The writers were rumored to be considering writing him off the show? Maybe he orchestrated this whole thing to generate pity which might have swayed the writers to take a different direction with his character?
when they mentioned they had two people in for questioning from Africa and I wondered why a foreigner would be spewing crap about MAGA
Yeah, that didn't make sense. When they made the arrests, there were reports that they were investigating him having some involvement, and the police department refuted that. But it certainly seemed weird that the suspects would have assaulted someone the way he'd described.
I haven't the followed the story and don't know the actor from anything i watch, but the story sounded odd. The attackers sounded like they used dialogue out of bad movie. It's also odd that a couple of racist would be so knowledgeable of Empire State that they recognize him and know his character's story.
On the other hand, who would be that insanely stupid to make this up.
There was a sizeable proportion of people that felt like this was real. If this story didn't raise your bullshit flag I don't know how you make it through life. Maybe you want to subconsciously believe it to be the case for "ammo" idk. But time and time again these far fetched attacks turn out to be hoaxs from the girl who etched B into her head to the kid with the noose on campus.
There was a sizeable proportion of people that felt like this was real. If this story didn't raise your bullshit flag I don't know how you make it through life. Maybe you want to subconsciously believe it to be the case for "ammo" idk. But time and time again these far fetched attacks turn out to be hoaxs from the girl who etched B into her head to the kid with the noose on campus.
There was a sizeable proportion of people that felt like this was real. If this story didn't raise your bullshit flag I don't know how you make it through life. Maybe you want to subconsciously believe it to be the case for "ammo" idk. But time and time again these far fetched attacks turn out to be hoaxs from the girl who etched B into her head to the kid with the noose on campus.
somebody would shoot his career in the foot by staging a fake racist/homophobic attack. When I saw the picture of the two guys that supposedly attacked him, the bullshit meter went full tilt. Those two guys would have ripped him apart, big dudes. The rope around the neck thing was double weird. I think anyone in that position would have pulled that off immediately, not let it linger there.
I haven't the followed the story and don't know the actor from anything i watch, but the story sounded odd. The attackers sounded like they used dialogue out of bad movie. It's also odd that a couple of racist would be so knowledgeable of Empire State that they recognize him and know his character's story.
On the other hand, who would be that insanely stupid to make this up.
The story sounded suspect from the start - but I absolutely hate to call BS on something that could have been a horrible experience for someone unless I'm sure it's BS.
That said, if it's true that he orchestrated this and actually had a hand in it, he should be tried for the exact crimes he's accused his attackers of.
This is how we erase progress. With stunts like these.
Again, I am going to reserve judgement until we have more facts because I'd hate to really go in on criticizing the guy if he really was attacked. But, it's not sounding good for him right now and if he had anything to do with fabricating/making this entire thing up, shame on him. Really despicable and could have had innocent people dealing with legal pitfalls.
Was complete bullshit from the beginning. It just wasn’t plausible and his actions revealed it was false.
This guy should be made an example of to stop these false claims. It’s hurt police and the real victims of crime. Deserves to be charged to the full extent of the law.
The really sad part about all of this is that it Â
somebody would shoot his career in the foot by staging a fake racist/homophobic attack. When I saw the picture of the two guys that supposedly attacked him, the bullshit meter went full tilt. Those two guys would have ripped him apart, big dudes. The rope around the neck thing was double weird. I think anyone in that position would have pulled that off immediately, not let it linger there.
Just WTF was he thinking this would accomplish.
I read a rumor somewhere that he was going to be written off the show, and hinted that may have been the motive.
The show runners quickly denied that, but who knows.
somebody would shoot his career in the foot by staging a fake racist/homophobic attack. When I saw the picture of the two guys that supposedly attacked him, the bullshit meter went full tilt. Those two guys would have ripped him apart, big dudes. The rope around the neck thing was double weird. I think anyone in that position would have pulled that off immediately, not let it linger there.
Just WTF was he thinking this would accomplish.
The two guys were extras on the show he is on.
RE: The really sad part about all of this is that it Â
made it harder for every victim of a hate crime to report.
Yes - that's why this is truly terrible if he really did orchestrate this. Because now it has a trickle down effect where hate crime victims are going to be more apprehensive about coming forward in fear they'll be doubted, or even chastised.
Smollet did a really terrible disservice to progress in this country if he made this up. Disgusting.
I almost forgot about that one ... I lived in Wappingers at that time and what that crud did was criminal ... but he was and still is an untouchable ...
to post on the previous thread when it was deleted while I was typing. Sad to see so many people here and in general were stupid enough or agenda driven to uncritically believe that story. The story was full of holes. At the very least suspend judgement until more facts come in was what I was going to say.
with something like this is now when it really happens (and there will be shit like this that happens) it will get scrutinized more and people will push the real victim for proof and they'll be questioned perhaps unfairly.
the damage done by this and acts like it, regardless of the particulars, is far-reaching.
everything will be a hoax now, until it's not.
this guy should be prosecuted - in a massive way - if they do in fact prove it was a hoax like many people suspected from the beginning and I'm pretty sure the attacks on people who suspected it was a hoax won't be apologized for or retracted.
with something like this is now when it really happens (and there will be shit like this that happens) it will get scrutinized more and people will push the real victim for proof and they'll be questioned perhaps unfairly.
the damage done by this and acts like it, regardless of the particulars, is far-reaching.
everything will be a hoax now, until it's not.
this guy should be prosecuted - in a massive way - if they do in fact prove it was a hoax like many people suspected from the beginning and I'm pretty sure the attacks on people who suspected it was a hoax won't be apologized for or retracted.
I am really anxious to see if there are on consequences to him and the extent of the consequences.
We weren't divided enough to begin with as a country.... Â
In comment 14298681 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
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In comment 14298651 section125 said:
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somebody would shoot his career in the foot by staging a fake racist/homophobic attack. When I saw the picture of the two guys that supposedly attacked him, the bullshit meter went full tilt. Those two guys would have ripped him apart, big dudes. The rope around the neck thing was double weird. I think anyone in that position would have pulled that off immediately, not let it linger there.
Just WTF was he thinking this would accomplish.
The two guys were extras on the show he is on.
Not only extras, but he worked out with those guys at the gym....
2:00 am, in Chicago. It's -20 degrees out. I think I'll go to Subway for a sandwich. I get my sandwich, and I'll be attacked by two racist guys who recognize me, and who also just happen to be out walking around. Carrying rope. And bleach. And they'll beat me for awhile, yell racist stuff, you know like "This is MAGA country!!",
Then, I'll go back to my place, with the little piece of rope still around my neck, and still holding my Subway sandwich. Then I'll report it to the cops, who probably will believe me and won't do any further investigation. Yeah. It'll work.
If it is true that this was all fabricated, then he and his accomplices need to spend a little time behind bars for recklessly endangering others. We live in a time where real events like this enrage people to the point that they riot, loot, destroy property, and in some cases harm others.
This could have ended very badly because someone was looking for attention, and doing so by trying to demonize others who's political view differ from their's.
2:00 am, in Chicago. It's -20 degrees out. I think I'll go to Subway for a sandwich. I get my sandwich, and I'll be attacked by two racist guys who recognize me, and who also just happen to be out walking around. Carrying rope. And bleach. And they'll beat me for awhile, yell racist stuff, you know like "This is MAGA country!!",
Then, I'll go back to my place, with the little piece of rope still around my neck, and still holding my Subway sandwich. Then I'll report it to the cops, who probably will believe me and won't do any further investigation. Yeah. It'll work.
I bet he had sprouts on that sandwich ;>
The message here is not to future victims of hate crimes. The Â
but of course the media was so quick to jump on it because of the MAGA aspect of it. No fact checking at all. I saw some of the sympathetic and leading interviews that were conducted with him.
He should absolutely be charged with a crime. No doubt he will get off without a severe penalty.
Meanwhile, I am just laughing at how anyone could have believed his story. He claimed to have gotten his ass kicked but he never dropped his Subway sandwich to defend himself.
Then, he keeps the noose around his neck the way Flav wears a clock. Who would not take that noose off the moment the attackers fled? That is probably the first thing anyone would do. Totally ridiculous...
I was in the “kinda feels fake but would be fucked up so I’ll wait til the details come out” camp. It just seemed so over the top and too on the nose. I actually thought it sounded so fake that this guy couldn’t possibly be stupid enough to try and get away with it.
But apparently I underestimated his stupidity and desperation. Just pathetic on so many levels. As others mentioned, by doing this he is hurting ACTUAL victims of hate crimes who will be doubted more.
Fact is there is an alarming rise in hate crimes over the last couple of years, this is a real issue that has caused real harm to too many people. This desperate idiot trying to use that for his favor to make himself more popular is not only selfish but dangerous. Fuck this guy and I hope he faces real repercussions from this sad act.
When people stage something they generally go overboard. The assailants were wearing MAGA hats, they poured bleach on him, they tied a noose around his neck. . . they tried way too hard
with something like this is now when it really happens (and there will be shit like this that happens) it will get scrutinized more and people will push the real victim for proof and they'll be questioned perhaps unfairly.
the damage done by this and acts like it, regardless of the particulars, is far-reaching.
everything will be a hoax now, until it's not.
this guy should be prosecuted - in a massive way - if they do in fact prove it was a hoax like many people suspected from the beginning and I'm pretty sure the attacks on people who suspected it was a hoax won't be apologized for or retracted.
Maybe. But most of the "staged" attacks are done by kids who think it is funny or just want their 15 minutes of social media fame. I know this guy was 32 or whatever but he was trying to keep himself in the limelight and stay on his show.
After 2016 election I remember seeing a news report about a "swazsticka" painted on a synagogue. Only the swazsticka was backwards. The people who stage stuff generally are not that bright and give themselves away.
with something like this is now when it really happens (and there will be shit like this that happens) it will get scrutinized more and people will push the real victim for proof and they'll be questioned perhaps unfairly.
the damage done by this and acts like it, regardless of the particulars, is far-reaching.
everything will be a hoax now, until it's not.
this guy should be prosecuted - in a massive way - if they do in fact prove it was a hoax like many people suspected from the beginning and I'm pretty sure the attacks on people who suspected it was a hoax won't be apologized for or retracted.
Maybe. But most of the "staged" attacks are done by kids who think it is funny or just want their 15 minutes of social media fame. I know this guy was 32 or whatever but he was trying to keep himself in the limelight and stay on his show.
After 2016 election I remember seeing a news report about a "swazsticka" painted on a synagogue. Only the swazsticka was backwards. The people who stage stuff generally are not that bright and give themselves away.
this is not the point, sure to some it was obvious this did not add up (more people claim this insight now in hindsight than when it was first reported, but whatever) the point is do you have any idea how many prominent people (politicians, celebrities, athletes, media personalities, etc.) commented on this issue and blamed an entire group of people and how far it reached - on social media and traditional media outlets?
now that it's known to likely be a hoax, how far do you think that information will reach? I'll tell you, a fraction of the scope the initial response had.
Do you think all those celebrities, politicians, athletes, and media personas who ran with the initial story will issue retractions or apologies?
No, they will not. The damage is done, even if it was a "kid who thought it would be funny or wanted 15 minutes of fame"
and the real victim will be the actual victim of a real racist or homophobic attack that is questioned unfairly.
and I won't even bother to mention the people falsely persecuted for this incident, some people have already said they deserve it even if this was a hoax, which in a sick sick way is very ironic.
Charles Stuart is probably rotting away in hell right now with a smile on his face.
"The bill, which was introduced in June by Sens. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.), Cory Booker (D-N.J.) and Tim Scott (R-S.C.), had previously passed in the Senate in December".
So, he gets a death threat, but declines extra security, and decides to go out at 02:00am in the middle of a Polar Vortex in Chicago to get a Subway Sandwich. He can't use Uber Eats?
Oh, the Subway sandwich wasn't damaged, apparently after the mugging. Tough city, tougher sandwiches, I guess.
Here's a picture of the two "white" Trump Supporters who supposedly yelled "MAGA Country" (on the right):
By the way, they are from the Trump enclave known as "Nigera" (Nigerians are MAGA supporters, apparently). They are brothers, who were extras on Empire, and Smollett follows them on Twitter. The same guys Jussie claimed he beat off.
Sounds legit, eh?
The Black youtube community is roasting Smollett on Youtube as we speak. The following link is ROFLMAO, just remember it's NSFW (language):
By the way, they are from the Trump enclave known as "Nigera" (Nigerians are MAGA supporters, apparently). They are brothers, who were extras on Empire, and Smollett follows them on Twitter. The same guys Jussie claimed he beat off.
Sounds legit, eh?
The Black youtube community is roasting Smollett on Youtube as we speak. The following link is ROFLMAO, just remember it's NSFW (language):
Hoteps Been Told You - Hoteps break down Jussie Smollet
Was complete bullshit from the beginning. It just wasn’t plausible and his actions revealed it was false.
This guy should be made an example of to stop these false claims. It’s hurt police and the real victims of crime. Deserves to be charged to the full extent of the law.
I believe it's a felony to lie to police/file false report in Chicago.
from the beginning, it is because you wanted it to be true.
Two racist, homophobic, Trump supporters... who also watch Empire were wandering around with a noose and bleach at 2am in -20F and spotted this actor. They yelled about “MAGA country”... in Chicago? He left the noose around his neck for an hour?
Senate Passes Bill That Makes Lynching a Federal Crime
"The bill, which was introduced in June by Sens. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.), Cory Booker (D-N.J.) and Tim Scott (R-S.C.), had previously passed in the Senate in December".
Both Harris and Booker had mentioned the Smollett incident in tweets backing the bill; Senators Harris, Booker Call Jussie Smollett Attack A ‘Modern-day Lynching’
Harris knows Smollett, he is in videos with her during her campaign. Smollett wore his noose for hours after the attack.-
Coincidence?
TMZ:SMollett turned down extra security days before brutal attack
So, he gets a death threat, but declines extra security, and decides to go out at 02:00am in the middle of a Polar Vortex in Chicago to get a Subway Sandwich. He can't use Uber Eats?
Oh, the Subway sandwich wasn't damaged, apparently after the mugging. Tough city, tougher sandwiches, I guess.
Here's a picture of the two "white" Trump Supporters who supposedly yelled "MAGA Country" (on the right):
By the way, they are from the Trump enclave known as "Nigera" (Nigerians are MAGA supporters, apparently). They are brothers, who were extras on Empire, and Smollett follows them on Twitter. The same guys Jussie claimed he beat off.
Sounds legit, eh?
The Black youtube community is roasting Smollett on Youtube as we speak. The following link is ROFLMAO, just remember it's NSFW (language):
Hoteps Been Told You - Hoteps break down Jussie Smollet
Well to be fair he very well might have beat those guys off... if you know what I mean.
all parties involved going down. The two people he hired are singing like canaries and one of the two assailants acted in Empire! LOL! Also ties to Cumala Harris and Spartacus.
all parties involved going down. The two people he hired are singing like canaries and one of the two assailants acted in Empire! LOL! Also ties to Cumala Harris and Spartacus.
DNC is getting real desperate, not good.
Is any of this necessary or furthering the conversation?
Take a look at how basically everyone else can handle themselves on a subject without acting like a 12-year-old. It's totally possible.
all parties involved going down. The two people he hired are singing like canaries and one of the two assailants acted in Empire! LOL! Also ties to Cumala Harris and Spartacus.
DNC is getting real desperate, not good.
What does this have to do with the DNC?
Not sure why this can't just be one singular human being displaying incredibly poor judgement and doing something despicable on their own accord - no, this was all orchestrated by the DNC somehow.
all parties involved going down. The two people he hired are singing like canaries and one of the two assailants acted in Empire! LOL! Also ties to Cumala Harris and Spartacus.
line of thinking in his tweet is bullshit. He goes through a lot of mental gymnastics and dot connecting to basically say it's not this guy's fault (or less his fault), it's the "deep state".
Bullshit.
What is more likely IMO is this guy was being written out of his show and decided to use the 2018/2019 method of attention whoring aka "become a victim" to try and stay relevant.
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
And it was working. Until he got caught.
And I will say the people who are giddy it's likely a hoax are almost as bad as the rush to judgment crowd. Shit like this helps no one.
line of thinking in his tweet is bullshit. He goes through a lot of mental gymnastics and dot connecting to basically say it's not this guy's fault (or less his fault), it's the "deep state".
Bullshit.
What is more likely IMO is this guy was being written out of his show and decided to use the 2018/2019 method of attention whoring aka "become a victim" to try and stay relevant.
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
And it was working. Until he got caught.
And I will say the people who are giddy it's likely a hoax are almost as bad as the rush to judgment crowd. Shit like this helps no one.
Last line hits on a key/disturbing point - it's like people are borderline giddy over it being BS since they then feel validated in perpetuating the hatred by turning it on him now. It doesn't help anyone.
All anyone needs to do is read any of my comments on this thread and you'll know that I absolutely do NOT condone what Smollett did if he did indeed make this all up/orchestrate it - I think he should have to deal with legal ramifications and whatever negative impact it has on his career.
But turning this into a way to lambast the entire left side isn't helping anyone. Smollett acted on his own accord here. He wasn't put up to this by the DNC. Divisive commentary like that is exactly why we have so many fucking issues here.
And I will say the people who are giddy it's likely a hoax are almost as bad as the rush to judgment crowd. Shit like this helps no one.
But one causes the other. I'm in the "giddy" crowd solely because I absolutely abhor the "rush to judgment" crowd.
In today's age, everyone automatically thinks the worst in everyone else. Even with due process, lives can still be destroyed with such allegations.
Hopefully, incidents such as this will help to quell the madness.
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
Yikes. You really think that?
I'd posit any "seizing" was more about believing someone, and condemning it.
I don't think people of color and the gay community are hot after there being hate crimes.
Maybe everyone should exhibit some patience when questionable events occur, but "wanting it to be true" is a little cynical, no?
Their behavior leads me to believe that. Any further comment really makes the thread political (or overtly political when I feel like people have done a solid job so far for the most part of discussing an issue with political undertones), but let's just say I get the sense that things like "believe all women" only really means believe all women when the woman is useful to them.
I don't think this type of thinking is isolated to any one way of thinking, it's probably all the assholes in politics or media or celebrities or athletes, but where are the retractions and apologies? I've seen one half-hearted one.
if they really cared about the truth and the "greater good" they would admit errors or mistakes, not remain silent now that the damage has been done.
but no one cares about the greater good, they only care about their own agendas and their "side".
If that's cynicism, sorry but I'm not sorry. it's the state of our world right now IMO.
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
Yikes. You really think that?
I'd posit any "seizing" was more about believing someone, and condemning it.
I don't think people of color and the gay community are hot after there being hate crimes.
Maybe everyone should exhibit some patience when questionable events occur, but "wanting it to be true" is a little cynical, no?
Yes I believe that, especially of those who tied this “hate crime” to a larger cause..
I do agree that people should hold judgement until the facts are in. There is no reason to attack people who say things don’t seem to add up but I will wait for further facts before absolutely believing or not believing.
all parties involved going down. The two people he hired are singing like canaries and one of the two assailants acted in Empire! LOL! Also ties to Cumala Harris and Spartacus.
DNC is getting real desperate, not good.
What does this have to do with the DNC?
Not sure why this can't just be one singular human being displaying incredibly poor judgement and doing something despicable on their own accord - no, this was all orchestrated by the DNC somehow.
Give me a break.
True. (And the Arcade guy is a moron). Still, the pattern has been set over the past couple years where isolated individuals become
Representative Of all the the MAGA hat or hat wearers. Heck, I read of a restaurant that refuses to serve anyone wearing a MAGA hat.
line of thinking in his tweet is bullshit. He goes through a lot of mental gymnastics and dot connecting to basically say it's not this guy's fault (or less his fault), it's the "deep state".
Bullshit.
What is more likely IMO is this guy was being written out of his show and decided to use the 2018/2019 method of attention whoring aka "become a victim" to try and stay relevant.
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
And it was working. Until he got caught.
And I will say the people who are giddy it's likely a hoax are almost as bad as the rush to judgment crowd. Shit like this helps no one.
It's fine is you think Nasheed's opinion is BS but don't change his words. He doesn't blame "deep state"; he explicitly lays out connections to 2 actual senators and backs it up with real tweets and quotes.
came after the fact, dot connecting is not fact connecting and he offers zero proof of any connection between Smollett and anyone else before the fact.
the facts suggest Smollett initiated the incident 100% on his own, until there are other facts and what Tariq Nasheed offered in his tweets are not facts. they are conspiracy theories.
I wouldn't be surprised of those two politicians have the same social media publisher, they have similar tweets and language frequently, hence my assertion to the deep state.
which I admit, was my own ad-lib, but that's what he's doing.
Yes I believe that, especially of those who tied this “hate crime” to a larger cause..
I do agree that people should hold judgement until the facts are in. There is no reason to attack people who say things don’t seem to add up but I will wait for further facts before absolutely believing or not believing.
I haven't read more than the update articles and a few quotes from reps and celebrities offering support the alleged victim. I admit, I totally might have missed some of the action between sides. There are, sadly obvious profiteers who absolutely do exploit situations to their benefit. I see that.
What I do think is cynical and a little unsophisticated is the generalizing what a whole group's intentions are. I suspect there a number of athletes, celebrities, politicians, and citizens who don't want alleged events like that to be true, and voice their concern toward the cause of ending such actions.
Invalidating a minority group's advocacy because they are "exaggerating, taking advantage of, exploiting ..." is a historically tried and true tactic to silence dissent.
I don't think any majority of a group "wanted this to be true" to further some cause.
Yes I believe that, especially of those who tied this “hate crime” to a larger cause..
I do agree that people should hold judgement until the facts are in. There is no reason to attack people who say things don’t seem to add up but I will wait for further facts before absolutely believing or not believing.
I haven't read more than the update articles and a few quotes from reps and celebrities offering support the alleged victim. I admit, I totally might have missed some of the action between sides. There are, sadly obvious profiteers who absolutely do exploit situations to their benefit. I see that.
What I do think is cynical and a little unsophisticated is the generalizing what a whole group's intentions are. I suspect there a number of athletes, celebrities, politicians, and citizens who don't want alleged events like that to be true, and voice their concern toward the cause of ending such actions.
Invalidating a minority group's advocacy because they are "exaggerating, taking advantage of, exploiting ..." is a historically tried and true tactic to silence dissent.
I don't think any majority of a group "wanted this to be true" to further some cause.
I would not say majority but there is a significant portion of the vocal minority who have the ear of the media who use any such incident like this true or false to push their agenda. I could name names but I do nothing t wish to push this in a more political direction.
of any group wanted it to be true, I said the people who seized on it did.
And I stand by that, and no it's not to silence dissent, quite the opposite in this case. The dissent went the other way, and any one who expressed suspicion of this story when first reported was lazily branded a racist and homophobe (at best, there was much worse).
it's about truth, transparency, self control, the media doing their job and investigating, not simply retweeting or opining (because yes IMO it fits their agenda and support their narrative).
I watched a CNN "pundit" go on the air and claim no reputable news source included the "this is MAGA country" alleged comment from the "perpetrators". All you need to do is search google and you can see many people on CNN doing exactly this in tweet, published, and on-air.
but again, this distracts from my point. It's not why I posted.
this event is damaging on all sides (assuming it is truly a hoax), it hurts minorities, it emboldens future racist attacks and most of all it hurts the next real victim.
more than enough examples to use on why rushing to judgement often ends up creating a shitshow, yet we continue to do it.
Misreporting initial facts, slanting the story to a certain direction, sensationalizing the events to make it polarizing all come into play. And it far too often is the Media that makes the situation worse.
The Duke lacrosse example was a great model for this. Initially report that a black woman was trapped in a house with testosterone-filled white athletes, being held against her will and repeatedly raped resulted in all sorts of dominoes to follow.
Appearances in Durham by Sharpton and Jackson. Removal of the coach from the team. Scrutiny of how affluent the players were and how their privilege afforded them high-priced counsel.
All things that could have been avoided if the initial story was fact-checked and not blown up to be a major incident until the vetting process was complete. But the Media saw a chance to report a blockbuster and they ran with it, impacting many, many lives in the process.
I don't disagree there is a group with motivations who exploit hot button issues to further agendas.
What I take intellectual exception to is the notion:
Quote:
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
That's pretty scary, and unproductive hyperbole to me.
You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
I feel the same way when the tables are turned and it's an issue with someone like say Justin Fairfax or Ralph Northam.
those two people had incidents that turned to be true or likely true, but if they hadn't been true, the opposite to an issue like this one was certainly possible.
I am sure there are other examples. I referenced Charles Stuart earlier in the thread and of course Stuart's crime was not equitable to what Smollett has done in any way, but the reactions by the "power people" were similar.
I don't disagree there is a group with motivations who exploit hot button issues to further agendas.
What I take intellectual exception to is the notion:
Quote:
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
That's pretty scary, and unproductive hyperbole to me.
We are starting to tread on dangerous ground, but it is not hyperbole, I find it to be true. Sides look for anything to advance their agenda, and this was prime real estate for some.
Now of course, it fits the other's agenda.....which in turn, leads to hyperbole.
I wonder if we will ever really know the true reason this was staged. On one level I am sad that this was done and angry on another.
As is almost always the case, there are a number of cyncical and productive takes by the media, public personas, and public.
We're in a swing of the pendulum where journalism is being boxed out by sensationalism, and good journalism is being assualted by special interest.
This isn't new or unprecedented -- but it typically doesn't end super well.
The public should be able to believe the facts as presented to the them by the media. When it gets cute, incomplete, or as is the case right now, replaced by anyone with a phone and an opinion, it gets sloppy.
In place of building opinions on facts, too many time it feels like we are building opinions on opinion.
He now has Chicago PD and the Trump administration ticked off at him.
I doubt he see the inside of a jail cell. first he deserves due process, but if he is found guilty of anything, My guess is he claims he's got a substance abuse problem and goes to rehab or a mental issue and seeks professional help and he resurfaces when the dust settles.
with CBS Chief Foreign Correspondent Lara Logan (which is probably going to wind up as career suicide)
Quote:
"Although the media has historically always been left-leaning, we’ve abandoned our pretense. We’ve become political activists, and some could argue propagandists."
The interview was done for the Mike Drop podcast, with Mike Ritland who if you are not familiar is a really good listen and runs a great organization doing something with service dogs who are "retired".
Some of the quotes are from the linked medialite article.
Fact is there is an alarming rise in hate crimes over the last couple of years, this is a real issue that has caused real harm to too many people. This desperate idiot trying to use that for his favor to make himself more popular is not only selfish but dangerous. Fuck this guy and I hope he faces real repercussions from this sad act.
that actually isn't a known fact. According to the FBI--reporting is up, but they also state in some changes in reporting and definitions. The data is inconclusive.
the term "known offender" means the victim said they knew the race (or whatever) of the offender, but does not mean it is verified in any way.
just a quick look at years 2014 to 2017 (the only years I looked at); the white offenders dropped from 52 to 50% if that's the narrative you're going for.
anybody who victimizes another person should be prosecuted, but the supply doesn't meet the demand of the grotesque MSM and if it is actually up--it is being fueled by fake news.
Quote:
Fact is there is an alarming rise in hate crimes over the last couple of years, this is a real issue that has caused real harm to too many people. This desperate idiot trying to use that for his favor to make himself more popular is not only selfish but dangerous. Fuck this guy and I hope he faces real repercussions from this sad act.
that actually isn't a known fact. According to the FBI--reporting is up, but they also state in some changes in reporting and definitions. The data is inconclusive.
the term "known offender" means the victim said they knew the race (or whatever) of the offender, but does not mean it is verified in any way.
just a quick look at years 2014 to 2017 (the only years I looked at); the white offenders dropped from 52 to 50% if that's the narrative you're going for.
anybody who victimizes another person should be prosecuted, but the supply doesn't meet the demand of the grotesque MSM and if it is actually up--it is being fueled by fake news.
So I'm not sure about the "the FBI also states in some changes in reporting and definitions" sentence of your reply. I was going by the statistics from the FBI's website as well. Maybe you could point it out but I couldn't find them specify that there was a change in the way they reported these hate crimes in 2017 compared to previous years.
You ask what my narrative is and point out that the FBI stats show "white offenders" dropping from 52.0% of the overall total in 2014 to 50.7% in 2017 to disprove my point. Ok, I understand that statistic and it's definitely worthy of being pointed out. But I feel like you left something pretty important out of that equation.
Reported Hate Crime data (FBI)
2017: 6,370 offenders -- 7,175 incidents
2014: 5,192 offenders -- 5,479 incidents
That's a 22.7% increase in overall offenders and a 31.0% increase in reported incidents over a 4 year period. These are the highest reported totals since 2008. My "narrative" is that I said that there was an alarming rise in hate crimes over the last few years. I believe those massive jumps in reported numbers qualifies as alarming.
The data the FBI receives from the local level isn't mandated in any Â
Reported Hate Crime data (FBI)
2017: 6,370 offenders -- 7,175 incidents
2014: 5,192 offenders -- 5,479 incidents
That's a 22.7% increase in overall offenders and a 31.0% increase in reported incidents over a 4 year period. These are the highest reported totals since 2008. My "narrative" is that I said that there was an alarming rise in hate crimes over the last few years. I believe those massive jumps in reported numbers qualifies as alarming.
The number of police agencies reporting "hate" crimes increased by over 1000 agencies since 2014. That in itself will skew numbers and makes the numbers go up. And who classifies these criminal acts as "hate."
Personally, I think any personal attack is a hate crime. You don't attack people you like. I despise the term hate crime. It serves no purpose except to make some groups feel protected - like they are receiving special service, which they are not - it is ex post facto. This is certainly not to say that there are people that attack others for ethnicity or religious beliefs.
respect his service and expertise re: K9's. But his ideas outside his area of expertise aren't anything special.
do you listen regularly? He's not super political most of the time or at least not radically political like you may expect from a former Navy Seal. It's usually about dogs, cooking meats, military, etc.
To Lara Logan's point though, I listen often to Mike Drop and pods like that and read sources like that, but just as often I'll listen to Pod Save America or similar pods.
People really need a cross section of sources if they want to avoid an echo chamber and get a better sense of what is actually happening. and some people don't want to avoid an echo chamber and that's fine, but IMO if you want to avoid one seek out many different POV/sources.
respect his service and expertise re: K9's. But his ideas outside his area of expertise aren't anything special.
do you listen regularly? He's not super political most of the time or at least not radically political like you may expect from a former Navy Seal. It's usually about dogs, cooking meats, military, etc.
To Lara Logan's point though, I listen often to Mike Drop and pods like that and read sources like that, but just as often I'll listen to Pod Save America or similar pods.
People really need a cross section of sources if they want to avoid an echo chamber and get a better sense of what is actually happening. and some people don't want to avoid an echo chamber and that's fine, but IMO if you want to avoid one seek out many different POV/sources.
This is my point of view as well. Although I disagree with one side on more topics then the other side I always listen to both sides. And I actually stop and try and change my view point as best as possible to understand where the other side is coming from just too make sure I'm not crazy or, as you put it, stuck in an echo chamber. I have a rule where if I get caught up somehow listening to Maddow or Hannity, I will turn the other one on to get their side of the picture and then I parse out both of their bull shit and see what my thoughts are in the meat of the topic.
respect his service and expertise re: K9's. But his ideas outside his area of expertise aren't anything special.
do you listen regularly? He's not super political most of the time or at least not radically political like you may expect from a former Navy Seal. It's usually about dogs, cooking meats, military, etc.
To Lara Logan's point though, I listen often to Mike Drop and pods like that and read sources like that, but just as often I'll listen to Pod Save America or similar pods.
People really need a cross section of sources if they want to avoid an echo chamber and get a better sense of what is actually happening. and some people don't want to avoid an echo chamber and that's fine, but IMO if you want to avoid one seek out many different POV/sources.
"People really need a cross section of sources if they want to avoid an echo chamber and get a better sense of what is actually happening. and some people don't want to avoid an echo chamber and that's fine, but IMO if you want to avoid one seek out many different POV/sources."
I don't disagree there is a group with motivations who exploit hot button issues to further agendas.
What I take intellectual exception to is the notion:
Quote:
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
That's pretty scary, and unproductive hyperbole to me.
From the Washington Post Opt Ed, 02/17/2019
Quote:
If Smollett’s story is found to be untrue, it will cause irreparable damage to the communities most affected. Smollett would be the first example skeptics cite when they say we should be dubious of victims who step forward to share their experiences of racist hate crimes or sexual violence. The incident would be touted as proof that there is a leftist conspiracy to cast Trump supporters as violent, murderous racists. It would be the very embodiment of “fake news.”
And that reason, more than any other, is why I need this story to be true, despite its ugliness and despite what it would say about the danger of the world I live in. The damage done would be too deep and long-lasting. This could be one tragedy that the Lyon family — and more importantly, the ordinary people who loved the show and invested in Smollett and his character — could never overcome.
"Why I need this story to be true". The mask drops again, just like Covington. No matter what the reality, the MSM needs to promote it's narrative, damn the facts, ignore the search for truth, forget about journalistic ethics. Guilt by narrative.
"Democracy dies in Darkness"? Look in the mirror, WaPo...
Here's a good review of the article from Tim Poole
or any other singular source (which I think was someone's point above).
Absolutely. And click through to the source article from that scandalously headlined blog post someone posted on Facebook. It's usually not even close to what the headline states.
Apparently he once gave a false name (his brother's) to police, Â
when stopped on suspicion of DUI in 2007. That's obviously very different from fabricating a threat and assault, but it's another piece of information that paints an unflattering picture of him. (Probably also made for an awkward conversation at the next family gathering). lonk - ( New Window )
I don't disagree there is a group with motivations who exploit hot button issues to further agendas.
What I take intellectual exception to is the notion:
Quote:
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
That's pretty scary, and unproductive hyperbole to me.
From the Washington Post Opt Ed, 02/17/2019
Quote:
If Smollett’s story is found to be untrue, it will cause irreparable damage to the communities most affected. Smollett would be the first example skeptics cite when they say we should be dubious of victims who step forward to share their experiences of racist hate crimes or sexual violence. The incident would be touted as proof that there is a leftist conspiracy to cast Trump supporters as violent, murderous racists. It would be the very embodiment of “fake news.”
And that reason, more than any other, is why I need this story to be true, despite its ugliness and despite what it would say about the danger of the world I live in. The damage done would be too deep and long-lasting. This could be one tragedy that the Lyon family — and more importantly, the ordinary people who loved the show and invested in Smollett and his character — could never overcome.
link
"Why I need this story to be true". The mask drops again, just like Covington. No matter what the reality, the MSM needs to promote it's narrative, damn the facts, ignore the search for truth, forget about journalistic ethics. Guilt by narrative.
"Democracy dies in Darkness"? Look in the mirror, WaPo...
Here's a good review of the article from Tim Poole
Far Left BEGGING For Jussie Smollett To Be A VICTIM
Smolette also has ties to Fancy Bear, Konstantin Kilimnik's hacker group that stole Hillary's e-mails. He's beleived to be the real sorce of the Wikileak's dump and is one of the architect's of the fake news about Trump's collusion.
Far left definitely doesn't want that to get out. Media is going to bury this as fast as they can so they can continue to pursue their real agenda.
I don't disagree there is a group with motivations who exploit hot button issues to further agendas.
What I take intellectual exception to is the notion:
Quote:
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
That's pretty scary, and unproductive hyperbole to me.
From the Washington Post Opt Ed, 02/17/2019
Quote:
If Smollett’s story is found to be untrue, it will cause irreparable damage to the communities most affected. Smollett would be the first example skeptics cite when they say we should be dubious of victims who step forward to share their experiences of racist hate crimes or sexual violence. The incident would be touted as proof that there is a leftist conspiracy to cast Trump supporters as violent, murderous racists. It would be the very embodiment of “fake news.”
And that reason, more than any other, is why I need this story to be true, despite its ugliness and despite what it would say about the danger of the world I live in. The damage done would be too deep and long-lasting. This could be one tragedy that the Lyon family — and more importantly, the ordinary people who loved the show and invested in Smollett and his character — could never overcome.
link
"Why I need this story to be true". The mask drops again, just like Covington. No matter what the reality, the MSM needs to promote it's narrative, damn the facts, ignore the search for truth, forget about journalistic ethics. Guilt by narrative.
"Democracy dies in Darkness"? Look in the mirror, WaPo...
Here's a good review of the article from Tim Poole
Far Left BEGGING For Jussie Smollett To Be A VICTIM
Smolette also has ties to Fancy Bear, Konstantin Kilimnik's hacker group that stole Hillary's e-mails. He's beleived to be the real sorce of the Wikileak's dump and is one of the architect's of the fake news about Trump's collusion.
Far left definitely doesn't want that to get out. Media is going to bury this as fast as they can so they can continue to pursue their real agenda.
that if it says "op" anywhere near the title of the piece that signifies its an opinion piece. Traditionally all news outlets have these (inclusive of both fox and CNN mind you). While you could banter about the amount of balance of authors within these news outlets, the opinion part of the outlets are kept extremely far from the fact generating aspects. To say XYZ op piece is evidence of bias ignores the fundamental point that they are supposed to be biased opinions. No one ever accused a paper of being a shill to Dear Abby, I am not sure why this understanding has somehow eroded.
He is going to plead not guilty due to temporary insanity. He is going to claim Trump Derangement Syndrome. James Comey and Andrew McCabe will be watching closely.
that if it says "op" anywhere near the title of the piece that signifies its an opinion piece. Traditionally all news outlets have these (inclusive of both fox and CNN mind you). While you could banter about the amount of balance of authors within these news outlets, the opinion part of the outlets are kept extremely far from the fact generating aspects. To say XYZ op piece is evidence of bias ignores the fundamental point that they are supposed to be biased opinions. No one ever accused a paper of being a shill to Dear Abby, I am not sure why this understanding has somehow eroded.
Is this a serious post?
Either you are severely out of touch with how a large portion of society works today to get their news and don't understand how much information is disseminated via social media outlets in tweets and instagram stories (for example) and even still on TV news broadcasts vs actual print media stories. Print media is a dying medium.
Or you just feel like the majority of people cannot differentiate an opinion column vs "the news". Nothing "has eroded" based on the majority of comments I have read from in this thread.
I do agree some individuals go too far with the media criticism and it's not helpful, but that doesn't mean he/they are totally wrong.
Journalistic standards are practically non-existent today for many in the media. Even if you want to give the media a pass on this case (no idea why you would), just look at Convington Catholic, the level of "investigation" (or lack thereof) before stories were published is amazing. The amount of news outlets who just ran that piece and the number of journalists, who commented (not an op-ed, but a news story) is staggering without watching that whole video. And I think the lawsuit has at least a chance of progressing, which is rare. A journalist sharing or tweeting a story on twitter is not an op-ed, it's disseminating information.
The Lara Logan quotes posted above are not about op-ed pieces and as a former chief foreign correspondent for CBS I think she'd know the difference even if you don't think the rest of us mouthbreathing knuckle draggers know the difference.
There must be something especially insidious about CBS news division Â
the thing is he had everyone convinced. Politicians saw an opportunity to comment. Musicians used him as a symbol of modern day hate towards LGBTQ and Race. and the list goes on...
Then he tries to use the most popular symbol of the MAGA stuff and white power.
Its just a very ridiculous thing. I dont think anything he can say now can justify his reasons. NONE.
his actions speak loud to the poor girl bullied for her transition. To the hispanic boy or girl ridiculed for her race. Its just horrible.
This story has brought out some insane things in people. Not just here. It's mind-numbing. If one is a Trump supporter they want the guy tar and feathered. If not? They don't want him going to jail.
Everyone's judgment as to what his fate should be is rooted in politics. If he's guilty, he should of course be punished. But what goes into that punishment is more than how you feel about Donald Trump. Is he a repeat-offender (I read he lied during a DUI once?)? Is there reason to believe he's a danger to society? Did he cooperate with authorities or is he cooperating now?
This story has brought out some insane things in people. Not just here. It's mind-numbing. If one is a Trump supporter they want the guy tar and feathered. If not? They don't want him going to jail.
Everyone's judgment as to what his fate should be is rooted in politics. If he's guilty, he should of course be punished. But what goes into that punishment is more than how you feel about Donald Trump. Is he a repeat-offender (I read he lied during a DUI once?)? Is there reason to believe he's a danger to society? Did he cooperate with authorities or is he cooperating now?
But no... it's all politics.
duh.. its all politics once political candidates began commenting on it.
this is how division is created. But to stay on topic, the guy made a plan of action, went on GMA to double down, and yada yada. He needs jail time.
This story has brought out some insane things in people. Not just here. It's mind-numbing. If one is a Trump supporter they want the guy tar and feathered. If not? They don't want him going to jail.
Everyone's judgment as to what his fate should be is rooted in politics. If he's guilty, he should of course be punished. But what goes into that punishment is more than how you feel about Donald Trump. Is he a repeat-offender (I read he lied during a DUI once?)? Is there reason to believe he's a danger to society? Did he cooperate with authorities or is he cooperating now?
But no... it's all politics.
Seems to me, most want something between being tarred and feathered and no prison tIme. Don’t like to see General statements made based on the views of the fringes.
This story has brought out some insane things in people. Not just here. It's mind-numbing. If one is a Trump supporter they want the guy tar and feathered. If not? They don't want him going to jail.
Everyone's judgment as to what his fate should be is rooted in politics. If he's guilty, he should of course be punished. But what goes into that punishment is more than how you feel about Donald Trump. Is he a repeat-offender (I read he lied during a DUI once?)? Is there reason to believe he's a danger to society? Did he cooperate with authorities or is he cooperating now?
But no... it's all politics.
He needs jail time to prevent other people from doing this in the future and to teach him he cannot get away with this nonsense in a normal society.
Smollett is (obviously) a guy who goes to absurd extremes to get attention, but he used a strawman that was not of his making.
Smollett is not alone in knowing that the media has a narrative for 2019 America. He played right into their hands and they ran with it without hesitation. Identity politics is the charter and trade of mainstream media and they took this absurd narrative hook, line and sinker until it became impossible to defend. Now, the same mouthpieces are pretending to 'search for answers' while scattering like roaches.
The lesson from all of this is that America in 2019 is not perfect, but certainly isn't being reported accurately. There's a template the media uses enemies and there need to be enemies (real or imagined). The identity politics template uses terms like; 'racist', 'homophobe', 'misogynist' etc. When you throw these labels on someone, you don't need to have a dialog or a conversation with them. It's a license to spit vitriol and make absurd unfounded assertions. This used to be the stuff or opinion journalism, now it's foisted as 'real' news. Journalists are building an insulated brick wall that's playing to ignorance and hate; it plays out every day in what used to be know as news and is eroding the last shreds of civility.
IMHO, Smollett played his identity politics card and is a victim of his ignorance and an agenda-driven media.
Smollett is (obviously) a guy who goes to absurd extremes to get attention, but he used a strawman that was not of his making.
Smollett is not alone in knowing that the media has a narrative for 2019 America. He played right into their hands and they ran with it without hesitation. Identity politics is the charter and trade of mainstream media and they took this absurd narrative hook, line and sinker until it became impossible to defend. Now, the same mouthpieces are pretending to 'search for answers' while scattering like roaches.
The lesson from all of this is that America in 2019 is not perfect, but certainly isn't being reported accurately. There's a template the media uses enemies and there need to be enemies (real or imagined). The identity politics template uses terms like; 'racist', 'homophobe', 'misogynist' etc. When you throw these labels on someone, you don't need to have a dialog or a conversation with them. It's a license to spit vitriol and make absurd unfounded assertions. This used to be the stuff or opinion journalism, now it's foisted as 'real' news. Journalists are building an insulated brick wall that's playing to ignorance and hate; it plays out every day in what used to be know as news and is eroding the last shreds of civility.
IMHO, Smollett played his identity politics card and is a victim of his ignorance and an agenda-driven media.
this 100%
this genius paid the Nigerian brothers with a personal check Â
presidential tweets there are for the white nationalist U.S. coast guard guy vs. Smollett.
(I'm sure they'll be coming momentarily)
*rolls eyes*
Here is where confirmation bias and identity politics play a huge part in the division of this country.
Why can't both be wrong? This is not a binary choice where you can only pick one.
How about the fact MOST of the country supports neither of these two assholes and feels both should be beholden to what our legal system dictates for their transgressions. These two shouldn't have a "side".
One of them obviously could have been far more wrong and grievously so, but fortunately didn't carry out plans he fantasized about.
The other preyed on the emotions of the whole country and arguably did more tangible damage than the other.
If you're looking for politicians to tweet for your validation you are misguided.
presidential tweets there are for the white nationalist U.S. coast guard guy vs. Smollett.
(I'm sure they'll be coming momentarily)
*rolls eyes*
Here is where confirmation bias and identity politics play a huge part in the division of this country.
Why can't both be wrong? This is not a binary choice where you can only pick one.
How about the fact MOST of the country supports neither of these two assholes and feels both should be beholden to what our legal system dictates for their transgressions. These two shouldn't have a "side".
One of them obviously could have been far more wrong and grievously so, but fortunately didn't carry out plans he fantasized about.
The other preyed on the emotions of the whole country and arguably did more tangible damage than the other.
If you're looking for politicians to tweet for your validation you are misguided.
Trump condemned Smollett. Where's the tweet condemning Hasson??
That is my point. Can't believe that needed clarifying.
I am not going to get in a position where I need to defend the President, but he probably tweeted condemning Smollett because like many others he previously commented on how terrible the "attack" was on Smollett.
From politico:
Quote:
President Donald Trump on Thursday called the attack on “Empire” star Jussie Smollett “horrible,” condemning the assault by individuals who the actor alleged referenced the president’s campaign slogan as they attacked him.....
“It doesn’t get worse, as far as I’m concerned,” Trump said of the attack during an Oval Office exchange with the White House press pool on Thursday."...
So whether he comments on Hasson or not is irrelevant to Smollett. There are a lot of horrible acts committed or planned to be committed by horrible people I don't need commentary on them all.
presidential tweets there are for the white nationalist U.S. coast guard guy vs. Smollett.
(I'm sure they'll be coming momentarily)
*rolls eyes*
Here is where confirmation bias and identity politics play a huge part in the division of this country.
Why can't both be wrong? This is not a binary choice where you can only pick one.
How about the fact MOST of the country supports neither of these two assholes and feels both should be beholden to what our legal system dictates for their transgressions. These two shouldn't have a "side".
One of them obviously could have been far more wrong and grievously so, but fortunately didn't carry out plans he fantasized about.
The other preyed on the emotions of the whole country and arguably did more tangible damage than the other.
If you're looking for politicians to tweet for your validation you are misguided.
think for yourself.
"The other preyed on the emotions of the whole country and arguably did more tangible damage than the other."
Isn't this what POTUS does every single day?
I agree with your "think for yourself" argument but unfortunately this is not the case because most view political parties more fanatically than their sports teams and that is exactly what got us into this current mess.
As for my earlier post, I was not speaking generally and referring to our current accelerant in chief but you probably already figured that out.
on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Trump condemned Smollett. Where's the tweet condemning Hasson??
That is my point. Can't believe that needed clarifying.
He also said, "hat I can tell you is horrible, I’ve seen it. Last night. It’s horrible. Doesn’t get worse.” when word first broke that he'd been attacked. Why did you leave that out of your post?
on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
RE: RE: RE: Should be interesting to see how many Â
As for my earlier post, I was not speaking generally and referring to our current accelerant in chief but you probably already figured that out.
Wake up sheeple. So does Adam "the liar" Schiff(only person to "see" collusion for two years and has yet to show proof), the Whiner Senate Minority Leader and babbling Speaker - all of whom use inflammatory language everyday. Even freakin Bernie Sanders has join the mudslinging...
They all do it, they all suck and if you don't see it you are blind.
Trump condemned Smollett. Where's the tweet condemning Hasson??
That is my point. Can't believe that needed clarifying.
He also said, "hat I can tell you is horrible, I’ve seen it. Last night. It’s horrible. Doesn’t get worse.” when word first broke that he'd been attacked. Why did you leave that out of your post?
Have not seen that tweet about specifically condemning Hasson yet. Let me know.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Should be interesting to see how many Â
As for my earlier post, I was not speaking generally and referring to our current accelerant in chief but you probably already figured that out.
Wake up sheeple. So does Adam "the liar" Schiff(only person to "see" collusion for two years and has yet to show proof), the Whiner Senate Minority Leader and babbling Speaker - all of whom use inflammatory language everyday. Even freakin Bernie Sanders has join the mudslinging...
They all do it, they all suck and if you don't see it you are blind.
on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
this thread is clearly off track, and likely headed for deletion, but.....
Quote:
"The riots in Charlottesville a year ago resulted in senseless death and division," Trump posted on Twitter Saturday morning. "We must come together as a nation. I condemn all types of racism and acts of violence. Peace to ALL Americans!"
on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
You don't get to make the rules about how it works. Do you think you're Trump?
Comparing 45's inflammatory language to the Speaker, Schiff, Bernie, & Schumer. Just LOL worthy. Come on.
They are all bad. Difference is you have been sucked in. 45 is terrible, no doubt. Take his doggone phone away, close the account, don't want to hear from him anymore. The others are just as bad, but because your bias is that way you overlook it. Have you heard of the big lie? Say something long enough and loud enough and it becomes the truth...Adam Schiff, for almost two years that ass has said he has seen evidence, funny he is the only one or haven't you noticed?
on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
Oh, and btw, from USA Today:
After two days of public pressure to renounce white supremacists at the root of street violence in Charlottesville, Va., President Trump declared Monday that "racism is evil" and announced that the Justice Department will open a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that left one woman dead.
"To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence: You will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered," Trump said after returning to the White House to meet with top federal law enforcement officials.
Denouncing racism, Trump said in a prepared speech that "those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans." Link - ( New Window )
on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
Oh, and btw, from USA Today:
After two days of public pressure to renounce white supremacists at the root of street violence in Charlottesville, Va., President Trump declared Monday that "racism is evil" and announced that the Justice Department will open a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that left one woman dead.
"To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence: You will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered," Trump said after returning to the White House to meet with top federal law enforcement officials.
Denouncing racism, Trump said in a prepared speech that "those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans." Link - ( New Window )
lol exactly, after being pressured, he read from a prepared speech. "very fine people on both sides" was his first reaction.
on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
And it's obvious to all that what Smollett did was wrong to make a false report of a hate crime, but if you're not just as concerned about a radicalized domestic terrorist who amasses an arsenal & plans to kill people in government & the media, then I don't know what to tell you.
on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
Oh, and btw, from USA Today:
After two days of public pressure to renounce white supremacists at the root of street violence in Charlottesville, Va., President Trump declared Monday that "racism is evil" and announced that the Justice Department will open a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that left one woman dead.
"To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence: You will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered," Trump said after returning to the White House to meet with top federal law enforcement officials.
Denouncing racism, Trump said in a prepared speech that "those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans." Link - ( New Window )
lol exactly, after being pressured, he read from a prepared speech. "very fine people on both sides" was his first reaction.
Doesn't matter when or why he said it. Your statement isn't that he never condemned them is false. Period
on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
Oh, and btw, from USA Today:
After two days of public pressure to renounce white supremacists at the root of street violence in Charlottesville, Va., President Trump declared Monday that "racism is evil" and announced that the Justice Department will open a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that left one woman dead.
"To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence: You will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered," Trump said after returning to the White House to meet with top federal law enforcement officials.
Denouncing racism, Trump said in a prepared speech that "those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans." Link - ( New Window )
lol exactly, after being pressured, he read from a prepared speech. "very fine people on both sides" was his first reaction.
Again, you seem to be looking for the President to comment on something for your own validation.
why?
he should not be your moral compass, I don't care who the president is.
and you should not need any validation or expectation from him to comment to make you feel like things are "even".
His first comment on Smollett was one of condemnation.
which is probably why he felt compelled to comment on the hoax, but who knows (or cares).
There are certain atrocities that are horrific enough (like Hasson) that reasonable people don't need anyone to comment.
on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
Oh, and btw, from USA Today:
After two days of public pressure to renounce white supremacists at the root of street violence in Charlottesville, Va., President Trump declared Monday that "racism is evil" and announced that the Justice Department will open a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that left one woman dead.
"To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence: You will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered," Trump said after returning to the White House to meet with top federal law enforcement officials.
Denouncing racism, Trump said in a prepared speech that "those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans." Link - ( New Window )
lol exactly, after being pressured, he read from a prepared speech. "very fine people on both sides" was his first reaction.
you think he was referring to antifa and the white nationalists as the both sides? Can you think of any other both sides?
were large and diverse. The left had scumbags like Antifa plus a lot of decent people, the right had scumbags like the White Supremacists plus a lot of decent people. What Trump said wasn't wrong, it was just insensitive and dumb, because he should know that when he says anything it'll be taken out of context and spun. The man is a victim of many self-inflicted wounds. As to the big picture, people in general need to keeps their mouths shut until the facts come out on any story. Obama was often just as bad as
Trump as far as publicly rushing to judgement.
There are certain atrocities that are horrific enough (like Hasson) that reasonable people don't need anyone to comment.
Easy on the hyperbole, pj :) Atrocities are defined as acts, not thoughts. Collecting weapons is not an atrocity, using them certainly is.
I was speaking generally, not specifically, but mentioned Hasson to show why the hit list put together by Hasson needs no commentary.
The fake bombs sent to liberal media was met with strong condemnation (though perhaps not ironically, the media only focused on the "but..." after the condemnation).
it goes back to where I started on this thread, people need to stop getting their information from echo chambers.
Confirmation bias is real, and it's human nature, but it doesn't help heal division.
Some people don't want to heal division they want to seize on it and many people are useful idiots in that endeavor.
There are certain atrocities that are horrific enough (like Hasson) that reasonable people don't need anyone to comment.
Easy on the hyperbole, pj :) Atrocities are defined as acts, not thoughts. Collecting weapons is not an atrocity, using them certainly is.
I was speaking generally, not specifically, but mentioned Hasson to show why the hit list put together by Hasson needs no commentary.
The fake bombs sent to liberal media was met with strong condemnation (though perhaps not ironically, the media only focused on the "but..." after the condemnation).
it goes back to where I started on this thread, people need to stop getting their information from echo chambers.
Confirmation bias is real, and it's human nature, but it doesn't help heal division.
Some people don't want to heal division they want to seize on it and many people are useful idiots in that endeavor.
Maybe non-functioning would be a better term than fake Link - ( New Window )
Yes, my apologies, the bombs were real explosive materials, but from what I read according to explosive experts, not capable of detonating because they were poorly made.
Trump? Whatever you think of me, and there's plenty of negatives to jump on so have fun, there's oodles of evidence that the President's guiding principle is "how does this help me or how can I twist it to my benefit?" Unlike most inhabitants of the office, it's pretty obvious he has no core beliefs at all. It's all kabuki theater for his own benefit.
I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
It's interesting... there's something about the "planned" that renders it incomparable to the "accomplished." Hasson actually committed no action, so ultimately he is little more than a hypothetical.
RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
I'm not saying he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically. I'm saying he plays to his base because a) his base is easy and b) his base gives him every republican in Washington. His base has shown that they will turn on any republican who doesn't give him what he wants. It's why the only republicans who don't toe the line are the ones who decided to not run for office again. He wields that power in DC like a hammer. That's why in the last shutdown, he ran the show.... into the ground. It was a doomed strategy from the start but no one could get through to him such that he would realize it.
But, from a larger standpoint, I don't think I was commenting on strategy at all. I don't disagree that he's stuck to his "principles" as much as Carter. The difference is (in my opinion) that Carter actually believed in his principles. He was arguably the worst president of my lifetime (and I am a liberal's liberal) but that failure was guided by principles that he held dearly. Those principles have been much more effective in private service than they were in public service. You can see the difference in their life's works. Trump jumped into a weak Republican party and curb stomped the nerds running for president. 15 years before that he was a democrat. Every step he's made since then has been guided by a desire for power and influence - not any deeply held beliefs. It worked. Hats off to him, but he's not some flawed figure pursuing his ideals - George W is better described that way. He's a personality who craves adulation and power and refuses to take responsibility for anything negative. Full stop.
Tribal and partisan division is as old as society. Instant access and more avenues to endulge and engage are probably what historians will write about this era.
What's unique and alarming is the erosion of truth as an ante to generally participate in the market place of ideas. That normally portends to bad things for a society.
Debating, bickering, and even sometimes crossing the line aren't calamities when batting around hard topics.
But the full scale adoption of lies and setups as part of the social dialogue is historically very, very dangerous.
I'm more troubled a public figure found it plausible to cook up a stunt like that, than any group or individual on the sideline's reaction.
RE: RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
I'm not saying he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically. I'm saying he plays to his base because a) his base is easy and b) his base gives him every republican in Washington. His base has shown that they will turn on any republican who doesn't give him what he wants. It's why the only republicans who don't toe the line are the ones who decided to not run for office again. He wields that power in DC like a hammer. That's why in the last shutdown, he ran the show.... into the ground. It was a doomed strategy from the start but no one could get through to him such that he would realize it.
But, from a larger standpoint, I don't think I was commenting on strategy at all. I don't disagree that he's stuck to his "principles" as much as Carter. The difference is (in my opinion) that Carter actually believed in his principles. He was arguably the worst president of my lifetime (and I am a liberal's liberal) but that failure was guided by principles that he held dearly. Those principles have been much more effective in private service than they were in public service. You can see the difference in their life's works. Trump jumped into a weak Republican party and curb stomped the nerds running for president. 15 years before that he was a democrat. Every step he's made since then has been guided by a desire for power and influence - not any deeply held beliefs. It worked. Hats off to him, but he's not some flawed figure pursuing his ideals - George W is better described that way. He's a personality who craves adulation and power and refuses to take responsibility for anything negative. Full stop.
To say that Trump playing to his base gives him every Republican in Washington is ludicrous. Half of the Republican establishment are never-Trumpers. Paul Ryan was totally anti-Trump. McConnell gives him only what he has to. Weekly Standard,(RIP), National Review are anti-Trump. His base is made up of Tea Partiers, populist Democrats, and some conservative Republicans. I was not at all a Trump fan during the primaries. I never believed he was a conservative. But everything he has done in office points to a person with real conservative principles. Does he make an ass of himself most times that he speaks off the cuff? Yes he does. But no one else who ran as a Republican in 2016 would have accomplished anywhere close to as much as far as a conservative agenda as Trump has. As far as him being a hammer, he hasn't a clue on how to keep the membership in line compared to Harry Reid and Nacny Pelosi.
Was just perusing the FBI hate crime stats. In 2017, there were about 2400 hate crimes reported against African-Americans, whose population is about 34 million. There were about 1000 hate crimes reported against Jews, with a population of about 7 million. So on a per capita basis, the crimes against Jews are way higher than against African-Americans. Just sayin'
That is simplistic post...I don't like the guy, but he has been pretty spot on in most items if you step back and actually see through his bluster. Yes the shutdown was a loser, but there way no way Chuck and Nancy could give in because it would be another feather in his cap and they could not afford for him to win again. But the trade deals went against every economist and he was correct. He will likely get a good result from China because they need us infinitely more than we need them. He knows it. They know it. Everyone previous was afraid to stomp on them and China stole from our companies, cheated on trade and still does so while denying it.(I liked when Obama tried to open a dialogue with Iran and Cuba and I like that Trump is trying to negotiate with North Korea. Whether it works out is slim, but beats the alternative.)
I absolutely despise his name calling and petty cheap shots(although the stuff with Warren was prophetic). I do think this investigation is an absolute scam and McCabe pretty much proves it is with his comments in the CBS interview. Now what Trump said to McCabe's wife is disgusting and he deserved a bloody nose for it. But I do think he is right about the top level of the FBI being corrupt and think they should be charged with conspiracy and lying - same exact things that Flynn, George P, Stone et al, have been charged with.
than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
I'm not saying he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically. I'm saying he plays to his base because a) his base is easy and b) his base gives him every republican in Washington. His base has shown that they will turn on any republican who doesn't give him what he wants. It's why the only republicans who don't toe the line are the ones who decided to not run for office again. He wields that power in DC like a hammer. That's why in the last shutdown, he ran the show.... into the ground. It was a doomed strategy from the start but no one could get through to him such that he would realize it.
But, from a larger standpoint, I don't think I was commenting on strategy at all. I don't disagree that he's stuck to his "principles" as much as Carter. The difference is (in my opinion) that Carter actually believed in his principles. He was arguably the worst president of my lifetime (and I am a liberal's liberal) but that failure was guided by principles that he held dearly. Those principles have been much more effective in private service than they were in public service. You can see the difference in their life's works. Trump jumped into a weak Republican party and curb stomped the nerds running for president. 15 years before that he was a democrat. Every step he's made since then has been guided by a desire for power and influence - not any deeply held beliefs. It worked. Hats off to him, but he's not some flawed figure pursuing his ideals - George W is better described that way. He's a personality who craves adulation and power and refuses to take responsibility for anything negative. Full stop.
To say that Trump playing to his base gives him every Republican in Washington is ludicrous. Half of the Republican establishment are never-Trumpers. Paul Ryan was totally anti-Trump. McConnell gives him only what he has to. Weekly Standard,(RIP), National Review are anti-Trump. His base is made up of Tea Partiers, populist Democrats, and some conservative Republicans. I was not at all a Trump fan during the primaries. I never believed he was a conservative. But everything he has done in office points to a person with real conservative principles. Does he make an ass of himself most times that he speaks off the cuff? Yes he does. But no one else who ran as a Republican in 2016 would have accomplished anywhere close to as much as far as a conservative agenda as Trump has. As far as him being a hammer, he hasn't a clue on how to keep the membership in line compared to Harry Reid and Nacny Pelosi.
Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You can't just pretend that all the other years that Trump was Trump didn't exist. He all of a sudden stopped being a pro-choice democrat. How does that lead to him having deeply held political beliefs? Letting Stephen Miller write policy while he watches Fox News doesn't mean he's a true conservative.
which posters strictly get their news from Fox and friends.
Same can be said about all the major orgs, MSNBC and CNN, so stop the crap. They all lie and MSNBC and CNN have an agenda (as does FOX). In case you haven't noticed, all news orgs are just shills and mouth pieces for their party of choice which is why the news orgs have a lower rating than congress.
Not the intended point of the investigation was it? Glad they got Manafort and Cohen for tax evasion, but Tax evasion and lying to investigators is not Russia Collusion - which was Mueller's mandate. Bet they can do the same research on some of congress and get similar results. Yeah, putting Papadopoulos in jail for 14 days is a coup..there are members of the FBI and Clinton's crew that did the exact same thing. McCabe has been referred for criminal investigation by the IG for lying to congress. Hillary lied to the FBI about what was on her server and actually destroyed subpoenaed evidence, but no charges?
Not the intended point of the investigation was it? Glad they got Manafort and Cohen for tax evasion, but Tax evasion and lying to investigators is not Russia Collusion - which was Mueller's mandate. Bet they can do the same research on some of congress and get similar results. Yeah, putting Papadopoulos in jail for 14 days is a coup..there are members of the FBI and Clinton's crew that did the exact same thing. McCabe has been referred for criminal investigation by the IG for lying to congress. Hillary lied to the FBI about what was on her server and actually destroyed subpoenaed evidence, but no charges?
Wrong. That wasn't his mandate. Rosenstein wrote the order which said that any links and/or coordination between the Russian's and anyone else associated with the campaign DJT and ALSO “anything else that comes up directly from the investigation.
And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
is still up, have to say besides being surprised that it is, I'm proud that other than some passive aggressive fly-by's people have disagreed but have been pretty respectful of each other in doing so.
More than on football threads at least. Even the snark/disagreements in here weren't as vicious as football threads and certainly pale in comparison to what you see on social media.
I only mention this because I think we've lost civil discourse in society today, no one has an open mind and many people are on the extremes.
People exhibit fascist behavior (or at worst intolerance) and call out their opposites for being fascists, it makes my head spin, trying to see who is claiming the moral high ground, when everyone contradicts themselves and then twists themselves into s pretzel to justify their position.
I know it's small and probably can get worse before getting deleted, but well done.
People exhibit fascist behavior (or at worst intolerance) and call out their opposites for being fascists, it makes my head spin,
yeah... it really is funny. Just like on college campuses when the kids are screaming about fascism while they are trying to shut down free speech and differing opinions.
RE: RE: RE: How is an investigation that's resulted in Â
Wrong. That wasn't his mandate. Rosenstein wrote the order which said that any links and/or coordination between the Russian's and anyone else associated with the campaign DJT and ALSO “anything else that comes up directly from the investigation.
And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
Please stop acting like where you get news is superior to anyone else's. They are all biased and to keep bringing it up is childish. In fact, I do not get my news from a talk show. The rest of your post is reasonable to discuss.
We will disagree on the true objective of the Mueller's probe, but I agree you are right on the range. The real object was Collusion and Obstruction - but you cannot overlook illegal activity, so anything ancillary flies, too. And I do not have a problem with putting Gates, Manafort or Cohen away - scum. Flynn was a dumbass as everything he did was legal, but he lied to FBI even though the agents wrote he did not. Manafort and Gates were tax evasion and lying to investigators - not Russia(Ukraine??). George P and Flynn were Russia but not what they were looking for. Papadopoulos lied about a date of a meeting (legal meeting)- he got 14 days. Wow major indictment there. Flynn lied about a legal meeting with Kislyak - and even Comey admitted that they scammed him by saying he did not need a lawyer and laughed about it. Quite sad. They tried to go after Sessions for talking with Kislyak at an event when as Senator on the Foreign Affairs Committee(IIRC or whatever committee he was on) it was well within his scope to talk to an ambassador.
If you don't think nitpicking dates and memories is just a scam to squeeze people, you are not telling the truth. I'd bet my bottom dollar you could get 535 members of congress with similar questions - did you ever talk to so and so, or what dates did you speak with so and so. Can you remember every post, text, or email you have written in the past two years on Giants Football? (just an example).
Have to go. Aside from the news org snipe, it was pleasant talking with you.
CNN and MSNBC are just as biased as Fox, but at least Fox hosts don't pretend to not be partisan. Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo are closer to Democratic activists then the objective journalists that CNN claims they are.
RE: RE: RE: How is an investigation that's resulted in Â
And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
Both Tiki and I find it comical that there are people who still believe that the Russians were responsible for Trump getting elected. As if they forced individuals to pull a lever.
Meanwhile, ignored is the fact that the DNC themselves interfered with the election by sabotaging the entire primary election to hand it to Hillary. Anyone else would have beaten Trump. Instead, they block all others from stepping forward and torpedo Bernie.
If you do not think there were others who wanted to run a few years ago, all you need to do is see how many there are already lined up this time.
RE: RE: RE: RE: How is an investigation that's resulted in Â
And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
Both Tiki and I find it comical that there are people who still believe that the Russians were responsible for Trump getting elected. As if they forced individuals to pull a lever.
Meanwhile, ignored is the fact that the DNC themselves interfered with the election by sabotaging the entire primary election to hand it to Hillary. Anyone else would have beaten Trump. Instead, they block all others from stepping forward and torpedo Bernie.
If you do not think there were others who wanted to run a few years ago, all you need to do is see how many there are already lined up this time.
lol. The DNC "interfered" with the election? Weird defense of the Trump team's ties to Russia and their interference. The democrats are actually allowed to make the rules for their own primaries. As you note, it didn't work out well in the election but it was hardly "interference". Bernie might have beaten Trump but he didn't beat HRC - it's that simple.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
Because Graham is scared sh*itless of a primary challenge in 2020, thus him cozying up to Trump. Sad to see a man who once deemed DJT unsuitable for the office being his water boy. A senator from TX comes to mind too. Hey, you accuse my old man of killing JFK/call my wife ugly...that's cool. I'm going to be subservient to you.
Politics aside (if pos) it's odd to say Mueller has strayed from RU Â
- his investigation indicted the specific Russian state hackers who worked with Wikileaks to distribute
- he indicted a literal agent of Russia who was living in DC and interacting in US politics
- Re: manafort a judge ruled last week that he lied to prosecutors about sharing sensitive campaign data with an accused russian agent he worked with for years in ukraine
- his court filings in the Stone indictment claim to have his communications with Wikileaks, which the current admin has even called out as a russian state actor
- he (Mueller) passed off other elements of the investigation (like Cohen) to other jurisdictions since they were unrelated to Russia
That's all information that has passed through the legal system, been approved by the current administrations DOJ, and held up in front of grand juries, federal judges, and on appeals. Have they also brought other provable tax/fraud/foreign lobbying charges as leverage over some of the above? Yes. But he has expressly linked most of his findings and indictments so far to Russian activity.
Again, forgetting the political theater or insinuations of whatever it means, if there can't be faith in facts that have been proven through the legal system to this point it would seem to be a very bad sign for the country that there will ever be a shared set of facts on anything.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
I don't disagree with any of this. I'll just say that the problem that the Republican Party has is that Trump is the biggest star the party has ever had and his base is fiercely active and loyal. So, if you go against Trump he can get you primaried out of town. That's why it's rare that any republican disagrees with him publicly and one in a leadership position disagreeing with him is unheard of. So sure, a few moderates have disagreed and even voted against him. But the leadership has given him anything he wants.
It's amazing that Republicans are going along with this emergency declaration the way they are. You know most of them disagree with it (not the wall, the declaration) completely but the power of the President brings them in line.
The echo chamber argument is a little simplistic. The idea of a news medium also playing the part of commentator is not new or some existential threat. Take a look at the news business and function during the founding of this country -- not incredibly different than today. The history of the world is full of successful ideologues.
The logical fallacy is that public discourse on politics and by extension government should be in the business of "healing" or "reconciliation." That's funny as shit.
Government exists to solve practical issues for the public, and to further their liberty and happiness.
It has and never will be an exercise in healing, or defending the social fabric. That must come from other mechanisms, politics and government have never achieved that.
The primary issue in American politics and government is that fact-based, truthful positioning is becoming less required.
Public figures, private discussion, and media all seem to be less beholden to that foundation.
That's the scary as shit part of all of it.
RE: Politics aside (if pos) it's odd to say Mueller has strayed from RU Â
- his investigation indicted the specific Russian state hackers who worked with Wikileaks to distribute
- he indicted a literal agent of Russia who was living in DC and interacting in US politics
- Re: manafort a judge ruled last week that he lied to prosecutors about sharing sensitive campaign data with an accused russian agent he worked with for years in ukraine
- his court filings in the Stone indictment claim to have his communications with Wikileaks, which the current admin has even called out as a russian state actor
- he (Mueller) passed off other elements of the investigation (like Cohen) to other jurisdictions since they were unrelated to Russia
That's all information that has passed through the legal system, been approved by the current administrations DOJ, and held up in front of grand juries, federal judges, and on appeals. Have they also brought other provable tax/fraud/foreign lobbying charges as leverage over some of the above? Yes. But he has expressly linked most of his findings and indictments so far to Russian activity.
Again, forgetting the political theater or insinuations of whatever it means, if there can't be faith in facts that have been proven through the legal system to this point it would seem to be a very bad sign for the country that there will ever be a shared set of facts on anything.
Well said....and points to the real danger in all of this, a complete full frontal assault on truth and facts, it's insidious and unfortunately effective.
The primary issue in American politics and government is that fact-based, truthful positioning is becoming less required.
Public figures, private discussion, and media all seem to be less beholden to that foundation.
That's the scary as shit part of all of it.
Agree entirely. There is a fog of war from the over-saturation of every form of media around us and far too many are embracing that fog to drift further into deception - across all sides.
Ironically enough 1 of the people who seems to be finding consequences for his actions is the empire star. It's certainly not perfect but our justice system seems to be the last vestige of accountability.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
I don't disagree with any of this. I'll just say that the problem that the Republican Party has is that Trump is the biggest star the party has ever had and his base is fiercely active and loyal. So, if you go against Trump he can get you primaried out of town. That's why it's rare that any republican disagrees with him publicly and one in a leadership position disagreeing with him is unheard of. So sure, a few moderates have disagreed and even voted against him. But the leadership has given him anything he wants.
It's amazing that Republicans are going along with this emergency declaration the way they are. You know most of them disagree with it (not the wall, the declaration) completely but the power of the President brings them in line.
Offhand, I can't think of any GOP Senator whogot primaried, certainly not who got primaried and lost. Flake and Corker both dropped out. Flake's seat was won by McSally, who is more liberal than he was. And the Rep.Senatorial CC, led by McConnell, poured money in to support every incumbent who might have an intra-party problem, starting with the special election in Alabama.
Please name a few items that the leadership has passed legislation on to placate Trump. He's constantly fighting with them over big spending bills that he always ends up signing. They have all publicly supported Mueller and Rosenstein. Many opposed his NAFTA renegotiation and his tarriffs. They oppose pulling out of Syria and Afghanistan, they oppose cutting back on NATO. Almost everything he's accomplished has been by executive order. The Senate has confirmed a bunch of his judges, but their are still a ton of judges and other federal appointments being held up in the Republican controlled pipeline, many for well over a year.
Ironically enough 1 of the people who seems to be finding consequences for his actions is the empire star. It's certainly not perfect but our justice system seems to be the last vestige of accountability.
If he ends up spending a minute in jail, I will gladly eat a very large crow
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
I don't disagree with any of this. I'll just say that the problem that the Republican Party has is that Trump is the biggest star the party has ever had and his base is fiercely active and loyal. So, if you go against Trump he can get you primaried out of town. That's why it's rare that any republican disagrees with him publicly and one in a leadership position disagreeing with him is unheard of. So sure, a few moderates have disagreed and even voted against him. But the leadership has given him anything he wants.
It's amazing that Republicans are going along with this emergency declaration the way they are. You know most of them disagree with it (not the wall, the declaration) completely but the power of the President brings them in line.
Offhand, I can't think of any GOP Senator whogot primaried, certainly not who got primaried and lost. Flake and Corker both dropped out. Flake's seat was won by McSally, who is more liberal than he was. And the Rep.Senatorial CC, led by McConnell, poured money in to support every incumbent who might have an intra-party problem, starting with the special election in Alabama.
Please name a few items that the leadership has passed legislation on to placate Trump. He's constantly fighting with them over big spending bills that he always ends up signing. They have all publicly supported Mueller and Rosenstein. Many opposed his NAFTA renegotiation and his tarriffs. They oppose pulling out of Syria and Afghanistan, they oppose cutting back on NATO. Almost everything he's accomplished has been by executive order. The Senate has confirmed a bunch of his judges, but their are still a ton of judges and other federal appointments being held up in the Republican controlled pipeline, many for well over a year.
McSally actually lost to the election to Democrat Kyrsten Sinema. McSally was named to replace Jon Kyl after he stepped down 12/31, Kyl replaced McCain.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
Offhand, I can't think of any GOP Senator whogot primaried, certainly not who got primaried and lost. Flake and Corker both dropped out. Flake's seat was won by McSally, who is more liberal than he was.
McSally actually lost to the election to Democrat Kyrsten Sinema. McSally was named to replace Jon Kyl after he stepped down 12/31, Kyl replaced McCain.
Yes, poor wording on my part. I meant to say that McSally won the primary for Flake's seat. She was supported by both Trump and McConnell against the 2 conservative candidates, Sheriff Joe and Kelli Ward. Being in AZ, I'm only too aware that she lost to Synema. She's going to lose the McCain seat also when she has to run in 2 years unless she gets knocked out in a primary. She's got a moderate record and is a lousy campaigner. I don't see conservatives coming out for her in the general
That’s BS. Plain and simple. Cuomo? Yes he’s “just as biased” as Hannity and Tucker and the rest. Wrong. Not close. Even Lemon. Not close to that crew.
Anyway...unbelievable this guy is sticking to his story. It was never going to end well but he’s going to make it worse.
That’s BS. Plain and simple. Cuomo? Yes he’s “just as biased” as Hannity and Tucker and the rest. Wrong. Not close. Even Lemon. Not close to that crew.
Anyway...unbelievable this guy is sticking to his story. It was never going to end well but he’s going to make it worse.
I would agree with you on guys like Cooper, King, Jones, and even Tapper.
But Don Lemon is the worst. He shouldnt even be allowed on TV.
either intentionally or ignorantly compare opinion talk show hosts like Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity with "journalists" like Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo and Brian Stetler. Fox news reporters are Shepard Smith, Brett Baier - etc. so if you want to compare journalists that's who you use from Fox.
One of those groups are hired to provide opinions, one is hired to report the news. Anyone defending Don Lemon's objectivity as a news reporter is part of the problem, not the solution.
Again, people have opinions and their confirmation bias leads them to be more likely to believe tweets, stories, rumors, "news" that matches their opinions. It's hard to break out of that. It's human nature. For all people, not just liberals or not just conservatives.
But people who report news are supposed to be objective and report facts, but what Lara Logan said is probably more true than not, and sure, it's probably some confirmation bias from me being willing to believe Lara, but facts are facts and 85% of journalists are registered democrats. I think that hurts them with their objectivity and while the word of Lara Logan isn't gospel, but I believe her to be more in tune with reality on this than most of us.
Quote:
“Although the media has always been left-leaning, we’ve abandoned our pretense or at least the effort to be objective today. We’ve become political activists, and some could argue propagandists, and there’s some merit to that,” Logan added. “Standards are out the window, I mean you read one story after another or hear it and it’s all based on one anonymous administration official, former administration official. That’s not journalism, that’s horseshit.”
That’s BS. Plain and simple. Cuomo? Yes he’s “just as biased” as Hannity and Tucker and the rest. Wrong. Not close. Even Lemon. Not close to that crew.
Anyway...unbelievable this guy is sticking to his story. It was never going to end well but he’s going to make it worse.
This is why the left and right can hardly have a civil conversation anymore. We see things through such totally different lenses. I have no idea how it ever gets better. But Trump didn't start this. Divisions over political correctness, identity politics, climate change, etc. go back way before he came on the scene. He hasn't made anything better, but other than capitulating I don't know how anyone could. Obama certainly didn't help with healing on any of this stuff, and if people think he tried to, well, there's that schism again :).
either intentionally or ignorantly compare opinion talk show hosts like Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity with "journalists" like Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo and Brian Stetler. Fox news reporters are Shepard Smith, Brett Baier - etc. so if you want to compare journalists that's who you use from Fox.
One of those groups are hired to provide opinions, one is hired to report the news. Anyone defending Don Lemon's objectivity as a news reporter is part of the problem, not the solution.
Again, people have opinions and their confirmation bias leads them to be more likely to believe tweets, stories, rumors, "news" that matches their opinions. It's hard to break out of that. It's human nature. For all people, not just liberals or not just conservatives.
But people who report news are supposed to be objective and report facts, but what Lara Logan said is probably more true than not, and sure, it's probably some confirmation bias from me being willing to believe Lara, but facts are facts and 85% of journalists are registered democrats. I think that hurts them with their objectivity and while the word of Lara Logan isn't gospel, but I believe her to be more in tune with reality on this than most of us.
Quote:
“Although the media has always been left-leaning, we’ve abandoned our pretense or at least the effort to be objective today. We’ve become political activists, and some could argue propagandists, and there’s some merit to that,” Logan added. “Standards are out the window, I mean you read one story after another or hear it and it’s all based on one anonymous administration official, former administration official. That’s not journalism, that’s horseshit.”
Thanks PJ, that's generally what I was trying to get across with my post
Second off, it's laughable that anyone can claim the Mueller investigation is a "joke", or that Trump's tax cuts and trade deals are somehow big winners.
It's even more laughable that people think that man has the mental capacity to actually think any of this through.
Seriously sad how brainwashed some people are here by Fox News. This disgusting, infantile man is assaulting our institutions and constitutions and somehow people defend it. Pathetic.
RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
Can agree with your first line. Trump sure has been truer to his core beliefs, which are:
1) Running the country like a crime boss
2) Enriching himself
3) Feeding his ego
4) Spewing hate and division
5) Having a complex about anything related to Obama
6) Separating the US from our allies abroad
That's it. Those are his core beliefs.
What a national embarrassment.
RE: RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
Can agree with your first line. Trump sure has been truer to his core beliefs, which are:
1) Running the country like a crime boss
2) Enriching himself
3) Feeding his ego
4) Spewing hate and division
5) Having a complex about anything related to Obama
6) Separating the US from our allies abroad
That's it. Those are his core beliefs.
What a national embarrassment.
Good grief. Give it a rest already. But remember Fox news brainwashes people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is why the left and right can hardly have a civil conversation anymore.
Bill...I’m Republican. Not about lenses here. The idea that CNN is on par with Fox and friends, Hannity, and the rest of those clowns is a joke. It’s not close.
Dep....Lemon? Not for me. But even that guy isn’t close to the jokers on Fox.
My vote for our current President and my current unwavering support for him has not been swayed by some unseen force.
Stop assuming all Right rely on Fox News.
I don't assume all Left rely on CNN.
Because I assume a few of them at least are just like me and only watch the local news or whatever the antennae and weather allow me to and make grown up decisions by myself.
RE: RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
Can agree with your first line. Trump sure has been truer to his core beliefs, which are:
1) Running the country like a crime boss
2) Enriching himself
3) Feeding his ego
4) Spewing hate and division
5) Having a complex about anything related to Obama
6) Separating the US from our allies abroad
either intentionally or ignorantly compare opinion talk show hosts like Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity with "journalists" like Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo and Brian Stetler. Fox news reporters are Shepard Smith, Brett Baier - etc. so if you want to compare journalists that's who you use from Fox.
The format of Lemon's, Cuomo's, and Stetler's shows are not the straight news format of Smith's or Baier's.
Fox News has maintained the News Report and Special Report as straight news programs. Those three at CNN host a blended news and talk format, which by design has much more commentary.
I think their viewing audience knows what they are getting into.
than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
Can agree with your first line. Trump sure has been truer to his core beliefs, which are:
1) Running the country like a crime boss
2) Enriching himself
3) Feeding his ego
4) Spewing hate and division
5) Having a complex about anything related to Obama
6) Separating the US from our allies abroad
That's it. Those are his core beliefs.
What a national embarrassment.
Good grief. Give it a rest already. But remember Fox news brainwashes people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh fuck off. I'm not normalizing this dipshit, I never have, and never will.
If you think this is normal, you're a fucking moron, full stop.
You deserve to wear your MAGA hat like a fucking scarlet letter for the rest of eternity. Despicable.
RE: RE: RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
Can agree with your first line. Trump sure has been truer to his core beliefs, which are:
1) Running the country like a crime boss
2) Enriching himself
3) Feeding his ego
4) Spewing hate and division
5) Having a complex about anything related to Obama
6) Separating the US from our allies abroad
That's it. Those are his core beliefs.
What a national embarrassment.
Good grief. Give it a rest already. But remember Fox news brainwashes people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, prove me wrong. Let's pull out some quotes from the Narcsissist Dipshit in Chief literally said today "I have very nice language". Yeah, that's the type of commentary and oration I expect from the President of the fucking United States.
You're a fucking idiot if you think this guy is qualified to lead in anyway.
Trump supporters are either stupid, racist, greedy, willfully ignorant, or some combination of those.
than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
Can agree with your first line. Trump sure has been truer to his core beliefs, which are:
1) Running the country like a crime boss
2) Enriching himself
3) Feeding his ego
4) Spewing hate and division
5) Having a complex about anything related to Obama
6) Separating the US from our allies abroad
That's it. Those are his core beliefs.
What a national embarrassment.
Good grief. Give it a rest already. But remember Fox news brainwashes people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, prove me wrong. Let's pull out some quotes from the Narcsissist Dipshit in Chief literally said today "I have very nice language". Yeah, that's the type of commentary and oration I expect from the President of the fucking United States.
You're a fucking idiot if you think this guy is qualified to lead in anyway.
Trump supporters are either stupid, racist, greedy, willfully ignorant, or some combination of those.
I would also add blinded and consumed by their hatred of the other “team”....this is exactly what brought about this colossal calamity and maintains it.
The conversation was civil. Looks like that has just taken a drastic turn the other way. Anyhow to stay on topic. If the rumors are the that he did this to not get written out if the show, it accomplished the opposite. They are cutting him from the remaining episodes this year.
The conversation was civil. Looks like that has just taken a drastic turn the other way. Anyhow to stay on topic. If the rumors are the that he did this to not get written out if the show, it accomplished the opposite. They are cutting him from the remaining episodes this year.
I'm sorry, but civility is normalization at this point.
RE: RE: Well I was impressed that even though this became political Â
The conversation was civil. Looks like that has just taken a drastic turn the other way. Anyhow to stay on topic. If the rumors are the that he did this to not get written out if the show, it accomplished the opposite. They are cutting him from the remaining episodes this year.
I'm sorry, but civility is normalization at this point.
Dude -- there are endless venues to blow off your steam about the president.
You are a moment-by-moment example of why politics can't mix with this board.
You certainly didn't start it, but come on brother, what are you getting out of this?
We should be able to have discussions on current events and analyze how they are viewed without devolving into a Yahoo News comments section.
RE: RE: RE: Well I was impressed that even though this became political Â
The conversation was civil. Looks like that has just taken a drastic turn the other way. Anyhow to stay on topic. If the rumors are the that he did this to not get written out if the show, it accomplished the opposite. They are cutting him from the remaining episodes this year.
I'm sorry, but civility is normalization at this point.
Dude -- there are endless venues to blow off your steam about the president.
You are a moment-by-moment example of why politics can't mix with this board.
You certainly didn't start it, but come on brother, what are you getting out of this?
We should be able to have discussions on current events and analyze how they are viewed without devolving into a Yahoo News comments section.
Blowing off steam. Don't expect any of this brainwashed sheep to be convinced, but god damn, I'm happy to tell them they are stupid. Don't really care if I get banned either, this board is dead as fuck.
20 years from now, I'll look at myself in the mirror and be proud I told every Trump supporter to go fuck themselves. I never stood for any of this, and I'm proud as fuck to say that.
Somehow, people here can convince themselves that a man who's campaign colluded with the RUSSIANS to win an election who then purges the FBI and DOJ is somehow good for the country. It's pathetic and these people should be called the fuck out.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Well I was impressed that even though this became political Â
The conversation was civil. Looks like that has just taken a drastic turn the other way. Anyhow to stay on topic. If the rumors are the that he did this to not get written out if the show, it accomplished the opposite. They are cutting him from the remaining episodes this year.
I'm sorry, but civility is normalization at this point.
Dude -- there are endless venues to blow off your steam about the president.
You are a moment-by-moment example of why politics can't mix with this board.
You certainly didn't start it, but come on brother, what are you getting out of this?
We should be able to have discussions on current events and analyze how they are viewed without devolving into a Yahoo News comments section.
Blowing off steam. Don't expect any of this brainwashed sheep to be convinced, but god damn, I'm happy to tell them they are stupid. Don't really care if I get banned either, this board is dead as fuck.
20 years from now, I'll look at myself in the mirror and be proud I told every Trump supporter to go fuck themselves. I never stood for any of this, and I'm proud as fuck to say that.
Somehow, people here can convince themselves that a man who's campaign colluded with the RUSSIANS to win an election who then purges the FBI and DOJ is somehow good for the country. It's pathetic and these people should be called the fuck out.
That's really awesome. But for the rest of who a) haven't posited an opinion on the president and b) would prefer to have discussions without getting dry humped by your politics can you please cut it out?
And I promise you 20 years from now, munging up threads on a football website won't be a source of pride for you -- you'll have much bigger things to be proud of I hope.
The conversation was civil. Looks like that has just taken a drastic turn the other way. Anyhow to stay on topic. If the rumors are the that he did this to not get written out if the show, it accomplished the opposite. They are cutting him from the remaining episodes this year.
I'm sorry, but civility is normalization at this point.
Dude -- there are endless venues to blow off your steam about the president.
You are a moment-by-moment example of why politics can't mix with this board.
You certainly didn't start it, but come on brother, what are you getting out of this?
We should be able to have discussions on current events and analyze how they are viewed without devolving into a Yahoo News comments section.
Blowing off steam. Don't expect any of this brainwashed sheep to be convinced, but god damn, I'm happy to tell them they are stupid. Don't really care if I get banned either, this board is dead as fuck.
20 years from now, I'll look at myself in the mirror and be proud I told every Trump supporter to go fuck themselves. I never stood for any of this, and I'm proud as fuck to say that.
Somehow, people here can convince themselves that a man who's campaign colluded with the RUSSIANS to win an election who then purges the FBI and DOJ is somehow good for the country. It's pathetic and these people should be called the fuck out.
That's really awesome. But for the rest of who a) haven't posited an opinion on the president and b) would prefer to have discussions without getting dry humped by your politics can you please cut it out?
And I promise you 20 years from now, munging up threads on a football website won't be a source of pride for you -- you'll have much bigger things to be proud of I hope.
Nobody is stopping you from discussing anything you want. Feel free to ignore my posts.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Well I was impressed that even though this became political Â
20 years from now, I'll look at myself in the mirror and be proud I told every Trump supporter to go fuck themselves.
you are a prime example of how and why Trump was elected. Most people who voted for Trump are not necessarily "Trump Supporters".
If you remember when Obama was running for POTUS the first time, the mantra was to elect him because the country did not need another 4 years of Bush policies. So, that was PART of the reason then.
Trump was elected because the DNC put a candidate up against him who already had PROVEN to be untrustworthy in POLITICS and she was linked to closely to her husband.
He was elected because the middle class worker was ignored for years and he connected with them while Hillary was focusing on the left and right coast states that she already won.
He was also elected because people were done being labeled as racist because you did not agree with Obama's policies. The identity politics that Obama started then pushed more people to to the polls who likely would have stayed home. Trump won states that were traditionally voting the other way.
So, you and the upcoming DNC nominees can continue with your usual talking points. Claiming that a large group of white people are racist Trump supporters, calling people stupid and more... and then you will be wondering why they did not vote for a socialist democrat.
Both you and those to the extreme right think you are smarter than everyone else when in reality YOU are the fucking sheep.
I am going to sit back and watch this shit storm for the next two years like TO with a bucket of popcorn. The candidates to the left doing everything they can to create a greater divide via identity politics often contradicting things they said just days before.... and then Trump with his ridiculous tweets and stupid comments basically sabotaging his own ability to win the next election.
Watching you and others will be fun
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Well I was impressed that even though this became political Â
20 years from now, I'll look at myself in the mirror and be proud I told every Trump supporter to go fuck themselves.
you are a prime example of how and why Trump was elected. Most people who voted for Trump are not necessarily "Trump Supporters".
If you remember when Obama was running for POTUS the first time, the mantra was to elect him because the country did not need another 4 years of Bush policies. So, that was PART of the reason then.
Trump was elected because the DNC put a candidate up against him who already had PROVEN to be untrustworthy in POLITICS and she was linked to closely to her husband.
He was elected because the middle class worker was ignored for years and he connected with them while Hillary was focusing on the left and right coast states that she already won.
He was also elected because people were done being labeled as racist because you did not agree with Obama's policies. The identity politics that Obama started then pushed more people to to the polls who likely would have stayed home. Trump won states that were traditionally voting the other way.
So, you and the upcoming DNC nominees can continue with your usual talking points. Claiming that a large group of white people are racist Trump supporters, calling people stupid and more... and then you will be wondering why they did not vote for a socialist democrat.
Both you and those to the extreme right think you are smarter than everyone else when in reality YOU are the fucking sheep.
I am going to sit back and watch this shit storm for the next two years like TO with a bucket of popcorn. The candidates to the left doing everything they can to create a greater divide via identity politics often contradicting things they said just days before.... and then Trump with his ridiculous tweets and stupid comments basically sabotaging his own ability to win the next election.
Watching you and others will be fun
The left is driving the greater divide? I'm not sure you have that right. The divide is being driven hard from both sides and Trump rode it harder than any candidate I've seen in my 33 short years on this planet.
I think the whole media thing in 2016 was a national embarrassment. Â
So much coverage/ink/segments devoted to HRC's emails & not the issues. And now we're seeing it again with trivial issues like Warren's DNA test, Harris talking about smoking pot while listening to Tupac, Klobuchar's treatment of her staff...
How about the issues? Climate change? Health care? Economy? Guns? Voting rights? Drugs?
a few on the left use the word socialist, many on the right are stupid enough not to know what socialism is. Every country has guaranteed healthcare, so I guess everyone is socialist. ReallY, how naive. I guess moving from fossil fuels to more renewable energy is socialist also. I guess having people who make their living on the stock market pay the same rate as wages is also socialist. I guess we can call the right fascists because of Trump.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Well I was impressed that even though this became political Â
20 years from now, I'll look at myself in the mirror and be proud I told every Trump supporter to go fuck themselves.
you are a prime example of how and why Trump was elected. Most people who voted for Trump are not necessarily "Trump Supporters".
If you remember when Obama was running for POTUS the first time, the mantra was to elect him because the country did not need another 4 years of Bush policies. So, that was PART of the reason then.
Trump was elected because the DNC put a candidate up against him who already had PROVEN to be untrustworthy in POLITICS and she was linked to closely to her husband.
He was elected because the middle class worker was ignored for years and he connected with them while Hillary was focusing on the left and right coast states that she already won.
He was also elected because people were done being labeled as racist because you did not agree with Obama's policies. The identity politics that Obama started then pushed more people to to the polls who likely would have stayed home. Trump won states that were traditionally voting the other way.
So, you and the upcoming DNC nominees can continue with your usual talking points. Claiming that a large group of white people are racist Trump supporters, calling people stupid and more... and then you will be wondering why they did not vote for a socialist democrat.
Both you and those to the extreme right think you are smarter than everyone else when in reality YOU are the fucking sheep.
I am going to sit back and watch this shit storm for the next two years like TO with a bucket of popcorn. The candidates to the left doing everything they can to create a greater divide via identity politics often contradicting things they said just days before.... and then Trump with his ridiculous tweets and stupid comments basically sabotaging his own ability to win the next election.
Watching you and others will be fun
Nah, Trump was elected because people are stupid. There is not one reasonable person who can accurately think he has the mental capacity, intelligence, or temperament to be POTUS.
You wanna try and stick it to me by voting for Trump? Then you're stupid.
Also, don't get this twisted -- I was not like this until this dipshit ran for office. My view towards him and his zealot supporters is a direct reaction to his campaign and presidency.
So don't blame sane people who hate Trump for his election.
Mexicans are rapists. Yeah, uh, that's racist. Let's not forget about calling for the Central Park 5 executions. Or the lawsuit about not renting to black people. Or the insinuation that the Muslim mother of a dead American soldier wasn't allowed to speak, because she's a Muslim.
Speaking of the military, gotta love President Bone Spurs shitting on an American war hero like John McCain, who, despite my dislike for his politics, gave more to this country than any of us.
Trump is a pig.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Well I was impressed that even though this became political Â
20 years from now, I'll look at myself in the mirror and be proud I told every Trump supporter to go fuck themselves.
you are a prime example of how and why Trump was elected. Most people who voted for Trump are not necessarily "Trump Supporters".
If you remember when Obama was running for POTUS the first time, the mantra was to elect him because the country did not need another 4 years of Bush policies. So, that was PART of the reason then.
Trump was elected because the DNC put a candidate up against him who already had PROVEN to be untrustworthy in POLITICS and she was linked to closely to her husband.
He was elected because the middle class worker was ignored for years and he connected with them while Hillary was focusing on the left and right coast states that she already won.
He was also elected because people were done being labeled as racist because you did not agree with Obama's policies. The identity politics that Obama started then pushed more people to to the polls who likely would have stayed home. Trump won states that were traditionally voting the other way.
So, you and the upcoming DNC nominees can continue with your usual talking points. Claiming that a large group of white people are racist Trump supporters, calling people stupid and more... and then you will be wondering why they did not vote for a socialist democrat.
Both you and those to the extreme right think you are smarter than everyone else when in reality YOU are the fucking sheep.
I am going to sit back and watch this shit storm for the next two years like TO with a bucket of popcorn. The candidates to the left doing everything they can to create a greater divide via identity politics often contradicting things they said just days before.... and then Trump with his ridiculous tweets and stupid comments basically sabotaging his own ability to win the next election.
Watching you and others will be fun
Great post.
RE: I think the whole media thing in 2016 was a national embarrassment. Â
So much coverage/ink/segments devoted to HRC's emails & not the issues. And now we're seeing it again with trivial issues like Warren's DNA test, Harris talking about smoking pot while listening to Tupac, Klobuchar's treatment of her staff...
How about the issues? Climate change? Health care? Economy? Guns? Voting rights? Drugs?
This is where the distinction between media and news is important.
There's never been a time in the history of the Western world where public commentary hasn't been tilted and biased. It has always been like that, by design.
If a public figure, candidate, celebrities etc. wants to engage on substantive discussion on policy, there are a number of news outlets that will report on it and there are a number of commentators who will debate it.
Now you have to ask yourself why do public figures, candidates, celebrities etc. talk in platitudes and present vanilla policy? You probably know the answer.
But there's a garbage in and out with commentators -- if someone wants substantive debate, pump out a stream of substantive proposals.
I been wondering why this thread is still here. It is clearly political. I have always loved the political threads here and wish they were still allowed but I totally understand Eric’s decision. My visits here have decreased since then and I have become more of a lurker just popping in to see team news and a few NFTs of interest.
Could the moderators be checking to see whether such threads could remain civil? Well it was for quite awhile. Now it has dissolved in to namecalling by a few while most try to keep it civil. I hate banning and think it should be done in only extreme circumstances but if it needs to be done to allow threads like this on the board, I am for it.
So much coverage/ink/segments devoted to HRC's emails & not the issues. And now we're seeing it again with trivial issues like Warren's DNA test, Harris talking about smoking pot while listening to Tupac, Klobuchar's treatment of her staff...
How about the issues? Climate change? Health care? Economy? Guns? Voting rights? Drugs?
This is where the distinction between media and news is important.
There's never been a time in the history of the Western world where public commentary hasn't been tilted and biased. It has always been like that, by design.
If a public figure, candidate, celebrities etc. wants to engage on substantive discussion on policy, there are a number of news outlets that will report on it and there are a number of commentators who will debate it.
Now you have to ask yourself why do public figures, candidates, celebrities etc. talk in platitudes and present vanilla policy? You probably know the answer.
But there's a garbage in and out with commentators -- if someone wants substantive debate, pump out a stream of substantive proposals.
If there's 1 major positive that could come out of this period, it's that hopefully in the not too distant future it will be a cautionary tale for people who speak/act extremely recklessly in pursuit of thinking the ends always justify the means. The most recent court defendant this past week certainly seems on track to learning that lesson over the next several decades.
is more interested in guns,abortion, hating non straight non whites, than real issues. I dont know who is responsible for that first being said, but it is spot on. If you want to really discuss issues with a MAGA, first ask if Trump is not a serial liar. If they answer no, dont bother with the discussion.
is more interested in guns,abortion, hating non straight non whites, than real issues. I dont know who is responsible for that first being said, but it is spot on. If you want to really discuss issues with a MAGA, first ask if Trump is not a serial liar. If they answer no, dont bother with the discussion.
If you truly believe the "base" hates non-whites and non-straight people, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Those aren't the words of a reasonable person.
I voted for Trump. I am not interested in “guns,abortion, hating non straight non whites”. We were given a horrible choice for a number of reasons including both being serial liars.
Eli? Tell me the truth about a large percent of the base.
I don't know a single Republican that hates non-whites or non-straight people, and I know 100s of them. I'm sure there are some out there that do, but as in all cases it is the fringes of people that are in every base.
so many overlooked so much....I admire those that can stand for reason and respect without blind allegiances. It is absolutely necessary to speak out on what are obvious truths but this needs to be done with empathy which unfortunately is hard to find these days.
I don't think that's true. The one person I know that I would consider a racist is an uneducated person who could give a crap about politics, in general. He just cares about himself.
It's hard to argue that Trump hasn't tapped into xenophobia Â
when about half of what he talks about is tied directly to that. He's certainly gotten folks that feel the same way excited about it. I'm not sure if that constitutes "the base" but it's kind of a powerful shift right for the Republican party. So, when liberals react to the way he energizes those folks, more moderate republicans get insulted because they feel like it's being declared that all Republicans or Trump voters are racists. That's not the case, clearly. But it's also hard to deny that he's done a bunch of stuff that has gotten the racists pretty fired up.
RE: It's hard to argue that Trump hasn't tapped into xenophobia Â
when about half of what he talks about is tied directly to that. He's certainly gotten folks that feel the same way excited about it. I'm not sure if that constitutes "the base" but it's kind of a powerful shift right for the Republican party. So, when liberals react to the way he energizes those folks, more moderate republicans get insulted because they feel like it's being declared that all Republicans or Trump voters are racists. That's not the case, clearly. But it's also hard to deny that he's done a bunch of stuff that has gotten the racists pretty fired up.
That seems relatively accurate. In fact I would go as far as to say that a lot of the Anti-Trump or Anti-Repulican talk has caused a number of people to get fired up about politics in general. I'd be willing to bet the 2020 election ends with a record turnout on both side.
I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
If there's 1 major positive that could come out of this period, it's that hopefully in the not too distant future it will be a cautionary tale for people who speak/act extremely recklessly in pursuit of thinking the ends always justify the means. The most recent court defendant this past week certainly seems on track to learning that lesson over the next several decades.
Absolutely. The devolving requirement of truth as part of the public square very often portends bad things for a society.
There will always be murkiness, innuendo, caginess etc. but unequivocal fabrication and the corresponding acceptance because it's your team or you support said character in general is cowardice.
It's really not that complicated or sophisticated -- public figures and servants should be held to the very basic 1st grade standard of telling the truth.
I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
This is exactly where I am too, and most of the republicans I know. the left just brandishes all republicans with the racist/homophobe/etc brush to fire up their ever moving farther left base
Mexicans are rapists. Yeah, uh, that's racist. Let's not forget about calling for the Central Park 5 executions. Or the lawsuit about not renting to black people. Or the insinuation that the Muslim mother of a dead American soldier wasn't allowed to speak, because she's a Muslim.
Speaking of the military, gotta love President Bone Spurs shitting on an American war hero like John McCain, who, despite my dislike for his politics, gave more to this country than any of us.
I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
I have a problem with the authoritarianism of this administration to make an end run around congress when convenient and the threat to Constitutional balance between branches. But I unlike many here are consistent and also had a problem with it in the previous administration with the end run around congress on the Iran deal and the pen and phone power to do stuff congress will not approve. Either you age against this type or stuff or not. You can’t pick and choose based on whether your politics agree with the President,
It’s more than just his rhetoric, it’s his actions and policies that Â
many take offense to as well. Turning a blind eye to facts and science and running your administration based on throwing meat to the least common denominator is a piss poor way to run a country, and it has alienated the vast majority of people who aren’t far-right in this country. Tax cuts that have overwhelmingly benefited the super rich, environmental policies that wreck the environment for the benefit of coal, oil, and other energy industries, deregulation that hurts the consumer but benefits large corporations and their ability to influence policy, these are just a few of the many, many examples of why people are up in arms. It amazes me the people that still support him while his policies take a massive shit on their own actual well-being on a literal daily basis.
If you are amongst his “base,” yet you say nothing when he demonizes the press, minorities, lgbt, women, the poor, etc., then, sorry, but you deserve to be pidgeon-holed right along with those marching with neo-nazis. Silence is picking a side, and when you are silent on these issues, you’re telling everyone that you’re okay with things.
I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
I have a problem with the authoritarianism of this administration to make an end run around congress when convenient and the threat to Constitutional balance between branches. But I unlike many here are consistent and also had a problem with it in the previous administration with the end run around congress on the Iran deal and the pen and phone power to do stuff congress will not approve. Either you age against this type or stuff or not. You can’t pick and choose based on whether your politics agree with the President,
Congress passed the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act in 2015, so I’m not sure why this theme of Obama completely bypassing congress on the Iran deal keeps popping up from. Probably because one side eats fake news up like oatmeal at breakfast every morning. Now, I could bring up certain parties attempting to sell nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia without any other support from other branches of government, but why get into reality?
I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
I have a problem with the authoritarianism of this administration to make an end run around congress when convenient and the threat to Constitutional balance between branches. But I unlike many here are consistent and also had a problem with it in the previous administration with the end run around congress on the Iran deal and the pen and phone power to do stuff congress will not approve. Either you age against this type or stuff or not. You can’t pick and choose based on whether your politics agree with the President,
I would agree and think this Congress should address a presidents ability to declare a national emergency. I also never said I was OK with the previous administrations actions bypassing congress but that’s not the point here. The point is that this “end around” is merely one bullet point on a long list of things that, if they were to happen in any other regime, would result in immediate impeachment proceedings yet it only passes as a minor shrug with this administration due to the prolific deception and corruption and their very intentional “flood the zone” strategy.
This thread certainly took a turn. Not surprisingly. Thanks for ruining an otherwise decent thread. You’ve all convinced yourselves you’re somehow morally superior to the other side but it’s incredibly obvious that most of you are nothing more than phsychotic lunatics with some serious issues. Get help.
Holy shit politics suck and really brings out the worst in people. Disgusting.
This thread certainly took a turn. Not surprisingly. Thanks for ruining an otherwise decent thread. You’ve all convinced yourselves you’re somehow morally superior to the other side but it’s incredibly obvious that most of you are nothing more than phsychotic lunatics with some serious issues. Get help.
Holy shit politics suck and really brings out the worst in people. Disgusting.
It’s actually been very civil except for a couple minor outbursts....disgusting?? Hardly...
I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
I have a problem with the authoritarianism of this administration to make an end run around congress when convenient and the threat to Constitutional balance between branches. But I unlike many here are consistent and also had a problem with it in the previous administration with the end run around congress on the Iran deal and the pen and phone power to do stuff congress will not approve. Either you age against this type or stuff or not. You can’t pick and choose based on whether your politics agree with the President,
Congress passed the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act in 2015, so I’m not sure why this theme of Obama completely bypassing congress on the Iran deal keeps popping up from. Probably because one side eats fake news up like oatmeal at breakfast every morning. Now, I could bring up certain parties attempting to sell nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia without any other support from other branches of government, but why get into reality?
it is not as clear as you make it out to be. That is why Trump could dump it without congressional approval. See artocle Link - ( New Window )
I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
I have a problem with the authoritarianism of this administration to make an end run around congress when convenient and the threat to Constitutional balance between branches. But I unlike many here are consistent and also had a problem with it in the previous administration with the end run around congress on the Iran deal and the pen and phone power to do stuff congress will not approve. Either you age against this type or stuff or not. You can’t pick and choose based on whether your politics agree with the President,
Congress passed the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act in 2015, so I’m not sure why this theme of Obama completely bypassing congress on the Iran deal keeps popping up from. Probably because one side eats fake news up like oatmeal at breakfast every morning. Now, I could bring up certain parties attempting to sell nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia without any other support from other branches of government, but why get into reality?
it is not as clear as you make it out to be. That is why Trump could dump it without congressional approval. See artocle Link - ( New Window )
Guess it was too bad the Senate didn’t have the votes needed, right? Let me say that once again for you:
THE SENATE DID NOT HAVE THE VOTES NEEDED
So what did they do instead? Invited fucking Bibi to give a bullshit speech to Congress. Give me a break.
Not to mention the fact that the deal with Iran was actually working, and that there is no border emergency and that this is just an attempt to further line the pockets of Russian oligarchs who export steel to the US.
I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
I have a problem with the authoritarianism of this administration to make an end run around congress when convenient and the threat to Constitutional balance between branches. But I unlike many here are consistent and also had a problem with it in the previous administration with the end run around congress on the Iran deal and the pen and phone power to do stuff congress will not approve. Either you age against this type or stuff or not. You can’t pick and choose based on whether your politics agree with the President,
Congress passed the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act in 2015, so I’m not sure why this theme of Obama completely bypassing congress on the Iran deal keeps popping up from. Probably because one side eats fake news up like oatmeal at breakfast every morning. Now, I could bring up certain parties attempting to sell nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia without any other support from other branches of government, but why get into reality?
it is not as clear as you make it out to be. That is why Trump could dump it without congressional approval. See artocle Link - ( New Window )
Guess it was too bad the Senate didn’t have the votes needed, right? Let me say that once again for you:
THE SENATE DID NOT HAVE THE VOTES NEEDED
So what did they do instead? Invited fucking Bibi to give a bullshit speech to Congress. Give me a break.
Not to mention the fact that the deal with Iran was actually working, and that there is no border emergency and that this is just an attempt to further line the pockets of Russian oligarchs who export steel to the US.
Your angry rant does not reply to the link I provided which supported my original comment about going around Congress which allowed Trump to dump the deal.
wanted the Iran deal. I wouldn't have agreed to it for two reasons. (1) Iran facilitating IEDs and militias killing American servicemen. (2) Iran's refusal to stop calling for elimination of Israel.
Robert Gates - one of the most respected and reasonable cabinet members in recent history basically said - It was right to try to ake a deal but Obama wanted the deal too badly. Think that's pretty fair statement.
He should be punished to the maximum amount the law allows. It's shit like this that hurts and hinders those that may actually have been attacked due to race or sexuality
I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
I have a problem with the authoritarianism of this administration to make an end run around congress when convenient and the threat to Constitutional balance between branches. But I unlike many here are consistent and also had a problem with it in the previous administration with the end run around congress on the Iran deal and the pen and phone power to do stuff congress will not approve. Either you age against this type or stuff or not. You can’t pick and choose based on whether your politics agree with the President,
This would be a fair argument only if you ignore the fact that the previous administration was operating with a Congress that had members of the opposite party in majority control that were not considering or acting on policy proposals, foreign or domestic, in good faith.
It's reasonable to characterize the Iran Deal as an inherently political maneuver by Obama (even though it wasn't executed unilaterally but in conjunction with 5 other major nations), but it has to also be acknowledged that the maneuver was just a progression from the environment that was already in existence in Washington where Congress itself was not functioning outside of a political spectrum. The normal system was broken.
That being said, to even begin comparing Trump's "end around" of Congress to Obama's regarding the Iran issue you would have to have at least some of the same variables in place - which would include the opposite party being in the majority of the Senate (which the Democrats aren't) and an agreement on the failure of the policy from the other 5 countries involved in the deal (which none of them are).
if everything that is out there right now is true, then this guy just alienated himself from literally everyone in the country. Nobody likes a fake victim.
acting on different political beliefs as not acting in good faith. Both sides can play that game. Either you respect the Constitutional division of powers or you don’t.
acting on different political beliefs as not acting in good faith. Both sides can play that game. Either you respect the Constitutional division of powers or you don’t.
But if you’re using “what aboutisms” to argue a point you can’t completely ignore context either as things are very rarely apples to apples.
is that people argue on "principles" but always find a reason to discard that principle when a new situation comes up that makes the principle inconvenient. A rationale is always found to show why the situation is different.
is that people argue on "principles" but always find a reason to discard that principle when a new situation comes up that makes the principle inconvenient. A rationale is always found to show why the situation is different.
Perhaps, but I would argue that you’re conflating one specific example (no matter how similar) to rationalize the acceptance of an administration which truly has no historical comparison by any reasonable measure IMO.
is that people argue on "principles" but always find a reason to discard that principle when a new situation comes up that makes the principle inconvenient. A rationale is always found to show why the situation is different.
Ironically, I think that's what you're doing within this comment itself about political discussions - you're minimizing the objective differences pointed out between two circumstances by describing it as a biased "rationale".
Facts and nuance are important, and THEY should be the thing that everyone should look out for most during conversations like this.
Eli? Tell me the truth about a large percent of the base.
I don't know a single Republican that hates non-whites or non-straight people, and I know 100s of them. I'm sure there are some out there that do, but as in all cases it is the fringes of people that are in every base.
LOL what?
Take a visit to Reddit
I don't think anyone is going to tell another person, Â
He should be punished to the maximum amount the law allows. It's shit like this that hurts and hinders those that may actually have been attacked due to race or sexuality
This is correct. All the other crap is fluff, which party hates this or that, Trump is a racist, Dems are race bating is all crap. Pain and simple when people who make up stories to advance themselves it hurts those who are actually attacked for a specific reason. This should sicken all Americans whenpeople do this. Punish him to the full extent then have leaders from the right and left, men and women, actors, sports stars, teachers etc. speaking out how this is wrong. Then move on.
He might be, he says some really stupid things. I don't know the guy's heart so I really can't tell you.
I don't like Donald Trump, I didn't want to vote for him. I believe in voting for platforms and not personalities and I also believe in the necessity of making a choice in elections.
If you feel he is a racist, that's your opinion and fine with me.
Eli? Tell me the truth about a large percent of the base.
I don't know a single Republican that hates non-whites or non-straight people, and I know 100s of them. I'm sure there are some out there that do, but as in all cases it is the fringes of people that are in every base.
LOL what?
Take a visit to Reddit
I meant people I know, not the cesspool of social media.
Eli? Tell me the truth about a large percent of the base.
I don't know a single Republican that hates non-whites or non-straight people, and I know 100s of them. I'm sure there are some out there that do, but as in all cases it is the fringes of people that are in every base.
LOL what?
Take a visit to Reddit
I meant people I know, not the cesspool of social media.
Cool. The people you know are a very small % and portion of those out there. If you don't "know a single Republican that hates non-straight or non-white people" personally, nobody really gives a shit, being that they are actual neo nazi's running for offie as Republicans in Illinois (this is not hyperbole).
Someone let me know when Trump denounces the Coastie with Â
It isn't relevant to Trump. If you can remotely follow or comprehend a sentence, I said that I was getting this back on topic which was all about Jussie... not Trump.
I mean... the thread is "Empire star may have orchestrated an attack on himself". None of the reports indicated that Trump was there.
So, why the fuck are you asking me what this has to do with Trump?
Lots of Trump Derangement Syndrome on this thread Â
Ultra liberal actor stages hoax to make conservatives look bad. He simultaneously hurts his own causes and emboldens lunatics on the opposite side. In the end, the loonies on both sides continue to shout at each and past each other.
Bringing Trump into it is completely besides the point and irrelevant.
"But but but he tweeted about it hur de hur de hur!"
Who gives a shit? He's been doing this for 2+ years now.
Ultra liberal actor stages hoax to make conservatives look bad. He simultaneously hurts his own causes and emboldens lunatics on the opposite side. In the end, the loonies on both sides continue to shout at each and past each other.
Bringing Trump into it is completely besides the point and irrelevant.
"But but but he tweeted about it hur de hur de hur!"
Who gives a shit? He's been doing this for 2+ years now.
My god people give it a fucking rest.
Anothet example of Trump Derangement Syndrome just popped up.
It isn't relevant to Trump. If you can remotely follow or comprehend a sentence, I said that I was getting this back on topic which was all about Jussie... not Trump.
I mean... the thread is "Empire star may have orchestrated an attack on himself". None of the reports indicated that Trump was there.
So, why the fuck are you asking me what this has to do with Trump?
Lol. I'm not the one who quoted a post and then made a totally irrelevant comment.
Anyway, anyone who thinks that Trump is not a big deal and acting like people are overblowing it have their head in the sand. Doesn't matter - history will not look down kindly on them, and they will be judged accordingly.
the same crowd who bashed Obama for years and takes every excuse to bring up the Clintons is laughable at best. History will be his judge, and it ain’t gonna be kind.
the same crowd who bashed Obama for years and takes every excuse to bring up the Clintons is laughable at best. History will be his judge, and it ain’t gonna be kind.
The Trump Derangement comment does not come from being critical of Trump. There is a hell of a lot to be critical about much of which I have I have taken part in, it comes on when Trump is a target no matter what he says or does. Even if you actually agree, no credit is given but motives are questioned. Or like s few posts above words that he did not say are put in his mouth.
I am not sure about others but logical comments are more convincing to me than hysteria based on hatred.
is that when you're so deranged and out of touch with reality that you actually believe all the garbage he spouts in his tweets (or anywhere else) is the truth?
is that when you're so deranged and out of touch with reality that you actually believe all the garbage he spouts in his tweets (or anywhere else) is the truth?
No. That is the other end of the spectrum from those with Trump Derangement Syndrome. Both extremes not rationale.
RE: RE: At this point the biggest mystery in the Smollett affair, Â
a supporter and non-supporters is that when POTUS calls the media an “enemy of the people” over and over when a story reflects negatively on him...non-supporters see very dangerous rhetoric that can lead to violence (as proven recently) while supporters see a guy who just says stupid things sometimes and they really wish he wouldn’t....and this is just one example, you can view it all within this same template as it really is the bottom line.
haters have been alive. I held my nose when I voted for him, but since I obviously hate women, I had no choice. I never believed he was a conservative in his heart, why would anyone? And whether he really is or not, he's acted like one. But even if he had accomplished nothing, he's accomplished all that I can expect anymore in this country- he's been a sppedbump on our continuing journey to Progressive hell, lol.
Heaven forbid we have a desire for decent living conditions for the citizens of this country. What’s the alternative? Capitalist oligarchy? Be careful what you wish for.
Hope he’s charged.
that thread was deleted, fortunately for many of the people who showed their asses on it.
Yeah, that didn't make sense. When they made the arrests, there were reports that they were investigating him having some involvement, and the police department refuted that. But it certainly seemed weird that the suspects would have assaulted someone the way he'd described.
On the other hand, who would be that insanely stupid to make this up.
Twitter guy:
Charlie De Mar
✔
@CharlieDeMar
chicago.cbslocal
Or Michael Bennett vs. Las Vegas Metro
Quote:
There was a sizeable proportion of people that felt like this was real. If this story didn't raise your bullshit flag I don't know how you make it through life. Maybe you want to subconsciously believe it to be the case for "ammo" idk. But time and time again these far fetched attacks turn out to be hoaxs from the girl who etched B into her head to the kid with the noose on campus.
Or Michael Bennett vs. Las Vegas Metro
Duke LaCross
Twana Braley (ie Al Sharpton)
etc
Just WTF was he thinking this would accomplish.
On the other hand, who would be that insanely stupid to make this up.
It is called acting
Sad, sad mental state of many people
That said, if it's true that he orchestrated this and actually had a hand in it, he should be tried for the exact crimes he's accused his attackers of.
This is how we erase progress. With stunts like these.
Again, I am going to reserve judgement until we have more facts because I'd hate to really go in on criticizing the guy if he really was attacked. But, it's not sounding good for him right now and if he had anything to do with fabricating/making this entire thing up, shame on him. Really despicable and could have had innocent people dealing with legal pitfalls.
This guy should be made an example of to stop these false claims. It’s hurt police and the real victims of crime. Deserves to be charged to the full extent of the law.
Just WTF was he thinking this would accomplish.
I read a rumor somewhere that he was going to be written off the show, and hinted that may have been the motive.
The show runners quickly denied that, but who knows.
Forget the source so can’t link.
Weird story, either way
Just WTF was he thinking this would accomplish.
Yes - that's why this is truly terrible if he really did orchestrate this. Because now it has a trickle down effect where hate crime victims are going to be more apprehensive about coming forward in fear they'll be doubted, or even chastised.
Smollet did a really terrible disservice to progress in this country if he made this up. Disgusting.
He needs to be thrown in jail.
This is the type of bullshit that fuels real racial attacks.
🙄
There's nothing to love about this. Whether he made it up or it really happened, it's terrible either way.
It's incredible the way people value being right or feeling validated over things that actually matter.
the damage done by this and acts like it, regardless of the particulars, is far-reaching.
everything will be a hoax now, until it's not.
this guy should be prosecuted - in a massive way - if they do in fact prove it was a hoax like many people suspected from the beginning and I'm pretty sure the attacks on people who suspected it was a hoax won't be apologized for or retracted.
the damage done by this and acts like it, regardless of the particulars, is far-reaching.
everything will be a hoax now, until it's not.
this guy should be prosecuted - in a massive way - if they do in fact prove it was a hoax like many people suspected from the beginning and I'm pretty sure the attacks on people who suspected it was a hoax won't be apologized for or retracted.
Quote:
somebody would shoot his career in the foot by staging a fake racist/homophobic attack. When I saw the picture of the two guys that supposedly attacked him, the bullshit meter went full tilt. Those two guys would have ripped him apart, big dudes. The rope around the neck thing was double weird. I think anyone in that position would have pulled that off immediately, not let it linger there.
Just WTF was he thinking this would accomplish.
The two guys were extras on the show he is on.
Not only extras, but he worked out with those guys at the gym....
Then, I'll go back to my place, with the little piece of rope still around my neck, and still holding my Subway sandwich. Then I'll report it to the cops, who probably will believe me and won't do any further investigation. Yeah. It'll work.
This could have ended very badly because someone was looking for attention, and doing so by trying to demonize others who's political view differ from their's.
But today if you are in the public eye you are forced to tread lightly on certain positions, just the way it is.
Then, I'll go back to my place, with the little piece of rope still around my neck, and still holding my Subway sandwich. Then I'll report it to the cops, who probably will believe me and won't do any further investigation. Yeah. It'll work.
He should absolutely be charged with a crime. No doubt he will get off without a severe penalty.
Meanwhile, I am just laughing at how anyone could have believed his story. He claimed to have gotten his ass kicked but he never dropped his Subway sandwich to defend himself.
Then, he keeps the noose around his neck the way Flav wears a clock. Who would not take that noose off the moment the attackers fled? That is probably the first thing anyone would do. Totally ridiculous...
Finally.. HE is obviously the racist.
Spicy Italian good call, big fan of the cheesesteak with creamy sriracha sauce. My bathroom isn't though.
But apparently I underestimated his stupidity and desperation. Just pathetic on so many levels. As others mentioned, by doing this he is hurting ACTUAL victims of hate crimes who will be doubted more.
Fact is there is an alarming rise in hate crimes over the last couple of years, this is a real issue that has caused real harm to too many people. This desperate idiot trying to use that for his favor to make himself more popular is not only selfish but dangerous. Fuck this guy and I hope he faces real repercussions from this sad act.
Another episode writes itself.
the damage done by this and acts like it, regardless of the particulars, is far-reaching.
everything will be a hoax now, until it's not.
this guy should be prosecuted - in a massive way - if they do in fact prove it was a hoax like many people suspected from the beginning and I'm pretty sure the attacks on people who suspected it was a hoax won't be apologized for or retracted.
Maybe. But most of the "staged" attacks are done by kids who think it is funny or just want their 15 minutes of social media fame. I know this guy was 32 or whatever but he was trying to keep himself in the limelight and stay on his show.
After 2016 election I remember seeing a news report about a "swazsticka" painted on a synagogue. Only the swazsticka was backwards. The people who stage stuff generally are not that bright and give themselves away.
Think of the man hours wasted on this nitwit. fortunately it's Chicago and the police have nothing better to do.
Quote:
if true, he needs a lot of help.
He needs to be thrown in jail.
This is the type of bullshit that fuels real racial attacks.
This.
Given what we know about him, 12 inch beef is how he rolls.
Cesar Sayac says Hi.
Tell that to Heather Heyer.
Yeah, this isn't accurate either. Let's not fuel existing ignorance with more.
Quote:
with something like this is now when it really happens (and there will be shit like this that happens) it will get scrutinized more and people will push the real victim for proof and they'll be questioned perhaps unfairly.
the damage done by this and acts like it, regardless of the particulars, is far-reaching.
everything will be a hoax now, until it's not.
this guy should be prosecuted - in a massive way - if they do in fact prove it was a hoax like many people suspected from the beginning and I'm pretty sure the attacks on people who suspected it was a hoax won't be apologized for or retracted.
Maybe. But most of the "staged" attacks are done by kids who think it is funny or just want their 15 minutes of social media fame. I know this guy was 32 or whatever but he was trying to keep himself in the limelight and stay on his show.
After 2016 election I remember seeing a news report about a "swazsticka" painted on a synagogue. Only the swazsticka was backwards. The people who stage stuff generally are not that bright and give themselves away.
this is not the point, sure to some it was obvious this did not add up (more people claim this insight now in hindsight than when it was first reported, but whatever) the point is do you have any idea how many prominent people (politicians, celebrities, athletes, media personalities, etc.) commented on this issue and blamed an entire group of people and how far it reached - on social media and traditional media outlets?
now that it's known to likely be a hoax, how far do you think that information will reach? I'll tell you, a fraction of the scope the initial response had.
Do you think all those celebrities, politicians, athletes, and media personas who ran with the initial story will issue retractions or apologies?
No, they will not. The damage is done, even if it was a "kid who thought it would be funny or wanted 15 minutes of fame"
and the real victim will be the actual victim of a real racist or homophobic attack that is questioned unfairly.
and I won't even bother to mention the people falsely persecuted for this incident, some people have already said they deserve it even if this was a hoax, which in a sick sick way is very ironic.
Charles Stuart is probably rotting away in hell right now with a smile on his face.
"The bill, which was introduced in June by Sens. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.), Cory Booker (D-N.J.) and Tim Scott (R-S.C.), had previously passed in the Senate in December".
Both Harris and Booker had mentioned the Smollett incident in tweets backing the bill; Senators Harris, Booker Call Jussie Smollett Attack A ‘Modern-day Lynching’
Harris knows Smollett, he is in videos with her during her campaign. Smollett wore his noose for hours after the attack.-
Coincidence?
TMZ:SMollett turned down extra security days before brutal attack
So, he gets a death threat, but declines extra security, and decides to go out at 02:00am in the middle of a Polar Vortex in Chicago to get a Subway Sandwich. He can't use Uber Eats?
Oh, the Subway sandwich wasn't damaged, apparently after the mugging. Tough city, tougher sandwiches, I guess.
Here's a picture of the two "white" Trump Supporters who supposedly yelled "MAGA Country" (on the right):
By the way, they are from the Trump enclave known as "Nigera" (Nigerians are MAGA supporters, apparently). They are brothers, who were extras on Empire, and Smollett follows them on Twitter. The same guys Jussie claimed he beat off.
Sounds legit, eh?
The Black youtube community is roasting Smollett on Youtube as we speak. The following link is ROFLMAO, just remember it's NSFW (language):
Hoteps Been Told You - Hoteps break down Jussie Smollet
Think of the man hours wasted on this nitwit. fortunately it's Chicago and the police have nothing better to do.
yeah, it's not like they're out there keeping anyone from getting shot, lol
By the way, they are from the Trump enclave known as "Nigera" (Nigerians are MAGA supporters, apparently). They are brothers, who were extras on Empire, and Smollett follows them on Twitter. The same guys Jussie claimed he beat off.
Sounds legit, eh?
The Black youtube community is roasting Smollett on Youtube as we speak. The following link is ROFLMAO, just remember it's NSFW (language):
Hoteps Been Told You - Hoteps break down Jussie Smollet
Isn't that guy on the left DK Metcalf?
However, why is it unbelievable that two black guys couldn't be pro-MAGA?
However, why is it unbelievable that two black guys couldn't be pro-MAGA?
I don't deal in superlatives. It's not unbelievable, it's just unusual. And even if they are pro-MAGA, it wouldn't be a race crime.
This guy should be made an example of to stop these false claims. It’s hurt police and the real victims of crime. Deserves to be charged to the full extent of the law.
I believe it's a felony to lie to police/file false report in Chicago.
However, why is it unbelievable that two black guys couldn't be pro-MAGA?
1) There are plenty of pro-Maga black guys (and women). The odds of them being hired for extras for "Empire" are pretty low, wouldn't you think?
2) CBS2 Chicago: Brothers Questioned By Police Were Paid $3,500 To Stage Attack, Which Was Rehearsed Days Before, Sources Say
However, why is it unbelievable that two black guys couldn't be pro-MAGA?
The dude said in his police statement that the two sounded “white”. Two black men from Nigeria sounded “white” is plausible to you?
Quote:
...about the guy's story.
However, why is it unbelievable that two black guys couldn't be pro-MAGA?
1) There are plenty of pro-Maga black guys (and women). The odds of them being hired for extras for "Empire" are pretty low, wouldn't you think?
2) CBS2 Chicago: Brothers Questioned By Police Were Paid $3,500 To Stage Attack, Which Was Rehearsed Days Before, Sources Say
Depends if political affiliation is on the application! LOL
Regardless, this guy has some issues to do something like this, pretty sad.
Two racist, homophobic, Trump supporters... who also watch Empire were wandering around with a noose and bleach at 2am in -20F and spotted this actor. They yelled about “MAGA country”... in Chicago? He left the noose around his neck for an hour?
Ridiculous.
"The bill, which was introduced in June by Sens. Kamala Harris (D-Calif.), Cory Booker (D-N.J.) and Tim Scott (R-S.C.), had previously passed in the Senate in December".
Both Harris and Booker had mentioned the Smollett incident in tweets backing the bill; Senators Harris, Booker Call Jussie Smollett Attack A ‘Modern-day Lynching’
Harris knows Smollett, he is in videos with her during her campaign. Smollett wore his noose for hours after the attack.-
Coincidence?
TMZ:SMollett turned down extra security days before brutal attack
So, he gets a death threat, but declines extra security, and decides to go out at 02:00am in the middle of a Polar Vortex in Chicago to get a Subway Sandwich. He can't use Uber Eats?
Oh, the Subway sandwich wasn't damaged, apparently after the mugging. Tough city, tougher sandwiches, I guess.
Here's a picture of the two "white" Trump Supporters who supposedly yelled "MAGA Country" (on the right):
By the way, they are from the Trump enclave known as "Nigera" (Nigerians are MAGA supporters, apparently). They are brothers, who were extras on Empire, and Smollett follows them on Twitter. The same guys Jussie claimed he beat off.
Sounds legit, eh?
The Black youtube community is roasting Smollett on Youtube as we speak. The following link is ROFLMAO, just remember it's NSFW (language):
Hoteps Been Told You - Hoteps break down Jussie Smollet
Well to be fair he very well might have beat those guys off... if you know what I mean.
Link - ( New Window )
DNC is getting real desperate, not good.
BillKo : 2/17/2019 7:56 pm : link : reply
...about the guy's story.
However, why is it unbelievable that two black guys couldn't be pro-MAGA?
It's the Nigerian part. What stake do they have in Making Amercia Great Again?
DNC is getting real desperate, not good.
Is any of this necessary or furthering the conversation?
Take a look at how basically everyone else can handle themselves on a subject without acting like a 12-year-old. It's totally possible.
DNC is getting real desperate, not good.
What does this have to do with the DNC?
Not sure why this can't just be one singular human being displaying incredibly poor judgement and doing something despicable on their own accord - no, this was all orchestrated by the DNC somehow.
Give me a break.
DNC is getting real desperate, not good.
How is this dude not banned yet? JFC.
Quote:
There's a lot not to believe....
BillKo : 2/17/2019 7:56 pm : link : reply
...about the guy's story.
However, why is it unbelievable that two black guys couldn't be pro-MAGA?
It's the Nigerian part. What stake do they have in Making America Great Again?
Buy more Nigerian oil?
Bullshit.
What is more likely IMO is this guy was being written out of his show and decided to use the 2018/2019 method of attention whoring aka "become a victim" to try and stay relevant.
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
And it was working. Until he got caught.
And I will say the people who are giddy it's likely a hoax are almost as bad as the rush to judgment crowd. Shit like this helps no one.
Bullshit.
What is more likely IMO is this guy was being written out of his show and decided to use the 2018/2019 method of attention whoring aka "become a victim" to try and stay relevant.
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
And it was working. Until he got caught.
And I will say the people who are giddy it's likely a hoax are almost as bad as the rush to judgment crowd. Shit like this helps no one.
Last line hits on a key/disturbing point - it's like people are borderline giddy over it being BS since they then feel validated in perpetuating the hatred by turning it on him now. It doesn't help anyone.
All anyone needs to do is read any of my comments on this thread and you'll know that I absolutely do NOT condone what Smollett did if he did indeed make this all up/orchestrate it - I think he should have to deal with legal ramifications and whatever negative impact it has on his career.
But turning this into a way to lambast the entire left side isn't helping anyone. Smollett acted on his own accord here. He wasn't put up to this by the DNC. Divisive commentary like that is exactly why we have so many fucking issues here.
And I will say the people who are giddy it's likely a hoax are almost as bad as the rush to judgment crowd. Shit like this helps no one.
Nothing to be gained from bad behavior, either way. Nothing.
Yikes. You really think that?
I'd posit any "seizing" was more about believing someone, and condemning it.
I don't think people of color and the gay community are hot after there being hate crimes.
Maybe everyone should exhibit some patience when questionable events occur, but "wanting it to be true" is a little cynical, no?
But one causes the other. I'm in the "giddy" crowd solely because I absolutely abhor the "rush to judgment" crowd.
In today's age, everyone automatically thinks the worst in everyone else. Even with due process, lives can still be destroyed with such allegations.
Hopefully, incidents such as this will help to quell the madness.
Quote:
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
Yikes. You really think that?
I'd posit any "seizing" was more about believing someone, and condemning it.
I don't think people of color and the gay community are hot after there being hate crimes.
Maybe everyone should exhibit some patience when questionable events occur, but "wanting it to be true" is a little cynical, no?
Their behavior leads me to believe that. Any further comment really makes the thread political (or overtly political when I feel like people have done a solid job so far for the most part of discussing an issue with political undertones), but let's just say I get the sense that things like "believe all women" only really means believe all women when the woman is useful to them.
I don't think this type of thinking is isolated to any one way of thinking, it's probably all the assholes in politics or media or celebrities or athletes, but where are the retractions and apologies? I've seen one half-hearted one.
if they really cared about the truth and the "greater good" they would admit errors or mistakes, not remain silent now that the damage has been done.
but no one cares about the greater good, they only care about their own agendas and their "side".
If that's cynicism, sorry but I'm not sorry. it's the state of our world right now IMO.
Quote:
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
Yikes. You really think that?
I'd posit any "seizing" was more about believing someone, and condemning it.
I don't think people of color and the gay community are hot after there being hate crimes.
Maybe everyone should exhibit some patience when questionable events occur, but "wanting it to be true" is a little cynical, no?
I do agree that people should hold judgement until the facts are in. There is no reason to attack people who say things don’t seem to add up but I will wait for further facts before absolutely believing or not believing.
Quote:
all parties involved going down. The two people he hired are singing like canaries and one of the two assailants acted in Empire! LOL! Also ties to Cumala Harris and Spartacus.
DNC is getting real desperate, not good.
What does this have to do with the DNC?
Not sure why this can't just be one singular human being displaying incredibly poor judgement and doing something despicable on their own accord - no, this was all orchestrated by the DNC somehow.
Give me a break.
True. (And the Arcade guy is a moron). Still, the pattern has been set over the past couple years where isolated individuals become
Representative Of all the the MAGA hat or hat wearers. Heck, I read of a restaurant that refuses to serve anyone wearing a MAGA hat.
It’s a silly society that we live
In now.
Bullshit.
What is more likely IMO is this guy was being written out of his show and decided to use the 2018/2019 method of attention whoring aka "become a victim" to try and stay relevant.
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
And it was working. Until he got caught.
And I will say the people who are giddy it's likely a hoax are almost as bad as the rush to judgment crowd. Shit like this helps no one.
It's fine is you think Nasheed's opinion is BS but don't change his words. He doesn't blame "deep state"; he explicitly lays out connections to 2 actual senators and backs it up with real tweets and quotes.
the facts suggest Smollett initiated the incident 100% on his own, until there are other facts and what Tariq Nasheed offered in his tweets are not facts. they are conspiracy theories.
I wouldn't be surprised of those two politicians have the same social media publisher, they have similar tweets and language frequently, hence my assertion to the deep state.
which I admit, was my own ad-lib, but that's what he's doing.
This is about Smollet being a desperate pathetic man with possible mental health issues.
Yes I believe that, especially of those who tied this “hate crime” to a larger cause..
I do agree that people should hold judgement until the facts are in. There is no reason to attack people who say things don’t seem to add up but I will wait for further facts before absolutely believing or not believing.
I haven't read more than the update articles and a few quotes from reps and celebrities offering support the alleged victim. I admit, I totally might have missed some of the action between sides. There are, sadly obvious profiteers who absolutely do exploit situations to their benefit. I see that.
What I do think is cynical and a little unsophisticated is the generalizing what a whole group's intentions are. I suspect there a number of athletes, celebrities, politicians, and citizens who don't want alleged events like that to be true, and voice their concern toward the cause of ending such actions.
Invalidating a minority group's advocacy because they are "exaggerating, taking advantage of, exploiting ..." is a historically tried and true tactic to silence dissent.
I don't think any majority of a group "wanted this to be true" to further some cause.
Quote:
Hate crimes has been a hoax... why would this be any different?
Cesar Sayac says Hi.
LOL
Quote:
Yes I believe that, especially of those who tied this “hate crime” to a larger cause..
I do agree that people should hold judgement until the facts are in. There is no reason to attack people who say things don’t seem to add up but I will wait for further facts before absolutely believing or not believing.
I haven't read more than the update articles and a few quotes from reps and celebrities offering support the alleged victim. I admit, I totally might have missed some of the action between sides. There are, sadly obvious profiteers who absolutely do exploit situations to their benefit. I see that.
What I do think is cynical and a little unsophisticated is the generalizing what a whole group's intentions are. I suspect there a number of athletes, celebrities, politicians, and citizens who don't want alleged events like that to be true, and voice their concern toward the cause of ending such actions.
Invalidating a minority group's advocacy because they are "exaggerating, taking advantage of, exploiting ..." is a historically tried and true tactic to silence dissent.
I don't think any majority of a group "wanted this to be true" to further some cause.
And I stand by that, and no it's not to silence dissent, quite the opposite in this case. The dissent went the other way, and any one who expressed suspicion of this story when first reported was lazily branded a racist and homophobe (at best, there was much worse).
it's about truth, transparency, self control, the media doing their job and investigating, not simply retweeting or opining (because yes IMO it fits their agenda and support their narrative).
I watched a CNN "pundit" go on the air and claim no reputable news source included the "this is MAGA country" alleged comment from the "perpetrators". All you need to do is search google and you can see many people on CNN doing exactly this in tweet, published, and on-air.
but again, this distracts from my point. It's not why I posted.
this event is damaging on all sides (assuming it is truly a hoax), it hurts minorities, it emboldens future racist attacks and most of all it hurts the next real victim.
What I take intellectual exception to is the notion:
That's pretty scary, and unproductive hyperbole to me.
Misreporting initial facts, slanting the story to a certain direction, sensationalizing the events to make it polarizing all come into play. And it far too often is the Media that makes the situation worse.
The Duke lacrosse example was a great model for this. Initially report that a black woman was trapped in a house with testosterone-filled white athletes, being held against her will and repeatedly raped resulted in all sorts of dominoes to follow.
Appearances in Durham by Sharpton and Jackson. Removal of the coach from the team. Scrutiny of how affluent the players were and how their privilege afforded them high-priced counsel.
All things that could have been avoided if the initial story was fact-checked and not blown up to be a major incident until the vetting process was complete. But the Media saw a chance to report a blockbuster and they ran with it, impacting many, many lives in the process.
What I take intellectual exception to is the notion:
Quote:
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
That's pretty scary, and unproductive hyperbole to me.
And pjacs, if that's not what you meant, I get it. But you missed some words in that sentence then.
What I take intellectual exception to is the notion:
Quote:
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
That's pretty scary, and unproductive hyperbole to me.
You are entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine.
I feel the same way when the tables are turned and it's an issue with someone like say Justin Fairfax or Ralph Northam.
those two people had incidents that turned to be true or likely true, but if they hadn't been true, the opposite to an issue like this one was certainly possible.
I am sure there are other examples. I referenced Charles Stuart earlier in the thread and of course Stuart's crime was not equitable to what Smollett has done in any way, but the reactions by the "power people" were similar.
What I take intellectual exception to is the notion:
Quote:
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
That's pretty scary, and unproductive hyperbole to me.
We are starting to tread on dangerous ground, but it is not hyperbole, I find it to be true. Sides look for anything to advance their agenda, and this was prime real estate for some.
Now of course, it fits the other's agenda.....which in turn, leads to hyperbole.
I wonder if we will ever really know the true reason this was staged. On one level I am sad that this was done and angry on another.
We're in a swing of the pendulum where journalism is being boxed out by sensationalism, and good journalism is being assualted by special interest.
This isn't new or unprecedented -- but it typically doesn't end super well.
The public should be able to believe the facts as presented to the them by the media. When it gets cute, incomplete, or as is the case right now, replaced by anyone with a phone and an opinion, it gets sloppy.
In place of building opinions on facts, too many time it feels like we are building opinions on opinion.
I doubt he see the inside of a jail cell. first he deserves due process, but if he is found guilty of anything, My guess is he claims he's got a substance abuse problem and goes to rehab or a mental issue and seeks professional help and he resurfaces when the dust settles.
Most people aren't jailed for their first one or two DWIs and that's extremely dangerous
Fine is most likely, hopefully it is large enough to make him feel it
He probably won't do time but sending death threats through the USPS that require a hazmat response opens him up to prosecution.
The interview was done for the Mike Drop podcast, with Mike Ritland who if you are not familiar is a really good listen and runs a great organization doing something with service dogs who are "retired".
Some of the quotes are from the linked medialite article.
Link - ( New Window )
Fact is there is an alarming rise in hate crimes over the last couple of years, this is a real issue that has caused real harm to too many people. This desperate idiot trying to use that for his favor to make himself more popular is not only selfish but dangerous. Fuck this guy and I hope he faces real repercussions from this sad act.
that actually isn't a known fact. According to the FBI--reporting is up, but they also state in some changes in reporting and definitions. The data is inconclusive.
the term "known offender" means the victim said they knew the race (or whatever) of the offender, but does not mean it is verified in any way.
just a quick look at years 2014 to 2017 (the only years I looked at); the white offenders dropped from 52 to 50% if that's the narrative you're going for.
anybody who victimizes another person should be prosecuted, but the supply doesn't meet the demand of the grotesque MSM and if it is actually up--it is being fueled by fake news.
https://6abc.com/brothers-told-police-smollett-was-upset-threatening-letter-didnt-get-enough-attention-staged-attack/5143364/
Jussie Smollett attack: Brothers tell police that actor staged attacked after threatening letter did not get enough attention
Quote:
Fact is there is an alarming rise in hate crimes over the last couple of years, this is a real issue that has caused real harm to too many people. This desperate idiot trying to use that for his favor to make himself more popular is not only selfish but dangerous. Fuck this guy and I hope he faces real repercussions from this sad act.
that actually isn't a known fact. According to the FBI--reporting is up, but they also state in some changes in reporting and definitions. The data is inconclusive.
the term "known offender" means the victim said they knew the race (or whatever) of the offender, but does not mean it is verified in any way.
just a quick look at years 2014 to 2017 (the only years I looked at); the white offenders dropped from 52 to 50% if that's the narrative you're going for.
anybody who victimizes another person should be prosecuted, but the supply doesn't meet the demand of the grotesque MSM and if it is actually up--it is being fueled by fake news.
So I'm not sure about the "the FBI also states in some changes in reporting and definitions" sentence of your reply. I was going by the statistics from the FBI's website as well. Maybe you could point it out but I couldn't find them specify that there was a change in the way they reported these hate crimes in 2017 compared to previous years.
You ask what my narrative is and point out that the FBI stats show "white offenders" dropping from 52.0% of the overall total in 2014 to 50.7% in 2017 to disprove my point. Ok, I understand that statistic and it's definitely worthy of being pointed out. But I feel like you left something pretty important out of that equation.
Reported Hate Crime data (FBI)
2017: 6,370 offenders -- 7,175 incidents
2014: 5,192 offenders -- 5,479 incidents
That's a 22.7% increase in overall offenders and a 31.0% increase in reported incidents over a 4 year period. These are the highest reported totals since 2008. My "narrative" is that I said that there was an alarming rise in hate crimes over the last few years. I believe those massive jumps in reported numbers qualifies as alarming.
Reported Hate Crime data (FBI)
2017: 6,370 offenders -- 7,175 incidents
2014: 5,192 offenders -- 5,479 incidents
That's a 22.7% increase in overall offenders and a 31.0% increase in reported incidents over a 4 year period. These are the highest reported totals since 2008. My "narrative" is that I said that there was an alarming rise in hate crimes over the last few years. I believe those massive jumps in reported numbers qualifies as alarming.
The number of police agencies reporting "hate" crimes increased by over 1000 agencies since 2014. That in itself will skew numbers and makes the numbers go up. And who classifies these criminal acts as "hate."
Personally, I think any personal attack is a hate crime. You don't attack people you like. I despise the term hate crime. It serves no purpose except to make some groups feel protected - like they are receiving special service, which they are not - it is ex post facto. This is certainly not to say that there are people that attack others for ethnicity or religious beliefs.
do you listen regularly? He's not super political most of the time or at least not radically political like you may expect from a former Navy Seal. It's usually about dogs, cooking meats, military, etc.
To Lara Logan's point though, I listen often to Mike Drop and pods like that and read sources like that, but just as often I'll listen to Pod Save America or similar pods.
People really need a cross section of sources if they want to avoid an echo chamber and get a better sense of what is actually happening. and some people don't want to avoid an echo chamber and that's fine, but IMO if you want to avoid one seek out many different POV/sources.
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respect his service and expertise re: K9's. But his ideas outside his area of expertise aren't anything special.
do you listen regularly? He's not super political most of the time or at least not radically political like you may expect from a former Navy Seal. It's usually about dogs, cooking meats, military, etc.
To Lara Logan's point though, I listen often to Mike Drop and pods like that and read sources like that, but just as often I'll listen to Pod Save America or similar pods.
People really need a cross section of sources if they want to avoid an echo chamber and get a better sense of what is actually happening. and some people don't want to avoid an echo chamber and that's fine, but IMO if you want to avoid one seek out many different POV/sources.
This is my point of view as well. Although I disagree with one side on more topics then the other side I always listen to both sides. And I actually stop and try and change my view point as best as possible to understand where the other side is coming from just too make sure I'm not crazy or, as you put it, stuck in an echo chamber. I have a rule where if I get caught up somehow listening to Maddow or Hannity, I will turn the other one on to get their side of the picture and then I parse out both of their bull shit and see what my thoughts are in the meat of the topic.
Quote:
respect his service and expertise re: K9's. But his ideas outside his area of expertise aren't anything special.
do you listen regularly? He's not super political most of the time or at least not radically political like you may expect from a former Navy Seal. It's usually about dogs, cooking meats, military, etc.
To Lara Logan's point though, I listen often to Mike Drop and pods like that and read sources like that, but just as often I'll listen to Pod Save America or similar pods.
People really need a cross section of sources if they want to avoid an echo chamber and get a better sense of what is actually happening. and some people don't want to avoid an echo chamber and that's fine, but IMO if you want to avoid one seek out many different POV/sources.
"People really need a cross section of sources if they want to avoid an echo chamber and get a better sense of what is actually happening. and some people don't want to avoid an echo chamber and that's fine, but IMO if you want to avoid one seek out many different POV/sources."
Hear, hear....
What I take intellectual exception to is the notion:
Quote:
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
That's pretty scary, and unproductive hyperbole to me.
From the Washington Post Opt Ed, 02/17/2019
And that reason, more than any other, is why I need this story to be true, despite its ugliness and despite what it would say about the danger of the world I live in. The damage done would be too deep and long-lasting. This could be one tragedy that the Lyon family — and more importantly, the ordinary people who loved the show and invested in Smollett and his character — could never overcome.
link
"Why I need this story to be true". The mask drops again, just like Covington. No matter what the reality, the MSM needs to promote it's narrative, damn the facts, ignore the search for truth, forget about journalistic ethics. Guilt by narrative.
"Democracy dies in Darkness"? Look in the mirror, WaPo...
Here's a good review of the article from Tim Poole
Far Left BEGGING For Jussie Smollett To Be A VICTIM
or any other singular source (which I think was someone's point above).
Quote:
.
or any other singular source (which I think was someone's point above).
Absolutely. And click through to the source article from that scandalously headlined blog post someone posted on Facebook. It's usually not even close to what the headline states.
lonk - ( New Window )
Quote:
I don't disagree there is a group with motivations who exploit hot button issues to further agendas.
What I take intellectual exception to is the notion:
Quote:
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
That's pretty scary, and unproductive hyperbole to me.
From the Washington Post Opt Ed, 02/17/2019
Quote:
If Smollett’s story is found to be untrue, it will cause irreparable damage to the communities most affected. Smollett would be the first example skeptics cite when they say we should be dubious of victims who step forward to share their experiences of racist hate crimes or sexual violence. The incident would be touted as proof that there is a leftist conspiracy to cast Trump supporters as violent, murderous racists. It would be the very embodiment of “fake news.”
And that reason, more than any other, is why I need this story to be true, despite its ugliness and despite what it would say about the danger of the world I live in. The damage done would be too deep and long-lasting. This could be one tragedy that the Lyon family — and more importantly, the ordinary people who loved the show and invested in Smollett and his character — could never overcome.
link
"Why I need this story to be true". The mask drops again, just like Covington. No matter what the reality, the MSM needs to promote it's narrative, damn the facts, ignore the search for truth, forget about journalistic ethics. Guilt by narrative.
"Democracy dies in Darkness"? Look in the mirror, WaPo...
Here's a good review of the article from Tim Poole
Far Left BEGGING For Jussie Smollett To Be A VICTIM
Smolette also has ties to Fancy Bear, Konstantin Kilimnik's hacker group that stole Hillary's e-mails. He's beleived to be the real sorce of the Wikileak's dump and is one of the architect's of the fake news about Trump's collusion.
Far left definitely doesn't want that to get out. Media is going to bury this as fast as they can so they can continue to pursue their real agenda.
whatever, sheeple...
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In comment 14299372 christian said:
Quote:
I don't disagree there is a group with motivations who exploit hot button issues to further agendas.
What I take intellectual exception to is the notion:
Quote:
the politicians, media, athletes, and celebrities all seized on it because they wanted it to be true. It fits their narrative.
That's pretty scary, and unproductive hyperbole to me.
From the Washington Post Opt Ed, 02/17/2019
Quote:
If Smollett’s story is found to be untrue, it will cause irreparable damage to the communities most affected. Smollett would be the first example skeptics cite when they say we should be dubious of victims who step forward to share their experiences of racist hate crimes or sexual violence. The incident would be touted as proof that there is a leftist conspiracy to cast Trump supporters as violent, murderous racists. It would be the very embodiment of “fake news.”
And that reason, more than any other, is why I need this story to be true, despite its ugliness and despite what it would say about the danger of the world I live in. The damage done would be too deep and long-lasting. This could be one tragedy that the Lyon family — and more importantly, the ordinary people who loved the show and invested in Smollett and his character — could never overcome.
link
"Why I need this story to be true". The mask drops again, just like Covington. No matter what the reality, the MSM needs to promote it's narrative, damn the facts, ignore the search for truth, forget about journalistic ethics. Guilt by narrative.
"Democracy dies in Darkness"? Look in the mirror, WaPo...
Here's a good review of the article from Tim Poole
Far Left BEGGING For Jussie Smollett To Be A VICTIM
Smolette also has ties to Fancy Bear, Konstantin Kilimnik's hacker group that stole Hillary's e-mails. He's beleived to be the real sorce of the Wikileak's dump and is one of the architect's of the fake news about Trump's collusion.
Far left definitely doesn't want that to get out. Media is going to bury this as fast as they can so they can continue to pursue their real agenda.
Is this a serious post?
Either you are severely out of touch with how a large portion of society works today to get their news and don't understand how much information is disseminated via social media outlets in tweets and instagram stories (for example) and even still on TV news broadcasts vs actual print media stories. Print media is a dying medium.
Or you just feel like the majority of people cannot differentiate an opinion column vs "the news". Nothing "has eroded" based on the majority of comments I have read from in this thread.
I do agree some individuals go too far with the media criticism and it's not helpful, but that doesn't mean he/they are totally wrong.
Journalistic standards are practically non-existent today for many in the media. Even if you want to give the media a pass on this case (no idea why you would), just look at Convington Catholic, the level of "investigation" (or lack thereof) before stories were published is amazing. The amount of news outlets who just ran that piece and the number of journalists, who commented (not an op-ed, but a news story) is staggering without watching that whole video. And I think the lawsuit has at least a chance of progressing, which is rare. A journalist sharing or tweeting a story on twitter is not an op-ed, it's disseminating information.
The Lara Logan quotes posted above are not about op-ed pieces and as a former chief foreign correspondent for CBS I think she'd know the difference even if you don't think the rest of us mouthbreathing knuckle draggers know the difference.
Then he tries to use the most popular symbol of the MAGA stuff and white power.
Its just a very ridiculous thing. I dont think anything he can say now can justify his reasons. NONE.
his actions speak loud to the poor girl bullied for her transition. To the hispanic boy or girl ridiculed for her race. Its just horrible.
This story has brought out some insane things in people. Not just here. It's mind-numbing. If one is a Trump supporter they want the guy tar and feathered. If not? They don't want him going to jail.
Everyone's judgment as to what his fate should be is rooted in politics. If he's guilty, he should of course be punished. But what goes into that punishment is more than how you feel about Donald Trump. Is he a repeat-offender (I read he lied during a DUI once?)? Is there reason to believe he's a danger to society? Did he cooperate with authorities or is he cooperating now?
But no... it's all politics.
Quote:
are absolutely bat shit crazy...
This story has brought out some insane things in people. Not just here. It's mind-numbing. If one is a Trump supporter they want the guy tar and feathered. If not? They don't want him going to jail.
Everyone's judgment as to what his fate should be is rooted in politics. If he's guilty, he should of course be punished. But what goes into that punishment is more than how you feel about Donald Trump. Is he a repeat-offender (I read he lied during a DUI once?)? Is there reason to believe he's a danger to society? Did he cooperate with authorities or is he cooperating now?
But no... it's all politics.
duh.. its all politics once political candidates began commenting on it.
this is how division is created. But to stay on topic, the guy made a plan of action, went on GMA to double down, and yada yada. He needs jail time.
Quote:
are absolutely bat shit crazy...
This story has brought out some insane things in people. Not just here. It's mind-numbing. If one is a Trump supporter they want the guy tar and feathered. If not? They don't want him going to jail.
Everyone's judgment as to what his fate should be is rooted in politics. If he's guilty, he should of course be punished. But what goes into that punishment is more than how you feel about Donald Trump. Is he a repeat-offender (I read he lied during a DUI once?)? Is there reason to believe he's a danger to society? Did he cooperate with authorities or is he cooperating now?
But no... it's all politics.
Quote:
are absolutely bat shit crazy...
This story has brought out some insane things in people. Not just here. It's mind-numbing. If one is a Trump supporter they want the guy tar and feathered. If not? They don't want him going to jail.
Everyone's judgment as to what his fate should be is rooted in politics. If he's guilty, he should of course be punished. But what goes into that punishment is more than how you feel about Donald Trump. Is he a repeat-offender (I read he lied during a DUI once?)? Is there reason to believe he's a danger to society? Did he cooperate with authorities or is he cooperating now?
But no... it's all politics.
He needs jail time to prevent other people from doing this in the future and to teach him he cannot get away with this nonsense in a normal society.
Smollett is not alone in knowing that the media has a narrative for 2019 America. He played right into their hands and they ran with it without hesitation. Identity politics is the charter and trade of mainstream media and they took this absurd narrative hook, line and sinker until it became impossible to defend. Now, the same mouthpieces are pretending to 'search for answers' while scattering like roaches.
The lesson from all of this is that America in 2019 is not perfect, but certainly isn't being reported accurately. There's a template the media uses enemies and there need to be enemies (real or imagined). The identity politics template uses terms like; 'racist', 'homophobe', 'misogynist' etc. When you throw these labels on someone, you don't need to have a dialog or a conversation with them. It's a license to spit vitriol and make absurd unfounded assertions. This used to be the stuff or opinion journalism, now it's foisted as 'real' news. Journalists are building an insulated brick wall that's playing to ignorance and hate; it plays out every day in what used to be know as news and is eroding the last shreds of civility.
IMHO, Smollett played his identity politics card and is a victim of his ignorance and an agenda-driven media.
Smollett is not alone in knowing that the media has a narrative for 2019 America. He played right into their hands and they ran with it without hesitation. Identity politics is the charter and trade of mainstream media and they took this absurd narrative hook, line and sinker until it became impossible to defend. Now, the same mouthpieces are pretending to 'search for answers' while scattering like roaches.
The lesson from all of this is that America in 2019 is not perfect, but certainly isn't being reported accurately. There's a template the media uses enemies and there need to be enemies (real or imagined). The identity politics template uses terms like; 'racist', 'homophobe', 'misogynist' etc. When you throw these labels on someone, you don't need to have a dialog or a conversation with them. It's a license to spit vitriol and make absurd unfounded assertions. This used to be the stuff or opinion journalism, now it's foisted as 'real' news. Journalists are building an insulated brick wall that's playing to ignorance and hate; it plays out every day in what used to be know as news and is eroding the last shreds of civility.
IMHO, Smollett played his identity politics card and is a victim of his ignorance and an agenda-driven media.
this 100%
Think about that.
Wow. There's dumb and there's DUMB.
Think about that.
Yep...not a tweet to be seen on this but there sure is one on the subject of this thread.
Quote:
but Christopher Paul Hasson isn't.
Think about that.
Yep...not a tweet to be seen on this but there sure is one on the subject of this thread.
It's trending on my twitter feed and in the headline banner of just about every news site.
not sure what you mean, "not a tweet to be seen" unless you only follow movie stars and athletes on twitter.
(I'm sure they'll be coming momentarily)
*rolls eyes*
(I'm sure they'll be coming momentarily)
*rolls eyes*
??????
(I'm sure they'll be coming momentarily)
*rolls eyes*
Why would there be any tweets/comments supporting the white nationalist?
I fully expect to see tweets from most candidates condoning his intended actions though.
Lock him up and throw away the key, at least after reading the details of the indictment against him (the white supremacist coast guard officer)
Quote:
presidential tweets there are for the white nationalist U.S. coast guard guy vs. Smollett.
(I'm sure they'll be coming momentarily)
*rolls eyes*
Why would there be any tweets/comments supporting the white nationalist?
I fully expect to see tweets from most candidates condoning his intended actions though.
Did I say condoning? How about condemning it/him.
(I'm sure they'll be coming momentarily)
*rolls eyes*
Here is where confirmation bias and identity politics play a huge part in the division of this country.
Why can't both be wrong? This is not a binary choice where you can only pick one.
How about the fact MOST of the country supports neither of these two assholes and feels both should be beholden to what our legal system dictates for their transgressions. These two shouldn't have a "side".
One of them obviously could have been far more wrong and grievously so, but fortunately didn't carry out plans he fantasized about.
The other preyed on the emotions of the whole country and arguably did more tangible damage than the other.
If you're looking for politicians to tweet for your validation you are misguided.
think for yourself.
Quote:
presidential tweets there are for the white nationalist U.S. coast guard guy vs. Smollett.
(I'm sure they'll be coming momentarily)
*rolls eyes*
Here is where confirmation bias and identity politics play a huge part in the division of this country.
Why can't both be wrong? This is not a binary choice where you can only pick one.
How about the fact MOST of the country supports neither of these two assholes and feels both should be beholden to what our legal system dictates for their transgressions. These two shouldn't have a "side".
One of them obviously could have been far more wrong and grievously so, but fortunately didn't carry out plans he fantasized about.
The other preyed on the emotions of the whole country and arguably did more tangible damage than the other.
If you're looking for politicians to tweet for your validation you are misguided.
think for yourself.
Voice or reason says what? Good post.
That is my point. Can't believe that needed clarifying.
That is my point. Can't believe that needed clarifying.
I am not going to get in a position where I need to defend the President, but he probably tweeted condemning Smollett because like many others he previously commented on how terrible the "attack" was on Smollett.
From politico:
“It doesn’t get worse, as far as I’m concerned,” Trump said of the attack during an Oval Office exchange with the White House press pool on Thursday."...
So whether he comments on Hasson or not is irrelevant to Smollett. There are a lot of horrible acts committed or planned to be committed by horrible people I don't need commentary on them all.
Quote:
presidential tweets there are for the white nationalist U.S. coast guard guy vs. Smollett.
(I'm sure they'll be coming momentarily)
*rolls eyes*
Here is where confirmation bias and identity politics play a huge part in the division of this country.
Why can't both be wrong? This is not a binary choice where you can only pick one.
How about the fact MOST of the country supports neither of these two assholes and feels both should be beholden to what our legal system dictates for their transgressions. These two shouldn't have a "side".
One of them obviously could have been far more wrong and grievously so, but fortunately didn't carry out plans he fantasized about.
The other preyed on the emotions of the whole country and arguably did more tangible damage than the other.
If you're looking for politicians to tweet for your validation you are misguided.
think for yourself.
"The other preyed on the emotions of the whole country and arguably did more tangible damage than the other."
Isn't this what POTUS does every single day?
I agree with your "think for yourself" argument but unfortunately this is not the case because most view political parties more fanatically than their sports teams and that is exactly what got us into this current mess.
As for my earlier post, I was not speaking generally and referring to our current accelerant in chief but you probably already figured that out.
That is my point. Can't believe that needed clarifying.
He also said, "hat I can tell you is horrible, I’ve seen it. Last night. It’s horrible. Doesn’t get worse.” when word first broke that he'd been attacked. Why did you leave that out of your post?
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
Isn't this what POTUS does every single day?
As for my earlier post, I was not speaking generally and referring to our current accelerant in chief but you probably already figured that out.
Wake up sheeple. So does Adam "the liar" Schiff(only person to "see" collusion for two years and has yet to show proof), the Whiner Senate Minority Leader and babbling Speaker - all of whom use inflammatory language everyday. Even freakin Bernie Sanders has join the mudslinging...
They all do it, they all suck and if you don't see it you are blind.
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Trump condemned Smollett. Where's the tweet condemning Hasson??
That is my point. Can't believe that needed clarifying.
He also said, "hat I can tell you is horrible, I’ve seen it. Last night. It’s horrible. Doesn’t get worse.” when word first broke that he'd been attacked. Why did you leave that out of your post?
Have not seen that tweet about specifically condemning Hasson yet. Let me know.
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Isn't this what POTUS does every single day?
As for my earlier post, I was not speaking generally and referring to our current accelerant in chief but you probably already figured that out.
Wake up sheeple. So does Adam "the liar" Schiff(only person to "see" collusion for two years and has yet to show proof), the Whiner Senate Minority Leader and babbling Speaker - all of whom use inflammatory language everyday. Even freakin Bernie Sanders has join the mudslinging...
They all do it, they all suck and if you don't see it you are blind.
haha....sorry I brought it up
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on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
this thread is clearly off track, and likely headed for deletion, but.....
Quote:
on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
You don't get to make the rules about how it works. Do you think you're Trump?
They are all bad. Difference is you have been sucked in. 45 is terrible, no doubt. Take his doggone phone away, close the account, don't want to hear from him anymore. The others are just as bad, but because your bias is that way you overlook it. Have you heard of the big lie? Say something long enough and loud enough and it becomes the truth...Adam Schiff, for almost two years that ass has said he has seen evidence, funny he is the only one or haven't you noticed?
We have already exceeded what is allowable
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on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
Oh, and btw, from USA Today:
After two days of public pressure to renounce white supremacists at the root of street violence in Charlottesville, Va., President Trump declared Monday that "racism is evil" and announced that the Justice Department will open a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that left one woman dead.
"To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence: You will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered," Trump said after returning to the White House to meet with top federal law enforcement officials.
Denouncing racism, Trump said in a prepared speech that "those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans."
Link - ( New Window )
eh. It's in the archive.
https://archive.fo/cqHOO
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In comment 14302344 Bill in UT said:
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on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
Oh, and btw, from USA Today:
After two days of public pressure to renounce white supremacists at the root of street violence in Charlottesville, Va., President Trump declared Monday that "racism is evil" and announced that the Justice Department will open a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that left one woman dead.
"To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence: You will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered," Trump said after returning to the White House to meet with top federal law enforcement officials.
Denouncing racism, Trump said in a prepared speech that "those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans." Link - ( New Window )
lol exactly, after being pressured, he read from a prepared speech. "very fine people on both sides" was his first reaction.
And it's obvious to all that what Smollett did was wrong to make a false report of a hate crime, but if you're not just as concerned about a radicalized domestic terrorist who amasses an arsenal & plans to kill people in government & the media, then I don't know what to tell you.
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In comment 14302373 Ryan in Albany said:
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In comment 14302344 Bill in UT said:
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on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
Oh, and btw, from USA Today:
After two days of public pressure to renounce white supremacists at the root of street violence in Charlottesville, Va., President Trump declared Monday that "racism is evil" and announced that the Justice Department will open a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that left one woman dead.
"To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence: You will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered," Trump said after returning to the White House to meet with top federal law enforcement officials.
Denouncing racism, Trump said in a prepared speech that "those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans." Link - ( New Window )
lol exactly, after being pressured, he read from a prepared speech. "very fine people on both sides" was his first reaction.
Doesn't matter when or why he said it. Your statement isn't that he never condemned them is false. Period
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In comment 14302373 Ryan in Albany said:
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In comment 14302344 Bill in UT said:
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on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
Oh, and btw, from USA Today:
After two days of public pressure to renounce white supremacists at the root of street violence in Charlottesville, Va., President Trump declared Monday that "racism is evil" and announced that the Justice Department will open a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that left one woman dead.
"To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence: You will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered," Trump said after returning to the White House to meet with top federal law enforcement officials.
Denouncing racism, Trump said in a prepared speech that "those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans." Link - ( New Window )
lol exactly, after being pressured, he read from a prepared speech. "very fine people on both sides" was his first reaction.
Again, you seem to be looking for the President to comment on something for your own validation.
why?
he should not be your moral compass, I don't care who the president is.
and you should not need any validation or expectation from him to comment to make you feel like things are "even".
His first comment on Smollett was one of condemnation.
which is probably why he felt compelled to comment on the hoax, but who knows (or cares).
There are certain atrocities that are horrific enough (like Hasson) that reasonable people don't need anyone to comment.
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In comment 14302373 Ryan in Albany said:
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In comment 14302344 Bill in UT said:
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on behalf of all conservatives, including the President, I hereby condemn the Hasson's stated intentions as well as his thought processes. I am certain that if any of his plans had been carried out he would be leading the news over Smollett
Sorry, doesn't work that way.
He never condemned the white supremacists who killed Heather Heyer in Charlottesville either.
Oh, and btw, from USA Today:
After two days of public pressure to renounce white supremacists at the root of street violence in Charlottesville, Va., President Trump declared Monday that "racism is evil" and announced that the Justice Department will open a civil rights investigation into the deadly car attack that left one woman dead.
"To anyone who acted criminally in this weekend's racist violence: You will be held fully accountable. Justice will be delivered," Trump said after returning to the White House to meet with top federal law enforcement officials.
Denouncing racism, Trump said in a prepared speech that "those who cause violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans." Link - ( New Window )
lol exactly, after being pressured, he read from a prepared speech. "very fine people on both sides" was his first reaction.
you think he was referring to antifa and the white nationalists as the both sides? Can you think of any other both sides?
Trump as far as publicly rushing to judgement.
There are certain atrocities that are horrific enough (like Hasson) that reasonable people don't need anyone to comment.
Easy on the hyperbole, pj :) Atrocities are defined as acts, not thoughts. Collecting weapons is not an atrocity, using them certainly is.
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There are certain atrocities that are horrific enough (like Hasson) that reasonable people don't need anyone to comment.
Easy on the hyperbole, pj :) Atrocities are defined as acts, not thoughts. Collecting weapons is not an atrocity, using them certainly is.
I was speaking generally, not specifically, but mentioned Hasson to show why the hit list put together by Hasson needs no commentary.
The fake bombs sent to liberal media was met with strong condemnation (though perhaps not ironically, the media only focused on the "but..." after the condemnation).
it goes back to where I started on this thread, people need to stop getting their information from echo chambers.
Confirmation bias is real, and it's human nature, but it doesn't help heal division.
Some people don't want to heal division they want to seize on it and many people are useful idiots in that endeavor.
Maybe non-functioning would be a better term than fake
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 14302433 pjcas18 said:
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There are certain atrocities that are horrific enough (like Hasson) that reasonable people don't need anyone to comment.
Easy on the hyperbole, pj :) Atrocities are defined as acts, not thoughts. Collecting weapons is not an atrocity, using them certainly is.
I was speaking generally, not specifically, but mentioned Hasson to show why the hit list put together by Hasson needs no commentary.
The fake bombs sent to liberal media was met with strong condemnation (though perhaps not ironically, the media only focused on the "but..." after the condemnation).
it goes back to where I started on this thread, people need to stop getting their information from echo chambers.
Confirmation bias is real, and it's human nature, but it doesn't help heal division.
Some people don't want to heal division they want to seize on it and many people are useful idiots in that endeavor.
amen
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?
Maybe non-functioning would be a better term than fake Link - ( New Window )
Yes, my apologies, the bombs were real explosive materials, but from what I read according to explosive experts, not capable of detonating because they were poorly made.
Feel the same about you.
(With as much or little reason to)
Think about that.
It's interesting... there's something about the "planned" that renders it incomparable to the "accomplished." Hasson actually committed no action, so ultimately he is little more than a hypothetical.
I'm not saying he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically. I'm saying he plays to his base because a) his base is easy and b) his base gives him every republican in Washington. His base has shown that they will turn on any republican who doesn't give him what he wants. It's why the only republicans who don't toe the line are the ones who decided to not run for office again. He wields that power in DC like a hammer. That's why in the last shutdown, he ran the show.... into the ground. It was a doomed strategy from the start but no one could get through to him such that he would realize it.
But, from a larger standpoint, I don't think I was commenting on strategy at all. I don't disagree that he's stuck to his "principles" as much as Carter. The difference is (in my opinion) that Carter actually believed in his principles. He was arguably the worst president of my lifetime (and I am a liberal's liberal) but that failure was guided by principles that he held dearly. Those principles have been much more effective in private service than they were in public service. You can see the difference in their life's works. Trump jumped into a weak Republican party and curb stomped the nerds running for president. 15 years before that he was a democrat. Every step he's made since then has been guided by a desire for power and influence - not any deeply held beliefs. It worked. Hats off to him, but he's not some flawed figure pursuing his ideals - George W is better described that way. He's a personality who craves adulation and power and refuses to take responsibility for anything negative. Full stop.
Link below, worth a quick listen.
Link - ( New Window )
What's unique and alarming is the erosion of truth as an ante to generally participate in the market place of ideas. That normally portends to bad things for a society.
Debating, bickering, and even sometimes crossing the line aren't calamities when batting around hard topics.
But the full scale adoption of lies and setups as part of the social dialogue is historically very, very dangerous.
I'm more troubled a public figure found it plausible to cook up a stunt like that, than any group or individual on the sideline's reaction.
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than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
I'm not saying he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically. I'm saying he plays to his base because a) his base is easy and b) his base gives him every republican in Washington. His base has shown that they will turn on any republican who doesn't give him what he wants. It's why the only republicans who don't toe the line are the ones who decided to not run for office again. He wields that power in DC like a hammer. That's why in the last shutdown, he ran the show.... into the ground. It was a doomed strategy from the start but no one could get through to him such that he would realize it.
But, from a larger standpoint, I don't think I was commenting on strategy at all. I don't disagree that he's stuck to his "principles" as much as Carter. The difference is (in my opinion) that Carter actually believed in his principles. He was arguably the worst president of my lifetime (and I am a liberal's liberal) but that failure was guided by principles that he held dearly. Those principles have been much more effective in private service than they were in public service. You can see the difference in their life's works. Trump jumped into a weak Republican party and curb stomped the nerds running for president. 15 years before that he was a democrat. Every step he's made since then has been guided by a desire for power and influence - not any deeply held beliefs. It worked. Hats off to him, but he's not some flawed figure pursuing his ideals - George W is better described that way. He's a personality who craves adulation and power and refuses to take responsibility for anything negative. Full stop.
To say that Trump playing to his base gives him every Republican in Washington is ludicrous. Half of the Republican establishment are never-Trumpers. Paul Ryan was totally anti-Trump. McConnell gives him only what he has to. Weekly Standard,(RIP), National Review are anti-Trump. His base is made up of Tea Partiers, populist Democrats, and some conservative Republicans. I was not at all a Trump fan during the primaries. I never believed he was a conservative. But everything he has done in office points to a person with real conservative principles. Does he make an ass of himself most times that he speaks off the cuff? Yes he does. But no one else who ran as a Republican in 2016 would have accomplished anywhere close to as much as far as a conservative agenda as Trump has. As far as him being a hammer, he hasn't a clue on how to keep the membership in line compared to Harry Reid and Nacny Pelosi.
That is simplistic post...I don't like the guy, but he has been pretty spot on in most items if you step back and actually see through his bluster. Yes the shutdown was a loser, but there way no way Chuck and Nancy could give in because it would be another feather in his cap and they could not afford for him to win again. But the trade deals went against every economist and he was correct. He will likely get a good result from China because they need us infinitely more than we need them. He knows it. They know it. Everyone previous was afraid to stomp on them and China stole from our companies, cheated on trade and still does so while denying it.(I liked when Obama tried to open a dialogue with Iran and Cuba and I like that Trump is trying to negotiate with North Korea. Whether it works out is slim, but beats the alternative.)
I absolutely despise his name calling and petty cheap shots(although the stuff with Warren was prophetic). I do think this investigation is an absolute scam and McCabe pretty much proves it is with his comments in the CBS interview. Now what Trump said to McCabe's wife is disgusting and he deserved a bloody nose for it. But I do think he is right about the top level of the FBI being corrupt and think they should be charged with conspiracy and lying - same exact things that Flynn, George P, Stone et al, have been charged with.
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In comment 14302735 Bill in UT said:
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than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
I'm not saying he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically. I'm saying he plays to his base because a) his base is easy and b) his base gives him every republican in Washington. His base has shown that they will turn on any republican who doesn't give him what he wants. It's why the only republicans who don't toe the line are the ones who decided to not run for office again. He wields that power in DC like a hammer. That's why in the last shutdown, he ran the show.... into the ground. It was a doomed strategy from the start but no one could get through to him such that he would realize it.
But, from a larger standpoint, I don't think I was commenting on strategy at all. I don't disagree that he's stuck to his "principles" as much as Carter. The difference is (in my opinion) that Carter actually believed in his principles. He was arguably the worst president of my lifetime (and I am a liberal's liberal) but that failure was guided by principles that he held dearly. Those principles have been much more effective in private service than they were in public service. You can see the difference in their life's works. Trump jumped into a weak Republican party and curb stomped the nerds running for president. 15 years before that he was a democrat. Every step he's made since then has been guided by a desire for power and influence - not any deeply held beliefs. It worked. Hats off to him, but he's not some flawed figure pursuing his ideals - George W is better described that way. He's a personality who craves adulation and power and refuses to take responsibility for anything negative. Full stop.
To say that Trump playing to his base gives him every Republican in Washington is ludicrous. Half of the Republican establishment are never-Trumpers. Paul Ryan was totally anti-Trump. McConnell gives him only what he has to. Weekly Standard,(RIP), National Review are anti-Trump. His base is made up of Tea Partiers, populist Democrats, and some conservative Republicans. I was not at all a Trump fan during the primaries. I never believed he was a conservative. But everything he has done in office points to a person with real conservative principles. Does he make an ass of himself most times that he speaks off the cuff? Yes he does. But no one else who ran as a Republican in 2016 would have accomplished anywhere close to as much as far as a conservative agenda as Trump has. As far as him being a hammer, he hasn't a clue on how to keep the membership in line compared to Harry Reid and Nacny Pelosi.
Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You can't just pretend that all the other years that Trump was Trump didn't exist. He all of a sudden stopped being a pro-choice democrat. How does that lead to him having deeply held political beliefs? Letting Stephen Miller write policy while he watches Fox News doesn't mean he's a true conservative.
Same can be said about all the major orgs, MSNBC and CNN, so stop the crap. They all lie and MSNBC and CNN have an agenda (as does FOX). In case you haven't noticed, all news orgs are just shills and mouth pieces for their party of choice which is why the news orgs have a lower rating than congress.
Not the intended point of the investigation was it? Glad they got Manafort and Cohen for tax evasion, but Tax evasion and lying to investigators is not Russia Collusion - which was Mueller's mandate. Bet they can do the same research on some of congress and get similar results. Yeah, putting Papadopoulos in jail for 14 days is a coup..there are members of the FBI and Clinton's crew that did the exact same thing. McCabe has been referred for criminal investigation by the IG for lying to congress. Hillary lied to the FBI about what was on her server and actually destroyed subpoenaed evidence, but no charges?
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multiple indictments/convictions a 'sham'?
Not the intended point of the investigation was it? Glad they got Manafort and Cohen for tax evasion, but Tax evasion and lying to investigators is not Russia Collusion - which was Mueller's mandate. Bet they can do the same research on some of congress and get similar results. Yeah, putting Papadopoulos in jail for 14 days is a coup..there are members of the FBI and Clinton's crew that did the exact same thing. McCabe has been referred for criminal investigation by the IG for lying to congress. Hillary lied to the FBI about what was on her server and actually destroyed subpoenaed evidence, but no charges?
Wrong. That wasn't his mandate. Rosenstein wrote the order which said that any links and/or coordination between the Russian's and anyone else associated with the campaign DJT and ALSO “anything else that comes up directly from the investigation.
And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
And which posters who strictly get their news from HuffPo
More than on football threads at least. Even the snark/disagreements in here weren't as vicious as football threads and certainly pale in comparison to what you see on social media.
I only mention this because I think we've lost civil discourse in society today, no one has an open mind and many people are on the extremes.
People exhibit fascist behavior (or at worst intolerance) and call out their opposites for being fascists, it makes my head spin, trying to see who is claiming the moral high ground, when everyone contradicts themselves and then twists themselves into s pretzel to justify their position.
I know it's small and probably can get worse before getting deleted, but well done.
People exhibit fascist behavior (or at worst intolerance) and call out their opposites for being fascists, it makes my head spin,
yeah... it really is funny. Just like on college campuses when the kids are screaming about fascism while they are trying to shut down free speech and differing opinions.
Wrong. That wasn't his mandate. Rosenstein wrote the order which said that any links and/or coordination between the Russian's and anyone else associated with the campaign DJT and ALSO “anything else that comes up directly from the investigation.
And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
Please stop acting like where you get news is superior to anyone else's. They are all biased and to keep bringing it up is childish. In fact, I do not get my news from a talk show. The rest of your post is reasonable to discuss.
We will disagree on the true objective of the Mueller's probe, but I agree you are right on the range. The real object was Collusion and Obstruction - but you cannot overlook illegal activity, so anything ancillary flies, too. And I do not have a problem with putting Gates, Manafort or Cohen away - scum. Flynn was a dumbass as everything he did was legal, but he lied to FBI even though the agents wrote he did not. Manafort and Gates were tax evasion and lying to investigators - not Russia(Ukraine??). George P and Flynn were Russia but not what they were looking for. Papadopoulos lied about a date of a meeting (legal meeting)- he got 14 days. Wow major indictment there. Flynn lied about a legal meeting with Kislyak - and even Comey admitted that they scammed him by saying he did not need a lawyer and laughed about it. Quite sad. They tried to go after Sessions for talking with Kislyak at an event when as Senator on the Foreign Affairs Committee(IIRC or whatever committee he was on) it was well within his scope to talk to an ambassador.
If you don't think nitpicking dates and memories is just a scam to squeeze people, you are not telling the truth. I'd bet my bottom dollar you could get 535 members of congress with similar questions - did you ever talk to so and so, or what dates did you speak with so and so. Can you remember every post, text, or email you have written in the past two years on Giants Football? (just an example).
Have to go. Aside from the news org snipe, it was pleasant talking with you.
CNN and MSNBC are just as biased as Fox, but at least Fox hosts don't pretend to not be partisan. Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo are closer to Democratic activists then the objective journalists that CNN claims they are.
And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
Both Tiki and I find it comical that there are people who still believe that the Russians were responsible for Trump getting elected. As if they forced individuals to pull a lever.
Meanwhile, ignored is the fact that the DNC themselves interfered with the election by sabotaging the entire primary election to hand it to Hillary. Anyone else would have beaten Trump. Instead, they block all others from stepping forward and torpedo Bernie.
If you do not think there were others who wanted to run a few years ago, all you need to do is see how many there are already lined up this time.
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And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
Both Tiki and I find it comical that there are people who still believe that the Russians were responsible for Trump getting elected. As if they forced individuals to pull a lever.
Meanwhile, ignored is the fact that the DNC themselves interfered with the election by sabotaging the entire primary election to hand it to Hillary. Anyone else would have beaten Trump. Instead, they block all others from stepping forward and torpedo Bernie.
If you do not think there were others who wanted to run a few years ago, all you need to do is see how many there are already lined up this time.
lol. The DNC "interfered" with the election? Weird defense of the Trump team's ties to Russia and their interference. The democrats are actually allowed to make the rules for their own primaries. As you note, it didn't work out well in the election but it was hardly "interference". Bernie might have beaten Trump but he didn't beat HRC - it's that simple.
Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
- he indicted a literal agent of Russia who was living in DC and interacting in US politics
- Re: manafort a judge ruled last week that he lied to prosecutors about sharing sensitive campaign data with an accused russian agent he worked with for years in ukraine
- his court filings in the Stone indictment claim to have his communications with Wikileaks, which the current admin has even called out as a russian state actor
- he (Mueller) passed off other elements of the investigation (like Cohen) to other jurisdictions since they were unrelated to Russia
That's all information that has passed through the legal system, been approved by the current administrations DOJ, and held up in front of grand juries, federal judges, and on appeals. Have they also brought other provable tax/fraud/foreign lobbying charges as leverage over some of the above? Yes. But he has expressly linked most of his findings and indictments so far to Russian activity.
Again, forgetting the political theater or insinuations of whatever it means, if there can't be faith in facts that have been proven through the legal system to this point it would seem to be a very bad sign for the country that there will ever be a shared set of facts on anything.
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Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
I don't disagree with any of this. I'll just say that the problem that the Republican Party has is that Trump is the biggest star the party has ever had and his base is fiercely active and loyal. So, if you go against Trump he can get you primaried out of town. That's why it's rare that any republican disagrees with him publicly and one in a leadership position disagreeing with him is unheard of. So sure, a few moderates have disagreed and even voted against him. But the leadership has given him anything he wants.
It's amazing that Republicans are going along with this emergency declaration the way they are. You know most of them disagree with it (not the wall, the declaration) completely but the power of the President brings them in line.
The logical fallacy is that public discourse on politics and by extension government should be in the business of "healing" or "reconciliation." That's funny as shit.
Government exists to solve practical issues for the public, and to further their liberty and happiness.
It has and never will be an exercise in healing, or defending the social fabric. That must come from other mechanisms, politics and government have never achieved that.
The primary issue in American politics and government is that fact-based, truthful positioning is becoming less required.
Public figures, private discussion, and media all seem to be less beholden to that foundation.
That's the scary as shit part of all of it.
- he indicted a literal agent of Russia who was living in DC and interacting in US politics
- Re: manafort a judge ruled last week that he lied to prosecutors about sharing sensitive campaign data with an accused russian agent he worked with for years in ukraine
- his court filings in the Stone indictment claim to have his communications with Wikileaks, which the current admin has even called out as a russian state actor
- he (Mueller) passed off other elements of the investigation (like Cohen) to other jurisdictions since they were unrelated to Russia
That's all information that has passed through the legal system, been approved by the current administrations DOJ, and held up in front of grand juries, federal judges, and on appeals. Have they also brought other provable tax/fraud/foreign lobbying charges as leverage over some of the above? Yes. But he has expressly linked most of his findings and indictments so far to Russian activity.
Again, forgetting the political theater or insinuations of whatever it means, if there can't be faith in facts that have been proven through the legal system to this point it would seem to be a very bad sign for the country that there will ever be a shared set of facts on anything.
Well said....and points to the real danger in all of this, a complete full frontal assault on truth and facts, it's insidious and unfortunately effective.
Public figures, private discussion, and media all seem to be less beholden to that foundation.
That's the scary as shit part of all of it.
Agree entirely. There is a fog of war from the over-saturation of every form of media around us and far too many are embracing that fog to drift further into deception - across all sides.
Ironically enough 1 of the people who seems to be finding consequences for his actions is the empire star. It's certainly not perfect but our justice system seems to be the last vestige of accountability.
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In comment 14302938 Heisenberg said:
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Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
I don't disagree with any of this. I'll just say that the problem that the Republican Party has is that Trump is the biggest star the party has ever had and his base is fiercely active and loyal. So, if you go against Trump he can get you primaried out of town. That's why it's rare that any republican disagrees with him publicly and one in a leadership position disagreeing with him is unheard of. So sure, a few moderates have disagreed and even voted against him. But the leadership has given him anything he wants.
It's amazing that Republicans are going along with this emergency declaration the way they are. You know most of them disagree with it (not the wall, the declaration) completely but the power of the President brings them in line.
Offhand, I can't think of any GOP Senator whogot primaried, certainly not who got primaried and lost. Flake and Corker both dropped out. Flake's seat was won by McSally, who is more liberal than he was. And the Rep.Senatorial CC, led by McConnell, poured money in to support every incumbent who might have an intra-party problem, starting with the special election in Alabama.
Please name a few items that the leadership has passed legislation on to placate Trump. He's constantly fighting with them over big spending bills that he always ends up signing. They have all publicly supported Mueller and Rosenstein. Many opposed his NAFTA renegotiation and his tarriffs. They oppose pulling out of Syria and Afghanistan, they oppose cutting back on NATO. Almost everything he's accomplished has been by executive order. The Senate has confirmed a bunch of his judges, but their are still a ton of judges and other federal appointments being held up in the Republican controlled pipeline, many for well over a year.
Ironically enough 1 of the people who seems to be finding consequences for his actions is the empire star. It's certainly not perfect but our justice system seems to be the last vestige of accountability.
If he ends up spending a minute in jail, I will gladly eat a very large crow
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In comment 14303181 Bill in UT said:
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In comment 14302938 Heisenberg said:
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Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
I don't disagree with any of this. I'll just say that the problem that the Republican Party has is that Trump is the biggest star the party has ever had and his base is fiercely active and loyal. So, if you go against Trump he can get you primaried out of town. That's why it's rare that any republican disagrees with him publicly and one in a leadership position disagreeing with him is unheard of. So sure, a few moderates have disagreed and even voted against him. But the leadership has given him anything he wants.
It's amazing that Republicans are going along with this emergency declaration the way they are. You know most of them disagree with it (not the wall, the declaration) completely but the power of the President brings them in line.
Offhand, I can't think of any GOP Senator whogot primaried, certainly not who got primaried and lost. Flake and Corker both dropped out. Flake's seat was won by McSally, who is more liberal than he was. And the Rep.Senatorial CC, led by McConnell, poured money in to support every incumbent who might have an intra-party problem, starting with the special election in Alabama.
Please name a few items that the leadership has passed legislation on to placate Trump. He's constantly fighting with them over big spending bills that he always ends up signing. They have all publicly supported Mueller and Rosenstein. Many opposed his NAFTA renegotiation and his tarriffs. They oppose pulling out of Syria and Afghanistan, they oppose cutting back on NATO. Almost everything he's accomplished has been by executive order. The Senate has confirmed a bunch of his judges, but their are still a ton of judges and other federal appointments being held up in the Republican controlled pipeline, many for well over a year.
McSally actually lost to the election to Democrat Kyrsten Sinema. McSally was named to replace Jon Kyl after he stepped down 12/31, Kyl replaced McCain.
Y
Offhand, I can't think of any GOP Senator whogot primaried, certainly not who got primaried and lost. Flake and Corker both dropped out. Flake's seat was won by McSally, who is more liberal than he was.
McSally actually lost to the election to Democrat Kyrsten Sinema. McSally was named to replace Jon Kyl after he stepped down 12/31, Kyl replaced McCain.
Yes, poor wording on my part. I meant to say that McSally won the primary for Flake's seat. She was supported by both Trump and McConnell against the 2 conservative candidates, Sheriff Joe and Kelli Ward. Being in AZ, I'm only too aware that she lost to Synema. She's going to lose the McCain seat also when she has to run in 2 years unless she gets knocked out in a primary. She's got a moderate record and is a lousy campaigner. I don't see conservatives coming out for her in the general
That’s BS. Plain and simple. Cuomo? Yes he’s “just as biased” as Hannity and Tucker and the rest. Wrong. Not close. Even Lemon. Not close to that crew.
Anyway...unbelievable this guy is sticking to his story. It was never going to end well but he’s going to make it worse.
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“CNN and MSNBC are just as biased as Fox, “
That’s BS. Plain and simple. Cuomo? Yes he’s “just as biased” as Hannity and Tucker and the rest. Wrong. Not close. Even Lemon. Not close to that crew.
Anyway...unbelievable this guy is sticking to his story. It was never going to end well but he’s going to make it worse.
I would agree with you on guys like Cooper, King, Jones, and even Tapper.
But Don Lemon is the worst. He shouldnt even be allowed on TV.
One of those groups are hired to provide opinions, one is hired to report the news. Anyone defending Don Lemon's objectivity as a news reporter is part of the problem, not the solution.
Again, people have opinions and their confirmation bias leads them to be more likely to believe tweets, stories, rumors, "news" that matches their opinions. It's hard to break out of that. It's human nature. For all people, not just liberals or not just conservatives.
But people who report news are supposed to be objective and report facts, but what Lara Logan said is probably more true than not, and sure, it's probably some confirmation bias from me being willing to believe Lara, but facts are facts and 85% of journalists are registered democrats. I think that hurts them with their objectivity and while the word of Lara Logan isn't gospel, but I believe her to be more in tune with reality on this than most of us.
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“CNN and MSNBC are just as biased as Fox, “
That’s BS. Plain and simple. Cuomo? Yes he’s “just as biased” as Hannity and Tucker and the rest. Wrong. Not close. Even Lemon. Not close to that crew.
Anyway...unbelievable this guy is sticking to his story. It was never going to end well but he’s going to make it worse.
This is why the left and right can hardly have a civil conversation anymore. We see things through such totally different lenses. I have no idea how it ever gets better. But Trump didn't start this. Divisions over political correctness, identity politics, climate change, etc. go back way before he came on the scene. He hasn't made anything better, but other than capitulating I don't know how anyone could. Obama certainly didn't help with healing on any of this stuff, and if people think he tried to, well, there's that schism again :).
One of those groups are hired to provide opinions, one is hired to report the news. Anyone defending Don Lemon's objectivity as a news reporter is part of the problem, not the solution.
Again, people have opinions and their confirmation bias leads them to be more likely to believe tweets, stories, rumors, "news" that matches their opinions. It's hard to break out of that. It's human nature. For all people, not just liberals or not just conservatives.
But people who report news are supposed to be objective and report facts, but what Lara Logan said is probably more true than not, and sure, it's probably some confirmation bias from me being willing to believe Lara, but facts are facts and 85% of journalists are registered democrats. I think that hurts them with their objectivity and while the word of Lara Logan isn't gospel, but I believe her to be more in tune with reality on this than most of us.
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“Although the media has always been left-leaning, we’ve abandoned our pretense or at least the effort to be objective today. We’ve become political activists, and some could argue propagandists, and there’s some merit to that,” Logan added. “Standards are out the window, I mean you read one story after another or hear it and it’s all based on one anonymous administration official, former administration official. That’s not journalism, that’s horseshit.”
Thanks PJ, that's generally what I was trying to get across with my post
Now I know.
Second off, it's laughable that anyone can claim the Mueller investigation is a "joke", or that Trump's tax cuts and trade deals are somehow big winners.
It's even more laughable that people think that man has the mental capacity to actually think any of this through.
Seriously sad how brainwashed some people are here by Fox News. This disgusting, infantile man is assaulting our institutions and constitutions and somehow people defend it. Pathetic.
Can agree with your first line. Trump sure has been truer to his core beliefs, which are:
1) Running the country like a crime boss
2) Enriching himself
3) Feeding his ego
4) Spewing hate and division
5) Having a complex about anything related to Obama
6) Separating the US from our allies abroad
That's it. Those are his core beliefs.
What a national embarrassment.
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than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
Can agree with your first line. Trump sure has been truer to his core beliefs, which are:
1) Running the country like a crime boss
2) Enriching himself
3) Feeding his ego
4) Spewing hate and division
5) Having a complex about anything related to Obama
6) Separating the US from our allies abroad
That's it. Those are his core beliefs.
What a national embarrassment.
Good grief. Give it a rest already. But remember Fox news brainwashes people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bill...I’m Republican. Not about lenses here. The idea that CNN is on par with Fox and friends, Hannity, and the rest of those clowns is a joke. It’s not close.
Dep....Lemon? Not for me. But even that guy isn’t close to the jokers on Fox.
Dep....Lemon? Not for me. But even that guy isn’t close to the jokers on Fox.
^^ not sure what is funnier... that comment or the idea that Rutgers belongs in div 1 football.
My vote for our current President and my current unwavering support for him has not been swayed by some unseen force.
Stop assuming all Right rely on Fox News.
I don't assume all Left rely on CNN.
Because I assume a few of them at least are just like me and only watch the local news or whatever the antennae and weather allow me to and make grown up decisions by myself.
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than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
Can agree with your first line. Trump sure has been truer to his core beliefs, which are:
1) Running the country like a crime boss
2) Enriching himself
3) Feeding his ego
4) Spewing hate and division
5) Having a complex about anything related to Obama
6) Separating the US from our allies abroad
That's it. Those are his core beliefs.
What a national embarrassment.
7) Always siding with Putin over U.S. Intel
The format of Lemon's, Cuomo's, and Stetler's shows are not the straight news format of Smith's or Baier's.
Fox News has maintained the News Report and Special Report as straight news programs. Those three at CNN host a blended news and talk format, which by design has much more commentary.
I think their viewing audience knows what they are getting into.
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In comment 14302735 Bill in UT said:
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than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
Can agree with your first line. Trump sure has been truer to his core beliefs, which are:
1) Running the country like a crime boss
2) Enriching himself
3) Feeding his ego
4) Spewing hate and division
5) Having a complex about anything related to Obama
6) Separating the US from our allies abroad
That's it. Those are his core beliefs.
What a national embarrassment.
Good grief. Give it a rest already. But remember Fox news brainwashes people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh fuck off. I'm not normalizing this dipshit, I never have, and never will.
If you think this is normal, you're a fucking moron, full stop.
You deserve to wear your MAGA hat like a fucking scarlet letter for the rest of eternity. Despicable.
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In comment 14302735 Bill in UT said:
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than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
Can agree with your first line. Trump sure has been truer to his core beliefs, which are:
1) Running the country like a crime boss
2) Enriching himself
3) Feeding his ego
4) Spewing hate and division
5) Having a complex about anything related to Obama
6) Separating the US from our allies abroad
That's it. Those are his core beliefs.
What a national embarrassment.
Good grief. Give it a rest already. But remember Fox news brainwashes people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, prove me wrong. Let's pull out some quotes from the Narcsissist Dipshit in Chief literally said today "I have very nice language". Yeah, that's the type of commentary and oration I expect from the President of the fucking United States.
You're a fucking idiot if you think this guy is qualified to lead in anyway.
Trump supporters are either stupid, racist, greedy, willfully ignorant, or some combination of those.
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In comment 14303682 Sonic Youth said:
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In comment 14302735 Bill in UT said:
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than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
Can agree with your first line. Trump sure has been truer to his core beliefs, which are:
1) Running the country like a crime boss
2) Enriching himself
3) Feeding his ego
4) Spewing hate and division
5) Having a complex about anything related to Obama
6) Separating the US from our allies abroad
That's it. Those are his core beliefs.
What a national embarrassment.
Good grief. Give it a rest already. But remember Fox news brainwashes people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, prove me wrong. Let's pull out some quotes from the Narcsissist Dipshit in Chief literally said today "I have very nice language". Yeah, that's the type of commentary and oration I expect from the President of the fucking United States.
You're a fucking idiot if you think this guy is qualified to lead in anyway.
Trump supporters are either stupid, racist, greedy, willfully ignorant, or some combination of those.
I would also add blinded and consumed by their hatred of the other “team”....this is exactly what brought about this colossal calamity and maintains it.
Haha.
Haha.
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The conversation was civil. Looks like that has just taken a drastic turn the other way. Anyhow to stay on topic. If the rumors are the that he did this to not get written out if the show, it accomplished the opposite. They are cutting him from the remaining episodes this year.
I'm sorry, but civility is normalization at this point.
Dude -- there are endless venues to blow off your steam about the president.
You are a moment-by-moment example of why politics can't mix with this board.
You certainly didn't start it, but come on brother, what are you getting out of this?
We should be able to have discussions on current events and analyze how they are viewed without devolving into a Yahoo News comments section.
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In comment 14304156 Banks said:
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The conversation was civil. Looks like that has just taken a drastic turn the other way. Anyhow to stay on topic. If the rumors are the that he did this to not get written out if the show, it accomplished the opposite. They are cutting him from the remaining episodes this year.
I'm sorry, but civility is normalization at this point.
Dude -- there are endless venues to blow off your steam about the president.
You are a moment-by-moment example of why politics can't mix with this board.
You certainly didn't start it, but come on brother, what are you getting out of this?
We should be able to have discussions on current events and analyze how they are viewed without devolving into a Yahoo News comments section.
Blowing off steam. Don't expect any of this brainwashed sheep to be convinced, but god damn, I'm happy to tell them they are stupid. Don't really care if I get banned either, this board is dead as fuck.
20 years from now, I'll look at myself in the mirror and be proud I told every Trump supporter to go fuck themselves. I never stood for any of this, and I'm proud as fuck to say that.
Somehow, people here can convince themselves that a man who's campaign colluded with the RUSSIANS to win an election who then purges the FBI and DOJ is somehow good for the country. It's pathetic and these people should be called the fuck out.
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In comment 14304170 Sonic Youth said:
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In comment 14304156 Banks said:
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The conversation was civil. Looks like that has just taken a drastic turn the other way. Anyhow to stay on topic. If the rumors are the that he did this to not get written out if the show, it accomplished the opposite. They are cutting him from the remaining episodes this year.
I'm sorry, but civility is normalization at this point.
Dude -- there are endless venues to blow off your steam about the president.
You are a moment-by-moment example of why politics can't mix with this board.
You certainly didn't start it, but come on brother, what are you getting out of this?
We should be able to have discussions on current events and analyze how they are viewed without devolving into a Yahoo News comments section.
Blowing off steam. Don't expect any of this brainwashed sheep to be convinced, but god damn, I'm happy to tell them they are stupid. Don't really care if I get banned either, this board is dead as fuck.
20 years from now, I'll look at myself in the mirror and be proud I told every Trump supporter to go fuck themselves. I never stood for any of this, and I'm proud as fuck to say that.
Somehow, people here can convince themselves that a man who's campaign colluded with the RUSSIANS to win an election who then purges the FBI and DOJ is somehow good for the country. It's pathetic and these people should be called the fuck out.
That's really awesome. But for the rest of who a) haven't posited an opinion on the president and b) would prefer to have discussions without getting dry humped by your politics can you please cut it out?
And I promise you 20 years from now, munging up threads on a football website won't be a source of pride for you -- you'll have much bigger things to be proud of I hope.
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In comment 14304175 christian said:
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In comment 14304170 Sonic Youth said:
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In comment 14304156 Banks said:
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The conversation was civil. Looks like that has just taken a drastic turn the other way. Anyhow to stay on topic. If the rumors are the that he did this to not get written out if the show, it accomplished the opposite. They are cutting him from the remaining episodes this year.
I'm sorry, but civility is normalization at this point.
Dude -- there are endless venues to blow off your steam about the president.
You are a moment-by-moment example of why politics can't mix with this board.
You certainly didn't start it, but come on brother, what are you getting out of this?
We should be able to have discussions on current events and analyze how they are viewed without devolving into a Yahoo News comments section.
Blowing off steam. Don't expect any of this brainwashed sheep to be convinced, but god damn, I'm happy to tell them they are stupid. Don't really care if I get banned either, this board is dead as fuck.
20 years from now, I'll look at myself in the mirror and be proud I told every Trump supporter to go fuck themselves. I never stood for any of this, and I'm proud as fuck to say that.
Somehow, people here can convince themselves that a man who's campaign colluded with the RUSSIANS to win an election who then purges the FBI and DOJ is somehow good for the country. It's pathetic and these people should be called the fuck out.
That's really awesome. But for the rest of who a) haven't posited an opinion on the president and b) would prefer to have discussions without getting dry humped by your politics can you please cut it out?
And I promise you 20 years from now, munging up threads on a football website won't be a source of pride for you -- you'll have much bigger things to be proud of I hope.
you are a prime example of how and why Trump was elected. Most people who voted for Trump are not necessarily "Trump Supporters".
If you remember when Obama was running for POTUS the first time, the mantra was to elect him because the country did not need another 4 years of Bush policies. So, that was PART of the reason then.
Trump was elected because the DNC put a candidate up against him who already had PROVEN to be untrustworthy in POLITICS and she was linked to closely to her husband.
He was elected because the middle class worker was ignored for years and he connected with them while Hillary was focusing on the left and right coast states that she already won.
He was also elected because people were done being labeled as racist because you did not agree with Obama's policies. The identity politics that Obama started then pushed more people to to the polls who likely would have stayed home. Trump won states that were traditionally voting the other way.
So, you and the upcoming DNC nominees can continue with your usual talking points. Claiming that a large group of white people are racist Trump supporters, calling people stupid and more... and then you will be wondering why they did not vote for a socialist democrat.
Both you and those to the extreme right think you are smarter than everyone else when in reality YOU are the fucking sheep.
I am going to sit back and watch this shit storm for the next two years like TO with a bucket of popcorn. The candidates to the left doing everything they can to create a greater divide via identity politics often contradicting things they said just days before.... and then Trump with his ridiculous tweets and stupid comments basically sabotaging his own ability to win the next election.
Watching you and others will be fun
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20 years from now, I'll look at myself in the mirror and be proud I told every Trump supporter to go fuck themselves.
you are a prime example of how and why Trump was elected. Most people who voted for Trump are not necessarily "Trump Supporters".
If you remember when Obama was running for POTUS the first time, the mantra was to elect him because the country did not need another 4 years of Bush policies. So, that was PART of the reason then.
Trump was elected because the DNC put a candidate up against him who already had PROVEN to be untrustworthy in POLITICS and she was linked to closely to her husband.
He was elected because the middle class worker was ignored for years and he connected with them while Hillary was focusing on the left and right coast states that she already won.
He was also elected because people were done being labeled as racist because you did not agree with Obama's policies. The identity politics that Obama started then pushed more people to to the polls who likely would have stayed home. Trump won states that were traditionally voting the other way.
So, you and the upcoming DNC nominees can continue with your usual talking points. Claiming that a large group of white people are racist Trump supporters, calling people stupid and more... and then you will be wondering why they did not vote for a socialist democrat.
Both you and those to the extreme right think you are smarter than everyone else when in reality YOU are the fucking sheep.
I am going to sit back and watch this shit storm for the next two years like TO with a bucket of popcorn. The candidates to the left doing everything they can to create a greater divide via identity politics often contradicting things they said just days before.... and then Trump with his ridiculous tweets and stupid comments basically sabotaging his own ability to win the next election.
Watching you and others will be fun
The left is driving the greater divide? I'm not sure you have that right. The divide is being driven hard from both sides and Trump rode it harder than any candidate I've seen in my 33 short years on this planet.
How about the issues? Climate change? Health care? Economy? Guns? Voting rights? Drugs?
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20 years from now, I'll look at myself in the mirror and be proud I told every Trump supporter to go fuck themselves.
you are a prime example of how and why Trump was elected. Most people who voted for Trump are not necessarily "Trump Supporters".
If you remember when Obama was running for POTUS the first time, the mantra was to elect him because the country did not need another 4 years of Bush policies. So, that was PART of the reason then.
Trump was elected because the DNC put a candidate up against him who already had PROVEN to be untrustworthy in POLITICS and she was linked to closely to her husband.
He was elected because the middle class worker was ignored for years and he connected with them while Hillary was focusing on the left and right coast states that she already won.
He was also elected because people were done being labeled as racist because you did not agree with Obama's policies. The identity politics that Obama started then pushed more people to to the polls who likely would have stayed home. Trump won states that were traditionally voting the other way.
So, you and the upcoming DNC nominees can continue with your usual talking points. Claiming that a large group of white people are racist Trump supporters, calling people stupid and more... and then you will be wondering why they did not vote for a socialist democrat.
Both you and those to the extreme right think you are smarter than everyone else when in reality YOU are the fucking sheep.
I am going to sit back and watch this shit storm for the next two years like TO with a bucket of popcorn. The candidates to the left doing everything they can to create a greater divide via identity politics often contradicting things they said just days before.... and then Trump with his ridiculous tweets and stupid comments basically sabotaging his own ability to win the next election.
Watching you and others will be fun
You wanna try and stick it to me by voting for Trump? Then you're stupid.
Also, don't get this twisted -- I was not like this until this dipshit ran for office. My view towards him and his zealot supporters is a direct reaction to his campaign and presidency.
So don't blame sane people who hate Trump for his election.
Speaking of the military, gotta love President Bone Spurs shitting on an American war hero like John McCain, who, despite my dislike for his politics, gave more to this country than any of us.
Trump is a pig.
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20 years from now, I'll look at myself in the mirror and be proud I told every Trump supporter to go fuck themselves.
you are a prime example of how and why Trump was elected. Most people who voted for Trump are not necessarily "Trump Supporters".
If you remember when Obama was running for POTUS the first time, the mantra was to elect him because the country did not need another 4 years of Bush policies. So, that was PART of the reason then.
Trump was elected because the DNC put a candidate up against him who already had PROVEN to be untrustworthy in POLITICS and she was linked to closely to her husband.
He was elected because the middle class worker was ignored for years and he connected with them while Hillary was focusing on the left and right coast states that she already won.
He was also elected because people were done being labeled as racist because you did not agree with Obama's policies. The identity politics that Obama started then pushed more people to to the polls who likely would have stayed home. Trump won states that were traditionally voting the other way.
So, you and the upcoming DNC nominees can continue with your usual talking points. Claiming that a large group of white people are racist Trump supporters, calling people stupid and more... and then you will be wondering why they did not vote for a socialist democrat.
Both you and those to the extreme right think you are smarter than everyone else when in reality YOU are the fucking sheep.
I am going to sit back and watch this shit storm for the next two years like TO with a bucket of popcorn. The candidates to the left doing everything they can to create a greater divide via identity politics often contradicting things they said just days before.... and then Trump with his ridiculous tweets and stupid comments basically sabotaging his own ability to win the next election.
Watching you and others will be fun
How about the issues? Climate change? Health care? Economy? Guns? Voting rights? Drugs?
This is where the distinction between media and news is important.
There's never been a time in the history of the Western world where public commentary hasn't been tilted and biased. It has always been like that, by design.
If a public figure, candidate, celebrities etc. wants to engage on substantive discussion on policy, there are a number of news outlets that will report on it and there are a number of commentators who will debate it.
Now you have to ask yourself why do public figures, candidates, celebrities etc. talk in platitudes and present vanilla policy? You probably know the answer.
But there's a garbage in and out with commentators -- if someone wants substantive debate, pump out a stream of substantive proposals.
Could the moderators be checking to see whether such threads could remain civil? Well it was for quite awhile. Now it has dissolved in to namecalling by a few while most try to keep it civil. I hate banning and think it should be done in only extreme circumstances but if it needs to be done to allow threads like this on the board, I am for it.
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Any of you guys convince your counterparts that you're right yet? Wonder what the odds on that happening is...
Don't car eif I convince people, I know I"m right. I literally just want to tell Trumptards how fucking stupid they are.
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So much coverage/ink/segments devoted to HRC's emails & not the issues. And now we're seeing it again with trivial issues like Warren's DNA test, Harris talking about smoking pot while listening to Tupac, Klobuchar's treatment of her staff...
How about the issues? Climate change? Health care? Economy? Guns? Voting rights? Drugs?
This is where the distinction between media and news is important.
There's never been a time in the history of the Western world where public commentary hasn't been tilted and biased. It has always been like that, by design.
If a public figure, candidate, celebrities etc. wants to engage on substantive discussion on policy, there are a number of news outlets that will report on it and there are a number of commentators who will debate it.
Now you have to ask yourself why do public figures, candidates, celebrities etc. talk in platitudes and present vanilla policy? You probably know the answer.
But there's a garbage in and out with commentators -- if someone wants substantive debate, pump out a stream of substantive proposals.
If there's 1 major positive that could come out of this period, it's that hopefully in the not too distant future it will be a cautionary tale for people who speak/act extremely recklessly in pursuit of thinking the ends always justify the means. The most recent court defendant this past week certainly seems on track to learning that lesson over the next several decades.
If you truly believe the "base" hates non-whites and non-straight people, then I'm not sure what to tell you. Those aren't the words of a reasonable person.
I don't know a single Republican that hates non-whites or non-straight people, and I know 100s of them. I'm sure there are some out there that do, but as in all cases it is the fringes of people that are in every base.
I don't think that's true. The one person I know that I would consider a racist is an uneducated person who could give a crap about politics, in general. He just cares about himself.
That seems relatively accurate. In fact I would go as far as to say that a lot of the Anti-Trump or Anti-Repulican talk has caused a number of people to get fired up about politics in general. I'd be willing to bet the 2020 election ends with a record turnout on both side.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
Absolutely. The devolving requirement of truth as part of the public square very often portends bad things for a society.
There will always be murkiness, innuendo, caginess etc. but unequivocal fabrication and the corresponding acceptance because it's your team or you support said character in general is cowardice.
It's really not that complicated or sophisticated -- public figures and servants should be held to the very basic 1st grade standard of telling the truth.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
This is exactly where I am too, and most of the republicans I know. the left just brandishes all republicans with the racist/homophobe/etc brush to fire up their ever moving farther left base
Speaking of the military, gotta love President Bone Spurs shitting on an American war hero like John McCain, who, despite my dislike for his politics, gave more to this country than any of us.
Trump is a pig.
Could not have said it better myself.
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I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
If you are amongst his “base,” yet you say nothing when he demonizes the press, minorities, lgbt, women, the poor, etc., then, sorry, but you deserve to be pidgeon-holed right along with those marching with neo-nazis. Silence is picking a side, and when you are silent on these issues, you’re telling everyone that you’re okay with things.
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In comment 14304298 Big Al said:
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I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
I have a problem with the authoritarianism of this administration to make an end run around congress when convenient and the threat to Constitutional balance between branches. But I unlike many here are consistent and also had a problem with it in the previous administration with the end run around congress on the Iran deal and the pen and phone power to do stuff congress will not approve. Either you age against this type or stuff or not. You can’t pick and choose based on whether your politics agree with the President,
Congress passed the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act in 2015, so I’m not sure why this theme of Obama completely bypassing congress on the Iran deal keeps popping up from. Probably because one side eats fake news up like oatmeal at breakfast every morning. Now, I could bring up certain parties attempting to sell nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia without any other support from other branches of government, but why get into reality?
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In comment 14304298 Big Al said:
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I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
I have a problem with the authoritarianism of this administration to make an end run around congress when convenient and the threat to Constitutional balance between branches. But I unlike many here are consistent and also had a problem with it in the previous administration with the end run around congress on the Iran deal and the pen and phone power to do stuff congress will not approve. Either you age against this type or stuff or not. You can’t pick and choose based on whether your politics agree with the President,
I would agree and think this Congress should address a presidents ability to declare a national emergency. I also never said I was OK with the previous administrations actions bypassing congress but that’s not the point here. The point is that this “end around” is merely one bullet point on a long list of things that, if they were to happen in any other regime, would result in immediate impeachment proceedings yet it only passes as a minor shrug with this administration due to the prolific deception and corruption and their very intentional “flood the zone” strategy.
BuT wHaT aBoUt UrAnIuM oNe?!
Holy shit politics suck and really brings out the worst in people. Disgusting.
Holy shit politics suck and really brings out the worst in people. Disgusting.
It’s actually been very civil except for a couple minor outbursts....disgusting?? Hardly...
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In comment 14304324 Strip-Sack said:
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In comment 14304298 Big Al said:
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I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
I have a problem with the authoritarianism of this administration to make an end run around congress when convenient and the threat to Constitutional balance between branches. But I unlike many here are consistent and also had a problem with it in the previous administration with the end run around congress on the Iran deal and the pen and phone power to do stuff congress will not approve. Either you age against this type or stuff or not. You can’t pick and choose based on whether your politics agree with the President,
Congress passed the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act in 2015, so I’m not sure why this theme of Obama completely bypassing congress on the Iran deal keeps popping up from. Probably because one side eats fake news up like oatmeal at breakfast every morning. Now, I could bring up certain parties attempting to sell nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia without any other support from other branches of government, but why get into reality?
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 14304340 Big Al said:
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In comment 14304324 Strip-Sack said:
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In comment 14304298 Big Al said:
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I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
I have a problem with the authoritarianism of this administration to make an end run around congress when convenient and the threat to Constitutional balance between branches. But I unlike many here are consistent and also had a problem with it in the previous administration with the end run around congress on the Iran deal and the pen and phone power to do stuff congress will not approve. Either you age against this type or stuff or not. You can’t pick and choose based on whether your politics agree with the President,
Congress passed the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act in 2015, so I’m not sure why this theme of Obama completely bypassing congress on the Iran deal keeps popping up from. Probably because one side eats fake news up like oatmeal at breakfast every morning. Now, I could bring up certain parties attempting to sell nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia without any other support from other branches of government, but why get into reality?
it is not as clear as you make it out to be. That is why Trump could dump it without congressional approval. See artocle Link - ( New Window )
Guess it was too bad the Senate didn’t have the votes needed, right? Let me say that once again for you:
THE SENATE DID NOT HAVE THE VOTES NEEDED
So what did they do instead? Invited fucking Bibi to give a bullshit speech to Congress. Give me a break.
Not to mention the fact that the deal with Iran was actually working, and that there is no border emergency and that this is just an attempt to further line the pockets of Russian oligarchs who export steel to the US.
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In comment 14304346 732NYG said:
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In comment 14304340 Big Al said:
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In comment 14304324 Strip-Sack said:
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In comment 14304298 Big Al said:
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I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
I have a problem with the authoritarianism of this administration to make an end run around congress when convenient and the threat to Constitutional balance between branches. But I unlike many here are consistent and also had a problem with it in the previous administration with the end run around congress on the Iran deal and the pen and phone power to do stuff congress will not approve. Either you age against this type or stuff or not. You can’t pick and choose based on whether your politics agree with the President,
Congress passed the Iran Nuclear Agreement Review Act in 2015, so I’m not sure why this theme of Obama completely bypassing congress on the Iran deal keeps popping up from. Probably because one side eats fake news up like oatmeal at breakfast every morning. Now, I could bring up certain parties attempting to sell nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia without any other support from other branches of government, but why get into reality?
it is not as clear as you make it out to be. That is why Trump could dump it without congressional approval. See artocle Link - ( New Window )
Guess it was too bad the Senate didn’t have the votes needed, right? Let me say that once again for you:
THE SENATE DID NOT HAVE THE VOTES NEEDED
So what did they do instead? Invited fucking Bibi to give a bullshit speech to Congress. Give me a break.
Not to mention the fact that the deal with Iran was actually working, and that there is no border emergency and that this is just an attempt to further line the pockets of Russian oligarchs who export steel to the US.
Robert Gates - one of the most respected and reasonable cabinet members in recent history basically said - It was right to try to ake a deal but Obama wanted the deal too badly. Think that's pretty fair statement.
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In comment 14304298 Big Al said:
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I think the base cares about guns and abortion. I am pro choice but the extremes on both ends of the abortion issue are scary. My guess is Trump is actually pro choice but must pretend to be anti abortion.
I don’t think most of the “base” hate ethnic groups (although probably more for Muslims than other groups). As far as gays go, most don’t care (live and let live) but get annoyed with those always shoving this in their face. I would get annoyed if I heard a constant stream of I am proud to be left handed and we get discriminated against. Trump sometimes says stupid stuff and many wish he did not.
Many in the Democratic Party are going too far left. I am just hoping that the Democratic Party nominates someone moderate who I and many others could consider voting for. Otherwise I think they are giving Trump an easy rum to a second term. We could do better.
The problem is that it’s really much more than “...sometimes says stupid stuff” but this is how he’s rationalized by most Republicans. Everyone is certainly entitled to their own annoyances and grievances but if one truly takes a hard, honest look I find it impossible to sanction what’s going on with this regime. They are consistently undermining the rule of law and demonstrating a strong affinity for authoritarianism while turning a blind eye to clearly bigoted, misogynistic and xenophobic rhetoric and actions. We are ceding our democracy in plain sight and we really need to see the gravity of this IMO.
I have a problem with the authoritarianism of this administration to make an end run around congress when convenient and the threat to Constitutional balance between branches. But I unlike many here are consistent and also had a problem with it in the previous administration with the end run around congress on the Iran deal and the pen and phone power to do stuff congress will not approve. Either you age against this type or stuff or not. You can’t pick and choose based on whether your politics agree with the President,
This would be a fair argument only if you ignore the fact that the previous administration was operating with a Congress that had members of the opposite party in majority control that were not considering or acting on policy proposals, foreign or domestic, in good faith.
It's reasonable to characterize the Iran Deal as an inherently political maneuver by Obama (even though it wasn't executed unilaterally but in conjunction with 5 other major nations), but it has to also be acknowledged that the maneuver was just a progression from the environment that was already in existence in Washington where Congress itself was not functioning outside of a political spectrum. The normal system was broken.
That being said, to even begin comparing Trump's "end around" of Congress to Obama's regarding the Iran issue you would have to have at least some of the same variables in place - which would include the opposite party being in the majority of the Senate (which the Democrats aren't) and an agreement on the failure of the policy from the other 5 countries involved in the deal (which none of them are).
But if you’re using “what aboutisms” to argue a point you can’t completely ignore context either as things are very rarely apples to apples.
Perhaps, but I would argue that you’re conflating one specific example (no matter how similar) to rationalize the acceptance of an administration which truly has no historical comparison by any reasonable measure IMO.
Ironically, I think that's what you're doing within this comment itself about political discussions - you're minimizing the objective differences pointed out between two circumstances by describing it as a biased "rationale".
Facts and nuance are important, and THEY should be the thing that everyone should look out for most during conversations like this.
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Eli? Tell me the truth about a large percent of the base.
I don't know a single Republican that hates non-whites or non-straight people, and I know 100s of them. I'm sure there are some out there that do, but as in all cases it is the fringes of people that are in every base.
Take a visit to Reddit
That doesn't seem like something someone would vocalize. But that's just my experience walking this earth since '80.
This is correct. All the other crap is fluff, which party hates this or that, Trump is a racist, Dems are race bating is all crap. Pain and simple when people who make up stories to advance themselves it hurts those who are actually attacked for a specific reason. This should sicken all Americans whenpeople do this. Punish him to the full extent then have leaders from the right and left, men and women, actors, sports stars, teachers etc. speaking out how this is wrong. Then move on.
He might be, he says some really stupid things. I don't know the guy's heart so I really can't tell you.
I don't like Donald Trump, I didn't want to vote for him. I believe in voting for platforms and not personalities and I also believe in the necessity of making a choice in elections.
If you feel he is a racist, that's your opinion and fine with me.
Back to the purpose of the thread...
Jussie is a race baiting racist.
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In comment 14304270 XBRONX said:
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Eli? Tell me the truth about a large percent of the base.
I don't know a single Republican that hates non-whites or non-straight people, and I know 100s of them. I'm sure there are some out there that do, but as in all cases it is the fringes of people that are in every base.
LOL what?
Take a visit to Reddit
I meant people I know, not the cesspool of social media.
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a fact. Daddy was a known racist and he learned from daddy. Read up on the Trumps renting practices for their buildings in NY.
Back to the purpose of the thread...
Jussie is a race baiting racist.
Jussie Smollet is a dumbass and a POS. Who is even denying that? How is this relevant to Trump?
In comment 14304908 Eli Wilson said:
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In comment 14304275 Eli Wilson said:
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In comment 14304270 XBRONX said:
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Eli? Tell me the truth about a large percent of the base.
I don't know a single Republican that hates non-whites or non-straight people, and I know 100s of them. I'm sure there are some out there that do, but as in all cases it is the fringes of people that are in every base.
LOL what?
Take a visit to Reddit
I meant people I know, not the cesspool of social media.
Cool. The people you know are a very small % and portion of those out there. If you don't "know a single Republican that hates non-straight or non-white people" personally, nobody really gives a shit, being that they are actual neo nazi's running for offie as Republicans in Illinois (this is not hyperbole).
It isn't relevant to Trump. If you can remotely follow or comprehend a sentence, I said that I was getting this back on topic which was all about Jussie... not Trump.
I mean... the thread is "Empire star may have orchestrated an attack on himself". None of the reports indicated that Trump was there.
So, why the fuck are you asking me what this has to do with Trump?
Bringing Trump into it is completely besides the point and irrelevant.
"But but but he tweeted about it hur de hur de hur!"
Who gives a shit? He's been doing this for 2+ years now.
My god people give it a fucking rest.
Response to Coast Guardsman arrest - ( New Window )
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the hot list and cache of weapons please.
You asked. Response to Coast Guardsman arrest - ( New Window )
He thinks it’s a shame that it happened? Or that he got caught? Glad that’s over with, he can go back to attacking the media now.
Bringing Trump into it is completely besides the point and irrelevant.
"But but but he tweeted about it hur de hur de hur!"
Who gives a shit? He's been doing this for 2+ years now.
My god people give it a fucking rest.
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How is this relevant to Trump?
It isn't relevant to Trump. If you can remotely follow or comprehend a sentence, I said that I was getting this back on topic which was all about Jussie... not Trump.
I mean... the thread is "Empire star may have orchestrated an attack on himself". None of the reports indicated that Trump was there.
So, why the fuck are you asking me what this has to do with Trump?
Anyway, anyone who thinks that Trump is not a big deal and acting like people are overblowing it have their head in the sand. Doesn't matter - history will not look down kindly on them, and they will be judged accordingly.
LOL...Not me, I've stayed a mile away from that part of the discussion
The discussion has been pretty civil with the exception of a few and has been much better than in the past.
I am not sure about others but logical comments are more convincing to me than hysteria based on hatred.
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Is why some people here still have posting privileges.
LOL...Not me, I've stayed a mile away from that part of the discussion
I should have. I've been here long enough and know better.
Other than serving as a perfect example of how our society is divided?
Fringe morons on both sides are exactly why we are here, both on BBI and in real life.
you think? ENM derangement syndrome too.
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.
you think? ENM derangement syndrome too.
Haha can’t argue with that
too much of anything is bad.