Trent Brown to the Raiders - Highest Paid OL in NFL History

Looks like they a putting together a solid OL.

In comment 14324126 ZogZerg said:

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Looks like they a putting together a solid OL.

Still overdrafted Miller.

had little money left against the cap....looked it up and they had $58 mill.

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In comment 14324137 Go Terps said:

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Exactly, there is a reason each year they get multiple comp picks.

Though he is being signed to that for LT vs RT

Kick the tires??

protect the blindside of the quickest release in football history.

are going to wind up losing the highest paid FA OL and DL and go back to the SB and then get two more 3rd round comp picks.

Someone needs to break up that franchise.

literally can't be paying Dante Scarnecchia enough; year after year not only does he make chicken salad out of chicken shit for players to fortify that line, but he also seems to net them a third round pick in compensation in free agency every year.

In the FA market the Pats are what you want to be: sellers. They get guys hungry to earn a payday, and they let other teams pay players for what they achieved while they were Patriots. In exchange the Pats get comp picks and keep the pipeline going.

Trey Flowers is about to become highly paid by someone other than the Patriots. Will the Pats be in the market for Preston Smith or Za'darius Smith to replace him? Unlikely. They'll leave those mistakes to other teams.

In comment 14324172 Go Terps said:

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In the FA market the Pats are what you want to be: sellers. They get guys hungry to earn a payday, and they let other teams pay players for what they achieved while they were Patriots. In exchange the Pats get comp picks and keep the pipeline going. Trey Flowers is about to become highly paid by someone other than the Patriots. Will the Pats be in the market for Preston Smith or Za'darius Smith to replace him? Unlikely. They'll leave those mistakes to other teams.

Agreed. Excellent analysis. That is a winning formula.

In comment 14324151 pjcas18 said:

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are going to wind up losing the highest paid FA OL and DL and go back to the SB and then get two more 3rd round comp picks. Someone needs to break up that franchise.

Or get rid of comp picks.

He isn't. He's just really smart. He's identified the inefficiencies that are exploitable, and he's exploiting them.

In comment 14324155 Steve in Greenwich said:

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literally can't be paying Dante Scarnecchia enough; year after year not only does he make chicken salad out of chicken shit for players to fortify that line, but he also seems to net them a third round pick in compensation in free agency every year.

And this is your answer. I would NEVER pay for a Pats FA OL as long as this guy is alive and coaching...

In comment 14324147 Josh in the City said:

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protect the blindside of the quickest release in football history.

Not even - easiest way is to play for Belichick. You think a guy like Danny Amendola was banking coin if he played for anyone else?

In comment 14324183 Go Terps said:

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He isn't. He's just really smart. He's identified the inefficiencies that are exploitable, and he's exploiting them.

His approach only works if you draft well. His brilliance is that he's willing to let players go when they are still productive.

In comment 14324183 Go Terps said:

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He isn't. He's just really smart. He's identified the inefficiencies that are exploitable, and he's exploiting them.

Spot on. They aren't necessarily better at drafting either, they just give themselves more darts. They also leverage their draft capital to fill in holes via trades while still maintaining the balance sheet in the comp pick game.

In comment 14324185 jcn56 said:

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In comment 14324147 Josh in the City said: Quote: protect the blindside of the quickest release in football history. Not even - easiest way is to play for Belichick. You think a guy like Danny Amendola was banking coin if he played for anyone else?

Agree with you, but he's actually not the best example, Amendola made more for the Pats than anywhere else (so far) (he signed 5 years 28.5M with 10M guaranteed in NE) - one of the few FA acquisitions they make.

is a wizard, at least no one sane.

He's just really good at what he does and he controls every aspect of that organization from scouting, the draft, coaching, game-planning, play calling, etc. he knows the ins and outs of every role.

Lol

I don't know what the hit rate is for New England and their drafting. I suspect they approach the draft differently than most or perhaps all teams do. I think they view the draft on a much shorter-term basis than is usual. I wonder what their rate is of re-signing their own picks at the end of their rookie deals; I bet it's pretty low.

to take the emotion out of their personnel decisions. There's no hand-wringing about whether to keep a guy, make a deal or let him walk. It it's good for the team, they pull the trigger. This works great when you're getting to the super bowl every year... if you're not, your a heartless jerk.

In comment 14324207 BamaBlue said:

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to take the emotion out of their personnel decisions. There's no hand-wringing about whether to keep a guy, make a deal or let him walk. It it's good for the team, they pull the trigger. This works great when you're getting to the super bowl every year... if you're not, your a heartless jerk.

It's easier to approach the team this way when the QB isn't the guy you have this issue with... and the QB is in place year after year without anyone questioning why you'd keep him because, well... it's Tom Brady.

In comment 14324228 arcarsenal said:

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In comment 14324207 BamaBlue said: Quote: to take the emotion out of their personnel decisions. There's no hand-wringing about whether to keep a guy, make a deal or let him walk. It it's good for the team, they pull the trigger. This works great when you're getting to the super bowl every year... if you're not, your a heartless jerk. It's easier to approach the team this way when the QB isn't the guy you have this issue with... and the QB is in place year after year without anyone questioning why you'd keep him because, well... it's Tom Brady.

True but, if BB were coach here he would have made that dispassionate choice about the QB.

In comment 14324206 Go Terps said:

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I don't know what the hit rate is for New England and their drafting. I suspect they approach the draft differently than most or perhaps all teams do. I think they view the draft on a much shorter-term basis than is usual. I wonder what their rate is of re-signing their own picks at the end of their rookie deals; I bet it's pretty low.

Patriots draft results not much better than any other team, in fact they had a really rough stretch.

Odd behavior by the OP....

In the meantime, the Patriots already have Trent Brown's replacement on the roster. Isaiah Wynn, there 1st rd pick from 2018, will be competing for the LT position.

So it's really not that complicated or brilliant by the Patriots, its just common sense....

sxdxca

In comment 14324232 jvm52106 said:

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In comment 14324228 arcarsenal said: Quote: In comment 14324207 BamaBlue said: Quote: to take the emotion out of their personnel decisions. There's no hand-wringing about whether to keep a guy, make a deal or let him walk. It it's good for the team, they pull the trigger. This works great when you're getting to the super bowl every year... if you're not, your a heartless jerk. It's easier to approach the team this way when the QB isn't the guy you have this issue with... and the QB is in place year after year without anyone questioning why you'd keep him because, well... it's Tom Brady. True but, if BB were coach here he would have made that dispassionate choice about the QB.

Or would the team around Eli never have crumbled so badly that the discussion about pulling the plug on him wouldn't have been the same as it's been these last few years... ?

More than one way to view it.

In comment 14324240 sxdxca said:

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Odd behavior by the OP.... In the meantime, the Patriots already have Trent Brown's replacement on the roster. Isaiah Wynn, there 1st rd pick from 2018, will be competing for the LT position. So it's really not that complicated or brilliant by the Patriots, its just common sense.... sxdxca

LOL.. the signature.

In comment 14324206 Go Terps said:

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I don't know what the hit rate is for New England and their drafting. I suspect they approach the draft differently than most or perhaps all teams do. I think they view the draft on a much shorter-term basis than is usual. I wonder what their rate is of re-signing their own picks at the end of their rookie deals; I bet it's pretty low.

I'm reading Ian O'Connor's book on Belichick. Highly recommend it. You really see how how long Belichick has been studying the game and just this vast wealth of knowledge he has. Growing up around his father Steve, a football coach and scout, created an incredible baseline on how to build a team and culture.

In comment 14324240 sxdxca said:

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Odd behavior by the OP.... In the meantime, the Patriots already have Trent Brown's replacement on the roster. Isaiah Wynn, there 1st rd pick from 2018, will be competing for the LT position. So it's really not that complicated or brilliant by the Patriots, its just common sense.... sxdxca

They are very, very high on Wynn. Apparently he was terrific in camp.

I think you're much better off paying Mack than spending huge money on Trent Brown...

In comment 14324172 Go Terps said:

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In the FA market the Pats are what you want to be: sellers. They get guys hungry to earn a payday, and they let other teams pay players for what they achieved while they were Patriots. In exchange the Pats get comp picks and keep the pipeline going. Trey Flowers is about to become highly paid by someone other than the Patriots. Will the Pats be in the market for Preston Smith or Za'darius Smith to replace him? Unlikely. They'll leave those mistakes to other teams.

I agree with you. But, and it's a big but, you have to have success initially in order to turn those players into comp picks. People have to want your players and pay them big bucks.

We're not in the same position. What players do we have who are going to generate decent deals in FA this offseason? Collins, and........no one else.

So let's get to become a successful team first, and maybe then we can follow the Pats' model.

has to be the best position coach in the NFL. Trent Brown is traded for a late round draft pick and the year later he's the highest paid OL in history. Their OL is filled with overlooked guys like this and it's one of the league's best units. It's coaching like this that gives the Pats confidence to move on from players, in addition to the obvious advantages at QB. They did go through a down spell in drafting. But lately they've been developing the mid tier guys so well, and then letting someone else pay them, figuring they'll just be able to do it again. Brown and Flowers looking to be the most recent examples.

Trent Brown just got about 2M more guaranteed money and is about 5 years younger than Nate Solder.

Shopping hungry last year and overpaying for a LT and not waiting for the draft to play out was such a mistake.

There is no reason the Giants couldn't have made the exact move the Pats did.

The Giants would have owned the rights to Brown and could have offered him this contract today.

When folks say "what other choice did the Giants have at left tackle" -- this one, that's what.

how so many posters here felt Solder was our ONLY option last year at LT. Seems like the Patriots were able to get a quality guy for one year for very little in return.

In comment 14324329 Enzo said:

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how so many posters here felt Solder was our ONLY option last year at LT. Seems like the Patriots were able to get a quality guy for one year for very little in return.

The Patriots, the team in a championship window, presumably with more urgency to win, took the patient path. And yet some how the rebuilding Giants *had* to do something.

Two teams literally faced with the same decision, and the Giants chose the older player at what amounted to the same cost.

In comment 14324183 Go Terps said:

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He isn't. He's just really smart. He's identified the inefficiencies that are exploitable, and he's exploiting them.

I still think you oversimplify it. They have the best QB over the last 15+ years, and BB happens to be the best coach as well, even regardless of how he handles his cap.

That matters. Most teams can't copy this formula because they don't have even 1 of the 2 (Brady/BB) in their respective organizations.

He's very forthcoming and he says a lot of smart things in it. One of the smart things he says is (paraphrasing), "At the NFL level the difference between the talent levels is small enough that the attentive, coachable player will surpass the more talented player."

He gets into that point a little more, but that's the gist of it.

If Belichick is right about that, why would you pay any but the very exceptional players exceptional money?

It's a great listen.
Link - ( New Window )

I think the oversimplification is to say, "It's easy to do if Brady is your QB". I think there's a good chance that, if Belichick had gotten his way, Garoppolo would have been the QB the last two years. And I think they still would have reached the Super Bowl each of those years.

Every player's career can be boiled down to some type of curve depicting performance relative to cost and age. Belichick understands that curve and how to incorporate it into his team better than anyone in the NFL, and he laps the field in this area.

and when healthy, Garoppolo has proven he can play anyway.

It really begs the question, why can't other teams duplicate it? You don't have unique access to any data points, so why aren't NFL franchises able to simply carbon copy the economics of what the Pats are doing?

I think the answer is pretty simple. We will know for sure when BB is gone from coaching that team.

That is borne out every free agent period. Look at us. Reese left Gettleman with some bad contracts on his hands. Gettleman has dumped many of those contracts. So what is he doing now? Replacing them with new bad contracts.

What's going on in New England requires complete buy in from ownership on down. No one has that anywhere in the league. Not to that level.

Basically a two year deal at 18.375M average and then team option at 14M and 15.25M the last two years. Interesting.
Link - ( New Window )

In comment 14324311 Kyle in NY said:

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has to be the best position coach in the NFL. Trent Brown is traded for a late round draft pick and the year later he's the highest paid OL in history. Their OL is filled with overlooked guys like this and it's one of the league's best units. It's coaching like this that gives the Pats confidence to move on from players, in addition to the obvious advantages at QB. They did go through a down spell in drafting. But lately they've been developing the mid tier guys so well, and then letting someone else pay them, figuring they'll just be able to do it again. Brown and Flowers looking to be the most recent examples.

At the SB this year, Brady said Scarnecchia is the greatest position coach he's ever seen and should be a lock for the HoF...

Yall know it also means someone who is clever & skillful at something, right? Seems everyone agrees BB is certainly that

He is by definition a wizard, magic wand not required. Like the 80s movie

It's apt. Apt!

Few other teams have buy in from owner down to the ground floor. You certainly can & should try, but it's very difficult to do. You could say that the relative lack of success of BB's assistants becoming HCs elsewhere and maybe even players is at least a correlation. It's not as simple as knowing how, it's being able to do it especially in football. And with so many positions & roles that need to work in conjunction to succeed, it's a struggle even for the best orgs

Dante Scarnecchia
Kyle in NY : 1:18 pm : link : reply
has to be the best position coach in the NFL.


you think he could have fixed Flowers?

In comment 14324172 Go Terps said:

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In the FA market the Pats are what you want to be: sellers. They get guys hungry to earn a payday, and they let other teams pay players for what they achieved while they were Patriots. In exchange the Pats get comp picks and keep the pipeline going. Trey Flowers is about to become highly paid by someone other than the Patriots. Will the Pats be in the market for Preston Smith or Za'darius Smith to replace him? Unlikely. They'll leave those mistakes to other teams.

This whole pats thing starts and ends with belichick and his amazing and consistent coaching philosophy. You can try to emulate the pats model. Underpay everyone or try to underpay everyone. Offer your star Qb less than market value. Let everyone walk as a FA. See how far it takes you. Teams have tried and they have failed.

It’s belichick.

In comment 14324183 Go Terps said:

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He isn't. He's just really smart. He's identified the inefficiencies that are exploitable, and he's exploiting them.

Smart. Wizard. Whatever. He’s the best team leader in nfl history. No one does a better job of game planning and no one has earned the clout he’s earned. His system not only works, it’s fool proof. He doesn’t have to worry about job security. Doesn’t have to win in 2 years or else. Has a QB in place that isn’t only great, is the best company man QB in nfl history.

You aren’t emulating the pats. Forget it.

In comment 14325524 djm said:

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In comment 14324183 Go Terps said: Quote: He isn't. He's just really smart. He's identified the inefficiencies that are exploitable, and he's exploiting them. Smart. Wizard. Whatever. He’s the best team leader in nfl history. No one does a better job of game planning and no one has earned the clout he’s earned. His system not only works, it’s fool proof. He doesn’t have to worry about job security. Doesn’t have to win in 2 years or else. Has a QB in place that isn’t only great, is the best company man QB in nfl history. You aren’t emulating the pats. Forget it.

Look, it's a thing of beauty how Belichick manages personnel, the cap, and that team culture.

The best thing that could happen to Belichick to really cement his greatness - and I know that sounds weird - is to win a SB without Brady. Because let's face it, Brady's ability to adapt to the never ending changes in offensive personnel and game plans is out of this world. He's a football chameleon. You really can't quantify what an absolute luxury he is to Belichick. And to top it off, he's cap conscious superstar.