Patricia Traina (@Patricia_Traina)
2/16/19, 1:27 PM
NFL Franchise/transition tag window opens up Tuesday. Would think by then we should know the new cap figure and possibly the comp picks
Leonard NYDN: Here's what you need to know about Landon Collins and the options the Giants have this offseason with their defensive leader
“Tuesday is the first day NFL teams can place the franchise tag on one designated player. Collins, 25, a three-time Pro Bowler and 2016 first-team All Pro, is due to become an unrestricted free agent on March 13. But he never will get to that point.
The Giants are expected to franchise tag Collins between Tuesday and the March 5 deadline if they do not agree to a long-term extension before then.
Collins will end up with a one-year contract offer of around $11.5-to-$11.75 million if he gets the tag, per overthecap.com. And it would protect the Giants’ rights to Collins as they continued to negotiate a potential long-term contract, though Collins also could sign the tag offer and play on the one-year deal.”
“If the Giants do place the franchise tag on Collins, the salary would count immediately against the 2019 salary cap as the team approaches free agency. So while the Giants’ cap space shows at $28.2 million at the moment on overthecap.com, that number would shrink to $16.45-to-$16.7 mil.”
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Are the Giants trying to win this season, or are they quietly tanking for another low pick next year?
We had 44M in dead money last season.....at this moment, we only have 10M....if you start cutting the high priced guys, that can easily escalate into the high 30's....
To tank or not to tank, that is the question....not to mention, what another losing season could have on the present players....
what a sham the last two seasons....
Wouldn't even franchise him....make a fair offer and that's it....
Are the Giants trying to win this season, or are they quietly tanking for another low pick next year?
We had 44M in dead money last season.....at this moment, we only have 10M....if you start cutting the high priced guys, that can easily escalate into the high 30's....
To tank or not to tank, that is the question....not to mention, what another losing season could have on the present players....
The Giants can still win in 19 without Vernon. I know he’s paid like Von Miller but he’s a mediocre ER at best.
Ellison and Vernon are no brainer cuts. Hopefully some idiot GM will bite on a trade.
With Collins you have to think he gets tagged or we overpay one of the other safeties in FA as Saftey is a hole with Collins.
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depends on one thing.....
Are the Giants trying to win this season, or are they quietly tanking for another low pick next year?
We had 44M in dead money last season.....at this moment, we only have 10M....if you start cutting the high priced guys, that can easily escalate into the high 30's....
To tank or not to tank, that is the question....not to mention, what another losing season could have on the present players....
The Giants can still win in 19 without Vernon. I know he’s paid like Von Miller but he’s a mediocre ER at best.
Ellison and Vernon are no brainer cuts. Hopefully some idiot GM will bite on a trade.
Keeping or cutting Vernon will have little to no impact on our success next year. He can easily be replaced via free agency or the draft or retained and be a serviceable edge rusher.
what a sham the last two seasons....
Wouldn't even franchise him....make a fair offer and that's it....
Eh smart move is to franchise him and let him play on the tag. If we see more if the last two years we just let him walk and get possibly a 3rd or 4th round comp pick
I mean, if he was signed to a big deal by another team we could end up with a #3 compensatory pick for him, assuming we don't sign any comparable UFA's.
I think Landon is worth keeping, but not for the huge money he is likely to get from someone if a UFA.
With the TT, the onus is on LC to determine his market value. It forces him to prove that he is healthy coming off a 6 week rehab on his shoulder surgery. No team will commit to a deal unless he can pass a physical. If he passes the physical and signs an offer sheet, then the Giants have the right to match. It forces LC and the other teams to do the negotiating for the Giants. If he gets the moon, then we wouldn't have signed him anyway.
We often feel desperate because we don't have an abundance of impact players; re-signing JPP was one example. I'd rather get a ton of comp picks like NE does and keep churning the roster while keeping cap flexibility. Accept losing for a few more years but create a roster that has long term staying power.
With the TT, the onus is on LC to determine his market value. It forces him to prove that he is healthy coming off a 6 week rehab on his shoulder surgery. No team will commit to a deal unless he can pass a physical. If he passes the physical and signs an offer sheet, then the Giants have the right to match. It forces LC and the other teams to do the negotiating for the Giants. If he gets the moon, then we wouldn't have signed him anyway.
I largely agree, but is it true the Giants renounce a comp pick if he signs elsewhere?
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With the FT, he is restricted, but the onus is on the Giants to offer a market-rate deal for a long term extension. LC will not have the ability to gauge the market so he will be steadfast in his perceived market value which I assume will be higher than what the Giants want to commit to for a player with such limitations.
With the TT, the onus is on LC to determine his market value. It forces him to prove that he is healthy coming off a 6 week rehab on his shoulder surgery. No team will commit to a deal unless he can pass a physical. If he passes the physical and signs an offer sheet, then the Giants have the right to match. It forces LC and the other teams to do the negotiating for the Giants. If he gets the moon, then we wouldn't have signed him anyway.
I largely agree, but is it true the Giants renounce a comp pick if he signs elsewhere?
The type of tag doesn't impact the comp pick formula. There is no guarantee that we will get a 3rd round comp pick for LC if he signs elsewhere. We very well might offset his contract with a FA RT signing.
With the TT, the onus is on LC to determine his market value. It forces him to prove that he is healthy coming off a 6 week rehab on his shoulder surgery. No team will commit to a deal unless he can pass a physical. If he passes the physical and signs an offer sheet, then the Giants have the right to match. It forces LC and the other teams to do the negotiating for the Giants. If he gets the moon, then we wouldn't have signed him anyway.
You seem to know more than me with respect to the nuances of the CBA but if we TT him and let him go we forfeit any comp pick we would have gotten for him, correct? That alone makes the TT an awful choice unless we really want to resign him. If we want to resign him then your senario is fine. If we are willing to let him go then no way do I want to forfeit a comp pick for him.
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With the FT, a player can be signed by another team and the Giants would receive 2 first round picks for compensation in the coming draft. Obviously, no one is giving up 2 first round picks for LC. With the TT, a player can be signed by another team and if the Giants don't match, then there is no compensation picks.
But those compensation picks should not be confused with compensatory picks for free agents that leave. Compensatory picks would be in next year's draft and are based on the net addition/loss of free agents.
Linked below is article from Patricia back in December where she explains reasoning for the TT.
Why the Giants should use the Transition Tag on Collins - ( New Window )
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In the past, transition tagged players qualified for the compensatory formula. See Steve Hutchinson in 2007, who qualified in favor of Seattle despite being transition tagged and lost to Minnesota as part of the infamous “poison pill” incident in which the Seahawks retaliated by signing RFA Nate Burleson to a similar “poison pill” offer sheet. However, in 2016 the NFL and NFLPA agreed to change this rule, and now transition tagged players should no longer qualify. That year, this allowed Buffalo to get a 4th round comp pick for Da’Norris Searcy by removing Charles Clay (signed on a transition tag offer sheet from Miami) from the compensatory formula. As part of the agreement, 33 comp picks were awarded in 2016 instead of the standard 32.
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Interesting. Thanks for finding the link. I'm not sure then as I found in another article that disputes the compensation/compensatory pick.
This is the tactic the Dolphins deployed with tight end Charles Clay in 2015 and defensive end Olivier Vernon in 2016.
Clay received an offer sheet from the Bills that the Dolphins knew they weren’t going to be able to match, so they pulled the transition tag, making Clay completely free to sign with Buffalo. The following year, the Dolphins received a compensatory draft pick for having lost Clay.
They did the same thing with Vernon, the exception being that Vernon hadn’t signed an offer sheet before his tag was pulled. The Dolphins instead signed Mario Williams and removed the transition tag from Vernon, making him a fully unrestricted free agent. The following year, they also got a high compensatory draft pick for having lost Vernon.
The Giants can deploy this same tactic with Collins. If the safety goes out and signs an offer sheet from another team, the Giants can opt to match it, which means the rights to Collins’ services revert back to the Giants.
But if the Giants see the offer sheet and decide they’re not going to match it, they can rescind the transition tag from the safety, as per Article 10, Section 4(a) of the current Collective Bargaining Agreement thereby making Collins a fully unrestricted free agent while also freeing up $8.966 million projected cost of the transition tag and putting themselves in an excellent position to get a high compensatory draft pick in 2020.
With the FT, a player can be signed by another team and the Giants would receive 2 first round picks for compensation in the coming draft. Obviously, no one is giving up 2 first round picks for LC. With the TT, a player can be signed by another team and if the Giants don't match, then there is no compensation picks.
But those compensation picks should not be confused with compensatory picks for free agents that leave. Compensatory picks would be in next year's draft and are based on the net addition/loss of free agents.
Linked below is article from Patricia back in December where she explains reasoning for the TT. Why the Giants should use the Transition Tag on Collins - ( New Window )
I was not confusing compensation picks with compensatory picks. I just didn't know if TTed players count toward the compensatory pick formula. Since they do then, yes, they should TT Collins.
As for FS, I like the idea of signing Texans CB Kareem Jackson and moving him to FS. Jackson switched to FS last year and had a great year. Also plays CB and slot - has that versatility Bettcher wants. But it's hard to imagine the Giants signing both Jackson and Collins to big $$$ deals.
As for FS, I like the idea of signing Texans CB Kareem Jackson and moving him to FS. Jackson switched to FS last year and had a great year. Also plays CB and slot - has that versatility Bettcher wants. But it's hard to imagine the Giants signing both Jackson and Collins to big $$$ deals.
How do we know that was the price to unload him?
Thanks DD -- that is exactly I was confused about.