There are some really good players this year in the late 1st early 2nd round that are going to make big difference for there team. WR's is a premium position and one that rookies can make an impact right away. Even average WR's in FA make big bucks. Team building wise i would have a constant pipeline of WR's in the draft.
I have been watching JJ Arcega-Whiteside highlights, and man he has holes in his game, but his ability to box out the defender is something special. Eli would love this guy. Any Qb's would, but Eli loves going to the matchup and throwing it up and letting the WR make a play on the ball. He would vastly improve our redzone production that's for sure. There are going to be a lot of good players in round 2 this year.
This team has already invested a large amount of draft capital on offensive skill positions. Either learn to identify solid finds in the later rounds or grab a FA.
Is it people saying WR isn't a need or just that people are seeing bigger glaring needs elsewhere since we have Beckham and Shep? I 100% agree that WR is a need. But if I had to out it on a list of needs that'll increase our win total the most I have to put QB, RT, RG, probably C, ER, DE, LB, CB, and S above WR. The problem is we have a ton of needs.
Imo, we know the defense is in need of a huge turnover but the best way for this team to start stringing wins together is to fix that OL. We can control the ball/clock and keep our D off the field like Dalls has done recently. That is the best way to mask a lot of our issues until we can put some good drafts together to fix the D.
I have to say that I wanted Shurmur but I wasn't happy with season one. It took him too long to understand this team and personnel. And when we had Beckham I wasn't crazy how he was used especially seeing how Thielen and Diggs were used. I think he learned from his first year so I hope I see more from him with regards to our players such as Engram too.
RE: the "mysterious quad injury" - wasn't that the leg whip by the Eagles player that caused that?
Think maybe they need to start thinking of Engram as wr and les of a TE.
Between OBJ, Shepard, & Engram -those are three pretty good options. And, then there is Barkley - although I wonder what percentage of those receptions were dumpoffs.
So, I am not as concerned about the recieving corps. Three main targets, one very dangerous, one could develop into becoming more dangerous. And reliable Shepard.
I really hope that Coleman can figure things out and stick for at least another year and maybe - he could be the sceret weapon. He definitely has the speed to take the top off a defense.
by far the best receiver for Eli has been P Burress the tall WR who is big target and can let Eli throw imperfect ball but WR still comes down with it
it is strange that Giants never tried to get another similar WR for Eli
I think they tried several times with mid round picks. Do you mean a tall first rounder? If Nicks wasn’t tall enough to suit you, then NO they haven’t tried.
Yes, but he played with the injury the following week before being shut down the final four games. At the time, it sounded like it was a day-to-day injury that turned into a week-to-week injury.
fulfill his potential. But, even if he doesn't I think he can have a lot of value if he play well enough to be the 3rd wr or even 4th. That kind of speed has to be respected.
So talking about a #2 WR's blocking as his strong suit is a problem according to you?
Let's talk analytics. On a team with OBJ, SB and EE (not to mention SS) on the field with Eli at QB, you want to run the ball as often or likely more often than you pass. Especially in the NFC east in an open air stadium, a d especially in the season of playoff football in December and January.
Your "2nd receiver" should be at best your 4th target choice; otherwise you clearly over-drafted Odell, Engram, and Barkley.
So you are talking about a guy that on average would be targeted no more than 8 times per game or even less. From 70 offensive snaps to that leaves 62 of them where he's either a decoy or a blocker. Let's give him 8 targets and 8 primary decoy roles, that still leaves 54 plays where his main contribution is likely blocking. If you want to count only running plays it's still 35 (assuming 50/50 run pass balance is ideal, (when it's really not) running plays vs 16 passing plays where he is primary target or even primary decoy.
You guys thinking a WR II is a priority are making the same mistake Reese did over and over again.
RE: Eric you take criticism like a teen age girl. Â
So talking about a #2 WR's blocking as his strong suit is a problem according to you?
Let's talk analytics. On a team with OBJ, SB and EE (not to mention SS) on the field with Eli at QB, you want to run the ball as often or likely more often than you pass. Especially in the NFC east in an open air stadium, a d especially in the season of playoff football in December and January.
Your "2nd receiver" should be at best your 4th target choice; otherwise you clearly over-drafted Odell, Engram, and Barkley.
So you are talking about a guy that on average would be targeted no more than 8 times per game or even less. From 70 offensive snaps to that leaves 62 of them where he's either a decoy or a blocker. Let's give him 8 targets and 8 primary decoy roles, that still leaves 54 plays where his main contribution is likely blocking. If you want to count only running plays it's still 35 (assuming 50/50 run pass balance is ideal, (when it's really not) running plays vs 16 passing plays where he is primary target or even primary decoy.
You guys thinking a WR II is a priority are making the same mistake Reese did over and over again.
But there is a difference between having a need and being a priority.
This offense works starting with Barkley. Give him a decent OLand we have the makings of a good offense. Work off an effective play action throwing to OBJ plus Shepard and Engram and pretty average WR and this offense will score points. But, the key is a good OL and if they draft a WR high, it’ll either mean incredible value or OBJ is hurt or traded.
My needs are always my highest priorities, whatever is less than a need is always a lower priority.
In other words, needs have to be sorted by relevance. Another quality WR on this team is a much lower need IMO than having at minimum league average players at RT and OC and RG and DL and LB and FS and Lord love a Duck at QB.
Not worth getting into it with him. My article is a review of the WR position with the summary that it is a top heavy spot on the roster with a bunch of dregs after the top two guys.
Somehow this guy has turned that review into a supposed call by me that WR is the number one offseason priority for the franchise.
Spoiler alert... by the end of this series it will look like virtually every position is a priority. Why? Because this team is full of holes.
Not worth getting into it with him. My article is a review of the WR position with the summary that it is a top heavy spot on the roster with a bunch of dregs after the top two guys.
Somehow this guy has turned that review into a supposed call by me that WR is the number one offseason priority for the franchise.
Spoiler alert... by the end of this series it will look like virtually every position is a priority. Why? Because this team is full of holes.
But that's a problem in your analyses. By the definition of the term, not every position can be a "priority." The Giants have only two high draft picks and cap space for only 1 top FA. To rebuild the team properly, to even have a shot to rebuild it properly, they have to prioritize certain positions.
As for manners, frankly I expected better insight from you than a piece any number of posters here could have scribbled. When I challenged you, you doubled down with a one line quip. It might be better mannered than what I wrote, but it sure isn't reasoned dialogue, either.
And need v. Priority is semantics. Those content with the Fowler/Latimer/Sheppard triumvrate wush to ignore the modern passing game which requires speed and multiple targets to beat the good teams and advance in the playoffs. It's not a question of who "should" be the order of the options but who the defense gives you as the order of the options.
Sterling Shepard will be a UFA -- the Giants need developing talent at all positions including WR.
Additionally, the notion your 2nd WR is the 4th option in the passing progressions is comical.
On a vast majority of plays the RB is the checkdown and on a number of additional plays even if the tight end is running a route he started out chipping.
The tight end and RB might be better players, but in the pass game the point is to get most yards, and frankly the Giants checked down way too often last year.
I can see WR as a potential need, but one can be hopeful that one of these no-names steps up. I would put hopes on Latimer or Coleman of course. They are talented people and sometimes young men need to face the music and grow in age before they reach maturity. One can hope.
I will be interested when you review DEs, DBs, and safeties and your thoughts on overall priorities.
Eric, these are always one of my favorite features on the site.
This review underscores why the Giants cannot and should not trade Beckham in 2019. (2020 could make sense) Sure you could land a ton of picks but you are taking a massive cap hit on an already cap strapped team. And as Eric’s write up points out, you have no replacement for Beckham. Shepherd is not a #1 WR. And I’d argue is best suited as a #3. Trade OBJ and you can count on Saquon seeing 8 men in the box on just about every down, with no outside WR threat to make the defense pay. For the trade OBJ crowd, what’s your backup plan? Sign the aging and broken Demaryius Thomas?
Also, this is not a good offseason to trade OBJ because of the Antonio Brown situation. If you’re are team looking to land a star WR the Steelers are nearly forced to unload Brown. Why would any team give a boatload of picks for Beckham, when Brown is about to be shipped out for a discounted rate.
This team has enough needs without creating a need to get two WTs instead of one.
I wrote a piece with my thoughts on the how the WRs did in 2018.
You called it "shallow and one dimensional" because I didn't mention Sheppard's blocking.
I responded by saying "give me a break."
You then responded by saying I "take criticism like a teen age girl".
Now you are pretending to be the one who took the high road?!? You didn't offer constructive criticism ("hey Eric, you should have mentioned his value as a blocker"). You started off with insults.
You're a product of the era... an internet/social media tough guy who is used to getting away with casting insults that you would never dare do when confronting someone face-to-face.
Eric, these are always one of my favorite features on the site.
This review underscores why the Giants cannot and should not trade Beckham in 2019. (2020 could make sense) Sure you could land a ton of picks but you are taking a massive cap hit on an already cap strapped team. And as Eric’s write up points out, you have no replacement for Beckham. Shepherd is not a #1 WR. And I’d argue is best suited as a #3. Trade OBJ and you can count on Saquon seeing 8 men in the box on just about every down, with no outside WR threat to make the defense pay. For the trade OBJ crowd, what’s your backup plan? Sign the aging and broken Demaryius Thomas?
Also, this is not a good offseason to trade OBJ because of the Antonio Brown situation. If you’re are team looking to land a star WR the Steelers are nearly forced to unload Brown. Why would any team give a boatload of picks for Beckham, when Brown is about to be shipped out for a discounted rate.
This team has enough needs without creating a need to get two WTs instead of one.
Trading Beckham this offseason makes no sense unless the Giants (1) think Beckham is a huge liability in the locker room and/or (2) they receive king's ransom in return (not likely).
As you said, if you trade Beckham, who the hell plays WR for this team? Sheppard is not an outside WR, he's a slot guy. Secondly, the salary cap ramifications would be so harmful as to cast serious doubt on the competency of the new regime that just gave the guy a huge monster contract.
Eric, these are always one of my favorite features on the site.
This review underscores why the Giants cannot and should not trade Beckham in 2019. (2020 could make sense) Sure you could land a ton of picks but you are taking a massive cap hit on an already cap strapped team. And as Eric’s write up points out, you have no replacement for Beckham. Shepherd is not a #1 WR. And I’d argue is best suited as a #3. Trade OBJ and you can count on Saquon seeing 8 men in the box on just about every down, with no outside WR threat to make the defense pay. For the trade OBJ crowd, what’s your backup plan? Sign the aging and broken Demaryius Thomas?
Also, this is not a good offseason to trade OBJ because of the Antonio Brown situation. If you’re are team looking to land a star WR the Steelers are nearly forced to unload Brown. Why would any team give a boatload of picks for Beckham, when Brown is about to be shipped out for a discounted rate.
This team has enough needs without creating a need to get two WTs instead of one.
Trading Beckham this offseason makes no sense unless the Giants (1) think Beckham is a huge liability in the locker room and/or (2) they receive king's ransom in return (not likely).
As you said, if you trade Beckham, who the hell plays WR for this team? Sheppard is not an outside WR, he's a slot guy. Secondly, the salary cap ramifications would be so harmful as to cast serious doubt on the competency of the new regime that just gave the guy a huge monster contract.
Bingo!!!
You are looking at another 3-13 type season. Maybe 5-11 if you are lucky.
If you trade OBJ you might as well release Eli, cause you are going to need the cap space and you are not going to win anyway. And people can say what they want about Mara, but I have no doubt he wants to win.
except Collins are locked in. 5 win team - lost a lot of close games. Biggets issue was OLine and they played a lot better during second half of season.
There really isn't a dominant team in the league right now. There are 4-5 very good teams.
article. We are "top heavy" at WR, just as with a number of other positions. Who is there after OBJ and SS? Everybody else is a "journeymen." Shepard, Latimer, and Fowler are also UFAs.
OBJ is the only WR who can threaten teams vertically. Coleman might be able to, but it certainly isn't a given. He also has a pretty significant injury history.
Remember also that SS is a FA after this year, and may well cost too much to resign.
The fact that we likely won't use a day one or two pick on a WR doesn't mean that it isn't a need.
I have a feeling WR C. Latimer will be re-signed Â
I don't doubt the Giants draft a WR and sign some UFA's. I just don't see us making any big splashes.
I believe OBJ will be a GIANT and if healthy can have a 100-1400-8 type of year IF Eli has more time to throw. He is the only WR we have that challenges DB's deep and without him this offense is limited.
I am hopeful that maybe WR Coleman, with his speed, might finally stay healthy & develop. He has talent but for numerous reasons has never "put it together" but hey, there is always hope right? He doesn't have to be a superstar but it would be great if he upgraded WR #2 over Latimer.
So in a nutshell, maybe we take a WR in the draft and sign a UFA, but I don't see any bombshell moves.
...I'll probably regret attempting to get in the middle of your comments with Eric, but here are my thoughts:
(1) There was nothing "shallow and one dimensional" about what Eric wrote regarding WRs;
(2) And, if you disagree with what he said (or you feel he could have done a better job in discussing WRs in another context), it is certainly your right to express those views;
(3) For the most part, you express several points in this thread that I happen to agree with, and my guess is that Eric probably agrees with some of them as well;
(4) But I cannot see for the life of me why you would start off with such a harsh/negative criticism... especially lodged against the guy who owns this site, and who also happens to be extremely knowledgeable about football in general and the Giants in particular!?!
(5) There are IMO enough posters on this site who (almost reflexively) utter nasty comments because they are safely ensconced behind their computer screens;
(6) There's no need for it and I sure hope you do not sink into that hole;
(7) I look forward to your future comments, and I hope you make them a little bit more graciously.
One aspect of the WR/Engram puzzle that has to be mentioned is who after OBJ can get off the line quickly and well?
Engram is limited by his TE blocking but that's ok if he is an all around receiving TE. Im not sure he is. They got him free by play design. In a tight game and against a playoff defense he has difficulties separating quickly.
Given that every WR except OBJ and Shepard (to some extent) has difficulty getting off the line (with time vital given a barely adequate OL) im in favor of not so much a size WR as a talented off the line 3rd WR ( the kind that gets penalties from the initial pressure they put on cB).
All this matters to give space to Barkley and given that OBJ has a frequent number of games missed per year.
Relative to other needs a rapid separation WR is down the list...but it was a way that good defenses limited us last year
...I'll probably regret attempting to get in the middle of your comments with Eric, but here are my thoughts:
(1) There was nothing "shallow and one dimensional" about what Eric wrote regarding WRs;
(2) And, if you disagree with what he said (or you feel he could have done a better job in discussing WRs in another context), it is certainly your right to express those views;
(3) For the most part, you express several points in this thread that I happen to agree with, and my guess is that Eric probably agrees with some of them as well;
(4) But I cannot see for the life of me why you would start off with such a harsh/negative criticism... especially lodged against the guy who owns this site, and who also happens to be extremely knowledgeable about football in general and the Giants in particular!?!
(5) There are IMO enough posters on this site who (almost reflexively) utter nasty comments because they are safely ensconced behind their computer screens;
(6) There's no need for it and I sure hope you do not sink into that hole;
(7) I look forward to your future comments, and I hope you make them a little bit more graciously.
Thanks for the above sentiments. I went off over the top on Eric, that was my bad, and I killed any chance of dialogue about it, at least with him.
I could make the excuse that I was already soooo tired of seeing people list WR as a "need" as if this team doesn't have at least 5 needs that are greater priorities than WR. I won't bother to list those needs, they're obvious.
The tone I took, heck the actual words were bad choices - very bad choices.
Bill2 - the "need" for a WR is somewhat dependent on their ability to re-sign SS. They may not be able to or want to, but I wish they would so long as they don't overspend. But I can see them trying to unearth someone special with one of their multiple mid-late round picks.
"more was expected from Beckham, Shepard, and Latimer than a total of 154 catches and just 11 touchdown receptions." But with OBJ's injuries and over 160 catches from Saquon, EE and Ellison, perhaps it was just an indication of what the defense was giving us, namely, not much time for Eli to throw to WR's.
Tony Pauline said on his Twitter that Cincinnati will be trying to trade John Ross. Talented guy that landed in a bad spot, and maybe could be had on the cheap. Make sense as the deep threat opposite Beckham? Alternatively, I could see New England talking a shot.
is a top receiver but is their a team with shallower depth at WR?
I don't understand fans who say WR is not a need.
The giants have good starting WRs. They have a good receiving TE and decent blocking TEs.
They don’t “need” a wr like they need edge rushers and nasty LBs. You can talk about another outside guy or depth all you want but wr is not a need like other positions are. Not even close.
But he's not worth the 6, and he wont be there in the 2nd round
We're not a good football team. We have holes all over this roster.
Bennie Fowler was a starting WR on this team.
I have been watching JJ Arcega-Whiteside highlights, and man he has holes in his game, but his ability to box out the defender is something special. Eli would love this guy. Any Qb's would, but Eli loves going to the matchup and throwing it up and letting the WR make a play on the ball. He would vastly improve our redzone production that's for sure. There are going to be a lot of good players in round 2 this year.
This team has already invested a large amount of draft capital on offensive skill positions. Either learn to identify solid finds in the later rounds or grab a FA.
it is strange that Giants never tried to get another similar WR for Eli
Imo, we know the defense is in need of a huge turnover but the best way for this team to start stringing wins together is to fix that OL. We can control the ball/clock and keep our D off the field like Dalls has done recently. That is the best way to mask a lot of our issues until we can put some good drafts together to fix the D.
I have to say that I wanted Shurmur but I wasn't happy with season one. It took him too long to understand this team and personnel. And when we had Beckham I wasn't crazy how he was used especially seeing how Thielen and Diggs were used. I think he learned from his first year so I hope I see more from him with regards to our players such as Engram too.
Think maybe they need to start thinking of Engram as wr and les of a TE.
Between OBJ, Shepard, & Engram -those are three pretty good options. And, then there is Barkley - although I wonder what percentage of those receptions were dumpoffs.
So, I am not as concerned about the recieving corps. Three main targets, one very dangerous, one could develop into becoming more dangerous. And reliable Shepard.
I really hope that Coleman can figure things out and stick for at least another year and maybe - he could be the sceret weapon. He definitely has the speed to take the top off a defense.
it is strange that Giants never tried to get another similar WR for Eli
I think they tried several times with mid round picks. Do you mean a tall first rounder? If Nicks wasn’t tall enough to suit you, then NO they haven’t tried.
Let's talk analytics. On a team with OBJ, SB and EE (not to mention SS) on the field with Eli at QB, you want to run the ball as often or likely more often than you pass. Especially in the NFC east in an open air stadium, a d especially in the season of playoff football in December and January.
Your "2nd receiver" should be at best your 4th target choice; otherwise you clearly over-drafted Odell, Engram, and Barkley.
So you are talking about a guy that on average would be targeted no more than 8 times per game or even less. From 70 offensive snaps to that leaves 62 of them where he's either a decoy or a blocker. Let's give him 8 targets and 8 primary decoy roles, that still leaves 54 plays where his main contribution is likely blocking. If you want to count only running plays it's still 35 (assuming 50/50 run pass balance is ideal, (when it's really not) running plays vs 16 passing plays where he is primary target or even primary decoy.
You guys thinking a WR II is a priority are making the same mistake Reese did over and over again.
Let's talk analytics. On a team with OBJ, SB and EE (not to mention SS) on the field with Eli at QB, you want to run the ball as often or likely more often than you pass. Especially in the NFC east in an open air stadium, a d especially in the season of playoff football in December and January.
Your "2nd receiver" should be at best your 4th target choice; otherwise you clearly over-drafted Odell, Engram, and Barkley.
So you are talking about a guy that on average would be targeted no more than 8 times per game or even less. From 70 offensive snaps to that leaves 62 of them where he's either a decoy or a blocker. Let's give him 8 targets and 8 primary decoy roles, that still leaves 54 plays where his main contribution is likely blocking. If you want to count only running plays it's still 35 (assuming 50/50 run pass balance is ideal, (when it's really not) running plays vs 16 passing plays where he is primary target or even primary decoy.
You guys thinking a WR II is a priority are making the same mistake Reese did over and over again.
But there is a difference between having a need and being a priority.
In other words, needs have to be sorted by relevance. Another quality WR on this team is a much lower need IMO than having at minimum league average players at RT and OC and RG and DL and LB and FS and Lord love a Duck at QB.
It's bizarre to see it any other way IMO.
Somehow this guy has turned that review into a supposed call by me that WR is the number one offseason priority for the franchise.
Spoiler alert... by the end of this series it will look like virtually every position is a priority. Why? Because this team is full of holes.
Somehow this guy has turned that review into a supposed call by me that WR is the number one offseason priority for the franchise.
Spoiler alert... by the end of this series it will look like virtually every position is a priority. Why? Because this team is full of holes.
But that's a problem in your analyses. By the definition of the term, not every position can be a "priority." The Giants have only two high draft picks and cap space for only 1 top FA. To rebuild the team properly, to even have a shot to rebuild it properly, they have to prioritize certain positions.
As for manners, frankly I expected better insight from you than a piece any number of posters here could have scribbled. When I challenged you, you doubled down with a one line quip. It might be better mannered than what I wrote, but it sure isn't reasoned dialogue, either.
Add Engram and Barkley receiving skills...
Wrs and Dbs should be drafted every year.
I want OL fixed and whatever is needed to stop the run.
And need v. Priority is semantics. Those content with the Fowler/Latimer/Sheppard triumvrate wush to ignore the modern passing game which requires speed and multiple targets to beat the good teams and advance in the playoffs. It's not a question of who "should" be the order of the options but who the defense gives you as the order of the options.
Additionally, the notion your 2nd WR is the 4th option in the passing progressions is comical.
On a vast majority of plays the RB is the checkdown and on a number of additional plays even if the tight end is running a route he started out chipping.
The tight end and RB might be better players, but in the pass game the point is to get most yards, and frankly the Giants checked down way too often last year.
I can see WR as a potential need, but one can be hopeful that one of these no-names steps up. I would put hopes on Latimer or Coleman of course. They are talented people and sometimes young men need to face the music and grow in age before they reach maturity. One can hope.
I will be interested when you review DEs, DBs, and safeties and your thoughts on overall priorities.
This review underscores why the Giants cannot and should not trade Beckham in 2019. (2020 could make sense) Sure you could land a ton of picks but you are taking a massive cap hit on an already cap strapped team. And as Eric’s write up points out, you have no replacement for Beckham. Shepherd is not a #1 WR. And I’d argue is best suited as a #3. Trade OBJ and you can count on Saquon seeing 8 men in the box on just about every down, with no outside WR threat to make the defense pay. For the trade OBJ crowd, what’s your backup plan? Sign the aging and broken Demaryius Thomas?
Also, this is not a good offseason to trade OBJ because of the Antonio Brown situation. If you’re are team looking to land a star WR the Steelers are nearly forced to unload Brown. Why would any team give a boatload of picks for Beckham, when Brown is about to be shipped out for a discounted rate.
This team has enough needs without creating a need to get two WTs instead of one.
I wrote a piece with my thoughts on the how the WRs did in 2018.
You called it "shallow and one dimensional" because I didn't mention Sheppard's blocking.
I responded by saying "give me a break."
You then responded by saying I "take criticism like a teen age girl".
Now you are pretending to be the one who took the high road?!? You didn't offer constructive criticism ("hey Eric, you should have mentioned his value as a blocker"). You started off with insults.
You're a product of the era... an internet/social media tough guy who is used to getting away with casting insults that you would never dare do when confronting someone face-to-face.
This review underscores why the Giants cannot and should not trade Beckham in 2019. (2020 could make sense) Sure you could land a ton of picks but you are taking a massive cap hit on an already cap strapped team. And as Eric’s write up points out, you have no replacement for Beckham. Shepherd is not a #1 WR. And I’d argue is best suited as a #3. Trade OBJ and you can count on Saquon seeing 8 men in the box on just about every down, with no outside WR threat to make the defense pay. For the trade OBJ crowd, what’s your backup plan? Sign the aging and broken Demaryius Thomas?
Also, this is not a good offseason to trade OBJ because of the Antonio Brown situation. If you’re are team looking to land a star WR the Steelers are nearly forced to unload Brown. Why would any team give a boatload of picks for Beckham, when Brown is about to be shipped out for a discounted rate.
This team has enough needs without creating a need to get two WTs instead of one.
Trading Beckham this offseason makes no sense unless the Giants (1) think Beckham is a huge liability in the locker room and/or (2) they receive king's ransom in return (not likely).
As you said, if you trade Beckham, who the hell plays WR for this team? Sheppard is not an outside WR, he's a slot guy. Secondly, the salary cap ramifications would be so harmful as to cast serious doubt on the competency of the new regime that just gave the guy a huge monster contract.
Quote:
Eric, these are always one of my favorite features on the site.
This review underscores why the Giants cannot and should not trade Beckham in 2019. (2020 could make sense) Sure you could land a ton of picks but you are taking a massive cap hit on an already cap strapped team. And as Eric’s write up points out, you have no replacement for Beckham. Shepherd is not a #1 WR. And I’d argue is best suited as a #3. Trade OBJ and you can count on Saquon seeing 8 men in the box on just about every down, with no outside WR threat to make the defense pay. For the trade OBJ crowd, what’s your backup plan? Sign the aging and broken Demaryius Thomas?
Also, this is not a good offseason to trade OBJ because of the Antonio Brown situation. If you’re are team looking to land a star WR the Steelers are nearly forced to unload Brown. Why would any team give a boatload of picks for Beckham, when Brown is about to be shipped out for a discounted rate.
This team has enough needs without creating a need to get two WTs instead of one.
Trading Beckham this offseason makes no sense unless the Giants (1) think Beckham is a huge liability in the locker room and/or (2) they receive king's ransom in return (not likely).
As you said, if you trade Beckham, who the hell plays WR for this team? Sheppard is not an outside WR, he's a slot guy. Secondly, the salary cap ramifications would be so harmful as to cast serious doubt on the competency of the new regime that just gave the guy a huge monster contract.
Bingo!!!
You are looking at another 3-13 type season. Maybe 5-11 if you are lucky.
If you trade OBJ you might as well release Eli, cause you are going to need the cap space and you are not going to win anyway. And people can say what they want about Mara, but I have no doubt he wants to win.
A team with massive roster turnover, but where the vast majority of new players were on 1 year deals.
At WR the Giants have these players under contract going into the offseason:
Beckham, Shepard, Davis, Russel, Hederson and Coleman is a RFA.
For this team to compete for a championship, they'll need to be better at many areas, including WR.
A person needs braces. That same person needs a kidney transplant. Both are needs but one is obviously a priority over the other.
A team with massive roster turnover, but where the vast majority of new players were on 1 year deals.
At WR the Giants have these players under contract going into the offseason:
Beckham, Shepard, Davis, Russel, Hederson and Coleman is a RFA.
For this team to compete for a championship, they'll need to be better at many areas, including WR.
Just wait until I get started on the defense.
Can you imagine what this team would be like without Barkley and Beckham?
The Giants are a 5 win teams with ~10 starters as free agents, a bunch of regulars unsigned, and some spots with alarming depth.
They're in a bit of different bind than most teams.
Eric from BBI : Admin : 12:07 pm : link : reply
Can you imagine what this team would be like without Barkley and Beckham?
If the Giants had drafted a QB, instead of Barkley, it is quite possible they would not have won a single game this year....
There really isn't a dominant team in the league right now. There are 4-5 very good teams.
The front page? Too obvious?
BBI Home Page - ( New Window )
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the earlier positional views. I've looked and probably missing something obvious ):
The front page? Too obvious? BBI Home Page - ( New Window )
Thnks. I bookmark the Corner so I looked at the drop down menus on top (Team etc) where I thought they would be).
OBJ is the only WR who can threaten teams vertically. Coleman might be able to, but it certainly isn't a given. He also has a pretty significant injury history.
Remember also that SS is a FA after this year, and may well cost too much to resign.
The fact that we likely won't use a day one or two pick on a WR doesn't mean that it isn't a need.
I believe OBJ will be a GIANT and if healthy can have a 100-1400-8 type of year IF Eli has more time to throw. He is the only WR we have that challenges DB's deep and without him this offense is limited.
I am hopeful that maybe WR Coleman, with his speed, might finally stay healthy & develop. He has talent but for numerous reasons has never "put it together" but hey, there is always hope right? He doesn't have to be a superstar but it would be great if he upgraded WR #2 over Latimer.
So in a nutshell, maybe we take a WR in the draft and sign a UFA, but I don't see any bombshell moves.
...I'll probably regret attempting to get in the middle of your comments with Eric, but here are my thoughts:
(1) There was nothing "shallow and one dimensional" about what Eric wrote regarding WRs;
(2) And, if you disagree with what he said (or you feel he could have done a better job in discussing WRs in another context), it is certainly your right to express those views;
(3) For the most part, you express several points in this thread that I happen to agree with, and my guess is that Eric probably agrees with some of them as well;
(4) But I cannot see for the life of me why you would start off with such a harsh/negative criticism... especially lodged against the guy who owns this site, and who also happens to be extremely knowledgeable about football in general and the Giants in particular!?!
(5) There are IMO enough posters on this site who (almost reflexively) utter nasty comments because they are safely ensconced behind their computer screens;
(6) There's no need for it and I sure hope you do not sink into that hole;
(7) I look forward to your future comments, and I hope you make them a little bit more graciously.
Engram is limited by his TE blocking but that's ok if he is an all around receiving TE. Im not sure he is. They got him free by play design. In a tight game and against a playoff defense he has difficulties separating quickly.
Given that every WR except OBJ and Shepard (to some extent) has difficulty getting off the line (with time vital given a barely adequate OL) im in favor of not so much a size WR as a talented off the line 3rd WR ( the kind that gets penalties from the initial pressure they put on cB).
All this matters to give space to Barkley and given that OBJ has a frequent number of games missed per year.
Relative to other needs a rapid separation WR is down the list...but it was a way that good defenses limited us last year
...I'll probably regret attempting to get in the middle of your comments with Eric, but here are my thoughts:
(1) There was nothing "shallow and one dimensional" about what Eric wrote regarding WRs;
(2) And, if you disagree with what he said (or you feel he could have done a better job in discussing WRs in another context), it is certainly your right to express those views;
(3) For the most part, you express several points in this thread that I happen to agree with, and my guess is that Eric probably agrees with some of them as well;
(4) But I cannot see for the life of me why you would start off with such a harsh/negative criticism... especially lodged against the guy who owns this site, and who also happens to be extremely knowledgeable about football in general and the Giants in particular!?!
(5) There are IMO enough posters on this site who (almost reflexively) utter nasty comments because they are safely ensconced behind their computer screens;
(6) There's no need for it and I sure hope you do not sink into that hole;
(7) I look forward to your future comments, and I hope you make them a little bit more graciously.
Thanks for the above sentiments. I went off over the top on Eric, that was my bad, and I killed any chance of dialogue about it, at least with him.
I could make the excuse that I was already soooo tired of seeing people list WR as a "need" as if this team doesn't have at least 5 needs that are greater priorities than WR. I won't bother to list those needs, they're obvious.
The tone I took, heck the actual words were bad choices - very bad choices.
Bill2 - the "need" for a WR is somewhat dependent on their ability to re-sign SS. They may not be able to or want to, but I wish they would so long as they don't overspend. But I can see them trying to unearth someone special with one of their multiple mid-late round picks.
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is a top receiver but is their a team with shallower depth at WR?
I don't understand fans who say WR is not a need.
The giants have good starting WRs. They have a good receiving TE and decent blocking TEs.
They don’t “need” a wr like they need edge rushers and nasty LBs. You can talk about another outside guy or depth all you want but wr is not a need like other positions are. Not even close.
The giants have to focus on RT and front 7 impact or they won’t win in 2019. Simple as that. Wr can be addressed via the draft or under the radar FA.