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Hypothetical Question... You're the Chief's GM.....

JohnB : 3/9/2019 10:06 am
And let’s say that Andy Reid couldn’t coach anymore, for whatever reason…. say medical reasons. So, you’re the GM of the Chiefs and you have to go looking for a new HC. In your search you find one, a real good one, one whom you think can be a winning coach. But there is one problem, you know that this person and Patrick Mahomes will NOT get along. They are oil and water, they will not mix, it will not be a good working relationship under any conditions. Their playing styles are completely different, their personalities clash. It just won’t work. So here’s the question:

Option #1 - Do you hire the new person and trade away Patrick Mahomes?

Option #2 - Or do you keep Patrick Mahomes and pass on this person and look for someone who will work well with Mahomes?

Before you start flaming away at me for asking such a stupid question, remember that the Arizona Cardinals are at this very crossroads and are choosing Option #1. Either the Cardinals are VERY stupid or they know Josh Rosen is NOT worth keeping. If he was worth keeping, they would have chosen Option #2. They didn’t.

Hiring Kingsbury says loud and clear that Josh Rosen isn’t worth keeping, he’s not worth investing in, he’s not worth building a team around. If he was, Kingsbury wouldn’t have been their choice, they would have found someone who could work with Rosen.

Why do Giant fans want to spend a high draft choice on a reject of the Arizona Cardinals?

You don't hire a coach that can't coach your pro bowl QB  
BillT : 3/9/2019 10:08 am : link
That's nuts. Coaches are easier to get than pro bowl QBs.
Smart Giants would only spend a later round pick on Rosen  
GiantGolfer : 3/9/2019 10:10 am : link
due to the concussion history, character issues and questionable desire to play in the NFL.

Everyone else lives in a fantasy world of stats and Madden 19.
Smart Giants fans*  
GiantGolfer : 3/9/2019 10:10 am : link
.
And your speculation on Rosen is off bas  
BillT : 3/9/2019 10:10 am : link
It isn't that Kingsbury can't get along with Rosen it's that they think Murray is a far better QB prospect and they're probably right. As Rosen is a tradable asset moving on makes sense.
Comparing Reid and Kingsbury  
Default : 3/9/2019 10:11 am : link
And Rosen and Mahomes is stupid.

Not to mention the Cardinals organization to the Chiefs organization.
off base  
BillT : 3/9/2019 10:11 am : link
.
RE: You don't hire a coach that can't coach your pro bowl QB  
Steve in ATL : 3/9/2019 10:11 am : link
In comment 14321930 BillT said:
Quote:
That's nuts. Coaches are easier to get than pro bowl QBs.


Well said.
Why can't Kingsbury and Rosen get along?  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/9/2019 10:15 am : link
Did I miss an article where there is a rift?
You keep Mahomes.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/9/2019 10:19 am : link
And you don't think twice.
The Cardinals might be the worst run team  
Big Rick in FL : 3/9/2019 10:20 am : link
In the entire NFL. Definitely wouldn't give up on Rosen, because of the choices the Cardinals make.

Just look at their roster. It's WAY worse then the Giants (We suck). They gave Bradford a 20 million dollar deal. They hired Mike McCoy and fired him after 7 weeks. They fired Steve Wilks after 1 season in charge. Their best offensive player is a 35 year old WR. Outside of him they have one of the most talent depletes teams in the entire NFL. Their 2016 & 2017 drafts were terrible. Bruce Arians retired to get out of there. Pat Peterson asked for a trade. They are a complete mess. Not to mention the hiring of a HC who wasn't even successful in college. Have they done anything right in the last 3 years?
It's a vision thing  
Gruber : 3/9/2019 10:28 am : link
It's not that Kingsbury and Rosen don't get along, it's that Kingsbury is all over Kyler Murray.
Okay, it may also be that the Cards haven't thought it through or are so smitten with Kingsbury that they are all in on his vision, which has Murray at the centre of it, and sees Rosen's style as unsuited to that kind of offense.
Kingsbury Has an Offensive System...  
Jim in Tampa : 3/9/2019 10:33 am : link
Like all offensive coaches and as I've posted before (from QB guru Greg Cosell) "Coaches have systems and coaches coach what they know."

That means Kingsbury is not going to change HIS system to fit a second year QB, when he can get a QB like Murray that fits his system to a tee. It's also been reported that Kingsbury has long been enamored with Murray and tried to recruit him when he (Kingsbury) was a college HC.

Of course this doesn't mean that there are no issues with Rosen. There absolutely could be. But posters who point to Kingsbury wanting Murray to run his offense as proof positive that Rosen isn't worth acquiring are way off base.
That's a lot of writing for nothing.  
robbieballs2003 : 3/9/2019 10:34 am : link
Did KC have one of the worst OL's in the league. Was KC the worst team in the league? These are two totally different situations. I cannot even give you an A for effort.
RE: You keep Mahomes.  
montanagiant : 3/9/2019 10:36 am : link
In comment 14321951 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
And you don't think twice.

Exactly
Rosen relationship with ownership must have soured  
George from PA : 3/9/2019 11:01 am : link
I made this point when Murray going one started.

No way did arizona hire a coach that said he couldn't win with Rosen.

I do not doubt he perfers Murray but Rosen relationship with mgt. must have soured for this kind of move.
RE: Rosen relationship with ownership must have soured  
robbieballs2003 : 3/9/2019 11:04 am : link
In comment 14321998 George from PA said:
Quote:
I made this point when Murray going one started.

No way did arizona hire a coach that said he couldn't win with Rosen.

I do not doubt he perfers Murray but Rosen relationship with mgt. must have soured for this kind of move.


Don't know how true that is. They had a hard time finding a HC.
RE: RE: Rosen relationship with ownership must have soured  
GFAN52 : 3/9/2019 11:07 am : link
In comment 14322001 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
In comment 14321998 George from PA said:


Quote:


I made this point when Murray going one started.

No way did arizona hire a coach that said he couldn't win with Rosen.

I do not doubt he perfers Murray but Rosen relationship with mgt. must have soured for this kind of move.



Don't know how true that is. They had a hard time finding a HC.


This. The Cardinals have not been a well run organization for a very long time, and coaches around the NFL probably know this as well.
I'm neutral as far as Rosen  
mrvax : 3/9/2019 11:11 am : link
to the Giants. If they really value him with a 2nd rounder, then go for it.

Option #2 is the way to go. Mahomes is among the best NFL QBs and he's young. Rosen's 1st season cannot be compared to Mahomes, it's just not fair. Mahomes is light years ahead of Rosen at this point.

Good HC's are hard to find but young, outstanding QBs may be even harder. What if you went option #1 and the QB the new HC brought in just wasn't very good?
man the tortured logic people employ  
bluepepper : 3/9/2019 11:16 am : link
to prove their points. I mean, you don't want Rosen. Okay, fine. Not sure I want him either but the fact that the Cards hired a new coach who prefers another QB means little to me. You don't let other teams make your personnel decisions for you especially a team that's one of the least respected franchises in the NFL and is relying on the evaluations of a guy with no NFL coaching experience who failed as a college coach.
RE: man the tortured logic people employ  
mrvax : 3/9/2019 11:23 am : link
In comment 14322013 bluepepper said:
Quote:
... Not sure I want him either but the fact that the Cards hired a new coach who prefers another QB means little to me...


Agree. It's simple. The new coach wants Murray to run HIS offense and believes Murray has the skill set to do that.
I don't see Rosen as having an issue with his team.
Except rosen didn’t set the NFL on fire like mahomes did  
djm : 3/9/2019 11:25 am : link
No comparison between the two situations.

And with that said, I tell this prospective HC to fuck off and I live and die with mahomes. Mahomes is a known commodity. The weird HC who doesn’t want to work with an mvp talent isn’t.

I get the exercise but it’s a ridiculous one. No HC alive is turning his back on mahomes.
There are 32 NFL teams.....  
George from PA : 3/9/2019 11:54 am : link
No matter how poorly a team is run.....they have no short list of HCs.

Being a Cardinals HC is a highly desired post.
Rosen has character issues  
joeinpa : 3/9/2019 12:57 pm : link
And a questionable desire to be a football player?

Are these well documented facts or talking pts?

What about the beating he took last season confirms his lack of desire.

The kid comes from a well to do family, and is opinionated. This is a negative how?

You also can’t really judge rosen solely on last season  
djm : 3/9/2019 1:11 pm : link
Any qb the giants employ for 2019 and beyond is going to be placed in an enviable position. They are going to be placed in a position to succeed. If I’m the giants I use that to my advantage. Don’t handle this with fear or trepidation. If the qb fails next year it’s on him.
Mahomes is the league MVP...  
Chris in Philly : 3/9/2019 1:45 pm : link
Nobody else in the entire analogy belongs in the same sentence. So therefore the analogy is a poor one. May god have mercy on your soul.
35-40, 19-35 in-conference, in six years.....  
MOOPS : 3/9/2019 3:57 pm : link
at Texas Tech. The guy's a proven winner. You give him anything he wants.
This is an extremely flawed premise.  
Section331 : 3/9/2019 5:15 pm : link
Mahoney is one of the best players in the league, even Rosen’s most ardent defenders wouldn’t put Rosen that high. Look at it this way, Alex Smith was a fine player, but that didn’t stop the Chiefs from taking Mahomes.
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