Obviously a team in our division which played against Collins twice a season for the past 4 years thought he was worth the dough and they didn't waste any time about it. Maybe we should wait and see before doing all the crowing.
yea no....its ot sour grapes. if you watch the bears game from last year...collins couldnt cover anyone. he has ALWAYS struggled in coverage. go look ANYWHERE about the deal. everyone is saying its an overpay for a one dimensional safety. this isnt giant fans just salty and saying he sucks anyways
but this was his biggest mistake imo. I forgive the mess that was the oline because no one was available, but with LC we had a 3rd round pick. If you turn that down, it's because you are going to sign him long term.
Anyhow, I hate that he is a skin, but i'm glad they backed the truck for him. I think he can still be very good, but he is not worth that contract
Obviously a team in our division which played against Collins twice a season for the past 4 years thought he was worth the dough and they didn't waste any time about it. Maybe we should wait and see before doing all the crowing.
Or at least wait to see what we do with the money we didn't pay Collins. If we use it to replace him and get another decent player than great! But if not then we're just praising the Giants for letting a guy leave...which in of itself doesn't make the team better.
Here you go... Buccaneers Offered Third-Rounder For Landon Collins In 2018 - ( New Window )
Didn't the Bucs deny this? Dunleavy wrote just 5 days ago that the best offer for LC was a 4th rounder link - ( New Window )
My guess is that DG wanted to increase the price for Collins and floated rumors about the trade offer. I think his plan was always to get rid of Collins after the season. He misplayed his hand on trying to get higher offers for Collins.
Good for Landon, but I'm very happy we aren't the team paying him. We can get what he was giving us for less than that - we can probably even do better at a lower cost.
the question as to why they didn't attempt to tag and then trade him?
Quote:
General manager Dave Gettleman could have franchised him for the 2019 season at $11.2 million, and even if the team didn't think Collins was a long-term building block for the defense, the Giants could have used the tag to explore the trade market for their starting safety. Given that he will average more than the tag number on a long-term deal, it's pretty clear he would have had some semblance of a market.
skins overpaid, but that doesn't take away that collins is a great LOS SS. The Giants and Barkley certainly wouldn't welcome that, nor the rest of the league. but we know the way to beat collins is through the air.
i'm glad for collins that he gets his payday and with his favorite team. i always liked him. i cheered like crazy when reese traded up to get him.
the question as to why they didn't attempt to tag and then trade him?
Quote:
General manager Dave Gettleman could have franchised him for the 2019 season at $11.2 million, and even if the team didn't think Collins was a long-term building block for the defense, the Giants could have used the tag to explore the trade market for their starting safety. Given that he will average more than the tag number on a long-term deal, it's pretty clear he would have had some semblance of a market.
Link - ( New Window )
What if they just get a 3rd rounder back as compensation now and the only offer we had on the table in-season was a 4?
the market is the market. Obviously, the market values safeties more than BBi does.
Major screw up by Gettlemen. With the way FA is going, if he could have signed LC for $10 mill a year, it would have been a good contract, and if he wasn't going to do that, then Eric is right, you assure yourself of a 3rd round pick. We may get nothing out of this, and I don't know how you go about building a team when you are always taking one step forward and a step back.
the market is the market. Obviously, the market values safeties more than BBi does.
Major screw up by Gettlemen. With the way FA is going, if he could have signed LC for $10 mill a year, it would have been a good contract, and if he wasn't going to do that, then Eric is right, you assure yourself of a 3rd round pick. We may get nothing out of this, and I don't know how you go about building a team when you are always taking one step forward and a step back.
Market price doesn't mean it's wise to spend it.
And it does matter, there's a salary cap in this league and fans are going to be keyed on how their team is spending those cap dollars.
It matters for obvious reasons - it's finite space.
Again - the 3rd round pick wasn't even offered. It sounds like the best we got was a 4.
We do get something out of this. Cap space to pursue someone better or someone cheaper, and we may get a comp pick that is better than what could have been recouped in the trade market.
If we do, then all of a sudden what we did makes perfect sense and everyone who has been fucking losing their mind over Gettleman not trading him can... stop. Or relax.
and it was a 4th at best seems like nothing more than Giants damage control.
There were reports of a 3rd at the time of the deadline, no reports of a 4th. Before the final decision reports of 3rds still. It was only after we announced he wouldnt be back and the front office got planned that their were sources reporting that it wasnt a 3rd.
Given the sequence of facts and their release it certainly lends more to trying to make it look like less of a screw up than what actually occurred.
Perhaps, but why think that? Landon has always had an inflated view of himself. Everyone knows that. Again, there were a number of BBI'ers who saw this coming last October. It was no surprise.
$15 mm for a box safety redefines the market. Wow. I am not surprised he went to Washington but I am surprised they paid him that much.
Everyone on this board wants to have their cake and eat it. You can't fellate "the Patriots way" and then complain when we let a pro bowler go. We should get a pick back for LC.
I'm not one of those guys thinking the Skins can't cover now. LC is not as bad as folk may out and he had a lot of covering to do for Webb and Riley but he is average vs the pass and that isn't likely to change. We have bigger needs. It's that simple.
Hmmmm... so the problem is we don't know what the Giants were really offered for Collins.
If they were only offered a 4th round pick, this MIGHT end up being better for them IF they are eligible for comp picks (i.e., they lose more qualified free agents than they sign).
I wonder if we'll ever know what the Giants were offered for Collins.
Maybe they didn't trade him because they really liked him and
Everyone on this board wants to have their cake and eat it. You can't fellate "the Patriots way" and then complain when we let a pro bowler go. We should get a pick back for LC.
I'm not one of those guys thinking the Skins can't cover now. LC is not as bad as folk may out and he had a lot of covering to do for Webb and Riley but he is average vs the pass and that isn't likely to change. We have bigger needs. It's that simple.
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe - so long as it makes the team better.
Both of your points really summed up the situation well.
the market is the market. Obviously, the market values safeties more than BBi does.
Major screw up by Gettlemen. With the way FA is going, if he could have signed LC for $10 mill a year, it would have been a good contract, and if he wasn't going to do that, then Eric is right, you assure yourself of a 3rd round pick. We may get nothing out of this, and I don't know how you go about building a team when you are always taking one step forward and a step back.
By not overpaying for a S when you have bigger needs on the OL and the DL/LB positions.
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
Everyone wants to be more like the Patriots - but then we do something the Patriots would do, and people still say Gettleman is making a huge mistake.
The Skins destroy their cap on a player with two straight years of declining play and injuries, but they fuck up the market price for FA safeties for everyone else.
The Skins destroy their cap on a player with two straight years of declining play and injuries, but they fuck up the market price for FA safeties for everyone else.
Thanks dicks!
Exactly, I had this conversation with someone today. At first i was thrilled to see the Redskins overpay as usual. But then I thought shit, good luck signing a safety to a realistic deal from now on.
Bill Simmons
@BillSimmons
The Redskins are my favorite free agency team - its like watching a little kid plow thru an Amazon gift card. I NEED STUFF! I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MONEY WORKS! I SHOULD GET A SAFETY!
Bill Simmons
@BillSimmons
The Redskins are my favorite free agency team - its like watching a little kid plow thru an Amazon gift card. I NEED STUFF! I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MONEY WORKS! I SHOULD GET A SAFETY!
Lol, not typically a fan of Bill Simmons but that is hilarious and spot on at the same time.
I guess what bothers me about turning down a 3rd rounder
Is that it signals to me at least that Gettleman valued Collins highly, not wanting to let him go "cheap". So, why the about face, and no attempt to keep him? Is Collins damaged goods?
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
now we know why he is gone. I still wonder if we didnt trade him because we intended on resigning him and then his demands were way too high.
I believe it's either that or the Bucs (was that potential trade actually ever confirmed or just a rumour?) backed off when they learned of what numbers he was going to ask for. Definitely not worth paying him that much, and I think he's a good player that isn't as bad as people here make him out to be.
Hmmmm... so the problem is we don't know what the Giants were really offered for Collins.
If they were only offered a 4th round pick, this MIGHT end up being better for them IF they are eligible for comp picks (i.e., they lose more qualified free agents than they sign).
I wonder if we'll ever know what the Giants were offered for Collins.
wait. If the giants werent offered much, they will feed it to one of their friends in the press. If they screwed up and had a decent offer, no one will mention it.
And to get a comp pick at the end of a round means staying out of FA. Trading a guy gets you a pick in that round and does not require you to stay out of FA. A comp pick is more costly than a trade because you lose the player and must forego FA.
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
Everyone wants to be more like the Patriots - but then we do something the Patriots would do, and people still say Gettleman is making a huge mistake.
It's entertaining, if nothing else.
when a Gettleman hoists 6 SB trophies, he can cut Jesus Christ from the team and no one will say a word. Until then, lets go easy on the he does the same thing as the Pats. talk.
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
Everyone wants to be more like the Patriots - but then we do something the Patriots would do, and people still say Gettleman is making a huge mistake.
It's entertaining, if nothing else.
when a Gettleman hoists 6 SB trophies, he can cut Jesus Christ from the team and no one will say a word. Until then, lets go easy on the he does the same thing as the Pats. talk.
You dont make any sense. You blasted the Giants for their 200 million spending spree in 16, now youre blasting them because they didnt want to make a one dimensional, oft-injured safety one of the highest paid safeties in the league.
Do you bitch just to bitch?
The Giants need to focus on completing the OL and improving the front 7 on defense. How about let this play out instead of lamenting a lost player whos contract was terrible the moment the ink dried.
Comical people here. The Redskins haven't played in the
Super Bowl in 28 years. If Collins is one of the players responsible for their return, all of the Redskin fans will take to the streets complaining that he was overpaid? I don't think so.
In this game it is still considered necessary to get to and win the Super Bowl to be named league champ. Winning the PFF award for best salary cap management just doesn't have the same prestige.
So DG has systematically eliminated JPP, Harrison, Vernon and Collins. (To be kind, we'll leave out youngsters Apple and Okwara for now.) How many of these players has he replaced with players of equal or better value. I count none.
There are many here who think that the Giants will be able to replace all four during this offseason, while at the same time landing their franchise QB by trading for Josh Rosen or using their first and second round picks this year.
As bad as it sounds to give up a one and a two when you have so many defensive needs, to wait another year, wasting another of OBJ's prime, a mid-round draft choice will not get you the QB you want the most; the league consensus as the best.
You will have officially entered quarterback hell. Having twice missed your opportunity to grab your starter for the next decade, now there is no easy way to fix matters.
Buccaneers Offered Third-Rounder For Landon Collins In 2018 - ( New Window )
yea no....its ot sour grapes. if you watch the bears game from last year...collins couldnt cover anyone. he has ALWAYS struggled in coverage. go look ANYWHERE about the deal. everyone is saying its an overpay for a one dimensional safety. this isnt giant fans just salty and saying he sucks anyways
Anyhow, I hate that he is a skin, but i'm glad they backed the truck for him. I think he can still be very good, but he is not worth that contract
Didn't the Bucs deny this? Dunleavy wrote just 5 days ago that the best offer for LC was a 4th rounder
link - ( New Window )
I'll be cheering for you to lay the wood on Dallas and Philly.
Or at least wait to see what we do with the money we didn't pay Collins. If we use it to replace him and get another decent player than great! But if not then we're just praising the Giants for letting a guy leave...which in of itself doesn't make the team better.
Quote:
Here you go... Buccaneers Offered Third-Rounder For Landon Collins In 2018 - ( New Window )
Didn't the Bucs deny this? Dunleavy wrote just 5 days ago that the best offer for LC was a 4th rounder link - ( New Window )
My guess is that DG wanted to increase the price for Collins and floated rumors about the trade offer. I think his plan was always to get rid of Collins after the season. He misplayed his hand on trying to get higher offers for Collins.
Tashaun Gipson fits.
We were smart to not overpay here.
Link - ( New Window )
i'm glad for collins that he gets his payday and with his favorite team. i always liked him. i cheered like crazy when reese traded up to get him.
Quote:
General manager Dave Gettleman could have franchised him for the 2019 season at $11.2 million, and even if the team didn't think Collins was a long-term building block for the defense, the Giants could have used the tag to explore the trade market for their starting safety. Given that he will average more than the tag number on a long-term deal, it's pretty clear he would have had some semblance of a market.
Link - ( New Window )
What if they just get a 3rd rounder back as compensation now and the only offer we had on the table in-season was a 4?
This rumor was debunked by Art Stapleton
Major screw up by Gettlemen. With the way FA is going, if he could have signed LC for $10 mill a year, it would have been a good contract, and if he wasn't going to do that, then Eric is right, you assure yourself of a 3rd round pick. We may get nothing out of this, and I don't know how you go about building a team when you are always taking one step forward and a step back.
Major screw up by Gettlemen. With the way FA is going, if he could have signed LC for $10 mill a year, it would have been a good contract, and if he wasn't going to do that, then Eric is right, you assure yourself of a 3rd round pick. We may get nothing out of this, and I don't know how you go about building a team when you are always taking one step forward and a step back.
Market price doesn't mean it's wise to spend it.
And it does matter, there's a salary cap in this league and fans are going to be keyed on how their team is spending those cap dollars.
It matters for obvious reasons - it's finite space.
Again - the 3rd round pick wasn't even offered. It sounds like the best we got was a 4.
We do get something out of this. Cap space to pursue someone better or someone cheaper, and we may get a comp pick that is better than what could have been recouped in the trade market.
If we do, then all of a sudden what we did makes perfect sense and everyone who has been fucking losing their mind over Gettleman not trading him can... stop. Or relax.
It is like people just look for ways to throw crap at DG.
Meanwhile, we just walked from a guy who weakened a division rivals cap.
There were reports of a 3rd at the time of the deadline, no reports of a 4th. Before the final decision reports of 3rds still. It was only after we announced he wouldnt be back and the front office got planned that their were sources reporting that it wasnt a 3rd.
Given the sequence of facts and their release it certainly lends more to trying to make it look like less of a screw up than what actually occurred.
It is like people just look for ways to throw crap at DG.
Meanwhile, we just walked from a guy who weakened a division rivals cap.
You can argue we actually weakened the Redskins defense in general. Teams are going to have a field day throwing across the middle on them now.
Quote:
the people calling it a major screwup by Gettleman based on a rumor that was debunked.
It is like people just look for ways to throw crap at DG.
Meanwhile, we just walked from a guy who weakened a division rivals cap.
You can argue we actually weakened the Redskins defense in general. Teams are going to have a field day throwing across the middle on them now.
I'm not one of those guys thinking the Skins can't cover now. LC is not as bad as folk may out and he had a lot of covering to do for Webb and Riley but he is average vs the pass and that isn't likely to change. We have bigger needs. It's that simple.
It is like people just look for ways to throw crap at DG.
Meanwhile, we just walked from a guy who weakened a division rivals cap.
DG doing a fine job!
If they were only offered a 4th round pick, this MIGHT end up being better for them IF they are eligible for comp picks (i.e., they lose more qualified free agents than they sign).
I wonder if we'll ever know what the Giants were offered for Collins.
I'm not one of those guys thinking the Skins can't cover now. LC is not as bad as folk may out and he had a lot of covering to do for Webb and Riley but he is average vs the pass and that isn't likely to change. We have bigger needs. It's that simple.
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe - so long as it makes the team better.
Both of your points really summed up the situation well.
Major screw up by Gettlemen. With the way FA is going, if he could have signed LC for $10 mill a year, it would have been a good contract, and if he wasn't going to do that, then Eric is right, you assure yourself of a 3rd round pick. We may get nothing out of this, and I don't know how you go about building a team when you are always taking one step forward and a step back.
By not overpaying for a S when you have bigger needs on the OL and the DL/LB positions.
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
Quote:
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
Everyone wants to be more like the Patriots - but then we do something the Patriots would do, and people still say Gettleman is making a huge mistake.
It's entertaining, if nothing else.
Thanks dicks!
And I like LC as a player, but this contract is bonkers.
Thanks dicks!
Exactly, I had this conversation with someone today. At first i was thrilled to see the Redskins overpay as usual. But then I thought shit, good luck signing a safety to a realistic deal from now on.
@BillSimmons
The Redskins are my favorite free agency team - its like watching a little kid plow thru an Amazon gift card. I NEED STUFF! I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MONEY WORKS! I SHOULD GET A SAFETY!
@BillSimmons
The Redskins are my favorite free agency team - its like watching a little kid plow thru an Amazon gift card. I NEED STUFF! I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MONEY WORKS! I SHOULD GET A SAFETY!
Lol, not typically a fan of Bill Simmons but that is hilarious and spot on at the same time.
Quote:
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
so you're saying Odell is as good as gone?
I believe it's either that or the Bucs (was that potential trade actually ever confirmed or just a rumour?) backed off when they learned of what numbers he was going to ask for. Definitely not worth paying him that much, and I think he's a good player that isn't as bad as people here make him out to be.
If they were only offered a 4th round pick, this MIGHT end up being better for them IF they are eligible for comp picks (i.e., they lose more qualified free agents than they sign).
I wonder if we'll ever know what the Giants were offered for Collins.
And to get a comp pick at the end of a round means staying out of FA. Trading a guy gets you a pick in that round and does not require you to stay out of FA. A comp pick is more costly than a trade because you lose the player and must forego FA.
Quote:
surprised this doesn't get more play here:
Quote:
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
Everyone wants to be more like the Patriots - but then we do something the Patriots would do, and people still say Gettleman is making a huge mistake.
It's entertaining, if nothing else.
Quote:
In comment 14325284 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
surprised this doesn't get more play here:
Quote:
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
Everyone wants to be more like the Patriots - but then we do something the Patriots would do, and people still say Gettleman is making a huge mistake.
It's entertaining, if nothing else.
when a Gettleman hoists 6 SB trophies, he can cut Jesus Christ from the team and no one will say a word. Until then, lets go easy on the he does the same thing as the Pats. talk.
You dont make any sense. You blasted the Giants for their 200 million spending spree in 16, now youre blasting them because they didnt want to make a one dimensional, oft-injured safety one of the highest paid safeties in the league.
Do you bitch just to bitch?
The Giants need to focus on completing the OL and improving the front 7 on defense. How about let this play out instead of lamenting a lost player whos contract was terrible the moment the ink dried.
In this game it is still considered necessary to get to and win the Super Bowl to be named league champ. Winning the PFF award for best salary cap management just doesn't have the same prestige.
So DG has systematically eliminated JPP, Harrison, Vernon and Collins. (To be kind, we'll leave out youngsters Apple and Okwara for now.) How many of these players has he replaced with players of equal or better value. I count none.
There are many here who think that the Giants will be able to replace all four during this offseason, while at the same time landing their franchise QB by trading for Josh Rosen or using their first and second round picks this year.
As bad as it sounds to give up a one and a two when you have so many defensive needs, to wait another year, wasting another of OBJ's prime, a mid-round draft choice will not get you the QB you want the most; the league consensus as the best.
You will have officially entered quarterback hell. Having twice missed your opportunity to grab your starter for the next decade, now there is no easy way to fix matters.
Link - ( New Window )