A Giants fan called in asking about the Giants trading for Rosen. Weis laughed and deferred the question to Papa. Papa raised concern over his work ethic and leadership ability as the Casserly report echoes what was being said about him coming out of UCLA and suggests this attitude may have followed him to Arizona. The discussion ended with a “hard pass” on Rosen...
For a guy with Rosen's arm talent it seems like a super low risk to me. I think he's a better QB prospect than anyone in this draft.
Your points are valid, if you truly like the player. But if he was better than the other QB’s in this draft I would think someone would be offering up a lot more than a second rounder for him. Time will tell I guess.
you think if the Dolphins could go back and do it all over again that they would invest many years in Ryan Tannehill? The Redskins got cousins as a lower draft pick and aren't any better off, and actually got worse at the position by overpaying for a guy whose leg was mangled.
Let me first say, I've never been much of a Rosen fan. But if you get a guy cheaply enough in terms of picks given up and money, AND you are willing to walk away from them quickly (within a season like what we did with Webb) if they are not working out, then its worth a shot.
If you decide you have to invest in them years of development time, then I agree with you.
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it again - but the only way a player is a steal, especially at the QB position, is if he's a franchise QB. Anything less than that and what you actually give up for him is only part of the equation. The other part is the time you wait for him to develop.
you think if the Dolphins could go back and do it all over again that they would invest many years in Ryan Tannehill? The Redskins got cousins as a lower draft pick and aren't any better off, and actually got worse at the position by overpaying for a guy whose leg was mangled.
Again, this is flawed thinking. Ryan Tannehill-level production at $2M for 2019 is a good deal. And it doesn't stop the Giants from drafting a QB in 2020 if Rosen is a disaster in 2019.
Consider the alternative: paying Eli $23M to give you Ryan Tannehill production.
One option is cheap, has an easy out, and has massive potential upside. The other is expensive and has zero upside. It's a no brainer for an objective front office that isn't influenced by nostalgia and sentimentality.
Nostalgia and sentimentality are going to cost the Giants $23M against the salary cap in 2019, but lead to no additional wins.
I'm with Terps here. I could be wrong, but I think the Giants don't win many fewer games by cutting Eli and starting say, Rosen, plus a couple other players. The worst case scenario is that we are where we are next year, but have moved farther along in building the roster.
For a guy with Rosen's arm talent it seems like a super low risk to me. I think he's a better QB prospect than anyone in this draft.
Put me in the minority here, but I am not averse to a #1 for Rosen if that was needed. #6 seems high for sure, but just in terms of what it might take.
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In comment 14326147 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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it again - but the only way a player is a steal, especially at the QB position, is if he's a franchise QB. Anything less than that and what you actually give up for him is only part of the equation. The other part is the time you wait for him to develop.
you think if the Dolphins could go back and do it all over again that they would invest many years in Ryan Tannehill? The Redskins got cousins as a lower draft pick and aren't any better off, and actually got worse at the position by overpaying for a guy whose leg was mangled.
Again, this is flawed thinking. Ryan Tannehill-level production at $2M for 2019 is a good deal. And it doesn't stop the Giants from drafting a QB in 2020 if Rosen is a disaster in 2019.
Consider the alternative: paying Eli $23M to give you Ryan Tannehill production.
One option is cheap, has an easy out, and has massive potential upside. The other is expensive and has zero upside. It's a no brainer for an objective front office that isn't influenced by nostalgia and sentimentality.
Nostalgia and sentimentality are going to cost the Giants $23M against the salary cap in 2019, but lead to no additional wins.
I'm with Terps here. I could be wrong, but I think the Giants don't win many fewer games by cutting Eli and starting say, Rosen, plus a couple other players. The worst case scenario is that we are where we are next year, but have moved farther along in building the roster.
I don’t think we have moved further along. We move further with a second round pick than we would with eli’s Cap money. Maybe if we’re talking a late round pick I would do it as a one year flyer.
But what if Rosen isn't complete dogshit, but like I said above - Tannehill?
It isn't a good deal to get Tannehill-type production, regardless of the cost. Why?? Because success goes through the QB unless you have an extremely strong defense. Tannehill isn't getting you to the SB, or even the playoffs. It is like having Kirk Cousins on a cheap deal. Was it worth it for the Redskins?
Is having Winston on a rookie deal worth it for the Bucs?
By your line of thinking, investing in Peterman wouldn't be bad. He's a steal!!!
Neither is Eli.
And what if Rosen isn't Tannehill? What if he's Drew Brees?
Grade: 89
Strong Points
-Knows and understands the game inside and out, very intelligent on the field
-Advanced footwork and release, consistent mechanics
-Excels at passes within the intermediate range
Weak Points:
-Deep ball accuracy is inconsistent
-Slight frame plus concussion issues plus tennis background causes for some durability concern
-Doesn’t pose much of a threat as a passer on the move
Summary:
Junior entry. Has had the look of a pro passer since his freshman season. The 3 year career at UCLA didn’t pan out the way many were hoping for, but it can’t be pinned on him. His supporting cast was dreadful. The pass catchers dropped more balls than any of the other QBs in this top-of-the-draft discussion, there was no running game to lean on, and the offensive line was very leaky up the middle. With all of that, Rosen still threw for 9,342 yards and 59 touchdowns. One red flag, however, is that he missed 8 games over the past 2 years with various injuries. And another nugget here is that more teams are fearful of his knees not holding up, as that is a consistent occurrence with tennis players when they get in to their late 20’s-early 30’s. Rosen was a big time tennis player in his teen years, so it is something to consider.
Here is something I am confident can be put to bed. Rosen is not a character risk. He is not going to be an issue with the media, he is not going to be a problem with the coaches and players. He is not going to be a problem socially. This kid knows more about football than a lot of current professionals. He studies it hard, practices hard, and was head and shoulders on another level than his teammates mentally and physically. If you could guarantee be Rosen can stay on the field, his grade would be 90+, elite. NYG could be the perfect spot for him as it will allow him to add bulk to his frame for a year or two, use his intelligence to pick up the schemes and tendencies of the NFL, and be ready to rock in 2019 or 2020. During that time, you let Davis Webb handle backup duties and if he proves to be a solid player, you have a very good problem on your hands, one that several teams will pay up for.
NFL Comparison: Matt Ryan / ATL
Would you take Matt Ryan for a 2nd round pick?
"If I had to choose, I’d probably pick Rosen as my No. 1 quarterback in this year’s class."
Cosell, who is widely regarded as one of the most knowledgeable and trusted analysts, said that he doesn't see many weaknesses in Rosen's game tape after further evaluation:
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"Rosen has very good mechanics that he repeated consistently: good ball position, firm base, excellent balance, compact delivery, good velocity." Cosell wrote. "There was a calmness and poise to his pocket play. For NFL teams that value pocket play, Rosen will be a desirable prospect in this draft. He doesn’t have many weaknesses, as we’ll see as we break down his game."
Cosell on Rosen - ( New Window )
it called fail fast. Unfortunately we have been failing with the same groceries since 2011.
I think Rosen could be had for our 2nd rounder and maybe a pick next year, which would allow us to get a pass rusher in round 1. This is ideal like you said because of the low cost involved.
The other option is to draft a QB in round 1 like Haskins or Lock and hope a good defensive player is there.
But what if Rosen isn't complete dogshit, but like I said above - Tannehill?
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Again, this is flawed thinking. Ryan Tannehill-level production at $2M for 2019 is a good deal.
It isn't a good deal to get Tannehill-type production, regardless of the cost. Why?? Because success goes through the QB unless you have an extremely strong defense. Tannehill isn't getting you to the SB, or even the playoffs. It is like having Kirk Cousins on a cheap deal. Was it worth it for the Redskins?
Is having Winston on a rookie deal worth it for the Bucs?
By your line of thinking, investing in Peterman wouldn't be bad. He's a steal!!!
Yeah I have to agree with you there.... Tannehill, Cousins et al are teases. Teases are what leads to QB hell... You always hope they take the proverbial next step.
Lets say you can get Rosen for our 4th... And if he doesn't light it up, walk away and go for one of the young guns in 2020. I know some folks are willing to part with a lot more than a 4th for Rosen, but I think he needs to come at a very steep discount at this point.