It's interesting... there's something about the "planned" that renders it incomparable to the "accomplished." Hasson actually committed no action, so ultimately he is little more than a hypothetical.
RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
I'm not saying he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically. I'm saying he plays to his base because a) his base is easy and b) his base gives him every republican in Washington. His base has shown that they will turn on any republican who doesn't give him what he wants. It's why the only republicans who don't toe the line are the ones who decided to not run for office again. He wields that power in DC like a hammer. That's why in the last shutdown, he ran the show.... into the ground. It was a doomed strategy from the start but no one could get through to him such that he would realize it.
But, from a larger standpoint, I don't think I was commenting on strategy at all. I don't disagree that he's stuck to his "principles" as much as Carter. The difference is (in my opinion) that Carter actually believed in his principles. He was arguably the worst president of my lifetime (and I am a liberal's liberal) but that failure was guided by principles that he held dearly. Those principles have been much more effective in private service than they were in public service. You can see the difference in their life's works. Trump jumped into a weak Republican party and curb stomped the nerds running for president. 15 years before that he was a democrat. Every step he's made since then has been guided by a desire for power and influence - not any deeply held beliefs. It worked. Hats off to him, but he's not some flawed figure pursuing his ideals - George W is better described that way. He's a personality who craves adulation and power and refuses to take responsibility for anything negative. Full stop.
Tribal and partisan division is as old as society. Instant access and more avenues to endulge and engage are probably what historians will write about this era.
What's unique and alarming is the erosion of truth as an ante to generally participate in the market place of ideas. That normally portends to bad things for a society.
Debating, bickering, and even sometimes crossing the line aren't calamities when batting around hard topics.
But the full scale adoption of lies and setups as part of the social dialogue is historically very, very dangerous.
I'm more troubled a public figure found it plausible to cook up a stunt like that, than any group or individual on the sideline's reaction.
RE: RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
I'm not saying he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically. I'm saying he plays to his base because a) his base is easy and b) his base gives him every republican in Washington. His base has shown that they will turn on any republican who doesn't give him what he wants. It's why the only republicans who don't toe the line are the ones who decided to not run for office again. He wields that power in DC like a hammer. That's why in the last shutdown, he ran the show.... into the ground. It was a doomed strategy from the start but no one could get through to him such that he would realize it.
But, from a larger standpoint, I don't think I was commenting on strategy at all. I don't disagree that he's stuck to his "principles" as much as Carter. The difference is (in my opinion) that Carter actually believed in his principles. He was arguably the worst president of my lifetime (and I am a liberal's liberal) but that failure was guided by principles that he held dearly. Those principles have been much more effective in private service than they were in public service. You can see the difference in their life's works. Trump jumped into a weak Republican party and curb stomped the nerds running for president. 15 years before that he was a democrat. Every step he's made since then has been guided by a desire for power and influence - not any deeply held beliefs. It worked. Hats off to him, but he's not some flawed figure pursuing his ideals - George W is better described that way. He's a personality who craves adulation and power and refuses to take responsibility for anything negative. Full stop.
To say that Trump playing to his base gives him every Republican in Washington is ludicrous. Half of the Republican establishment are never-Trumpers. Paul Ryan was totally anti-Trump. McConnell gives him only what he has to. Weekly Standard,(RIP), National Review are anti-Trump. His base is made up of Tea Partiers, populist Democrats, and some conservative Republicans. I was not at all a Trump fan during the primaries. I never believed he was a conservative. But everything he has done in office points to a person with real conservative principles. Does he make an ass of himself most times that he speaks off the cuff? Yes he does. But no one else who ran as a Republican in 2016 would have accomplished anywhere close to as much as far as a conservative agenda as Trump has. As far as him being a hammer, he hasn't a clue on how to keep the membership in line compared to Harry Reid and Nacny Pelosi.
Was just perusing the FBI hate crime stats. In 2017, there were about 2400 hate crimes reported against African-Americans, whose population is about 34 million. There were about 1000 hate crimes reported against Jews, with a population of about 7 million. So on a per capita basis, the crimes against Jews are way higher than against African-Americans. Just sayin'
That is simplistic post...I don't like the guy, but he has been pretty spot on in most items if you step back and actually see through his bluster. Yes the shutdown was a loser, but there way no way Chuck and Nancy could give in because it would be another feather in his cap and they could not afford for him to win again. But the trade deals went against every economist and he was correct. He will likely get a good result from China because they need us infinitely more than we need them. He knows it. They know it. Everyone previous was afraid to stomp on them and China stole from our companies, cheated on trade and still does so while denying it.(I liked when Obama tried to open a dialogue with Iran and Cuba and I like that Trump is trying to negotiate with North Korea. Whether it works out is slim, but beats the alternative.)
I absolutely despise his name calling and petty cheap shots(although the stuff with Warren was prophetic). I do think this investigation is an absolute scam and McCabe pretty much proves it is with his comments in the CBS interview. Now what Trump said to McCabe's wife is disgusting and he deserved a bloody nose for it. But I do think he is right about the top level of the FBI being corrupt and think they should be charged with conspiracy and lying - same exact things that Flynn, George P, Stone et al, have been charged with.
than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
I'm not saying he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically. I'm saying he plays to his base because a) his base is easy and b) his base gives him every republican in Washington. His base has shown that they will turn on any republican who doesn't give him what he wants. It's why the only republicans who don't toe the line are the ones who decided to not run for office again. He wields that power in DC like a hammer. That's why in the last shutdown, he ran the show.... into the ground. It was a doomed strategy from the start but no one could get through to him such that he would realize it.
But, from a larger standpoint, I don't think I was commenting on strategy at all. I don't disagree that he's stuck to his "principles" as much as Carter. The difference is (in my opinion) that Carter actually believed in his principles. He was arguably the worst president of my lifetime (and I am a liberal's liberal) but that failure was guided by principles that he held dearly. Those principles have been much more effective in private service than they were in public service. You can see the difference in their life's works. Trump jumped into a weak Republican party and curb stomped the nerds running for president. 15 years before that he was a democrat. Every step he's made since then has been guided by a desire for power and influence - not any deeply held beliefs. It worked. Hats off to him, but he's not some flawed figure pursuing his ideals - George W is better described that way. He's a personality who craves adulation and power and refuses to take responsibility for anything negative. Full stop.
To say that Trump playing to his base gives him every Republican in Washington is ludicrous. Half of the Republican establishment are never-Trumpers. Paul Ryan was totally anti-Trump. McConnell gives him only what he has to. Weekly Standard,(RIP), National Review are anti-Trump. His base is made up of Tea Partiers, populist Democrats, and some conservative Republicans. I was not at all a Trump fan during the primaries. I never believed he was a conservative. But everything he has done in office points to a person with real conservative principles. Does he make an ass of himself most times that he speaks off the cuff? Yes he does. But no one else who ran as a Republican in 2016 would have accomplished anywhere close to as much as far as a conservative agenda as Trump has. As far as him being a hammer, he hasn't a clue on how to keep the membership in line compared to Harry Reid and Nacny Pelosi.
Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You can't just pretend that all the other years that Trump was Trump didn't exist. He all of a sudden stopped being a pro-choice democrat. How does that lead to him having deeply held political beliefs? Letting Stephen Miller write policy while he watches Fox News doesn't mean he's a true conservative.
which posters strictly get their news from Fox and friends.
Same can be said about all the major orgs, MSNBC and CNN, so stop the crap. They all lie and MSNBC and CNN have an agenda (as does FOX). In case you haven't noticed, all news orgs are just shills and mouth pieces for their party of choice which is why the news orgs have a lower rating than congress.
Not the intended point of the investigation was it? Glad they got Manafort and Cohen for tax evasion, but Tax evasion and lying to investigators is not Russia Collusion - which was Mueller's mandate. Bet they can do the same research on some of congress and get similar results. Yeah, putting Papadopoulos in jail for 14 days is a coup..there are members of the FBI and Clinton's crew that did the exact same thing. McCabe has been referred for criminal investigation by the IG for lying to congress. Hillary lied to the FBI about what was on her server and actually destroyed subpoenaed evidence, but no charges?
Not the intended point of the investigation was it? Glad they got Manafort and Cohen for tax evasion, but Tax evasion and lying to investigators is not Russia Collusion - which was Mueller's mandate. Bet they can do the same research on some of congress and get similar results. Yeah, putting Papadopoulos in jail for 14 days is a coup..there are members of the FBI and Clinton's crew that did the exact same thing. McCabe has been referred for criminal investigation by the IG for lying to congress. Hillary lied to the FBI about what was on her server and actually destroyed subpoenaed evidence, but no charges?
Wrong. That wasn't his mandate. Rosenstein wrote the order which said that any links and/or coordination between the Russian's and anyone else associated with the campaign DJT and ALSO “anything else that comes up directly from the investigation.
And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
is still up, have to say besides being surprised that it is, I'm proud that other than some passive aggressive fly-by's people have disagreed but have been pretty respectful of each other in doing so.
More than on football threads at least. Even the snark/disagreements in here weren't as vicious as football threads and certainly pale in comparison to what you see on social media.
I only mention this because I think we've lost civil discourse in society today, no one has an open mind and many people are on the extremes.
People exhibit fascist behavior (or at worst intolerance) and call out their opposites for being fascists, it makes my head spin, trying to see who is claiming the moral high ground, when everyone contradicts themselves and then twists themselves into s pretzel to justify their position.
I know it's small and probably can get worse before getting deleted, but well done.
People exhibit fascist behavior (or at worst intolerance) and call out their opposites for being fascists, it makes my head spin,
yeah... it really is funny. Just like on college campuses when the kids are screaming about fascism while they are trying to shut down free speech and differing opinions.
RE: RE: RE: How is an investigation that's resulted in Â
Wrong. That wasn't his mandate. Rosenstein wrote the order which said that any links and/or coordination between the Russian's and anyone else associated with the campaign DJT and ALSO “anything else that comes up directly from the investigation.
And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
Please stop acting like where you get news is superior to anyone else's. They are all biased and to keep bringing it up is childish. In fact, I do not get my news from a talk show. The rest of your post is reasonable to discuss.
We will disagree on the true objective of the Mueller's probe, but I agree you are right on the range. The real object was Collusion and Obstruction - but you cannot overlook illegal activity, so anything ancillary flies, too. And I do not have a problem with putting Gates, Manafort or Cohen away - scum. Flynn was a dumbass as everything he did was legal, but he lied to FBI even though the agents wrote he did not. Manafort and Gates were tax evasion and lying to investigators - not Russia(Ukraine??). George P and Flynn were Russia but not what they were looking for. Papadopoulos lied about a date of a meeting (legal meeting)- he got 14 days. Wow major indictment there. Flynn lied about a legal meeting with Kislyak - and even Comey admitted that they scammed him by saying he did not need a lawyer and laughed about it. Quite sad. They tried to go after Sessions for talking with Kislyak at an event when as Senator on the Foreign Affairs Committee(IIRC or whatever committee he was on) it was well within his scope to talk to an ambassador.
If you don't think nitpicking dates and memories is just a scam to squeeze people, you are not telling the truth. I'd bet my bottom dollar you could get 535 members of congress with similar questions - did you ever talk to so and so, or what dates did you speak with so and so. Can you remember every post, text, or email you have written in the past two years on Giants Football? (just an example).
Have to go. Aside from the news org snipe, it was pleasant talking with you.
CNN and MSNBC are just as biased as Fox, but at least Fox hosts don't pretend to not be partisan. Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo are closer to Democratic activists then the objective journalists that CNN claims they are.
RE: RE: RE: How is an investigation that's resulted in Â
And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
Both Tiki and I find it comical that there are people who still believe that the Russians were responsible for Trump getting elected. As if they forced individuals to pull a lever.
Meanwhile, ignored is the fact that the DNC themselves interfered with the election by sabotaging the entire primary election to hand it to Hillary. Anyone else would have beaten Trump. Instead, they block all others from stepping forward and torpedo Bernie.
If you do not think there were others who wanted to run a few years ago, all you need to do is see how many there are already lined up this time.
RE: RE: RE: RE: How is an investigation that's resulted in Â
And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
Both Tiki and I find it comical that there are people who still believe that the Russians were responsible for Trump getting elected. As if they forced individuals to pull a lever.
Meanwhile, ignored is the fact that the DNC themselves interfered with the election by sabotaging the entire primary election to hand it to Hillary. Anyone else would have beaten Trump. Instead, they block all others from stepping forward and torpedo Bernie.
If you do not think there were others who wanted to run a few years ago, all you need to do is see how many there are already lined up this time.
lol. The DNC "interfered" with the election? Weird defense of the Trump team's ties to Russia and their interference. The democrats are actually allowed to make the rules for their own primaries. As you note, it didn't work out well in the election but it was hardly "interference". Bernie might have beaten Trump but he didn't beat HRC - it's that simple.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
Because Graham is scared sh*itless of a primary challenge in 2020, thus him cozying up to Trump. Sad to see a man who once deemed DJT unsuitable for the office being his water boy. A senator from TX comes to mind too. Hey, you accuse my old man of killing JFK/call my wife ugly...that's cool. I'm going to be subservient to you.
Politics aside (if pos) it's odd to say Mueller has strayed from RU Â
- his investigation indicted the specific Russian state hackers who worked with Wikileaks to distribute
- he indicted a literal agent of Russia who was living in DC and interacting in US politics
- Re: manafort a judge ruled last week that he lied to prosecutors about sharing sensitive campaign data with an accused russian agent he worked with for years in ukraine
- his court filings in the Stone indictment claim to have his communications with Wikileaks, which the current admin has even called out as a russian state actor
- he (Mueller) passed off other elements of the investigation (like Cohen) to other jurisdictions since they were unrelated to Russia
That's all information that has passed through the legal system, been approved by the current administrations DOJ, and held up in front of grand juries, federal judges, and on appeals. Have they also brought other provable tax/fraud/foreign lobbying charges as leverage over some of the above? Yes. But he has expressly linked most of his findings and indictments so far to Russian activity.
Again, forgetting the political theater or insinuations of whatever it means, if there can't be faith in facts that have been proven through the legal system to this point it would seem to be a very bad sign for the country that there will ever be a shared set of facts on anything.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
I don't disagree with any of this. I'll just say that the problem that the Republican Party has is that Trump is the biggest star the party has ever had and his base is fiercely active and loyal. So, if you go against Trump he can get you primaried out of town. That's why it's rare that any republican disagrees with him publicly and one in a leadership position disagreeing with him is unheard of. So sure, a few moderates have disagreed and even voted against him. But the leadership has given him anything he wants.
It's amazing that Republicans are going along with this emergency declaration the way they are. You know most of them disagree with it (not the wall, the declaration) completely but the power of the President brings them in line.
The echo chamber argument is a little simplistic. The idea of a news medium also playing the part of commentator is not new or some existential threat. Take a look at the news business and function during the founding of this country -- not incredibly different than today. The history of the world is full of successful ideologues.
The logical fallacy is that public discourse on politics and by extension government should be in the business of "healing" or "reconciliation." That's funny as shit.
Government exists to solve practical issues for the public, and to further their liberty and happiness.
It has and never will be an exercise in healing, or defending the social fabric. That must come from other mechanisms, politics and government have never achieved that.
The primary issue in American politics and government is that fact-based, truthful positioning is becoming less required.
Public figures, private discussion, and media all seem to be less beholden to that foundation.
That's the scary as shit part of all of it.
RE: Politics aside (if pos) it's odd to say Mueller has strayed from RU Â
- his investigation indicted the specific Russian state hackers who worked with Wikileaks to distribute
- he indicted a literal agent of Russia who was living in DC and interacting in US politics
- Re: manafort a judge ruled last week that he lied to prosecutors about sharing sensitive campaign data with an accused russian agent he worked with for years in ukraine
- his court filings in the Stone indictment claim to have his communications with Wikileaks, which the current admin has even called out as a russian state actor
- he (Mueller) passed off other elements of the investigation (like Cohen) to other jurisdictions since they were unrelated to Russia
That's all information that has passed through the legal system, been approved by the current administrations DOJ, and held up in front of grand juries, federal judges, and on appeals. Have they also brought other provable tax/fraud/foreign lobbying charges as leverage over some of the above? Yes. But he has expressly linked most of his findings and indictments so far to Russian activity.
Again, forgetting the political theater or insinuations of whatever it means, if there can't be faith in facts that have been proven through the legal system to this point it would seem to be a very bad sign for the country that there will ever be a shared set of facts on anything.
Well said....and points to the real danger in all of this, a complete full frontal assault on truth and facts, it's insidious and unfortunately effective.
The primary issue in American politics and government is that fact-based, truthful positioning is becoming less required.
Public figures, private discussion, and media all seem to be less beholden to that foundation.
That's the scary as shit part of all of it.
Agree entirely. There is a fog of war from the over-saturation of every form of media around us and far too many are embracing that fog to drift further into deception - across all sides.
Ironically enough 1 of the people who seems to be finding consequences for his actions is the empire star. It's certainly not perfect but our justice system seems to be the last vestige of accountability.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
I don't disagree with any of this. I'll just say that the problem that the Republican Party has is that Trump is the biggest star the party has ever had and his base is fiercely active and loyal. So, if you go against Trump he can get you primaried out of town. That's why it's rare that any republican disagrees with him publicly and one in a leadership position disagreeing with him is unheard of. So sure, a few moderates have disagreed and even voted against him. But the leadership has given him anything he wants.
It's amazing that Republicans are going along with this emergency declaration the way they are. You know most of them disagree with it (not the wall, the declaration) completely but the power of the President brings them in line.
Offhand, I can't think of any GOP Senator whogot primaried, certainly not who got primaried and lost. Flake and Corker both dropped out. Flake's seat was won by McSally, who is more liberal than he was. And the Rep.Senatorial CC, led by McConnell, poured money in to support every incumbent who might have an intra-party problem, starting with the special election in Alabama.
Please name a few items that the leadership has passed legislation on to placate Trump. He's constantly fighting with them over big spending bills that he always ends up signing. They have all publicly supported Mueller and Rosenstein. Many opposed his NAFTA renegotiation and his tarriffs. They oppose pulling out of Syria and Afghanistan, they oppose cutting back on NATO. Almost everything he's accomplished has been by executive order. The Senate has confirmed a bunch of his judges, but their are still a ton of judges and other federal appointments being held up in the Republican controlled pipeline, many for well over a year.
Ironically enough 1 of the people who seems to be finding consequences for his actions is the empire star. It's certainly not perfect but our justice system seems to be the last vestige of accountability.
If he ends up spending a minute in jail, I will gladly eat a very large crow
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
I don't disagree with any of this. I'll just say that the problem that the Republican Party has is that Trump is the biggest star the party has ever had and his base is fiercely active and loyal. So, if you go against Trump he can get you primaried out of town. That's why it's rare that any republican disagrees with him publicly and one in a leadership position disagreeing with him is unheard of. So sure, a few moderates have disagreed and even voted against him. But the leadership has given him anything he wants.
It's amazing that Republicans are going along with this emergency declaration the way they are. You know most of them disagree with it (not the wall, the declaration) completely but the power of the President brings them in line.
Offhand, I can't think of any GOP Senator whogot primaried, certainly not who got primaried and lost. Flake and Corker both dropped out. Flake's seat was won by McSally, who is more liberal than he was. And the Rep.Senatorial CC, led by McConnell, poured money in to support every incumbent who might have an intra-party problem, starting with the special election in Alabama.
Please name a few items that the leadership has passed legislation on to placate Trump. He's constantly fighting with them over big spending bills that he always ends up signing. They have all publicly supported Mueller and Rosenstein. Many opposed his NAFTA renegotiation and his tarriffs. They oppose pulling out of Syria and Afghanistan, they oppose cutting back on NATO. Almost everything he's accomplished has been by executive order. The Senate has confirmed a bunch of his judges, but their are still a ton of judges and other federal appointments being held up in the Republican controlled pipeline, many for well over a year.
McSally actually lost to the election to Democrat Kyrsten Sinema. McSally was named to replace Jon Kyl after he stepped down 12/31, Kyl replaced McCain.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
Offhand, I can't think of any GOP Senator whogot primaried, certainly not who got primaried and lost. Flake and Corker both dropped out. Flake's seat was won by McSally, who is more liberal than he was.
McSally actually lost to the election to Democrat Kyrsten Sinema. McSally was named to replace Jon Kyl after he stepped down 12/31, Kyl replaced McCain.
Yes, poor wording on my part. I meant to say that McSally won the primary for Flake's seat. She was supported by both Trump and McConnell against the 2 conservative candidates, Sheriff Joe and Kelli Ward. Being in AZ, I'm only too aware that she lost to Synema. She's going to lose the McCain seat also when she has to run in 2 years unless she gets knocked out in a primary. She's got a moderate record and is a lousy campaigner. I don't see conservatives coming out for her in the general
That’s BS. Plain and simple. Cuomo? Yes he’s “just as biased” as Hannity and Tucker and the rest. Wrong. Not close. Even Lemon. Not close to that crew.
Anyway...unbelievable this guy is sticking to his story. It was never going to end well but he’s going to make it worse.
That’s BS. Plain and simple. Cuomo? Yes he’s “just as biased” as Hannity and Tucker and the rest. Wrong. Not close. Even Lemon. Not close to that crew.
Anyway...unbelievable this guy is sticking to his story. It was never going to end well but he’s going to make it worse.
I would agree with you on guys like Cooper, King, Jones, and even Tapper.
But Don Lemon is the worst. He shouldnt even be allowed on TV.
either intentionally or ignorantly compare opinion talk show hosts like Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity with "journalists" like Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo and Brian Stetler. Fox news reporters are Shepard Smith, Brett Baier - etc. so if you want to compare journalists that's who you use from Fox.
One of those groups are hired to provide opinions, one is hired to report the news. Anyone defending Don Lemon's objectivity as a news reporter is part of the problem, not the solution.
Again, people have opinions and their confirmation bias leads them to be more likely to believe tweets, stories, rumors, "news" that matches their opinions. It's hard to break out of that. It's human nature. For all people, not just liberals or not just conservatives.
But people who report news are supposed to be objective and report facts, but what Lara Logan said is probably more true than not, and sure, it's probably some confirmation bias from me being willing to believe Lara, but facts are facts and 85% of journalists are registered democrats. I think that hurts them with their objectivity and while the word of Lara Logan isn't gospel, but I believe her to be more in tune with reality on this than most of us.
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“Although the media has always been left-leaning, we’ve abandoned our pretense or at least the effort to be objective today. We’ve become political activists, and some could argue propagandists, and there’s some merit to that,” Logan added. “Standards are out the window, I mean you read one story after another or hear it and it’s all based on one anonymous administration official, former administration official. That’s not journalism, that’s horseshit.”
That’s BS. Plain and simple. Cuomo? Yes he’s “just as biased” as Hannity and Tucker and the rest. Wrong. Not close. Even Lemon. Not close to that crew.
Anyway...unbelievable this guy is sticking to his story. It was never going to end well but he’s going to make it worse.
This is why the left and right can hardly have a civil conversation anymore. We see things through such totally different lenses. I have no idea how it ever gets better. But Trump didn't start this. Divisions over political correctness, identity politics, climate change, etc. go back way before he came on the scene. He hasn't made anything better, but other than capitulating I don't know how anyone could. Obama certainly didn't help with healing on any of this stuff, and if people think he tried to, well, there's that schism again :).
either intentionally or ignorantly compare opinion talk show hosts like Tucker Carlson or Sean Hannity with "journalists" like Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo and Brian Stetler. Fox news reporters are Shepard Smith, Brett Baier - etc. so if you want to compare journalists that's who you use from Fox.
One of those groups are hired to provide opinions, one is hired to report the news. Anyone defending Don Lemon's objectivity as a news reporter is part of the problem, not the solution.
Again, people have opinions and their confirmation bias leads them to be more likely to believe tweets, stories, rumors, "news" that matches their opinions. It's hard to break out of that. It's human nature. For all people, not just liberals or not just conservatives.
But people who report news are supposed to be objective and report facts, but what Lara Logan said is probably more true than not, and sure, it's probably some confirmation bias from me being willing to believe Lara, but facts are facts and 85% of journalists are registered democrats. I think that hurts them with their objectivity and while the word of Lara Logan isn't gospel, but I believe her to be more in tune with reality on this than most of us.
Quote:
“Although the media has always been left-leaning, we’ve abandoned our pretense or at least the effort to be objective today. We’ve become political activists, and some could argue propagandists, and there’s some merit to that,” Logan added. “Standards are out the window, I mean you read one story after another or hear it and it’s all based on one anonymous administration official, former administration official. That’s not journalism, that’s horseshit.”
Thanks PJ, that's generally what I was trying to get across with my post
Second off, it's laughable that anyone can claim the Mueller investigation is a "joke", or that Trump's tax cuts and trade deals are somehow big winners.
It's even more laughable that people think that man has the mental capacity to actually think any of this through.
Seriously sad how brainwashed some people are here by Fox News. This disgusting, infantile man is assaulting our institutions and constitutions and somehow people defend it. Pathetic.
RE: I think Trump has been truer to his core beliefs Â
than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
Can agree with your first line. Trump sure has been truer to his core beliefs, which are:
1) Running the country like a crime boss
2) Enriching himself
3) Feeding his ego
4) Spewing hate and division
5) Having a complex about anything related to Obama
6) Separating the US from our allies abroad
Think about that.
It's interesting... there's something about the "planned" that renders it incomparable to the "accomplished." Hasson actually committed no action, so ultimately he is little more than a hypothetical.
I'm not saying he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically. I'm saying he plays to his base because a) his base is easy and b) his base gives him every republican in Washington. His base has shown that they will turn on any republican who doesn't give him what he wants. It's why the only republicans who don't toe the line are the ones who decided to not run for office again. He wields that power in DC like a hammer. That's why in the last shutdown, he ran the show.... into the ground. It was a doomed strategy from the start but no one could get through to him such that he would realize it.
But, from a larger standpoint, I don't think I was commenting on strategy at all. I don't disagree that he's stuck to his "principles" as much as Carter. The difference is (in my opinion) that Carter actually believed in his principles. He was arguably the worst president of my lifetime (and I am a liberal's liberal) but that failure was guided by principles that he held dearly. Those principles have been much more effective in private service than they were in public service. You can see the difference in their life's works. Trump jumped into a weak Republican party and curb stomped the nerds running for president. 15 years before that he was a democrat. Every step he's made since then has been guided by a desire for power and influence - not any deeply held beliefs. It worked. Hats off to him, but he's not some flawed figure pursuing his ideals - George W is better described that way. He's a personality who craves adulation and power and refuses to take responsibility for anything negative. Full stop.
Link below, worth a quick listen.
Link - ( New Window )
What's unique and alarming is the erosion of truth as an ante to generally participate in the market place of ideas. That normally portends to bad things for a society.
Debating, bickering, and even sometimes crossing the line aren't calamities when batting around hard topics.
But the full scale adoption of lies and setups as part of the social dialogue is historically very, very dangerous.
I'm more troubled a public figure found it plausible to cook up a stunt like that, than any group or individual on the sideline's reaction.
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than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
I'm not saying he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically. I'm saying he plays to his base because a) his base is easy and b) his base gives him every republican in Washington. His base has shown that they will turn on any republican who doesn't give him what he wants. It's why the only republicans who don't toe the line are the ones who decided to not run for office again. He wields that power in DC like a hammer. That's why in the last shutdown, he ran the show.... into the ground. It was a doomed strategy from the start but no one could get through to him such that he would realize it.
But, from a larger standpoint, I don't think I was commenting on strategy at all. I don't disagree that he's stuck to his "principles" as much as Carter. The difference is (in my opinion) that Carter actually believed in his principles. He was arguably the worst president of my lifetime (and I am a liberal's liberal) but that failure was guided by principles that he held dearly. Those principles have been much more effective in private service than they were in public service. You can see the difference in their life's works. Trump jumped into a weak Republican party and curb stomped the nerds running for president. 15 years before that he was a democrat. Every step he's made since then has been guided by a desire for power and influence - not any deeply held beliefs. It worked. Hats off to him, but he's not some flawed figure pursuing his ideals - George W is better described that way. He's a personality who craves adulation and power and refuses to take responsibility for anything negative. Full stop.
To say that Trump playing to his base gives him every Republican in Washington is ludicrous. Half of the Republican establishment are never-Trumpers. Paul Ryan was totally anti-Trump. McConnell gives him only what he has to. Weekly Standard,(RIP), National Review are anti-Trump. His base is made up of Tea Partiers, populist Democrats, and some conservative Republicans. I was not at all a Trump fan during the primaries. I never believed he was a conservative. But everything he has done in office points to a person with real conservative principles. Does he make an ass of himself most times that he speaks off the cuff? Yes he does. But no one else who ran as a Republican in 2016 would have accomplished anywhere close to as much as far as a conservative agenda as Trump has. As far as him being a hammer, he hasn't a clue on how to keep the membership in line compared to Harry Reid and Nacny Pelosi.
That is simplistic post...I don't like the guy, but he has been pretty spot on in most items if you step back and actually see through his bluster. Yes the shutdown was a loser, but there way no way Chuck and Nancy could give in because it would be another feather in his cap and they could not afford for him to win again. But the trade deals went against every economist and he was correct. He will likely get a good result from China because they need us infinitely more than we need them. He knows it. They know it. Everyone previous was afraid to stomp on them and China stole from our companies, cheated on trade and still does so while denying it.(I liked when Obama tried to open a dialogue with Iran and Cuba and I like that Trump is trying to negotiate with North Korea. Whether it works out is slim, but beats the alternative.)
I absolutely despise his name calling and petty cheap shots(although the stuff with Warren was prophetic). I do think this investigation is an absolute scam and McCabe pretty much proves it is with his comments in the CBS interview. Now what Trump said to McCabe's wife is disgusting and he deserved a bloody nose for it. But I do think he is right about the top level of the FBI being corrupt and think they should be charged with conspiracy and lying - same exact things that Flynn, George P, Stone et al, have been charged with.
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In comment 14302735 Bill in UT said:
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than anyone since Jimmy Carter. Everyone since Carter, including Reagan, were basically establishment politicians into expediency. If Obama was true, he would have stuck with the single payer healthcare he believed in. Instead he compromised with what he had the votes for. Really, what has Trump proposed that you think was meant to ingratiate himself to the majority of Americans? You can't say that he plays to his minority base and that at the same time he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically.
I'm not saying he puts his finger to the wind and does what's better for him politically. I'm saying he plays to his base because a) his base is easy and b) his base gives him every republican in Washington. His base has shown that they will turn on any republican who doesn't give him what he wants. It's why the only republicans who don't toe the line are the ones who decided to not run for office again. He wields that power in DC like a hammer. That's why in the last shutdown, he ran the show.... into the ground. It was a doomed strategy from the start but no one could get through to him such that he would realize it.
But, from a larger standpoint, I don't think I was commenting on strategy at all. I don't disagree that he's stuck to his "principles" as much as Carter. The difference is (in my opinion) that Carter actually believed in his principles. He was arguably the worst president of my lifetime (and I am a liberal's liberal) but that failure was guided by principles that he held dearly. Those principles have been much more effective in private service than they were in public service. You can see the difference in their life's works. Trump jumped into a weak Republican party and curb stomped the nerds running for president. 15 years before that he was a democrat. Every step he's made since then has been guided by a desire for power and influence - not any deeply held beliefs. It worked. Hats off to him, but he's not some flawed figure pursuing his ideals - George W is better described that way. He's a personality who craves adulation and power and refuses to take responsibility for anything negative. Full stop.
To say that Trump playing to his base gives him every Republican in Washington is ludicrous. Half of the Republican establishment are never-Trumpers. Paul Ryan was totally anti-Trump. McConnell gives him only what he has to. Weekly Standard,(RIP), National Review are anti-Trump. His base is made up of Tea Partiers, populist Democrats, and some conservative Republicans. I was not at all a Trump fan during the primaries. I never believed he was a conservative. But everything he has done in office points to a person with real conservative principles. Does he make an ass of himself most times that he speaks off the cuff? Yes he does. But no one else who ran as a Republican in 2016 would have accomplished anywhere close to as much as far as a conservative agenda as Trump has. As far as him being a hammer, he hasn't a clue on how to keep the membership in line compared to Harry Reid and Nacny Pelosi.
Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You can't just pretend that all the other years that Trump was Trump didn't exist. He all of a sudden stopped being a pro-choice democrat. How does that lead to him having deeply held political beliefs? Letting Stephen Miller write policy while he watches Fox News doesn't mean he's a true conservative.
Same can be said about all the major orgs, MSNBC and CNN, so stop the crap. They all lie and MSNBC and CNN have an agenda (as does FOX). In case you haven't noticed, all news orgs are just shills and mouth pieces for their party of choice which is why the news orgs have a lower rating than congress.
Not the intended point of the investigation was it? Glad they got Manafort and Cohen for tax evasion, but Tax evasion and lying to investigators is not Russia Collusion - which was Mueller's mandate. Bet they can do the same research on some of congress and get similar results. Yeah, putting Papadopoulos in jail for 14 days is a coup..there are members of the FBI and Clinton's crew that did the exact same thing. McCabe has been referred for criminal investigation by the IG for lying to congress. Hillary lied to the FBI about what was on her server and actually destroyed subpoenaed evidence, but no charges?
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multiple indictments/convictions a 'sham'?
Not the intended point of the investigation was it? Glad they got Manafort and Cohen for tax evasion, but Tax evasion and lying to investigators is not Russia Collusion - which was Mueller's mandate. Bet they can do the same research on some of congress and get similar results. Yeah, putting Papadopoulos in jail for 14 days is a coup..there are members of the FBI and Clinton's crew that did the exact same thing. McCabe has been referred for criminal investigation by the IG for lying to congress. Hillary lied to the FBI about what was on her server and actually destroyed subpoenaed evidence, but no charges?
Wrong. That wasn't his mandate. Rosenstein wrote the order which said that any links and/or coordination between the Russian's and anyone else associated with the campaign DJT and ALSO “anything else that comes up directly from the investigation.
And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
And which posters who strictly get their news from HuffPo
More than on football threads at least. Even the snark/disagreements in here weren't as vicious as football threads and certainly pale in comparison to what you see on social media.
I only mention this because I think we've lost civil discourse in society today, no one has an open mind and many people are on the extremes.
People exhibit fascist behavior (or at worst intolerance) and call out their opposites for being fascists, it makes my head spin, trying to see who is claiming the moral high ground, when everyone contradicts themselves and then twists themselves into s pretzel to justify their position.
I know it's small and probably can get worse before getting deleted, but well done.
People exhibit fascist behavior (or at worst intolerance) and call out their opposites for being fascists, it makes my head spin,
yeah... it really is funny. Just like on college campuses when the kids are screaming about fascism while they are trying to shut down free speech and differing opinions.
Wrong. That wasn't his mandate. Rosenstein wrote the order which said that any links and/or coordination between the Russian's and anyone else associated with the campaign DJT and ALSO “anything else that comes up directly from the investigation.
And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
Please stop acting like where you get news is superior to anyone else's. They are all biased and to keep bringing it up is childish. In fact, I do not get my news from a talk show. The rest of your post is reasonable to discuss.
We will disagree on the true objective of the Mueller's probe, but I agree you are right on the range. The real object was Collusion and Obstruction - but you cannot overlook illegal activity, so anything ancillary flies, too. And I do not have a problem with putting Gates, Manafort or Cohen away - scum. Flynn was a dumbass as everything he did was legal, but he lied to FBI even though the agents wrote he did not. Manafort and Gates were tax evasion and lying to investigators - not Russia(Ukraine??). George P and Flynn were Russia but not what they were looking for. Papadopoulos lied about a date of a meeting (legal meeting)- he got 14 days. Wow major indictment there. Flynn lied about a legal meeting with Kislyak - and even Comey admitted that they scammed him by saying he did not need a lawyer and laughed about it. Quite sad. They tried to go after Sessions for talking with Kislyak at an event when as Senator on the Foreign Affairs Committee(IIRC or whatever committee he was on) it was well within his scope to talk to an ambassador.
If you don't think nitpicking dates and memories is just a scam to squeeze people, you are not telling the truth. I'd bet my bottom dollar you could get 535 members of congress with similar questions - did you ever talk to so and so, or what dates did you speak with so and so. Can you remember every post, text, or email you have written in the past two years on Giants Football? (just an example).
Have to go. Aside from the news org snipe, it was pleasant talking with you.
CNN and MSNBC are just as biased as Fox, but at least Fox hosts don't pretend to not be partisan. Don Lemon and Chris Cuomo are closer to Democratic activists then the objective journalists that CNN claims they are.
And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
Both Tiki and I find it comical that there are people who still believe that the Russians were responsible for Trump getting elected. As if they forced individuals to pull a lever.
Meanwhile, ignored is the fact that the DNC themselves interfered with the election by sabotaging the entire primary election to hand it to Hillary. Anyone else would have beaten Trump. Instead, they block all others from stepping forward and torpedo Bernie.
If you do not think there were others who wanted to run a few years ago, all you need to do is see how many there are already lined up this time.
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And that is exactly what Mueller is doing. Flynn. Manafort. Gates. All worked for djt, all caught lying about Russia. Stop watching fox and friends you might learn something.
Both Tiki and I find it comical that there are people who still believe that the Russians were responsible for Trump getting elected. As if they forced individuals to pull a lever.
Meanwhile, ignored is the fact that the DNC themselves interfered with the election by sabotaging the entire primary election to hand it to Hillary. Anyone else would have beaten Trump. Instead, they block all others from stepping forward and torpedo Bernie.
If you do not think there were others who wanted to run a few years ago, all you need to do is see how many there are already lined up this time.
lol. The DNC "interfered" with the election? Weird defense of the Trump team's ties to Russia and their interference. The democrats are actually allowed to make the rules for their own primaries. As you note, it didn't work out well in the election but it was hardly "interference". Bernie might have beaten Trump but he didn't beat HRC - it's that simple.
Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
- he indicted a literal agent of Russia who was living in DC and interacting in US politics
- Re: manafort a judge ruled last week that he lied to prosecutors about sharing sensitive campaign data with an accused russian agent he worked with for years in ukraine
- his court filings in the Stone indictment claim to have his communications with Wikileaks, which the current admin has even called out as a russian state actor
- he (Mueller) passed off other elements of the investigation (like Cohen) to other jurisdictions since they were unrelated to Russia
That's all information that has passed through the legal system, been approved by the current administrations DOJ, and held up in front of grand juries, federal judges, and on appeals. Have they also brought other provable tax/fraud/foreign lobbying charges as leverage over some of the above? Yes. But he has expressly linked most of his findings and indictments so far to Russian activity.
Again, forgetting the political theater or insinuations of whatever it means, if there can't be faith in facts that have been proven through the legal system to this point it would seem to be a very bad sign for the country that there will ever be a shared set of facts on anything.
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Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
I don't disagree with any of this. I'll just say that the problem that the Republican Party has is that Trump is the biggest star the party has ever had and his base is fiercely active and loyal. So, if you go against Trump he can get you primaried out of town. That's why it's rare that any republican disagrees with him publicly and one in a leadership position disagreeing with him is unheard of. So sure, a few moderates have disagreed and even voted against him. But the leadership has given him anything he wants.
It's amazing that Republicans are going along with this emergency declaration the way they are. You know most of them disagree with it (not the wall, the declaration) completely but the power of the President brings them in line.
The logical fallacy is that public discourse on politics and by extension government should be in the business of "healing" or "reconciliation." That's funny as shit.
Government exists to solve practical issues for the public, and to further their liberty and happiness.
It has and never will be an exercise in healing, or defending the social fabric. That must come from other mechanisms, politics and government have never achieved that.
The primary issue in American politics and government is that fact-based, truthful positioning is becoming less required.
Public figures, private discussion, and media all seem to be less beholden to that foundation.
That's the scary as shit part of all of it.
- he indicted a literal agent of Russia who was living in DC and interacting in US politics
- Re: manafort a judge ruled last week that he lied to prosecutors about sharing sensitive campaign data with an accused russian agent he worked with for years in ukraine
- his court filings in the Stone indictment claim to have his communications with Wikileaks, which the current admin has even called out as a russian state actor
- he (Mueller) passed off other elements of the investigation (like Cohen) to other jurisdictions since they were unrelated to Russia
That's all information that has passed through the legal system, been approved by the current administrations DOJ, and held up in front of grand juries, federal judges, and on appeals. Have they also brought other provable tax/fraud/foreign lobbying charges as leverage over some of the above? Yes. But he has expressly linked most of his findings and indictments so far to Russian activity.
Again, forgetting the political theater or insinuations of whatever it means, if there can't be faith in facts that have been proven through the legal system to this point it would seem to be a very bad sign for the country that there will ever be a shared set of facts on anything.
Well said....and points to the real danger in all of this, a complete full frontal assault on truth and facts, it's insidious and unfortunately effective.
Public figures, private discussion, and media all seem to be less beholden to that foundation.
That's the scary as shit part of all of it.
Agree entirely. There is a fog of war from the over-saturation of every form of media around us and far too many are embracing that fog to drift further into deception - across all sides.
Ironically enough 1 of the people who seems to be finding consequences for his actions is the empire star. It's certainly not perfect but our justice system seems to be the last vestige of accountability.
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In comment 14302938 Heisenberg said:
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Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
I don't disagree with any of this. I'll just say that the problem that the Republican Party has is that Trump is the biggest star the party has ever had and his base is fiercely active and loyal. So, if you go against Trump he can get you primaried out of town. That's why it's rare that any republican disagrees with him publicly and one in a leadership position disagreeing with him is unheard of. So sure, a few moderates have disagreed and even voted against him. But the leadership has given him anything he wants.
It's amazing that Republicans are going along with this emergency declaration the way they are. You know most of them disagree with it (not the wall, the declaration) completely but the power of the President brings them in line.
Offhand, I can't think of any GOP Senator whogot primaried, certainly not who got primaried and lost. Flake and Corker both dropped out. Flake's seat was won by McSally, who is more liberal than he was. And the Rep.Senatorial CC, led by McConnell, poured money in to support every incumbent who might have an intra-party problem, starting with the special election in Alabama.
Please name a few items that the leadership has passed legislation on to placate Trump. He's constantly fighting with them over big spending bills that he always ends up signing. They have all publicly supported Mueller and Rosenstein. Many opposed his NAFTA renegotiation and his tarriffs. They oppose pulling out of Syria and Afghanistan, they oppose cutting back on NATO. Almost everything he's accomplished has been by executive order. The Senate has confirmed a bunch of his judges, but their are still a ton of judges and other federal appointments being held up in the Republican controlled pipeline, many for well over a year.
Ironically enough 1 of the people who seems to be finding consequences for his actions is the empire star. It's certainly not perfect but our justice system seems to be the last vestige of accountability.
If he ends up spending a minute in jail, I will gladly eat a very large crow
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In comment 14303181 Bill in UT said:
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In comment 14302938 Heisenberg said:
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Name one time a leader in congress took a position against him. Paul Ryan was a never trumper? Maybe. But you can't tell by how he acted in office. Poor McConnell was stuck with the stupid shutdown because the President couldn't see that he lost and no one had the balls to tell him.
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the Republican Party. I am no longer, btw, a Republican. The Republican Party is basically a pro-establishment and pro-big business. They are more beholden to the Koch brothers and their donors than they are to Trump. At most 25% of Congressional Republicans fit into a tea Party or populist mold. as a whole, the party tolerates Trump at best. Where he suits their needs, they hop on board, in areas like appointing judges. Where he agrees to more money for the military and farm lobbies, they love him. The Koch brothers and others want cheap immigrant labor and Ryan was in their back pocket. He kept any meaningful bills to build a wall from coming up. Ryan favored amnesty. I'm sure Ryan will have some very nice business opportunities in his future. "Conservative" Senators like Marco Rubio and Ben Sasse constantly criticize Trump. Collins and Murkowsky have voted against him several times. Romney will be a constant pain in his ass. Lindsay Graham has never met a war he doesn't like and often disagrees with Trump, as did his big brother McCain. Surprisingly, on other topics, Graham has been more supportive of Trump since McCain is gone.
I don't disagree with any of this. I'll just say that the problem that the Republican Party has is that Trump is the biggest star the party has ever had and his base is fiercely active and loyal. So, if you go against Trump he can get you primaried out of town. That's why it's rare that any republican disagrees with him publicly and one in a leadership position disagreeing with him is unheard of. So sure, a few moderates have disagreed and even voted against him. But the leadership has given him anything he wants.
It's amazing that Republicans are going along with this emergency declaration the way they are. You know most of them disagree with it (not the wall, the declaration) completely but the power of the President brings them in line.
Offhand, I can't think of any GOP Senator whogot primaried, certainly not who got primaried and lost. Flake and Corker both dropped out. Flake's seat was won by McSally, who is more liberal than he was. And the Rep.Senatorial CC, led by McConnell, poured money in to support every incumbent who might have an intra-party problem, starting with the special election in Alabama.
Please name a few items that the leadership has passed legislation on to placate Trump. He's constantly fighting with them over big spending bills that he always ends up signing. They have all publicly supported Mueller and Rosenstein. Many opposed his NAFTA renegotiation and his tarriffs. They oppose pulling out of Syria and Afghanistan, they oppose cutting back on NATO. Almost everything he's accomplished has been by executive order. The Senate has confirmed a bunch of his judges, but their are still a ton of judges and other federal appointments being held up in the Republican controlled pipeline, many for well over a year.
McSally actually lost to the election to Democrat Kyrsten Sinema. McSally was named to replace Jon Kyl after he stepped down 12/31, Kyl replaced McCain.
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Offhand, I can't think of any GOP Senator whogot primaried, certainly not who got primaried and lost. Flake and Corker both dropped out. Flake's seat was won by McSally, who is more liberal than he was.
McSally actually lost to the election to Democrat Kyrsten Sinema. McSally was named to replace Jon Kyl after he stepped down 12/31, Kyl replaced McCain.
Yes, poor wording on my part. I meant to say that McSally won the primary for Flake's seat. She was supported by both Trump and McConnell against the 2 conservative candidates, Sheriff Joe and Kelli Ward. Being in AZ, I'm only too aware that she lost to Synema. She's going to lose the McCain seat also when she has to run in 2 years unless she gets knocked out in a primary. She's got a moderate record and is a lousy campaigner. I don't see conservatives coming out for her in the general
That’s BS. Plain and simple. Cuomo? Yes he’s “just as biased” as Hannity and Tucker and the rest. Wrong. Not close. Even Lemon. Not close to that crew.
Anyway...unbelievable this guy is sticking to his story. It was never going to end well but he’s going to make it worse.
Quote:
“CNN and MSNBC are just as biased as Fox, “
That’s BS. Plain and simple. Cuomo? Yes he’s “just as biased” as Hannity and Tucker and the rest. Wrong. Not close. Even Lemon. Not close to that crew.
Anyway...unbelievable this guy is sticking to his story. It was never going to end well but he’s going to make it worse.
I would agree with you on guys like Cooper, King, Jones, and even Tapper.
But Don Lemon is the worst. He shouldnt even be allowed on TV.
One of those groups are hired to provide opinions, one is hired to report the news. Anyone defending Don Lemon's objectivity as a news reporter is part of the problem, not the solution.
Again, people have opinions and their confirmation bias leads them to be more likely to believe tweets, stories, rumors, "news" that matches their opinions. It's hard to break out of that. It's human nature. For all people, not just liberals or not just conservatives.
But people who report news are supposed to be objective and report facts, but what Lara Logan said is probably more true than not, and sure, it's probably some confirmation bias from me being willing to believe Lara, but facts are facts and 85% of journalists are registered democrats. I think that hurts them with their objectivity and while the word of Lara Logan isn't gospel, but I believe her to be more in tune with reality on this than most of us.
Quote:
“CNN and MSNBC are just as biased as Fox, “
That’s BS. Plain and simple. Cuomo? Yes he’s “just as biased” as Hannity and Tucker and the rest. Wrong. Not close. Even Lemon. Not close to that crew.
Anyway...unbelievable this guy is sticking to his story. It was never going to end well but he’s going to make it worse.
This is why the left and right can hardly have a civil conversation anymore. We see things through such totally different lenses. I have no idea how it ever gets better. But Trump didn't start this. Divisions over political correctness, identity politics, climate change, etc. go back way before he came on the scene. He hasn't made anything better, but other than capitulating I don't know how anyone could. Obama certainly didn't help with healing on any of this stuff, and if people think he tried to, well, there's that schism again :).
One of those groups are hired to provide opinions, one is hired to report the news. Anyone defending Don Lemon's objectivity as a news reporter is part of the problem, not the solution.
Again, people have opinions and their confirmation bias leads them to be more likely to believe tweets, stories, rumors, "news" that matches their opinions. It's hard to break out of that. It's human nature. For all people, not just liberals or not just conservatives.
But people who report news are supposed to be objective and report facts, but what Lara Logan said is probably more true than not, and sure, it's probably some confirmation bias from me being willing to believe Lara, but facts are facts and 85% of journalists are registered democrats. I think that hurts them with their objectivity and while the word of Lara Logan isn't gospel, but I believe her to be more in tune with reality on this than most of us.
Quote:
“Although the media has always been left-leaning, we’ve abandoned our pretense or at least the effort to be objective today. We’ve become political activists, and some could argue propagandists, and there’s some merit to that,” Logan added. “Standards are out the window, I mean you read one story after another or hear it and it’s all based on one anonymous administration official, former administration official. That’s not journalism, that’s horseshit.”
Thanks PJ, that's generally what I was trying to get across with my post
Now I know.
Second off, it's laughable that anyone can claim the Mueller investigation is a "joke", or that Trump's tax cuts and trade deals are somehow big winners.
It's even more laughable that people think that man has the mental capacity to actually think any of this through.
Seriously sad how brainwashed some people are here by Fox News. This disgusting, infantile man is assaulting our institutions and constitutions and somehow people defend it. Pathetic.
Can agree with your first line. Trump sure has been truer to his core beliefs, which are:
1) Running the country like a crime boss
2) Enriching himself
3) Feeding his ego
4) Spewing hate and division
5) Having a complex about anything related to Obama
6) Separating the US from our allies abroad
That's it. Those are his core beliefs.
What a national embarrassment.