Glazer had his weekly mailbag article on the Athletic which was the source of his original prediction last week about Beckham getting traded. What I never heard before is that Shurmur needed to convince Mara/Gettleman to sign him long term. Shurmur said he could keep the circus to a minimum. Here is the blurb:
| It was Pat Shurmur who had to convince the Giants to re-sign him, that he would be worth it, that he would be able to keep the circus at a minimum. Then during the season, Beckham had a sit-down interview with ESPN’s Josina Anderson (and Lil Wayne) that became yet another big controversy. |
This honestly makes sense given the history of Gettleman & paying players. Be interesting to see how this plays out. I didn’t link the article because it requires a subscription.
Plus, it turns out the Giants have a lot more holes than anyone thought. They need massive help on the offensive line, they need a quarterback, they need pass rushers, plural, and they need linebackers. You’re not going to trade Saquon Barkley and you want to start building more around Saquon than you do around Odell. If you can take Odell and get some big bounty for him to fill more holes, I think that’s a wise business decision for the Giants. Giants fans may not agree, but if you can get several players for one, it might work. Whether or not they can get equal value for him, that I do not know.
It's taking on water every day.
It implies that the GM and owner were prepared to move on from OBJ, but the coach convinced them otherwise.
If I'm Shurmer, I'm making sure that I keep in close contact with all of my contacts around the league to set up my next job.
Also, regarding OBJ's contract. Many were quick to claim that OBJ would be a Giant for Life when the news of the extension broke. But when you look at the contract, it has a lot of guaranteed salaries that inflates the guarantee total. Those salaries are the responsibility of the team that he plays for in any given year. The signing bonus was only $20M. Hardly a cap crushing extension if/when the Giants move on. When I saw the details of the contract, I knew then that it was a short-term deal to keep OBJ quiet. He has a lot to prove if he wants to remain in blue.
While I don't necessarily agree with Glazer that the trade would happen this year, it wouldn't be crippling. We ate $15M dead cap on JPP's deal that yielded a 3rd rounder. OBJ's $16M can be done. But from the initial announcement of the contract extension, I figured that 2020 was the year that OBJ could be traded. It aligns with what JT heard and mentioned yesterday.
It implies that the GM and owner were prepared to move on from OBJ, but the coach convinced them otherwise.
If I'm Shurmer, I'm making sure that I keep in close contact with all of my contacts around the league to set up my next job.
I think Shurmur was hired to win. Another sub .500 season & I think we’ll have a new coach next year.
This organization is a mess at every level right now.
It implies that the GM and owner were prepared to move on from OBJ, but the coach convinced them otherwise.
If I'm Shurmer, I'm making sure that I keep in close contact with all of my contacts around the league to set up my next job.
Not sure if it’s done intentionally, but it sure makes his seat awfully warm.
It implies that the GM and owner were prepared to move on from OBJ, but the coach convinced them otherwise.
If I'm Shurmer, I'm making sure that I keep in close contact with all of my contacts around the league to set up my next job.
No, if true it’s embarrassing for the owners and management.
Mix this with the QB panic leading up to the draft, and it's chaos.
This organization is a mess at every level right now.
I can see how Shurmur had sway. It’s his first season and he’s telling you he needs a certain piece to win and wants to make it work. Why wouldn’t they at least hear him out? Bringing him in and then dumping his most talented player with no input would be a little short sighted. But now shurmur has to own it. And I think DG knew that.
This certainly helps explain Shurmur mouthing “throw it to Odell” on the sideline during that game early in the season.
It implies that the GM and owner were prepared to move on from OBJ, but the coach convinced them otherwise.
If I'm Shurmer, I'm making sure that I keep in close contact with all of my contacts around the league to set up my next job.
Failures is pretty strong characterization.
It was an embarrassing interview, sitting next to Lil Wayne and what not, but what he said was pretty tame.
Overall OBJ had a strong year, even with the injury at the end of the season. He did and said a lot more positive things off the field that no one talks about.
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let a coach who has done nothing but lose as a head coach change your mind about something.
This organization is a mess at every level right now.
I can see how Shurmur had sway. It’s his first season and he’s telling you he needs a certain piece to win and wants to make it work. Why wouldn’t they at least hear him out? Bringing him in and then dumping his most talented player with no input would be a little short sighted. But now shurmur has to own it. And I think DG knew that.
This certainly helps explain Shurmur mouthing “throw it to Odell” on the sideline during that game early in the season.
He was already under contract though...
While OBJ is consistent with his tweets with goats(rams) and jackets emblazoned with Hollywood, the most consistent team that has shown interest is the 49'ers. San Fran is in a unique position. They are in year 3 of their rebuild. While the Jimmy G. injury was a fluke, it still doesn't stop the clock on return on the investment. There has to be pressure to see results and win. Getting a sure thing such as OBJ instead of a draft pick will be tempting for them to prove they were right in dumping a pile of cash on Jimmy G.
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The Giants will not trade OBJ unless they get blown away.
While OBJ is consistent with his tweets with goats(rams) and jackets emblazoned with Hollywood, the most consistent team that has shown interest is the 49'ers. San Fran is in a unique position. They are in year 3 of their rebuild. While the Jimmy G. injury was a fluke, it still doesn't stop the clock on return on the investment. There has to be pressure to see results and win. Getting a sure thing such as OBJ instead of a draft pick will be tempting for them to prove they were right in dumping a pile of cash on Jimmy G.
They’ve also been tied to Brown who is available and probably for less
It's taking on water every day.
Shurmur, Gettleman and Mara agreed he was worth the gamble. Then he had an interview. What 'more water' is this taking on?
The thrust of this article is that Odell may be worth trading because of how shitty the whole team is, and the need to plug multiple holes. It is not "team can't win with OBJ sideshow."
I think most people on this site can read and understand basic text. It must be emotional biases that stand in their way of comprehension.
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The Giants will not trade OBJ unless they get blown away.
While OBJ is consistent with his tweets with goats(rams) and jackets emblazoned with Hollywood, the most consistent team that has shown interest is the 49'ers. San Fran is in a unique position. They are in year 3 of their rebuild. While the Jimmy G. injury was a fluke, it still doesn't stop the clock on return on the investment. There has to be pressure to see results and win. Getting a sure thing such as OBJ instead of a draft pick will be tempting for them to prove they were right in dumping a pile of cash on Jimmy G.
Goat is short for Greatest of all time
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In comment 14301923 George from PA said:
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The Giants will not trade OBJ unless they get blown away.
While OBJ is consistent with his tweets with goats(rams) and jackets emblazoned with Hollywood, the most consistent team that has shown interest is the 49'ers. San Fran is in a unique position. They are in year 3 of their rebuild. While the Jimmy G. injury was a fluke, it still doesn't stop the clock on return on the investment. There has to be pressure to see results and win. Getting a sure thing such as OBJ instead of a draft pick will be tempting for them to prove they were right in dumping a pile of cash on Jimmy G.
Goat is short for Greatest of all time
I realize that, but absent a specific emoji for a Ram a horned goat is a close second.
Also, regarding OBJ's contract. Many were quick to claim that OBJ would be a Giant for Life when the news of the extension broke. But when you look at the contract, it has a lot of guaranteed salaries that inflates the guarantee total. Those salaries are the responsibility of the team that he plays for in any given year. The signing bonus was only $20M. Hardly a cap crushing extension if/when the Giants move on. When I saw the details of the contract, I knew then that it was a short-term deal to keep OBJ quiet. He has a lot to prove if he wants to remain in blue.
While I don't necessarily agree with Glazer that the trade would happen this year, it wouldn't be crippling. We ate $15M dead cap on JPP's deal that yielded a 3rd rounder. OBJ's $16M can be done. But from the initial announcement of the contract extension, I figured that 2020 was the year that OBJ could be traded. It aligns with what JT heard and mentioned yesterday.
Also Brock Osweiler (20M straight salary dump) was traded for a 2nd round pick...gives you a rough idea on how much capital equates to a draft pick
Everything this guy does needs to be turned into a spectacle by media and fans. I wouldn't blame him for wanting to get out of here. He spends a lot of time doing good things off the field that get minimal press, yet has to routinely answer questions about a stupid 6 month old interview that contained barely anything of substance.
Either trade the fucking guy or top talking about it. This is ridiculous.
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In comment 14301923 George from PA said:
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The Giants will not trade OBJ unless they get blown away.
While OBJ is consistent with his tweets with goats(rams) and jackets emblazoned with Hollywood, the most consistent team that has shown interest is the 49'ers. San Fran is in a unique position. They are in year 3 of their rebuild. While the Jimmy G. injury was a fluke, it still doesn't stop the clock on return on the investment. There has to be pressure to see results and win. Getting a sure thing such as OBJ instead of a draft pick will be tempting for them to prove they were right in dumping a pile of cash on Jimmy G.
They’ve also been tied to Brown who is available and probably for less
Brown is a headcase and older. Factor in the cost of giving new guaranteed money and the corresponding draft collateral, then Brown's cost will exceed what the draft collateral to get OBJ who is locked up with cost-controlled (albeit guaranteed) salaries. With no signing bonus to account for, San Fran can look at OBJ's contract as a year-to-year team option contract. If their all-in gamble doesn't work out, they can still OBJ again. Brown will have no future trade value.
Excuse me? Nobody knew this? Come on, man.
Excuse me? Nobody knew this? Come on, man.
I know right and the answer to fixing a hole is creating ANOTHER hole?
Mix this with the QB panic leading up to the draft, and it's chaos.
What QB panic? They clearly didn't panic.
Everything this guy does needs to be turned into a spectacle by media and fans. I wouldn't blame him for wanting to get out of here. He spends a lot of time doing good things off the field that get minimal press, yet has to routinely answer questions about a stupid 6 month old interview that contained barely anything of substance.
Either trade the fucking guy or top talking about it. This is ridiculous.
You should realize by now that there are people on this site that count every mention of an old issue as a new issue, and add it on to the growing list of problems. Hence the view that it is "taking on water" or somehow obvious to everyone.
I swear you could post an article about the Panther's Game meltdown from 2015 and a bunch of clowns on this site would respond with "OMG, one more example of OBJ still being a cancer!"
They pay you 90 million dollars and then a month later you go on TV alluding that you'd rather play somewhere else.
How would you feel if you were stroking that check?
While I don't necessarily agree with Glazer that the trade would happen this year, it wouldn't be crippling. We ate $15M dead cap on JPP's deal that yielded a 3rd rounder. OBJ's $16M can be done. But from the initial announcement of the contract extension, I figured that 2020 was the year that OBJ could be traded. It aligns with what JT heard and mentioned yesterday.
The Giants don't have a ton of cap space as it is. You have taken this stance that they could take the hit, and yes, they could, but the point isn't whether they could afford it. It's whether they could afford the hit and also do a good job improving the team. That's $16m the team doesn't have to spend elsewhere and isn't getting production from.
And the JPP trade is the same thing. Yeah, can eat the money. You do so knowing that's money you can't do anything with for that year. You don't get the production, you don't get the ability to find someone who can produce.
So now, not only are you paying him to smear you and be indifferent on playing for your team, but you're paying him to sit on the bench when (in your opinion) he could probably play.
But there's still a difference between that and doing things that are bad for the Giants as a team and this is obviously where he struggles. This impacts W/L, so why wouldn't fans care about a guy acting in a way that's no good for his team?
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Glazer doesn't have to throw mud on the wall to see what sticks. He has an established reputation and is well-connected. So many dismissed Glazer's prediction, but keep in mind that it wasn't a one off comment in a live interview/podcast. He chose the topic out of a number of "mailbag" questions. He wrote his prediction knowing that it would get blow-back from a segment of fans. He doesn't make stuff up. Where there is smoke, there is fire.
Also, regarding OBJ's contract. Many were quick to claim that OBJ would be a Giant for Life when the news of the extension broke. But when you look at the contract, it has a lot of guaranteed salaries that inflates the guarantee total. Those salaries are the responsibility of the team that he plays for in any given year. The signing bonus was only $20M. Hardly a cap crushing extension if/when the Giants move on. When I saw the details of the contract, I knew then that it was a short-term deal to keep OBJ quiet. He has a lot to prove if he wants to remain in blue.
While I don't necessarily agree with Glazer that the trade would happen this year, it wouldn't be crippling. We ate $15M dead cap on JPP's deal that yielded a 3rd rounder. OBJ's $16M can be done. But from the initial announcement of the contract extension, I figured that 2020 was the year that OBJ could be traded. It aligns with what JT heard and mentioned yesterday.
Also Brock Osweiler (20M straight salary dump) was traded for a 2nd round pick...gives you a rough idea on how much capital equates to a draft pick
Um, Osweiler was traded WITH a 2nd round pick (and a 6th) in exchange for a 4th. That was the only way Houston could get rid of him and not eat his guaranteed salary. So you might want to recalculate your draft pick capital.
Excuse me? Nobody knew this? Come on, man.
I agree with you to some extent Chris, but I'm trying to find the quote from Mara, or quote attributed, at some point last season where he seemed to make the admission along the lines of "this might take longer to fix than we thought"
And when you realize that after the Flowers release and Harrison/Apple trades, the Giants ended the season with only 14 players on the roster who were there in 2017, that would seem to bear that out.
So if you are Shurmur, and the Giants are going to tear it all down, knowing he needs to win in order to be able to keep his job, of course he's going to say he wants Odell there. Odell is one of the best in the league and can help him win games. So yes he's going to say he'll find a way to work with him.
JT's information for us yesterday all makes sense in the big picture. The Giants have lots of holes to fill, and they have 11 draft picks. It sounds like unless a QB is there at #6 who they think is in position to play this year, but only if/when the Giants are eliminated (the Kurt Warner giving way to Eli in 2004), they will go with Eli at QB and use those other picks to fill in help for the team. The defense is going to get a massive overhaul this draft and I'd expect of the 11 picks, probably 7-8 will be used on defense (with the likelyhood of a trade for a veteran for a later round pick to plug in, such as Ogletree last year).
The cap hit and watered down market makes little sense to trade Odell this year. I just don't see them eating $17M to get rid of him unless they are given a Godfather deal...which doesn't seem likely since you already have Brown on the market. So Odell stays.
But I do think Glazer will be proven right ultimately. Let's say for argument sake, the Giants pass on Haskins or he's drafted before they pick. There is a better QB class in 2020, but the Giants will need ammo to make sure they are in position to get one. Well, Odell's trade value is first rounder + +. Maybe we are talking a first and third, and maybe a player. More than Oakland got for Cooper for sure. The Giants could use their own pick, plus assets from an Odell trade to be in position to get a 2020 QB. And the cap hit is less.
So now, not only are you paying him to smear you and be indifferent on playing for your team, but you're paying him to sit on the bench when (in your opinion) he could probably play.
I have a real hard time believing this one knowing how cautious the Giants are with injuries.
But there's still a difference between that and doing things that are bad for the Giants as a team and this is obviously where he struggles. This impacts W/L, so why wouldn't fans care about a guy acting in a way that's no good for his team?
Your last sentence is an unprovable opinion you are framing as a fact. That's where my problem is.
What part of any of this is OBJ continuing the BS? Is it his fault his name is brought up? Did he start or contribute to any of this recent talk except to tweet how it's just more ammo to fire him up?
Because I don't remember that being a thing and it seems like a convenient excuse to bang the drum again.
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if you read the tea leaves, benched himself for the final four games of the season.
So now, not only are you paying him to smear you and be indifferent on playing for your team, but you're paying him to sit on the bench when (in your opinion) he could probably play.
I have a real hard time believing this one knowing how cautious the Giants are with injuries.
He got kicked in the butt, basically, and played the next week.
What happened after that?
What's our record when Beckham has been injured/off the field?
We've lost almost every single one of those games.
So, the most major correlation between wins and losses when it comes to Beckham at this time is actually just that when he hasn't played, you can basically pencil NYG in for a loss. Because that's what has happened. And you can't blame him for those games.
So now, not only are you paying him to smear you and be indifferent on playing for your team, but you're paying him to sit on the bench when (in your opinion) he could probably play.
If the Giants believe he benched himself and Shurmur and Gettleman didn't cut him immediately, Mara should release OBJ and then fire Gettleman and Shurmur immediately after for allowing that to happen.
The interview? I would be fine signing that check as long as he is showing up and doing his job every week. He doesn't need to love being a NY Giant anymore than any employee needs to love his employer to do his job and doing it well. Team loyalty is a fan thing.
So if he is not giving his all? Get rid of him now. But I would not stop there if Shurmur told me OBJ was fine and benched himself of his own accord.
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This certainly helps explain Shurmur mouthing “throw it to Odell” on the sideline during that game early in the season.
Are you sure it wasn't because Odell was wide open in the end zone for an easy TD? Occam's razor.
Do some of you have any idea how painful and debilitating a Quad injury can be? The guy even went for a second opinion. Yeah, one of the most competitive guys of this era, is certainly going to sit out the last 4 games and fake severity of his injury. Give me a friggin’ break