and for him, unfortunate. I get it, and nine times out of ten I agree with Mike.
I just think this situation is so fucked up because of the Mets that deGrom is now looking across the table at a guy who 3-4 months ago was on his "side" in this discussion. Can you imagine how pissed off you'd be if you were deGrom?
until he actually does self impose a usage limit on himself. If that happens, I'll start going nuts here.
What's more likely going on is that DeGrom and his agent realize that their are lacking leverage here. He's still under Mets control for 2 more years, and he's not going to be at a great age when he hits UFA. The UFA market looks increasingly dicey for older pitchers, and that's even assuming he gets through 2 more years healthy.
This is DeGrom's camp's way to try and create a little bit of leverage and pressure on the Mets to come to the table and do a deal. I think we'll see a deal done before the start of the season.
More interesting will be what the team does with Wheeler if he picks up where he left off last year. There's not exactly a lot of money coming off the books after 2019.
they play. Especially if its self serving. To me that screams the team as the right to claw back the pay then. It would be akin to barkley saying I am only going to have 15 carries a game next year.
But he was right. Wrong for Degrom to imply or insinuate he may have to take it easy if his agents say so. He got a massive raise and its not the Mets fault the CBA and his age play against him.
RE: I dont get how players can determine how much Â
they play. Especially if its self serving. To me that screams the team as the right to claw back the pay then. It would be akin to barkley saying I am only going to have 15 carries a game next year.
Ahhhh, someone gets it. Right to the heart of the issue here...
Woe is me for an MLB player I know, but to date he's earned about $30M (after the 17M from this year). Nowhere near chump change of course, but he still hasn't had his chance to cash in as an elite starting pitcher. He'll be hitting UFA for the first time at 32, turning 33, with TJS in his past.
Yes, it's wrong to put out there that you may put a self-imposed innings limit, but he literally just watched the backfire of this to a teammate not 3 years ago. Remember the mega-deal Matt Harvey was going to get, the most pursued SP FA when he finally hit the market. Got hit with bad luck, and the injury bug, and now he's settling for one year deals in Cincy, and he's still only 29 years old. Definitely can still recover, but much different at DeGrom's age IMO.
If something happens and he blows out his elbow, poof, he would have never had the opportunity for that one mega deal, to set himself and his family up for generations. What team would commit a mega deal to a 33 year old SP like that?
In comment 14297432 ManningLobsItBurressAlone said:
Quote:
on the uniqueness of this situation.
Woe is me for an MLB player I know, but to date he's earned about $30M (after the 17M from this year). Nowhere near chump change of course, but he still hasn't had his chance to cash in as an elite starting pitcher. He'll be hitting UFA for the first time at 32, turning 33, with TJS in his past.
Yes, it's wrong to put out there that you may put a self-imposed innings limit, but he literally just watched the backfire of this to a teammate not 3 years ago. Remember the mega-deal Matt Harvey was going to get, the most pursued SP FA when he finally hit the market. Got hit with bad luck, and the injury bug, and now he's settling for one year deals in Cincy, and he's still only 29 years old. Definitely can still recover, but much different at DeGrom's age IMO.
If something happens and he blows out his elbow, poof, he would have never had the opportunity for that one mega deal, to set himself and his family up for generations. What team would commit a mega deal to a 33 year old SP like that?
It's such a unique and interesting case.
Well said which is why it's hard to criticize deGrom if he does in fact decide to limit his innings.
RE: I don’t blame deGrom for not wanting to deal with this Â
during the season. Get it done now or wait until the off season. As usual, Francesca has the exact wrong take.
Oh stop with this. It's clearly a threat to try and gain some sort of leverage by imposing a hypothetical deadline.
If the Mets offer deGrom something insane during the middle of the season, you're telling me he's going to completely ignore the offer because he's focused solely on pitching this season?! It's like a dealership with "no haggle" pricing...if I offer them $100 less than the advertised price on that BMW, does "no haggle" pricing still apply?!
the Mets current GM flat out said in July he deserved an extension or to be traded to a team that would. You can't dissect this story without acknowledging this fact.
Well said which is why it's hard to criticize deGrom if he does in fact decide to limit his innings.
But the issue here is age, not pitch count. Given his age, his arm has a relatively low number of pitches on it. Even if he maintains that ratio, he's still going to be an aging pitcher when he hits FA. It sucks for him, but I don't know why the Mets should be forced to overpay due to his age. If he was 3 years younger, this wouldn't even be an issue.
He kind of falls into Le'veon Bell territory; he's a victim of the league's pay structure for newer players.
the Mets current GM flat out said in July he deserved an extension or to be traded to a team that would. You can't dissect this story without acknowledging this fact.
but he was an agent at the time, and the current GM at the time disagreed.
I don't find that fact to be terribly relevant, since BVW as an agent has a role and as a GM has a different role.
because he lobbied for something as an agent, doesn't mean that now that he's the GM he also has to advocate for it.
I do think it probably gets done, but the Mets owe deGrom nothing.
the Mets current GM flat out said in July he deserved an extension or to be traded to a team that would. You can't dissect this story without acknowledging this fact.
but he was an agent at the time, and the current GM at the time disagreed.
I don't find that fact to be terribly relevant, since BVW as an agent has a role and as a GM has a different role.
because he lobbied for something as an agent, doesn't mean that now that he's the GM he also has to advocate for it.
I do think it probably gets done, but the Mets owe deGrom nothing.
He's not even a FA until 2021.
1. It's absolutely relevant. He's been told XYZ about his value and what he's worth and now by the SAME person he's being told otherwise.
2.Ricco and Jeff met with DeGrom in December and told him an offer was forthcoming. Now Brodie is saying they are still evaluating. It takes this long to "evaluate" what a fair offer is?
How does it work that an agent gets to become a GM and ultimately sit on both sides of the negotiating table for a team's star player.
This is bizarro world and only something the Mets could pull off.
deGrom has every right to be furious about this because of that fact alone.
But what does that matter to the situation? How differently would a non-agent GM handle this?
I don't see how BVW is an issue here. It's deGrom's late start as a pitcher that's the issue.
then why sit down and tell him an offer is coming?
2 months ago
"We'd like to see him stay here long-term," Wilpon said during an appearance with Mike Francesa on WFAN. "I'm sure there will be an offer. How long-term that is, that's up to us to figure out."
November 8th-
"I've remained steadfast there that I think he's tremendous and would love to try to keep him if it's possible," Van Wagenen said. "We'll explore that in the coming weeks."
So I find it disingenuous to say the Mets "owe him nothing"... THEY are on record saying they planned on doing X and haven't. November 8th is "many" weeks ago.
You have a MONSTER year in your role (whatever you do) your boss says "We will be making him a new offer, he's great at his job in the next few weeks we will be making an offer" and then 13 weeks pass with no offer. Who wouldn't be frustrated?
then why sit down and tell him an offer is coming?
2 months ago
"We'd like to see him stay here long-term," Wilpon said during an appearance with Mike Francesa on WFAN. "I'm sure there will be an offer. How long-term that is, that's up to us to figure out."
November 8th-
"I've remained steadfast there that I think he's tremendous and would love to try to keep him if it's possible," Van Wagenen said. "We'll explore that in the coming weeks."
So I find it disingenuous to say the Mets "owe him nothing"... THEY are on record saying they planned on doing X and haven't. November 8th is "many" weeks ago.
My guess is it's Wilpon(s), not BVW, same reason Machado isn't a Met.
At some level these guys (BVW, Alderson, etc.) HAVE to say what they say publicly to keep their jobs, and I have zero proof beyond my opinion, but I believe Wilpon(s) are to blame for things like a deGrom extension and no Machado/Harper more than BVW or whoever the GM is), my point was simply on his role change, which in this situation is very rare and his opposite goals.
it's always about the Wilpons and always will be. This is why even though he's a scumbag loser I'd still prefer Dolan owning the Mets than the Wilpons. This shouldn't be the story right now. Your best player unhappy shouldn't be what we are talking about right now.
that he's not sure if he's even 50% through with his rehab yet. Said that he thinks he'll return this year, but wants to be 100% when he returns like he was in 2015.
I don't think it's relevant because his role has changed Â
If you are negotiating to buy a car, you might say I'm only paying x for that car, that's all it's worth.
Now, when you sell that car, are you expected to only sell it for the price you paid for it because you are on record for saying that's what it's worth?
of course not. your role has changed and your goals are different and diametrically opposed.
As for Jeff and Ricco, I believe that's same old Wilpons.
And I do believe as has been speculated over the past few days/weeks/months as the free agent market has developed and the mega deals have not materialized as expected, the Mets are waiting it out to see where those contracts come in.
nothing worse than being the last guy to pay premium price for something that goes on sale.
not suggesting the Mets should go cheap on deGrom, but if Machado/Harper get contracts int he $25 range for 7 or 8 years, that impacts what the Mets would/should be expected to pay deGrom.
When people were talking 400M for those guy it inflated deGrom's value too (IMO).
to keep banging the Buchholz (or Ervin Santana) drum until one of them is signed. Walker Lockett may or may not be a big league talent but he's 25 years old and the Padres previously DFA'ed him before trading him to the Indians. Really ugly numbers the past 2 seasons. Lets pray one of Kay or Peterson come quickly but with Matz, Vargas and not exactly durable Thor/Wheeler it would REALLY behoove a wannabe contender to add another "legit" arm.
that he's not sure if he's even 50% through with his rehab yet. Said that he thinks he'll return this year, but wants to be 100% when he returns like he was in 2015.
LOL but he'll be back in May or June. That went down the toilet quickly.
that he's not sure if he's even 50% through with his rehab yet. Said that he thinks he'll return this year, but wants to be 100% when he returns like he was in 2015.
This is NOT a shot at anyone but the idea he was secretly closer than expected was silliness. It's the exact opposite approach a team trying to sell tickets would take.
it's always about the Wilpons and always will be. This is why even though he's a scumbag loser I'd still prefer Dolan owning the Mets than the Wilpons. This shouldn't be the story right now. Your best player unhappy shouldn't be what we are talking about right now.
Agree 100% about it always being about the Wilpons, though I still don't feel like deGrom is owed a LT extension two seasons before he's an eligible free agent (unless he makes it team friendly).
But I would certainly try and work something out and I think whoever is the GM is at the whim of the Wilpons.
deGrom is probably getting advice that he NEEDS to Â
sign a 6+ year deal at some astronomical number. I don't think it would be unreasonable to accept a 3 year deal now for more money. It will offer him some level of protection and still allow him the ability to make more money if he can stay healthy and productive during the contract.
Nothing exemplified this better than Harper and Machado who are both unsigned. MLB teams don't want to dedicate 5+ years to players any longer. The Mets signed Cespedes for less years-more money and they still got fucking burned!
to keep banging the Buchholz (or Ervin Santana) drum until one of them is signed. Walker Lockett may or may not be a big league talent but he's 25 years old and the Padres previously DFA'ed him before trading him to the Indians. Really ugly numbers the past 2 seasons. Lets pray one of Kay or Peterson come quickly but with Matz, Vargas and not exactly durable Thor/Wheeler it would REALLY behoove a wannabe contender to add another "legit" arm.
Buchholz is a perfect candidate for the Mets to pursue.
also won't cost much at all. In fact, toss in an inflated 2nd year option. He's "that good" and that valuable to the 2019 team then you won't regret it.
"MLB INSIDER
@MLBINSIDER_
·
20h
#Developing
Source: The #Mets are much more involved in the Bryce Harper sweepstakes then previously known. They attempted to remain a mystery team so as not to ignite a bidding war with the #Phillies, #Nats. I can now confirm they're heavily involved in discussions with Harper."
Sounds SO legit lol
MLB INSIDER
@MLBINSIDER_
·
21h
Source: With Bryce Harper still unsigned, 2 new teams have reached out to Scott Boras to see how much his price has dropped. The #Cubs and #Mets have both had discussions with Boras about Harper. Both teams are being very secretive about it, but you can't hide from the Insider.
"MLB INSIDER
@MLBINSIDER_
·
20h
#Developing
Source: The #Mets are much more involved in the Bryce Harper sweepstakes then previously known. They attempted to remain a mystery team so as not to ignite a bidding war with the #Phillies, #Nats. I can now confirm they're heavily involved in discussions with Harper."
Sounds SO legit lol
MLB INSIDER
@MLBINSIDER_
·
21h
Source: With Bryce Harper still unsigned, 2 new teams have reached out to Scott Boras to see how much his price has dropped. The #Cubs and #Mets have both had discussions with Boras about Harper. Both teams are being very secretive about it, but you can't hide from the Insider.
MLB INSIDER
@MLBINSIDER_
·
Feb 9
Before I get to some updates on Bryce Harper and Manny Machado (sorry for the tease!), I have to tell you that the popularity of this Twitter account in such short time (only started Insider tweets a few months ago) is being called UNPRECEDENTED by industry insiders. Thank you!!
He has 600 followers more than I do lol and I tweet memes lol
I just think this situation is so fucked up because of the Mets that deGrom is now looking across the table at a guy who 3-4 months ago was on his "side" in this discussion. Can you imagine how pissed off you'd be if you were deGrom?
What's more likely going on is that DeGrom and his agent realize that their are lacking leverage here. He's still under Mets control for 2 more years, and he's not going to be at a great age when he hits UFA. The UFA market looks increasingly dicey for older pitchers, and that's even assuming he gets through 2 more years healthy.
This is DeGrom's camp's way to try and create a little bit of leverage and pressure on the Mets to come to the table and do a deal. I think we'll see a deal done before the start of the season.
More interesting will be what the team does with Wheeler if he picks up where he left off last year. There's not exactly a lot of money coming off the books after 2019.
Wrong story you want over camp when vibes are mostly positive.
Ahhhh, someone gets it. Right to the heart of the issue here...
Link - ( New Window )
Woe is me for an MLB player I know, but to date he's earned about $30M (after the 17M from this year). Nowhere near chump change of course, but he still hasn't had his chance to cash in as an elite starting pitcher. He'll be hitting UFA for the first time at 32, turning 33, with TJS in his past.
Yes, it's wrong to put out there that you may put a self-imposed innings limit, but he literally just watched the backfire of this to a teammate not 3 years ago. Remember the mega-deal Matt Harvey was going to get, the most pursued SP FA when he finally hit the market. Got hit with bad luck, and the injury bug, and now he's settling for one year deals in Cincy, and he's still only 29 years old. Definitely can still recover, but much different at DeGrom's age IMO.
If something happens and he blows out his elbow, poof, he would have never had the opportunity for that one mega deal, to set himself and his family up for generations. What team would commit a mega deal to a 33 year old SP like that?
It's such a unique and interesting case.
Woe is me for an MLB player I know, but to date he's earned about $30M (after the 17M from this year). Nowhere near chump change of course, but he still hasn't had his chance to cash in as an elite starting pitcher. He'll be hitting UFA for the first time at 32, turning 33, with TJS in his past.
Yes, it's wrong to put out there that you may put a self-imposed innings limit, but he literally just watched the backfire of this to a teammate not 3 years ago. Remember the mega-deal Matt Harvey was going to get, the most pursued SP FA when he finally hit the market. Got hit with bad luck, and the injury bug, and now he's settling for one year deals in Cincy, and he's still only 29 years old. Definitely can still recover, but much different at DeGrom's age IMO.
If something happens and he blows out his elbow, poof, he would have never had the opportunity for that one mega deal, to set himself and his family up for generations. What team would commit a mega deal to a 33 year old SP like that?
It's such a unique and interesting case.
Well said which is why it's hard to criticize deGrom if he does in fact decide to limit his innings.
Oh stop with this. It's clearly a threat to try and gain some sort of leverage by imposing a hypothetical deadline.
If the Mets offer deGrom something insane during the middle of the season, you're telling me he's going to completely ignore the offer because he's focused solely on pitching this season?! It's like a dealership with "no haggle" pricing...if I offer them $100 less than the advertised price on that BMW, does "no haggle" pricing still apply?!
The agent is doing most of this work anyways.
But the issue here is age, not pitch count. Given his age, his arm has a relatively low number of pitches on it. Even if he maintains that ratio, he's still going to be an aging pitcher when he hits FA. It sucks for him, but I don't know why the Mets should be forced to overpay due to his age. If he was 3 years younger, this wouldn't even be an issue.
He kind of falls into Le'veon Bell territory; he's a victim of the league's pay structure for newer players.
How does it work that an agent gets to become a GM and ultimately sit on both sides of the negotiating table for a team's star player.
This is bizarro world and only something the Mets could pull off.
deGrom has every right to be furious about this because of that fact alone.
but he was an agent at the time, and the current GM at the time disagreed.
I don't find that fact to be terribly relevant, since BVW as an agent has a role and as a GM has a different role.
because he lobbied for something as an agent, doesn't mean that now that he's the GM he also has to advocate for it.
I do think it probably gets done, but the Mets owe deGrom nothing.
He's not even a FA until 2021.
Quote:
the Mets current GM flat out said in July he deserved an extension or to be traded to a team that would. You can't dissect this story without acknowledging this fact.
but he was an agent at the time, and the current GM at the time disagreed.
I don't find that fact to be terribly relevant, since BVW as an agent has a role and as a GM has a different role.
because he lobbied for something as an agent, doesn't mean that now that he's the GM he also has to advocate for it.
I do think it probably gets done, but the Mets owe deGrom nothing.
He's not even a FA until 2021.
1. It's absolutely relevant. He's been told XYZ about his value and what he's worth and now by the SAME person he's being told otherwise.
2.Ricco and Jeff met with DeGrom in December and told him an offer was forthcoming. Now Brodie is saying they are still evaluating. It takes this long to "evaluate" what a fair offer is?
How does it work that an agent gets to become a GM and ultimately sit on both sides of the negotiating table for a team's star player.
This is bizarro world and only something the Mets could pull off.
deGrom has every right to be furious about this because of that fact alone.
But what does that matter to the situation? How differently would a non-agent GM handle this?
I don't see how BVW is an issue here. It's deGrom's late start as a pitcher that's the issue.
2 months ago
"We'd like to see him stay here long-term," Wilpon said during an appearance with Mike Francesa on WFAN. "I'm sure there will be an offer. How long-term that is, that's up to us to figure out."
November 8th-
"I've remained steadfast there that I think he's tremendous and would love to try to keep him if it's possible," Van Wagenen said. "We'll explore that in the coming weeks."
So I find it disingenuous to say the Mets "owe him nothing"... THEY are on record saying they planned on doing X and haven't. November 8th is "many" weeks ago.
You have a MONSTER year in your role (whatever you do) your boss says "We will be making him a new offer, he's great at his job in the next few weeks we will be making an offer" and then 13 weeks pass with no offer. Who wouldn't be frustrated?
Yes, agents can be self-serving scumbags. I think almost everyone realizes this.
It's no different than a salesman who only has one goal. Once they change positions, that doesn't mean they continue to be a salesman.
2 months ago
"We'd like to see him stay here long-term," Wilpon said during an appearance with Mike Francesa on WFAN. "I'm sure there will be an offer. How long-term that is, that's up to us to figure out."
November 8th-
"I've remained steadfast there that I think he's tremendous and would love to try to keep him if it's possible," Van Wagenen said. "We'll explore that in the coming weeks."
So I find it disingenuous to say the Mets "owe him nothing"... THEY are on record saying they planned on doing X and haven't. November 8th is "many" weeks ago.
My guess is it's Wilpon(s), not BVW, same reason Machado isn't a Met.
At some level these guys (BVW, Alderson, etc.) HAVE to say what they say publicly to keep their jobs, and I have zero proof beyond my opinion, but I believe Wilpon(s) are to blame for things like a deGrom extension and no Machado/Harper more than BVW or whoever the GM is), my point was simply on his role change, which in this situation is very rare and his opposite goals.
Think of it in more simpler terms.
If you are negotiating to buy a car, you might say I'm only paying x for that car, that's all it's worth.
Now, when you sell that car, are you expected to only sell it for the price you paid for it because you are on record for saying that's what it's worth?
of course not. your role has changed and your goals are different and diametrically opposed.
As for Jeff and Ricco, I believe that's same old Wilpons.
And I do believe as has been speculated over the past few days/weeks/months as the free agent market has developed and the mega deals have not materialized as expected, the Mets are waiting it out to see where those contracts come in.
nothing worse than being the last guy to pay premium price for something that goes on sale.
not suggesting the Mets should go cheap on deGrom, but if Machado/Harper get contracts int he $25 range for 7 or 8 years, that impacts what the Mets would/should be expected to pay deGrom.
When people were talking 400M for those guy it inflated deGrom's value too (IMO).
LOL but he'll be back in May or June. That went down the toilet quickly.
This is NOT a shot at anyone but the idea he was secretly closer than expected was silliness. It's the exact opposite approach a team trying to sell tickets would take.
Matt Ehalt
@MattEhalt
·
1m
Most don't expect Yoenis back before July. All-Star break seems to be the optimistic projection.
Agree 100% about it always being about the Wilpons, though I still don't feel like deGrom is owed a LT extension two seasons before he's an eligible free agent (unless he makes it team friendly).
But I would certainly try and work something out and I think whoever is the GM is at the whim of the Wilpons.
Nothing exemplified this better than Harper and Machado who are both unsigned. MLB teams don't want to dedicate 5+ years to players any longer. The Mets signed Cespedes for less years-more money and they still got fucking burned!
Buchholz is a perfect candidate for the Mets to pursue.
What kind of deal would you see Thor signing 3 years from free agency? Something like the one Severino signed with buying out one FA year?
Did he mean Nats?
@MLBINSIDER_
·
20h
#Developing
Source: The #Mets are much more involved in the Bryce Harper sweepstakes then previously known. They attempted to remain a mystery team so as not to ignite a bidding war with the #Phillies, #Nats. I can now confirm they're heavily involved in discussions with Harper."
Sounds SO legit lol
MLB INSIDER
@MLBINSIDER_
·
21h
Source: With Bryce Harper still unsigned, 2 new teams have reached out to Scott Boras to see how much his price has dropped. The #Cubs and #Mets have both had discussions with Boras about Harper. Both teams are being very secretive about it, but you can't hide from the Insider.
Seems legit
@MLBINSIDER_
·
20h
#Developing
Source: The #Mets are much more involved in the Bryce Harper sweepstakes then previously known. They attempted to remain a mystery team so as not to ignite a bidding war with the #Phillies, #Nats. I can now confirm they're heavily involved in discussions with Harper."
Sounds SO legit lol
MLB INSIDER
@MLBINSIDER_
·
21h
Source: With Bryce Harper still unsigned, 2 new teams have reached out to Scott Boras to see how much his price has dropped. The #Cubs and #Mets have both had discussions with Boras about Harper. Both teams are being very secretive about it, but you can't hide from the Insider.
LOL, as if Boras would keep it a secret too?
@MLBINSIDER_
·
Feb 9
Before I get to some updates on Bryce Harper and Manny Machado (sorry for the tease!), I have to tell you that the popularity of this Twitter account in such short time (only started Insider tweets a few months ago) is being called UNPRECEDENTED by industry insiders. Thank you!!
He has 600 followers more than I do lol and I tweet memes lol