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NYG have discussed trading Olivier Vernon

Anakim : 3/1/2019 11:40 am
Mike Garafolo
& #8207;Verified account
@MikeGarafolo

The #Giants have discussed the possibility of trading LB Olivier Vernon, sources tell me and @RapSheet. The big score of free agency a few years ago, Vernon might have played his last down as a Giant.
.  
Anakim : 3/1/2019 11:40 am : link
Ian Rapoport
‏Verified account
@RapSheet

Teams have been made aware of the #Giants willingness to move Vernon. Another top pass-rusher available
Raanan  
jeff57 : 3/1/2019 11:41 am : link
Teams that have communicated with the Giants are under the impression they are trying to trade OLB Olivier Vernon, per sources. If they dont get a deal they could potentially cut Vernon after finding a replacement in free agency.
Makes it more belivable  
dep026 : 3/1/2019 11:41 am : link
that Gary, Allen, and Sweat are going to be in the fold at 6.
.  
Anakim : 3/1/2019 11:42 am : link
Spotrac
‏Verified account
@spotrac

The 28-year-old would leave behind $8M of dead cap to the #Giants per his trade (or release), carrying over salaries & cap figures of $15.5M in both 2019 & 2020 to his new team ($0 GTD).
He still gets pressure  
superspynyg : 3/1/2019 11:42 am : link
but is often injured and comes with a big salary. I cant see anyone wanting him for more than a 6.
RE: Makes it more belivable  
Anakim : 3/1/2019 11:42 am : link
In comment 14310582 dep026 said:
Quote:
that Gary, Allen, and Sweat are going to be in the fold at 6.


I like Burns more than Sweat. Burns is my #7 guy in this class.
I am terrible at guessing trade compensation...  
Capt. Don : 3/1/2019 11:43 am : link
Can we get a 2nd?

What is realistic?
RE: I am terrible at guessing trade compensation...  
dep026 : 3/1/2019 11:43 am : link
In comment 14310589 Capt. Don said:
Quote:
Can we get a 2nd?

What is realistic?


3rd.
Would be very, very happy to get a 3 for this guy!  
M.S. : 3/1/2019 11:43 am : link

I'll even take a high 4.

He always looks great, that is until he tweaks, strains, pulls or breaks something.

And then he is a spectator.

Let the re-build start in earnest!

The Sweat is gonna fill your head  
jeff57 : 3/1/2019 11:44 am : link
.
Dottino on the FAN just said the Giants  
Bubba : 3/1/2019 11:46 am : link
are working on getting a high 3rd round pick for this draft. Maybe this is part of that process.
Id pack his bags for a 2nd  
NoGainDayne : 3/1/2019 11:46 am : link
hes a better deal for another team because we have him a sizable bonus but still not great. Id hope for a 3 but I think a 4 + maybe you could squeeze a conditional pick next year out of sack totals.
15m/yr is reasonable for his talents  
AcesUp : 3/1/2019 11:47 am : link
Giants gotta be trying to recoup that 3 and it's not out of the realm of possibility either.
What took the Giants so long...?  
BamaBlue : 3/1/2019 11:47 am : link
We've been 'talking' about it for 2 years. Another nothing burger for the offseason beat writers who have a deadline with no headline...
RE: The Sweat is gonna fill your head  
rnargi : 3/1/2019 11:48 am : link
In comment 14310596 jeff57 said:
Quote:
.


What's sweet now, turns so sour.
RE: RE: The Sweat is gonna fill your head  
jeff57 : 3/1/2019 11:49 am : link
In comment 14310606 rnargi said:
Quote:
In comment 14310596 jeff57 said:


Quote:


.



What's sweet now, turns so sour.


;)
I'd take a 3rd for him anytime.  
Red Dog : 3/1/2019 11:50 am : link
I'd even take a 4th to get him out of here. He's hurt a lot, is grossly overpaid for what he actually contributes, and they can draft a replacement this year.

IMHO, that is a lot more important than getting a QB this spring. There will be plenty of QBs to take next spring.
How are we gonna fill the void on the injury report?  
bceagle05 : 3/1/2019 11:50 am : link
I mean, uh, the defensive line?
RE: I'd take a 3rd for him anytime.  
jeff57 : 3/1/2019 11:51 am : link
In comment 14310611 Red Dog said:
Quote:
I'd even take a 4th to get him out of here. He's hurt a lot, is grossly overpaid for what he actually contributes, and they can draft a replacement this year.

IMHO, that is a lot more important than getting a QB this spring. There will be plenty of QBs to take next spring.


Yeah, I'd be quite happy with a third.
RE: How are we gonna fill the void on the injury report?  
Anakim : 3/1/2019 11:52 am : link
In comment 14310612 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
I mean, uh, the defensive line?


Not to mention our quota of bonehead penalties
He'd be about 12m in savings  
AcesUp : 3/1/2019 11:53 am : link
Which would cover Collins tag...
I'd  
AcidTest : 3/1/2019 11:54 am : link
take a third, and probably a high fourth. This shouldn't be surprising. The Giants traded JPP for a third, even though he was missing most of his right hand. His cap hit was also a lot more than $8 million. The league is starved for pass rushers so there should be a market for Vernon, even at his salary. His injury history also isn't that bad. The question is the compensation.
RE: Dottino on the FAN just said the Giants  
Jay on the Island : 3/1/2019 11:58 am : link
In comment 14310599 Bubba said:
Quote:
are working on getting a high 3rd round pick for this draft. Maybe this is part of that process.

Interesting if true. Could they be targeting QB Tyree Jackson?
Highly doubt they get a high 3rd for him.  
Brown Recluse : 3/1/2019 11:58 am : link
Maybe a 4th.
RE: RE: Dottino on the FAN just said the Giants  
Anakim : 3/1/2019 12:00 pm : link
In comment 14310625 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 14310599 Bubba said:


Quote:


are working on getting a high 3rd round pick for this draft. Maybe this is part of that process.


Interesting if true. Could they be targeting QB Tyree Jackson?



Haha, I know you'd love that
Pats  
AcesUp : 3/1/2019 12:00 pm : link
I can see Belichick pulling the trigger for a 3 as a cheaper replacement for Flowers, knowing that Flowers will sign a monster deal and he gets that 3 back next year.
RE: Highly doubt they get a high 3rd for him.  
christian : 3/1/2019 12:00 pm : link
In comment 14310627 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
Maybe a 4th.


I don't disagree, but what made the market for JPP significantly better?
Maybe DG can get a 7th for OV.  
The_Boss : 3/1/2019 12:01 pm : link
-
RE: Highly doubt they get a high 3rd for him.  
UConn4523 : 3/1/2019 12:02 pm : link
In comment 14310627 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
Maybe a 4th.


Regardless of him not living up to his contract here, he's still got a great skillset and he's more fairly priced now giving his already paid for bonuses.

He's a better player than Apple and has much more in the tank left than Snacks. If we can't get a 3rd than I don't want him traded.
New team would be responsible for his $15.25M salary  
jeff57 : 3/1/2019 12:02 pm : link
Can't see them getting a third.
RE: RE: Highly doubt they get a high 3rd for him.  
AcidTest : 3/1/2019 12:03 pm : link
In comment 14310633 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14310627 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


Maybe a 4th.



I don't disagree, but what made the market for JPP significantly better?


Better pure pass rusher. Two years removed from the hand injury. TB also plays a 4-3 IIRC, and JPP is a 4-3 DE.
RE: RE: Makes it more belivable  
90.Cal : 3/1/2019 12:03 pm : link
In comment 14310586 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14310582 dep026 said:


Quote:


that Gary, Allen, and Sweat are going to be in the fold at 6.



I like Burns more than Sweat. Burns is my #7 guy in this class.


Your #7 guy... okay Mayock. Just kidding. I need to see more of Sweat, Burns and Polite..
RE: New team would be responsible for his $15.25M salary  
AcesUp : 3/1/2019 12:05 pm : link
In comment 14310638 jeff57 said:
Quote:
Can't see them getting a third.


With no guaranteed money, making it an incredibly workable deal. Mack set a new bar on the market, you'll see these Edge guys getting 20m+ this year.
I would be shocked to get anything above a 6th for OV  
90.Cal : 3/1/2019 12:05 pm : link
But I was shocked when we were able to get a 3rd for JPP so shows how much I know..
RE: Maybe DG can get a 7th for OV.  
90.Cal : 3/1/2019 12:06 pm : link
In comment 14310634 The_Boss said:
Quote:
-


This is exactly what I was thinking..
Trade him to Arizona  
Rjanyg : 3/1/2019 12:07 pm : link
Get their 3rd round pick, or 4th round pick and use both our early 4ths to move up into the 3rd
RE: RE: RE: Makes it more belivable  
Anakim : 3/1/2019 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14310640 90.Cal said:
Quote:
In comment 14310586 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 14310582 dep026 said:


Quote:


that Gary, Allen, and Sweat are going to be in the fold at 6.



I like Burns more than Sweat. Burns is my #7 guy in this class.



Your #7 guy... okay Mayock. Just kidding. I need to see more of Sweat, Burns and Polite..


Thanks to The Draft Network, I have my own 90 man Draft Board
Vernon and a 3rd  
Jon in NYC : 3/1/2019 12:10 pm : link
for Rosen
Might as well trade him  
GiantsRage2007 : 3/1/2019 12:11 pm : link
How many wins is he worth?

Or Collins for that matter

We're prob a 4-5 win team with both of them or without.
RE: Vernon and a 3rd  
dep026 : 3/1/2019 12:11 pm : link
In comment 14310651 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
for Rosen


We dont have a 3rd. Thats the problem.
a 5th for Vernon  
I Love Clams Casino : 3/1/2019 12:13 pm : link
We love late odd numbered rounds
bad timing...  
Dan in the Springs : 3/1/2019 12:13 pm : link
with the draft so loaded at defense.
Rosen and a 4th or 5th  
ryanmkeane : 3/1/2019 12:13 pm : link
for Vernon and our 2nd. Sign me the hell up
It  
AcidTest : 3/1/2019 12:15 pm : link
sounds like the Giants are committed to moving on from Vernon, whether by trade or cut, to free up cap space. DG mentioned the need for cap space in his press conference. But I'd be surprised if they got a third for Vernon. If the Giants want a high third, they will have to trade down in the first round.
RE: RE: I am terrible at guessing trade compensation...  
bw in dc : 3/1/2019 12:16 pm : link
In comment 14310593 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14310589 Capt. Don said:


Quote:


Can we get a 2nd?

What is realistic?



3rd.


Really? Why?

I'd take that in a NY minute, but I think we're talking 4th or later.

I think we should still kick the tires on re-doing his contract...
If a contender  
ryanmkeane : 3/1/2019 12:17 pm : link
is dumb enough to give us a 2nd...that'd be a great win. A third would be awesome. Most likely it's a 4th
Vernon  
TommyWiseau : 3/1/2019 12:20 pm : link
and a 2nd for Rosen, one could dream
A 3rd for Vernon seems reasonable  
ZogZerg : 3/1/2019 12:20 pm : link
He is still a really good player.
RE: Vernon and a 3rd  
giants#1 : 3/1/2019 12:23 pm : link
In comment 14310651 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
for Rosen


We don't have a 3rd. And I prefer Vernon and #6 for #1!
RE: RE: I am terrible at guessing trade compensation...  
LauderdaleMatty : 3/1/2019 12:23 pm : link
In comment 14310593 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14310589 Capt. Don said:


Quote:


Can we get a 2nd?

What is realistic?



3rd.


Cant see anyone wasting a 3 on a guy who cant stay healthy. And when he is healthy way to up and down. Hes never been a big sack # guy either.

First year he was very good. The last two for what he was paid have been a disaster. Also I cant see anyone taking him on that current deal. Hes going to have to negitioate a new one IMO w incentives built in
RE: RE: RE: Highly doubt they get a high 3rd for him.  
Toth029 : 3/1/2019 12:24 pm : link
In comment 14310639 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 14310633 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 14310627 Brown Recluse said:


Quote:


Maybe a 4th.



I don't disagree, but what made the market for JPP significantly better?



Better pure pass rusher. Two years removed from the hand injury. TB also plays a 4-3 IIRC, and JPP is a 4-3 DE.

Funny because with Arians, Tampa will now run a 3-4.
Something to consider  
GiantGrit : 3/1/2019 12:24 pm : link
The FA edge rush class was supposed to be deep. Still is, but Lawrence, Graham and Ford are probably not going to hit the market now. Vernon is still only 28. Injuries aside, he is a good value at that contract since the price for pass rushing is continuing to grow.

With all that said, i don't see them getting a high 3rd unless they swap a later pick this year or in the future.
RE: Vernon  
eric2425ny : 3/1/2019 12:25 pm : link
In comment 14310675 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
and a 2nd for Rosen, one could dream


So a top 6 pick in the second round and a solid pass rusher for a QB who looked pretty mediocre in his first year. No thanks. The Rosen love doesnt make a lot of sense to me. Many have complained about Elis lack of mobility for at least the last five years and how we need a QB who can move better. Rosen is another statue, a statue that has had injury issues throughout his career and is not thick skinned enough to be able to handle the NY media.
eric  
ryanmkeane : 3/1/2019 12:33 pm : link
Rosen had probably the worst OL in football. He was under siege on every down.
RE: RE: Vernon  
FStubbs : 3/1/2019 12:34 pm : link
In comment 14310693 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 14310675 TommyWiseau said:


Quote:


and a 2nd for Rosen, one could dream



So a top 6 pick in the second round and a solid pass rusher for a QB who looked pretty mediocre in his first year. No thanks. The Rosen love doesnt make a lot of sense to me. Many have complained about Elis lack of mobility for at least the last five years and how we need a QB who can move better. Rosen is another statue, a statue that has had injury issues throughout his career and is not thick skinned enough to be able to handle the NY media.


IF you like Rosen, you make that deal and you run.

If you don't like Rosen, then it's a waste.

For what it's worth, Rosen is more mobile than Eli and he survived behind Arizona's line which was worse than ours. He didn't prove much last year admittedly but he did prove he can hold up.
So to everyone defending Vernon's inexcusable play,  
SHO'NUFF : 3/1/2019 12:35 pm : link
say it with me: "I was wrong". I told you the guy blew and management feels the same.
RE: Pats  
Simms11 : 3/1/2019 12:35 pm : link
In comment 14310631 AcesUp said:
Quote:
I can see Belichick pulling the trigger for a 3 as a cheaper replacement for Flowers, knowing that Flowers will sign a monster deal and he gets that 3 back next year.


It would then have to be the Pats 2nd round pick as that's essentially a high 3rd round pick.
Last year we got a 3rd for JPP  
Giants38 : 3/1/2019 12:44 pm : link
Why cant we get a 3rd for OV? His cap hits are more reasonable for the team acquiring him because the guaranteed money - and payments - are owed by the Giants. The team acquiring OV would be doing so risk free and could cut him at any time without incurring a penalty.
RE: So to everyone defending Vernon's inexcusable play,  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/1/2019 12:44 pm : link
In comment 14310708 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
say it with me: "I was wrong". I told you the guy blew and management feels the same.


If management felt the same he would've been gone in last year's roster purge with everyone else.

Weird place to be demanding people give you a pat on the back.
If we can recoup the 3rd for beal in the supplemental I'd move Vernon  
Torrag : 3/1/2019 12:45 pm : link
the guy can make some plays but probably doesn't fit the locker room DG and Shurmur are building and he's oft injured.
...  
christian : 3/1/2019 12:48 pm : link
I'd happily move a 4th and Vernon for a high 3rd.
I doubt we could get a 2 for him  
Giants38 : 3/1/2019 12:51 pm : link
Certainly not a high second. But if we could, that would give us the draft capital to offer the Jets what they gave the Colts last year to move up from 6 to 3 - two 2018 2nds and a 2019 2nd. Obviously wed be offering two 2019 2nds and a 2020 2nd, but you get the point.
What about moving  
TommyWiseau : 3/1/2019 12:51 pm : link
Vernon for a 3rd and 6th in 2020? Keep in mind future picks are viewed as being worth less by NFL GMs.
Lucky to get a 3rd more likely a 4th  
GFAN52 : 3/1/2019 12:52 pm : link
.
Arizona has the first pick of day 3  
Rjanyg : 3/1/2019 12:52 pm : link
If you could get the first pick of day 3 which is a 4th round pick you would have your pick of the litter.

Not a bad place to be.

I would call AZ first.
Why does the entire world always know the Giants  
arniefez : 3/1/2019 12:54 pm : link
Business? Trade Vernon, let Collins walk, pass on Murray, trade up for Haskins? The Giants are a clown show now.
RE: So to everyone defending Vernon's inexcusable play,  
Rocky369 : 3/1/2019 12:55 pm : link
In comment 14310708 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
say it with me: "I was wrong". I told you the guy blew and management feels the same.
You were wrong.
RE: Why does the entire world always know the Giants  
TommyWiseau : 3/1/2019 12:56 pm : link
In comment 14310741 arniefez said:
Quote:
Business? Trade Vernon, let Collins walk, pass on Murray, trade up for Haskins? The Giants are a clown show now.


well if you are trying to move Venon you kind of need to call other teams and let them know, hence why the information is now public
RE: Why does the entire world always know the Giants  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/1/2019 12:57 pm : link
In comment 14310741 arniefez said:
Quote:
Business? Trade Vernon, let Collins walk, pass on Murray, trade up for Haskins? The Giants are a clown show now.


Every team has a rumor mill. You're assuming everything that gets reported as rumor is factual.
Id take a third or fourth for him  
eric2425ny : 3/1/2019 1:02 pm : link
Gettleman is doing what almost every GM does in their first few years taking over a roster. Make trades, take cap hits, etc to start over. Its the only way to remake the team. Hes stocking up these draft picks to give him ammo to slide around the draft board and get the guys he wants. I dont really view any of these trades, particularly Snacks and potentially Vernon as being an indication that they are malcontents or bad players.
RE: Arizona has the first pick of day 3  
Jim in Tampa : 3/1/2019 1:02 pm : link
In comment 14310740 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
If you could get the first pick of day 3 which is a 4th round pick you would have your pick of the litter.

Not a bad place to be.

I would call AZ first.

A team has their pick of the litter with every draft choice they make.
I think if they trade OV  
MotownGIANTS : 3/1/2019 1:06 pm : link
then Collins may have a better chance at staying ...
I think if they trade OV  
MotownGIANTS : 3/1/2019 1:07 pm : link
then Collins may have a better chance at staying ... With more $$$ we can get a legit vet FS and let Collins play his natural spot and to his strengths.
PLEASE  
Jim Bur(n)t : 3/1/2019 1:07 pm : link
Get this done... high/mid 3rd = Happy
No Brainer  
WillVAB : 3/1/2019 1:17 pm : link
Worst contract on the team.
RE: RE: Arizona has the first pick of day 3  
Jimmy Googs : 3/1/2019 1:23 pm : link
In comment 14310752 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 14310740 Rjanyg said:


Quote:


If you could get the first pick of day 3 which is a 4th round pick you would have your pick of the litter.

Not a bad place to be.

I would call AZ first.


A team has their pick of the litter with every draft choice they make.


Beat me to the punch...
Colts make a ton of sense  
WillVAB : 3/1/2019 1:27 pm : link
Zero pass rush and a ton of money.
$11.5m in cap saivngs  
BillT : 3/1/2019 1:40 pm : link
$8m in dead money either traded or cut.
Not sure why Arizona  
ryanmkeane : 3/1/2019 1:45 pm : link
would want him. They are rebuilding.
The failure of the 2016 spending spree should be a teaching tool  
Go Terps : 3/1/2019 1:47 pm : link
The impacts of those types of mistakes ripple out over many years.
I wonder if something  
Chris684 : 3/1/2019 1:49 pm : link
with Arizona can be worked out. Obviously by going with Murray over Rosen they'd be passing up some premier pass rush talents to add opposite Chandler Jones.

Rosen plus a 4th for Vernon and a 2nd?

NYG would then have 3 4ths including the first pick in that round which they could take 2 of and trade back into the 3rd round if they wanted to.
RE: Colts make a ton of sense  
giants#1 : 3/1/2019 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14310794 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Zero pass rush and a ton of money.


By that logic, so do the Jets. But they're short picks already.
RE: The failure of the 2016 spending spree should be a teaching tool  
eric2425ny : 3/1/2019 1:50 pm : link
In comment 14310808 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The impacts of those types of mistakes ripple out over many years.


Exactly. This is why it becomes challenging to resign guys like Collins. So much money invested in above average but not great players.
....  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/1/2019 1:51 pm : link
I'd trade him to the Patriots for a hand job.


Too soon?
Would love to get  
Metnut : 3/1/2019 1:52 pm : link
a 3rd or 4th from the Colts for him.
RE: I wonder if something  
eric2425ny : 3/1/2019 1:52 pm : link
In comment 14310809 Chris684 said:
Quote:
with Arizona can be worked out. Obviously by going with Murray over Rosen they'd be passing up some premier pass rush talents to add opposite Chandler Jones.

Rosen plus a 4th for Vernon and a 2nd?

NYG would then have 3 4ths including the first pick in that round which they could take 2 of and trade back into the 3rd round if they wanted to.


Way too much for the Giants to give up. That second round pick is a premium pick. I wouldnt trade that pick alone for Rosen, let alone giving them Vernon too.
eric you really wouldn't  
ryanmkeane : 3/1/2019 1:59 pm : link
trade our 2nd round pick for Josh Rosen?
RE: Why does the entire world always know the Giants  
TrueBlue56 : 3/1/2019 2:02 pm : link
In comment 14310741 arniefez said:
Quote:
Business? Trade Vernon, let Collins walk, pass on Murray, trade up for Haskins? The Giants are a clown show now.


Well, if you seem to know what the giants will or won't do, then please by all means enlighten us. We will see just how much you think you know when the dust settles.

Don't wait until the giants actually make their moves and say they telegraphed their moves and we all knew all along. Post it now

Is it Collins will be let go, we won't draft Murray, but we will draft Haskins? Vernon will be traded? Anything else?

You know the media said last year that Beckham was going to hold out (and he didn't), then they said he was going to be traded to the rams (he wasn't). The media has been wrong lots of times, but continue on
RE: eric you really wouldn't  
eric2425ny : 3/1/2019 2:03 pm : link
In comment 14310829 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
trade our 2nd round pick for Josh Rosen?


No, just not sold on him at this point. I know the Cardinals were a bad team last year, but from the times I saw him play I wasnt that impressed. He had a total QBR of 25.9 last year, 33rd in the NFL. Id rather go after Haskins.
RE: eric  
The 12th Man : 3/1/2019 2:10 pm : link
In comment 14310703 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Rosen had probably the worst OL in football. He was under siege on every down.


Glad that excuse works for Rosen on this board but not Eli!
RE: Vernon  
Trainmaster : 3/1/2019 2:10 pm : link
Id love to get a third, but an early 4th is likely the best we can get. One less kneeler on the team is an added bonus.
...  
BleedBlue : 3/1/2019 2:17 pm : link
thecards make SO MUCH SENSE.

they desperately need a pass rusher opposite jones. vernon is very little risk in terms of money for the cards.

they have #1 and would miss out on a pass rusher if they love murray. they could trade us rosen and get a solid pass rusher in return in vernon.

IF they love murray, we are a great trade partner because we have a pass rusher for sale and they would have a young QB for sale.


Rosen

for

vernon #38 and a 2020 3rd/4th

does that get it done?
RE: RE: Vernon  
MotownGIANTS : 3/1/2019 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14310847 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
Id love to get a third, but an early 4th is likely the best we can get. One less kneeler on the team is an added bonus.



LOL .... casue we know how BBI feels about the injustices against minorities and those on the lower rungs of the economic ladder.
RE: ...  
dep026 : 3/1/2019 2:18 pm : link
In comment 14310853 BleedBlue said:
Quote:
thecards make SO MUCH SENSE.

they desperately need a pass rusher opposite jones. vernon is very little risk in terms of money for the cards.

they have #1 and would miss out on a pass rusher if they love murray. they could trade us rosen and get a solid pass rusher in return in vernon.

IF they love murray, we are a great trade partner because we have a pass rusher for sale and they would have a young QB for sale.


Rosen

for

vernon #38 and a 2020 3rd/4th

does that get it done?


Lets hope not. We get ROBBED in that scenario.
Rosen fans  
JonC : 3/1/2019 2:19 pm : link
need to give up.
RE: RE: eric  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/1/2019 2:20 pm : link
In comment 14310846 The 12th Man said:
Quote:
In comment 14310703 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


Rosen had probably the worst OL in football. He was under siege on every down.



Glad that excuse works for Rosen on this board but not Eli!


One's a rookie and one's a 15 year veteran. The standard is hardly the same.
RE: Id take a third or fourth for him  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 3/1/2019 2:21 pm : link
In comment 14310750 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
Gettleman is doing what almost every GM does in their first few years taking over a roster. Make trades, take cap hits, etc to start over. Its the only way to remake the team. Hes stocking up these draft picks to give him ammo to slide around the draft board and get the guys he wants. I dont really view any of these trades, particularly Snacks and potentially Vernon as being an indication that they are malcontents or bad players.


Bad players? No.

But Snacks, DRC, JPP. and Apple were absolutely locker room cleansing. Malcontents, head cases, and/or poor leaders.
RE: Rosen fans  
eric2425ny : 3/1/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14310857 JonC said:
Quote:
need to give up.


Lol. This is almost comical at this point. We have drafted guys like Snee and Collins in the early second round in the past. Thats a really valuable pick to give up for a QB that may not pan out. Hes not a draft pick, we got to see on year of him in action, and it wasnt pretty, bad team or not.
eric  
ryanmkeane : 3/1/2019 2:36 pm : link
based on that logic, we should have given up on Eli Manning after 1 year. He was worse than Rosen was his rookie season, and Eli had a better team.
Eric  
ArlingtonMike : 3/1/2019 2:39 pm : link
Id negotiate for a 7th with the Pats and a reach around.
RE: eric  
eric2425ny : 3/1/2019 2:39 pm : link
In comment 14310874 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
based on that logic, we should have given up on Eli Manning after 1 year. He was worse than Rosen was his rookie season, and Eli had a better team.


Good article on his performance vs other rookie QBs
Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Rosen fans  
Thegratefulhead : 3/1/2019 2:41 pm : link
In comment 14310867 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 14310857 JonC said:


Quote:


need to give up.



Lol. This is almost comical at this point. We have drafted guys like Snee and Collins in the early second round in the past. Thats a really valuable pick to give up for a QB that may not pan out. Hes not a draft pick, we got to see on year of him in action, and it wasnt pretty, bad team or not.
His first year was ~ same as Eli's on a worse football team. I would give 6 for him in a heartbeat. If we could package Vernon and get him and keep 6, we would be stealing form the Cardinals. I think he is a better pure passer than Haskins and has 1 year of NFL experience. All of the people that would get bent because of his signing is not important at all but would be very satisfying.
It doesn't make sense  
JonC : 3/1/2019 2:45 pm : link
to give up #6 for a player drafted lower, and coming off a poor rookie season. That's poor, desperate negotiating.
RE: It doesn't make sense  
Thegratefulhead : 3/1/2019 2:49 pm : link
In comment 14310886 JonC said:
Quote:
to give up #6 for a player drafted lower, and coming off a poor rookie season. That's poor, desperate negotiating.
JonC It only makes sense if you think the guy is franchise QB. Those of us that like him do. It is a pretty common thing to say around here here that if you really believe he is the guy, cost doesn't matter. I don't care where he was drafted, I care about what I think he will be. I think he will eventually be a top 10 in the NFL starter. Others do not believe this, then 6 is too much. I can play the position, Rosen has elite arm talent IMHO.
From many accounts  
joeinpa : 3/1/2019 2:52 pm : link
Gettleman seems determine to address the quarterback issue sooner rather than later.

Dumping guys like Snacks and now maybe Vernon would seem to indicate he's thinking beyond just next season's improvement.

I'm thinking more and more he is looking to trade up in this draft to get his quarterback, and accumulate enough capital to trade again into the first round to address one of the lines.
RE: RE: It doesn't make sense  
eric2425ny : 3/1/2019 2:54 pm : link
In comment 14310888 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 14310886 JonC said:


Quote:


to give up #6 for a player drafted lower, and coming off a poor rookie season. That's poor, desperate negotiating.

JonC It only makes sense if you think the guy is franchise QB. Those of us that like him do. It is a pretty common thing to say around here here that if you really believe he is the guy, cost doesn't matter. I don't care where he was drafted, I care about what I think he will be. I think he will eventually be a top 10 in the NFL starter. Others do not believe this, then 6 is too much. I can play the position, Rosen has elite arm talent IMHO.


If you watch some videos of Haskins and the touch he has on the deep ball and the back shoulder fade you may change your mind. That guy is solidly built and definitely has an NFL arm.
RE: Vernon  
Dinger : 3/1/2019 2:54 pm : link
In comment 14310675 TommyWiseau said:
Quote:
and a 2nd for Rosen, one could dream


this is what I was thinking.....doubtful.
Giants wouldn't  
ryanmkeane : 3/1/2019 2:57 pm : link
trade the 6 for Rosen. if Cardinals think Murray is better and they take him #1, then the other teams have all the leverage when it comes to the trade.
RE: I think if they trade OV  
DavidinBMNY : 3/1/2019 3:00 pm : link
In comment 14310759 MotownGIANTS said:
Quote:
then Collins may have a better chance at staying ... With more $$$ we can get a legit vet FS and let Collins play his natural spot and to his strengths.
Who would want him? At that contract? He's a good player who was overpaid and can't stay healthy.
RE: Why does the entire world always know the Giants  
Joey in VA : 3/1/2019 3:02 pm : link
In comment 14310741 arniefez said:
Quote:
Business? Trade Vernon, let Collins walk, pass on Murray, trade up for Haskins? The Giants are a clown show now.
There is a guy who works for the Giants who has a friend in the media.
RE: ....  
jvm52106 : 3/1/2019 3:03 pm : link
In comment 14310815 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I'd trade him to the Patriots for a hand job.


Too soon?


That's what she said.
RE: ....  
superspynyg : 3/1/2019 3:03 pm : link
In comment 14310815 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I'd trade him to the Patriots for a hand job.


Too soon?


Cant Krafts hands are in evidence right now
Vernon got pressure  
bc4life : 3/1/2019 3:04 pm : link
worked hard. for his contract you want to see him in double digit sacks. and he was hurt a lot.

Think the Rosen talk is wasted. Cards won't trade him .
RE: Rosen fans  
Dinger : 3/1/2019 3:06 pm : link
In comment 14310857 JonC said:
Quote:
need to give up.


I am not a Rosen fan by any means, BUT if they could dump OV, get a young QB with potential and still get an edge or BPA with #6 then youd think it was a win. I don't think it will happen. Too much press about cards taking murray and I'm sorry, but I just don't think a QB his size cuts it in the NFL. At least not with a long shelf life.
RE: Vernon got pressure  
DavidinBMNY : 3/1/2019 3:10 pm : link
In comment 14310905 bc4life said:
Quote:
worked hard. for his contract you want to see him in double digit sacks. and he was hurt a lot.

Think the Rosen talk is wasted. Cards won't trade him .
Not so fast. Kingsberry loves Murray. I'm not sure Giants would be interested in Rosen but it's not beyond all reason to think Rosen won't be dealt.
RE: RE: Colts make a ton of sense  
WillVAB : 3/1/2019 3:16 pm : link
In comment 14310811 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14310794 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Zero pass rush and a ton of money.



By that logic, so do the Jets. But they're short picks already.


Colts were a playoff team last year and probably think getting a viable pass rush will get them over the hump. Vernon had one of his few decent performances vs the Colts last year. If the Colts strike out on pass rushers in FA I could see them being very interested.
Eric my friend, shame on you :)  
Dave on the UWS : 3/1/2019 3:18 pm : link
sounds like something I would say.
Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent!
RE: ....  
Beezer : 3/1/2019 3:22 pm : link
In comment 14310815 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
I'd trade him to the Patriots for a hand job.


Too soon?


BAN HIM!!!!!!!!

lolol
RE: Eric my friend, shame on you :)  
Giants38 : 3/1/2019 3:24 pm : link
In comment 14310924 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
sounds like something I would say.
Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent!


I know there is a different thread on this, but the Giants are seemingly interviewing every draft eligible OL and QB, so if that doesnt telegraph their needs for you, I dont know what will. They were horrid in pressuring the QB - with or without OV - and I think, like JPP last year, theyd like to minimize the cap hits down the road while getting rid of a player who is a) not theirs; and b) always injured. So its safe to say that if they trade OV, theyd spend the recouped third on a pass rusher, like they did last year
RE: RE: ....  
chopperhatch : 3/1/2019 3:51 pm : link
In comment 14310903 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 14310815 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


I'd trade him to the Patriots for a hand job.


Too soon?



That's what she said.


Throw in some eye contact and you got a deal
Mentioned this a few weeks ago  
Peppers : 3/1/2019 3:55 pm : link
in the cutting Vernon thread.. Asking price was supposedly a 3rd, obviously that could've changed since then but I did hear something else earlier today.. I won't share that until its a little more clear. Learned my lesson after last offseason.



Is cutting Vernon for another linebacker feasible - ( New Window )
RE: RE: Eric my friend, shame on you :)  
robbieballs2003 : 3/1/2019 3:55 pm : link
In comment 14310929 Giants38 said:
Quote:
In comment 14310924 Dave on the UWS said:


Quote:


sounds like something I would say.
Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent!



I know there is a different thread on this, but the Giants are seemingly interviewing every draft eligible OL and QB, so if that doesnt telegraph their needs for you, I dont know what will. They were horrid in pressuring the QB - with or without OV - and I think, like JPP last year, theyd like to minimize the cap hits down the road while getting rid of a player who is a) not theirs; and b) always injured. So its safe to say that if they trade OV, theyd spend the recouped third on a pass rusher, like they did last year


Um, they are meeting with OL and QBs because that is who showed up to the combine first.
RE: It doesn't make sense  
bw in dc : 3/1/2019 4:00 pm : link
In comment 14310886 JonC said:
Quote:
to give up #6 for a player drafted lower, and coming off a poor rookie season. That's poor, desperate negotiating.


Rosen didn't have a poor rookie year. He had year where he just tried to survive and get experience. Call it incomplete.

From the games I tuned in to watch some Rosen action, he looked terrific throwing the ball. Guy is a natural throwing a football.
RE: RE: RE: It doesn't make sense  
Thegratefulhead : 3/1/2019 4:10 pm : link
In comment 14310893 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
In comment 14310888 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


In comment 14310886 JonC said:


Quote:


to give up #6 for a player drafted lower, and coming off a poor rookie season. That's poor, desperate negotiating.

JonC It only makes sense if you think the guy is franchise QB. Those of us that like him do. It is a pretty common thing to say around here here that if you really believe he is the guy, cost doesn't matter. I don't care where he was drafted, I care about what I think he will be. I think he will eventually be a top 10 in the NFL starter. Others do not believe this, then 6 is too much. I can play the position, Rosen has elite arm talent IMHO.



If you watch some videos of Haskins and the touch he has on the deep ball and the back shoulder fade you may change your mind. That guy is solidly built and definitely has an NFL arm.
I like Haskins and have watched him. I would not be unhappy with Haskins citing precisely the attributes you talk about.
RE: Mentioned this a few weeks ago  
GiantGrit : 3/1/2019 4:13 pm : link
In comment 14310953 Peppers said:
Quote:
in the cutting Vernon thread.. Asking price was supposedly a 3rd, obviously that could've changed since then but I did hear something else earlier today.. I won't share that until its a little more clear. Learned my lesson after last offseason.

Is cutting Vernon for another linebacker feasible - ( New Window )


Thanks its appreciated.
RE: RE: eric  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/1/2019 4:18 pm : link
In comment 14310846 The 12th Man said:
Quote:
In comment 14310703 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


Rosen had probably the worst OL in football. He was under siege on every down.



Glad that excuse works for Rosen on this board but not Eli!

First of all, plenty of people DO use that excuse for Eli, so you can go ahead and pack up your strawman and save it for another day. Secondly, Eli is 38. Most everyone acknowledges that the OL is a major factor in Eli's performance, but 38 year old athletes are almost always candidates for replacement. Especially when the team as a whole is a mess - how long will it be before the team is genuinely good enough to contend? Two years? Three? So Eli will be 40 or 41 by then and long past his current contract.
My take: time to start over by getting value for who you can  
SGMen : 3/1/2019 4:22 pm : link
Last year, Gettleman cut Flowers, Omameh and traded Apple & Snacks. The two OL's sucked and a message had to be sent to the team. Apple wasn't part of the future and he played well enough for the Saints I think. Snacks was playing well but we saved some cap space and got some value for a guy whose knees are shaky. We made these moves because this is a new regime that realized a little too late maybe that we weren't talented enough to compete; hence, a house cleaning.

If you trade Vernon for a 3rd round pick, well, OK. A team that needs a decent pass rusher may bite. Say, one of the playoff teams like the Colts, Saints, KC or San Diego perhaps? Taking a chance on a guy who if healthy can produce may be a good idea.

But if you trade Vernon and you are clearly in rebuild mode, well, do you cut Eli if you draft a QB at #6? I don't think you do.

I honestly believe the Jets will trade out of #3 and some team will take Murray there. And Oakland will trade out of #4 and Haskins will be taken. The Giants will get a DL, maybe DT Oliver who had a monster Junior year and I believe he is on par with Bosa almost in terms of overall talent & upside. Bosa is the best DL though.

Honestly, I'd love if the Giants got a solid DL that could play as a rookie and really excel, surpassing what BJ Hill did last year. We could potentially have a very strong, rotating DL with say a rookie DL; Thompson and Hill starting. McIntosh and Mauro (if re-signed) off the bench, maybe Wynn too. You have to hope 2nd year LB Carter can step up and take Vernon's spot I guess.

The key to our rebuild is solid drafting and only signing that one key UFA (RT D. Williams is my guy here) to plug a hole. The rest of the UFA plugs will likely just be bodies to compete.

This team could be competitive next year if we sign UFA D. Williams; OG Hernandez really improves year 2; OC Hilapio comes back and is an improvement over Pulley; and, we draft well for an OG / OC and maybe even a RT. Eli, if protected, can still produce.

I'm always optimistic but so totally realize this team has more holes than swiss cheese.
Now, lastly, if Haskins is there at #6 and Jax calls do you trade down? I say YES as I'm not really sold on Haskins or Murray for that matter. But if you trade down you better have a player in mind like the TE whose name escapes me (sp Hoshkon or ??). He could step in as a rookie and produce. We shall see.
RE: RE: RE: Eric my friend, shame on you :)  
Giants38 : 3/1/2019 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14310955 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14310929 Giants38 said:


Quote:


In comment 14310924 Dave on the UWS said:


Quote:


sounds like something I would say.
Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent!



I know there is a different thread on this, but the Giants are seemingly interviewing every draft eligible OL and QB, so if that doesnt telegraph their needs for you, I dont know what will. They were horrid in pressuring the QB - with or without OV - and I think, like JPP last year, theyd like to minimize the cap hits down the road while getting rid of a player who is a) not theirs; and b) always injured. So its safe to say that if they trade OV, theyd spend the recouped third on a pass rusher, like they did last year



Um, they are meeting with OL and QBs because that is who showed up to the combine first.


A couple things: first, you only get 60 Combine interviews. They have used an inordinate amount on those positions. RBs are there too, so are DLs, not so much as a peep about them. A couple RBs thrown in - maybe a TE - but not much. Im sure DL will come soon.

Its pretty obvious what our needs are. If you dont think QB is one, well, I dont know what to tell you. They arent meeting with just about every QB prospect for the sake of doing so and burning interviews.
RE: Giants wouldn't  
Gatorade Dunk : 3/1/2019 4:37 pm : link
In comment 14310897 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
trade the 6 for Rosen. if Cardinals think Murray is better and they take him #1, then the other teams have all the leverage when it comes to the trade.

No they don't. They're bidding against other teams, not against the Cardinals releasing Rosen outright. The Cards drafting Murray doesn't affect their leverage at all. In fact, it might increase it since it gives them some explanation other than trying to flip their first round pick after one season.
RE: My take: time to start over by getting value for who you can  
Pan-handler : 3/1/2019 4:39 pm : link
In comment 14310975 SGMen said:
Quote:
Last year, Gettleman cut Flowers, Omameh and traded Apple & Snacks. The two OL's sucked and a message had to be sent to the team. Apple wasn't part of the future and he played well enough for the Saints I think. Snacks was playing well but we saved some cap space and got some value for a guy whose knees are shaky. We made these moves because this is a new regime that realized a little too late maybe that we weren't talented enough to compete; hence, a house cleaning.

If you trade Vernon for a 3rd round pick, well, OK. A team that needs a decent pass rusher may bite. Say, one of the playoff teams like the Colts, Saints, KC or San Diego perhaps? Taking a chance on a guy who if healthy can produce may be a good idea.

But if you trade Vernon and you are clearly in rebuild mode, well, do you cut Eli if you draft a QB at #6? I don't think you do.

I honestly believe the Jets will trade out of #3 and some team will take Murray there. And Oakland will trade out of #4 and Haskins will be taken. The Giants will get a DL, maybe DT Oliver who had a monster Junior year and I believe he is on par with Bosa almost in terms of overall talent & upside. Bosa is the best DL though.

Honestly, I'd love if the Giants got a solid DL that could play as a rookie and really excel, surpassing what BJ Hill did last year. We could potentially have a very strong, rotating DL with say a rookie DL; Thompson and Hill starting. McIntosh and Mauro (if re-signed) off the bench, maybe Wynn too. You have to hope 2nd year LB Carter can step up and take Vernon's spot I guess.

The key to our rebuild is solid drafting and only signing that one key UFA (RT D. Williams is my guy here) to plug a hole. The rest of the UFA plugs will likely just be bodies to compete.

This team could be competitive next year if we sign UFA D. Williams; OG Hernandez really improves year 2; OC Hilapio comes back and is an improvement over Pulley; and, we draft well for an OG / OC and maybe even a RT. Eli, if protected, can still produce.

I'm always optimistic but so totally realize this team has more holes than swiss cheese.
Now, lastly, if Haskins is there at #6 and Jax calls do you trade down? I say YES as I'm not really sold on Haskins or Murray for that matter. But if you trade down you better have a player in mind like the TE whose name escapes me (sp Hoshkon or ??). He could step in as a rookie and produce. We shall see.


Its possibly to free up money to get another big ticket DE in FA. OV is always hurt and getting older. He was signed by the previous regime with no ties to DG.

DG basically said just like I screamed OL last year , I am screaming defense this year. That very likely means some big name FA on Defense. Not just rookies with a learning curve.
At $15.5M per  
Beer Man : 3/1/2019 5:13 pm : link
it will be a salary dump. Considering that and that he has not played up to the level of his salary, I doubt the Giants could get more than a 5th rounder for him. Plus, unless one of the teams with an overabundance of salary cap space wants him, I doubt there will be many suitors.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Eric my friend, shame on you :)  
robbieballs2003 : 3/1/2019 5:13 pm : link
In comment 14310993 Giants38 said:
Quote:
In comment 14310955 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 14310929 Giants38 said:


Quote:


In comment 14310924 Dave on the UWS said:


Quote:


sounds like something I would say.
Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent!



I know there is a different thread on this, but the Giants are seemingly interviewing every draft eligible OL and QB, so if that doesnt telegraph their needs for you, I dont know what will. They were horrid in pressuring the QB - with or without OV - and I think, like JPP last year, theyd like to minimize the cap hits down the road while getting rid of a player who is a) not theirs; and b) always injured. So its safe to say that if they trade OV, theyd spend the recouped third on a pass rusher, like they did last year



Um, they are meeting with OL and QBs because that is who showed up to the combine first.



A couple things: first, you only get 60 Combine interviews. They have used an inordinate amount on those positions. RBs are there too, so are DLs, not so much as a peep about them. A couple RBs thrown in - maybe a TE - but not much. Im sure DL will come soon.

Its pretty obvious what our needs are. If you dont think QB is one, well, I dont know what to tell you. They arent meeting with just about every QB prospect for the sake of doing so and burning interviews.


The problem is I think you are using Walter Football who has incomplete lists of player meetings and they included the EWSG and the SB. So, just because you see a lot of names doesnt mean we have used all of them up at the combine already.

Yes, OL and QB are glaring needs but going by any incomplete list over many different venues doesn't tell us anything yet until it is complete. With that said, I think our meetings will tell us more under Gettleman than Reese. If I am not mistaken, we always met with players we didn't draft and the ones we did draft were most likely not one of the meetings. I think GoTerps said yesterday that 6 of our draft picks last had meetings with us. Reese used to say when they met with prospects it was because they had questions. If they didn't have questions then then most likely didnt meet. Gettleman obviously seems different.
I dont want Olivier traded  
Elite Mobster #32 : 3/1/2019 5:17 pm : link
don't we need him?
Vernon will not likely snag a 3rd  
micky : 3/1/2019 5:17 pm : link
Maybe 4th or 5th if that. As bad as he seemed, trading him now wouldnt be wise as putting another hole in a bad defense to fill.

And, releasing him after june would just put another burden of dead money
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Eric my friend, shame on you :)  
Giants38 : 3/1/2019 5:21 pm : link
In comment 14311029 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14310993 Giants38 said:


Quote:


In comment 14310955 robbieballs2003 said:


Quote:


In comment 14310929 Giants38 said:


Quote:


In comment 14310924 Dave on the UWS said:


Quote:


sounds like something I would say.
Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent!



I know there is a different thread on this, but the Giants are seemingly interviewing every draft eligible OL and QB, so if that doesnt telegraph their needs for you, I dont know what will. They were horrid in pressuring the QB - with or without OV - and I think, like JPP last year, theyd like to minimize the cap hits down the road while getting rid of a player who is a) not theirs; and b) always injured. So its safe to say that if they trade OV, theyd spend the recouped third on a pass rusher, like they did last year



Um, they are meeting with OL and QBs because that is who showed up to the combine first.



A couple things: first, you only get 60 Combine interviews. They have used an inordinate amount on those positions. RBs are there too, so are DLs, not so much as a peep about them. A couple RBs thrown in - maybe a TE - but not much. Im sure DL will come soon.

Its pretty obvious what our needs are. If you dont think QB is one, well, I dont know what to tell you. They arent meeting with just about every QB prospect for the sake of doing so and burning interviews.



The problem is I think you are using Walter Football who has incomplete lists of player meetings and they included the EWSG and the SB. So, just because you see a lot of names doesnt mean we have used all of them up at the combine already.

Yes, OL and QB are glaring needs but going by any incomplete list over many different venues doesn't tell us anything yet until it is complete. With that said, I think our meetings will tell us more under Gettleman than Reese. If I am not mistaken, we always met with players we didn't draft and the ones we did draft were most likely not one of the meetings. I think GoTerps said yesterday that 6 of our draft picks last had meetings with us. Reese used to say when they met with prospects it was because they had questions. If they didn't have questions then then most likely didnt meet. Gettleman obviously seems different.


I agree. Ive seen the updated lists. You know the two most interviewed positions for us are? OL and QB. Of our 29 interviews, already, 13 were OL and 6 were QB. Thats a staggering number. The other 10 were comprised of 4 RBs, 3 TEs, and 3 WRs.
Forget  
Photoguy : 3/1/2019 5:21 pm : link
the Rosen talk. It ain't happening.
RE: At $15.5M per  
WillVAB : 3/1/2019 5:28 pm : link
In comment 14311027 Beer Man said:
Quote:
it will be a salary dump. Considering that and that he has not played up to the level of his salary, I doubt the Giants could get more than a 5th rounder for him. Plus, unless one of the teams with an overabundance of salary cap space wants him, I doubt there will be many suitors.


If the sharp teams are a bunch of analytic donks like a bunch of posters here claim, Vernon will have suitors. Hes a PFF darling with all of his pressures.

Hes only 28 and a few years removed from an all-pro season. If a team flush with cash strikes out in FA or the ER market dries up, theyll be willing to deal.
I wont pretend to be an asshat  
McNally's_Nuts : 3/1/2019 5:54 pm : link
but a former work colleague of mine, his wifes family owns the Rams and the brother of the wife used to a GA at UCLA when Rosen was there.

Said Rosen doesnt really like football and has passion for many other things besides football.

Id assume thats what JonC, etc is referring too.
With all the OL/Qbs met, and yet DG said we have to fix the D  
Pan-handler : 3/1/2019 5:55 pm : link
I think they are going to really focus on D in FA.
RE: Vernon will not likely snag a 3rd  
SGMen : 3/1/2019 6:08 pm : link
In comment 14311032 micky said:
Quote:
Maybe 4th or 5th if that. As bad as he seemed, trading him now wouldnt be wise as putting another hole in a bad defense to fill.

And, releasing him after june would just put another burden of dead money
If we keep him, he better have a HUGE season along with BJ Hill, D. Thompson, R. Mcintosh, LB Carter and the rookie DL we take with our first pick! The defense has the "potential" to have a strong DL and improved LB if Vernon is healthy; Carter takes over for Martin based on better play not just potential; and, we fix FS.
RE: RE: Vernon will not likely snag a 3rd  
Pan-handler : 3/1/2019 6:11 pm : link
In comment 14311087 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 14311032 micky said:


Quote:


Maybe 4th or 5th if that. As bad as he seemed, trading him now wouldnt be wise as putting another hole in a bad defense to fill.

And, releasing him after june would just put another burden of dead money

If we keep him, he better have a HUGE season along with BJ Hill, D. Thompson, R. Mcintosh, LB Carter and the rookie DL we take with our first pick! The defense has the "potential" to have a strong DL and improved LB if Vernon is healthy; Carter takes over for Martin based on better play not just potential; and, we fix FS.


Switch out OV for a guy that gets home on the pass rush. We need that bad.
RE: I wont pretend to be an asshat  
Beer Man : 3/1/2019 6:27 pm : link
In comment 14311069 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:
but a former work colleague of mine, his wifes family owns the Rams and the brother of the wife used to a GA at UCLA when Rosen was there.

Said Rosen doesnt really like football and has passion for many other things besides football.

Id assume thats what JonC, etc is referring too.
There was an article leading up to the 2018 draft that said something to the same.
RE: RE: RE: Vernon will not likely snag a 3rd  
Go Terps : 3/1/2019 6:44 pm : link
In comment 14311092 Pan-handler said:
Quote:
In comment 14311087 SGMen said:


Quote:


In comment 14311032 micky said:


Quote:


Maybe 4th or 5th if that. As bad as he seemed, trading him now wouldnt be wise as putting another hole in a bad defense to fill.

And, releasing him after june would just put another burden of dead money

If we keep him, he better have a HUGE season along with BJ Hill, D. Thompson, R. Mcintosh, LB Carter and the rookie DL we take with our first pick! The defense has the "potential" to have a strong DL and improved LB if Vernon is healthy; Carter takes over for Martin based on better play not just potential; and, we fix FS.



Switch out OV for a guy that gets home on the pass rush. We need that bad.


It's not something we should do via FA. We need to get out of the premium FA market. It doesn't pay off, it comes up the cap, and it's why we don't get many compensatory picks.

We're better off talking a quantity over quality approach in FA. Use it to build up depth and special teams.
RE: RE: I wont pretend to be an asshat  
ZogZerg : 3/1/2019 8:04 pm : link
In comment 14311108 Beer Man said:
Quote:
In comment 14311069 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:


but a former work colleague of mine, his wifes family owns the Rams and the brother of the wife used to a GA at UCLA when Rosen was there.

Said Rosen doesnt really like football and has passion for many other things besides football.

Id assume thats what JonC, etc is referring too.

There was an article leading up to the 2018 draft that said something to the same.


Yes, there was. Rosen addressed it.
This is a bunch of BS.
Get a 3rd round pick ? Do It !!  
Bluesbreaker : 3/1/2019 8:30 pm : link
Let him kneel elsewhere ...
RE: RE: RE: RE: Vernon will not likely snag a 3rd  
eric2425ny : 3/1/2019 8:33 pm : link
In comment 14311125 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14311092 Pan-handler said:


Quote:


In comment 14311087 SGMen said:


Quote:


In comment 14311032 micky said:


Quote:


Maybe 4th or 5th if that. As bad as he seemed, trading him now wouldnt be wise as putting another hole in a bad defense to fill.

And, releasing him after june would just put another burden of dead money

If we keep him, he better have a HUGE season along with BJ Hill, D. Thompson, R. Mcintosh, LB Carter and the rookie DL we take with our first pick! The defense has the "potential" to have a strong DL and improved LB if Vernon is healthy; Carter takes over for Martin based on better play not just potential; and, we fix FS.



Switch out OV for a guy that gets home on the pass rush. We need that bad.



It's not something we should do via FA. We need to get out of the premium FA market. It doesn't pay off, it comes up the cap, and it's why we don't get many compensatory picks.

We're better off talking a quantity over quality approach in FA. Use it to build up depth and special teams.


Excellent post, this is the best and quickest way to get this team back to relevancy. We have extra picks to move around in the draft to get the guys we need. It takes a few years of good drafting to overcome the lack of depth Gettleman had when he walked in last year.
I think if anything it will be a 5th or so.  
yatqb : 3/1/2019 9:02 pm : link
A team that trades for him has to take his cap hit. I'm thinking it would be less than we gave for Ogletree.
JPP  
Archer : 3/1/2019 9:47 pm : link
I think that Vernon should have similar value to JPP
Therefore, a third is not unreasonable
I hope you're right, Archer; that would be a pleasant surprise for me.  
yatqb : 3/1/2019 10:16 pm : link
.
Okwara would have been cheaper  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/1/2019 10:18 pm : link

Field Yates
‏Verified account @FieldYates
3h3 hours ago

The Lions have signed DE Romeo Okawara to a two-year extension. He led the team with 7.5 sacks in 2018 after getting cut by the Giants in the preseason.
RE: Okwara would have been cheaper  
eric2425ny : 3/1/2019 10:26 pm : link
In comment 14311237 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:

Field Yates
‏Verified account @FieldYates
3h3 hours ago

The Lions have signed DE Romeo Okawara to a two-year extension. He led the team with 7.5 sacks in 2018 after getting cut by the Giants in the preseason.


I live in Detroit and my buddies at work always ask me why the hell did we cut Okwara, while being thankful at the same time lol.
...  
christian : 3/1/2019 10:55 pm : link
Good thing the Giants have the irreplaceable Kareem Martin at 6M this year.
RE: ...  
Go Terps : 3/1/2019 11:01 pm : link
In comment 14311247 christian said:
Quote:
Good thing the Giants have the irreplaceable Kareem Martin at 6M this year.


That guy costs more against the cap than Patrick Mahomes.
Guys guys, the roster was so bad already  
NoGainDayne : 3/1/2019 11:29 pm : link
they HAD to make these kinds of moves.
RE: Guys guys, the roster was so bad already  
christian : 3/1/2019 11:32 pm : link
In comment 14311261 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
they HAD to make these kinds of moves.


Yup -- there was no other choice. The hell with value.

I mean without these signings the Giants might have lost double digit games.
Be careful with this "value" talk  
NoGainDayne : 3/1/2019 11:40 pm : link
you are getting dangerously close to the dreaded "A-word" when it clearly has no place in discussions like this.

You might wake up a troll.
Do you..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 3/1/2019 11:43 pm : link
really need to be told time and again to go fuck yourself?
...  
christian : 3/1/2019 11:45 pm : link
Yes, the A word. Don't want to go there.

Don't need the A when you've got culture on your mind.
RE: RE: ...  
short lease : 3/1/2019 11:50 pm : link
In comment 14311248 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14311247 christian said:


Quote:


Good thing the Giants have the irreplaceable Kareem Martin at 6M this year.



That guy costs more against the cap than Patrick Mahomes.


Not for long ...
This is educational i'm going to have to keep a list  
NoGainDayne : 3/2/2019 12:02 am : link
1. Can't use the "A-word" even when you explain the relevance

2. Can't joke about potentially using the "A-word"

3. Can't mention Gettleman was fired as a knock against him because "it wasn't his fault"

4. Can't extrapolate people's capabilities based on listed qualifications

5. Can't use what people say in public to infer what they are thinking

6. Can't assume how much game theory someone understands by how well you see it applied, singular articles must instead be used as reference

Are there any other sensitivities I need to keep in mind for the person I've watched insult people for over 15 years?
RE: Vernon and a 3rd  
Leg of Theismann : 3/2/2019 4:11 am : link
In comment 14310651 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
for Rosen


Other than the fact we don't have a 3rd round pick... that would be a horrendous trade for the Cardinals. Give up their #10 overall franchise QB (who is on a cheap rookie deal) for an injury-prone $15M vet and a 3rd rounder? When people post things like this I always just want to be like "if the tables were turned would you want the Giants to make that move?" BBI would implode.

#37 and Vernon for Rosen sounds slightly more reasonable.
RE: I think if anything it will be a 5th or so.  
gmenatlarge : 3/2/2019 5:08 am : link
In comment 14311194 yatqb said:
Quote:
A team that trades for him has to take his cap hit. I'm thinking it would be less than we gave for Ogletree.


+1 What team is going to give up anything of value for an oft-injured, overpaid, under-performing player, face it, the giants are probably stuck with OV for one more year.
RE: Trade him to Arizona  
BigBlueJuice : 3/2/2019 8:09 am : link
In comment 14310646 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
Get their 3rd round pick, or 4th round pick and use both our early 4ths to move up into the 3rd


Maybe trade him for rosen if they decide to go with murray and bam fixed qb problem. Then can focus draft on o and d line and lbs and s.
RE: RE: RE: Colts make a ton of sense  
BigBlueJuice : 3/2/2019 8:12 am : link
In comment 14310921 WillVAB said:
Quote:
In comment 14310811 giants#1 said:


Quote:

I wouldnt mind they cut OV or trade him and pick up Demarcus Lawrence from cowboys since cowboys have to pay zeke, dak, and lawrence. With witten back got to pay that man too. So chance cowboys cant afford all of them.

In comment 14310794 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Zero pass rush and a ton of money.



By that logic, so do the Jets. But they're short picks already.



Colts were a playoff team last year and probably think getting a viable pass rush will get them over the hump. Vernon had one of his few decent performances vs the Colts last year. If the Colts strike out on pass rushers in FA I could see them being very interested.
If you are using Gettleman's firing as a knock against him,  
Zeke's Alibi : 3/2/2019 8:29 am : link
considering the situation, really questions your critical thinking skills.
RE: Okwara would have been cheaper  
Pan-handler : 3/2/2019 9:47 am : link
In comment 14311237 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:

Field Yates
‏Verified account @FieldYates
3h3 hours ago

The Lions have signed DE Romeo Okawara to a two-year extension. He led the team with 7.5 sacks in 2018 after getting cut by the Giants in the preseason.


Reeses FA finds are showing up in a big way on other teams. Harrison, JPP, Okwara.

I think DG had an amazing draft but his FA additions /subtractions left alot to be desired
RE: If you are using Gettleman's firing as a knock against him,  
NoGainDayne : 3/2/2019 10:44 am : link
In comment 14311357 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
considering the situation, really questions your critical thinking skills.


It doesnt mean he didnt deserve a new job but getting fired is always partially your fault. No way around it. You dont get very far in life pointing fingers at others and at the very least speaks to his prickly personality which does not help when recruiting technical talent.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Makes it more belivable  
90.Cal : 3/2/2019 2:02 pm : link
In comment 14310649 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 14310640 90.Cal said:


Quote:


In comment 14310586 Anakim said:


Quote:


In comment 14310582 dep026 said:


Quote:


that Gary, Allen, and Sweat are going to be in the fold at 6.



I like Burns more than Sweat. Burns is my #7 guy in this class.



Your #7 guy... okay Mayock. Just kidding. I need to see more of Sweat, Burns and Polite..



Thanks to The Draft Network, I have my own 90 man Draft Board


Didnt know you could do that. Pretty cool. Save a final copy and post it for fun this time next year.
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