Reconsidering the Vernon-Ziegler trade

we will add more good players.....

Find the 'Jamon Brown' of RTs and they'll still be better for it.

Should read “Should Gettleman simply have cut Vernon”

from inside out. He had nowhere to step up to. Neither does Saquon, for that matter.

Cutting the player does not erase the cap hit. We got hit with $8 million in dead money by trading him, but we would have done so too but cutting him.

at center than I am RT

He is that good. Vernon while a decent player didn't play enough and when he did he didn't perform to the value of his contract.

Adding Ziegler was a great move. We needed to be stronger up the middle. Eli's biggest weakness is the up the middle rush. Also, the trade gave us $1.5M in savings and does not hurt us when it comes to comp picks next year. Look at what the Pats and Iggs do with comp picks. We should net a 3rd for Collins and others we lose, like Brown. Good trade, good move.

Dusty Ziegler is back?

...that will nicely upgrade the RT position for us. When the wheel stops spinning I'm confident one of them will be a NY Giant.

the biggest deficiency the Giants OL had was allowing too much pressure right up the middle. It's the main reason our RB's were constantly hit in the backfield, and one of the main reasons for Eli's skittish play in recent years. If they fixed that, I can live with some pressure off the right side, if we don't solve that issue to satisfaction this off-season.

If we cut him (even with the $8 million dead money) but by trading him the Giants’ cap only decreased by $1.5 million.

with a solid player, at a position of need, who is durable.

I'm glad the Giants were able to get anything for Vernon, and getting a solid OG was awesome.

In comment 14327228 Greg from LI said:

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Dusty Ziegler is back?

Lol, gotta stop using my phone for posting.

In comment 14327239 sb from NYT Forum said:

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If we cut him (even with the $8 million dead money) but by trading him the Giants’ cap only decreased by $1.5 million.

That's because Zeitler's contract for 2019 pays him 10m.

While I agree even moving up to a league average RT would be a bigger improvement that moving up from Brown to Zeitler.

However, the fact is, Brown is a Free Agent, so technically we didn't have a RG unless you count Pulley...

So taken in that light, this is a huge upgrade.

There is still time to get a better RT. Maybe it will come in the draft. Need patience right now.

Zeitler will help the C and RT we do settle for.

my point is there was no great windfall from cutting Olivier. There was still $8 million in dead money. The $10 million cap hit from Zeitler is all salary. That can be easily re-structured because it isn't bonus money.

We would have probably spent the "cap savings" on Jamon Brown.

Thanks.

1. Brown is/was a FA. You can't speak of him like the Giants' can/will automatically re-sign him. Looks like Falcons signed him so I can assume there may have been a minor bidding war for me. More than he's worth I'm sure. Zeitler is getting paid what he's worth.

2. Which brings me to my 2nd point. Zeitler has no guarantees on the remainder of his contract now which makes him a prime candidate for restructure. I think it was mentioned that the Giants could save another $5 or $6 Million this year by restructuring his contract.

3. As Eric mentioned, you numbers off by quite a bit. I can't see now because the sites have been updated with contract changes but I seem to remember Vernon being cheaper for the Giants to trade away then to outright cut. I could be remembering incorrectly though.

4. It was close to a player for player trade. Giants' actually saved money in the process though. Signing a RT alone would have cost a lot more and they would still have to replace RG.

CHILL OUT

to free cap space. That is another plus of the trade.

Chad Wheeler could improve with a full year at RT. He was a LT up until he got to the Giants and he's still only 25. People speak as though we have nobody to put on the field at a number of positions. We do have a roster full of guys under contract who will be competing for jobs this summer. Players are trying to improve their techniques, get stronger, more well conditioned, and better accustomed to the speed & concepts of the NFL game. Just the fact that our team will be in their 2nd year with the new systems they learned last year, couple with the fact that our coaches know the players on the roster better says to me that we will be a better team this year. With the right additions we can compete for a title this year, IMHO.

Q the draft.

Next conversation... hup.

Good point.

Dos tresavos of Eric's areas for improvement in Wheelers game had to do with heft and power.

Those can be improved on.

Get the man a steak or two.

Does it preclude maybe draft in one?

No. But I expect DLs of various types and LBs as priority.

DraftING....not draft in one.

No.

Getting Zeitler at 10 million a year is a great deal for the Giants.

In comment 14327369 GeorgeAdams33 said:

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Chad Wheeler could improve with a full year at RT. He was a LT up until he got to the Giants and he's still only 25. People speak as though we have nobody to put on the field at a number of positions. We do have a roster full of guys under contract who will be competing for jobs this summer. Players are trying to improve their techniques, get stronger, more well conditioned, and better accustomed to the speed & concepts of the NFL game. Just the fact that our team will be in their 2nd year with the new systems they learned last year, couple with the fact that our coaches know the players on the roster better says to me that we will be a better team this year. With the right additions we can compete for a title this year, IMHO.

The problem I have with Wheeler, as it pertains to the scheme the Giants run, is he is small for an OT. We're not running a finesse OL. Look at our Guards. We want to beat people down. Wheeler can improve sure, but scheme fit we should want a big nasty RT like a Runyon or McKenzie type. Anyone notice Cody Ford in this draft BTW?

In comment 14327390 Jay on the Island said:

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Getting Zeitler at 10 million a year is a great deal for the Giants.

this x100. Zeitler is 1 of the better players at his position, hasn't missed a game in over 4 years, and can be cut without any dead money. At age 29 he could easily give us 2-3 years of solid production - you add players like that all day long however you can. Hopefully Daryl Williams is next up.

was the best thing Gettleman ever could've done for him

He has long arms, he is big in the thighs and he has the frame to add a lot of upper body muscle. He also has a bit of an attitude. I am not counting him out.

First, I think OG Hernandez will be much better this year as he now understands the game; stunts; what it takes and the system we employ.
Second, we have to trust the coaches and believe OC Hilapio comes back healthy & strong. He won't be a probowl player but he should be ok. And if Pulley beats him out, well, is that a bad thing since Hilapio can play all 3 interior positions as well?
Third, yes we need a RT but I don't want to give a top RT huge money with this team. We aren't going to be that competitive in 2019 due to a lack of defensive talent.
We need a superb draft; good health; and the development of youth to step up.
My prayer is we draft a stud defender #6 who starts and stuffs both the pass and the run. In the 2nd round, we draft an OL, hopefully a RT and he is ready to start game 1 as well. Or maybe Wheeler's game improves to the point where you can at least live with him.

This offense has a real shot to be very, very good even with Eli at QB. Protect Eli; run the ball well; and, with WR Beckham and Coleman you have the deep speed to keep defenders honest when needed. And yes, I believe Coleman will be our #2 wideout in this, his breakout year. God willing!

you guys haven't watched this guy play. he's opening holes almost by himself.

the reason we haven't had a line in so long is because we never took the no brainer OL available before the 5th round.

Williams was taken in the 4th. 3 year starter at oklahoma. massive. guys like zeitler who are projected day two guys(zeitler went late first) aren't around anymore in the 5th 6th 7th... I swear its like Reese just wanted to look like the smartest guy in the room by plucking "sleepers"