Luis Severino's deal can max out at $52.25 million over five years. He gives up only one year of free agency -- one fewer than Aaron Nola did. If the Yankees exercise the $15 million option, Severino will hit the open market at 29 years old.
I was a bit concerned about another ugly arbitration hearing and if Severino returns to his first half form this season he'd eventually get much more than that $10 million in his future arbitration years. Great job
Hope we consider something similar with Judge when the time comes.
RE: How many more years of arbitration did Sevy have? Â
Two more. He may have cost himself some money if his performance continues to trend up but can't blame a guy for jumping at a guaranteed pay day. Good point on RAB too that Sevy was a small bonus international. So this is truly his first big pay out.
Two more. He may have cost himself some money if his performance continues to trend up but can't blame a guy for jumping at a guaranteed pay day. Good point on RAB too that Sevy was a small bonus international. So this is truly his first big pay out.
Sevy was a super 2 player so had 4 years or arbitration not 3.
RE: RE: RE: How many more years of arbitration did Sevy have? Â
Two more. He may have cost himself some money if his performance continues to trend up but can't blame a guy for jumping at a guaranteed pay day. Good point on RAB too that Sevy was a small bonus international. So this is truly his first big pay out.
Sevy was a super 2 player so had 4 years or arbitration not 3.
Ah ok, so three years remaining. Yankees bought out remaining arb years plus his first free agency year should they exercise the option in 2023
Does this help or hurt with our pursuit of Manny or Harper? Â
True he is guarding against injury, but I think he, or his agent, left a lot on the table. deGromm scored $17 Million in arbitration. Salaries are moving higher, not lower. $10 Million average and $15 Million five years from now is a bargain. Good for the Yankees to pull this off.
Severino has four. I fervently hope he throws 180 IP all four, but that's unlikely. And he'd have to take significant steps forward to be in DeGrom's territory for money, at least in terms of consistency. The Nola deal was a solid benchmark, and Nola surrendered two years of FA, Sevy just one.
and pitches well, the $15 Million five years from now will be below the average salary for a starting pitcher. Today, 2019, $10 Million goes to someone who can keep their ERA below 5.00. The 5th year option makes this contract one sided IMO.
If we are saving money on this it could mean we have another move in mind.
He would have gotten around $5 million in arbitration. Yankees aren't saving money because the AAV counts when it comes to luxury tax. It'll be around a $10 million hit on the payroll. More than what it would have been.
then about what would have made made in those years if he won arbitration?
How much above the $40 million that he'll get in those years did he leave on the table? He also left some money on the table likely by foregoing a year of free agency for $15mm.
I'm just curious how much he potentially (or realistically) left on the table to get the guaranteed payout now.
Passan still saying the Yanks are in on Machado - and there's a rumor that Harper has chosen a team. Not sure if any of this is true... but hey, why not keep going with these 2!
Passan still saying the Yanks are in on Machado - and there's a rumor that Harper has chosen a team. Not sure if any of this is true... but hey, why not keep going with these 2!
Got a link? His column earlier listed the Yankees amongst the teams that have expressed interest but he didn't say how recently unless I misread.
If this were several years ago, back in different market conditions Â
Passan still saying the Yanks are in on Machado - and there's a rumor that Harper has chosen a team. Not sure if any of this is true... but hey, why not keep going with these 2!
Got a link? His column earlier listed the Yankees amongst the teams that have expressed interest but he didn't say how recently unless I misread.
I may have read what you did - I thought somewhere in there or in the headline I grabbed it from that he said NYY were still checking in and are still in the mix. Not too newsworthy, but it does seem like the Yanks continue to be linked to Machado especially and I am thinking the longer this continues to go on, the better the odds are for us to come away with one of these guys.
I definitely don't feel like the Yanks need either of them - but if the contract demands change a bit or present an opportunity for us to swoop in and get a Machado on some sort of lesser-term, high AAV deal with option(s), I'm obviously hard-pressed to find any reason to be opposed.
where they get properly compensated for their prime years. This shit is just awful.
Why the hell do they need 10 year contracts to be considered “properly compensated”? If they’d come back to earth and accept more reasonable number of years there is no doubt they’d be getting that proper compensation annually. Why should teams be forced to hand out $30M of guaranteed money for the next decade for it to be considered proper compensation? That’s ludicrous
It's the arb years that are the issue - guys like Jacob deGrom are stuck peaking and unable to get their cut in the open market because the Mets can continue to play the arbitration game until he's like 32 years old and then just kick him to the curb without ever giving him long term money.
It winds up putting many players in a position where they are essentially slaves to their teams and their arb rulings/agreements.
It took deGrom a historic, Cy Young year to bump his number up to 17M for this year. Which is still significantly less than the best pitchers in the game on LT deals are making (i.e.. Scherzer/Verlander)
Matt Harvey is a cautionary tale for a lot of players.
It's the arb years that are the issue - guys like Jacob deGrom are stuck peaking and unable to get their cut in the open market because the Mets can continue to play the arbitration game until he's like 32 years old and then just kick him to the curb without ever giving him long term money.
It winds up putting many players in a position where they are essentially slaves to their teams and their arb rulings/agreements.
It took deGrom a historic, Cy Young year to bump his number up to 17M for this year. Which is still significantly less than the best pitchers in the game on LT deals are making (i.e.. Scherzer/Verlander)
Matt Harvey is a cautionary tale for a lot of players.
Thanks, I was just going to post this. In the past, the players were more ok with the arb years because teams were handing out dumb long-term contracts that (partially) paid for past performance. The teams wizened up and aren't doing that any more, which is smart, and their right. But now the players will want fewer arb years so that they can get paid for exceptional performance. I'm hopeful the sides can reach an agreement.
where they get properly compensated for their prime years. This shit is just awful.
Why the hell do they need 10 year contracts to be considered “properly compensated”? If they’d come back to earth and accept more reasonable number of years there is no doubt they’d be getting that proper compensation annually. Why should teams be forced to hand out $30M of guaranteed money for the next decade for it to be considered proper compensation? That’s ludicrous
Who said anything about 10 year contracts?
Since owners are no longer allowed to look the other way with PEDs, the prime years are between 24-31. the MLBPA better be fighting hard to ensure the next CBA makes sure owners are getting those years for a song. What Severino is making through age 30 is far below market value should he merely sustain his current level.
If advanced stats are all the craze then how about franchises paying in relation to the player's WAR?
where they get properly compensated for their prime years. This shit is just awful.
Why the hell do they need 10 year contracts to be considered “properly compensated”? If they’d come back to earth and accept more reasonable number of years there is no doubt they’d be getting that proper compensation annually. Why should teams be forced to hand out $30M of guaranteed money for the next decade for it to be considered proper compensation? That’s ludicrous
People forget that they are not 9-5 workers- they are entertainers- and entertainers who are not replaceable. As such, they ARE the product. No one is paying money to see the Yanks front office take the field- they are there to see the best baseball players in the world.
To make it even more simple- no star players, no fans. The owners tried that once with the scab players- fans were not willing to pay ML money for guys who were not ML quality.
Since the players make owners the money, owners need to share the money with them. After all, if front office brilliance was what fans cared about, the Rays would lead the league in attendance. No, fans pay a TON to see the Yanks because the Yanks spend the money to get the best players they can get (though not getting Machado seems strange- not going after Harper I can understand- his ego wouldn't make it through the clubhouse door).
Remember that most owners don't do anything to make extra $$$- they let TV revenues pour in, negotiate sweetheart deals with Regional Sports Networks (who don't care about the cost because they get the cable companies to pay for it in fees- don't believe me, look at your cable bill) and by fans going to the game.
Players make that money because fans and TV won't pay for non-MLB players. Thus, they have as much, if not more right to the majority of that money than the owners do.
The Yanks and Red Sox get a small pass because they do spend a lot on payroll- in contrast to about 15 teams that just live off the other 15 teams.
For Harper, Machado and the other big FA, THEY make the money for their teams. Fans come to see the STARS. It is a crime that owners are hoarding the money they make on the players when most owners haven't done a thing to earn it.
That is why not giving Harper and Machado $30M+ over 10 years is wrong- those contracts pay for themselves for many teams- not sure it is right with the Yanks and Red Sox- they have many stars and one more big name probably doesn't move the needle much there. But in Chicago, Philly, etc- there is no reason not to give it to them.
or Machado getting $30-$35 mill per. They are worth it. You are correct the players, especially the stars are what the fans come to the park for. When I was a kid, we'd get my mother to take us on a school night to see Reggie Jackson and Vida Blue.
But I just cannot go for the 10 years. 6-8 yrs, no problem. Even a higher AAV than $35 mill for that 6-8 years.
What the teams are doing isn't capitalism, it's a state-sanctioned (often subsidized) cartel. Downside risk is minimal. To my knowledge, when you factor in capital appreciation no team in the four major sports has lost money over a five year period in twenty years. Revenue distribution to players in the 48-52% range would be consistent with the other major sports. Now it's tricky to value because the teams themselves often seem minimally profitable. But the entities that control them, which can include RSNs, concessionaires, and other revenue streams, virtually always are.
Do many NHL, NBA or NFL players receiver 10 year deals? Â
MLB owners have plenty of risks and costs. There is no guarantee for them. Maybe fan interest takes a dive. Revenue goes south. Various costs spiral from lodging to insurance.Its tough running a biz
Owners employ lots both players and non-players Does the NBA, NFL and the NHL have the cost of an extensive minor league ??
Owners are doing what the players do; make as much as possible. But owners employ lots and lots of people. Owners contribute and reinvest in the team.
RE: Do many NHL, NBA or NFL players receiver 10 year deals? Â
MLB owners have plenty of risks and costs. There is no guarantee for them. Maybe fan interest takes a dive. Revenue goes south. Various costs spiral from lodging to insurance.Its tough running a biz
Owners employ lots both players and non-players Does the NBA, NFL and the NHL have the cost of an extensive minor league ??
Owners are doing what the players do; make as much as possible. But owners employ lots and lots of people. Owners contribute and reinvest in the team.
If this were true, you would have a small point.
However, the reality is that most minor league teams are independently owned. The Yanks and a handful of other larger market teams have purchased affiliates.
Furthermore, you undermine your own case by citing to the minor leagues. The minor leagues are currently in the middle of a class action lawsuit alleging that the players do not earn a living wage and in fact, make less than minimum wage for the time they spend doing team activities.
In other words, the people the fans pay to see- the players- are once again getting taken advantage of by the owners.
There are costs to running a team- but there are NO unprofitable teams. In fact, TV revenue has spiked massively in the past decade, while most team payrolls have not matched the rise. Some teams have built stadiums (and have mortgage and interest payments), but many stadiums were built with a heavy does of public funding.
Teams like the Red Sox, nats and Yanks spend heavily to try and win. They invest in star players- but the short-sightedness of the small market owners- who demanded luxury tax limits and IFA/draft hard spending caps- do not spend on those players and often let them go in FA.
Finally, the team owners are generally independently wealthy and do not rely on the team for income. Ironically, the Yanks are one of the few teams that the family owning the team make most of their money from the team.
The Pollads (billionaires) own the Twins. The Ricketts (outside family business) own the Cubs. Even the Royals are owned by a former WalMart CEO (who bought the team for $96M). The Marlins may have Jeter as the face of the franchise, but the owner who put the real money into the team is a billionaire money management company owner.
The Yanks happily run a $200M+ payroll without much effort. They spend on stars because that's what fans pay the big money for.
Teams like the Twins and Marlins rarely exceed $100M with payroll, and even if you add in the additional costs to run a team, still turn a profit before you even consider the revenue sharing and TV/licensing money they get from MLB.
That money should go to the players, not the hangers-on making a living off other people's work.
If the players go on strike, even if the owners wanted to run scabs out there, people would not pay ML to see them. People don't want to see the front office on the field. They want the best players and a winning team. Pay the players and they will come.
Let the players start their own league if the owners are a net zero Â
Breakdown of Luis Severino's deal, per source:
2019: $4M+$2M bonus
2020: $10M
2021: $10.25M
2022: $11M
2023 (club option): $15M with $2.75M buyout
Interesting part of that: higher salaries in '20 and '21, lower than usual in '22. Why? Protection against a work stoppage.
Awesome.
That was just Levine running his mouth. He seems to have been sidelined now. Don't hear much out of him.
Hope we consider something similar with Judge when the time comes.
Four including this year. So he gave up just one year of free agency. Assuming Yankees pick up the 5th year option, he will become a free agent at 29.
Two more. He may have cost himself some money if his performance continues to trend up but can't blame a guy for jumping at a guaranteed pay day. Good point on RAB too that Sevy was a small bonus international. So this is truly his first big pay out.
Quote:
.
Two more. He may have cost himself some money if his performance continues to trend up but can't blame a guy for jumping at a guaranteed pay day. Good point on RAB too that Sevy was a small bonus international. So this is truly his first big pay out.
Sevy was a super 2 player so had 4 years or arbitration not 3.
Quote:
In comment 14297478 figgy2989 said:
Quote:
.
Two more. He may have cost himself some money if his performance continues to trend up but can't blame a guy for jumping at a guaranteed pay day. Good point on RAB too that Sevy was a small bonus international. So this is truly his first big pay out.
Sevy was a super 2 player so had 4 years or arbitration not 3.
Ah ok, so three years remaining. Yankees bought out remaining arb years plus his first free agency year should they exercise the option in 2023
Bingo! Exactly.
He would have gotten around $5 million in arbitration. Yankees aren't saving money because the AAV counts when it comes to luxury tax. It'll be around a $10 million hit on the payroll. More than what it would have been.
How much above the $40 million that he'll get in those years did he leave on the table? He also left some money on the table likely by foregoing a year of free agency for $15mm.
I'm just curious how much he potentially (or realistically) left on the table to get the guaranteed payout now.
...the first half of 2018, then the Yanks got an amazing deal.
If Severino turns out to be the pitcher of the second half of 2018, well, maybe then it's not such a great deal.
Will the real Luis Severino please standup. Please stand up.
...the first half of 2018, then the Yanks got an amazing deal.
If Severino turns out to be the pitcher of the second half of 2018, well, maybe then it's not such a great deal.
Will the real Luis Severino please standup. Please stand up.
Well if he's a mixture, it's still a good deal. I think probability wise, we got a good deal.
Got a link? His column earlier listed the Yankees amongst the teams that have expressed interest but he didn't say how recently unless I misread.
Def a great deal
Quote:
Passan still saying the Yanks are in on Machado - and there's a rumor that Harper has chosen a team. Not sure if any of this is true... but hey, why not keep going with these 2!
Got a link? His column earlier listed the Yankees amongst the teams that have expressed interest but he didn't say how recently unless I misread.
I may have read what you did - I thought somewhere in there or in the headline I grabbed it from that he said NYY were still checking in and are still in the mix. Not too newsworthy, but it does seem like the Yanks continue to be linked to Machado especially and I am thinking the longer this continues to go on, the better the odds are for us to come away with one of these guys.
I definitely don't feel like the Yanks need either of them - but if the contract demands change a bit or present an opportunity for us to swoop in and get a Machado on some sort of lesser-term, high AAV deal with option(s), I'm obviously hard-pressed to find any reason to be opposed.
Why the hell do they need 10 year contracts to be considered “properly compensated”? If they’d come back to earth and accept more reasonable number of years there is no doubt they’d be getting that proper compensation annually. Why should teams be forced to hand out $30M of guaranteed money for the next decade for it to be considered proper compensation? That’s ludicrous
It winds up putting many players in a position where they are essentially slaves to their teams and their arb rulings/agreements.
It took deGrom a historic, Cy Young year to bump his number up to 17M for this year. Which is still significantly less than the best pitchers in the game on LT deals are making (i.e.. Scherzer/Verlander)
Matt Harvey is a cautionary tale for a lot of players.
It winds up putting many players in a position where they are essentially slaves to their teams and their arb rulings/agreements.
It took deGrom a historic, Cy Young year to bump his number up to 17M for this year. Which is still significantly less than the best pitchers in the game on LT deals are making (i.e.. Scherzer/Verlander)
Matt Harvey is a cautionary tale for a lot of players.
Thanks, I was just going to post this. In the past, the players were more ok with the arb years because teams were handing out dumb long-term contracts that (partially) paid for past performance. The teams wizened up and aren't doing that any more, which is smart, and their right. But now the players will want fewer arb years so that they can get paid for exceptional performance. I'm hopeful the sides can reach an agreement.
Quote:
where they get properly compensated for their prime years. This shit is just awful.
Why the hell do they need 10 year contracts to be considered “properly compensated”? If they’d come back to earth and accept more reasonable number of years there is no doubt they’d be getting that proper compensation annually. Why should teams be forced to hand out $30M of guaranteed money for the next decade for it to be considered proper compensation? That’s ludicrous
Who said anything about 10 year contracts?
Since owners are no longer allowed to look the other way with PEDs, the prime years are between 24-31. the MLBPA better be fighting hard to ensure the next CBA makes sure owners are getting those years for a song. What Severino is making through age 30 is far below market value should he merely sustain his current level.
If advanced stats are all the craze then how about franchises paying in relation to the player's WAR?
Quote:
where they get properly compensated for their prime years. This shit is just awful.
Why the hell do they need 10 year contracts to be considered “properly compensated”? If they’d come back to earth and accept more reasonable number of years there is no doubt they’d be getting that proper compensation annually. Why should teams be forced to hand out $30M of guaranteed money for the next decade for it to be considered proper compensation? That’s ludicrous
People forget that they are not 9-5 workers- they are entertainers- and entertainers who are not replaceable. As such, they ARE the product. No one is paying money to see the Yanks front office take the field- they are there to see the best baseball players in the world.
To make it even more simple- no star players, no fans. The owners tried that once with the scab players- fans were not willing to pay ML money for guys who were not ML quality.
Since the players make owners the money, owners need to share the money with them. After all, if front office brilliance was what fans cared about, the Rays would lead the league in attendance. No, fans pay a TON to see the Yanks because the Yanks spend the money to get the best players they can get (though not getting Machado seems strange- not going after Harper I can understand- his ego wouldn't make it through the clubhouse door).
Remember that most owners don't do anything to make extra $$$- they let TV revenues pour in, negotiate sweetheart deals with Regional Sports Networks (who don't care about the cost because they get the cable companies to pay for it in fees- don't believe me, look at your cable bill) and by fans going to the game.
Players make that money because fans and TV won't pay for non-MLB players. Thus, they have as much, if not more right to the majority of that money than the owners do.
The Yanks and Red Sox get a small pass because they do spend a lot on payroll- in contrast to about 15 teams that just live off the other 15 teams.
For Harper, Machado and the other big FA, THEY make the money for their teams. Fans come to see the STARS. It is a crime that owners are hoarding the money they make on the players when most owners haven't done a thing to earn it.
That is why not giving Harper and Machado $30M+ over 10 years is wrong- those contracts pay for themselves for many teams- not sure it is right with the Yanks and Red Sox- they have many stars and one more big name probably doesn't move the needle much there. But in Chicago, Philly, etc- there is no reason not to give it to them.
As for the other noise in this thread, I honestly don't care at all where the unsigned FA Megastars sign and how much they sign for.
This years Yankee team will be a strong contender for a championship as currently constructed.
But I just cannot go for the 10 years. 6-8 yrs, no problem. Even a higher AAV than $35 mill for that 6-8 years.
Owners employ lots both players and non-players Does the NBA, NFL and the NHL have the cost of an extensive minor league ??
Owners are doing what the players do; make as much as possible. But owners employ lots and lots of people. Owners contribute and reinvest in the team.
Owners employ lots both players and non-players Does the NBA, NFL and the NHL have the cost of an extensive minor league ??
Owners are doing what the players do; make as much as possible. But owners employ lots and lots of people. Owners contribute and reinvest in the team.
If this were true, you would have a small point.
However, the reality is that most minor league teams are independently owned. The Yanks and a handful of other larger market teams have purchased affiliates.
Furthermore, you undermine your own case by citing to the minor leagues. The minor leagues are currently in the middle of a class action lawsuit alleging that the players do not earn a living wage and in fact, make less than minimum wage for the time they spend doing team activities.
In other words, the people the fans pay to see- the players- are once again getting taken advantage of by the owners.
There are costs to running a team- but there are NO unprofitable teams. In fact, TV revenue has spiked massively in the past decade, while most team payrolls have not matched the rise. Some teams have built stadiums (and have mortgage and interest payments), but many stadiums were built with a heavy does of public funding.
Teams like the Red Sox, nats and Yanks spend heavily to try and win. They invest in star players- but the short-sightedness of the small market owners- who demanded luxury tax limits and IFA/draft hard spending caps- do not spend on those players and often let them go in FA.
Finally, the team owners are generally independently wealthy and do not rely on the team for income. Ironically, the Yanks are one of the few teams that the family owning the team make most of their money from the team.
The Pollads (billionaires) own the Twins. The Ricketts (outside family business) own the Cubs. Even the Royals are owned by a former WalMart CEO (who bought the team for $96M). The Marlins may have Jeter as the face of the franchise, but the owner who put the real money into the team is a billionaire money management company owner.
The Yanks happily run a $200M+ payroll without much effort. They spend on stars because that's what fans pay the big money for.
Teams like the Twins and Marlins rarely exceed $100M with payroll, and even if you add in the additional costs to run a team, still turn a profit before you even consider the revenue sharing and TV/licensing money they get from MLB.
That money should go to the players, not the hangers-on making a living off other people's work.
If the players go on strike, even if the owners wanted to run scabs out there, people would not pay ML to see them. People don't want to see the front office on the field. They want the best players and a winning team. Pay the players and they will come.