Several were high-ish 2nd/3rd rd picks like Toffey, Cecchini, Lindsay, even Thompson and the glove first guys like Nido & Guillorme. I wouldn't be shocked to see any of those guys beaten out by veteran minor leaguers/waived like Cecchini was in the next month and never heard from, but I also wouldn't be totally shocked to see something click unexpectedly for 1 of them like it did for Mcneil last year.

in Syracuse is going to be silly with Cecchini and Dilson Herrera both being 2b only and TJ Rivera mostly a 2b as well. Considering nobody claimed Cecchini I guess they couldn't get anything for him but simply too many bodies in Syracuse.

I'm not calling you out but Mauricio debuted in 2018 so "another" step forward seems tough lol

on paper

Alonso (eventually will be up), Dom, Thompson, Davis (could make the big club), Rivera (potentially could make the team but it would be he OR Davis), Cecchini, Dilson Herrera, Guillorme, Hech (he's likely opting out if he doesn't make the team), Alcantara, Espinosa, simply too many bodies.

In comment 14300768 DanMetroMan said:

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on paper Alonso (eventually will be up), Dom, Thompson, Davis (could make the big club), Rivera (potentially could make the team but it would be he OR Davis), Cecchini, Dilson Herrera, Guillorme, Hech (he's likely opting out if he doesn't make the team), Alcantara, Espinosa, simply too many bodies.

Don't forget Tebow. I'm sure he'll be getting every day ABs.

Syracuse offense at least looks respectable even if a little boring. Our system's IF depth at the high level is actually impressive, especially considering where it was a few years ago.

What's the Syracuse starting pitching look like? I'm thinking awful but is there an interesting guy or two I'm forgetting about? Any high upside bullpen arms that we might look out for in Queens at some point?

Dan was talking about IF/2B. I should read more before responding.

In comment 14300784 Metnut said:

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In comment 14300768 DanMetroMan said: Quote: on paper Alonso (eventually will be up), Dom, Thompson, Davis (could make the big club), Rivera (potentially could make the team but it would be he OR Davis), Cecchini, Dilson Herrera, Guillorme, Hech (he's likely opting out if he doesn't make the team), Alcantara, Espinosa, simply too many bodies. Don't forget Tebow. I'm sure he'll be getting every day ABs. Syracuse offense at least looks respectable even if a little boring. Our system's IF depth at the high level is actually impressive, especially considering where it was a few years ago. What's the Syracuse starting pitching look like? I'm thinking awful but is there an interesting guy or two I'm forgetting about? Any high upside bullpen arms that we might look out for in Queens at some point?

That's only the infield! That's how crowded it is.

Syracuse pitching looks pretty awful in terms of "interesting"

Flexen, Oswalt, Lockett, lee, Gagnon is the projected rotation.

Bullpen "upside" you'd be looking at Hanhold or Ryder Ryan I guess. The AAA team may win games but prospecty it's not.

Lowrie has knee soreness and is going for an MRI. Mets seems to think its relatively minor and aren't too worried.

In comment 14300763 DanMetroMan said:

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I'm not calling you out but Mauricio debuted in 2018 so "another" step forward seems tough lol

I meant in terms of how he was perceived - beyond the high SB$ there was positive discussion around him from wherever he was playing/training (dominican?) prior to last season and he was already inside the top 10 on most of the team lists. Moreso than Alvarez pre-debut right now by comparison (at least that I've seen).

In comment 14300945 Metnut said:

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Lowrie has knee soreness and is going for an MRI. Mets seems to think its relatively minor and aren't too worried.

so it begins.

In comment 14300949 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 14300763 DanMetroMan said: Quote: I'm not calling you out but Mauricio debuted in 2018 so "another" step forward seems tough lol I meant in terms of how he was perceived - beyond the high SB$ there was positive discussion around him from wherever he was playing/training (dominican?) prior to last season and he was already inside the top 10 on most of the team lists. Moreso than Alvarez pre-debut right now by comparison (at least that I've seen).

That's what I'm saying. He skipped the DSL. He never had a single pro AB before the 2018 season. He was a huge bonus kid. His buzz was 100% pre-signing/bonus. There was nothing else to judge. He came stateside, Hernandez was left in the DSL. We had Mauricio #13 coming into the 2018 season over at NYFS. Sickels had him #16, I don't subscribe to BP but they had him outside their top 10. Alvarez was have ranked #13 for 2019, Mauricio #3

mean he had a solid debut and the buzz is good but the numbers weren't anything special. A step forward would be a solid statistical season in 2019. .713 OPS with 3 homers, 6 steals, 16 errors in 53 games is "fine" for his age but he wasn't outstanding like say Wander Franco (also 17) who looks like he could be the next phenom.

In comment 14300768 DanMetroMan said:

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on paper Alonso (eventually will be up), Dom, Thompson, Davis (could make the big club), Rivera (potentially could make the team but it would be he OR Davis), Cecchini, Dilson Herrera, Guillorme, Hech (he's likely opting out if he doesn't make the team), Alcantara, Espinosa, simply too many bodies.

Yeah no idea how the PT shakes out but good to see some competition I guess.

Got to think Alonso/Dom are 1B/DH (intl league has DH right?). Maybe they let Dom play LF until Alonso comes up. Davis I think makes the big club. If not he takes 1 of the positions from whichever of the other 2 did.

At 3B I think it's Thompson vs. Rivera though I could also see Rivera just playing a utility role all over the place. I could see Davis playing here occasionally too, but since it's more likely he plays OF/1B with the big club I'd guess that's where he gets time initially.

At 2B I think it's Cecchini vs. Dilson. At SS I think it's Guillorme vs. Espinosa vs. Alcantara, who could also move around like Rivera since he has seemingly played everywhere the past few years.

has a DH only during NL vs. NL games.

says Dom will play exclusively 1b this spring so it looks like they may have pulled the plug on Dom in the OF.

In comment 14300974 DanMetroMan said:

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That's what I'm saying. He skipped the DSL. He never had a single pro AB before the 2018 season. He was a huge bonus kid. His buzz was 100% pre-signing/bonus. There was nothing else to judge. He came stateside, Hernandez was left in the DSL. We had Mauricio #13 coming into the 2018 season over at NYFS. Sickels had him #16, I don't subscribe to BP but they had him outside their top 10. Alvarez was have ranked #13 for 2019, Mauricio #3

Law + pipeline both had him in the top 10 and I recall more positive comments about him than I've seen of Alvarez (nothing beyond his scouting reports from when he signed). But I could literally just be recalling Shecky talking him up whereas I've just not heard much about Alvarez since those initial reports.

In comment 14300988 DanMetroMan said:

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says Dom will play exclusively 1b this spring so it looks like they may have pulled the plug on Dom in the OF.

The only thing I don't like about that is if he and Alonso both end up in Cuse, we obviously want Alonso getting as many reps defensively as possible at 1b. But I guess that could be a very short term problem.

being a catcher already puts his bust rate at peak levels. Despite his bonus his physical tools are not great and he's already listed at 220 pounds. Both he and Valdez received big bonuses and are interesting but both have red flags.

Here is AA on Alvarez

"Considered one of the top international rookies in the 2018-2019 class, the Mets pounced on Venezuelan catcher Francisco Alvarez, immediately signing him for a club-high $2.7 million, breaking Ronny Mauricio�s then-record $2.1 million signing bonus.

Alvarez currently has a power-over-hit profile, as the current timing and rhythm of his swing limits his ability to hit for contact. He stands tall at the plate, with a wide base. He lunges towards the ball, getting the force of his body into his swing, generating power but making his susceptible to swinging-and-missing.

Behind the plate, stocky 5�11��, 220-pound catcher�s defense lags behind his offense, but he has a solid foundation to work with. He possesses a strong arm and generally shows solid defensive instincts behind the plate, moving surprisingly well for someone his size. Some scouts and evaluators are worried that his already stocky body will grow too big and unathletic to stick behind the dish, forcing him to change positions and lose a great deal of his value. If so, he will likely be limited to just first base, as he lacks speed and quick twitch explosiveness."

you can be so unathletic you have to move off catcher?

I don't think catchers can be icebergs, but generally they seem like some of the least athletic players on the team, definitely at least the veterans usually do - even if they don't start out that way.

In comment 14301019 pjcas18 said:

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you can be so unathletic you have to move off catcher? I don't think catchers can be icebergs, but generally they seem like some of the least athletic players on the team, definitely at least the veterans usually do - even if they don't start out that way.

(speaking hypothetically and not about the player being discussed because I've never even see him play) but 5'11 220 at 16 is a bit of a concern in terms of blocking balls and moving in general)


BA also makes note of this

"Alvarez displayed a strong arm in the pre-game workout on his throws to second base, with pop times from 1.83-1.90 seconds. He will have to improve his receiving, which he had trouble with in games, and he will have to stay on top of his conditioning to remain a catcher.
"

Matt Ehalt
Matt Ehalt
@MattEhalt
�
18m
Lowrie on how concerned he is: �That�s a good question. We need to figure out what�s going on first before we start worrying about how concerning.�

In comment 14301176 DanMetroMan said:

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Matt Ehalt Matt Ehalt @MattEhalt � 18m Lowrie on how concerned he is: �That�s a good question. We need to figure out what�s going on first before we start worrying about how concerning.�

That sounds ominous. Hopefully we get good news tomorrow.

You new to being a Mets fan, or always optomistic ;)

Separately, outfielder Brandon Nimmo is experiencing discomfort in his right shoulder and refrained from throwing during defensive drills Wednesday, instead underhanding the ball back to the coaches. He called it �just some early-season soreness.�

The Mets aren�t sure how serious Lowrie�s issue is, but manager Mickey Callaway said they will be cautious, with the goal of getting him ready for Opening Day. Lowrie said the issue popped up over the weekend while he was running.

�The first time I felt it, there was a fair bit of pain, and then it�s kind of remained the same,� Lowrie said. �It�s just one of those things you got to get checked out.

�We need to figure out what�s going on first before we start worrying about how concerned , , , It started when I really started ramping up, getting into top-end speed stuff and batting practice. I felt it on the back side of me knee.�


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How did none of this show up

are unable to do basic baseball activities a couple days into camp. Still 5 weeks until the season, but cmon guys!

and Nimmo out for the season, hope those are the only lumps the Mets take.