Better be able to take advantage of scheming pass game on Collins.
Barkley, Beckham, Engram
Wow. What a horrible contract. Good for Landon to get paid but so glad its not us. He is going to drive Skins fans nuts when he gets isolated into coverage.
No one thought he wouldn't get paid, but I am pretty sure no one thought he was going to get $14M per year. Especially in a market where there is a shit ton of safeties available.
Better be able to take advantage of scheming pass game on Collins.
Barkley, Beckham, Engram
Wow. What a horrible contract. Good for Landon to get paid but so glad its not us. He is going to drive Skins fans nuts when he gets isolated into coverage.
I can see it now on game threads if we cant get take advantage of collins coverage. it would be epic bbi meltdown and rightfully so. he sucks in coverage, i look forward to it
that Gettelman is making same mistakes as Reese. But I think this is a clear case of where they diverge. I have a hard time believing Reese lets Collins get away. But I think history will be kind to Gettelman here, and I like Collins a lot. This is insane money for an in the box safetu
and will have to restructure and release and they have Case Keenum coming in. They will bonus out a lot of the guarantee upfront. Good deal for Landon.
No one thought he wouldn't get paid, but I am pretty sure no one thought he was going to get $14M per year. Especially in a market where there is a shit ton of safeties available.
Fans tend to come up with reasons to value players lower than the rest of the league actually values a player. Yes there are a shit ton of safeties available, and many of them aren't as good at what they do as he does.
Devin McCourty is making 13.6. Tony Jefferson is making 12.6. Accounting for how salaries go up every year, 14m isn't mindbending.
Look at what the Giants paid Solder. He wasn't close to a top 5 player at his position.
Loved him off the field but on the field he had some weaknesses. Wish he didn't end up on the Skins, but it is what it is. On the field this somewhat reminds me of when they added Norman - who was a similarly very good player in the right system, but also has some very basic weaknesses that kept him from being as good as the top tier guys at his position.
Texans offered him 9.5 for a long term deal. Told him he was going to wait. Well he just made at least 3 million more per year for waiting. Thank you Dan Synder.
In the past and no need to add another one. They were forced to do it at left tackle which is a premium positions as much as it sucked. SS not so much. I hate to let talent get away. But until Eli is gone next year they need to be cap wary.
That was 7 years $35 million and was considered the highest for a safety at the time. Archuleta was so good he was benched after 7 games and traded to the Bears the following season. I love the Skins
in hindsight, what happened. This is how it really works. agents....far in advance.....know what their clients are worth on the open market...thats how negotiations begin
the agent had this deal lined up with the skins....collins took it to gettleman....gettleman laughed at him.....collins angrily clears out locker and tweets goodbye to giants fans
Happy they didn't sign him for that but definitely missed an opportunity to trade him. 3d or 4th, whatever best offer was should have been accepted if you weren't prepared to negotiate with him. What he ultimately got was a little surprising but not what he would demand. Of course he would seek top of market.
but honestly, I see this working out very similar to Carl Banks, Leonard Marshall, Jesse Armstead, and Cornelius Griffin leaving the Giants for the Redskins and not doing much when they got on their defense. Huge overpay for a name.
but honestly, I see this working out very similar to Carl Banks, Leonard Marshall, Jesse Armstead, and Cornelius Griffin leaving the Giants for the Redskins and not doing much when they got on their defense. Huge overpay for a name.
Have to agree. BBI would be freaking out if we signed Collins (whether resigned him or signed him from another team) based on the production and that salary.. Crazy money for a somewhat limited S.
RE: $45 million guaranteed is bad football business
I thought he might APPROACH the franchise tag amount but this??? If DG ever signed him to this contract I think we would all go to Metlife and picket his office.
in hindsight, what happened. This is how it really works. agents....far in advance.....know what their clients are worth on the open market...thats how negotiations begin
the agent had this deal lined up with the skins....collins took it to gettleman....gettleman laughed at him.....collins angrily clears out locker and tweets goodbye to giants fans
hindsight always 20/20
Jerry Reach
Looking forward to watching him in the chase position in pass coverage
That was 7 years $35 million and was considered the highest for a safety at the time. Archuleta was so good he was benched after 7 games and traded to the Bears the following season. I love the Skins
is great for Collins, but I agree those numbers are ridiculous. We should have traded him at the deadline, but I'm glad we didn't compound that mistake by signing him to that kind o contract.
are numbers I would NEVER give to collins. Most overrated Giant in a long time...
No, he was not, and hardly ever, the most overrated Giant in a long time, just wrong.
He had a legit All Pro season in 2016, and he was appropriately rated. His play fell off, and he incurred injuries the next two years. His significant limitations in coverage became more apparent, especially with the Giants lacking a legit FS to play alongside LC. By and large the assessment of LC leveled off here. There were a vocal few who didn't see that. But the hyperbole in this post is over the top. I don't disagree that the Skins overpaid, by a lot.
where people can't agree on the color of the sky, everyone recognizes that Landon was simply too much of a negative in pass defense to re-sign to an exorbitant contract. Congrats to him, but I'm not particularly discouraged about him moving on.
to see if Josina continues her shit-stirring coverage in Washington.
For real. There's no doubt in my mind Collins was her "go to" guy in the locker room up here.
Which could be part of the reason why DG wanted to let him go.
Absolutely. He was admonished my Ben and Shurmur twice with his public "leadership". As fans, it might have served as our pound of flesh that we demanded for watching terrible football for years. But the vocal nature of Collins was not appreciated in house. DG has been charged with changing the culture.
I liked Collins and don't like to root against him .
So we have another big hole in the defense to fill .
Do we ever get any decent comp picks ?
Oh well Good Luck Landon !
that were saying him and his position have no value and he would sign for something like 1/7.
This is what players thet have all-pro seasons where they finish second in DPOY go for on the open market when they are 25. I dont think this is the Skins blowing away the other offers either, think other teams were willing to give him close to that.
Its a risk and I wouldnt pay it but he certainly had value that some were in denial about.
RE: This is the least shocking signing this offseason.
No wonder why Giants and Redskins keep battling each other for last place in the NFC East.
Collins is a good player, but that is a ridiculous contract for someone who has not lived up to his 2016 season and who finished the last two years on IR.
Giants may get a comp pick out of this if they don't sign more free agents than they lose. But again - and yes, to beat a dead horse - the Giants knew this was coming and they should have traded him in October to the Bucs for a high 3rd rounder.
No wonder why Giants and Redskins keep battling each other for last place in the NFC East.
Collins is a good player, but that is a ridiculous contract for someone who has not lived up to his 2016 season and who finished the last two years on IR.
Giants may get a comp pick out of this if they don't sign more free agents than they lose. But again - and yes, to beat a dead horse - the Giants knew this was coming and they should have traded him in October to the Bucs for a high 3rd rounder.
maybe they thought they could resign him and didnt deal him to then later realize his asking was just to high.
Perhaps, but why think that? Landon has always had an inflated view of himself. Everyone knows that. Again, there were a number of BBI'ers who saw this coming last October. It was no surprise.
Perhaps, but why think that? Landon has always had an inflated view of himself. Everyone knows that. Again, there were a number of BBI'ers who saw this coming last October. It was no surprise.
based on this contract, it wasn't inflated
Letting Collins walk without trading him for a pick
could be one of Gettleman's bigger blunders in the end if the Giants don't get a comp pick out of it next year. If they do get a comp pick, it probably means they aren't signing enough good players and they always get screwed with comp picks anyway. Seems like a lose/lose situation if that's their reason for not trading him.
Perhaps, but why think that? Landon has always had an inflated view of himself. Everyone knows that. Again, there were a number of BBI'ers who saw this coming last October. It was no surprise.
because maybe they felt they could get it done for less. maybe they would have paid him this much but something happened internally that made DG and co change their mind. maybe early in the year everything was fine but later on, collins did something that pissed them off. we dont know the internal stuff. it isnt always as simple as well we didnt sign him, we should have traded him. its common sense to do that if you KNOW you arewnt resigning him.
im gonna go with DG intended to sign him long term but something happened, whether it be an issue or just his asking became to much. something clearly changed for the giants and collins
There is a difference between what some teams will spend and how a player plays on the field. Collins thinks he has played like an All-Pro safety the last three years. He hasn't.
There is a difference between what some teams will spend and how a player plays on the field. Collins thinks he has played like an All-Pro safety the last three years. He hasn't.
How could he not? You should hear what the idiots on ESPN are saying about him. "Can't put a price on leadership..."
Actually, you can if "leadership" can't cover a TE or RB out of the backfield.
to see if Josina continues her shit-stirring coverage in Washington.
For real. There's no doubt in my mind Collins was her "go to" guy in the locker room up here.
Which could be part of the reason why DG wanted to let him go.
Absolutely. He was admonished my Ben and Shurmur twice with his public "leadership". As fans, it might have served as our pound of flesh that we demanded for watching terrible football for years. But the vocal nature of Collins was not appreciated in house. DG has been charged with changing the culture.
I can only imagine what will happen with both Collins and Norman feeding the Washington Post.
No wonder why Giants and Redskins keep battling each other for last place in the NFC East.
Collins is a good player, but that is a ridiculous contract for someone who has not lived up to his 2016 season and who finished the last two years on IR.
Giants may get a comp pick out of this if they don't sign more free agents than they lose. But again - and yes, to beat a dead horse - the Giants knew this was coming and they should have traded him in October to the Bucs for a high 3rd rounder.
maybe they thought they could resign him and didnt deal him to then later realize his asking was just to high.
Getting the 3rd from KC seems the obvious choice 6 months later, but can you imagine the hue and cry if he was traded at the time for a 3rd? Some were ok with it, most were not.
I liked LC very much, but not at $14 mill per. Guys best position may very well be as OLB...
Can you see LC trying to cover Saquon on a wheel route next fall?
There is a difference between what some teams will spend and how a player plays on the field. Collins thinks he has played like an All-Pro safety the last three years. He hasn't.
How could he not? You should hear what the idiots on ESPN are saying about him. "Can't put a price on leadership..."
Actually, you can if "leadership" can't cover a TE or RB out of the backfield.
Leadership that throws other players under the bus to the press ass well
Getting the 3rd from KC seems the obvious choice 6 months later, but can you imagine the hue and cry if he was traded at the time for a 3rd? Some were ok with it, most were not.
I liked LC very much, but not at $14 mill per. Guys best position may very well be as OLB...
Can you see LC trying to cover Saquon on a wheel route next fall?
I keep seeing KC, but there were articles on the Bucs offering a 3rd. If Gettleman wasn't going to pay Collins, he obviously should have taken the 3rd rounder. Who cares what the fans say? His job is to do what is best for the team.
At the time, I was pretty vocal about dumping as many players at the time for picks as possible.
No wonder why Giants and Redskins keep battling each other for last place in the NFC East.
Collins is a good player, but that is a ridiculous contract for someone who has not lived up to his 2016 season and who finished the last two years on IR.
Giants may get a comp pick out of this if they don't sign more free agents than they lose. But again - and yes, to beat a dead horse - the Giants knew this was coming and they should have traded him in October to the Bucs for a high 3rd rounder.
Maybe the should have traded him in October, but I think this is being over blown. If they thought there was a chance the could keep him I can see why they let it play out. Also, they need to keep the stands from being empty and Collins is a popular player.
Let's put it this way, if Gettleman and Shurmur fail it won't be because of how they handled Landon Collins.
I'm always happy to see NFL players who go about their business
crazy to think the giants didn't want to resign him, tag/resign when they declined those 3rd/4th picks whatever they may have been before watching him get injured again...
can't blame the giants for the cards not falling the way they would have liked them.
this is basically the contract we gave Vernon in 2016 lol. way too much for a safety unless they want to move him to some hybrid linebacker...
Getting the 3rd from KC seems the obvious choice 6 months later, but can you imagine the hue and cry if he was traded at the time for a 3rd? Some were ok with it, most were not.
I liked LC very much, but not at $14 mill per. Guys best position may very well be as OLB...
Can you see LC trying to cover Saquon on a wheel route next fall?
I keep seeing KC, but there were articles on the Bucs offering a 3rd. If Gettleman wasn't going to pay Collins, he obviously should have taken the 3rd rounder. Who cares what the fans say? His job is to do what is best for the team.
At the time, I was pretty vocal about dumping as many players at the time for picks as possible.
I don't remember the Bucs, but that does not mean much. KC is who was reported, maybe the Bucs did too - and of course that would have been a much better trade.
Sure he's a decent safety, but the Skins fanbase wanted LC from the time he was drafted and they look at him as Sean Taylor light. They have a weird fixation on LC. And he also fits their Alabama defensive plan they seem to be following.
First and foremost he is already a fan favorite and they are desperate to put butts in the seats. This will do that and sell Jersey's. Mark my words, he will be on of the top 3 highest selling Redskins jerseys this season.
I see the money's high, but this makes me even more pissed they didn't trade him as there was obviously a market. In any case sad to see him go and to the putrid Redskins.
Obviously a team in our division which played against Collins twice a season for the past 4 years thought he was worth the dough and they didn't waste any time about it. Maybe we should wait and see before doing all the crowing.
Obviously a team in our division which played against Collins twice a season for the past 4 years thought he was worth the dough and they didn't waste any time about it. Maybe we should wait and see before doing all the crowing.
yea no....its ot sour grapes. if you watch the bears game from last year...collins couldnt cover anyone. he has ALWAYS struggled in coverage. go look ANYWHERE about the deal. everyone is saying its an overpay for a one dimensional safety. this isnt giant fans just salty and saying he sucks anyways
but this was his biggest mistake imo. I forgive the mess that was the oline because no one was available, but with LC we had a 3rd round pick. If you turn that down, it's because you are going to sign him long term.
Anyhow, I hate that he is a skin, but i'm glad they backed the truck for him. I think he can still be very good, but he is not worth that contract
Obviously a team in our division which played against Collins twice a season for the past 4 years thought he was worth the dough and they didn't waste any time about it. Maybe we should wait and see before doing all the crowing.
Or at least wait to see what we do with the money we didn't pay Collins. If we use it to replace him and get another decent player than great! But if not then we're just praising the Giants for letting a guy leave...which in of itself doesn't make the team better.
Here you go... Buccaneers Offered Third-Rounder For Landon Collins In 2018 - ( New Window )
Didn't the Bucs deny this? Dunleavy wrote just 5 days ago that the best offer for LC was a 4th rounder link - ( New Window )
My guess is that DG wanted to increase the price for Collins and floated rumors about the trade offer. I think his plan was always to get rid of Collins after the season. He misplayed his hand on trying to get higher offers for Collins.
Good for Landon, but I'm very happy we aren't the team paying him. We can get what he was giving us for less than that - we can probably even do better at a lower cost.
the question as to why they didn't attempt to tag and then trade him?
Quote:
General manager Dave Gettleman could have franchised him for the 2019 season at $11.2 million, and even if the team didn't think Collins was a long-term building block for the defense, the Giants could have used the tag to explore the trade market for their starting safety. Given that he will average more than the tag number on a long-term deal, it's pretty clear he would have had some semblance of a market.
skins overpaid, but that doesn't take away that collins is a great LOS SS. The Giants and Barkley certainly wouldn't welcome that, nor the rest of the league. but we know the way to beat collins is through the air.
i'm glad for collins that he gets his payday and with his favorite team. i always liked him. i cheered like crazy when reese traded up to get him.
the question as to why they didn't attempt to tag and then trade him?
Quote:
General manager Dave Gettleman could have franchised him for the 2019 season at $11.2 million, and even if the team didn't think Collins was a long-term building block for the defense, the Giants could have used the tag to explore the trade market for their starting safety. Given that he will average more than the tag number on a long-term deal, it's pretty clear he would have had some semblance of a market.
Link - ( New Window )
What if they just get a 3rd rounder back as compensation now and the only offer we had on the table in-season was a 4?
the market is the market. Obviously, the market values safeties more than BBi does.
Major screw up by Gettlemen. With the way FA is going, if he could have signed LC for $10 mill a year, it would have been a good contract, and if he wasn't going to do that, then Eric is right, you assure yourself of a 3rd round pick. We may get nothing out of this, and I don't know how you go about building a team when you are always taking one step forward and a step back.
the market is the market. Obviously, the market values safeties more than BBi does.
Major screw up by Gettlemen. With the way FA is going, if he could have signed LC for $10 mill a year, it would have been a good contract, and if he wasn't going to do that, then Eric is right, you assure yourself of a 3rd round pick. We may get nothing out of this, and I don't know how you go about building a team when you are always taking one step forward and a step back.
Market price doesn't mean it's wise to spend it.
And it does matter, there's a salary cap in this league and fans are going to be keyed on how their team is spending those cap dollars.
It matters for obvious reasons - it's finite space.
Again - the 3rd round pick wasn't even offered. It sounds like the best we got was a 4.
We do get something out of this. Cap space to pursue someone better or someone cheaper, and we may get a comp pick that is better than what could have been recouped in the trade market.
If we do, then all of a sudden what we did makes perfect sense and everyone who has been fucking losing their mind over Gettleman not trading him can... stop. Or relax.
and it was a 4th at best seems like nothing more than Giants damage control.
There were reports of a 3rd at the time of the deadline, no reports of a 4th. Before the final decision reports of 3rds still. It was only after we announced he wouldnt be back and the front office got planned that their were sources reporting that it wasnt a 3rd.
Given the sequence of facts and their release it certainly lends more to trying to make it look like less of a screw up than what actually occurred.
Perhaps, but why think that? Landon has always had an inflated view of himself. Everyone knows that. Again, there were a number of BBI'ers who saw this coming last October. It was no surprise.
$15 mm for a box safety redefines the market. Wow. I am not surprised he went to Washington but I am surprised they paid him that much.
Everyone on this board wants to have their cake and eat it. You can't fellate "the Patriots way" and then complain when we let a pro bowler go. We should get a pick back for LC.
I'm not one of those guys thinking the Skins can't cover now. LC is not as bad as folk may out and he had a lot of covering to do for Webb and Riley but he is average vs the pass and that isn't likely to change. We have bigger needs. It's that simple.
Hmmmm... so the problem is we don't know what the Giants were really offered for Collins.
If they were only offered a 4th round pick, this MIGHT end up being better for them IF they are eligible for comp picks (i.e., they lose more qualified free agents than they sign).
I wonder if we'll ever know what the Giants were offered for Collins.
Maybe they didn't trade him because they really liked him and
Everyone on this board wants to have their cake and eat it. You can't fellate "the Patriots way" and then complain when we let a pro bowler go. We should get a pick back for LC.
I'm not one of those guys thinking the Skins can't cover now. LC is not as bad as folk may out and he had a lot of covering to do for Webb and Riley but he is average vs the pass and that isn't likely to change. We have bigger needs. It's that simple.
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe - so long as it makes the team better.
Both of your points really summed up the situation well.
the market is the market. Obviously, the market values safeties more than BBi does.
Major screw up by Gettlemen. With the way FA is going, if he could have signed LC for $10 mill a year, it would have been a good contract, and if he wasn't going to do that, then Eric is right, you assure yourself of a 3rd round pick. We may get nothing out of this, and I don't know how you go about building a team when you are always taking one step forward and a step back.
By not overpaying for a S when you have bigger needs on the OL and the DL/LB positions.
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
Everyone wants to be more like the Patriots - but then we do something the Patriots would do, and people still say Gettleman is making a huge mistake.
The Skins destroy their cap on a player with two straight years of declining play and injuries, but they fuck up the market price for FA safeties for everyone else.
The Skins destroy their cap on a player with two straight years of declining play and injuries, but they fuck up the market price for FA safeties for everyone else.
Thanks dicks!
Exactly, I had this conversation with someone today. At first i was thrilled to see the Redskins overpay as usual. But then I thought shit, good luck signing a safety to a realistic deal from now on.
Bill Simmons
@BillSimmons
The Redskins are my favorite free agency team - its like watching a little kid plow thru an Amazon gift card. I NEED STUFF! I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MONEY WORKS! I SHOULD GET A SAFETY!
Bill Simmons
@BillSimmons
The Redskins are my favorite free agency team - its like watching a little kid plow thru an Amazon gift card. I NEED STUFF! I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MONEY WORKS! I SHOULD GET A SAFETY!
Lol, not typically a fan of Bill Simmons but that is hilarious and spot on at the same time.
I guess what bothers me about turning down a 3rd rounder
Is that it signals to me at least that Gettleman valued Collins highly, not wanting to let him go "cheap". So, why the about face, and no attempt to keep him? Is Collins damaged goods?
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
now we know why he is gone. I still wonder if we didnt trade him because we intended on resigning him and then his demands were way too high.
I believe it's either that or the Bucs (was that potential trade actually ever confirmed or just a rumour?) backed off when they learned of what numbers he was going to ask for. Definitely not worth paying him that much, and I think he's a good player that isn't as bad as people here make him out to be.
Hmmmm... so the problem is we don't know what the Giants were really offered for Collins.
If they were only offered a 4th round pick, this MIGHT end up being better for them IF they are eligible for comp picks (i.e., they lose more qualified free agents than they sign).
I wonder if we'll ever know what the Giants were offered for Collins.
wait. If the giants werent offered much, they will feed it to one of their friends in the press. If they screwed up and had a decent offer, no one will mention it.
And to get a comp pick at the end of a round means staying out of FA. Trading a guy gets you a pick in that round and does not require you to stay out of FA. A comp pick is more costly than a trade because you lose the player and must forego FA.
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
Everyone wants to be more like the Patriots - but then we do something the Patriots would do, and people still say Gettleman is making a huge mistake.
It's entertaining, if nothing else.
when a Gettleman hoists 6 SB trophies, he can cut Jesus Christ from the team and no one will say a word. Until then, lets go easy on the he does the same thing as the Pats. talk.
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
Everyone wants to be more like the Patriots - but then we do something the Patriots would do, and people still say Gettleman is making a huge mistake.
It's entertaining, if nothing else.
when a Gettleman hoists 6 SB trophies, he can cut Jesus Christ from the team and no one will say a word. Until then, lets go easy on the he does the same thing as the Pats. talk.
You dont make any sense. You blasted the Giants for their 200 million spending spree in 16, now youre blasting them because they didnt want to make a one dimensional, oft-injured safety one of the highest paid safeties in the league.
Do you bitch just to bitch?
The Giants need to focus on completing the OL and improving the front 7 on defense. How about let this play out instead of lamenting a lost player whos contract was terrible the moment the ink dried.
Comical people here. The Redskins haven't played in the
Super Bowl in 28 years. If Collins is one of the players responsible for their return, all of the Redskin fans will take to the streets complaining that he was overpaid? I don't think so.
In this game it is still considered necessary to get to and win the Super Bowl to be named league champ. Winning the PFF award for best salary cap management just doesn't have the same prestige.
So DG has systematically eliminated JPP, Harrison, Vernon and Collins. (To be kind, we'll leave out youngsters Apple and Okwara for now.) How many of these players has he replaced with players of equal or better value. I count none.
There are many here who think that the Giants will be able to replace all four during this offseason, while at the same time landing their franchise QB by trading for Josh Rosen or using their first and second round picks this year.
As bad as it sounds to give up a one and a two when you have so many defensive needs, to wait another year, wasting another of OBJ's prime, a mid-round draft choice will not get you the QB you want the most; the league consensus as the best.
You will have officially entered quarterback hell. Having twice missed your opportunity to grab your starter for the next decade, now there is no easy way to fix matters.
Hello, third round pick...
still can't believe they didnt trade him at the deadline
Hello, third round pick...
Not if we sign guys.
Killing the redskins for being dumb
Quote:
6-year, 84M
Hello, third round pick...
Not if we sign guys.
True
His favorite team growing up was the Washington franchise and yes, Sean Taylor was his idol.
There's only been like 4 deals so far. Haha
i cannot wait to watch barkley scorch that fucking defense with that guy covering haha
Quote:
as the dumbest deal of free agency.
There's only been like 4 deals so far. Haha
while i think BW is a clown, he is right here man. that is INSANE
LOLREDSKINS
$14M a year! No wonder Tyron didn't want to accept the $9.5M a year the Texans offered.
Still, no excuse for not trading him last season if they knew they were letting him walk.
I hate to see a former Giant in another NFC East uniform. Ugh!
Still, no excuse for not trading him last season if they knew they were letting him walk.
This
Barkley, Beckham, Engram
Wow. What a horrible contract. Good for Landon to get paid but so glad its not us. He is going to drive Skins fans nuts when he gets isolated into coverage.
No one thought he wouldn't get paid, but I am pretty sure no one thought he was going to get $14M per year. Especially in a market where there is a shit ton of safeties available.
Remember, he's a hitter, and he's coming off shoulder surgery.
This is how you kill your cap.
Barkley, Beckham, Engram
Wow. What a horrible contract. Good for Landon to get paid but so glad its not us. He is going to drive Skins fans nuts when he gets isolated into coverage.
I can see it now on game threads if we cant get take advantage of collins coverage. it would be epic bbi meltdown and rightfully so. he sucks in coverage, i look forward to it
Disciplinary action for Jenkins, Apple and DRC in 2017.
DRC and Apple unceremoniously dumped in 2018.
Collins regressed in 2017 and 2018 before being allowed to walk.
Jenkins is still here but a dead guy was found in his house.
Ugh.
most likely what happened
I thought he'd get paid. Just not this amount for a SS who can't cover me.
Killing the redskins for being dumb
Washington being dumb is par for the course
Quote:
.
No one thought he wouldn't get paid, but I am pretty sure no one thought he was going to get $14M per year. Especially in a market where there is a shit ton of safeties available.
Fans tend to come up with reasons to value players lower than the rest of the league actually values a player. Yes there are a shit ton of safeties available, and many of them aren't as good at what they do as he does.
Devin McCourty is making 13.6. Tony Jefferson is making 12.6. Accounting for how salaries go up every year, 14m isn't mindbending.
Look at what the Giants paid Solder. He wasn't close to a top 5 player at his position.
Can verbally agree today can put pen to paper on Thurs
Glad it wasn't the Giants giving out that contract.
the agent had this deal lined up with the skins....collins took it to gettleman....gettleman laughed at him.....collins angrily clears out locker and tweets goodbye to giants fans
hindsight always 20/20
Best of luck to LC and congrats on getting paid.
ROTFL
Have to agree. BBI would be freaking out if we signed Collins (whether resigned him or signed him from another team) based on the production and that salary.. Crazy money for a somewhat limited S.
Remember, he's a hitter, and he's coming off shoulder surgery.
This is how you kill your cap.
Alex Smith says, "Hold My Beer".
the agent had this deal lined up with the skins....collins took it to gettleman....gettleman laughed at him.....collins angrily clears out locker and tweets goodbye to giants fans
hindsight always 20/20
Jerry Reach
30 year old player vs a 25 year old player.
For real. There's no doubt in my mind Collins was her "go to" guy in the locker room up here.
Quote:
to see if Josina continues her shit-stirring coverage in Washington.
For real. There's no doubt in my mind Collins was her "go to" guy in the locker room up here.
Which could be part of the reason why DG wanted to let him go.
He had a legit All Pro season in 2016, and he was appropriately rated. His play fell off, and he incurred injuries the next two years. His significant limitations in coverage became more apparent, especially with the Giants lacking a legit FS to play alongside LC. By and large the assessment of LC leveled off here. There were a vocal few who didn't see that. But the hyperbole in this post is over the top. I don't disagree that the Skins overpaid, by a lot.
Quote:
In comment 14324728 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
to see if Josina continues her shit-stirring coverage in Washington.
For real. There's no doubt in my mind Collins was her "go to" guy in the locker room up here.
Which could be part of the reason why DG wanted to let him go.
Absolutely. He was admonished my Ben and Shurmur twice with his public "leadership". As fans, it might have served as our pound of flesh that we demanded for watching terrible football for years. But the vocal nature of Collins was not appreciated in house. DG has been charged with changing the culture.
So we have another big hole in the defense to fill .
Do we ever get any decent comp picks ?
Oh well Good Luck Landon !
This is what players thet have all-pro seasons where they finish second in DPOY go for on the open market when they are 25. I dont think this is the Skins blowing away the other offers either, think other teams were willing to give him close to that.
Its a risk and I wouldnt pay it but he certainly had value that some were in denial about.
And oh, BTW, that is ridiculous money. Good for Landon, I just wouldnt want my team to pay that for him.
Collins is a good player, but that is a ridiculous contract for someone who has not lived up to his 2016 season and who finished the last two years on IR.
Giants may get a comp pick out of this if they don't sign more free agents than they lose. But again - and yes, to beat a dead horse - the Giants knew this was coming and they should have traded him in October to the Bucs for a high 3rd rounder.
Collins is a good player, but that is a ridiculous contract for someone who has not lived up to his 2016 season and who finished the last two years on IR.
Giants may get a comp pick out of this if they don't sign more free agents than they lose. But again - and yes, to beat a dead horse - the Giants knew this was coming and they should have traded him in October to the Bucs for a high 3rd rounder.
maybe they thought they could resign him and didnt deal him to then later realize his asking was just to high.
based on this contract, it wasn't inflated
because maybe they felt they could get it done for less. maybe they would have paid him this much but something happened internally that made DG and co change their mind. maybe early in the year everything was fine but later on, collins did something that pissed them off. we dont know the internal stuff. it isnt always as simple as well we didnt sign him, we should have traded him. its common sense to do that if you KNOW you arewnt resigning him.
im gonna go with DG intended to sign him long term but something happened, whether it be an issue or just his asking became to much. something clearly changed for the giants and collins
How could he not? You should hear what the idiots on ESPN are saying about him. "Can't put a price on leadership..."
Actually, you can if "leadership" can't cover a TE or RB out of the backfield.
Quote:
In comment 14324732 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14324728 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
to see if Josina continues her shit-stirring coverage in Washington.
For real. There's no doubt in my mind Collins was her "go to" guy in the locker room up here.
Which could be part of the reason why DG wanted to let him go.
Absolutely. He was admonished my Ben and Shurmur twice with his public "leadership". As fans, it might have served as our pound of flesh that we demanded for watching terrible football for years. But the vocal nature of Collins was not appreciated in house. DG has been charged with changing the culture.
I can only imagine what will happen with both Collins and Norman feeding the Washington Post.
DC is a Nationals/Caps town for a reason.
Quote:
No wonder why Giants and Redskins keep battling each other for last place in the NFC East.
Collins is a good player, but that is a ridiculous contract for someone who has not lived up to his 2016 season and who finished the last two years on IR.
Giants may get a comp pick out of this if they don't sign more free agents than they lose. But again - and yes, to beat a dead horse - the Giants knew this was coming and they should have traded him in October to the Bucs for a high 3rd rounder.
maybe they thought they could resign him and didnt deal him to then later realize his asking was just to high.
I don't think DG wanted any part of Collins.
I liked LC very much, but not at $14 mill per. Guys best position may very well be as OLB...
Can you see LC trying to cover Saquon on a wheel route next fall?
Quote:
There is a difference between what some teams will spend and how a player plays on the field. Collins thinks he has played like an All-Pro safety the last three years. He hasn't.
How could he not? You should hear what the idiots on ESPN are saying about him. "Can't put a price on leadership..."
Actually, you can if "leadership" can't cover a TE or RB out of the backfield.
Leadership that throws other players under the bus to the press ass well
He could to be much better with skins D, that has a very good D-line.
I liked LC very much, but not at $14 mill per. Guys best position may very well be as OLB...
Can you see LC trying to cover Saquon on a wheel route next fall?
I keep seeing KC, but there were articles on the Bucs offering a 3rd. If Gettleman wasn't going to pay Collins, he obviously should have taken the 3rd rounder. Who cares what the fans say? His job is to do what is best for the team.
At the time, I was pretty vocal about dumping as many players at the time for picks as possible.
Collins is a good player, but that is a ridiculous contract for someone who has not lived up to his 2016 season and who finished the last two years on IR.
Giants may get a comp pick out of this if they don't sign more free agents than they lose. But again - and yes, to beat a dead horse - the Giants knew this was coming and they should have traded him in October to the Bucs for a high 3rd rounder.
Maybe the should have traded him in October, but I think this is being over blown. If they thought there was a chance the could keep him I can see why they let it play out. Also, they need to keep the stands from being empty and Collins is a popular player.
Let's put it this way, if Gettleman and Shurmur fail it won't be because of how they handled Landon Collins.
...but this is new regime, new philosophy, and a General Manager who is willing to crack a lot of eggs to make his own omelet.
Which is not to say I would have paid $84 Big Ones for an in-the-box Safety who has significant problems in pass coverage.
Oh, well... will be very happy so long as the Giants Defense does not occupy the very bottom 32nd rung of the NFL in 2019.
Maybe so, but I could also see him intercepting Eli 3 times next year.
can't blame the giants for the cards not falling the way they would have liked them.
this is basically the contract we gave Vernon in 2016 lol. way too much for a safety unless they want to move him to some hybrid linebacker...
Quote:
How can teams sign guys today?
Can verbally agree today can put pen to paper on Thurs
Quote:
Getting the 3rd from KC seems the obvious choice 6 months later, but can you imagine the hue and cry if he was traded at the time for a 3rd? Some were ok with it, most were not.
I liked LC very much, but not at $14 mill per. Guys best position may very well be as OLB...
Can you see LC trying to cover Saquon on a wheel route next fall?
I keep seeing KC, but there were articles on the Bucs offering a 3rd. If Gettleman wasn't going to pay Collins, he obviously should have taken the 3rd rounder. Who cares what the fans say? His job is to do what is best for the team.
At the time, I was pretty vocal about dumping as many players at the time for picks as possible.
I don't remember the Bucs, but that does not mean much. KC is who was reported, maybe the Bucs did too - and of course that would have been a much better trade.
First and foremost he is already a fan favorite and they are desperate to put butts in the seats. This will do that and sell Jersey's. Mark my words, he will be on of the top 3 highest selling Redskins jerseys this season.
Buccaneers Offered Third-Rounder For Landon Collins In 2018 - ( New Window )
yea no....its ot sour grapes. if you watch the bears game from last year...collins couldnt cover anyone. he has ALWAYS struggled in coverage. go look ANYWHERE about the deal. everyone is saying its an overpay for a one dimensional safety. this isnt giant fans just salty and saying he sucks anyways
Anyhow, I hate that he is a skin, but i'm glad they backed the truck for him. I think he can still be very good, but he is not worth that contract
Didn't the Bucs deny this? Dunleavy wrote just 5 days ago that the best offer for LC was a 4th rounder
link - ( New Window )
I'll be cheering for you to lay the wood on Dallas and Philly.
Or at least wait to see what we do with the money we didn't pay Collins. If we use it to replace him and get another decent player than great! But if not then we're just praising the Giants for letting a guy leave...which in of itself doesn't make the team better.
Quote:
Here you go... Buccaneers Offered Third-Rounder For Landon Collins In 2018 - ( New Window )
Didn't the Bucs deny this? Dunleavy wrote just 5 days ago that the best offer for LC was a 4th rounder link - ( New Window )
My guess is that DG wanted to increase the price for Collins and floated rumors about the trade offer. I think his plan was always to get rid of Collins after the season. He misplayed his hand on trying to get higher offers for Collins.
Tashaun Gipson fits.
We were smart to not overpay here.
Link - ( New Window )
i'm glad for collins that he gets his payday and with his favorite team. i always liked him. i cheered like crazy when reese traded up to get him.
Quote:
General manager Dave Gettleman could have franchised him for the 2019 season at $11.2 million, and even if the team didn't think Collins was a long-term building block for the defense, the Giants could have used the tag to explore the trade market for their starting safety. Given that he will average more than the tag number on a long-term deal, it's pretty clear he would have had some semblance of a market.
Link - ( New Window )
What if they just get a 3rd rounder back as compensation now and the only offer we had on the table in-season was a 4?
This rumor was debunked by Art Stapleton
Major screw up by Gettlemen. With the way FA is going, if he could have signed LC for $10 mill a year, it would have been a good contract, and if he wasn't going to do that, then Eric is right, you assure yourself of a 3rd round pick. We may get nothing out of this, and I don't know how you go about building a team when you are always taking one step forward and a step back.
Major screw up by Gettlemen. With the way FA is going, if he could have signed LC for $10 mill a year, it would have been a good contract, and if he wasn't going to do that, then Eric is right, you assure yourself of a 3rd round pick. We may get nothing out of this, and I don't know how you go about building a team when you are always taking one step forward and a step back.
Market price doesn't mean it's wise to spend it.
And it does matter, there's a salary cap in this league and fans are going to be keyed on how their team is spending those cap dollars.
It matters for obvious reasons - it's finite space.
Again - the 3rd round pick wasn't even offered. It sounds like the best we got was a 4.
We do get something out of this. Cap space to pursue someone better or someone cheaper, and we may get a comp pick that is better than what could have been recouped in the trade market.
If we do, then all of a sudden what we did makes perfect sense and everyone who has been fucking losing their mind over Gettleman not trading him can... stop. Or relax.
It is like people just look for ways to throw crap at DG.
Meanwhile, we just walked from a guy who weakened a division rivals cap.
There were reports of a 3rd at the time of the deadline, no reports of a 4th. Before the final decision reports of 3rds still. It was only after we announced he wouldnt be back and the front office got planned that their were sources reporting that it wasnt a 3rd.
Given the sequence of facts and their release it certainly lends more to trying to make it look like less of a screw up than what actually occurred.
It is like people just look for ways to throw crap at DG.
Meanwhile, we just walked from a guy who weakened a division rivals cap.
You can argue we actually weakened the Redskins defense in general. Teams are going to have a field day throwing across the middle on them now.
Quote:
the people calling it a major screwup by Gettleman based on a rumor that was debunked.
It is like people just look for ways to throw crap at DG.
Meanwhile, we just walked from a guy who weakened a division rivals cap.
You can argue we actually weakened the Redskins defense in general. Teams are going to have a field day throwing across the middle on them now.
I'm not one of those guys thinking the Skins can't cover now. LC is not as bad as folk may out and he had a lot of covering to do for Webb and Riley but he is average vs the pass and that isn't likely to change. We have bigger needs. It's that simple.
It is like people just look for ways to throw crap at DG.
Meanwhile, we just walked from a guy who weakened a division rivals cap.
DG doing a fine job!
If they were only offered a 4th round pick, this MIGHT end up being better for them IF they are eligible for comp picks (i.e., they lose more qualified free agents than they sign).
I wonder if we'll ever know what the Giants were offered for Collins.
I'm not one of those guys thinking the Skins can't cover now. LC is not as bad as folk may out and he had a lot of covering to do for Webb and Riley but he is average vs the pass and that isn't likely to change. We have bigger needs. It's that simple.
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe - so long as it makes the team better.
Both of your points really summed up the situation well.
Major screw up by Gettlemen. With the way FA is going, if he could have signed LC for $10 mill a year, it would have been a good contract, and if he wasn't going to do that, then Eric is right, you assure yourself of a 3rd round pick. We may get nothing out of this, and I don't know how you go about building a team when you are always taking one step forward and a step back.
By not overpaying for a S when you have bigger needs on the OL and the DL/LB positions.
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
Quote:
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
Everyone wants to be more like the Patriots - but then we do something the Patriots would do, and people still say Gettleman is making a huge mistake.
It's entertaining, if nothing else.
Thanks dicks!
And I like LC as a player, but this contract is bonkers.
Thanks dicks!
Exactly, I had this conversation with someone today. At first i was thrilled to see the Redskins overpay as usual. But then I thought shit, good luck signing a safety to a realistic deal from now on.
@BillSimmons
The Redskins are my favorite free agency team - its like watching a little kid plow thru an Amazon gift card. I NEED STUFF! I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MONEY WORKS! I SHOULD GET A SAFETY!
@BillSimmons
The Redskins are my favorite free agency team - its like watching a little kid plow thru an Amazon gift card. I NEED STUFF! I HAVE NO IDEA HOW MONEY WORKS! I SHOULD GET A SAFETY!
Lol, not typically a fan of Bill Simmons but that is hilarious and spot on at the same time.
Quote:
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
so you're saying Odell is as good as gone?
I believe it's either that or the Bucs (was that potential trade actually ever confirmed or just a rumour?) backed off when they learned of what numbers he was going to ask for. Definitely not worth paying him that much, and I think he's a good player that isn't as bad as people here make him out to be.
If they were only offered a 4th round pick, this MIGHT end up being better for them IF they are eligible for comp picks (i.e., they lose more qualified free agents than they sign).
I wonder if we'll ever know what the Giants were offered for Collins.
And to get a comp pick at the end of a round means staying out of FA. Trading a guy gets you a pick in that round and does not require you to stay out of FA. A comp pick is more costly than a trade because you lose the player and must forego FA.
Quote:
surprised this doesn't get more play here:
Quote:
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
Everyone wants to be more like the Patriots - but then we do something the Patriots would do, and people still say Gettleman is making a huge mistake.
It's entertaining, if nothing else.
Quote:
In comment 14325284 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
surprised this doesn't get more play here:
Quote:
If you look at DG's track record in Carolina, it is obvious he isn't afraid of giving anyone the axe
In Carolina, he let Steve Smith and DeAngelo Williams go, even though they were popular vets. Both were hitting the point where players traditionally hit a wall.
Then he let Josh Norman go at the peak of his career because he was going to be a huge headache and wanted to be franchised.
And he was eventually let go because he was looking to do the same with Greg Olsen and Thomas Davis.
Yet the exact opposite narrative is what most Giants fans label DG with.
Everyone wants to be more like the Patriots - but then we do something the Patriots would do, and people still say Gettleman is making a huge mistake.
It's entertaining, if nothing else.
when a Gettleman hoists 6 SB trophies, he can cut Jesus Christ from the team and no one will say a word. Until then, lets go easy on the he does the same thing as the Pats. talk.
You dont make any sense. You blasted the Giants for their 200 million spending spree in 16, now youre blasting them because they didnt want to make a one dimensional, oft-injured safety one of the highest paid safeties in the league.
Do you bitch just to bitch?
The Giants need to focus on completing the OL and improving the front 7 on defense. How about let this play out instead of lamenting a lost player whos contract was terrible the moment the ink dried.
In this game it is still considered necessary to get to and win the Super Bowl to be named league champ. Winning the PFF award for best salary cap management just doesn't have the same prestige.
So DG has systematically eliminated JPP, Harrison, Vernon and Collins. (To be kind, we'll leave out youngsters Apple and Okwara for now.) How many of these players has he replaced with players of equal or better value. I count none.
There are many here who think that the Giants will be able to replace all four during this offseason, while at the same time landing their franchise QB by trading for Josh Rosen or using their first and second round picks this year.
As bad as it sounds to give up a one and a two when you have so many defensive needs, to wait another year, wasting another of OBJ's prime, a mid-round draft choice will not get you the QB you want the most; the league consensus as the best.
You will have officially entered quarterback hell. Having twice missed your opportunity to grab your starter for the next decade, now there is no easy way to fix matters.
Link - ( New Window )