Glazer had his weekly mailbag article on the Athletic which was the source of his original prediction last week about Beckham getting traded. What I never heard before is that Shurmur needed to convince Mara/Gettleman to sign him long term. Shurmur said he could keep the circus to a minimum. Here is the blurb:
| It was Pat Shurmur who had to convince the Giants to re-sign him, that he would be worth it, that he would be able to keep the circus at a minimum. Then during the season, Beckham had a sit-down interview with ESPN’s Josina Anderson (and Lil Wayne) that became yet another big controversy. |
This honestly makes sense given the history of Gettleman & paying players. Be interesting to see how this plays out. I didn’t link the article because it requires a subscription.
Plus, it turns out the Giants have a lot more holes than anyone thought. They need massive help on the offensive line, they need a quarterback, they need pass rushers, plural, and they need linebackers. You’re not going to trade Saquon Barkley and you want to start building more around Saquon than you do around Odell. If you can take Odell and get some big bounty for him to fill more holes, I think that’s a wise business decision for the Giants. Giants fans may not agree, but if you can get several players for one, it might work. Whether or not they can get equal value for him, that I do not know.
It's taking on water every day.
It implies that the GM and owner were prepared to move on from OBJ, but the coach convinced them otherwise.
If I'm Shurmer, I'm making sure that I keep in close contact with all of my contacts around the league to set up my next job.
Also, regarding OBJ's contract. Many were quick to claim that OBJ would be a Giant for Life when the news of the extension broke. But when you look at the contract, it has a lot of guaranteed salaries that inflates the guarantee total. Those salaries are the responsibility of the team that he plays for in any given year. The signing bonus was only $20M. Hardly a cap crushing extension if/when the Giants move on. When I saw the details of the contract, I knew then that it was a short-term deal to keep OBJ quiet. He has a lot to prove if he wants to remain in blue.
While I don't necessarily agree with Glazer that the trade would happen this year, it wouldn't be crippling. We ate $15M dead cap on JPP's deal that yielded a 3rd rounder. OBJ's $16M can be done. But from the initial announcement of the contract extension, I figured that 2020 was the year that OBJ could be traded. It aligns with what JT heard and mentioned yesterday.
It implies that the GM and owner were prepared to move on from OBJ, but the coach convinced them otherwise.
If I'm Shurmer, I'm making sure that I keep in close contact with all of my contacts around the league to set up my next job.
I think Shurmur was hired to win. Another sub .500 season & I think we’ll have a new coach next year.
This organization is a mess at every level right now.
It implies that the GM and owner were prepared to move on from OBJ, but the coach convinced them otherwise.
If I'm Shurmer, I'm making sure that I keep in close contact with all of my contacts around the league to set up my next job.
Not sure if it’s done intentionally, but it sure makes his seat awfully warm.
It implies that the GM and owner were prepared to move on from OBJ, but the coach convinced them otherwise.
If I'm Shurmer, I'm making sure that I keep in close contact with all of my contacts around the league to set up my next job.
No, if true it’s embarrassing for the owners and management.
Mix this with the QB panic leading up to the draft, and it's chaos.
This organization is a mess at every level right now.
I can see how Shurmur had sway. It’s his first season and he’s telling you he needs a certain piece to win and wants to make it work. Why wouldn’t they at least hear him out? Bringing him in and then dumping his most talented player with no input would be a little short sighted. But now shurmur has to own it. And I think DG knew that.
This certainly helps explain Shurmur mouthing “throw it to Odell” on the sideline during that game early in the season.
It implies that the GM and owner were prepared to move on from OBJ, but the coach convinced them otherwise.
If I'm Shurmer, I'm making sure that I keep in close contact with all of my contacts around the league to set up my next job.
Failures is pretty strong characterization.
It was an embarrassing interview, sitting next to Lil Wayne and what not, but what he said was pretty tame.
Overall OBJ had a strong year, even with the injury at the end of the season. He did and said a lot more positive things off the field that no one talks about.
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let a coach who has done nothing but lose as a head coach change your mind about something.
This organization is a mess at every level right now.
I can see how Shurmur had sway. It’s his first season and he’s telling you he needs a certain piece to win and wants to make it work. Why wouldn’t they at least hear him out? Bringing him in and then dumping his most talented player with no input would be a little short sighted. But now shurmur has to own it. And I think DG knew that.
This certainly helps explain Shurmur mouthing “throw it to Odell” on the sideline during that game early in the season.
He was already under contract though...
While OBJ is consistent with his tweets with goats(rams) and jackets emblazoned with Hollywood, the most consistent team that has shown interest is the 49'ers. San Fran is in a unique position. They are in year 3 of their rebuild. While the Jimmy G. injury was a fluke, it still doesn't stop the clock on return on the investment. There has to be pressure to see results and win. Getting a sure thing such as OBJ instead of a draft pick will be tempting for them to prove they were right in dumping a pile of cash on Jimmy G.
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The Giants will not trade OBJ unless they get blown away.
While OBJ is consistent with his tweets with goats(rams) and jackets emblazoned with Hollywood, the most consistent team that has shown interest is the 49'ers. San Fran is in a unique position. They are in year 3 of their rebuild. While the Jimmy G. injury was a fluke, it still doesn't stop the clock on return on the investment. There has to be pressure to see results and win. Getting a sure thing such as OBJ instead of a draft pick will be tempting for them to prove they were right in dumping a pile of cash on Jimmy G.
They’ve also been tied to Brown who is available and probably for less
It's taking on water every day.
Shurmur, Gettleman and Mara agreed he was worth the gamble. Then he had an interview. What 'more water' is this taking on?
The thrust of this article is that Odell may be worth trading because of how shitty the whole team is, and the need to plug multiple holes. It is not "team can't win with OBJ sideshow."
I think most people on this site can read and understand basic text. It must be emotional biases that stand in their way of comprehension.
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The Giants will not trade OBJ unless they get blown away.
While OBJ is consistent with his tweets with goats(rams) and jackets emblazoned with Hollywood, the most consistent team that has shown interest is the 49'ers. San Fran is in a unique position. They are in year 3 of their rebuild. While the Jimmy G. injury was a fluke, it still doesn't stop the clock on return on the investment. There has to be pressure to see results and win. Getting a sure thing such as OBJ instead of a draft pick will be tempting for them to prove they were right in dumping a pile of cash on Jimmy G.
Goat is short for Greatest of all time
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In comment 14301923 George from PA said:
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The Giants will not trade OBJ unless they get blown away.
While OBJ is consistent with his tweets with goats(rams) and jackets emblazoned with Hollywood, the most consistent team that has shown interest is the 49'ers. San Fran is in a unique position. They are in year 3 of their rebuild. While the Jimmy G. injury was a fluke, it still doesn't stop the clock on return on the investment. There has to be pressure to see results and win. Getting a sure thing such as OBJ instead of a draft pick will be tempting for them to prove they were right in dumping a pile of cash on Jimmy G.
Goat is short for Greatest of all time
I realize that, but absent a specific emoji for a Ram a horned goat is a close second.
Also, regarding OBJ's contract. Many were quick to claim that OBJ would be a Giant for Life when the news of the extension broke. But when you look at the contract, it has a lot of guaranteed salaries that inflates the guarantee total. Those salaries are the responsibility of the team that he plays for in any given year. The signing bonus was only $20M. Hardly a cap crushing extension if/when the Giants move on. When I saw the details of the contract, I knew then that it was a short-term deal to keep OBJ quiet. He has a lot to prove if he wants to remain in blue.
While I don't necessarily agree with Glazer that the trade would happen this year, it wouldn't be crippling. We ate $15M dead cap on JPP's deal that yielded a 3rd rounder. OBJ's $16M can be done. But from the initial announcement of the contract extension, I figured that 2020 was the year that OBJ could be traded. It aligns with what JT heard and mentioned yesterday.
Also Brock Osweiler (20M straight salary dump) was traded for a 2nd round pick...gives you a rough idea on how much capital equates to a draft pick
Everything this guy does needs to be turned into a spectacle by media and fans. I wouldn't blame him for wanting to get out of here. He spends a lot of time doing good things off the field that get minimal press, yet has to routinely answer questions about a stupid 6 month old interview that contained barely anything of substance.
Either trade the fucking guy or top talking about it. This is ridiculous.
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In comment 14301923 George from PA said:
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The Giants will not trade OBJ unless they get blown away.
While OBJ is consistent with his tweets with goats(rams) and jackets emblazoned with Hollywood, the most consistent team that has shown interest is the 49'ers. San Fran is in a unique position. They are in year 3 of their rebuild. While the Jimmy G. injury was a fluke, it still doesn't stop the clock on return on the investment. There has to be pressure to see results and win. Getting a sure thing such as OBJ instead of a draft pick will be tempting for them to prove they were right in dumping a pile of cash on Jimmy G.
They’ve also been tied to Brown who is available and probably for less
Brown is a headcase and older. Factor in the cost of giving new guaranteed money and the corresponding draft collateral, then Brown's cost will exceed what the draft collateral to get OBJ who is locked up with cost-controlled (albeit guaranteed) salaries. With no signing bonus to account for, San Fran can look at OBJ's contract as a year-to-year team option contract. If their all-in gamble doesn't work out, they can still OBJ again. Brown will have no future trade value.
Excuse me? Nobody knew this? Come on, man.
Excuse me? Nobody knew this? Come on, man.
I know right and the answer to fixing a hole is creating ANOTHER hole?
Mix this with the QB panic leading up to the draft, and it's chaos.
What QB panic? They clearly didn't panic.
Everything this guy does needs to be turned into a spectacle by media and fans. I wouldn't blame him for wanting to get out of here. He spends a lot of time doing good things off the field that get minimal press, yet has to routinely answer questions about a stupid 6 month old interview that contained barely anything of substance.
Either trade the fucking guy or top talking about it. This is ridiculous.
You should realize by now that there are people on this site that count every mention of an old issue as a new issue, and add it on to the growing list of problems. Hence the view that it is "taking on water" or somehow obvious to everyone.
I swear you could post an article about the Panther's Game meltdown from 2015 and a bunch of clowns on this site would respond with "OMG, one more example of OBJ still being a cancer!"
They pay you 90 million dollars and then a month later you go on TV alluding that you'd rather play somewhere else.
How would you feel if you were stroking that check?
While I don't necessarily agree with Glazer that the trade would happen this year, it wouldn't be crippling. We ate $15M dead cap on JPP's deal that yielded a 3rd rounder. OBJ's $16M can be done. But from the initial announcement of the contract extension, I figured that 2020 was the year that OBJ could be traded. It aligns with what JT heard and mentioned yesterday.
The Giants don't have a ton of cap space as it is. You have taken this stance that they could take the hit, and yes, they could, but the point isn't whether they could afford it. It's whether they could afford the hit and also do a good job improving the team. That's $16m the team doesn't have to spend elsewhere and isn't getting production from.
And the JPP trade is the same thing. Yeah, can eat the money. You do so knowing that's money you can't do anything with for that year. You don't get the production, you don't get the ability to find someone who can produce.
So now, not only are you paying him to smear you and be indifferent on playing for your team, but you're paying him to sit on the bench when (in your opinion) he could probably play.
But there's still a difference between that and doing things that are bad for the Giants as a team and this is obviously where he struggles. This impacts W/L, so why wouldn't fans care about a guy acting in a way that's no good for his team?
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Glazer doesn't have to throw mud on the wall to see what sticks. He has an established reputation and is well-connected. So many dismissed Glazer's prediction, but keep in mind that it wasn't a one off comment in a live interview/podcast. He chose the topic out of a number of "mailbag" questions. He wrote his prediction knowing that it would get blow-back from a segment of fans. He doesn't make stuff up. Where there is smoke, there is fire.
Also, regarding OBJ's contract. Many were quick to claim that OBJ would be a Giant for Life when the news of the extension broke. But when you look at the contract, it has a lot of guaranteed salaries that inflates the guarantee total. Those salaries are the responsibility of the team that he plays for in any given year. The signing bonus was only $20M. Hardly a cap crushing extension if/when the Giants move on. When I saw the details of the contract, I knew then that it was a short-term deal to keep OBJ quiet. He has a lot to prove if he wants to remain in blue.
While I don't necessarily agree with Glazer that the trade would happen this year, it wouldn't be crippling. We ate $15M dead cap on JPP's deal that yielded a 3rd rounder. OBJ's $16M can be done. But from the initial announcement of the contract extension, I figured that 2020 was the year that OBJ could be traded. It aligns with what JT heard and mentioned yesterday.
Also Brock Osweiler (20M straight salary dump) was traded for a 2nd round pick...gives you a rough idea on how much capital equates to a draft pick
Um, Osweiler was traded WITH a 2nd round pick (and a 6th) in exchange for a 4th. That was the only way Houston could get rid of him and not eat his guaranteed salary. So you might want to recalculate your draft pick capital.
Excuse me? Nobody knew this? Come on, man.
I agree with you to some extent Chris, but I'm trying to find the quote from Mara, or quote attributed, at some point last season where he seemed to make the admission along the lines of "this might take longer to fix than we thought"
And when you realize that after the Flowers release and Harrison/Apple trades, the Giants ended the season with only 14 players on the roster who were there in 2017, that would seem to bear that out.
So if you are Shurmur, and the Giants are going to tear it all down, knowing he needs to win in order to be able to keep his job, of course he's going to say he wants Odell there. Odell is one of the best in the league and can help him win games. So yes he's going to say he'll find a way to work with him.
JT's information for us yesterday all makes sense in the big picture. The Giants have lots of holes to fill, and they have 11 draft picks. It sounds like unless a QB is there at #6 who they think is in position to play this year, but only if/when the Giants are eliminated (the Kurt Warner giving way to Eli in 2004), they will go with Eli at QB and use those other picks to fill in help for the team. The defense is going to get a massive overhaul this draft and I'd expect of the 11 picks, probably 7-8 will be used on defense (with the likelyhood of a trade for a veteran for a later round pick to plug in, such as Ogletree last year).
The cap hit and watered down market makes little sense to trade Odell this year. I just don't see them eating $17M to get rid of him unless they are given a Godfather deal...which doesn't seem likely since you already have Brown on the market. So Odell stays.
But I do think Glazer will be proven right ultimately. Let's say for argument sake, the Giants pass on Haskins or he's drafted before they pick. There is a better QB class in 2020, but the Giants will need ammo to make sure they are in position to get one. Well, Odell's trade value is first rounder + +. Maybe we are talking a first and third, and maybe a player. More than Oakland got for Cooper for sure. The Giants could use their own pick, plus assets from an Odell trade to be in position to get a 2020 QB. And the cap hit is less.
So now, not only are you paying him to smear you and be indifferent on playing for your team, but you're paying him to sit on the bench when (in your opinion) he could probably play.
I have a real hard time believing this one knowing how cautious the Giants are with injuries.
But there's still a difference between that and doing things that are bad for the Giants as a team and this is obviously where he struggles. This impacts W/L, so why wouldn't fans care about a guy acting in a way that's no good for his team?
Your last sentence is an unprovable opinion you are framing as a fact. That's where my problem is.
What part of any of this is OBJ continuing the BS? Is it his fault his name is brought up? Did he start or contribute to any of this recent talk except to tweet how it's just more ammo to fire him up?
Because I don't remember that being a thing and it seems like a convenient excuse to bang the drum again.
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if you read the tea leaves, benched himself for the final four games of the season.
So now, not only are you paying him to smear you and be indifferent on playing for your team, but you're paying him to sit on the bench when (in your opinion) he could probably play.
I have a real hard time believing this one knowing how cautious the Giants are with injuries.
He got kicked in the butt, basically, and played the next week.
What happened after that?
What's our record when Beckham has been injured/off the field?
We've lost almost every single one of those games.
So, the most major correlation between wins and losses when it comes to Beckham at this time is actually just that when he hasn't played, you can basically pencil NYG in for a loss. Because that's what has happened. And you can't blame him for those games.
So now, not only are you paying him to smear you and be indifferent on playing for your team, but you're paying him to sit on the bench when (in your opinion) he could probably play.
If the Giants believe he benched himself and Shurmur and Gettleman didn't cut him immediately, Mara should release OBJ and then fire Gettleman and Shurmur immediately after for allowing that to happen.
The interview? I would be fine signing that check as long as he is showing up and doing his job every week. He doesn't need to love being a NY Giant anymore than any employee needs to love his employer to do his job and doing it well. Team loyalty is a fan thing.
So if he is not giving his all? Get rid of him now. But I would not stop there if Shurmur told me OBJ was fine and benched himself of his own accord.
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This certainly helps explain Shurmur mouthing “throw it to Odell” on the sideline during that game early in the season.
Are you sure it wasn't because Odell was wide open in the end zone for an easy TD? Occam's razor.
Do some of you have any idea how painful and debilitating a Quad injury can be? The guy even went for a second opinion. Yeah, one of the most competitive guys of this era, is certainly going to sit out the last 4 games and fake severity of his injury. Give me a friggin’ break
You don't believe Jay Glazer? Or are we still playing the game where every one of these reporters that has offered information contrary to the "Beckham is a beautiful teammate" narrative that is circulated here is a shit-stirring terrible journalist?
He got kicked in the butt, basically, and played the next week.
What happened after that?
I'm not sure that's an accurate representation of the diagnosis.
Where did he say that?
Him benching himself doesn't add up to me. He was still talking about running the table when we had playoff odds near zero. I have a hard time believing he wasn't actually injured.
Beckham does not strike me as a guy who is going to pass up on a chance to compete if he has the option.
He caught just 3 of 9 targets for 35 yards in the Bears game that followed the PHI game where he was leg whipped - he clearly wasn't healthy.
The quad gave out during Wednesday's practice that week, however, and Beckham was unable to play against the Redskins in Landover, Md. He has remained sidelined for the rest of the season.
So, as with all things Beckham, wtf are people talking about?
You don't believe Jay Glazer? Or are we still playing the game where every one of these reporters that has offered information contrary to the "Beckham is a beautiful teammate" narrative that is circulated here is a shit-stirring terrible journalist?
Did Glazer report that the Giants said they believe OBJ benched himself when he was healthy? Could you link that please?
You don't believe Jay Glazer? Or are we still playing the game where every one of these reporters that has offered information contrary to the "Beckham is a beautiful teammate" narrative that is circulated here is a shit-stirring terrible journalist?
I don't believe made up quotes, that's for sure.
Glazer didn't say that.
You don't believe Jay Glazer? Or are we still playing the game where every one of these reporters that has offered information contrary to the "Beckham is a beautiful teammate" narrative that is circulated here is a shit-stirring terrible journalist?
I believe that came from the inside info thread yesterday, not Glazer
Does that type of low level stupidity warrant trading him? I don't think so. Glazer claims Shurmur told the Giants organization he could keep the Beckham circus to 'a minimum', I believe he succeeded.
Frankly I'm more worried about his durability at this point. He's misssed 16 of his last 32 starts. Yeah that's 50% and it's a major concern. In football the most important ability is availability on gameday.
Actively trying to trade him since the extension? Is that true?
I don't know about that.
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but it's clear to me where there's smoke there's fire and they've been actively trying to trade him since shortly after that contract was signed.
Actively trying to trade him since the extension? Is that true?
I don't know about that.
C'mon man, he signed that extension in what? August?
It's only been six months since that extension. How long have these trade rumors been going on?
A guy that's had a reputation for being a fiery competetor suddenly turns into a quitter against bottom-level competition? But plays through pain against the best and most difficult matchup?
Makes sense?
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In comment 14301997 Britt in VA said:
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but it's clear to me where there's smoke there's fire and they've been actively trying to trade him since shortly after that contract was signed.
Actively trying to trade him since the extension? Is that true?
I don't know about that.
C'mon man, he signed that extension in what? August?
It's only been six months since that extension. How long have these trade rumors been going on?
None of them mean the Giants are actively trying to trade him.
Listening to offers is something I'd classify as "passive"
If you can show me that they've been legitimately shopping him and are TRYING to deal him, then show me.
But something stinks here.
A guy that's had a reputation for being a fiery competetor suddenly turns into a quitter against bottom-level competition? But plays through pain against the best and most difficult matchup?
Makes sense?
People connect their own dots and create their own stories, man. Even if they don't make sense or aren't logical. It's just easier for some guys to believe that Beckham is some tremendous POS who cares about no one but himself. Maybe it's comforting to have a scapegoat or something. I don't know.
All I know is I'd want to get the fuck out of here ASAP if I were him. The media and fans will just hang on narratives for months and months - hell... we're still hearing about Josh Norman, the boat.. stuff 3 and 4 years old now.
Can't forget the kicking net, either. That was obviously a HUGE problem.
But something stinks here.
Your words were that they were actively trying to trade him. If you can't prove it, why'd you say it?
But something stinks here.
You sort of started the speculation battle with the whole "Giants are mad he benched himself" thing, so appreciate that part of it being done.
If you read what JonC is posting it may be more about being open to a trade since there is a market rather than the Giants trying to push him out.
Childish.
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While I don't necessarily agree with Glazer that the trade would happen this year, it wouldn't be crippling. We ate $15M dead cap on JPP's deal that yielded a 3rd rounder. OBJ's $16M can be done. But from the initial announcement of the contract extension, I figured that 2020 was the year that OBJ could be traded. It aligns with what JT heard and mentioned yesterday.
The Giants don't have a ton of cap space as it is. You have taken this stance that they could take the hit, and yes, they could, but the point isn't whether they could afford it. It's whether they could afford the hit and also do a good job improving the team. That's $16m the team doesn't have to spend elsewhere and isn't getting production from.
And the JPP trade is the same thing. Yeah, can eat the money. You do so knowing that's money you can't do anything with for that year. You don't get the production, you don't get the ability to find someone who can produce.
I think BJ Hill played rather well on a cheaper rookie contract instead of continuing to pay JPP top dollar. While their stats don't match up from last season, I would say that we had the ability to find someone who can produce and did. If eating OBJ's $16M yields draft collateral that allows us to get a premier pass rusher or the ability to trade up to secure a franchise QB in 2020, I would say that is a good trade-off. If we need more cap room, Abrams can find ways to create additional space. Some might not like it, but a 1 year extension to Eli might kick the can down the road but it would create the cap space needed to still eat OBJ's money while having plenty to improve the roster this year.
I don't know if they're actively trying to trade him. But SOMETHING is happening. You think this is all media hype with no substance? I don't, so there's that.
And I'm not a poster that's actually in the trade Beckham camp.
There is a TON of chatter about an Odell Beckham trade. I think that's strange after signing a 90 million dollar contract 6 months ago.
Teams see that the Giants are in a bad place right now, may not be a year away from competing, could potentially use additional picks to expedite their rebuild process, and are trying to pry an elite player away from us for a song.
They're probably thinking a poorly managed team may not be fully aware of the value of their own assets and that they can potentially take advantage of that - which is where you get stories like the Patriots/obj stuff. I'm sure they looked at us and said "hey we might be able to get this guy without giving up the moon...."
And that's why I think there's still a lot of buzz. I don't think NYG are placing the calls here. But it does seem they've received a few.
It's a matter of semantics. Did the Giants call every team and ask if they wanted him? No. Did the Giants put it out there that they'd be willing to listen? Seems plausible.
Odell Beckham Jr generates buzz like very few can. Just his name generates hundreds of posts on a near-daily basis.
This is another thread that will have 300+ posts on it by the time it dies. It will continue and contain the same exact arguments that everyone already put out there yesterday.
Beckham is a lightning rod and an easy way for journalists to drive traffic and create buzz. Shitty reporters like Josina Anderson make a living off this stuff.
I actually do see NYG potentially trading Beckham - but not this year.
This organization is a mess at every level right now.
Assuming this is true, what Mook said, many times over.
The answer is no.
So this year, maybe next year if the cap ramifications are too much to bear.
The point is, and Terps said it best. It aint gonna end well here NYG and Beckham.
Either he'll be part of the Giants or he'll recoup assets in a trade. This ominous line that has been parroted for like 3 years now about how badly this is going to end means nothing to me.
You don’t make him the highest paid WR in history to trade him..As to the inference that he’s injury prone, I’d say more unlucky than prone. None of his injuries are chronic. He’s missed a bunch of time, but could play a full schedule 5 years in a row.
I remember Simms’ injury history from 1979-83..He finally received some good luck and played healthy the rest of his career, save for the Late ‘90 foot injury incurred against the Bills
The Brock Osweiler trade last year showed the value of 20 mil cap space is a 2nd round pick, so as long as you get more than a 2nd the cap hit of trading Beckham is worth it for the draft pick in itself.
There's still nothing here that says he's a bad teammate, either.
Do any of his teammates seem to not like him? It sure doesn't look that way to me. Barkley is constantly by his side. So is Shepard. If you ask me, I think his teammates actually like him quite a bit.
You can just say that you prefer the Giants to trade him from a football standpoint - that's a fine opinion to have. Making all this extra stuff up or including points irrelevant to the discussion aren't really necessary.
Beckham being a lifelong Giant or any of that isn't important to me.
He may be somewhat of a PITA for management, but his team mates all talk about him glowingly.
Everyone was concerned he would be bothered by the light being shined on Saquon, but who presented SB with his ROTY award.
There is zero to indicate he is a bad team mate and a lot to indicate he is a great one.
but can we please stop with the teammates who give him "glowing" reviews. Most of these teammates are bad football players who have contributed to the losing as well.
Worthless player.
but can we please stop with the teammates who give him "glowing" reviews. Most of these teammates are bad football players who have contributed to the losing as well.
Including Saquon?
I don't know if they're actively trying to trade him. But SOMETHING is happening. You think this is all media hype with no substance? I don't, so there's that.
And I'm not a poster that's actually in the trade Beckham camp.
There is a TON of chatter about an Odell Beckham trade. I think that's strange after signing a 90 million dollar contract 6 months ago.
Anytime you have a topic that gets clicks you get clicks. Tada
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he isnt going anywhere....
but can we please stop with the teammates who give him "glowing" reviews. Most of these teammates are bad football players who have contributed to the losing as well.
Including Saquon?
I guess the word "Most" is hard to understand.
Listen, all of the same people who praise OBJ are the ones that say the same things about Eli. And we all know Eli has 1 year tops left with the team.
Good teammates stick up for one another. It shouldnt be the basis for whether or not he is good for the team. But he isnt going anywhere.
This is what happens when your team is bad. The more popular players are going to take all of the heat. Look at who 90% of the articles are geared too.... Eli and OBJ. They are clickbait articles where authors can skew thigns to make them look bad. You cant say anything bad about Barkley - but if Barkley has a few bad games in a row - he will be next.
You cant talk about the Chad Wheelers, Sterling Shepards, Evan Engrams, James bettchers, or BW Webbs of the world... why? Cause no one outside the NYG fan base gives a shit about them.
but can we please stop with the teammates who give him "glowing" reviews. Most of these teammates are bad football players who have contributed to the losing as well.
As soon as we stop with the "he's a bad teammate" narrative, sure.
Because that's entirely unprovable and there's nothing that even appears that way - yet, I have to read through posters claiming it on a weekly (usually daily) basis here.
We wouldn't need to talk about it if people would just stop making up narratives that don't exist. The first thing I read about teammates actually not liking him or him being a divisive presence as far as players go will be the first. I really don't know where people get this stuff from.
Barkley was attached to his hip most of the year and Shepard has been since he got here. Now the players have to be good players for it to count? LOL. Talk about moving goalposts...
It would be interesting to know how many of that had the endorsement of Shurmur or started with him.
I simply don't understand why so many fans would rather football be a soap opera than a sport. But I guess if you prefer the gossipy drama of Real Housewives of East Rutherford, who am I to crap on your parade?
There's dismissing his prediction and there's keeping it in the proper perspective.
So many people (many who call themselves professionals) have spread the news about the prediction without its context.
He was asked to make a "bold prediction."
If you ask a weatherman to predict the amount of snow that's going to fall in an upcoming storm, he looks at the data, sees there's a 75% chance it's going to be in the 2-4" range and he tells you 3".
If you ask him to make a "bold prediction" about the storm, he tells you 10". There is data that suggests it's not impossible, even though there's less than a 5% chance of it actually happening.
It seems to me that this situation was like the latter example but most people are treating it like the former.
And this extra info that Glazer is sharing isn't added on to the evidence - it went into his bold prediction that he still called bold.
Does that sound like a great teammate?
Can't miss TV.
Does that sound like a great teammate?
It actually just sounds like you're readily accepting hearsay as fact because it supports things you want it to support.
But what do I know.
I'll take him at his word because he's shown in the past to know what he's talking about. If he came out and said, "people in the organization are enabled with Beckham's attitude and leadership in the locker room" it would give me major pause about how I feel about Beckham. Your also be here saying we should take jtgiants at his word because he had a history of knowing what he's talking about.
Don't get mad at me. I'm not the reason Beckham's an asshole, and I'm also not the reason you failed to see it.
You were fondling yourself when you typed that, didn't you?
So keep foolishly diminishing his argument but his track record is pretty good with this type of thing.
But it’s also easy for me to root for Beckham and want him here and support him and then move on if the Giants move on.
Either way this who’s right who’s wrong stuff is pointless. You’ve got a 50/50 shot on these things, yay!!!!
Does that sound like a great teammate?
How could he have played if he was never cleared by the team's doctors to play?
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Well apparently the front office thinks he sat out the last four games of the season when he could have played. And that was a month or two after he threw the QB under the bus on ESPN. Oh and there is concern in the organization about what his influence would be on a young QB.
Does that sound like a great teammate?
How could he have played if he was never cleared by the team's doctors to play?
I don't know. But if that's the case then why is the team upset with him for it?
I don't actually care which one it is, but there's a massive difference between the two.
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In comment 14302201 Go Terps said:
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Well apparently the front office thinks he sat out the last four games of the season when he could have played. And that was a month or two after he threw the QB under the bus on ESPN. Oh and there is concern in the organization about what his influence would be on a young QB.
Does that sound like a great teammate?
How could he have played if he was never cleared by the team's doctors to play?
I don't know. But if that's the case then why is the team upset with him for it?
maybe that information is wrong? or got changed in translation to sound more ominous than the original intent?
...On Beckham. Was told Giants were VERY upset he didn't play at end of year. Also ESPN interview wasn't something that pleased him....
I'll concede it's possible that jtgiants and Jay Glazer are wrong, but that's not their history.
If things don't go well in 2019 and we don't draft a QB, I could see the Giants dealing Beckham in 2020 to move up for a QB of the future they like. Beckham would still be $14M in dead cap but at least it would be a net positive in cap room and DG did not shy away from dealing with JPP's dead cap number.
Someone please let me know if I'm mistaken about the net positive cap implications of trading OBJ in 2020. I know for a fact trading him in 2019 would be a cap nightmare though. Like I said if it's actually cheaper to KEEP him then that's what the Giants are doing. They need to win sooner not later and losing your star player in favor of a new 1st rd pick along with diminishing your cap room at the same tjime is not the formula to win games NOW.
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Of course you will - it jibes with what you want to hear and allows you to continue along with the daily agenda...
I'll take him at his word because he's shown in the past to know what he's talking about. If he came out and said, "people in the organization are enabled with Beckham's attitude and leadership in the locker room" it would give me major pause about how I feel about Beckham. Your also be here saying we should take jtgiants at his word because he had a history of knowing what he's talking about.
Don't get mad at me. I'm not the reason Beckham's an asshole, and I'm also not the reason you failed to see it.
Who said I was mad? You're exhausting - and beyond a broken record on all things Beckham. But I'm not mad at you.
I also actually don't care if Beckham is an "asshole" or not and can't figure out why you do. I'm not here to eat dinner with him, I'm here to watch him score touchdowns and help the Giants put points on the board.
A lot of athletes are assholes. If this is your standard, you're going to have a tough time ever winning football games.
Something about this dude just really is in your head and bothers you in a big, big way. Can't figure out what it is or why - but this guy's name sets off sirens everywhere for you. Every single place his name appears on this message board - there you are.
It's funny because I'd say the same about you and several other posters.
What happened to the sarcastic "trade Beckham!" threads and comments? Don't see those so much around here anymore.
That's why I'm on a lot of the threads. I gravitate towards things I like or enjoy. I think he's a great player and I enjoy watching him play football. I want him here and he's a major part of the football team I root for right now.
It makes sense for me.
You continually gravitate towards a subject that clearly bugs you an annoys you. Why?
I also hadn't made any of those jokes in quite a while - but I know how much they get to you, so maybe I'll start doing it a little bit again. Just to mix things up and keep us at odds.
OBJ's Contract. - ( New Window )
So keep foolishly diminishing his argument but his track record is pretty good with this type of thing.
That's all fine but there's the love affair with Lamar Jackson too, so, what's that say?
Pat Leonard has made it his life mission to put Beckham on the back page for crime in the city and even HE hasn't been able to dig up enough to run with the idea that the team is furious at Beckham for allegedly quitting. The GM himself was recently quoted when responding to trade rumors that they "didn't sign him to trade him".
This was AFTER he missed those games. Did the team need a few weeks after the super bowl to decide that they were mad?
The conspiracy theory is fun, but the likely truth is he was hurt, played through it, made it worse, and needed to sit. Why is the most logical explanation the least considered?
Some people have an axe to grind on Beckham, and they haven't been able to find a way to question his effort yet. Smells like looking for a reason to.
Burress may have cost us in '08 - but we never win without him in '07. No one can convince me otherwise.
Because his presence and more importantly, the Giants' tolerance and willingness to pay him, are a big reason this team has been a loser since he got here. He's a losing player, and he's helping make this a losing team.
Yeah he's a talent (though not yet the same as before the injury), but that talent isn't enough to override the bullshit he brings with him...and I'd bet a paycheck that we've only heard a portion of what actually goes on.
My biggest worry from the beginning was that they'd be stupid enough to pay him. They confirmed that fear and now we're probably looking at significant dead money at some point in the next year or two after we trade him for 75 cents on the dollar.
Beckham is a loser and an asshole, yeah...but he's just a symptom of a bigger issue with this team. I've said that from the beginning. The blame falls on Coughlin, Reese, McAdoo, Gettleman, Shurmur (who if jtgiants is to be believed is the reason we paid him that idiotic contract), and most of all, Mara. He's so sensitive to history (as we're seeing with him clinging to Eli), but was willing to forget past consequences of placating an idiot like Beckham.
He won't end up shooting himself in the leg, but the consequences of that contract are going to ripple out.
You still haven't actually told me why him being an asshole would matter, anyway. You strike me as a guy who would say you don't give a shit about a player's persona because you're not here to follow the tabloid pages and only care about football - but with Beckham, you mock "fanboys" who follow him on IG while you actually follow his every move just as closely as those people do. Is that any better or different?
Ray Lewis probably killed someone and has two Super Bowl rings.
I don't agree with your tendency to associate team success with an individual player, then labeling that single player a loser or a winner. This isn't basketball. Beckham literally could not have done any more than he did for this team in his first 2-3 seasons.
I guess where I also land on this is that there is definitely a way to fix this, I don't think it's completely broken but it will take a plan and action. This isn't just going to fix itself.
It implies that the GM and owner were prepared to move on from OBJ, but the coach convinced them otherwise.
If I'm Shurmer, I'm making sure that I keep in close contact with all of my contacts around the league to set up my next job.
Rich - I think this is a good point and may be a possibility. I have no idea what's happening behind the scenes with this team, but something is.
OK, so what are the net savings we are talking about here. It still seems like if we trade him in 2019 we aren't saving very much. Feels to me like it would be worth it to keep him the team if we aren't saving much money. This team needs a QB heir apparent to Eli and I'm not sure 2019 is the year to move up and get that guy. I would still say keep OBJ and deal him in 2020 if that's what is required to move up and get Tua or Herbert. Right now we need to get one of these elite edge rushers that will inevitably fall to #6.
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You are wrong on your numbers. The $35M dead cap hit is if he is released. OBJ will never be released. What you need to look at are trades. 2019 Pre-6/1 Trade: $16M dead cap hit. 2019 Post-6/1 Trade: 2019 dead cap hit - $4M; 2020 dead cap hit - $12M. 2020 Pre-6/1 Trade: $12M dead cap hit; 2020 Post-6/1 Trade: 2020 dead cap hit - $4M; 2021 dead cap hit - $8M. OBJ's Contract. - ( New Window )
OK, so what are the net savings we are talking about here. It still seems like if we trade him in 2019 we aren't saving very much. Feels to me like it would be worth it to keep him the team if we aren't saving much money. This team needs a QB heir apparent to Eli and I'm not sure 2019 is the year to move up and get that guy. I would still say keep OBJ and deal him in 2020 if that's what is required to move up and get Tua or Herbert. Right now we need to get one of these elite edge rushers that will inevitably fall to #6.
If we disregard the post-6/1 trade numbers and only focus on the pre-6/1 trade numbers (after all we are focused on draft picks in the given year to offset any trade/savings).
2019 - $16M dead cap hit; $5M cap savings
2020 - $12M dead cap hit; $7.25M cap savings
My preference in any trade scenario is to get the draft capital to acquire a QB in 2020. Ideally, it would be great if OBJ remains with the team and we get our QB. But to eat $12M in 2020 and get our QB of the future isn't a bad deal.
It's taking on water every day.
You're like a one-trick pony.
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Of course you will - it jibes with what you want to hear and allows you to continue along with the daily agenda...
I'll take him at his word because he's shown in the past to know what he's talking about. If he came out and said, "people in the organization are enabled with Beckham's attitude and leadership in the locker room" it would give me major pause about how I feel about Beckham. Your also be here saying we should take jtgiants at his word because he had a history of knowing what he's talking about.
Don't get mad at me. I'm not the reason Beckham's an asshole, and I'm also not the reason you failed to see it.
Beckham's not an asshole. And quite frankly, if I thought you were capable of identifying an asshole, I'd expect your posting style to change.
Neither.
Woman’s thumbs. That shit gets crazy.
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brings out more overwrought emotional meltdowns from the Giants' fan base.
Neither.
Woman’s thumbs. That shit gets crazy.
Maybe Olive Garden?
You can call that contract a lot of things. “Team favorable” isn’t one of them. He was coming off a serious injury, creating a circus around the contract and still had a year left on his deal and let’s be honest, character concerns. And he stil got made the highest paid WR. That deal was fair being generous to OBJ and I am a fan of his.
It's nothing but silly to not put any blame on Beckham, he did not have to do that interview. And also it is the media's job to look for stories it's the job of the players and the franchise not to give them anything juicy. Even what Mara said during the year I would call a miscalculation so no one is blameless.
Look at what it generates.
Every single time, too. Hundreds of posts. Think about the traffic this one player has probably been responsible for on this website alone through all of the endless debating and discussing of him over the years.
The media knows it's a hot-button topic and their business is to drive traffic and generate clicks.
Remember that they have an agenda - and everyone here is playing their part to make it work for them. Including me, stupidly.
....reality is, if he keeps throwing tantrums he'll be gone. Gettleman ain't the dude to put up with too much shit.
That's coming from someone who hopes he stays and we figure this out.
Shep is NOT a #1.
It's taking on water every day.
Beckham is a bigger distraction to this team than Shockey ever was....
But he doesn't. Look at the contract and not the headline. Despite the bloated amount, there was only a $20M signing bonus. All the inflated numbers are guaranteed salary that is paid either by the Giants or a trading team. It is essentially a year-to-year contract with a team option.