Take it with a grain of salt as these things can change very quickly. I'm friends with a front office person of a team who is based in Florida. He was/is at the combine and he said he's been hearing a few things about the Giants.
He said the belief around the league is that the Giants will sign 2 pass rushers and the deals could already be agreed. That's why the OV trade/cut news came out. He said the two names he's hearing are Za'Darius Smith and Markus Golden.
He also said that the noise around the combine is the Giants will sign Daryl Williams to play RT and that seems to be the Giants top priority in free agency. He said he'd be surprised if Jamon Brown wasn't back and that the Giants will look to upgrade OC/RG in the draft.
Like I said take it with a grain of salt. The person who told me this has been correct on a number of occasions and he's also been wrong. Just figured you guys would be interested in hearing something.
Brown might not have too many of options either so why not let all of this other stuff play out.
He said he can't see the Giants just letting Landon Collins walk. He said Collins might not play for the Giants this season, but he still thinks we try to tag and trade him to recoup the 3rd round pick we lost in the supplemental draft.
2 ERs + Carter gives them depth there and with Williams at RT there isn't a huge need for an OT (they're not taking an interior OL at #6).
Just my opinion, but I think OV and Wynn are gone. Not sure about Edwards.
Markus Golden had 12.5 sacks in 2016, was IR'd 2017 with a torn ACL. Came back in 2018, but only had 2.5 sacks.
Za'Darius Smith had 8.5 sacks in 2018, but prior to that he hasn't had more than 5.5 sacks in a single season (3-seasons)
If Golden can return to form, then they have OVs production at a more cap friendly rate. But Smith doesn't real excite me.
of the top 6 highest contracts in the NFL, 3 of them are strong safeties. Tagging collins would put him somewhere between 6th and 7th.
link - ( New Window )
link - ( New Window )
Agreed.
Though it has to be said, we're paying guys right now that aren't playing to that level.
There are a few players for this franchise that earn their money, and Collins is one of them. I'd be more in favor of getting rid of the guys that aren't getting it done to keep the players that do.
Need a plan a FS but Rome wasnt built in a day.
Hope you are right
Hope you are right
All the OL they interviewed I think they pick up another even if they go Williams
So I'm hoping we'd get production similar to the 2016 season putting him back at his natural position in Bettcher's defense.
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like Williams in FA then the draft could be predominantly D which imo is what is desperately needed.
Hope you are right
All the OL they interviewed I think they pick up another even if they go Williams
That's most likely the case. Just depends who else is on the board and if the value matches up. Definitely wouldn't be surprised to see us grab a RG at the top of the 2nd round.
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In comment 14313303 ChicagoMarty said:
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like Williams in FA then the draft could be predominantly D which imo is what is desperately needed.
Hope you are right
All the OL they interviewed I think they pick up another even if they go Williams
That's most likely the case. Just depends who else is on the board and if the value matches up. Definitely wouldn't be surprised to see us grab a RG at the top of the 2nd round.
Bradbury or McCoy at C would be incredible. Both show year 1 plug and play potential (though NYG supposedly still high on Pio)
So our draft could play out something like this:
#6 - Devin White ILB
#37 - Nasir Adderly S or Taylor Rapp S
#108 - Jalen Jenks ER
#132 - Khalil Hodge LB
#142 - Salvion Smith CB
#143 - Shareef Miller ER
#171 - Nate Herbig OL
#180 - Marquise Blair S
#232- Marquise Copeland DL
#245 - Ed Alexander DL
Decent outlook via PFF (which I realize is just one perspective and far from perfect).
So does Kareem Martin and he sucks
Low first year cap hits commonly structured with incoming FAs.
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So does Kareem Martin and he sucks
Martin never put up the numbers Golden did in '16. Assuming he's back to where he was after the injury, it would be a good signing.
Golden will likely come with either a prove it type deal or an option deal. The Giants would free up a lot of cap room by letting go of Vernon. They could structure these three deal in a way to fit it under the cap.
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In comment 14313285 jeff57 said:
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So does Kareem Martin and he sucks
Martin never put up the numbers Golden did in '16. Assuming he's back to where he was after the injury, it would be a good signing.
Thats the major point: Will he be back to where he was pre-injury/surgery and do you spend the money and take a chance?
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In comment 14313333 TommyWiseau said:
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In comment 14313285 jeff57 said:
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So does Kareem Martin and he sucks
Martin never put up the numbers Golden did in '16. Assuming he's back to where he was after the injury, it would be a good signing.
Thats the major point: Will he be back to where he was pre-injury/surgery and do you spend the money and take a chance?
It was a torn ACL. They aren't really a big deal anymore. Especially 2 years removed from it.
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In comment 14313341 jeff57 said:
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In comment 14313333 TommyWiseau said:
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In comment 14313285 jeff57 said:
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So does Kareem Martin and he sucks
Martin never put up the numbers Golden did in '16. Assuming he's back to where he was after the injury, it would be a good signing.
Thats the major point: Will he be back to where he was pre-injury/surgery and do you spend the money and take a chance?
It was a torn ACL. They aren't really a big deal anymore. Especially 2 years removed from it.
Exactly 2 years removed and still young
Familiarity with Bettcher
It was a torn ACL. They aren't really a big deal anymore. Especially 2 years removed from it.
Earlier this season I suggested Golden as a top target because of his past performance and connection to Bettcher. At the right price he absolutely would make sense but I am a little concerned that he posted just 2.5 sacks in 11 games. If the Giants can get him for an option contract where they can get out of it after 1 year then they should take the chance.
Yes, not trying to compare the two exactly, but getting Williams would b similar to when we finally shored up the RT spot with McKenzie years ago.
Agreed.
I think this is going to happen. 1st round pick will be a DL, ER, or QB and the 2nd round pick will be an offensive linemen for the 2nd year in a row. I would prefer to see them spend 2-3 picks on OL in this draft. A G, C, and developmental OT in the 4th or 5th.
Probably, but BBI bitches about everything. We have an all time talent at WR and a lot of people want him gone.
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It was a torn ACL. They aren't really a big deal anymore. Especially 2 years removed from it.
Earlier this season I suggested Golden as a top target because of his past performance and connection to Bettcher. At the right price he absolutely would make sense but I am a little concerned that he posted just 2.5 sacks in 11 games. If the Giants can get him for an option contract where they can get out of it after 1 year then they should take the chance.
They had him playing out of position last year. He was playing DE in a 4-3. That's not his natural position. He's strictly an OLB in a 3-4. There's a reason Steve Wilks was fired. He was a terrible coach. I don't put any stock in his 2018 season.
I see this mistake made every off-season.
People assume that because websites say the Giants have X Million dollars, that means that is all they can spend. They forget time and time again that NFL contracts are not guaranteed and team regularly cut, trade or restructure to create cap space.
Just because the Giants CURRENTLY have about $28M in cap space does not mean that is all they can spend.
If they cut or trade OV they have around 40 million in cap space. They would have no problem signing these guys. Golden isn't gonna get a big deal. Smith probably gets a middle of the road deal and Williams might be near the top of the RT market. That's only around 8-10 million a year. The cap hit would probably be 4-5 million in the first year.
Golden is more of a buy-low lottery ticket, since he turns 28 next week and has a significant injury history. He's more likely to sign a short "prove it" deal or a multi-year contract where the "out" year for the team, in cap terms, is no later than 2021.
I like the idea of blending free agency strategies. It's one of many ways to diversify risk. I don't know enough about the players to have an opinion on them one way or the other.
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This doesn't sound possible at all. Even when backloading the hell out of all the contracts.
I see this mistake made every off-season.
People assume that because websites say the Giants have X Million dollars, that means that is all they can spend. They forget time and time again that NFL contracts are not guaranteed and team regularly cut, trade or restructure to create cap space.
Just because the Giants CURRENTLY have about $28M in cap space does not mean that is all they can spend.
Thank you Rich, that's absolutely right. The Eagles were over the cap last year but they ended up trading for Bennett and re-signing several of their players. The Giants have about 27 million to spend now but they would free up over 12 million more by releasing Vernon. They could easily fit draft picks plus Williams, Smith, and Golden under the cap.
I also believe that DG didnt remove high priced and productive vet defenders like snacks, jpp, Apple (Vernon?) just to sit on his hands one year later and take the slow and steady pace to fix this defense. The defense was in near crisis mode before cutting all those players. Its even worse now. Drastic measures are needed. Veterans are needed. Its going to happen this offseason.
I also believe that DG didnt remove high priced and productive vet defenders like snacks, jpp, Apple (Vernon?) just to sit on his hands one year later and take the slow and steady pace to fix this defense. The defense was in near crisis mode before cutting all those players. Its even worse now. Drastic measures are needed. Veterans are needed. Its going to happen this offseason.
I dont think itll be an all out splurge but we will be active.
OV going is a real possibility and will free up even more.
RT Williams a Safety and 2 pass rushers is certainly a possibility.
He is my favorite FA target though- an ascending player who fits the scheme perfectly. Won't command OV money either (I don't think...)
I also believe that DG didnt remove high priced and productive vet defenders like snacks, jpp, Apple (Vernon?) just to sit on his hands one year later and take the slow and steady pace to fix this defense. The defense was in near crisis mode before cutting all those players. Its even worse now. Drastic measures are needed. Veterans are needed. Its going to happen this offseason.
I think you are spot on here. We do have a ton of $$ coming off the books next year. You could easily structure deals to have a lower base salary in 2019 and ramp up the cap hit in 2020.
Yes. That would be pretty active.
Thanks Jon! My buddy said this is what he was hearing from other teams and players agents 🤷🏻♂️ Guess we will see
Lastly, they still have business of their own to take care of before the cap number starts to get discussed. They have no #2 WR, no FB, no C, no RG, they have to resign their pro bowl kicker, and both their starting safeties are FA. They can't draft all those spots and they have to field a team...so I'm guessing that they aren't going to be able to take a deep dive into the FA pool unless they make some real tough decisions about their big $$ guys (like they are discussing with OV).
I'd love to see it happen, but it just doesn't seem feasible.
not necessarily if they let OV go.
Huh? Are you saying we shouldn't address glaring needs in FA? Name one team that doesn't use FA to address needs.
In comment 14313316 Big Rick in FL said:
So I'm hoping we'd get production similar to the 2016 season putting him back at his natural position in Bettcher's defense.
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but this approach feels like the same thing Reese did...see hole, plug hole. It's basically Whac-A-Mole or Battleship.
Huh? Are you saying we shouldn't address glaring needs in FA? Name one team that doesn't use FA to address needs.
It's the same thing Reese did in 2016. Gettleman is in the process of just reallocating that to new guys, and in 3 years we'll more than likely be talking about how much dead cap space we'll have to take on in order to be unburdened by their contracts.
If I were Gettleman I wouldn't get involved in the premium FA market. The second and third tier FAs...I would look into them in order to address depth, but I'd keep those contracts short and team friendly.
Draft well and play the kids. It will pay off when the team is ready to compete, which it is not at the moment (something that doesn't appear to have been accepted by the front office is the rumors are to be believed).
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In comment 14313561 Go Terps said:
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but this approach feels like the same thing Reese did...see hole, plug hole. It's basically Whac-A-Mole or Battleship.
Huh? Are you saying we shouldn't address glaring needs in FA? Name one team that doesn't use FA to address needs.
It's the same thing Reese did in 2016. Gettleman is in the process of just reallocating that to new guys, and in 3 years we'll more than likely be talking about how much dead cap space we'll have to take on in order to be unburdened by their contracts.
If I were Gettleman I wouldn't get involved in the premium FA market. The second and third tier FAs...I would look into them in order to address depth, but I'd keep those contracts short and team friendly.
Draft well and play the kids. It will pay off when the team is ready to compete, which it is not at the moment (something that doesn't appear to have been accepted by the front office is the rumors are to be believed).
Then you'll complain that we keep losing because we are starting street free agents all over the place. 2016 is not what Gettlemam is doing unless he is handing them top dollar at the position.
I like how you say that it'll pay off when the team is ready to compete but in the next 3 years we'll have to listen to you and others just criticize how fuckin bad we are. Do you not realize that Reese's drafts have sucked fod like a decade. That isn't going to change in one or two drafts. You yourself have criticized Gettleman's draft last year. Now you want him to limit himself to one way to get talent? Every team fills needs via FA. Every team. Maybe you don't like the lengths of the contracts or the amounts or both but that is an entirely different conversation.
x100
Not at first he didnt. He said sed a hole, fill a hole. He did say not to give out big deals but then in the same breath said he'd be giving out basically one year deals.
I am not opposed to staying oit of the first round of FA when premiums are paid but OL are few and far between. I want Williams. Outside of him, who is to say these other pass rushers are getting big deals?
I can take losing if I feel like we're building up to something, and if I feel like in the meantime the team is well coached.
That's not what is going on here. The team is poorly coached, and the front office is acting like we're a reload away from competing for a title.
Exactly. Why should they get big contracts?
Come play with our aging 38 year old QB in a division with two teams with younger, play-making QBs and better rosters?
I can take losing if I feel like we're building up to something, and if I feel like in the meantime the team is well coached.
That's not what is going on here. The team is poorly coached, and the front office is acting like we're a reload away from competing for a title.
How do you know our tackles won't be playing at top level? Williams was one of the best RTs in the game in 2017 before getting injured last year. Solder after he settled in was playing very well. Did you not see the results in our PPG or do you just dismiss everything you don't agree with?
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In comment 14313561 Go Terps said:
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but this approach feels like the same thing Reese did...see hole, plug hole. It's basically Whac-A-Mole or Battleship.
Huh? Are you saying we shouldn't address glaring needs in FA? Name one team that doesn't use FA to address needs.
It's the same thing Reese did in 2016. Gettleman is in the process of just reallocating that to new guys, and in 3 years we'll more than likely be talking about how much dead cap space we'll have to take on in order to be unburdened by their contracts.
If I were Gettleman I wouldn't get involved in the premium FA market. The second and third tier FAs...I would look into them in order to address depth, but I'd keep those contracts short and team friendly.
Draft well and play the kids. It will pay off when the team is ready to compete, which it is not at the moment (something that doesn't appear to have been accepted by the front office is the rumors are to be believed).
With the exception of Williams (maybe), these players are second/third second tier FAs. Lawrence, Ford, Clowney are the top tier guys.
Right . These contracts may not be anything resembling mega-deals
If that's how it plays out, then great. But I'm not OK paying Golden or Smith $10M a year.
Come play with our aging 38 year old QB in a division with two teams with younger, play-making QBs and better rosters?
One of those QBs is always hurt and not liked in his locker room. The other is Dak Prescott. Its still a viable pitch.
All guys with vital roles in NYG winning Super Bowls.
So let's not pretend Reese didn't do anything good via free agency, and let's also not pretend that anything Gettleman does is automatically equivalent to Reese's failures.
There are only 3 other RTs averaging over $8M per: Ricky Wagner, Donald Penn, and Rob Havenstein.
Combine that with Williams' injury and I can see him getting 5 yrs/$30-35M with $15M gtd. That's about half what Solder got.
Howd that work in 2005? Second year in with the new HC and staff. Two years removed from a near scorched earth policy. Signed some ascending and highly priced FAs to fill holes. The rest is history.
You basically hate everything this franchise does and it starts and ends with their decison to stick with Eli. You refuse to allow for any further open minded discussion because they are going with Eli. Perhaps you need to make peace with the fact that the giants think they can win with him if they fix the team around him. This is not an abstract belief even though many fans think otherwise. Jobs are at stake. Legacies are at stake. It the giants can upgrade the qb position with a draft pick that not only makes sense, doesnt come at the expense of a generational talent (Barkley) they will take the shot. You have to just accept this and move on.
Its a new regime with different philosophies.
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With the exception of Williams (maybe), these players are second/third second tier FAs. Lawrence, Ford, Clowney are the top tier guys.
If that's how it plays out, then great. But I'm not OK paying Golden or Smith $10M a year.
Top tier edge rushers now get ~$20M per season. If you want to sign a 2nd tier guy, expect it to cost $12-15M per, and 3rd tier guys are probably in the $8-12M range. There are 26 edge players (as Spotrac defines them) that make >$10M per season.
Smith is getting at least 3rd tier money, and possibly 2nd tier money from someone. Golden I think can be had for $4-6M per but he's a much bigger risk with his injury.
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In comment 14313561 Go Terps said:
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but this approach feels like the same thing Reese did...see hole, plug hole. It's basically Whac-A-Mole or Battleship.
Huh? Are you saying we shouldn't address glaring needs in FA? Name one team that doesn't use FA to address needs.
It's the same thing Reese did in 2016. Gettleman is in the process of just reallocating that to new guys, and in 3 years we'll more than likely be talking about how much dead cap space we'll have to take on in order to be unburdened by their contracts.
If I were Gettleman I wouldn't get involved in the premium FA market. The second and third tier FAs...I would look into them in order to address depth, but I'd keep those contracts short and team friendly.
Draft well and play the kids. It will pay off when the team is ready to compete, which it is not at the moment (something that doesn't appear to have been accepted by the front office is the rumors are to be believed).
The dead space hasnt even really hurt us. Bad coaching and bad drafts hurt us.
The salary cap lamenting is low hanging fruit and lazy.
The dead space hasnt even really hurt us. Bad coaching and bad drafts hurt us.
The salary cap lamenting is low hanging fruit and lazy.
The handwringing over Stewart (and guys like Barwin) is ridiculous, but some of the large contracts like Vernon have definitely hurt. Just look at the crap we had at FS last season. You don't think they could've found someone better to play there with a few extra million in cap space?
But GoTerps FA strategy isn't one to follow either, especially when you realize the dollars he wants to spend are more likely to get you 3rd/4th tier players (at best) than the "2nd tier" players he thinks they'll attract. The 2nd/3rd wave of FA is how you get guys like John Jerry, Stewart, and Omameh.
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The dead space hasnt even really hurt us. Bad coaching and bad drafts hurt us.
The salary cap lamenting is low hanging fruit and lazy.
The handwringing over Stewart (and guys like Barwin) is ridiculous, but some of the large contracts like Vernon have definitely hurt. Just look at the crap we had at FS last season. You don't think they could've found someone better to play there with a few extra million in cap space?
But GoTerps FA strategy isn't one to follow either, especially when you realize the dollars he wants to spend are more likely to get you 3rd/4th tier players (at best) than the "2nd tier" players he thinks they'll attract. The 2nd/3rd wave of FA is how you get guys like John Jerry, Stewart, and Omameh.
Has vernons contract really hurt us? What hurt us more than anything was Vernon missing five games in 2018. Did the contract hurt in 2016? Guy was second team all pro.
If they cut him and eat the money it will sting for a year but then the money is clear.
What hurts more than anything is good players get hurt. That has nothing to do with the contract.
Why? So we cant point to an offense that improved dramatically as the season progressed? The offense from September to December literally went from bad to good. It was a new staff. New players. How the fuck can we not point to those facts and believe that the offense might be good next season? No one is saying its a virtual lock but there are plenty of signs to believe the offense is closer to good than bad. And its not like the offense did this with smoke and mirrors. They did it on the backs of star power.
Come play with our aging 38 year old QB in a division with two teams with younger, play-making QBs and better rosters?
You really are a treasure. Ask every single writer or sports talkie and they all say with absolute certainty that the giants are a prefered destination for any and all. Every young qb in the draft(s) goes out of their way to proclaim their desire to play here.
Even when the media made shit up because they hated coughlin the players came here in droves.
Trolling at its finest. Now I know why you disappeared during the golden era here from 05-12. The giants were good so you had nothing to say.
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makes me wonder if this person thinks of the cap reality or not. I do expect them to pursue Golden and Williams.
not necessarily if they let OV go.
It depends what they cost, of course. Golden needs to demonstrate he's back, the other is an ascending player they might be able to get and not spend top open market dollars on both. But, they've also still got Martin out there, and a lot of other holes across the roster to fill. Not as simple as remove OV, pay two new dudes.
This is absolutely not true. I've read or listened to about ten sources this offseason that think the Giants are a behind the times joke.
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these days?
Come play with our aging 38 year old QB in a division with two teams with younger, play-making QBs and better rosters?
You really are a treasure. Ask every single writer or sports talkie and they all say with absolute certainty that the giants are a prefered destination for any and all. Every young qb in the draft(s) goes out of their way to proclaim their desire to play here.
Even when the media made shit up because they hated coughlin the players came here in droves.
Trolling at its finest. Now I know why you disappeared during the golden era here from 05-12. The giants were good so you had nothing to say.
I'm not talking about rookie QBs. I'm talking about veteran football players right now.
This is different now that Eli is at a stage of his career when he's pushing forty and the team can't get out of its own way. This "golden era" to which you refer - btw, that is laughable, the real "golden era" was '84 to '90 - at least had a QB in his prime and a proven HC.
Not sure why that is so difficult to discern.
Calling it trolling is just lazy. It's a legit question from my perspective - how do you sell an organization right now in transition, but with no transition plan really in place?
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In comment 14313549 JonC said:
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makes me wonder if this person thinks of the cap reality or not. I do expect them to pursue Golden and Williams.
not necessarily if they let OV go.
It depends what they cost, of course. Golden needs to demonstrate he's back, the other is an ascending player they might be able to get and not spend top open market dollars on both. But, they've also still got Martin out there, and a lot of other holes across the roster to fill. Not as simple as remove OV, pay two new dudes.
Never that simple but as we've seen when teams are up against the cap and have a ton of $$$ coming off the books in a year or two , the contracts are structured for a lower year 1 hit. Giants have done this before.
If they want to contend next year the FA route for the D is likely the best way to go to buck the learning curve. As opposed to the offense which is almost complete from being quite dynamic in almost every area. (One or two OL away).
Before Ricks report came out , this is kind of what I felt when I was analyzing the roster the last few weeks.
If next years objective is to compete for the playoffs and maybe more with Manning (which it seems to be), then you bring in some mid level vets on D in key spots. You solidify the biggest weakness on O (Right Tackle with hopefully a vet) and bring in hopefully another OL on day 2 in this super deep OL draft.
In regards to OV, OV has rarely gotten home on the pass rush and doesn't play well when dinged up (which is like every year).
Switch him out for a player (like Golden and/or Smith) and structure the contract(s) as a lower cap hit year 1.
OV is the big one now. It took JPP to be traded to play to his. Harrison was but we have Dalvin and BJ Hill now (much cheaper). Jack Rabbit has in his first year but has been up and down lately. Think we ride him another year hoping he returns to form.
It's a fundamentally worthless indicator of nothing. They say that about any and every team they're asked about, not just the Giants. Excepting the Browns given their history.
Find me a draft pick that says they don't want to play there, and I'll show you a draft pick that's risking draft position and money and rounds of media criticism and to be labeled as a character concern. It's pure self-interest to be nothing but highly complementary of any projected team you could be drafted by.
@art_stapleton
45m45 minutes ago
Another thing you hear from people around the league at the Combine: Giants don't talk free agency until the tampering period begins. It's very, very rare.
So any rumors you hear to the contrary on that front, it's connecting dots more than anything else.
I've been flat-out told by agents since I've been on the beat: "Giants do not talk free agency other than their own FA until it's allowed."
It's a fundamentally worthless indicator of nothing. They say that about any and every team they're asked about, not just the Giants. Excepting the Browns given their history.
Find me a draft pick that says they don't want to play there, and I'll show you a draft pick that's risking draft position and money and rounds of media criticism and to be labeled as a character concern. It's pure self-interest to be nothing but highly complementary of any projected team you could be drafted by.
Eli Manning - SD?
Yup - that's going to happen a lot in FA this year to the Giants I think. The Giants will be forced to scrape the bottom of the barrel. That's not to say they won't find some good players - hopefully they can uncover a few diamonds in the rough...but the thought of the Giants landing guys like Williams or the pass rushers without overpaying seems shortsighted.
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With the exception of Williams (maybe), these players are second/third second tier FAs. Lawrence, Ford, Clowney are the top tier guys.
If that's how it plays out, then great. But I'm not OK paying Golden or Smith $10M a year.
Holy Shit...me neither. I was thinking $6M/year
Realistically those guys MIGHT get us 1 or 2 more wins over a rookie next year or another cheaper FA.
Now, if those 1-2 more wins is the difference between sitting home and making the playoffs, then it is worth it. Im not sure that is the Giants current situation.
Career Sacks
Kennard - 9.5
Smith - 18.5
Career QBHits
Kennard - 22
Smith - 53
Career TFL
Kennard - 23
Smith - 24
Career Sacks
Kennard - 9.5
Smith - 18.5
Career QBHits
Kennard - 22
Smith - 53
Career TFL
Kennard - 23
Smith - 24
Great analysis - I would imagine that the numbers to sign, what might be the top OT in the FA class would be even more daunting.
But don't worry - we'll just back load both contracts and get it done ;)
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if he'd like to play in NY, what do you think he's going to say?
It's a fundamentally worthless indicator of nothing. They say that about any and every team they're asked about, not just the Giants. Excepting the Browns given their history.
Find me a draft pick that says they don't want to play there, and I'll show you a draft pick that's risking draft position and money and rounds of media criticism and to be labeled as a character concern. It's pure self-interest to be nothing but highly complementary of any projected team you could be drafted by.
Eli Manning - SD?
Yes, and I would think we'd all remember the firestorm of criticism that came down on the player for that. A player that doesn't have a famous last name as a shield takes a bigger hit. Falling out of the top 5 of a draft can cost millions.
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you're not paying attention. Devon Kennard just signed for $6M per season last year. Both are entering UFA after their 4th season at age 26. Kennard's #s are for when he hit UFA last year.
Career Sacks
Kennard - 9.5
Smith - 18.5
Career QBHits
Kennard - 22
Smith - 53
Career TFL
Kennard - 23
Smith - 24
Great analysis - I would imagine that the numbers to sign, what might be the top OT in the FA class would be even more daunting.
But don't worry - we'll just back load both contracts and get it done ;)
I assume you're referring to Daryl Williams. Being a RT only and coming off injury will help keep his contract down.
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Ask every single writer or sports talkie and they all say with absolute certainty that the giants are a prefered destination for any and all.
This is absolutely not true. I've read or listened to about ten sources this offseason that think the Giants are a behind the times joke.
I dont buy it. Who? And thats not the same thing even if its true. You said the giants arent a preferred destination.
Doesnt matter Im sure you will find something else wrong.
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In comment 14313637 bw in dc said:
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these days?
Come play with our aging 38 year old QB in a division with two teams with younger, play-making QBs and better rosters?
You really are a treasure. Ask every single writer or sports talkie and they all say with absolute certainty that the giants are a prefered destination for any and all. Every young qb in the draft(s) goes out of their way to proclaim their desire to play here.
Even when the media made shit up because they hated coughlin the players came here in droves.
Trolling at its finest. Now I know why you disappeared during the golden era here from 05-12. The giants were good so you had nothing to say.
I'm not talking about rookie QBs. I'm talking about veteran football players right now.
This is different now that Eli is at a stage of his career when he's pushing forty and the team can't get out of its own way. This "golden era" to which you refer - btw, that is laughable, the real "golden era" was '84 to '90 - at least had a QB in his prime and a proven HC.
Not sure why that is so difficult to discern.
Calling it trolling is just lazy. It's a legit question from my perspective - how do you sell an organization right now in transition, but with no transition plan really in place?
Keep walking it back. You said that players dont want to come here. Now youre softening the blow and saying the giants dont have a transition plan in place.
Players will come here. They came here last year. Its all about the money.
And Im sorry but if you think a stud defensive player wont come here becsuse the giants didnt draft Sam fucking darnold and instead took everyones favorite player in Barkley youre insane.
It's a fundamentally worthless indicator of nothing. They say that about any and every team they're asked about, not just the Giants. Excepting the Browns given their history.
Find me a draft pick that says they don't want to play there, and I'll show you a draft pick that's risking draft position and money and rounds of media criticism and to be labeled as a character concern. It's pure self-interest to be nothing but highly complementary of any projected team you could be drafted by.
Hey dont look at me I didnt try to dumb this thread down. I simply responded to more horse shit. The legion of doom insistence that the giants are no longer a prefered destination or that the entire nfl world views them as a behind the times relic. Why? Because they didnt reach for a qb in last years draft.
And were splitting hairs over this golden age crap. 05-2012 was fucking great. Call it whatever you want but two titles and five playoff appearances is great. I wasnt talking about the last 6-7 years obviously these havent been so good.
I'm not talking about rookie QBs. I'm talking about veteran football players right now.
This is different now that Eli is at a stage of his career when he's pushing forty and the team can't get out of its own way. This "golden era" to which you refer - btw, that is laughable, the real "golden era" was '84 to '90 - at least had a QB in his prime and a proven HC.
Not sure why that is so difficult to discern.
Calling it trolling is just lazy. It's a legit question from my perspective - how do you sell an organization right now in transition, but with no transition plan really in place?
Keep walking it back. You said that players dont want to come here. Now youre softening the blow and saying the giants dont have a transition plan in place.
Players will come here. They came here last year. Its all about the money.
And Im sorry but if you think a stud defensive player wont come here becsuse the giants didnt draft Sam fucking darnold and instead took everyones favorite player in Barkley youre insane.
I'm not walking anything back because there is no need.
But let me help here. The OP opened a thread about free agents rumored to be coming here, nothing about rookies and their interests.
Which led me to simply ask - why come to the NYG when there is so much uncertainty, an aging QB, and a division with two loaded teams? So how exactly do you sell those circumstances?
Quote:
I'm not talking about rookie QBs. I'm talking about veteran football players right now.
This is different now that Eli is at a stage of his career when he's pushing forty and the team can't get out of its own way. This "golden era" to which you refer - btw, that is laughable, the real "golden era" was '84 to '90 - at least had a QB in his prime and a proven HC.
Not sure why that is so difficult to discern.
Calling it trolling is just lazy. It's a legit question from my perspective - how do you sell an organization right now in transition, but with no transition plan really in place?
Keep walking it back. You said that players dont want to come here. Now youre softening the blow and saying the giants dont have a transition plan in place.
Players will come here. They came here last year. Its all about the money.
And Im sorry but if you think a stud defensive player wont come here becsuse the giants didnt draft Sam fucking darnold and instead took everyones favorite player in Barkley youre insane.
I'm not walking anything back because there is no need.
But let me help here. The OP opened a thread about free agents rumored to be coming here, nothing about rookies and their interests.
Which led me to simply ask - why come to the NYG when there is so much uncertainty, an aging QB, and a division with two loaded teams? So how exactly do you sell those circumstances?
BW its all about the $$$$