Let me preface this by saying a disclaimer. Believe info or not. I don't care. People are now hesitant to post info anymore but here goes anyway.
1. The Giants are committed to Eli this year. There intention is to win. If they were planning on taking a qb at 6 overall he would play relatively soon. By having Eli back means the player taken at 6 will be a guy they think can help them now. Eli will play as long as teams in any semblance of playoff race.
2. The Giants may trade Beckham but most likely next year. Was told it's like Tiki w Eli. There's no way they want Beckham aground a young qb around a young qb.
3. The Giants really like Sam Beal.
4. A trade down in first round isn't likely but possible. The Giants like next year's qb's much better. Taking a later first round pick this year allows them to get help this year but also acquire ammo to get a qb next year if necessary.
5. Gettleman first target in free agency will be Darryl Williams at RT.
6. Jamon Brown is expected to resign before free agency. Online will be solder Hernandez halapio Brown Williams in perfect world.
Fire away
If he is correct, then they have a succession plan in place. It begins next year.
Otherwise, none of this is surprising given how we know the Giants operate.
Trust in Brett Rypien. My #3 QB :)
Yeah, who would want a young QB to be able to throw a 10 yard slant and have the receiver take it all the way? Get that guy outta here.
Otherwise, none of this is surprising given how we know the Giants operate.
I guess I read this differently than you -- he didn't say if they pick a QB at 6 - he wrote
he wrote the player taken at 6
Based upon the scenarios that you suggest, trading down makes absolute sense.
If the Giants are not taking QB this year they will be in position to trade their pick to another team that covets one of the QBs.
The Giants can accumulate additional picks this year and next year.
If the Giants could trade down and obtain a late first, a first next year, and a second this year that would help a lot.
If true, holy (blank)!
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why would you want him around any QB?
Otherwise, none of this is surprising given how we know the Giants operate.
My guess. Eli can put OBJ in his place when he starts his "give me the ball" shit. Where as a young QB may be intimidated and unable to do the same.
If you draft a QB this high you'd better be sure as shit that's the guy you want.
If true, holy (blank)!
Based upon the scenarios that you suggest, trading down makes absolute sense.
If the Giants are not taking QB this year they will be in position to trade their pick to another team that covets one of the QBs.
The Giants can accumulate additional picks this year and next year.
If the Giants could trade down and obtain a late first, a first next year, and a second this year that would help a lot.
They have to have the right dancing partner, and it probably depends on if Haskins falls to them at 6.
5. Gettleman first target in free agency will be Darryl Williams at RT.
6. Jamon Brown is expected to resign before free agency. Online will be solder Hernandez halapio Brown Williams in perfect world.
I think we can upgrade from Halapio and hope we can target a top ranked center in Day 2 of the draft. If anything, to at least push Halapio for a starting position.
If true, holy (blank)!
My guess (and that is all it is since none of us really knows) is that his attitude post getting paid sucks and doesnt fit with the locker room clean up they are trying. Eli certainly seemed to grow as a young QB after Shockey and Tiki's personalities were removed.
Makes it tricky to arrive at a fair deal, particularly for a significant move back
If true, holy (blank)!
Exactly. This is why I hope this guy got bad info because, if it's true, it paints a picture of a front office flailing around without any plan.
That didn't sound to me like "they are not thinking about QB at #6." That sounded like if they pick a guy at #6 he will play this year only if the Giants are out of it.
I am in the 50/50 camp on OBJ. I love his playmaking, speed, what he does to the defenses.....but also see where a trade makes sense because we can add a premium pick and maybe another and the draft this year is deep in WR talent.
I still love the sight (in my mind) of Haskins directing our offense with a solid OL, Barkley, Engram & our WR set as it plays out. I think he has the make-up to be our guy for 20 years.
Just my 2 cents....but I am excited with the prospect of this offseason because I believe DG has a smart plan in place.
If true, holy (blank)!
Because Eli is going to be the starter for the next 4 years!
Bwahhahhaahhaa!!
Trading Beckham is not a win now move. If they signed him to a big money contract as a piece of the rebuild, trading him the next year and saddling themselves with a huge dead money hit when trying to compete is bafflingly short sighted.
seriously. if this stuff is true, they are a complete disaster.
Hasn't most of the whining been against that notion?
Meaningful football in December!
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Fans got the front office they deserved with all the win now whining. Thanks for sharing, jt.
Hasn't most of the whining been against that notion?
Most of what I read is a preoccupation with what the Giants will be in 2019. That's all most fans can think about, the one season at hand.
If Giants ownership is making front office hiring decisions based on what fans want then the problem goes well beyond the fans, Shurmur and Gettlemen.
Sadly, I think ownership has shown that their decision making is driven primarily by trying to placate fans and the media in the absence of any real plan.
Good info and interesting, and it makes sense considering how the Giants operate.
Odell's deal always was more of a 3 year one to me so trading him after next year (or the year after that) is something which I thought the Giants would go. The Giants are building around Saquon, as they should.
The problem with this is you are trying to combine this regime with the previous regime.
The two must be separated. The new regime turned over 66% of the roster. 2/3 of the roster was replaced in a single offseason. That's not "a few tweaks".
This isn't about trading it down and rebuilding; it's always been "one more run with Eli".
Who was the last championship team to be built around a running back - the '90s Cowboys?
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competing. That philosophy has worked wonders for the last 6 or 7 years.
The problem with this is you are trying to combine this regime with the previous regime.
The two must be separated. The new regime turned over 66% of the roster. 2/3 of the roster was replaced in a single offseason. That's not "a few tweaks".
In all fairness most of the turnover was at the bottom of the roster to start the season. I think most teams in the NFL have considerable churn to the bottom of the roster each year, even successful ones.
That is not to say they didn't make a good number of changes, but the core of the team at the start of the year year, save the draft picks, was largely the same as 2017.
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The Giants are building around Saquon, as they should.
Who was the last championship team to be built around a running back - the '90s Cowboys?
What was the strength of the 2013 Seahawks offense?
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The Giants are building around Saquon, as they should.
Who was the last championship team to be built around a running back - the '90s Cowboys?
To me, Saquon is Marshall Faulk. The Rams didn't become dominant Rams team until he got there. Warner had all those yards. Bruce and Holt. But Faulk made that team go.
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The Giants are building around Saquon, as they should.
Who was the last championship team to be built around a running back - the '90s Cowboys?
2018 Rams won the (NFC) championship built around a RB. Maybe win it all if he's healthy.
If true, holy (blank)!
It’s time for people to worry about an OL or defense first. If the playoffs told us anything, is that QB play doesn’t win games like most people want to believe.
As I expected, this incredibly incompetent front office is falling for the Fool's Gold that was the second half of the season.
While Anderson wasn’t great... Denver revolved around a run game and defense.
Well, to be fair, they made it to back to back Superbowls and had they actually RUN THE BALL at the end of the second one, they would have won that one too.
Sign me up for building a team that can go to back to back Superbowls.
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The Giants are building around Saquon, as they should.
Who was the last championship team to be built around a running back - the '90s Cowboys?
How about the two late '90's Broncos SB teams featuring Terrell Davis?
1. If the Giants are really committed to winning this year, the choice is Eli or a free agent.....cutting Eli saves 17M....and all of that may be gobbled up by the free agent....but does that guarantee we win?
So the safe play is to keep Eli......but what if, in some mock drafts, no qb's are taken when we are at the podium? That means we have the pick of the qb litter in the draft(Or, if DG doesn't like the qb's this year, and someone approaches him for the pick, we could possibly have a windfall)....I would find it hard for DG to not pull the trigger on someone...which means a first round pick who may not contribute this year, to help this team win.....
But let's say DG doesn't draft a QB....and has a winning season with improvements to the roster.....that makes getting a qb much harder next year, without selling the farm....
2. I do not see that happening unless OBj pulls a Pittsburg Shuffle, like Antonio Brown....and besides, we don't even know what kind of year OBj will have yet....
3.They can like him, love him, even adopt him if they want.....but they don't know if he can play or if that shoulder can stand up to the rigors of the NFL....
4. The only way a trade down happens is, you think there are several players of equal value to your team that you think will still be there later, AND someone has to come a callin' for that pick......
5. Do we need another sink hole of cap money in one player in the OL, like Solder? I would rather Draft a RT, or find an adequate replacement, rather than do another Solder deal...
6. Why would he sign BEFORE , and not try to get his best deal on the open market? Besides, I don't think he can sign before March 14th...As for Halapio, I hope he is replaced.....as for RT, hope DG does not get in a bidding war for Williams....and it's even possible someone may overpay Brown.....
I think Beckham is more likely to be traded next year, but because the cap hit is more manageable than this year. Like others, I find it difficult to believe the Giants would have signed him to a long term deal if they didn't want him around a young QB.
I do hope the Giants trade down, but neither Gettleman or Reese has even done so. I'm typically against trading down out of the top 10, but the talent available at #6 might not be enough to outweigh the extra draft picks that could be had by doing so. That of course assumes you can find a trade partner.
I am fine signing Williams, and resigning Brown.
Eh, agents likely know who's interested and at what price. I guess they can take him to FA and hope that someone that misses out on the better OGs gets desperate and overpays, but there's also a risk that teams fill their needs and he's forced to then sign a cheap deal (like Fluker last year) in the 2nd/3rd wave of FA.
But if they are "all in" on Eli and winning, you can't rule out this team getting to 9-10 wins. As much as I think it's a long shot, and really galactically stupid as a plan, it can't be ruled out in this league of attrition.
If that happens, Jints Central can kiss goodbye any chance of getting a crack at the "better 2020 QB class".
Well, without coughing up a ton of compensation to move up from the 15-23 spot.
1. If the Giants are really committed to winning this year, the choice is Eli or a free agent.....cutting Eli saves 17M....and all of that may be gobbled up by the free agent....but does that guarantee we win?
So the safe play is to keep Eli......but what if, in some mock drafts, no qb's are taken when we are at the podium? That means we have the pick of the qb litter in the draft(Or, if DG doesn't like the qb's this year, and someone approaches him for the pick, we could possibly have a windfall)....I would find it hard for DG to not pull the trigger on someone...which means a first round pick who may not contribute this year, to help this team win.....
But let's say DG doesn't draft a QB....and has a winning season with improvements to the roster.....that makes getting a qb much harder next year, without selling the farm....
2. I do not see that happening unless OBj pulls a Pittsburg Shuffle, like Antonio Brown....and besides, we don't even know what kind of year OBj will have yet....
3.They can like him, love him, even adopt him if they want.....but they don't know if he can play or if that shoulder can stand up to the rigors of the NFL....
4. The only way a trade down happens is, you think there are several players of equal value to your team that you think will still be there later, AND someone has to come a callin' for that pick......
5. Do we need another sink hole of cap money in one player in the OL, like Solder? I would rather Draft a RT, or find an adequate replacement, rather than do another Solder deal...
6. Why would he sign BEFORE , and not try to get his best deal on the open market? Besides, I don't think he can sign before March 14th...As for Halapio, I hope he is replaced.....as for RT, hope DG does not get in a bidding war for Williams....and it's even possible someone may overpay Brown.....
Why would anyone here say where they got their info from? We've been told by mods that people with the team read this forum. Why would you throw someone you know under the bus and get them fired just to appease people who won't believe it regardless of the source.
With Eli in the last year of his deal, they're now forcing themselves into a corner: either re-sign him past this year, or overpay to move up in the 2020 draft for a QB, which will certainly be a heavy price to pay.
Mid-rounds are a good place to grab some interior OL depth and luckily we have a few extra picks there this year. I'd be surprised if they don't take at least one C/G in the 4th-5th rounds to compete with Halapio/Pulley at C and/or Brown at RG.
With Eli in the last year of his deal, they're now forcing themselves into a corner: either re-sign him past this year, or overpay to move up in the 2020 draft for a QB, which will certainly be a heavy price to pay.
On the brighter side, we could tank in 2020 and have a shot at Trevor Lawrence.
As I expected, this incredibly incompetent front office is falling for the Fool's Gold that was the second half of the season.
This doesn't make sense to me. Nor does GoTerps, "it's all about Eli". Or any of the other "win now" complaints.
Win now would likely mean getting a plethora of old, established FA vets. Don't see that happening. Listed here is one FA (plus Brown). All young and both necessities (wouldn't you agree that having a capable OLine is a necessity?) for ELi but also for the future?
Entering the draft is not a "win now" or Eli-driven thing. They're pretty much required to enter the draft. And, having done so, unless you're Minnesota or whoever it was, you're required to pick a player. I can't say for sure, but my guess is that they will pick players who fit both current gaps and future growth.
You yourself said that you wouldn't waste a #6 on a QB in this draft. Well, there is no viable substitute for Eli this year and there would not be even if they went all in for a QB at #6. So, Eli's presence says nothing whatsoever about win now or build for the future. Moving down to move up next year is not a win it for ELi strategy or one that says they have no succession plan.
The only alternative to what they're doing wrt to the win in 2019 versus win post-ELi would be to do the '76'er "process" thing and totally tank for number one in 2020 by cutting Eli and having no QB at all. Which they could easily do with Lauletta. And, I don't see anyone that would accept a total tank job.
This carping about Eli is dumb because he is actually pretty irrelevant to any of the steps outlined above. His presence doesn't force them to do anything and it doesn't prevent them from doing any thing. He's simply the designated placeholder at QB because he's really the only option that makes sense in the overall scheme for the future (which likely is Fromm or Tua).
Secure RT....add depth..OL should finally be serviceable. It took 9 years. Ugh
BPA @6 should be on defense, especially if a couple of QBs go early.
OBJ does not have much patience.
Thank you.....
With Eli in the last year of his deal, they're now forcing themselves into a corner: either re-sign him past this year, or overpay to move up in the 2020 draft for a QB, which will certainly be a heavy price to pay.
Well, he said they may be trying to stockpile draft picks this year to make a move in 2020. Which would jive with what Gettleman has always said. If you see a guy you covet you move heaven and earth to get him.
The Chiefs moved from what? 27 to 10 to get Mahomes? And the price wasn't even that bad. Let's not act like it's some impossible feat.
Of course it is because the intel also suggests Jints Central really likes the 2020 QB class. And in order to maximize the chances to get into position to choose a QB from that better basket, you need the another poor season to secure the highest possible draft slot.
I'm all for that as a strategy. But thinking you can get there by also competing for a playoff spot could seriously result in mortgaging the future...
Build a solid roster built around running the ball, stopping the run, and rushing the passer and the rest (QB) will work itself out.
It really is that simple.
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Of course it is because the intel also suggests Jints Central really likes the 2020 QB class. And in order to maximize the chances to get into position to choose a QB from that better basket, you need the another poor season to secure the highest possible draft slot.
I'm all for that as a strategy. But thinking you can get there by also competing for a playoff spot could seriously result in mortgaging the future...
Did it stop the Chiefs from getting Mahomes?
On Beckham. Was told Giants were VERY upset he didn't play at end of year. Also ESPN interview wasn't something that pleased him.
3. Admittedly. I'm in the minority, and still think Eli can play, but bottom line is that like Fromm and Th a as better prospects then this year's draft.
Build a solid roster built around running the ball, stopping the run, and rushing the passer and the rest (QB) will work itself out.
It really is that simple.
If it is that simple why did we sign Beckham to a massive contract? He doesn’t fit within the above parameters.
Yes, i'd love one of those QB's but those chances are super low. Building around Barkley is absolutely a smart decision. It allows us to remain flexible enough to go several different directions with personnel as well.
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It's not about tanking for this or planning for that.
Build a solid roster built around running the ball, stopping the run, and rushing the passer and the rest (QB) will work itself out.
It really is that simple.
If it is that simple why did we sign Beckham to a massive contract? He doesn’t fit within the above parameters.
Maybe they felt they didn't have much of a choice at that time? Seems to me all signs point to them instantly regretting it.
Yes, i'd love one of those QB's but those chances are super low. Building around Barkley is absolutely a smart decision. It allows us to remain flexible enough to go several different directions with personnel as well.
I can't think of one dynamic RB that was on a team that won the Super Bowl in the past 10 years lets say.
They all seem to be RB by a committee including the Patriots.
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Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers (all HoFers) have won the Superbowl over the last 20 years? Of those teams how many had really good run games + defense? How many of Brady's titles came before he was even an elite QB where he leaned on the run game and defense?
Yes, i'd love one of those QB's but those chances are super low. Building around Barkley is absolutely a smart decision. It allows us to remain flexible enough to go several different directions with personnel as well.
I can't think of one dynamic RB that was on a team that won the Super Bowl in the past 10 years lets say.
They all seem to be RB by a committee including the Patriots.
Marshawn Lynch.
What's crazy about that, is that Shurmur is very good at grooming a QB from a young age. He has had a ton of success doing so. We might miss out on that if we hamper him with Eli for his entire coaching career.
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In comment 14300856 UConn4523 said:
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Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers (all HoFers) have won the Superbowl over the last 20 years? Of those teams how many had really good run games + defense? How many of Brady's titles came before he was even an elite QB where he leaned on the run game and defense?
Yes, i'd love one of those QB's but those chances are super low. Building around Barkley is absolutely a smart decision. It allows us to remain flexible enough to go several different directions with personnel as well.
I can't think of one dynamic RB that was on a team that won the Super Bowl in the past 10 years lets say.
They all seem to be RB by a committee including the Patriots.
Marshawn Lynch.
I stand corrected, but he's the outlier not the norm.
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and "take a shot at the 2020 class" are two things that simply don't compute.
With Eli in the last year of his deal, they're now forcing themselves into a corner: either re-sign him past this year, or overpay to move up in the 2020 draft for a QB, which will certainly be a heavy price to pay.
Well, he said they may be trying to stockpile draft picks this year to make a move in 2020. Which would jive with what Gettleman has always said. If you see a guy you covet you move heaven and earth to get him.
The Chiefs moved from what? 27 to 10 to get Mahomes? And the price wasn't even that bad. Let's not act like it's some impossible feat.
Mahomes went for two first rounders and a 3rd rounder. And that for a guy who was thought of as a QB who needed a redshirt year.
The whole league has their eyes on the 2020 QBs and we're more than a year out from it. They're going to be a hot commodity, and it won't be a trade into the 10 spot. It'll likely be top 5, if not higher.
It's never impossible to trade up. It's a matter of what the cost does to your ability to build the team. By going for wins and also eyeing the 2020 QBs, success in 2019 results in pushing up the cost of trading up.
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It's not about tanking for this or planning for that.
Build a solid roster built around running the ball, stopping the run, and rushing the passer and the rest (QB) will work itself out.
It really is that simple.
If it is that simple why did we sign Beckham to a massive contract? He doesn’t fit within the above parameters.
I guess if you go into it thinking you are really looking at his contract as a 2/3 year deal and he's then locked in to trade, you will get back more than they would have last year as they were talking about dealing him.
His trade value last year was literally at it's lowest point. He was coming off a season ending injury. Teams were going to low ball offers (see the Rams, and apparently Patriots). So the Giants, rightly, stood firm and asked for a high price tag.
Based on the deal, it doesn't make sense to trade him in his first 2 years (possibly 3 but you can work around that better). So if you are the Giants, you re-establish his value after 2-3 years, by that time you have your new QB and this is "Saquon's team" and you trade him where you can reasonably expect a first rounder + for him.
I'm sure as JT said the Giants were pissed with his sitting out those last couple of games, particularly if their goal is to re-establish he's healthy to be able to increase his trade value after 2019 or 2020.
That's what you're trying to do, build a roster that can do what they did, IMO. Great defense, great running game.
They also were able to drop a rookie QB right into that mix and win.
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In comment 14300843 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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and "take a shot at the 2020 class" are two things that simply don't compute.
With Eli in the last year of his deal, they're now forcing themselves into a corner: either re-sign him past this year, or overpay to move up in the 2020 draft for a QB, which will certainly be a heavy price to pay.
Well, he said they may be trying to stockpile draft picks this year to make a move in 2020. Which would jive with what Gettleman has always said. If you see a guy you covet you move heaven and earth to get him.
The Chiefs moved from what? 27 to 10 to get Mahomes? And the price wasn't even that bad. Let's not act like it's some impossible feat.
Mahomes went for two first rounders and a 3rd rounder. And that for a guy who was thought of as a QB who needed a redshirt year.
The whole league has their eyes on the 2020 QBs and we're more than a year out from it. They're going to be a hot commodity, and it won't be a trade into the 10 spot. It'll likely be top 5, if not higher.
It's never impossible to trade up. It's a matter of what the cost does to your ability to build the team. By going for wins and also eyeing the 2020 QBs, success in 2019 results in pushing up the cost of trading up.
It's sort of a strawman...
No team with integrity will ever not try to go for wins. No matter what the Giants do or who they do it with, they are going to try to win as many games as they can.
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In comment 14300843 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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and "take a shot at the 2020 class" are two things that simply don't compute.
With Eli in the last year of his deal, they're now forcing themselves into a corner: either re-sign him past this year, or overpay to move up in the 2020 draft for a QB, which will certainly be a heavy price to pay.
Well, he said they may be trying to stockpile draft picks this year to make a move in 2020. Which would jive with what Gettleman has always said. If you see a guy you covet you move heaven and earth to get him.
The Chiefs moved from what? 27 to 10 to get Mahomes? And the price wasn't even that bad. Let's not act like it's some impossible feat.
Mahomes went for two first rounders and a 3rd rounder. And that for a guy who was thought of as a QB who needed a redshirt year.
The whole league has their eyes on the 2020 QBs and we're more than a year out from it. They're going to be a hot commodity, and it won't be a trade into the 10 spot. It'll likely be top 5, if not higher.
It's never impossible to trade up. It's a matter of what the cost does to your ability to build the team. By going for wins and also eyeing the 2020 QBs, success in 2019 results in pushing up the cost of trading up.
Saying he went for "two first rounders" is a little misleading.
They used their first round pick (swapped), and added an additional 1st and 3rd.
As for the rebuild plan, anyone who doesn't see what is going on is denser than Kryptonite.
Who is "gung ho" about him? No one.
Again - why posters continually need to inject gross hyperbole into their points is beyond me.
Not one person said anything about going all in on the guy.
The idea is - we may not have the resources to find 3 new starters in one offseason. If we can rebuild the right side, a stopgap like Halapio will probably suffice for a year. No one is asking the Giants to sign him to a 5 year, big money extension or just hand him the keys for the future based on nothing.
There are like 5 quarters of him playing OC in games that count right now. All of the absolute opinions based on such a small sample size are bizarre.
As for the rebuild plan, anyone who doesn't see what is going on is denser than Kryptonite.
Haha, seeing a lot of old handles popping up recently. Welcome back!
That seems a bit presumptuous, given that he's average at best at this point.
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Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers (all HoFers) have won the Superbowl over the last 20 years? Of those teams how many had really good run games + defense? How many of Brady's titles came before he was even an elite QB where he leaned on the run game and defense?
Yes, i'd love one of those QB's but those chances are super low. Building around Barkley is absolutely a smart decision. It allows us to remain flexible enough to go several different directions with personnel as well.
I can't think of one dynamic RB that was on a team that won the Super Bowl in the past 10 years lets say.
They all seem to be RB by a committee including the Patriots.
I think thats clouded by who's been in the Superbowl, they've been dominated by the top QB's of our era which likely won't happen again when they aren't in the league anymore.
My point is that you can try and land the next Brady or Peyton Manning or you can build around a great running game and be more open minded with your next QB.
If he sees something in Halapio, I'm willing to give it a shot.
I thought last years QB draft class rivaled 1983 and 2004 as far as anticipation/expectation? Wasn't that repeated on here ad nausium?
How many picks were given up to get those guys? How many firsts?
Darnold: 3 2nd rounders
Allen: 2 2nd rounders (and got a pick in return)
Rosen: a 3rd and a 5th.
That's all of the picks given up in trades for that class.
Glad he sees it, because no one else who saw Halapio play last year saw it.
The D obviously needs to be upgraded and yes, if possible, a QB of the future must be drafted. Sitting behind Eli would be invaluable, imv.
Get over this bullshit narrative that the ownership can’t let go of Eli.They let go of another Giants’ icon in Simms, they can part ways with Eli as well. He’s not what he was, we ELI GUYS get that, but we can still contend if the contingencies I cited above are met..
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If he sees something in Halapio, I'm willing to give it a shot.
Glad he sees it, because no one else who saw Halapio play last year saw it.
WHAT are you talking about? He played just 2 games last year. Are you assessing him off of that? Seriously?
Daryl Williams being the top FA target is the biggest no brainer on the planet with the need and DG connection.
I am hearing similar from a friend who works for an NFL agency. Giants are content with keeping him, 49ers want him but are unwilling to part with 2nd pick, want to swap 2 and 6 and give later picks. Giants say negotiations start with the 2nd pick
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If he sees something in Halapio, I'm willing to give it a shot.
Glad he sees it, because no one else who saw Halapio play last year saw it.
He played for like 5 quarters. How much time did you actually spend keying in on him in that span?
It was a tiny sample size. Again, OC is a new position for him. He has not played it in the past. So, all of this certainty that he sucks is literally based on less than 2 games of football.
If that's all you pros need, so be it. I'll default to the guy who actually played the position and coaches football for now.
Who is saying that the Giants are upset that he didn't play at the end of the year?
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If the Giants are upset that OBJ didn't play at last year's end, that says they believe he was faking or milking his injury.
Who is saying that the Giants are upset that he didn't play at the end of the year?
I see the post now, damming if true but given how cautious the Giants have always been with injuries, I find it hard to believe.
He might suck, he might not. Pretty sure no one can know that definitively right now.
Absolutely - I'm fine doing that.
I'm not suggesting Halapio should just be handed anything - just that it IS a position Shurmur played and understands pretty well. So, I'm inclined to believe that he has a good eye for that specific spot on the OL as much as any other. If he really likes the guy and thinks he could work out there, it can't hurt to give it a shot for more than a game and a half and find out.
I would ideally prefer to have alternatives to try if it doesn't work - I think any reasonable plan would involve that.
Because Gettleman never has, in any round, as a GM.
Daryl Williams being the top FA target is the biggest no brainer on the planet with the need and DG connection.
If he was healthy he would be but isn't he coming off a major knee injury and surgery? I think he's definitely someone to pursue no question, but it's not a no brainer for me unless it's certain he's 100% healthy or will be by training camp.
If this team loves the 2020 QB draft class and is willing to go for wins this year because they can always sacrifice multiple draft picks to get back into the top 5 for one of those guys, would you really argue they are following that philosophy? As another poster asked, then why sign OBJ?
I think what you are suggesting is a silly oversimplification of team building.
As far as a team building philosophy, that has been a football philosophy as old as the game itself.
You can win doing those things. Having a QB is the cherry on top.
Not yet, but closer.
I think we can do better @ OC/RG than Halapio/Brown eventually - but those two guys might be able to hold their own as stopgaps. Ideally, both would be reserves - I think that's the point where I'd be comfortable saying the line was "fixed"
As far as a team building philosophy, that has been a football philosophy as old as the game itself.
You can win doing those things. Having a QB is the cherry on top.
I didn't suggest that was not a team building philosophy. I was suggesting that if they loved the 2020 QB class, trading away multiple high draft picks to get a player who doesn't line up with that approach makes no sense.
You don't trade way up in the first round for a cherry on top when you don't yet have the horses to stop the run or rush the passer.
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In comment 14300889 arcarsenal said:
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If he sees something in Halapio, I'm willing to give it a shot.
Glad he sees it, because no one else who saw Halapio play last year saw it.
WHAT are you talking about? He played just 2 games last year. Are you assessing him off of that? Seriously?
Agreed that it's a really limited sample size, and I'm sure that part of the issue was simply the line coming together at the beginning of the season, but to my eyes, the line started playing better after Halapio got hurt. Clearly, that could be a coincidence, and most likely is, but considering the fact that he had never really played OC before, I wondered at the time whether Halapio was handling the line calls properly.
I'm sure he wasn't 100% comfortable right away - but we're going to need a little more than < 150 snaps in games that count to really make any sort of determination. There's just not enough to go by as is.
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by saying a "true franchise QB", which I'm assuming would be in the mold of a Luck or similar.
As far as a team building philosophy, that has been a football philosophy as old as the game itself.
You can win doing those things. Having a QB is the cherry on top.
I didn't suggest that was not a team building philosophy. I was suggesting that if they loved the 2020 QB class, trading away multiple high draft picks to get a player who doesn't line up with that approach makes no sense.
You don't trade way up in the first round for a cherry on top when you don't yet have the horses to stop the run or rush the passer.
And so maybe they won't. I was responding to the poster who said it was counterproductive to try and win next year and also like QB's in the 2020 class.
Basically I said winning doesn't preclude you from getting a QB high, if you are so inclinde, and cited the Chiefs trading up for Mahommes.
We're having two different conversations here.
Eli is a placeholder. Does not stop them from continuing their team building philosophy.
Don’t you hate all the QBs anyway? What did you think would happen if we passed on the 1st round QBs? That we’d move on to Lauletta?
In any event, if we run it back with Eli, this franchise deserves everything that’s coming to it. The Giants will likely eek enough wins out to not be in position for one of those QBs. Then what will we do? If this comes to fruition, this franchise is the definition of garbage in, garbage out.
I am very high on Haskins and Murray. If we pass on them, the reason should not be to get more support for Eli; it should be because we did not like them. Eli is 38, and we need an actual succession plan.
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Not my preference but it's consistent with their approach. It's overly optimistic and procrastinating the inevitable but we'll see if it comes to fruition and if it works it. I hope it does.
Daryl Williams being the top FA target is the biggest no brainer on the planet with the need and DG connection.
If he was healthy he would be but isn't he coming off a major knee injury and surgery? I think he's definitely someone to pursue no question, but it's not a no brainer for me unless it's certain he's 100% healthy or will be by training camp.
Of course but the Giants won't know for sure until they get him in for a visit and checked out by their medical staff. We're talking about him as the top FA target not signing, which is up to him as well (see Norwell).
Define "all in with Eli". Assuming that they like the 202 QB better and are willing to sacrifice more to get one or, simply, that they don't think a QB in 2019 is worth the #6 pick, what, in your opinion, would be the move that tells you they are all in on Eli versus just moving on to next season?
What, specifically, would you do differently (with the stipulation that your QB comes in the 202 draft)?
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Only to finish (most likely) third and out of the playoffs. Then we trade Beckham? Great plan.
Don’t you hate all the QBs anyway? What did you think would happen if we passed on the 1st round QBs? That we’d move on to Lauletta?
In any event, if we run it back with Eli, this franchise deserves everything that’s coming to it. The Giants will likely eek enough wins out to not be in position for one of those QBs. Then what will we do? If this comes to fruition, this franchise is the definition of garbage in, garbage out.
I am very high on Haskins and Murray. If we pass on them, the reason should not be to get more support for Eli; it should be because we did not like them. Eli is 38, and we need an actual succession plan.
If they were "all in on Eli" and were actually correct and we made a playoff run, is that good or bad? Because if they are wrong and we don't make the playoffs, then there are 4 QBs as good and probably 3 that are better than this year's crop. and our draft position (out of the playoffs) is not going to be exorbitantly low, so to get one of the 4, also considering the number of teams recently set at QB, that we couldn't move up to get one.
He looked awful in preseason too. I was stunned when they named him the starter and couldn't believe they canned Jones in the process. Not that Jones was any great shakes, but he definitely looked better than Halapio.
Just not sure what they've seen in this guy to be so sold on him.
That’s great. Fromm is my hope for 2020. Glad they agree.
There's another thread about Russel Wilson, grab him and you can keep Beckham.
I think re-signing Brown makes sense, as long as there is competition for the spot.
I'm not sold on Halapio. They will draft a center who could win the job.
They can and should try to do better than fucking Halapio.
That offer is what Gettleman was referring to when he talked about someone wanting his pick for a bag of donuts, a pretzel, and a hot dog.
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In comment 14300894 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 14300889 arcarsenal said:
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If he sees something in Halapio, I'm willing to give it a shot.
Glad he sees it, because no one else who saw Halapio play last year saw it.
WHAT are you talking about? He played just 2 games last year. Are you assessing him off of that? Seriously?
Agreed that it's a really limited sample size, and I'm sure that part of the issue was simply the line coming together at the beginning of the season, but to my eyes, the line started playing better after Halapio got hurt. Clearly, that could be a coincidence, and most likely is, but considering the fact that he had never really played OC before, I wondered at the time whether Halapio was handling the line calls properly.
I hear ya. Time will tell, but Solder played much better as the season wore on and Brown was added later on, albeit he had his ups and downs
It would still be the worst starting OL in the division by a significant margin.
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is what the oline ends up being, (solder Hernandez halapio Brown Williams) …. would people consider it "fixed" finally?
It would still be the worst starting OL in the division by a significant margin.
More hyperbole...
A BBI staple!
As for Fromm I am a huge fan. He is my favorite QB in next years draft and out of all the QB's I think he checks off all the boxes. The issue is that the Giants will need to land the #1 or #2 overall pick in order to draft him. If they don't take a QB in round 1 I would like to see the Giants come away with Tyree Jackson on day two. Taking Jackson wouldn't prevent the Giants from taking a QB in 2020 if Jackson hasn't made enough progress.
Why does it have to be some secret conspiracy?
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Only to finish (most likely) third and out of the playoffs. Then we trade Beckham? Great plan.
Don’t you hate all the QBs anyway? What did you think would happen if we passed on the 1st round QBs? That we’d move on to Lauletta?
In any event, if we run it back with Eli, this franchise deserves everything that’s coming to it. The Giants will likely eek enough wins out to not be in position for one of those QBs. Then what will we do? If this comes to fruition, this franchise is the definition of garbage in, garbage out.
I am very high on Haskins and Murray. If we pass on them, the reason should not be to get more support for Eli; it should be because we did not like them. Eli is 38, and we need an actual succession plan.
I mean great plan as in I like it. Pass on every QB this year and target 2020. Trading Beckham then makes sense because I can easily see him being disgruntled while a rookie qb takes his lumps.
No. Definitely not. The Giants need to draft an OC/OG high as well. And, maybe another Tackle to work with.
If they love a QB next year, would much rather they solidify the Oline now and strengthen the defense before a young QB comes in. Not sure why so many fans don’t understand this and are so hell bent on throwing Eli out.
Halapio and Brown are fringe NFL starters. Below average at that.
I am glad Jamon will be back. JT, did you hear anything on the Landon Collins front?
And people laughed when I compared this team to the Browns, who at least, have a plan on paper.
And people laughed when I compared this team to the Browns, who at least, have a plan on paper.
I laugh because we need to suck for multiple decades to be the Browns. And the Browns plan was to keep picking at the top of the draft until they got one right. Great plan.
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is what the oline ends up being, (solder Hernandez halapio Brown Williams) …. would people consider it "fixed" finally?
Halapio and Brown are fringe NFL starters. Below average at that.
True - but DG is also going to draft more linemen as well, and he did bring us Hernandez; another young lineman like that would make NYG better than below-average. After the past couple years, I'd be happy with average.
Not a WR even close to being worth the #6 pick
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I heard the same about Fromm.
That’s great. Fromm is my hope for 2020. Glad they agree.
Mine as well. Fromm is so advanced for his age and he just seems like the exact type of QB the Giants FO covets.
[quote] In comment 14300771 St. Jimmy said:
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competing. That philosophy has worked wonders for the last 6 or 7 years.
The problem with this is you are trying to combine this regime with the previous regime.
The two must be separated. The new regime turned over 66% of the roster. 2/3 of the roster was replaced in a single offseason. That's not "a few tweaks". [/quote I agree that the two regimes need to be separated. But the message has been the same for a while just like the results. Now we see last years talk about competing as window dressing. It feels the same now.
I don't know that they are any closer to competing next year than they were at this time last year. Too much needs to be done. The pass rush is non-existent. That is going to take time to fix. That alone is probably too much to compete next year 8lin any meaningful way and the offense has problems too.
This is just a report. I am sure when the Giants start talking the message will be the same about competing. I am sick about hearing how they are going to compete.
Hitching the wagon how, specifically...assuming that the plan is to go for the elite QB, not available until 2020? Or any scenario that doesn't include picking Haskins and starting him from day 1.
I don’t buy the Odell comment. Giants knee before they resigned him a new QB would be in the fold soon. His personality hasn’t changed.
The D obviously needs to be upgraded and yes, if possible, a QB of the future must be drafted. Sitting behind Eli would be invaluable, imv.
Get over this bullshit narrative that the ownership can’t let go of Eli.They let go of another Giants’ icon in Simms, they can part ways with Eli as well. He’s not what he was, we ELI GUYS get that, but we can still contend if the contingencies I cited above are met..
Eli and Simms are no comparison when it comes to franchise loyalty. Eli has the Manning Mafia and all that comes along with it. The guy freaked when he was told he wasn’t going to play an entire game and the ownership caved and fired the coach. Similarly, I don’t see Eli as a guy that is going to be great at grooming his replacement. It’s not his DNA. He’s a starting QB and that’s it. He’ll quit when his time is up.
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god help us all....what a clown show.
I don’t buy the Odell comment. Giants knee before they resigned him a new QB would be in the fold soon. His personality hasn’t changed.
Yeah Im not sure about it either but apparently its structured like a 3 year deal in terms of lower cap hit. I wouldnt be surprised either way.
This was taken one step further when the CMB radio show today was talking about the Beckham/Jay Glazer stuff and apparently Glazer clarified that he was just reading the tea leaves. Most notably that Shurmur had to convince Giants brass that he could work with him and keeping him around was a good idea.
Yikes.
Riding it out with Eli and focusing on 20 for a QB is the prudent move.
The speculation with Beckham is essentially a hedge by the organization. They own his rights. Either he buys in and plays to the contract or they move him for assets next year. Don’t see anything unreasonable with that approach.
Brown and Williams will solidify the OL. That would be the best group since they won a SB, new center or not.
These moves make them competitive now with an eye to the future. I don’t see anything outlandish with this approach.
Look, get RT D. Williams in UFA; get an upgrade at OG over Brown if possible (2nd round pick, perhaps?); and, maybe upgrade WR Latimer with a UFA; well, you might have an offense that can move the ball consistently. Eli has the smarts and enough arm, he just lacks the legs to get it done against better defenses. That means our offense is limited to a degree.
I do believe Shurmur will create an offense geared towards Eli's strengths. Similar to the second half of last year. I am also really hoping QB Lauletta has a "lightbulb moment" this off-season and works his ass off. He needs to be the #2 QB based on developmental progress not some sick numbers game where we can't get Tanny 2.0 signed.
What's incredibly disappointing is in a well ran business at this juncture only a few people are privy to personnel strategy.
If there's a weak link, that chatter gets out to those who benefit from having it.
So in a presumptive small circle, there's a real idiot. Or if unfortunately there's a big circle, the person in charge of letting that happen is a real idiot.
Either way, way to go Giants.
I dont think Eli should be brought back, but I'm not going to go nuts if he is brought back. But bringing him back and having the belief that they can actually win this year would be just as dumb as it was last year.
Why does anyone believe things are going to be different for the 2019 Giants? Saquon was great last year, sure he could be better, but I think everyone, giants front office included, would sign for what he did last year.
Where is the improvement going to come from that will suddenly make this team go from sucking total shit to being a team who can be a playoff team? The defense has holes everywhere.
I would love to be wrong, but I don't see any path to contending for the 2019 Giants. I'm fine with that, as long as it's not a season where the Giants front office actually believes going into the season that they could contend and makes moves in the offseason that show they believe that.
Every single move this off-season needs to be with an eye towards the future, not 2019.
Committing to Eli and thinking they can win in 2019 and waiting a year to trade Beckham wouldn't be surprising considering just about every move ownership and front office has made in last few years has been the wrong one.
The cards fell right for 1 year, but it really accomplished nothing.
What the Giants need is a systematic build-up of talent. Not a repeat of a hurry up and get to contention plan.
The fundamentals and the depth on the team are broken. The team needs talent all over, not a patch job, and call it a day.
It's funny how some want Gettleman to do exactly what fucked Reese's career here.
The cards fell right for 1 year, but it really accomplished nothing.
What the Giants need is a systematic build-up of talent. Not a repeat of a hurry up and get to contention plan.
The fundamentals and the depth on the team are broken. The team needs talent all over, not a patch job, and call it a day.
It's funny how some want Gettleman to do exactly what fucked Reese's career here.
The league is about offense now and if a team can both RUN and PASS well than you have a shot every game.
This defense is missing a lot of pieces: LB's, FS and CB. You have to hope we draft a rookie edge rusher #1 (unless we go QB, always a possibility) who contributes game 1; DT McIntosh really comes on and is healthy; and, CB Beal is the real deal.
The key to our defense is having a solid, rotating DL and enough at LB to pressure QB's. I think we end up holding onto Vernon IF in fact we believe with some tweeks we can have a playoff team.
Now, if injuries hit us harder in 2019 than 2018, well, we could be in for a very long, hard year. Eli's last year at that.
Believing so ignores how bad the giants offense has been for more than a few years now.
Eli's not the only reason this team has sucked shit for a while now, but he's certainly one of the reasons. Yet the Giants year after year continue believing that he's suddenly going to find the fountain of youth. They cherry pick plays to show that he can still be an effective player.
I bet you could put Brett Favre out there right now and he would make some plays over the course of 16 games that looked like his old self.
When does it end? When Eli's 50? 60? There's nothing wrong with not being good enough at this point. Eli owes the giants nothing. He's one of the best players in franchise history and won 2 Super Bowls. I'll be forever grateful for that.
But its just time. I wouldn't care if they were just going to keep him around to mentor a young guy, but year after year the Giants keep having zero plan at QB. And they continue to suck.
They need to take the player at #6 that can help them most in the future. 2019 should not be the goal. Because even if every single bounce went their way and everything went perfect for the Giants in 2019, they still have zero chance to win a title. None.
Pat Shurmur and Dave Gettleman have done nothing in their careers to earn the benefit of the doubt. Shurmur is a loser and Gettleman has already been fired elsewhere, and if he didnt previously work for Giants he would never have been hired again elsewhere as a GM. I'm sure age would have played a role in that, I don't think he has a horrible resume, but he also doesn't have anything on there that should give him the benefit of the doubt.
John Mara scares me more than the GM does, though. The way everything has been handled by him going back 4-5 years now has been wrong. Firing Coughlin but keeping Reese being right at the top. Both needed to go and everything has turned to shit since.
I just want to see an actual path to contention for the Giants. I'm not sure theres a team in the league that has less hope for the future than the Giants. That can change quickly, sure, but what team would you say is in worse shape going forward? The Giants are definitely in that conversation.
Or, try and keep up here, much of this is complete bullshit or some of it is sort of blurred between real and make believe. I know, pretty heavy to process but it’s a theory.
Keep on decapitating everything giants based on some fun gossip.
Drama is only a factor when a team sucks. And there’s no direct correlation between the two. NONE. There is no proof that Drama or diva or “asshole” like behavior from a star player toxifies a team or hinders a team from winning. There’s absolutely no proof. The only proof out there is that teams can in fact win with some of the biggest assholes in world history controlling the locker room. This is just a fact. It’s all made up in some of your heads. And the minute the bat signal goes up some of you fly into your made up narrative.
Some of the biggest asshole WRs ever won dozens and dozens of games and won postseason games. They won Super Bowls. You know what wins and loses in the nfl? Coaching and talent. 99% of All the other shit is fucking soap opera bullshit. Cmon already.
Or, try and keep up here, much of this is complete bullshit or some of it is sort of blurred between real and make believe. I know, pretty heavy to process but it’s a theory.
Keep on decapitating everything giants based on some fun gossip.
If they had traded him after 2016 like I originally suggested they would have pulled in a haul. But that would have upset the fanboys in the throwbacks that follow him on Instagram. That's the kind of thinking that is influencing key decisions, and that's why this team has been a laughingstock.
Talking about McIntosh and Beal (real deal Beal as some call him) as if they have shown even a fraction of the talent we need to field a competitive defense shows almost a concerning level of blind optimism.
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Eli Sentimentality Tour continues another US leg...
As I expected, this incredibly incompetent front office is falling for the Fool's Gold that was the second half of the season.
This doesn't make sense to me. Nor does GoTerps, "it's all about Eli". Or any of the other "win now" complaints.
Win now would likely mean getting a plethora of old, established FA vets. Don't see that happening. Listed here is one FA (plus Brown). All young and both necessities (wouldn't you agree that having a capable OLine is a necessity?) for ELi but also for the future?
Entering the draft is not a "win now" or Eli-driven thing. They're pretty much required to enter the draft. And, having done so, unless you're Minnesota or whoever it was, you're required to pick a player. I can't say for sure, but my guess is that they will pick players who fit both current gaps and future growth.
You yourself said that you wouldn't waste a #6 on a QB in this draft. Well, there is no viable substitute for Eli this year and there would not be even if they went all in for a QB at #6. So, Eli's presence says nothing whatsoever about win now or build for the future. Moving down to move up next year is not a win it for ELi strategy or one that says they have no succession plan.
The only alternative to what they're doing wrt to the win in 2019 versus win post-ELi would be to do the '76'er "process" thing and totally tank for number one in 2020 by cutting Eli and having no QB at all. Which they could easily do with Lauletta. And, I don't see anyone that would accept a total tank job.
This carping about Eli is dumb because he is actually pretty irrelevant to any of the steps outlined above. His presence doesn't force them to do anything and it doesn't prevent them from doing any thing. He's simply the designated placeholder at QB because he's really the only option that makes sense in the overall scheme for the future (which likely is Fromm or Tua).
TY Bill, I've been saying this about the 2020 QBs and that Eli is irrelevant for months, but when I do I get jumped on...
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Eli Sentimentality Tour continues another US leg...
As I expected, this incredibly incompetent front office is falling for the Fool's Gold that was the second half of the season.
This doesn't make sense to me. Nor does GoTerps, "it's all about Eli". Or any of the other "win now" complaints.
Win now would likely mean getting a plethora of old, established FA vets. Don't see that happening. Listed here is one FA (plus Brown). All young and both necessities (wouldn't you agree that having a capable OLine is a necessity?) for ELi but also for the future?
Entering the draft is not a "win now" or Eli-driven thing. They're pretty much required to enter the draft. And, having done so, unless you're Minnesota or whoever it was, you're required to pick a player. I can't say for sure, but my guess is that they will pick players who fit both current gaps and future growth.
You yourself said that you wouldn't waste a #6 on a QB in this draft. Well, there is no viable substitute for Eli this year and there would not be even if they went all in for a QB at #6. So, Eli's presence says nothing whatsoever about win now or build for the future. Moving down to move up next year is not a win it for ELi strategy or one that says they have no succession plan.
The only alternative to what they're doing wrt to the win in 2019 versus win post-ELi would be to do the '76'er "process" thing and totally tank for number one in 2020 by cutting Eli and having no QB at all. Which they could easily do with Lauletta. And, I don't see anyone that would accept a total tank job.
This carping about Eli is dumb because he is actually pretty irrelevant to any of the steps outlined above. His presence doesn't force them to do anything and it doesn't prevent them from doing any thing. He's simply the designated placeholder at QB because he's really the only option that makes sense in the overall scheme for the future (which likely is Fromm or Tua).
TY Bill, I've been saying Eli is irrelevant for months, but when I do I get jumped on...
2018: 5-11 (1-7 start)
2017: 3-13
2016: 11-5 (every bounce went their way, did not score 30 points)
2015: 6-10 (1-6 finish)
2014: 6-10 (3-9 start)
2013: 7-9 (0-6 start)
How is patchwork still the plan here?
I don't think patchwork means what you think it means.
Because you are correct, the ingredients to winning in the NFL have not changed, but we need to get much stronger in the trenches.
That's up for debate. Right or wrong Gettleman created many of those holes by cutting or trading players under contract. He chose to purge the roster. And he chose to fill those many holes with a number of cast-off or never-were players on one year deals.
He could have more slowly turned the roster over and seen if the incumbent players could improve in a new system.
I'm not predicting the outcome would have been different, just that he made the choice for drastic churn.
My opinion is he added 5-7 core players, and there are a good 10 more needed before this is a competitive team.
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Because they can eventually trade him if needed and recoup some of the value. They’d rather not lose an all pro wr for NOTHING.
Or, try and keep up here, much of this is complete bullshit or some of it is sort of blurred between real and make believe. I know, pretty heavy to process but it’s a theory.
Keep on decapitating everything giants based on some fun gossip.
If they had traded him after 2016 like I originally suggested they would have pulled in a haul. But that would have upset the fanboys in the throwbacks that follow him on Instagram. That's the kind of thinking that is influencing key decisions, and that's why this team has been a laughingstock.
Right. The reason the giants stink is because they didn’t trade their best offensive player coming off a playoff season.
It was all so easy.
Never mind the bad HC. The bad drafts. The multitude of unlucky bounces and injuries. Beckham. Beckham Beckham Beckham and more Beckham. Ahhh, the Ewing theory. Never gets old.
Boring.
amen to that..
Until Eli reties at the end of the season with a sub 500 record. It's coming.
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....but my goodness, how much longer will this team be content with subpar quarterback play and no succession plan in place?
Until Eli reties at the end of the season with a sub 500 record. It's coming.
You didn't hear? The Giants are going to fix the offensive line, and everything is going to be aces.
What would really be comical is passing on this years QBs from the 6 hole with 1,2,3 set at QB, moving down to add for 2020 posturing, and then have next years 1,2,3 picks with QB hungry teams with no chance of moving in. I guess more of a nightmare.
Even having only a chance for the 3rd 2020 QB would be utter failure. My guess is they don't risk it and make a move this draft.
the answer to your question is one that would interest me...
And people laughed when I compared this team to the Browns, who at least, have a plan on paper.
if Gettleman took a WR with the #6 pick he would have to enter the witness protection program.....
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DL is the #6 pick ... /w WR being the dark horse.
Not a WR even close to being worth the #6 pick
[quote] In comment 14300771 St. Jimmy said:
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competing. That philosophy has worked wonders for the last 6 or 7 years.
The problem with this is you are trying to combine this regime with the previous regime.
The two must be separated. The new regime turned over 66% of the roster. 2/3 of the roster was replaced in a single offseason. That's not "a few tweaks". [/quote I agree that the two regimes need to be separated. But the message has been the same for a while just like the results. Now we see last years talk about competing as window dressing. It feels the same now.
I don't know that they are any closer to competing next year than they were at this time last year. Too much needs to be done. The pass rush is non-existent. That is going to take time to fix. That alone is probably too much to compete next year 8lin any meaningful way and the offense has problems too.
This is just a report. I am sure when the Giants start talking the message will be the same about competing. I am sick about hearing how they are going to compete.
this team is not going to be competitive with a 39 year old QB who is deep decline..
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In comment 14300818 bw in dc said:
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Eli Sentimentality Tour continues another US leg...
As I expected, this incredibly incompetent front office is falling for the Fool's Gold that was the second half of the season.
This doesn't make sense to me. Nor does GoTerps, "it's all about Eli". Or any of the other "win now" complaints.
Win now would likely mean getting a plethora of old, established FA vets. Don't see that happening. Listed here is one FA (plus Brown). All young and both necessities (wouldn't you agree that having a capable OLine is a necessity?) for ELi but also for the future?
Entering the draft is not a "win now" or Eli-driven thing. They're pretty much required to enter the draft. And, having done so, unless you're Minnesota or whoever it was, you're required to pick a player. I can't say for sure, but my guess is that they will pick players who fit both current gaps and future growth.
You yourself said that you wouldn't waste a #6 on a QB in this draft. Well, there is no viable substitute for Eli this year and there would not be even if they went all in for a QB at #6. So, Eli's presence says nothing whatsoever about win now or build for the future. Moving down to move up next year is not a win it for ELi strategy or one that says they have no succession plan.
The only alternative to what they're doing wrt to the win in 2019 versus win post-ELi would be to do the '76'er "process" thing and totally tank for number one in 2020 by cutting Eli and having no QB at all. Which they could easily do with Lauletta. And, I don't see anyone that would accept a total tank job.
This carping about Eli is dumb because he is actually pretty irrelevant to any of the steps outlined above. His presence doesn't force them to do anything and it doesn't prevent them from doing any thing. He's simply the designated placeholder at QB because he's really the only option that makes sense in the overall scheme for the future (which likely is Fromm or Tua).
TY Bill, I've been saying this about the 2020 QBs and that Eli is irrelevant for months, but when I do I get jumped on...
Eli is only the Giants QB at this time because he knows the playbook...
Believing so ignores how bad the giants offense has been for more than a few years now.
Eli's not the only reason this team has sucked shit for a while now, but he's certainly one of the reasons. Yet the Giants year after year continue believing that he's suddenly going to find the fountain of youth. They cherry pick plays to show that he can still be an effective player.
I bet you could put Brett Favre out there right now and he would make some plays over the course of 16 games that looked like his old self.
When does it end? When Eli's 50? 60? There's nothing wrong with not being good enough at this point. Eli owes the giants nothing. He's one of the best players in franchise history and won 2 Super Bowls. I'll be forever grateful for that.
But its just time. I wouldn't care if they were just going to keep him around to mentor a young guy, but year after year the Giants keep having zero plan at QB. And they continue to suck.
They need to take the player at #6 that can help them most in the future. 2019 should not be the goal. Because even if every single bounce went their way and everything went perfect for the Giants in 2019, they still have zero chance to win a title. None.
Pat Shurmur and Dave Gettleman have done nothing in their careers to earn the benefit of the doubt. Shurmur is a loser and Gettleman has already been fired elsewhere, and if he didnt previously work for Giants he would never have been hired again elsewhere as a GM. I'm sure age would have played a role in that, I don't think he has a horrible resume, but he also doesn't have anything on there that should give him the benefit of the doubt.
John Mara scares me more than the GM does, though. The way everything has been handled by him going back 4-5 years now has been wrong. Firing Coughlin but keeping Reese being right at the top. Both needed to go and everything has turned to shit since.
I just want to see an actual path to contention for the Giants. I'm not sure theres a team in the league that has less hope for the future than the Giants. That can change quickly, sure, but what team would you say is in worse shape going forward? The Giants are definitely in that conversation.
John Mara seems to be no more than a buffoon as an owner ...
If he sees something in Halapio, I'm willing to give it a shot.
But why should Shurmur be an authority we'd use to validate a position? Thus far he is certainly no great shakes.
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SGmen -- by the shear number of things you've just described that need to happen, I think you are kinda making my point.
There is both skill and luck involved: bottom line is if the youth develops we have a shot.
Well then we are fucked, because developing youth has not exactly been a Giants forte.