Mike Garafolo
& #8207;Verified account
@MikeGarafolo
The #Giants have discussed the possibility of trading LB Olivier Vernon, sources tell me and @RapSheet. The big score of free agency a few years ago, Vernon might have played his last down as a Giant.
Good article on his performance vs other rookie QBs
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
need to give up.
Lol. This is almost comical at this point. We have drafted guys like Snee and Collins in the early second round in the past. Thats a really valuable pick to give up for a QB that may not pan out. Hes not a draft pick, we got to see on year of him in action, and it wasnt pretty, bad team or not.
Dumping guys like Snacks and now maybe Vernon would seem to indicate he's thinking beyond just next season's improvement.
I'm thinking more and more he is looking to trade up in this draft to get his quarterback, and accumulate enough capital to trade again into the first round to address one of the lines.
Quote:
to give up #6 for a player drafted lower, and coming off a poor rookie season. That's poor, desperate negotiating.
JonC It only makes sense if you think the guy is franchise QB. Those of us that like him do. It is a pretty common thing to say around here here that if you really believe he is the guy, cost doesn't matter. I don't care where he was drafted, I care about what I think he will be. I think he will eventually be a top 10 in the NFL starter. Others do not believe this, then 6 is too much. I can play the position, Rosen has elite arm talent IMHO.
If you watch some videos of Haskins and the touch he has on the deep ball and the back shoulder fade you may change your mind. That guy is solidly built and definitely has an NFL arm.
this is what I was thinking.....doubtful.
Too soon?
That's what she said.
Too soon?
Cant Krafts hands are in evidence right now
Think the Rosen talk is wasted. Cards won't trade him .
I am not a Rosen fan by any means, BUT if they could dump OV, get a young QB with potential and still get an edge or BPA with #6 then youd think it was a win. I don't think it will happen. Too much press about cards taking murray and I'm sorry, but I just don't think a QB his size cuts it in the NFL. At least not with a long shelf life.
Think the Rosen talk is wasted. Cards won't trade him .
Quote:
Zero pass rush and a ton of money.
By that logic, so do the Jets. But they're short picks already.
Colts were a playoff team last year and probably think getting a viable pass rush will get them over the hump. Vernon had one of his few decent performances vs the Colts last year. If the Colts strike out on pass rushers in FA I could see them being very interested.
Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent!
Too soon?
BAN HIM!!!!!!!!
lolol
Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent!
I know there is a different thread on this, but the Giants are seemingly interviewing every draft eligible OL and QB, so if that doesnt telegraph their needs for you, I dont know what will. They were horrid in pressuring the QB - with or without OV - and I think, like JPP last year, theyd like to minimize the cap hits down the road while getting rid of a player who is a) not theirs; and b) always injured. So its safe to say that if they trade OV, theyd spend the recouped third on a pass rusher, like they did last year
Quote:
I'd trade him to the Patriots for a hand job.
Too soon?
That's what she said.
Throw in some eye contact and you got a deal
Is cutting Vernon for another linebacker feasible - ( New Window )
Quote:
sounds like something I would say.
Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent!
I know there is a different thread on this, but the Giants are seemingly interviewing every draft eligible OL and QB, so if that doesnt telegraph their needs for you, I dont know what will. They were horrid in pressuring the QB - with or without OV - and I think, like JPP last year, theyd like to minimize the cap hits down the road while getting rid of a player who is a) not theirs; and b) always injured. So its safe to say that if they trade OV, theyd spend the recouped third on a pass rusher, like they did last year
Um, they are meeting with OL and QBs because that is who showed up to the combine first.
Rosen didn't have a poor rookie year. He had year where he just tried to survive and get experience. Call it incomplete.
From the games I tuned in to watch some Rosen action, he looked terrific throwing the ball. Guy is a natural throwing a football.
Quote:
In comment 14310886 JonC said:
Quote:
to give up #6 for a player drafted lower, and coming off a poor rookie season. That's poor, desperate negotiating.
JonC It only makes sense if you think the guy is franchise QB. Those of us that like him do. It is a pretty common thing to say around here here that if you really believe he is the guy, cost doesn't matter. I don't care where he was drafted, I care about what I think he will be. I think he will eventually be a top 10 in the NFL starter. Others do not believe this, then 6 is too much. I can play the position, Rosen has elite arm talent IMHO.
If you watch some videos of Haskins and the touch he has on the deep ball and the back shoulder fade you may change your mind. That guy is solidly built and definitely has an NFL arm.
Is cutting Vernon for another linebacker feasible - ( New Window )
Thanks its appreciated.
Quote:
Rosen had probably the worst OL in football. He was under siege on every down.
Glad that excuse works for Rosen on this board but not Eli!
First of all, plenty of people DO use that excuse for Eli, so you can go ahead and pack up your strawman and save it for another day. Secondly, Eli is 38. Most everyone acknowledges that the OL is a major factor in Eli's performance, but 38 year old athletes are almost always candidates for replacement. Especially when the team as a whole is a mess - how long will it be before the team is genuinely good enough to contend? Two years? Three? So Eli will be 40 or 41 by then and long past his current contract.
If you trade Vernon for a 3rd round pick, well, OK. A team that needs a decent pass rusher may bite. Say, one of the playoff teams like the Colts, Saints, KC or San Diego perhaps? Taking a chance on a guy who if healthy can produce may be a good idea.
But if you trade Vernon and you are clearly in rebuild mode, well, do you cut Eli if you draft a QB at #6? I don't think you do.
I honestly believe the Jets will trade out of #3 and some team will take Murray there. And Oakland will trade out of #4 and Haskins will be taken. The Giants will get a DL, maybe DT Oliver who had a monster Junior year and I believe he is on par with Bosa almost in terms of overall talent & upside. Bosa is the best DL though.
Honestly, I'd love if the Giants got a solid DL that could play as a rookie and really excel, surpassing what BJ Hill did last year. We could potentially have a very strong, rotating DL with say a rookie DL; Thompson and Hill starting. McIntosh and Mauro (if re-signed) off the bench, maybe Wynn too. You have to hope 2nd year LB Carter can step up and take Vernon's spot I guess.
The key to our rebuild is solid drafting and only signing that one key UFA (RT D. Williams is my guy here) to plug a hole. The rest of the UFA plugs will likely just be bodies to compete.
This team could be competitive next year if we sign UFA D. Williams; OG Hernandez really improves year 2; OC Hilapio comes back and is an improvement over Pulley; and, we draft well for an OG / OC and maybe even a RT. Eli, if protected, can still produce.
I'm always optimistic but so totally realize this team has more holes than swiss cheese.
Now, lastly, if Haskins is there at #6 and Jax calls do you trade down? I say YES as I'm not really sold on Haskins or Murray for that matter. But if you trade down you better have a player in mind like the TE whose name escapes me (sp Hoshkon or ??). He could step in as a rookie and produce. We shall see.
Quote:
In comment 14310924 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
sounds like something I would say.
Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent!
I know there is a different thread on this, but the Giants are seemingly interviewing every draft eligible OL and QB, so if that doesnt telegraph their needs for you, I dont know what will. They were horrid in pressuring the QB - with or without OV - and I think, like JPP last year, theyd like to minimize the cap hits down the road while getting rid of a player who is a) not theirs; and b) always injured. So its safe to say that if they trade OV, theyd spend the recouped third on a pass rusher, like they did last year
Um, they are meeting with OL and QBs because that is who showed up to the combine first.
A couple things: first, you only get 60 Combine interviews. They have used an inordinate amount on those positions. RBs are there too, so are DLs, not so much as a peep about them. A couple RBs thrown in - maybe a TE - but not much. Im sure DL will come soon.
Its pretty obvious what our needs are. If you dont think QB is one, well, I dont know what to tell you. They arent meeting with just about every QB prospect for the sake of doing so and burning interviews.
No they don't. They're bidding against other teams, not against the Cardinals releasing Rosen outright. The Cards drafting Murray doesn't affect their leverage at all. In fact, it might increase it since it gives them some explanation other than trying to flip their first round pick after one season.
If you trade Vernon for a 3rd round pick, well, OK. A team that needs a decent pass rusher may bite. Say, one of the playoff teams like the Colts, Saints, KC or San Diego perhaps? Taking a chance on a guy who if healthy can produce may be a good idea.
But if you trade Vernon and you are clearly in rebuild mode, well, do you cut Eli if you draft a QB at #6? I don't think you do.
I honestly believe the Jets will trade out of #3 and some team will take Murray there. And Oakland will trade out of #4 and Haskins will be taken. The Giants will get a DL, maybe DT Oliver who had a monster Junior year and I believe he is on par with Bosa almost in terms of overall talent & upside. Bosa is the best DL though.
Honestly, I'd love if the Giants got a solid DL that could play as a rookie and really excel, surpassing what BJ Hill did last year. We could potentially have a very strong, rotating DL with say a rookie DL; Thompson and Hill starting. McIntosh and Mauro (if re-signed) off the bench, maybe Wynn too. You have to hope 2nd year LB Carter can step up and take Vernon's spot I guess.
The key to our rebuild is solid drafting and only signing that one key UFA (RT D. Williams is my guy here) to plug a hole. The rest of the UFA plugs will likely just be bodies to compete.
This team could be competitive next year if we sign UFA D. Williams; OG Hernandez really improves year 2; OC Hilapio comes back and is an improvement over Pulley; and, we draft well for an OG / OC and maybe even a RT. Eli, if protected, can still produce.
I'm always optimistic but so totally realize this team has more holes than swiss cheese.
Now, lastly, if Haskins is there at #6 and Jax calls do you trade down? I say YES as I'm not really sold on Haskins or Murray for that matter. But if you trade down you better have a player in mind like the TE whose name escapes me (sp Hoshkon or ??). He could step in as a rookie and produce. We shall see.
Its possibly to free up money to get another big ticket DE in FA. OV is always hurt and getting older. He was signed by the previous regime with no ties to DG.
DG basically said just like I screamed OL last year , I am screaming defense this year. That very likely means some big name FA on Defense. Not just rookies with a learning curve.
Quote:
In comment 14310929 Giants38 said:
Quote:
In comment 14310924 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
sounds like something I would say.
Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent!
I know there is a different thread on this, but the Giants are seemingly interviewing every draft eligible OL and QB, so if that doesnt telegraph their needs for you, I dont know what will. They were horrid in pressuring the QB - with or without OV - and I think, like JPP last year, theyd like to minimize the cap hits down the road while getting rid of a player who is a) not theirs; and b) always injured. So its safe to say that if they trade OV, theyd spend the recouped third on a pass rusher, like they did last year
Um, they are meeting with OL and QBs because that is who showed up to the combine first.
A couple things: first, you only get 60 Combine interviews. They have used an inordinate amount on those positions. RBs are there too, so are DLs, not so much as a peep about them. A couple RBs thrown in - maybe a TE - but not much. Im sure DL will come soon.
Its pretty obvious what our needs are. If you dont think QB is one, well, I dont know what to tell you. They arent meeting with just about every QB prospect for the sake of doing so and burning interviews.
The problem is I think you are using Walter Football who has incomplete lists of player meetings and they included the EWSG and the SB. So, just because you see a lot of names doesnt mean we have used all of them up at the combine already.
Yes, OL and QB are glaring needs but going by any incomplete list over many different venues doesn't tell us anything yet until it is complete. With that said, I think our meetings will tell us more under Gettleman than Reese. If I am not mistaken, we always met with players we didn't draft and the ones we did draft were most likely not one of the meetings. I think GoTerps said yesterday that 6 of our draft picks last had meetings with us. Reese used to say when they met with prospects it was because they had questions. If they didn't have questions then then most likely didnt meet. Gettleman obviously seems different.
And, releasing him after june would just put another burden of dead money
Quote:
In comment 14310955 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14310929 Giants38 said:
Quote:
In comment 14310924 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
sounds like something I would say.
Joeinpa- I think that is EXACTLY what they might do. And DG wants to recoup a 3rd rd pick. I bet he would like to come out of the first two days with a QB, an ER and an OL. That would be excellent!
I know there is a different thread on this, but the Giants are seemingly interviewing every draft eligible OL and QB, so if that doesnt telegraph their needs for you, I dont know what will. They were horrid in pressuring the QB - with or without OV - and I think, like JPP last year, theyd like to minimize the cap hits down the road while getting rid of a player who is a) not theirs; and b) always injured. So its safe to say that if they trade OV, theyd spend the recouped third on a pass rusher, like they did last year
Um, they are meeting with OL and QBs because that is who showed up to the combine first.
A couple things: first, you only get 60 Combine interviews. They have used an inordinate amount on those positions. RBs are there too, so are DLs, not so much as a peep about them. A couple RBs thrown in - maybe a TE - but not much. Im sure DL will come soon.
Its pretty obvious what our needs are. If you dont think QB is one, well, I dont know what to tell you. They arent meeting with just about every QB prospect for the sake of doing so and burning interviews.
The problem is I think you are using Walter Football who has incomplete lists of player meetings and they included the EWSG and the SB. So, just because you see a lot of names doesnt mean we have used all of them up at the combine already.
Yes, OL and QB are glaring needs but going by any incomplete list over many different venues doesn't tell us anything yet until it is complete. With that said, I think our meetings will tell us more under Gettleman than Reese. If I am not mistaken, we always met with players we didn't draft and the ones we did draft were most likely not one of the meetings. I think GoTerps said yesterday that 6 of our draft picks last had meetings with us. Reese used to say when they met with prospects it was because they had questions. If they didn't have questions then then most likely didnt meet. Gettleman obviously seems different.
I agree. Ive seen the updated lists. You know the two most interviewed positions for us are? OL and QB. Of our 29 interviews, already, 13 were OL and 6 were QB. Thats a staggering number. The other 10 were comprised of 4 RBs, 3 TEs, and 3 WRs.
If the sharp teams are a bunch of analytic donks like a bunch of posters here claim, Vernon will have suitors. Hes a PFF darling with all of his pressures.
Hes only 28 and a few years removed from an all-pro season. If a team flush with cash strikes out in FA or the ER market dries up, theyll be willing to deal.
Said Rosen doesnt really like football and has passion for many other things besides football.
Id assume thats what JonC, etc is referring too.
And, releasing him after june would just put another burden of dead money
Quote:
Maybe 4th or 5th if that. As bad as he seemed, trading him now wouldnt be wise as putting another hole in a bad defense to fill.
And, releasing him after june would just put another burden of dead money
If we keep him, he better have a HUGE season along with BJ Hill, D. Thompson, R. Mcintosh, LB Carter and the rookie DL we take with our first pick! The defense has the "potential" to have a strong DL and improved LB if Vernon is healthy; Carter takes over for Martin based on better play not just potential; and, we fix FS.
Switch out OV for a guy that gets home on the pass rush. We need that bad.
Said Rosen doesnt really like football and has passion for many other things besides football.
Id assume thats what JonC, etc is referring too.
Quote:
In comment 14311032 micky said:
Quote:
Maybe 4th or 5th if that. As bad as he seemed, trading him now wouldnt be wise as putting another hole in a bad defense to fill.
And, releasing him after june would just put another burden of dead money
If we keep him, he better have a HUGE season along with BJ Hill, D. Thompson, R. Mcintosh, LB Carter and the rookie DL we take with our first pick! The defense has the "potential" to have a strong DL and improved LB if Vernon is healthy; Carter takes over for Martin based on better play not just potential; and, we fix FS.
Switch out OV for a guy that gets home on the pass rush. We need that bad.
It's not something we should do via FA. We need to get out of the premium FA market. It doesn't pay off, it comes up the cap, and it's why we don't get many compensatory picks.
We're better off talking a quantity over quality approach in FA. Use it to build up depth and special teams.
Quote:
but a former work colleague of mine, his wifes family owns the Rams and the brother of the wife used to a GA at UCLA when Rosen was there.
Said Rosen doesnt really like football and has passion for many other things besides football.
Id assume thats what JonC, etc is referring too.
There was an article leading up to the 2018 draft that said something to the same.
Yes, there was. Rosen addressed it.
This is a bunch of BS.
Quote:
In comment 14311087 SGMen said:
Quote:
In comment 14311032 micky said:
Quote:
Maybe 4th or 5th if that. As bad as he seemed, trading him now wouldnt be wise as putting another hole in a bad defense to fill.
And, releasing him after june would just put another burden of dead money
If we keep him, he better have a HUGE season along with BJ Hill, D. Thompson, R. Mcintosh, LB Carter and the rookie DL we take with our first pick! The defense has the "potential" to have a strong DL and improved LB if Vernon is healthy; Carter takes over for Martin based on better play not just potential; and, we fix FS.
Switch out OV for a guy that gets home on the pass rush. We need that bad.
It's not something we should do via FA. We need to get out of the premium FA market. It doesn't pay off, it comes up the cap, and it's why we don't get many compensatory picks.
We're better off talking a quantity over quality approach in FA. Use it to build up depth and special teams.
Excellent post, this is the best and quickest way to get this team back to relevancy. We have extra picks to move around in the draft to get the guys we need. It takes a few years of good drafting to overcome the lack of depth Gettleman had when he walked in last year.
Therefore, a third is not unreasonable
Field Yates
Verified account @FieldYates
3h3 hours ago
The Lions have signed DE Romeo Okawara to a two-year extension. He led the team with 7.5 sacks in 2018 after getting cut by the Giants in the preseason.