for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Defense, Defense, Defense

gidiefor : Mod : 3/10/2019 10:13 pm
Notwithstanding the QB debate, If I'm the Giants right now, I think the next move is to secure a reasonable Right Tackle, and then use the rest of my money (smartly and not on big Ks) and draft resources on the defense.

Don't get me wrong -- I am not complaining about cutting Collins or Vernon loose.

Given the state of the Roster and the budget, I think you need to go young. Spend the entire draft on defense. Sign some Betcher guys. Put together an active young unit that can hustle around the field and play together with a few prototypes up front. In short: Go Terps the defense. I don't think you spend money on big contracts here. You want to develop a hungry player mentality.

Look at the Giants Defensive Roster right now. You basically have:

DT - Tomlinson and an UFA

DE - BJ Hill and RJ McIntosh and two UFAs

ILB - Ogletree and Goodson and a few UFAs
OLB - Kareem Martin, L. Carter, A Moss and some UFAs

CB Jenkins, Haley, Beal and some UFAs
S all UFAs including Thomas
FE - all UFAs including Chandler and a waiver PU

I'm also starting to develop the mindset that maybe it would be better to trade a pick from next year on Rosen instead of using a #1 pic on Haskins (if that's possible).

Some of this year's draft ERs (the strength of this Draft) need to be sprinkled into this Giants roster. Use it to get an ER or two (or three - one from the first round), a DT or two, a LB or 2, and a DB or two.

Sign a reasonable FA Safety, Free Safety, LB or two and re-sign Wynn and Mauro....
....  
ryanmkeane : 3/10/2019 10:18 pm : link
DL-Adderley rounds 1-2
RE: ....  
Photoguy : 3/10/2019 10:21 pm : link
In comment 14323330 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
DL-Adderley rounds 1-2


I don't know if Adderley will make it to #37.
Photo  
ryanmkeane : 3/10/2019 10:28 pm : link
most likely not! But if so I think he’s a great pick there
I agree  
Rjanyg : 3/10/2019 10:34 pm : link
But I expect a vet ER/OLB to be signed along with a FS. Maybe a CB.

Right Tackle should be the main target in free agency.

Depending on the QB plan, ER or 5 Tech could be a target in round 1.

Looking forward to tomorrow.
There's thin and then there's the Giants depth on defense  
GFAN52 : 3/10/2019 10:42 pm : link
.
...  
christian : 3/10/2019 10:46 pm : link
Gidie -- I was starting a similar thread.

I've posted this a couple of times. Gettleman purged the defensive roster -- and a number of the replacement were 1 year filler.

As it stands this is the least talented Giants defense I can remember.

B.J. Hill
Dalvin Tomnlinson
?
Kareem Martin
B.J. Goodson
Alec Ogletree
Lorezo Carter
?
Jenoris Jenkins
?
?
Eight  
BlueManCrew : 3/10/2019 11:04 pm : link
Of the giants losses in 2018 were 7 points or less. Invest in the defense, we will win at least half of those and be very competitive in the 9-10 win range.
Gidiefor: agree but Zeitler for Vernon is not getting younger  
Ivan15 : 3/10/2019 11:06 pm : link
And the free agent who will take whatever money they would have paid Collins is not getting younger either.
I think they may have a similar  
kes722 : 3/10/2019 11:09 pm : link
View as Dallas did a few years ago..

Build OL to Elite status while building an avg D..

Hold the ball for most of the game with a top flight run game and an above avg Passing and you can hide a bad defence.. Pat's have had a similar strategy for years but Bradys short game supplements the running game

Only thing that is different between us and Dallsd is we have an aging but still 2 time Superbowl MVP and a far more dynamic back

I think if done correctly this could be a fun team to watch
RE: Gidiefor: agree but Zeitler for Vernon is not getting younger  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/10/2019 11:11 pm : link
In comment 14323365 Ivan15 said:
Quote:
And the free agent who will take whatever money they would have paid Collins is not getting younger either.


Zeitler for Vernon was an offensive move - the Offense is a different mindset than the defense

I'm forecasting a youth movement for the defense -- the offense should be a pretty decent offense by adding a RT

it's the defense that really needs an infusion right now and with Betcher is ripe for a youth movement
RE: RE: Gidiefor: agree but Zeitler for Vernon is not getting younger  
kes722 : 3/10/2019 11:20 pm : link
In comment 14323370 gidiefor said:
Quote:
In comment 14323365 Ivan15 said:


Quote:



Agreed... FA is about OL and maybe a few savvy vets on D while most of the draft will be O... wild card being the 6th overall...could go OL,QB ( BOO), DL, DB And the free agent who will take whatever money they would have paid Collins is not getting younger either.



Zeitler for Vernon was an offensive move - the Offense is a different mindset than the defense

I'm forecasting a youth movement for the defense -- the offense should be a pretty decent offense by adding a RT

it's the defense that really needs an infusion right now and with Betcher is ripe for a youth movement
My phone fucks up quotes every  
kes722 : 3/10/2019 11:20 pm : link
Mother fucking time
Should have said  
kes722 : 3/10/2019 11:21 pm : link
Agreed... FA is about OL and maybe a few savvy vets on D while most of the draft will be O... wild card being the 6th overall...could go OL,QB ( BOO), DL, DB 
All the defense needs to do is hold opponents to 39 ...  
Boy Cord : 3/10/2019 11:26 pm : link
... points a game. The offense has got this.
RE: Should have said  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/10/2019 11:27 pm : link
In comment 14323377 kes722 said:
Quote:
Agreed... FA is about OL and maybe a few savvy vets on D while most of the draft will be O... wild card being the 6th overall...could go OL,QB ( BOO), DL, DB 


I'm saying spend the draft on D
I suspect that aside from QB and OL the rest of our picks  
yatqb : 3/10/2019 11:29 pm : link
and FAs will be on defense ( aside from those minimum signings we can cut without major hits financially).
No-- do not go all defense  
giantstock : 3/11/2019 2:00 am : link
Even if you don;t take a QB in rd 1- you have to consider what are the chances someone from OLINE gets hurt? You build a good OLINe by having depth.
RT and...  
Torrag : 3/11/2019 2:06 am : link
...defense, defense, defense...
RE: RT and...  
BlueLou'sBack : 3/11/2019 2:15 am : link
In comment 14323430 Torrag said:
Quote:
...defense, defense, defense...


I am beginning to think... maybe DG doesn't OVERTHINK things and just grabs Jonah Williams, OT 'Bama, at 6. Or whomever he rates the top OT. JW is supposedly a plug and play starter at OT, particularly on the right side, and he can toil there for 3-4 years before replacing Solder on the left side, (if Solder holds up that long.) Williams played the RT position for a year before bouncing over to LT, right?

And Williams is from Folsom, CA, where I am currently abiding, for short while. I suppose draft day here in Folsom will get pretty hoppy if their local boy goes # 6 overall.

Early on during the championship game, the 'Bama OL was sticking it to that vaunted Clemson DL, and Bama was running the ball down their throats.

And recently I'm reading this comparison, that Williams' NFL comp is Joe Thomas. Seriously Joe Thomas? I'd sign on for that in a nanosecond.
I think the first 2 picks  
TrueBlue56 : 3/11/2019 2:20 am : link
Will be defense. The value is there in this draft to go defense. We will most likely add a right tackle in free agency as well as a safety.

In a short amount of time gettleman has turned over this roster and is starting to build it up to what he envisions. If we can add 2 players through the draft on defense to be impact players (similar to Hernandez) then we will have something to work with.

I don't think the cardinals will draft Murray and Rosen will not be available for a trade. I Don't think the giants would be interested in Rosen if he was available anyway.

We will see how it all plays out soon enough
We don't just need players to improve the Defense  
Jimmy Googs : 3/11/2019 6:42 am : link
we need a lot of players just to start 11 of them...
RE: We don't just need players to improve the Defense  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/11/2019 6:45 am : link
In comment 14323471 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
we need a lot of players just to start 11 of them...


yes -- this is true -- the list above does not equate to an adequate starting defense
Ivan,  
Big Blue '56 : 3/11/2019 7:04 am : link
Zeitler at 29 is kinda young as OL can and do play effectively into their mid 30s. Some even later than that.
I know I’m the minority thinker ...  
Spider56 : 3/11/2019 7:43 am : link
but if you want to fix the defense (and I hope we do), we need to trade OBJ for at least 3 top 100 picks ... and trade down a few spots from #6 to add more.

This looks to be a deep defensive draft and having 6 or so picks in the top 100 could make things right in a hurry.

The alternative is our bunch of late round picks, a thick rug and rosary beads.
RE: RE: RT and...  
Boatie Warrant : 3/11/2019 8:02 am : link
Quote:
And Williams is from Folsom, CA, where I am currently abiding, for short while. I suppose draft day here in Folsom will get pretty hoppy if their local boy goes # 6 overall.


You living in a small room with a good view and 3 square meals a day? Not much in Folsom
RE: I know I’m the minority thinker ...  
section125 : 3/11/2019 8:49 am : link
In comment 14323492 Spider56 said:
Quote:
but if you want to fix the defense (and I hope we do), we need to trade OBJ for at least 3 top 100 picks ... and trade down a few spots from #6 to add more.



There is a reason that this is a minority view....

1.) you are robbing Peter to pat Paul

2.) you are not getting 3 top 100 picks for Odell
No OL worth the pick at #6  
JonC : 3/11/2019 8:52 am : link
They're looking RT via UFA early, as well as safety positions. They'll sign an ER if one like Smith is a good value, don't look for a Brinks level signing.
Draft will feature  
JonC : 3/11/2019 8:52 am : link
a lot of investment in the defense and hopefully a WR with #2 potential.
They can go young at defense  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/11/2019 8:54 am : link
it doesn't mean they're gonna be good though. The only thing that's going to cover up for the lack of talent on the defensive side of the ball is one hell of a pass rush that isn't walking through that door.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/11/2019 8:55 am : link
Just focus on adding the best football players possible - as soon as you pigeonhole yourself into a strategy weighting the weaker part of a football team, you usually wind up just doing this back and forth on each side every couple years.

After 2015, we were basically in this same boat with the defense. We were desperate for help.

The big spending did turn into a top 5 unit and an 11 win team, but it didn't last - because units built through FA typically won't when they aren't supplemented with the right young talent.

We need to infuse as many good football players as we can.

If that means making a strength stronger - do it. We need to improve the defense, I think that's a "no, duh.." but I wouldn't add value to defensive players simply because they're defenders.
RE: Draft will feature  
The_Boss : 3/11/2019 9:06 am : link
In comment 14323570 JonC said:
Quote:
a lot of investment in the defense and hopefully a WR with #2 potential.


You think a WR2 is more pressing than an upgrade at Center? I’m thinking # 37, in particular, is right in the sweet spot for a plug and play OC in this draft. I would then use the rest to add depth all over the roster. It all can’t be fixed in 2 offseasons. We could get by with the WR’s we have now for one more year.
There may not even be a center in this draft people think can play  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/11/2019 9:09 am : link
early. There isn't one every year.

I've always wondered why people assign draft slot numbers to certain positions.
RE: There may not even be a center in this draft people think can play  
The_Boss : 3/11/2019 9:18 am : link
In comment 14323605 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
early. There isn't one every year.

I've always wondered why people assign draft slot numbers to certain positions.


Bradbury might be there. McCoy and Jenkins will be there as will (perhaps) Risner, who offers OL versatility.
RE: No OL worth the pick at #6  
Big Rick in FL : 3/11/2019 9:25 am : link
In comment 14323568 JonC said:
Quote:
They're looking RT via UFA early, as well as safety positions. They'll sign an ER if one like Smith is a good value, don't look for a Brinks level signing.


Any names you can throw out there?
RE: RE: Draft will feature  
JonC : 3/11/2019 9:27 am : link
In comment 14323596 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14323570 JonC said:


Quote:


a lot of investment in the defense and hopefully a WR with #2 potential.



You think a WR2 is more pressing than an upgrade at Center? I’m thinking # 37, in particular, is right in the sweet spot for a plug and play OC in this draft. I would then use the rest to add depth all over the roster. It all can’t be fixed in 2 offseasons. We could get by with the WR’s we have now for one more year.


The draft isn't for pressing needs, that's UFA.

If we're utilizing the draft correctly, you get the cheap prospect at a more important position in terms of roster building (WR > C) ...
WR could wait  
JonC : 3/11/2019 9:28 am : link
but, my point remains.

Rick, nothing new on that front, Smith and/or Golden.
There are so many holes on defense  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/11/2019 10:01 am : link
I'm curious to see what DG's plan is, we'll see how FA and the draft shakes out. This does not look like a playoff caliber defense by any means.
I normally agree with that line of argument Defense, Defense, Defense  
Coach Red Beaulieu : 3/11/2019 12:33 pm : link
But I want the TE from Iowa for SB.
I like your thinking, gidie  
exiled : 3/11/2019 1:06 pm : link
Shore up the o-line and start putting together a defense in the Giants tradition.
you know what -- the defense suddenly seems more doable  
gidiefor : Mod : 3/12/2019 10:07 pm : link
DT - Tomlinson and an UFA

DE - BJ Hill and RJ McIntosh and two UFAs

ILB - Ogletree and Goodson and a few UFAs
OLB - Kareem Martin, L. Carter, A Moss and some UFAs

CB - Jenkins, Haley, Beal and some UFAs
S - Peppers and a few UFAs including Thomas
FE - Bethea and a few UFAs including Chandler and a waiver PU
Back to the Corner