The Giants organization seems to be stuck in a seesaw of excellence and misery, as other teams also are, except that it takes The Giants far too long to recover from their downfalls. Bad drafting and bad head coach choices after very good coaches seem to plague them. Jim Lee Howell* following Stout Steve Owen, Nameless following Bill Parcels and McAdoo following Tom Coughlin.
Revolving doors don't usually result in acquiring good head coaches and good quarterbacks.
*Jim Lee retired after three seasons. They could have had Vince Lombardi.
It's good to see a well thought out defense of Eli . Â
Too many BBIers attack Eli, disregarding the facts of his record and the lousy teams around him. I guess many of them are trying to impress the rest of us with their 'superior analytical abilities' or their 'superior football
knowledge' or their 'ability to think outside the box'.
Give it up guys. Eli will be around for 2019 and 2020
regardless of your criticisms.
RE: It's good to see a well thought out defense of Eli . Â
Too many BBIers attack Eli, disregarding the facts of his record and the lousy teams around him. I guess many of them are trying to impress the rest of us with their 'superior analytical abilities' or their 'superior football
knowledge' or their 'ability to think outside the box'.
Give it up guys. Eli will be around for 2019 and 2020
regardless of your criticisms.
I don't know if it is a "defense" or "excuse" but it is a rational explanation. We'll never know. My personal opinion is the franchise has botched the last seven years and Eli has suffered because of it. He's no innocent, but I've seen too many examples of good QBs getting "ruined" due to shoddy OL play.
Eli has always needed a pocket...as he is a pocket passer Â
The one undeniable fact is he is 38 yrs old. The only reason he should be lining up this year is to be a placeholder for a young guy. If they aren’t going QB then they really need to go in another direction.
He is a shell of the player he was during those SB runs. I'm not a hater, I think he had a wonderful career. I hate to see him taking a beating and playing so inept. We need to move on. If not now, when?
The one undeniable fact is he is 38 yrs old. The only reason he should be lining up this year is to be a placeholder for a young guy. If they aren’t going QB then they really need to go in another direction.
How old are Brady, Brees, Rothlisberger and Rivers
would go a long way from the pressure on Eli Manning to perform at a level this year.
Really hope they draft something. Its been a long time since they drafted a decent QB. heck some teams draft them in all rounds, trade them, use them etc...while having having franchise Qb's in place already.
Though this team can't even draft a good pass rusher anymore. Once their MO.
Eric, very well thought out analysis of Eli’s career Â
Do you see Eli as a future Hall of Famer? I’m fairly certain he gets in at some point, but it could be quite a while. It’s the fact that he’s really only had two outstanding years out of fifteen that makes me wonder. He’s also never received the MVP Award, other then for his two Super Bowls. Great accomplishments, but will that be enough to sway voters?!
And lastly, do you think the Giants have to draft Eli’s successor this year?
RE: Eric, very well thought out analysis of Eli’s career Â
Do you see Eli as a future Hall of Famer? I’m fairly certain he gets in at some point, but it could be quite a while. It’s the fact that he’s really only had two outstanding years out of fifteen that makes me wonder. He’s also never received the MVP Award, other then for his two Super Bowls. Great accomplishments, but will that be enough to sway voters?!
And lastly, do you think the Giants have to draft Eli’s successor this year?
Tough questions.
I think he is a HOF given his longevity, compiled career stats, and two Super Bowl MVPs. But you will have a lot of haters campaigning against him.
I don't think they "have" to draft his successor this year. They could do it a year from now and sink or swim with the rookie. They also may really like Lauletta. Remains to be seen.
RE: RE: Eric, very well thought out analysis of Eli’s career Â
Do you see Eli as a future Hall of Famer? I’m fairly certain he gets in at some point, but it could be quite a while. It’s the fact that he’s really only had two outstanding years out of fifteen that makes me wonder. He’s also never received the MVP Award, other then for his two Super Bowls. Great accomplishments, but will that be enough to sway voters?!
And lastly, do you think the Giants have to draft Eli’s successor this year?
Tough questions.
I think he is a HOF given his longevity, compiled career stats, and two Super Bowl MVPs. But you will have a lot of haters campaigning against him.
I don't think they "have" to draft his successor this year. They could do it a year from now and sink or swim with the rookie. They also may really like Lauletta. Remains to be seen.
Yea, I also think Lauletta might be given another shot this year, if they don’t draft a QB. Thanks
What it does mean is that unless Eli has a miracle season where he wins it all in his final year, we're "wasting" another season with Eli... i.e., wasting another Beckham and Saquon season.
I completely agree with what you said about the Giants ruining the second half of Eli's career. Abysmal management from ownership on down that continues as we speak.
I completely agree with what you said about the Giants ruining the second half of Eli's career. Abysmal management from ownership on down that continues as we speak.
Eric & Go Terps, I too agree. I do want to see Lauletta in camp this year. Maybe with a year of weight-lifting and some maturing he'll show better??? I wish he had played the 2nd half of our last two games at least just so he got a taste of true NFL speed and we'd have a better handle on him but alas it was not meant to be.
My thoughts on Eli are as follows: 1. Lets get a RT via UFA, an clear upgrade over Wheeler. 2. Lets get a rookie OG round #2 (or RT...) that flourishes out of the gates better than most. 3. Lets hope OC J. Hilapio is healthy and truly does have upside. Injuries...well...ya never do know do you?
If the OL improves; if we get a blocking TE upgrade (or Stetson comes on); and, if WR Latimer comes back and blocks like a demon (yeah, a blocking WR who knocks down the last defender that can get Saquon) well maybe this offense will step up.
There are only so many holes to fill. Eli has the head, the heart, just not the legs anymore. If he gets better production and our key playmakers stay healthy this offense can score.
And if we don't upgrade the OL, TE than Eli will finish 6 - 10 or worse, wasting a year.
Not getting a good look at Lauletta last year was another failure of management. The guy is basically a lottery ticket...if he pans out, fantastic. If playing on a poor team destroys him, then it only cost a 4th rounder. Starting Eli for any game after the 1-7 start was a waste of that opportunity.
I think this team has 4-12 to 6-10 written all over it again. Poor gameday coaching, shellshocked QB...not a good mix.
Ruined the second half of Eli’s career? A bit dramatic Â
and it’s not like the defense and special teams were all given special attention to the detriment of the offense.
The fact is the Giants won a few surprising Super Bowls and Eli was a major major factor in doing so. But during that period and subsequent the team drafted like shit, entered into bad free agent deals and injuries ran rampant. Reese & Co. made many bad decisions and some of it was also just unfortunate bad luck.
But hey...film at 11. “Flawed super bowl champ falls on tough times and exposes its flaws.” That’s all that happened.
And during it all, Eli has been paid handsomely. In fact, one can say he was paid a great deal because of what he showed during those epic runs and that we expected to see that same level again.
But we really haven’t seen it, have we. And maybe Eli should have been expected to overcome some of those flaws and deliver some more playoffs, and maybe that was just too much to expect.
In the end, he has 2 rings, a lot of money and got to play exactly where he wanted his whole career. A career that really at this stage of his career and state of the franchise is over.
Not getting a good look at Lauletta last year was another failure of management. The guy is basically a lottery ticket...if he pans out, fantastic. If playing on a poor team destroys him, then it only cost a 4th rounder. Starting Eli for any game after the 1-7 start was a waste of that opportunity.
I think this team has 4-12 to 6-10 written all over it again. Poor gameday coaching, shellshocked QB...not a good mix.
If the offense were truly upgraded this draft and via UFA, and Eli has time, we could move the ball consistently. But there are 3 holes on the OL; there is a hole at WR #2 even if Latimer is re-signed (he is a stop gap, no separation speed to beat even average defenders).
Not starting Lauletta for the 2nd halves of the last few games at least was a big mistake. However, the coaches know what they have in him. I doubt he was ready last year. Rumors had Lauletta as someone who lacks the true work ethic to get to the next level. We shall see.
What it does mean is that unless Eli has a miracle season where he wins it all in his final year, we're "wasting" another season with Eli... i.e., wasting another Beckham and Saquon season.
I agree Eric.....I’m not sure Giants fans can endure another losing season with Eli at the helm! I could probably accept a losing season with a rookie behind Center if he was thought of as a Franchise guy and showed some development. In a strange way, I could get excited about that.
article. The only viable QB is an emotionally and physically exhausted 38 year old who has taken a beating behind subpar offensive lines for years. The Giants never really protected Eli.
article. The only viable QB is an emotionally and physically exhausted 38 year old who has taken a beating behind subpar offensive lines for years. The Giants never really protected Eli.
I know comparisons are specious, but consider these QBs.
Hasselbeck, 40 in 2015
Len Dawson, 40 in 1975
Connerly, 40 in 1961
Tom Brady, 41 in 2018
Favre, 41 in 2010
Brunell, 41 in 2011
Warren Moon 44 in 2000
All of whom played very well at age 38 and 39.
I find myself hoping our youth steps up and our injured return 100% Â
We really need our young guys to develop and step up & our injured to come back strong. That is obvious and goes without saying. I'm just not sure how much upside guys like RT Wheeler; OC Hilapio; TE Stetson (sp?); WR Coleman (always hurt, maybe he finds a home finally?); DT McIntosh; CB Beal, etc.
I mean, what if Engram finally blossoms into "that guy" who can't be covered by most any safety in the league? I do believe making him a WR could be useful, especially in the redzone.
when he says that the GIANTS ruined the second half of Eli's career.
Reese and Ross should have been fired in 2012, and every year after that. But it was 2018 before they were actually sent packing. That's SIX effing years of absolutely terrible drafting and team building.
That's why they are in the mess they are in now. It's NOT Eli. It's Mara, Reese, Ross, and to some degree McAdoo.
with your statement that over the years he's become "a bit" more gun shy. I think the beating he's taken these last few years has resulted in him being substantially more gun shy - and understandably so. That's not his fault but it does affect his performance and by extension that of the offense as a whole. That is a shame.
started only 8 games and was one of the worst QBs in the league by both advanced and conventional numbers.
Quote:
Len Dawson, 40 in 1975
45 years ago, and he only threw 140 passes.
Quote:
Connerly, 40 in 1961
55 years ago, only threw 106 passes, and the numbers were...not good.
Quote:
Tom Brady, 41 in 2018
Good example, but comparing Brady to nearly anybody is risky territory
Quote:
Favre, 41 in 2010
Favre's an interesting case. His age 41 season was terrible, but he was absolutely fantastic at age 40 for the Vikings' NFC championship team. However, he was also bad at age 39 for the Jets. Kind of a wild ride at the end of his career and tough to take any lessons.
Quote:
Brunell, 41 in 2011
Brunell barely played, starting at age 38 until the end of his career.
Quote:
Warren Moon 44 in 2000
Good example, although his numbers still declined a bit after his age 39 season
Quote:
All of whom played very well at age 38 and 39.
Dawson, Connerly, and Favre didn't play well at age 39. Hasselbeck and Brunell barely played. That leaves Moon, Brady, and Brees as QBs who have played as above-average starters during their age 39 season (and Brees is a shaky example as he clearly declined as the season went on).
Bottom line: start a QB past age 38 at your own risk.
His gun-slinger mentality – which leads to big plays – also causes him to make some risky throws in tight windows.
Although a few sentences before you stated this:
Quote:
Manning has become a bit more gun-shy in recent years due to shoddy pass protection.
I think the first quote is an accurate reflection of who Eli has been the majority of his career and who he might be one day if given protection, but I'm not sure. Certainly lately he has seemed to me to be much less interested in extending plays and more in self-preservation, and I can understand why. I've seen too many plays where he folds when he sees the pressure coming and the defensive matchups appear unfavorable.
Not necessarily his fault, but far from a gun-slinger's mentality which I think he's lost. I fear he will never recover it either. Is the book on defense with Eli to make sure you provide the pressure and take away his first look or two? I think that's the conventional wisdom among fans anyway.
article. The only viable QB is an emotionally and physically exhausted 38 year old who has taken a beating behind subpar offensive lines for years. The Giants never really protected Eli.
I know comparisons are specious, but consider these QBs.
Hasselbeck, 40 in 2015
Len Dawson, 40 in 1975
Connerly, 40 in 1961
Tom Brady, 41 in 2018
Favre, 41 in 2010
Brunell, 41 in 2011
Warren Moon 44 in 2000
All of whom played very well at age 38 and 39.
Hasselbeck was done as a starter at 36. He didn't hit 20+ touchdown passes since 2007, four years prior.
Mark Brunell was a backup for his last five years. He started 10 games in those years. He was 35 in his final season as starter.
the last seven years of Eli's career is a mantra I have clung to and expressed on BBI since 2013. Personally, I have always felt that Eli is one of those QBs who needs things around him to be in good shape in order for him to excel. I see nothing that makes me feel any different now.
I've looked at a lot of old Giant games on YouTube and while Eli is obviously more nimble many years ago, Eli's forte was always the ability to move within the pocket. That was how he extended plays.
It would be wonderful to see him surrounded by a good offensive line to see if he could do it one more time. I would also note that the last time the Giants were in the playoffs, they did not lose because of Eli. In fact, if anyone did show up that day, it was Eli. He was spot on with his passes but killed by numerous drops by Beckham and others.
Personally, I still have faith in Eli while admitting it is now time to get someone in to learn behind him and then take over in a year or two. Is that person Haskins? I am not sure. My own feeling is I like Daniel Jones a lot better!
The sad thing about the Eli bashing is the morons in the media who have picked it up and used it as a battering ram. Guys like Jordan Raanan, Pat Leonard and Art Stapleton are the worst in constantly bashing this line. We ignore that Reese and Ross depleted this organization so much it will take a while to rebuild that and Eli doesn't have that time. So, yes, ERIC...YOU ARE DEAD RIGHT! THE GIANTS SCREWED THE LAST SEVEN, SOON TO BE EIGHT YEARS OF ELI'S CAREER.
To be honest, we see this in other areas as well. Green Bay has pretty much done the same thing with Rodgers. Or Seattle with Russell Wilson. How many more hits before he is done? There are lots of people to blame here for the current position we are in and, to me, it starts with John Mara. He allowed this situation to happen even though it was obvious there were major issues with this team.
I feel incredibly sad that the team I love has done this to one of their cornerstone players.
I completely agree with what you said about the Giants ruining the second half of Eli's career. Abysmal management from ownership on down that continues as we speak.
Why is he the only QB who's never responsible for making everyone around him better? SMH. I love how the Manning kid is never the problem.
I completely agree with what you said about the Giants ruining the second half of Eli's career. Abysmal management from ownership on down that continues as we speak.
Why is he the only QB who's never responsible for making everyone around him better? SMH. I love how the Manning kid is never the problem.
Fucking Eli not getting his defense to play at an average level for the majority of his career!!!
I completely agree with what you said about the Giants ruining the second half of Eli's career. Abysmal management from ownership on down that continues as we speak.
Why is he the only QB who's never responsible for making everyone around him better? SMH. I love how the Manning kid is never the problem.
Fucking Eli not getting his defense to play at an average level for the majority of his career!!!
So the Defense and the O-line and the receivers dropping passes and coaches not max protecting on ever fucking play is the reason we've so bad the past 7 years? You should follow Eli to his next destination since he's GREAT.
So the Defense and the O-line and the receivers dropping passes and coaches not max protecting on ever fucking play is the reason we've so bad the past 7 years? You should follow Eli to his next destination since he's GREAT.
So the Defense and the O-line and the receivers dropping passes and coaches not max protecting on ever fucking play is the reason we've so bad the past 7 years? You should follow Eli to his next destination since he's GREAT.
ITS ALL ELI'S FAULT!!!!! LOUD NOISES!
Eli's the BEST, He has 10 more years left at a HIGH level; Blah Blah Blah.
So the Defense and the O-line and the receivers dropping passes and coaches not max protecting on ever fucking play is the reason we've so bad the past 7 years? You should follow Eli to his next destination since he's GREAT.
ITS ALL ELI'S FAULT!!!!! LOUD NOISES!
Eli's the BEST, He has 10 more years left at a HIGH level; Blah Blah Blah.
Said no one on this board, ever. But keep looking at porn on your moms computer in between posts.
So the Defense and the O-line and the receivers dropping passes and coaches not max protecting on ever fucking play is the reason we've so bad the past 7 years? You should follow Eli to his next destination since he's GREAT.
ITS ALL ELI'S FAULT!!!!! LOUD NOISES!
Eli's the BEST, He has 10 more years left at a HIGH level; Blah Blah Blah.
Said no one on this board, ever. But keep looking at porn on your moms computer in between posts.
You can't be if if think Eli is apart of that future genius.
I never said he was? I just said I was a fan of his. And right now he is on the team.
So again, your stupidity reigns supreme!!!!
So because of your fandom for Eli you blindly support everything he does regardless of how it impacts the team? You sir are an idiot.
WTF are you babbling about now. First it was Elis fault his teammates arent better, then its I want him to be the long term answer, now its a blindly support him because I root for him?
You are all over the place dude. Get a grip, a life, a girlfriend/boyfriend or something.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Yes I’m a fan of a player Â
You can't be if if think Eli is apart of that future genius.
I never said he was? I just said I was a fan of his. And right now he is on the team.
So again, your stupidity reigns supreme!!!!
So because of your fandom for Eli you blindly support everything he does regardless of how it impacts the team? You sir are an idiot.
WTF are you babbling about now. First it was Elis fault his teammates arent better, then its I want him to be the long term answer, now its a blindly support him because I root for him?
You are all over the place dude. Get a grip, a life, a girlfriend/boyfriend or something.
If you're having hard time following. Get off Eli's NUTS. TEAM first, TEAM last. I'm sure he appreciates your fandom but SHIT, be easy.
when he says that the GIANTS ruined the second half of Eli's career.
Reese and Ross should have been fired in 2012, and every year after that. But it was 2018 before they were actually sent packing. That's SIX effing years of absolutely terrible drafting and team building.
That's why they are in the mess they are in now. It's NOT Eli. It's Mara, Reese, Ross, and to some degree McAdoo.
Just because you change something doesn’t mean it’s upgraded...
You think chad wheeler, Curtis Riley, Evan Pulley, BJ Goodson, Kareem Martin are fuckig upgrades cause they are new? You’re dumber than I thought.
Hey we have sucked since 2014.... I guess OBJ is a loser too right? He’s been a constant as well. Great theory you got going on there!!!
You're fucking clueless. 4 years is a constant compared to 15 years? Stop already. It's clear you enjoy losing as long as we keep dumbface under center. Dumbass.
So the Defense and the O-line and the receivers dropping passes and coaches not max protecting on ever fucking play is the reason we've so bad the past 7 years? You should follow Eli to his next destination since he's GREAT.
ITS ALL ELI'S FAULT!!!!! LOUD NOISES!
Eli's the BEST, He has 10 more years left at a HIGH level; Blah Blah Blah.
What it does mean is that unless Eli has a miracle season where he wins it all in his final year, we're "wasting" another season with Eli... i.e., wasting another Beckham and Saquon season.
+1000.
RE: RE: It's good to see a well thought out defense of Eli . Â
Too many BBIers attack Eli, disregarding the facts of his record and the lousy teams around him. I guess many of them are trying to impress the rest of us with their 'superior analytical abilities' or their 'superior football
knowledge' or their 'ability to think outside the box'.
Give it up guys. Eli will be around for 2019 and 2020
regardless of your criticisms.
I don't know if it is a "defense" or "excuse" but it is a rational explanation. We'll never know. My personal opinion is the franchise has botched the last seven years and Eli has suffered because of it. He's no innocent, but I've seen too many examples of good QBs getting "ruined" due to shoddy OL play.
+1000
I was in Eli’s corner until the last half of 2017 Â
It was clear to me he was beginning to be part of the problem at that point. And while I got some nostalgic joy from seeing him behind center the first plays of 2018, I quickly felt that same sick feeling that he was no longer “Eli” and we were basically looking at a lost year (with him and the shit OL).
Can he still put up average numbers with everything working around him and studs at the skill positions? Sure. But you can say that about most QBs. With an average roster around him I think he is a bottom half or bottom third (20th-ish) QB. At his salary, he’s an albatross and part of the problem.
The worst part is the longer we wait to draft his successor, the more of Barkley and Beckham’s prime we waste. Make no mistake, we have a 4-5-year window, if that, with two of the best position players in football on O (and two good young players in Engram and Shephard). We need to fill the missing pieces on O (QB, RT and G/C) and make our run asap. We have enough talent at the skill positions on O to make a run with an average D (which we can get to in a year or two with some smart acquisitions).
So the Defense and the O-line and the receivers dropping passes and coaches not max protecting on ever fucking play is the reason we've so bad the past 7 years? You should follow Eli to his next destination since he's GREAT.
ITS ALL ELI'S FAULT!!!!! LOUD NOISES!
Eli's the BEST, He has 10 more years left at a HIGH level; Blah Blah Blah.
The story of Eli's shoulda-woulda career could be condensed to this:
Beatty
Pugh
Richburg
Flowers
If these four high-drafted guys had been 8-10 year starters (not Pro Bowlers, just dependable NFL players through their 20's) Eli would have played 15-20 postseason games and had a first-ballot Hall of Fame career.
Revolving doors don't usually result in acquiring good head coaches and good quarterbacks.
*Jim Lee retired after three seasons. They could have had Vince Lombardi.
knowledge' or their 'ability to think outside the box'.
Give it up guys. Eli will be around for 2019 and 2020
regardless of your criticisms.
knowledge' or their 'ability to think outside the box'.
Give it up guys. Eli will be around for 2019 and 2020
regardless of your criticisms.
I don't know if it is a "defense" or "excuse" but it is a rational explanation. We'll never know. My personal opinion is the franchise has botched the last seven years and Eli has suffered because of it. He's no innocent, but I've seen too many examples of good QBs getting "ruined" due to shoddy OL play.
The Giants/Reese definitely screwed him
How old are Brady, Brees, Rothlisberger and Rivers
Really hope they draft something. Its been a long time since they drafted a decent QB. heck some teams draft them in all rounds, trade them, use them etc...while having having franchise Qb's in place already.
Though this team can't even draft a good pass rusher anymore. Once their MO.
Do you see Eli as a future Hall of Famer? I’m fairly certain he gets in at some point, but it could be quite a while. It’s the fact that he’s really only had two outstanding years out of fifteen that makes me wonder. He’s also never received the MVP Award, other then for his two Super Bowls. Great accomplishments, but will that be enough to sway voters?!
And lastly, do you think the Giants have to draft Eli’s successor this year?
Do you see Eli as a future Hall of Famer? I’m fairly certain he gets in at some point, but it could be quite a while. It’s the fact that he’s really only had two outstanding years out of fifteen that makes me wonder. He’s also never received the MVP Award, other then for his two Super Bowls. Great accomplishments, but will that be enough to sway voters?!
And lastly, do you think the Giants have to draft Eli’s successor this year?
Tough questions.
I think he is a HOF given his longevity, compiled career stats, and two Super Bowl MVPs. But you will have a lot of haters campaigning against him.
I don't think they "have" to draft his successor this year. They could do it a year from now and sink or swim with the rookie. They also may really like Lauletta. Remains to be seen.
Quote:
with the Giants.
Do you see Eli as a future Hall of Famer? I’m fairly certain he gets in at some point, but it could be quite a while. It’s the fact that he’s really only had two outstanding years out of fifteen that makes me wonder. He’s also never received the MVP Award, other then for his two Super Bowls. Great accomplishments, but will that be enough to sway voters?!
And lastly, do you think the Giants have to draft Eli’s successor this year?
Tough questions.
I think he is a HOF given his longevity, compiled career stats, and two Super Bowl MVPs. But you will have a lot of haters campaigning against him.
I don't think they "have" to draft his successor this year. They could do it a year from now and sink or swim with the rookie. They also may really like Lauletta. Remains to be seen.
Yea, I also think Lauletta might be given another shot this year, if they don’t draft a QB. Thanks
My thoughts on Eli are as follows: 1. Lets get a RT via UFA, an clear upgrade over Wheeler. 2. Lets get a rookie OG round #2 (or RT...) that flourishes out of the gates better than most. 3. Lets hope OC J. Hilapio is healthy and truly does have upside. Injuries...well...ya never do know do you?
If the OL improves; if we get a blocking TE upgrade (or Stetson comes on); and, if WR Latimer comes back and blocks like a demon (yeah, a blocking WR who knocks down the last defender that can get Saquon) well maybe this offense will step up.
There are only so many holes to fill. Eli has the head, the heart, just not the legs anymore. If he gets better production and our key playmakers stay healthy this offense can score.
And if we don't upgrade the OL, TE than Eli will finish 6 - 10 or worse, wasting a year.
I think this team has 4-12 to 6-10 written all over it again. Poor gameday coaching, shellshocked QB...not a good mix.
The fact is the Giants won a few surprising Super Bowls and Eli was a major major factor in doing so. But during that period and subsequent the team drafted like shit, entered into bad free agent deals and injuries ran rampant. Reese & Co. made many bad decisions and some of it was also just unfortunate bad luck.
But hey...film at 11. “Flawed super bowl champ falls on tough times and exposes its flaws.” That’s all that happened.
And during it all, Eli has been paid handsomely. In fact, one can say he was paid a great deal because of what he showed during those epic runs and that we expected to see that same level again.
But we really haven’t seen it, have we. And maybe Eli should have been expected to overcome some of those flaws and deliver some more playoffs, and maybe that was just too much to expect.
In the end, he has 2 rings, a lot of money and got to play exactly where he wanted his whole career. A career that really at this stage of his career and state of the franchise is over.
Ruined...I don’t think so.
I think this team has 4-12 to 6-10 written all over it again. Poor gameday coaching, shellshocked QB...not a good mix.
Not starting Lauletta for the 2nd halves of the last few games at least was a big mistake. However, the coaches know what they have in him. I doubt he was ready last year. Rumors had Lauletta as someone who lacks the true work ethic to get to the next level. We shall see.
I agree Eric.....I’m not sure Giants fans can endure another losing season with Eli at the helm! I could probably accept a losing season with a rookie behind Center if he was thought of as a Franchise guy and showed some development. In a strange way, I could get excited about that.
I know comparisons are specious, but consider these QBs.
Hasselbeck, 40 in 2015
Len Dawson, 40 in 1975
Connerly, 40 in 1961
Tom Brady, 41 in 2018
Favre, 41 in 2010
Brunell, 41 in 2011
Warren Moon 44 in 2000
All of whom played very well at age 38 and 39.
I mean, what if Engram finally blossoms into "that guy" who can't be covered by most any safety in the league? I do believe making him a WR could be useful, especially in the redzone.
Reese and Ross should have been fired in 2012, and every year after that. But it was 2018 before they were actually sent packing. That's SIX effing years of absolutely terrible drafting and team building.
That's why they are in the mess they are in now. It's NOT Eli. It's Mara, Reese, Ross, and to some degree McAdoo.
Hasselbeck, 40 in 2015
started only 8 games and was one of the worst QBs in the league by both advanced and conventional numbers.
45 years ago, and he only threw 140 passes.
55 years ago, only threw 106 passes, and the numbers were...not good.
Good example, but comparing Brady to nearly anybody is risky territory
Favre's an interesting case. His age 41 season was terrible, but he was absolutely fantastic at age 40 for the Vikings' NFC championship team. However, he was also bad at age 39 for the Jets. Kind of a wild ride at the end of his career and tough to take any lessons.
Brunell barely played, starting at age 38 until the end of his career.
Good example, although his numbers still declined a bit after his age 39 season
Dawson, Connerly, and Favre didn't play well at age 39. Hasselbeck and Brunell barely played. That leaves Moon, Brady, and Brees as QBs who have played as above-average starters during their age 39 season (and Brees is a shaky example as he clearly declined as the season went on).
Bottom line: start a QB past age 38 at your own risk.
Maybe it's time to try something else...
It's not like having him is winning us more than 5 or 6 games a year anyway
I don't know if a new qb will help... but I know what the definition of insanity is
Although a few sentences before you stated this:
I think the first quote is an accurate reflection of who Eli has been the majority of his career and who he might be one day if given protection, but I'm not sure. Certainly lately he has seemed to me to be much less interested in extending plays and more in self-preservation, and I can understand why. I've seen too many plays where he folds when he sees the pressure coming and the defensive matchups appear unfavorable.
Not necessarily his fault, but far from a gun-slinger's mentality which I think he's lost. I fear he will never recover it either. Is the book on defense with Eli to make sure you provide the pressure and take away his first look or two? I think that's the conventional wisdom among fans anyway.
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article. The only viable QB is an emotionally and physically exhausted 38 year old who has taken a beating behind subpar offensive lines for years. The Giants never really protected Eli.
I know comparisons are specious, but consider these QBs.
Hasselbeck, 40 in 2015
Len Dawson, 40 in 1975
Connerly, 40 in 1961
Tom Brady, 41 in 2018
Favre, 41 in 2010
Brunell, 41 in 2011
Warren Moon 44 in 2000
All of whom played very well at age 38 and 39.
Hasselbeck was done as a starter at 36. He didn't hit 20+ touchdown passes since 2007, four years prior.
Mark Brunell was a backup for his last five years. He started 10 games in those years. He was 35 in his final season as starter.
Similar case for Warren Moon.
I've looked at a lot of old Giant games on YouTube and while Eli is obviously more nimble many years ago, Eli's forte was always the ability to move within the pocket. That was how he extended plays.
It would be wonderful to see him surrounded by a good offensive line to see if he could do it one more time. I would also note that the last time the Giants were in the playoffs, they did not lose because of Eli. In fact, if anyone did show up that day, it was Eli. He was spot on with his passes but killed by numerous drops by Beckham and others.
Personally, I still have faith in Eli while admitting it is now time to get someone in to learn behind him and then take over in a year or two. Is that person Haskins? I am not sure. My own feeling is I like Daniel Jones a lot better!
The sad thing about the Eli bashing is the morons in the media who have picked it up and used it as a battering ram. Guys like Jordan Raanan, Pat Leonard and Art Stapleton are the worst in constantly bashing this line. We ignore that Reese and Ross depleted this organization so much it will take a while to rebuild that and Eli doesn't have that time. So, yes, ERIC...YOU ARE DEAD RIGHT! THE GIANTS SCREWED THE LAST SEVEN, SOON TO BE EIGHT YEARS OF ELI'S CAREER.
To be honest, we see this in other areas as well. Green Bay has pretty much done the same thing with Rodgers. Or Seattle with Russell Wilson. How many more hits before he is done? There are lots of people to blame here for the current position we are in and, to me, it starts with John Mara. He allowed this situation to happen even though it was obvious there were major issues with this team.
I feel incredibly sad that the team I love has done this to one of their cornerstone players.
Why is he the only QB who's never responsible for making everyone around him better? SMH. I love how the Manning kid is never the problem.
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I completely agree with what you said about the Giants ruining the second half of Eli's career. Abysmal management from ownership on down that continues as we speak.
Why is he the only QB who's never responsible for making everyone around him better? SMH. I love how the Manning kid is never the problem.
Fucking Eli not getting his defense to play at an average level for the majority of his career!!!
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In comment 14301521 Go Terps said:
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I completely agree with what you said about the Giants ruining the second half of Eli's career. Abysmal management from ownership on down that continues as we speak.
Why is he the only QB who's never responsible for making everyone around him better? SMH. I love how the Manning kid is never the problem.
Fucking Eli not getting his defense to play at an average level for the majority of his career!!!
So the Defense and the O-line and the receivers dropping passes and coaches not max protecting on ever fucking play is the reason we've so bad the past 7 years? You should follow Eli to his next destination since he's GREAT.
So the Defense and the O-line and the receivers dropping passes and coaches not max protecting on ever fucking play is the reason we've so bad the past 7 years? You should follow Eli to his next destination since he's GREAT.
ITS ALL ELI'S FAULT!!!!! LOUD NOISES!
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So the Defense and the O-line and the receivers dropping passes and coaches not max protecting on ever fucking play is the reason we've so bad the past 7 years? You should follow Eli to his next destination since he's GREAT.
ITS ALL ELI'S FAULT!!!!! LOUD NOISES!
Eli's the BEST, He has 10 more years left at a HIGH level; Blah Blah Blah.
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In comment 14302381 Dutch77 said:
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So the Defense and the O-line and the receivers dropping passes and coaches not max protecting on ever fucking play is the reason we've so bad the past 7 years? You should follow Eli to his next destination since he's GREAT.
ITS ALL ELI'S FAULT!!!!! LOUD NOISES!
Eli's the BEST, He has 10 more years left at a HIGH level; Blah Blah Blah.
Said no one on this board, ever. But keep looking at porn on your moms computer in between posts.
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In comment 14302399 dep026 said:
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In comment 14302381 Dutch77 said:
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So the Defense and the O-line and the receivers dropping passes and coaches not max protecting on ever fucking play is the reason we've so bad the past 7 years? You should follow Eli to his next destination since he's GREAT.
ITS ALL ELI'S FAULT!!!!! LOUD NOISES!
Eli's the BEST, He has 10 more years left at a HIGH level; Blah Blah Blah.
Said no one on this board, ever. But keep looking at porn on your moms computer in between posts.
Good to know what you do all day fan boy.
Oh the humanity!!!!
Oh the humanity!!!!
Try focusing on the future success of the TEAM.
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On the team I root for....
Oh the humanity!!!!
Try focusing on the future success of the TEAM.
I have. Your posts make absolutely no sense.
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In comment 14302503 dep026 said:
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On the team I root for....
Oh the humanity!!!!
Try focusing on the future success of the TEAM.
I have. Your posts make absolutely no sense.
You can't be if if think Eli is apart of that future genius.
You can't be if if think Eli is apart of that future genius.
I never said he was? I just said I was a fan of his. And right now he is on the team.
So again, your stupidity reigns supreme!!!!
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You can't be if if think Eli is apart of that future genius.
I never said he was? I just said I was a fan of his. And right now he is on the team.
So again, your stupidity reigns supreme!!!!
So because of your fandom for Eli you blindly support everything he does regardless of how it impacts the team? You sir are an idiot.
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In comment 14302514 Dutch77 said:
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You can't be if if think Eli is apart of that future genius.
I never said he was? I just said I was a fan of his. And right now he is on the team.
So again, your stupidity reigns supreme!!!!
So because of your fandom for Eli you blindly support everything he does regardless of how it impacts the team? You sir are an idiot.
WTF are you babbling about now. First it was Elis fault his teammates arent better, then its I want him to be the long term answer, now its a blindly support him because I root for him?
You are all over the place dude. Get a grip, a life, a girlfriend/boyfriend or something.
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In comment 14302517 dep026 said:
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In comment 14302514 Dutch77 said:
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You can't be if if think Eli is apart of that future genius.
I never said he was? I just said I was a fan of his. And right now he is on the team.
So again, your stupidity reigns supreme!!!!
So because of your fandom for Eli you blindly support everything he does regardless of how it impacts the team? You sir are an idiot.
WTF are you babbling about now. First it was Elis fault his teammates arent better, then its I want him to be the long term answer, now its a blindly support him because I root for him?
You are all over the place dude. Get a grip, a life, a girlfriend/boyfriend or something.
If you're having hard time following. Get off Eli's NUTS. TEAM first, TEAM last. I'm sure he appreciates your fandom but SHIT, be easy.
And blame the team for sucking not just one player.
Yeah that’s me being on his nuts. God damn clown show here anymore.
But you really aren’t about the TEAM..... dipshit.
But you really aren’t about the TEAM..... dipshit.
The one constant to the all the losing is Eli Manning. Let's keep changing everyone else except him and that will fix the problem. Wake the FUCK up.
You think chad wheeler, Curtis Riley, Evan Pulley, BJ Goodson, Kareem Martin are fuckig upgrades cause they are new? You’re dumber than I thought.
Hey we have sucked since 2014.... I guess OBJ is a loser too right? He’s been a constant as well. Great theory you got going on there!!!
Reese and Ross should have been fired in 2012, and every year after that. But it was 2018 before they were actually sent packing. That's SIX effing years of absolutely terrible drafting and team building.
That's why they are in the mess they are in now. It's NOT Eli. It's Mara, Reese, Ross, and to some degree McAdoo.
Don't forget Tisch.
You think chad wheeler, Curtis Riley, Evan Pulley, BJ Goodson, Kareem Martin are fuckig upgrades cause they are new? You’re dumber than I thought.
Hey we have sucked since 2014.... I guess OBJ is a loser too right? He’s been a constant as well. Great theory you got going on there!!!
You're fucking clueless. 4 years is a constant compared to 15 years? Stop already. It's clear you enjoy losing as long as we keep dumbface under center. Dumbass.
Objective me. Loser dupe identified. You are pathetic and the exact reason we have the worst fans in sports. Congrats on being a low class idiot.
Won’t be long before Eric or Gidie ban your ass again.
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In comment 14302381 Dutch77 said:
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So the Defense and the O-line and the receivers dropping passes and coaches not max protecting on ever fucking play is the reason we've so bad the past 7 years? You should follow Eli to his next destination since he's GREAT.
ITS ALL ELI'S FAULT!!!!! LOUD NOISES!
Eli's the BEST, He has 10 more years left at a HIGH level; Blah Blah Blah.
You’re a f***ing D**k. Period.
+1000.
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Too many BBIers attack Eli, disregarding the facts of his record and the lousy teams around him. I guess many of them are trying to impress the rest of us with their 'superior analytical abilities' or their 'superior football
knowledge' or their 'ability to think outside the box'.
Give it up guys. Eli will be around for 2019 and 2020
regardless of your criticisms.
I don't know if it is a "defense" or "excuse" but it is a rational explanation. We'll never know. My personal opinion is the franchise has botched the last seven years and Eli has suffered because of it. He's no innocent, but I've seen too many examples of good QBs getting "ruined" due to shoddy OL play.
+1000
Can he still put up average numbers with everything working around him and studs at the skill positions? Sure. But you can say that about most QBs. With an average roster around him I think he is a bottom half or bottom third (20th-ish) QB. At his salary, he’s an albatross and part of the problem.
The worst part is the longer we wait to draft his successor, the more of Barkley and Beckham’s prime we waste. Make no mistake, we have a 4-5-year window, if that, with two of the best position players in football on O (and two good young players in Engram and Shephard). We need to fill the missing pieces on O (QB, RT and G/C) and make our run asap. We have enough talent at the skill positions on O to make a run with an average D (which we can get to in a year or two with some smart acquisitions).
We need to turn the page at QB.
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In comment 14302399 dep026 said:
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In comment 14302381 Dutch77 said:
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So the Defense and the O-line and the receivers dropping passes and coaches not max protecting on ever fucking play is the reason we've so bad the past 7 years? You should follow Eli to his next destination since he's GREAT.
ITS ALL ELI'S FAULT!!!!! LOUD NOISES!
Eli's the BEST, He has 10 more years left at a HIGH level; Blah Blah Blah.
You’re a f***ing D**k. Period.
So are you asshole. Now eat a dick.
Beatty
Pugh
Richburg
Flowers
If these four high-drafted guys had been 8-10 year starters (not Pro Bowlers, just dependable NFL players through their 20's) Eli would have played 15-20 postseason games and had a first-ballot Hall of Fame career.