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Giants On The Clock At 6, 3 Def Players, 2 QBs Are Gone

Trainmaster : 3/12/2019 9:52 am
My scenario:

Arizona has traded Rosen (say to the Redskins for next year's first rounder)

The Raiders have traded Carr (or they keep him for one year with the rookie QB playing behind him)

Gettleman has tried to trade up, but the cost is too high (teams start by demanding next year's first rounder)

1 - Arizona takes Murray
2 - SF takes Bosa (or Q Williams or J Allen)
3 - Jets (or trading partner) take Q Williams (or Bosa or Allen)
4 - Raiders take Haskins
5 - Tampa Bay takes J Allen

Gettleman looks to trade down, but again only gets offers for the 6th overall pick that amount to "a bag of donuts, a hot pretzel and a hot dog"

You're in Gettleman's shoes, who do you pick? Likely from among:

OL
Cody Ford, OT, Oklahoma
Jawaan Taylor, OT, Florida
Jonah Williams, OT, Alabama

DL/LB
Clelin Ferrell, EDGE, Clemson
Rashan Gary, EDGE, Michigan
Ed Oliver, DT, Houston
Montez Sweat, EDGE, Mississippi State
Devin White, LB, LSU

If they're convinced J Williams can eventually be the left tackle or center, do the Giants pick him and put him at RT (or center) in 2019?

Sweat would be a JPP like pick. White or Ferrell seem to be safer picks.

Who do you pick?


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Gary  
jayg5 : 3/12/2019 10:10 am : link
Isn’t good enough either IMO
Sweat  
sjnyfan : 3/12/2019 10:11 am : link
Gary, Allen and White are too rich for me at 6. Sweat I think will be a terror for years to come and will probably give Bettcher his Chandler Jones type. Burns has to be in the conversation for the same reason.
Devon White  
Rjanyg : 3/12/2019 10:11 am : link
He brings speed, physicality, attitude and leadership. He can blitz, cover and tackle.

It is what our defense needs. He won't come off the field.
That's happened before  
The Turk : 3/12/2019 10:11 am : link
we panic and take the best available one eyed DE
Oliver  
English Alaister : 3/12/2019 10:12 am : link
for me. He is an insane talent and perfect for LDE in a 3-4.

Sweat is my fallback.

Please not Gary.
I think Oliver  
beatrixkiddo : 3/12/2019 10:13 am : link
would be excellent as a 3-4 DE and just what this DL needs. Sweat would be alright w/ me, but he needs to work on his moves, wonder how far Polite may drop, if he can be had with our 2nd that would be an amazing 1/2 to snag Oliver and Polite.
Sweat  
AcidTest : 3/12/2019 10:14 am : link
but Oliver is fine.
RE: they should trade down  
superspynyg : 3/12/2019 10:18 am : link
In comment 14325972 GiantsFan84 said:
Quote:
bush > white
taylor / ford > williams
burns > gary / ferril


You make it sound so easy to trade back. What if the only offer to trade is to move back to say 20 and only get a 4th? do you do it?
3-4 DE at #6 overall  
JonC : 3/12/2019 10:20 am : link
isn't a great use of the pick, there has to be some positional awareness based on scheme in their decision process. Remember, the 3-4 is built on value up front and the backend, typically, the premium is at edge.
Any one of Sweat,  
Eman11 : 3/12/2019 10:21 am : link
White or Jonah Williams would be great with me.
I think Sweat could be the best  
Metnut : 3/12/2019 10:21 am : link
player in the draft, so I'd go for him. Oliver would be a really nice pick too.
i'd be fine  
cjac : 3/12/2019 10:22 am : link
with White, Sweat or Gary
RE: RE: RE: I think its gonna be Gary  
jvm52106 : 3/12/2019 10:30 am : link
In comment 14325985 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14325981 The_Boss said:


Quote:



Oliver
Sweat
Gary


In that order is my suggestion.



I am up in the air about Oliver. As silly as it was, that outburst last year is something I see the Giants staying away from.


Oliver would be without a position with the Giants. He is not a 5 and certainly not a nose tackle in a 3-4. He isn't an OLB candidate so now a shift to thumper ILB would be in play. No to Oliver.

Do NOT discount a Top Corner.
no CB in play either  
JonC : 3/12/2019 10:31 am : link
they're going big.
There's no corner worth taking at 6  
jeff57 : 3/12/2019 10:32 am : link
.
Jon  
jayg5 : 3/12/2019 10:37 am : link
If those are reasons why Oliver wouldn’t be
A smart pick what positional does Gary play in 3-4?

I’d respectfully disagree if you think it’s to play nose tackle in 3-4
I think it would be Sweat  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/12/2019 10:38 am : link
Produced in the SEC, produced at the combine. If he's not a headcase.
Gary would play at end in a 3-4  
jeff57 : 3/12/2019 10:39 am : link
.
RE: Jon  
JonC : 3/12/2019 10:42 am : link
In comment 14326157 jayg5 said:
Quote:
If those are reasons why Oliver wouldn’t be
A smart pick what positional does Gary play in 3-4?

I’d respectfully disagree if you think it’s to play nose tackle in 3-4


Jay, again, historically teams running a 3-4 tend to put the money at edge. Some have put the money at NT, when they've had a dominant one worth it. They typically don't spend it at end. If Oliver is their guy, he's probably playing NT. 3-4 DEs are mostly blocker eaters. Read up.

Gary can play OLB as the elephant. When healthy, he explodes off the screen. If they want a player who will play more in space, then RG probably isn't that guy.
Agree Jeff  
jayg5 : 3/12/2019 10:43 am : link
Which is why I don’t understand the opinion that 3-4 DE wouldn’t
make too much sense then say Gary should be pick.

You guys need to read up  
JonC : 3/12/2019 10:43 am : link
on the 3-4.
DG doesn't trade down, so that's probably off the table...  
GFAN52 : 3/12/2019 10:45 am : link
Devin White.
and if the Giants don't like Gary  
JonC : 3/12/2019 10:48 am : link
I've no problem with it, they're the professionals.
Take the 10 yr OT  
morrison40 : 3/12/2019 10:56 am : link
A guy who can start on the RT and flip over to LT
Jon  
jayg5 : 3/12/2019 10:58 am : link
I understand it but just in the opinion that
Oliver would be a 3-4 DE.
I didn't say he would be a DE  
JonC : 3/12/2019 11:00 am : link
you seem confused.
Ha yes I read above statement wrong  
jayg5 : 3/12/2019 11:12 am : link
Going to get myself another coffee now lol
Sweat, no sweat.  
Red Dog : 3/12/2019 12:08 pm : link
White would probably be my next choice.
RE: Run to the podium  
figgy2989 : 3/12/2019 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14326009 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
for Devin White.


This
RE: Sweat, no sweat.  
jeff57 : 3/12/2019 12:14 pm : link
In comment 14326505 Red Dog said:
Quote:
White would probably be my next choice.


Agree.
Montez Sweat and its not close IMO  
Pan-handler : 3/12/2019 12:15 pm : link
Can never have too many pass rushers and right now we have none with high upside to touch 8+ (except hopefully an emerging Carter). Sweat could hit that year 1.
Gary glaring lack of production relative to talent  
Pan-handler : 3/12/2019 12:19 pm : link
You don't touch those types in the the top 10. You want BOTH production and elite relevant to the position measurables when picking that high.

White while a very nice player is not a pass rush monster and with our glaring lack we need one of those for Bettchers D.
Jon,  
Leg of Theismann : 3/12/2019 12:57 pm : link
So Gary would be the elephant, but wouldn't Sweat also be the elephant if he was the pick? I just find it funny the 2 have very different builds yet would play the same position... which player would be considered more ideal in terms of frame?

It's also funny to me that Gary is often talked about as 3T in a 4-3 (a DT basically) but then you're saying he would be an outside LB in our 3-4 simply because the 5T (DE) wouldn't showcase his pass-rushing abilities, he would just be there to eat up blocks. Do I have that right?

All I know is I'd rather take the player that fits best in Bettcher's scheme as the "showcase" pass-rusher (which in other words would be the elephant a.k.a. Jack). I guess that just means whichever guy has both the speed to beat an LT and the strength to beat a RT, right? It does seem like that could be Gary, but the thing that worries me is the fact he was somewhat lacking in production in college and now we're going to ask him to change and tailor his game to a new position and suddenly become MORE productive in the NFL?

The more we talk about this the more I'm thinking Sweat could be the choice. Anyone who's 260 lbs and runs a 4.4 40 (and looks as explosive on the field as he times) is worthy of #6 overall IMO, especially if he has a couple years worth of solid production in the SEC under his belt.
RE: That's happened before  
LauderdaleMatty : 3/12/2019 12:58 pm : link
In comment 14326059 The Turk said:
Quote:
we panic and take the best available one eyed DE
m


This draft is deeper than that one. What a disaster. But at least they didn’t draft Phillips lol.

I’d take White Sweat or Gary. Most likely in that order due to wondering about Gary a bit due to less definable college production. All three are not huge reaches at 6. And if the top 2 QBs and top 3 tenders are gone no one is trading for that 6 th pick.
There is NO way Oliver  
jvm52106 : 3/12/2019 1:10 pm : link
will be a NT in a 3-4. He is too small. He can bulk up some but I just don't see it. He isn't a 3-4 end either. He is 4-3 tackle ala Donald but not as quick or strong as Donald.

The Giants have to be looking LB. Allen would be the best choice but probably not available.
Leg  
JonC : 3/12/2019 1:13 pm : link
I think Gary would play some 5T in 3-4 looks, as as well as the Elephant rush spot off the edge. He has the frame for both, but the money and impact comes from
the ER. He has tremendous burst and closing speed downhill off the edge. He could certainly play 4-3 DE when they mix looks as they often do. Bettcher's scheme
is a bit different, but he values power, speed, and versatility which Gary has. Giants certainly need to answer questions regarding his injuries slowing him down in 2018, but his 2017 film is the goods. Fans should take a close look at it. I think he'll be in the mix. Unfortunately, despite considerable front seven talent
being available in this draft, there's no ideal NYG pick to my eye.

I'm not sold on Sweat at #6, but he would be an ER.
Gary or White  
ryanmkeane : 3/12/2019 1:39 pm : link
for me and I think they both will be awesome pros
College production is a bit  
ryanmkeane : 3/12/2019 1:40 pm : link
overrated. You have to look at the projection. With Gary’s athletic ability and in the right scheme, he can be a monster
Gary is 6’4  
ryanmkeane : 3/12/2019 1:42 pm : link
277 pounds, did the 3 cone in 7.26, the 40 in 4.58 and his vert was 38 inches. That is essentially unheard of for a guy his size.
RE: Leg  
Leg of Theismann : 3/12/2019 2:01 pm : link
In comment 14326669 JonC said:
Quote:
I think Gary would play some 5T in 3-4 looks, as as well as the Elephant rush spot off the edge. He has the frame for both, but the money and impact comes from
the ER. He has tremendous burst and closing speed downhill off the edge. He could certainly play 4-3 DE when they mix looks as they often do. Bettcher's scheme
is a bit different, but he values power, speed, and versatility which Gary has. Giants certainly need to answer questions regarding his injuries slowing him down in 2018, but his 2017 film is the goods. Fans should take a close look at it. I think he'll be in the mix. Unfortunately, despite considerable front seven talent
being available in this draft, there's no ideal NYG pick to my eye.

I'm not sold on Sweat at #6, but he would be an ER.


Jon, thanks for the insight. On not being sold on any player: are you including Bosa, Big Q, and Allen as well? I know not likely those guys will be available, but just curious.

Of all the front 7s in this draft which do you think would be most ideal for the Giants in terms of both overall talent/ability combined with scheme?

If there really is no ideal player when we're on the clock maybe we really do just stay put and take Haskins or hope someone is trying to trade up (move back to #13 or #15 and get Miami's or Washington's 2nd rounder and 2020 1st).
For me it's a hard choice between Devin White, Ferrell and Sweat.  
yatqb : 3/12/2019 2:02 pm : link
I think I'd go White, as there are far more DL in this draft than great LBs.
I'd go D. White  
SGMen : 3/12/2019 2:05 pm : link
Safe, talented pick who starts day 1.
RE: Gary is 6’4  
JonC : 3/12/2019 2:05 pm : link
In comment 14326729 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
277 pounds, did the 3 cone in 7.26, the 40 in 4.58 and his vert was 38 inches. That is essentially unheard of for a guy his size.


Yep, it confirmed what I thought was visible in a lot of the film I watched on him. If there's any questions regarding his college productivity, I get it. But, I think he'll be in the mix at #6.
I think we'll have high grades on  
JonC : 3/12/2019 2:22 pm : link
Bosa and Allan, perhaps a tier lower on Gary. A few years ago I liked Ziggy Ansah, and met considerable resistance here for it. It's a similar debate and wager on the young man's upside.

Ferrell looks like a pure 4-3 DE to me, not seeing his upside projecting to a 3-4 ER.

Big Q and Oliver look like 3T's in a 4-3 to me, but talented enough to be picked at #6. Just not certain NYG will want to pick a 3-4 DE that high, teams don't typically draft them that high nor pay them scale on the second pro contract.

If there's no ER they want at #6, I hope they look to move down a few spots to grab one, or an OT.
White, Gary or Sweat  
TMS : 3/12/2019 2:24 pm : link
All have tremendous potential to be all pro calibre. Lean toward a sideline to sideline LB like White though . Its been a long time since we have had that kind of talent at that position.
Would hope they would trade AO  
JonC : 3/12/2019 2:31 pm : link
if spending a #6 overall pick on an ILB.
It would have to be  
tyrik13 : 3/12/2019 2:39 pm : link
White, Sweat, Oliver or Gary
Jon  
ryanmkeane : 3/12/2019 3:10 pm : link
I think gettleman will have a higher grade on Gary than most. He’s just a big man that seems like can take over a game up front. We desperately need a guy like him and to establish an identity on D where we don’t get our shit pushed in like we have been the past few years.

Sweat looks like a freak athlete and could be a nice sack guy, but he might get pushed around.
Sweat  
JonC : 3/12/2019 3:16 pm : link
Thing with him is his film is good, but he doesn't leap off the screen at me. The freak testing is fun to watch, but then the question why it doesn't show up on the football field. He does do some nice work with backside pursuit and covering a lot of ground, but not seeing a level of physicality I'd prefer. Many athletes with his body type can't deal the same with the contact at the NFL level, eg, Leonard Floyd. I've seen it a hundred times in 30+ seasons.

Lots of questions to answer.
The way things are shaking out, vis a vis  
BlueLou'sBack : 3/12/2019 3:27 pm : link
Foles to the Jags
AB to the Raiders
Flacco to the Broncos


I just don't see 2 QBs being gone by 6, much less Haskins specifically selected by the Raiders. They traded Mack on now you think they pass on Allen?

I would think one doesn't trade and pay AB at his age to pair with a rookie QB, and think they are going with Carr unless Lock slips down to them in the late 1st.

IE I don't see them grabbing Haskins, not at all.

But playing your game I suppose Oliver.
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