NYG have discussed trading Olivier Vernon

In comment 14310924 Dave on the UWS said:

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sounds like something I would say. Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent!

I know there is a different thread on this, but the Giants are seemingly interviewing every draft eligible OL and QB, so if that doesn�t telegraph their needs for you, I don�t know what will. They were horrid in pressuring the QB - with or without OV - and I think, like JPP last year, they�d like to minimize the cap hits down the road while getting rid of a player who is a) not theirs; and b) always injured. So it�s safe to say that if they trade OV, they�d spend the recouped third on a pass rusher, like they did last year

In comment 14310903 jvm52106 said:

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In comment 14310815 Eric from BBI said: Quote: I'd trade him to the Patriots for a hand job. Too soon? That's what she said.

Throw in some eye contact and you got a deal

in the cutting Vernon thread.. Asking price was supposedly a 3rd, obviously that could've changed since then but I did hear something else earlier today.. I won't share that until its a little more clear. Learned my lesson after last offseason.



Is cutting Vernon for another linebacker feasible - ( New Window )

In comment 14310929 Giants38 said:

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In comment 14310924 Dave on the UWS said: Quote: sounds like something I would say. Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent! I know there is a different thread on this, but the Giants are seemingly interviewing every draft eligible OL and QB, so if that doesn�t telegraph their needs for you, I don�t know what will. They were horrid in pressuring the QB - with or without OV - and I think, like JPP last year, they�d like to minimize the cap hits down the road while getting rid of a player who is a) not theirs; and b) always injured. So it�s safe to say that if they trade OV, they�d spend the recouped third on a pass rusher, like they did last year

Um, they are meeting with OL and QBs because that is who showed up to the combine first.

In comment 14310886 JonC said:

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to give up #6 for a player drafted lower, and coming off a poor rookie season. That's poor, desperate negotiating.

Rosen didn't have a poor rookie year. He had year where he just tried to survive and get experience. Call it incomplete.

From the games I tuned in to watch some Rosen action, he looked terrific throwing the ball. Guy is a natural throwing a football.

In comment 14310893 eric2425ny said:

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In comment 14310888 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: In comment 14310886 JonC said: Quote: to give up #6 for a player drafted lower, and coming off a poor rookie season. That's poor, desperate negotiating. JonC It only makes sense if you think the guy is franchise QB. Those of us that like him do. It is a pretty common thing to say around here here that if you really believe he is the guy, cost doesn't matter. I don't care where he was drafted, I care about what I think he will be. I think he will eventually be a top 10 in the NFL starter. Others do not believe this, then 6 is too much. I can play the position, Rosen has elite arm talent IMHO. If you watch some videos of Haskins and the touch he has on the deep ball and the back shoulder fade you may change your mind. That guy is solidly built and definitely has an NFL arm.

I like Haskins and have watched him. I would not be unhappy with Haskins citing precisely the attributes you talk about.

In comment 14310953 Peppers said:

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in the cutting Vernon thread.. Asking price was supposedly a 3rd, obviously that could've changed since then but I did hear something else earlier today.. I won't share that until its a little more clear. Learned my lesson after last offseason. Is cutting Vernon for another linebacker feasible - ( New Window )

Thanks its appreciated.

In comment 14310846 The 12th Man said:

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In comment 14310703 ryanmkeane said: Quote: Rosen had probably the worst OL in football. He was under siege on every down. Glad that excuse works for Rosen on this board but not Eli!

First of all, plenty of people DO use that excuse for Eli, so you can go ahead and pack up your strawman and save it for another day. Secondly, Eli is 38. Most everyone acknowledges that the OL is a major factor in Eli's performance, but 38 year old athletes are almost always candidates for replacement. Especially when the team as a whole is a mess - how long will it be before the team is genuinely good enough to contend? Two years? Three? So Eli will be 40 or 41 by then and long past his current contract.

Last year, Gettleman cut Flowers, Omameh and traded Apple & Snacks. The two OL's sucked and a message had to be sent to the team. Apple wasn't part of the future and he played well enough for the Saints I think. Snacks was playing well but we saved some cap space and got some value for a guy whose knees are shaky. We made these moves because this is a new regime that realized a little too late maybe that we weren't talented enough to compete; hence, a house cleaning.

If you trade Vernon for a 3rd round pick, well, OK. A team that needs a decent pass rusher may bite. Say, one of the playoff teams like the Colts, Saints, KC or San Diego perhaps? Taking a chance on a guy who if healthy can produce may be a good idea.

But if you trade Vernon and you are clearly in rebuild mode, well, do you cut Eli if you draft a QB at #6? I don't think you do.

I honestly believe the Jets will trade out of #3 and some team will take Murray there. And Oakland will trade out of #4 and Haskins will be taken. The Giants will get a DL, maybe DT Oliver who had a monster Junior year and I believe he is on par with Bosa almost in terms of overall talent & upside. Bosa is the best DL though.

Honestly, I'd love if the Giants got a solid DL that could play as a rookie and really excel, surpassing what BJ Hill did last year. We could potentially have a very strong, rotating DL with say a rookie DL; Thompson and Hill starting. McIntosh and Mauro (if re-signed) off the bench, maybe Wynn too. You have to hope 2nd year LB Carter can step up and take Vernon's spot I guess.

The key to our rebuild is solid drafting and only signing that one key UFA (RT D. Williams is my guy here) to plug a hole. The rest of the UFA plugs will likely just be bodies to compete.

This team could be competitive next year if we sign UFA D. Williams; OG Hernandez really improves year 2; OC Hilapio comes back and is an improvement over Pulley; and, we draft well for an OG / OC and maybe even a RT. Eli, if protected, can still produce.

I'm always optimistic but so totally realize this team has more holes than swiss cheese.
Now, lastly, if Haskins is there at #6 and Jax calls do you trade down? I say YES as I'm not really sold on Haskins or Murray for that matter. But if you trade down you better have a player in mind like the TE whose name escapes me (sp Hoshkon or ??). He could step in as a rookie and produce. We shall see.

In comment 14310955 robbieballs2003 said:

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In comment 14310929 Giants38 said: Quote: In comment 14310924 Dave on the UWS said: Quote: sounds like something I would say. Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent! I know there is a different thread on this, but the Giants are seemingly interviewing every draft eligible OL and QB, so if that doesn�t telegraph their needs for you, I don�t know what will. They were horrid in pressuring the QB - with or without OV - and I think, like JPP last year, they�d like to minimize the cap hits down the road while getting rid of a player who is a) not theirs; and b) always injured. So it�s safe to say that if they trade OV, they�d spend the recouped third on a pass rusher, like they did last year Um, they are meeting with OL and QBs because that is who showed up to the combine first.

A couple things: first, you only get 60 Combine interviews. They have used an inordinate amount on those positions. RBs are there too, so are DLs, not so much as a peep about them. A couple RBs thrown in - maybe a TE - but not much. I�m sure DL will come soon.

It�s pretty obvious what our needs are. If you don�t think QB is one, well, I don�t know what to tell you. They aren�t meeting with just about every QB prospect for the sake of doing so and burning interviews.

In comment 14310897 ryanmkeane said:

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trade the 6 for Rosen. if Cardinals think Murray is better and they take him #1, then the other teams have all the leverage when it comes to the trade.

No they don't. They're bidding against other teams, not against the Cardinals releasing Rosen outright. The Cards drafting Murray doesn't affect their leverage at all. In fact, it might increase it since it gives them some explanation other than trying to flip their first round pick after one season.

In comment 14310975 SGMen said:

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Last year, Gettleman cut Flowers, Omameh and traded Apple & Snacks. The two OL's sucked and a message had to be sent to the team. Apple wasn't part of the future and he played well enough for the Saints I think. Snacks was playing well but we saved some cap space and got some value for a guy whose knees are shaky. We made these moves because this is a new regime that realized a little too late maybe that we weren't talented enough to compete; hence, a house cleaning. If you trade Vernon for a 3rd round pick, well, OK. A team that needs a decent pass rusher may bite. Say, one of the playoff teams like the Colts, Saints, KC or San Diego perhaps? Taking a chance on a guy who if healthy can produce may be a good idea. But if you trade Vernon and you are clearly in rebuild mode, well, do you cut Eli if you draft a QB at #6? I don't think you do. I honestly believe the Jets will trade out of #3 and some team will take Murray there. And Oakland will trade out of #4 and Haskins will be taken. The Giants will get a DL, maybe DT Oliver who had a monster Junior year and I believe he is on par with Bosa almost in terms of overall talent & upside. Bosa is the best DL though. Honestly, I'd love if the Giants got a solid DL that could play as a rookie and really excel, surpassing what BJ Hill did last year. We could potentially have a very strong, rotating DL with say a rookie DL; Thompson and Hill starting. McIntosh and Mauro (if re-signed) off the bench, maybe Wynn too. You have to hope 2nd year LB Carter can step up and take Vernon's spot I guess. The key to our rebuild is solid drafting and only signing that one key UFA (RT D. Williams is my guy here) to plug a hole. The rest of the UFA plugs will likely just be bodies to compete. This team could be competitive next year if we sign UFA D. Williams; OG Hernandez really improves year 2; OC Hilapio comes back and is an improvement over Pulley; and, we draft well for an OG / OC and maybe even a RT. Eli, if protected, can still produce. I'm always optimistic but so totally realize this team has more holes than swiss cheese. Now, lastly, if Haskins is there at #6 and Jax calls do you trade down? I say YES as I'm not really sold on Haskins or Murray for that matter. But if you trade down you better have a player in mind like the TE whose name escapes me (sp Hoshkon or ??). He could step in as a rookie and produce. We shall see.

Its possibly to free up money to get another big ticket DE in FA. OV is always hurt and getting older. He was signed by the previous regime with no ties to DG.

DG basically said just like I screamed OL last year , I am screaming defense this year. That very likely means some big name FA on Defense. Not just rookies with a learning curve.

it will be a salary dump. Considering that and that he has not played up to the level of his salary, I doubt the Giants could get more than a 5th rounder for him. Plus, unless one of the teams with an overabundance of salary cap space wants him, I doubt there will be many suitors.

In comment 14310993 Giants38 said:

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In comment 14310955 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: In comment 14310929 Giants38 said: Quote: In comment 14310924 Dave on the UWS said: Quote: sounds like something I would say. Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent! I know there is a different thread on this, but the Giants are seemingly interviewing every draft eligible OL and QB, so if that doesn�t telegraph their needs for you, I don�t know what will. They were horrid in pressuring the QB - with or without OV - and I think, like JPP last year, they�d like to minimize the cap hits down the road while getting rid of a player who is a) not theirs; and b) always injured. So it�s safe to say that if they trade OV, they�d spend the recouped third on a pass rusher, like they did last year Um, they are meeting with OL and QBs because that is who showed up to the combine first. A couple things: first, you only get 60 Combine interviews. They have used an inordinate amount on those positions. RBs are there too, so are DLs, not so much as a peep about them. A couple RBs thrown in - maybe a TE - but not much. I�m sure DL will come soon. It�s pretty obvious what our needs are. If you don�t think QB is one, well, I don�t know what to tell you. They aren�t meeting with just about every QB prospect for the sake of doing so and burning interviews.

The problem is I think you are using Walter Football who has incomplete lists of player meetings and they included the EWSG and the SB. So, just because you see a lot of names doesnt mean we have used all of them up at the combine already.

Yes, OL and QB are glaring needs but going by any incomplete list over many different venues doesn't tell us anything yet until it is complete. With that said, I think our meetings will tell us more under Gettleman than Reese. If I am not mistaken, we always met with players we didn't draft and the ones we did draft were most likely not one of the meetings. I think GoTerps said yesterday that 6 of our draft picks last had meetings with us. Reese used to say when they met with prospects it was because they had questions. If they didn't have questions then then most likely didnt meet. Gettleman obviously seems different.

don't we need him?

Maybe 4th or 5th if that. As bad as he seemed, trading him now wouldnt be wise as putting another hole in a bad defense to fill.

And, releasing him after june would just put another burden of dead money

In comment 14311029 robbieballs2003 said:

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In comment 14310993 Giants38 said: Quote: In comment 14310955 robbieballs2003 said: Quote: In comment 14310929 Giants38 said: Quote: In comment 14310924 Dave on the UWS said: Quote: sounds like something I would say. Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent! I know there is a different thread on this, but the Giants are seemingly interviewing every draft eligible OL and QB, so if that doesn�t telegraph their needs for you, I don�t know what will. They were horrid in pressuring the QB - with or without OV - and I think, like JPP last year, they�d like to minimize the cap hits down the road while getting rid of a player who is a) not theirs; and b) always injured. So it�s safe to say that if they trade OV, they�d spend the recouped third on a pass rusher, like they did last year Um, they are meeting with OL and QBs because that is who showed up to the combine first. A couple things: first, you only get 60 Combine interviews. They have used an inordinate amount on those positions. RBs are there too, so are DLs, not so much as a peep about them. A couple RBs thrown in - maybe a TE - but not much. I�m sure DL will come soon. It�s pretty obvious what our needs are. If you don�t think QB is one, well, I don�t know what to tell you. They aren�t meeting with just about every QB prospect for the sake of doing so and burning interviews. The problem is I think you are using Walter Football who has incomplete lists of player meetings and they included the EWSG and the SB. So, just because you see a lot of names doesnt mean we have used all of them up at the combine already. Yes, OL and QB are glaring needs but going by any incomplete list over many different venues doesn't tell us anything yet until it is complete. With that said, I think our meetings will tell us more under Gettleman than Reese. If I am not mistaken, we always met with players we didn't draft and the ones we did draft were most likely not one of the meetings. I think GoTerps said yesterday that 6 of our draft picks last had meetings with us. Reese used to say when they met with prospects it was because they had questions. If they didn't have questions then then most likely didnt meet. Gettleman obviously seems different.

I agree. I�ve seen the updated lists. You know the two most interviewed positions for us are? OL and QB. Of our 29 interviews, already, 13 were OL and 6 were QB. That�s a staggering number. The other 10 were comprised of 4 RBs, 3 TEs, and 3 WRs.

the Rosen talk. It ain't happening.

In comment 14311027 Beer Man said:

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it will be a salary dump. Considering that and that he has not played up to the level of his salary, I doubt the Giants could get more than a 5th rounder for him. Plus, unless one of the teams with an overabundance of salary cap space wants him, I doubt there will be many suitors.

If the sharp teams are a bunch of analytic donks like a bunch of posters here claim, Vernon will have suitors. He�s a PFF darling with all of his pressures.

He�s only 28 and a few years removed from an all-pro season. If a team flush with cash strikes out in FA or the ER market dries up, they�ll be willing to deal.

but a former work colleague of mine, his wife�s family owns the Rams and the brother of the wife used to a GA at UCLA when Rosen was there.

Said Rosen doesn�t really like football and has passion for many other things besides football.

I�d assume that�s what JonC, etc is referring too.

I think they are going to really focus on D in FA.

In comment 14311032 micky said:

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Maybe 4th or 5th if that. As bad as he seemed, trading him now wouldnt be wise as putting another hole in a bad defense to fill. And, releasing him after june would just put another burden of dead money

If we keep him, he better have a HUGE season along with BJ Hill, D. Thompson, R. Mcintosh, LB Carter and the rookie DL we take with our first pick! The defense has the "potential" to have a strong DL and improved LB if Vernon is healthy; Carter takes over for Martin based on better play not just potential; and, we fix FS.

In comment 14311087 SGMen said:

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In comment 14311032 micky said: Quote: Maybe 4th or 5th if that. As bad as he seemed, trading him now wouldnt be wise as putting another hole in a bad defense to fill. And, releasing him after june would just put another burden of dead money If we keep him, he better have a HUGE season along with BJ Hill, D. Thompson, R. Mcintosh, LB Carter and the rookie DL we take with our first pick! The defense has the "potential" to have a strong DL and improved LB if Vernon is healthy; Carter takes over for Martin based on better play not just potential; and, we fix FS.

Switch out OV for a guy that gets home on the pass rush. We need that bad.

In comment 14311069 McNally's_Nuts said:

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but a former work colleague of mine, his wife�s family owns the Rams and the brother of the wife used to a GA at UCLA when Rosen was there. Said Rosen doesn�t really like football and has passion for many other things besides football. I�d assume that�s what JonC, etc is referring too.

There was an article leading up to the 2018 draft that said something to the same.

In comment 14311092 Pan-handler said:

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In comment 14311087 SGMen said: Quote: In comment 14311032 micky said: Quote: Maybe 4th or 5th if that. As bad as he seemed, trading him now wouldnt be wise as putting another hole in a bad defense to fill. And, releasing him after june would just put another burden of dead money If we keep him, he better have a HUGE season along with BJ Hill, D. Thompson, R. Mcintosh, LB Carter and the rookie DL we take with our first pick! The defense has the "potential" to have a strong DL and improved LB if Vernon is healthy; Carter takes over for Martin based on better play not just potential; and, we fix FS. Switch out OV for a guy that gets home on the pass rush. We need that bad.

It's not something we should do via FA. We need to get out of the premium FA market. It doesn't pay off, it comes up the cap, and it's why we don't get many compensatory picks.

We're better off talking a quantity over quality approach in FA. Use it to build up depth and special teams.

In comment 14311108 Beer Man said:

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In comment 14311069 McNally's_Nuts said: Quote: but a former work colleague of mine, his wife�s family owns the Rams and the brother of the wife used to a GA at UCLA when Rosen was there. Said Rosen doesn�t really like football and has passion for many other things besides football. I�d assume that�s what JonC, etc is referring too. There was an article leading up to the 2018 draft that said something to the same.

Yes, there was. Rosen addressed it.
This is a bunch of BS.

Let him kneel elsewhere ...

In comment 14311125 Go Terps said:

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In comment 14311092 Pan-handler said: Quote: In comment 14311087 SGMen said: Quote: In comment 14311032 micky said: Quote: Maybe 4th or 5th if that. As bad as he seemed, trading him now wouldnt be wise as putting another hole in a bad defense to fill. And, releasing him after june would just put another burden of dead money If we keep him, he better have a HUGE season along with BJ Hill, D. Thompson, R. Mcintosh, LB Carter and the rookie DL we take with our first pick! The defense has the "potential" to have a strong DL and improved LB if Vernon is healthy; Carter takes over for Martin based on better play not just potential; and, we fix FS. Switch out OV for a guy that gets home on the pass rush. We need that bad. It's not something we should do via FA. We need to get out of the premium FA market. It doesn't pay off, it comes up the cap, and it's why we don't get many compensatory picks. We're better off talking a quantity over quality approach in FA. Use it to build up depth and special teams.

Excellent post, this is the best and quickest way to get this team back to relevancy. We have extra picks to move around in the draft to get the guys we need. It takes a few years of good drafting to overcome the lack of depth Gettleman had when he walked in last year.

A team that trades for him has to take his cap hit. I'm thinking it would be less than we gave for Ogletree.

I think that Vernon should have similar value to JPP
Therefore, a third is not unreasonable

.

Field Yates
‏Verified account @FieldYates
3h3 hours ago

The Lions have signed DE Romeo Okawara to a two-year extension. He led the team with 7.5 sacks in 2018 after getting cut by the Giants in the preseason.

In comment 14311237 Eric from BBI said:

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Field Yates ‏Verified account @FieldYates 3h3 hours ago The Lions have signed DE Romeo Okawara to a two-year extension. He led the team with 7.5 sacks in 2018 after getting cut by the Giants in the preseason.

I live in Detroit and my buddies at work always ask me why the hell did we cut Okwara, while being thankful at the same time lol.

Good thing the Giants have the irreplaceable Kareem Martin at 6M this year.

In comment 14311247 christian said:

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Good thing the Giants have the irreplaceable Kareem Martin at 6M this year.

That guy costs more against the cap than Patrick Mahomes.

they HAD to make these kinds of moves.

In comment 14311261 NoGainDayne said:

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they HAD to make these kinds of moves.

Yup -- there was no other choice. The hell with value.

I mean without these signings the Giants might have lost double digit games.

you are getting dangerously close to the dreaded "A-word" when it clearly has no place in discussions like this.

You might wake up a troll.

really need to be told time and again to go fuck yourself?

Yes, the A word. Don't want to go there.

Don't need the A when you've got culture on your mind.

In comment 14311248 Go Terps said:

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In comment 14311247 christian said: Quote: Good thing the Giants have the irreplaceable Kareem Martin at 6M this year. That guy costs more against the cap than Patrick Mahomes.

Not for long ...

1. Can't use the "A-word" even when you explain the relevance

2. Can't joke about potentially using the "A-word"

3. Can't mention Gettleman was fired as a knock against him because "it wasn't his fault"

4. Can't extrapolate people's capabilities based on listed qualifications

5. Can't use what people say in public to infer what they are thinking

6. Can't assume how much game theory someone understands by how well you see it applied, singular articles must instead be used as reference

Are there any other sensitivities I need to keep in mind for the person I've watched insult people for over 15 years?

In comment 14310651 Jon in NYC said:

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for Rosen

Other than the fact we don't have a 3rd round pick... that would be a horrendous trade for the Cardinals. Give up their #10 overall franchise QB (who is on a cheap rookie deal) for an injury-prone $15M vet and a 3rd rounder? When people post things like this I always just want to be like "if the tables were turned would you want the Giants to make that move?" BBI would implode.

#37 and Vernon for Rosen sounds slightly more reasonable.

In comment 14311194 yatqb said:

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A team that trades for him has to take his cap hit. I'm thinking it would be less than we gave for Ogletree.

+1 What team is going to give up anything of value for an oft-injured, overpaid, under-performing player, face it, the giants are probably stuck with OV for one more year.

In comment 14310646 Rjanyg said:

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Get their 3rd round pick, or 4th round pick and use both our early 4ths to move up into the 3rd

Maybe trade him for rosen if they decide to go with murray and bam fixed qb problem. Then can focus draft on o and d line and lbs and s.

In comment 14310921 WillVAB said:

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In comment 14310811 giants#1 said: Quote: I wouldnt mind they cut OV or trade him and pick up Demarcus Lawrence from cowboys since cowboys have to pay zeke, dak, and lawrence. With witten back got to pay that man too. So chance cowboys cant afford all of them. In comment 14310794 WillVAB said: Quote: Zero pass rush and a ton of money. By that logic, so do the Jets. But they're short picks already. Colts were a playoff team last year and probably think getting a viable pass rush will get them over the hump. Vernon had one of his few decent performances vs the Colts last year. If the Colts strike out on pass rushers in FA I could see them being very interested.

considering the situation, really questions your critical thinking skills.

In comment 14311237 Eric from BBI said:

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Field Yates ‏Verified account @FieldYates 3h3 hours ago The Lions have signed DE Romeo Okawara to a two-year extension. He led the team with 7.5 sacks in 2018 after getting cut by the Giants in the preseason.

Reeses FA finds are showing up in a big way on other teams. Harrison, JPP, Okwara.

I think DG had an amazing draft but his FA additions /subtractions left alot to be desired

In comment 14311357 Zeke's Alibi said:

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considering the situation, really questions your critical thinking skills.

It doesn�t mean he didn�t deserve a new job but getting fired is always partially your fault. No way around it. You don�t get very far in life pointing fingers at others and at the very least speaks to his prickly personality which does not help when recruiting technical talent.

In comment 14310649 Anakim said:

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In comment 14310640 90.Cal said: Quote: In comment 14310586 Anakim said: Quote: In comment 14310582 dep026 said: Quote: that Gary, Allen, and Sweat are going to be in the fold at 6. I like Burns more than Sweat. Burns is my #7 guy in this class. Your #7 guy... okay Mayock. Just kidding. I need to see more of Sweat, Burns and Polite.. Thanks to The Draft Network, I have my own 90 man Draft Board

Didnt know you could do that. Pretty cool. Save a final copy and post it for fun this time next year.