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Keaton028 : 3/12/2019 8:57 pm
Gotta give you credit for having some foresight and sticking to your opinions despite being criticized at times. I didn’t like this trade, but it seems DG’s vision is sort of aligning with yours. With that said, I’m curious if your opinion of DG is changing a bit, or if you still think he is a disaster? And what did you make of the return? I hate it, but I admit it’s partly due to shock.
In Go Terps  
DavidinBMNY : 3/12/2019 9:05 pm : link
We trust!
GT hated Odell.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/12/2019 9:06 pm : link
So I'm sure he likes it.
He’s too busy stroking it to reply right now.  
Hsilwek92 : 3/12/2019 9:06 pm : link
...
I was just curious  
Keaton028 : 3/12/2019 9:08 pm : link
because he used to put out the impression Gettleman was directionless. Just wondering if his opinion on that had changed.
Good riddance  
AnnapolisMike : 3/12/2019 9:10 pm : link
OBJ was a talented headcase. You don't build a team around a WR. The Giants have done nothing in the time OBJ has been here and they would have done nothing in the few remaining years he has left.
I think the one thing we can conclude  
Mike from Ohio : 3/12/2019 9:11 pm : link
GT and Mara/Gettleman see eye to eye on much more than GT is probably comfortable with. This is the plan GT has been advocating.
It's an outstanding trade...  
bw in dc : 3/12/2019 9:12 pm : link
for Jints Central.

I haven't liked Gettleman since he arrived but this is a homerun.

Another first, a young, play-making safety and a solid third to replace a player who is may never regain his insanely good form and he's very unpredictable.
RE: GT hated Odell.  
mrvax : 3/12/2019 9:13 pm : link
In comment 14328574 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
So I'm sure he likes it.


I believe Terps would say he is 'somewhat' happy now with DG.
.  
Go Terps : 3/12/2019 9:15 pm : link
Gettleman's having a good offseason, with today being the best move. But today is probably about Mara. Good for him.

The consternation over any player that's been part of these last few years is strange. The teams done nothing but lose with guys like Beckham and Collins, but now that they're gone the Giants are in trouble?

The Giants got better today. Beckham's legacy here is losing and off field bullshit. Let somebody else pay for that.
bw  
bc4life : 3/12/2019 9:16 pm : link
I seriously doubt the defensive coordinators in the NFC East share your opinion.

Coming off a broken leg and lost some games due to a cheap shot leg whip. Sometimes it takes a hwile to regain full form. Still one of the better reecivers in the league.

They're going to stack the box and no Giant's wr has consistently shown that he requires double coverage.

We gave a a HOF caliber player for 17th pick. Braonws are a lot better, Giants a lot worse. Just wait and se until Barkley ahs to sit out a game, no one one this team scares opposing defenses.
Terps  
bc4life : 3/12/2019 9:17 pm : link
You're just happy things went your way. Now maybe the cryassing will stop...but it won't.
RE: bw  
bw in dc : 3/12/2019 9:19 pm : link
In comment 14328720 bc4life said:
Quote:
I seriously doubt the defensive coordinators in the NFC East share your opinion.

Coming off a broken leg and lost some games due to a cheap shot leg whip. Sometimes it takes a hwile to regain full form. Still one of the better reecivers in the league.

They're going to stack the box and no Giant's wr has consistently shown that he requires double coverage.

We gave a a HOF caliber player for 17th pick. Braonws are a lot better, Giants a lot worse. Just wait and se until Barkley ahs to sit out a game, no one one this team scares opposing defenses.


You're looking at this all wrong. This is a long play by Gettleman. It's not about this year at all. It's about re-loading with youth, getting more cap space, and changing the culture.

Now two enormous pieces remain - jettison Eli and executing on these first round picks.
RE: .  
DavidinBMNY : 3/12/2019 9:20 pm : link
In comment 14328704 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Gettleman's having a good offseason, with today being the best move. But today is probably about Mara. Good for him.

The consternation over any player that's been part of these last few years is strange. The teams done nothing but lose with guys like Beckham and Collins, but now that they're gone the Giants are in trouble?

The Giants got better today. Beckham's legacy here is losing and off field bullshit. Let somebody else pay for that.
En Fuego!
RE: .  
arcarsenal : 3/12/2019 9:21 pm : link
In comment 14328704 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Gettleman's having a good offseason, with today being the best move. But today is probably about Mara. Good for him.

The consternation over any player that's been part of these last few years is strange. The teams done nothing but lose with guys like Beckham and Collins, but now that they're gone the Giants are in trouble?

The Giants got better today. Beckham's legacy here is losing and off field bullshit. Let somebody else pay for that.


But this is why I kept saying we can't fire the guy after 1 year.

He obviously does have some sort of plan - I think that'll largely be determined by what we do with the QB position - but, for better or worse, there's no point in hiring a new GM if we won't allot him the time to carry out his vision for the team going forward.

Is what he's doing going to fix the team?

I have no idea. But he's making some pretty major changes here. Isn't this what most people wanted? The Giants have been a bag of shit lately. It needed to be cleaned out and redone.

This needed more than one offseason. Last offseason, not so hot in terms of FA signings and how they approached the season.

But now things are starting to make a little more sense. They have to cut Eli, though. Otherwise that part is going to lose me a bit.

I thought I'd be more pissed off about this, but I don't really think I'm all that mad. More relieved that the daily nonsense over "will he, won't he" is finally done.
NFL Network  
montanagiant : 3/12/2019 9:21 pm : link
Said OBJ went and asked for more money after the AB deal. If this is true Giants had no choice and actually got excellent value for a player that was going to be a nightmare.
arc  
Go Terps : 3/12/2019 9:22 pm : link
Like a moth to a flame...
Terps  
Keaton028 : 3/12/2019 9:22 pm : link
How do you feel about the return?
that's one side of it  
bc4life : 3/12/2019 9:23 pm : link
and because he asks for money - youre' compelled to give it to him?
RE: Terps  
Go Terps : 3/12/2019 9:24 pm : link
In comment 14328812 Keaton028 said:
Quote:
How do you feel about the return?


I feel good about it. If have been fine with Cleveland's first rounder alone. Most people here were never realistic about what Beckham actually is.
Great move by Gettleman  
Lambuth_Special : 3/12/2019 9:25 pm : link
He's earned his tank commander helmet.

This 76ers fan approves.
RE: that's one side of it  
montanagiant : 3/12/2019 9:27 pm : link
In comment 14328822 bc4life said:
Quote:
and because he asks for money - youre' compelled to give it to him?

You think he would have just said "ok, no problem, can't fault me for asking" when they said no?
RE: .  
WillVAB : 3/12/2019 9:27 pm : link
In comment 14328704 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Gettleman's having a good offseason, with today being the best move. But today is probably about Mara. Good for him.

The consternation over any player that's been part of these last few years is strange. The teams done nothing but lose with guys like Beckham and Collins, but now that they're gone the Giants are in trouble?

The Giants got better today. Beckham's legacy here is losing and off field bullshit. Let somebody else pay for that.


This makes your consternation over Gettleman strange. I hope you turn a new leaf and become his biggest cheerleader bc no other GM would pull the moves he has — most you’ve been a big proponent of.
bw  
bc4life : 3/12/2019 9:27 pm : link
I respectfully disagree. In my opinion, you have a two headed monster on offense. Just needed to shore up rigt tackle spot and get some pass rushers.

Browns got a lot better with this trade. I see the Giants getting a lot worse. You're going to change QBs within a year or two and you took away a primary weapon. Time will tell.

Barkley gets hurt - offense is very average. But maybe they'll be competitive in 4-5 years.
Arc I do agree  
Keaton028 : 3/12/2019 9:28 pm : link
no point in Eli being here anymore.
RE: RE: Terps  
Stan in LA : 3/12/2019 9:29 pm : link
In comment 14328847 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14328812 Keaton028 said:


Quote:


How do you feel about the return?



I feel good about it. If have been fine with Cleveland's first rounder alone. Most people here were never realistic about what Beckham actually is.


Exactly. In essence, it's 2 1st's and a 3rd. Not bad.
Will  
Go Terps : 3/12/2019 9:31 pm : link
Gettleman's first year was a disaster. Don't forget he just signed this clown to the richest WR deal in history. That's a huge fuck up, to go along with several others.

But I've been right there giving him credit for what he's done right thus far this offseason.

There is still more to go. Let's see what he does. Huge step in the right direction today.
Terps  
Keaton028 : 3/12/2019 9:34 pm : link
Say the course is set as how you envision it. How long do you see it taking before the Giants can compete? Past Barkley's peak?
RE: Will  
AnnapolisMike : 3/12/2019 9:39 pm : link
In comment 14328920 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Gettleman's first year was a disaster. Don't forget he just signed this clown to the richest WR deal in history. That's a huge fuck up, to go along with several others.

But I've been right there giving him credit for what he's done right thus far this offseason.

There is still more to go. Let's see what he does. Huge step in the right direction today.


He had to sign him last year. what really was the alternative? He would not have been able to trade him and get the value he got today
RE: Terps  
Go Terps : 3/12/2019 9:40 pm : link
In comment 14328986 Keaton028 said:
Quote:
Say the course is set as how you envision it. How long do you see it taking before the Giants can compete? Past Barkley's peak?


The problem still is twofold:

1. QB uncertainty
2. Shurmur has to prove he's something other than a terrible game day coach

If Shurmur were a good coach is say we could compete for a wildcard this year. But as things stand I'm not sure we compete until he turns it around or is replaced.
RE: Will  
WillVAB : 3/12/2019 9:49 pm : link
In comment 14328920 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Gettleman's first year was a disaster. Don't forget he just signed this clown to the richest WR deal in history. That's a huge fuck up, to go along with several others.

But I've been right there giving him credit for what he's done right thus far this offseason.

There is still more to go. Let's see what he does. Huge step in the right direction today.


He’s been methodically rebuilding this team in the mold of a championship caliber team since day 1. We aren’t even officially into FA in year 2 and he’s cleaned house. The cap looks great moving forward. He’s stayed true to his team building philosophy.

If you’re being honest with yourself there isn’t much you can dislike with what he’s done. Louis Riddick wouldn’t have the balls to do this.
Well I do give you credit.  
Keaton028 : 3/12/2019 9:49 pm : link
You were flamed for your views and it seems the Giants are beginning to see things as you do. I didn't like the idea of Beckham being traded, but I'm , like Arc, also not gonna form a knee-jerk reaction. If they release Manning it will make sense even more so. Kudos to you, and I hope the Giants can rebuild quickly.
I have  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/12/2019 9:51 pm : link
no issue with the the argument bw and Go Terps are making.

But how the heck couldn't we get more in return? At least a #2.
Yeah the return is a huge bummer.  
Keaton028 : 3/12/2019 9:54 pm : link
But maybe we are over-valuing OBJ? I don't know. Trying to stay positive.
RE: I have  
Go Terps : 3/12/2019 9:55 pm : link
In comment 14329199 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
no issue with the the argument bw and Go Terps are making.

But how the heck couldn't we get more in return? At least a #2.


Put yourself in the shoes of a Browns fan... You just traded a couple picks and a young safety for the most expensive WR in the league who is both a malcontent and had 1300 yards receiving total the last two seasons due to injury.

I'm surprised we got this much.
RE: arc  
Hsilwek92 : 3/12/2019 9:56 pm : link
In comment 14328811 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Like a moth to a flame...


And the same can be said for you and any OBJ thread. You’re pathetic.
The Browns I know are rejoicing.  
Keaton028 : 3/12/2019 9:58 pm : link
But we are all just fans, and none of us know the ramifications of this move.

They DID just take 2 of our 3 most expensive players.
RE: RE: I have  
WillVAB : 3/12/2019 10:00 pm : link
In comment 14329241 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 14329199 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


no issue with the the argument bw and Go Terps are making.

But how the heck couldn't we get more in return? At least a #2.



Put yourself in the shoes of a Browns fan... You just traded a couple picks and a young safety for the most expensive WR in the league who is both a malcontent and had 1300 yards receiving total the last two seasons due to injury.

I'm surprised we got this much.


And is already asking for more money.
RE: RE: arc  
arcarsenal : 3/12/2019 10:01 pm : link
In comment 14329254 Hsilwek92 said:
Quote:
In comment 14328811 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Like a moth to a flame...



And the same can be said for you and any OBJ thread. You’re pathetic.


You can't blame him - he is a hard time with self-awareness and a very inflated view of himself.

Now he's a little lost because he's spent the last few months telling us every day that Dave Gettleman has no idea what he's doing and should have been fired last year - has no plan, isn't the right guy for this... every day we had to read through the same whiny posts about how we already know the Giants are a hopeless 5-6 win team again next year (nevermind the draft hasn't even happened yet..)

But now Gettleman is doing things he likes... now what?!
RE: I have  
bw in dc : 3/12/2019 10:03 pm : link
In comment 14329199 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
no issue with the the argument bw and Go Terps are making.

But how the heck couldn't we get more in return? At least a #2.


What makes you think there was more to be had? I'm elated by the compensation. Considering we haven't seen the old OBJ yet - and who knows if we ever will - we may have pulled off a coup here.

Like I said on another thread, there is the real market for players and there is the BBI market for players. And BBI tends to drastically inflate the value of our own. It get it that's it's human nature, but always take what BBI values and multiply is by 80%.

But the key now is Gettleman executing on the draft picks. That's where the rubber meets the road. There is a real chance to make a bigger splash.

Here's by biggest fear though - he bundled the #6 and the #17 to move up for Haskins. That would be a disaster. And very likely offset all of this good news tonight.
Arc, I gotta say  
Keaton028 : 3/12/2019 10:04 pm : link
you and Terps both have different viewpoints, but I respect you both. You both make good points, and are consistant. You two getting personal with each other takes away from the actually interesting debates you have.
Well DG has the Guts....  
Torrag : 3/12/2019 10:14 pm : link
...let's all hope the Glory is incoming.
RE: RE: I have  
WillVAB : 3/12/2019 10:21 pm : link
In comment 14329314 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 14329199 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


no issue with the the argument bw and Go Terps are making.

But how the heck couldn't we get more in return? At least a #2.



What makes you think there was more to be had? I'm elated by the compensation. Considering we haven't seen the old OBJ yet - and who knows if we ever will - we may have pulled off a coup here.

Like I said on another thread, there is the real market for players and there is the BBI market for players. And BBI tends to drastically inflate the value of our own. It get it that's it's human nature, but always take what BBI values and multiply is by 80%.

But the key now is Gettleman executing on the draft picks. That's where the rubber meets the road. There is a real chance to make a bigger splash.

Here's by biggest fear though - he bundled the #6 and the #17 to move up for Haskins. That would be a disaster. And very likely offset all of this good news tonight.


That’s the only thing I’m afraid of.
RE: I have  
.McL. : 3/12/2019 10:26 pm : link
In comment 14329199 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
no issue with the the argument bw and Go Terps are making.

But how the heck couldn't we get more in return? At least a #2.

I agree, I have no problem trading him....
I would have wanted a 1st next year, which is generally considered the equivalent of a #2 this year.
I would even send them a 4th with Beckham to get #17, and next years #1... But its next year's #1 I want!
.  
arcarsenal : 3/12/2019 10:26 pm : link
I don't care about being wrong - every person on this board is going to be wrong when they stick their head out as much as I do. (Too much)

I didn't think they'd move Beckham unless they were really blown away because I didn't think they actually wanted to move him.

JonC said several times that it was basically either the "Godfather" offer, or OBJ was staying in NY. Glazer's recent report somewhat seemed to corroborate that.

The smoke was undeniable after a while, which was giving me pause. Ultimately, I was fine with trading him - but I really wanted the 2nd pick from SF + a 2nd rounder in a future year (ideally next) or maybe some combination of other stuff.

First reaction was that the return was a little less than I was hoping for, but in the end, I've warmed up to it and am glad all the noise and arguing about whether or not he should be traded is done. He's been traded. We can't control it, we can move forward now.

The QB part of this equation largely determines how I'll really feel about it when the smoke clears.

But, down the road, we'll probably look back on it and realize it was the right thing to do. I'm guessing things probably just weren't going to get any better here with him and the relationship between he and the owners/front office had deteriorated to a point where we just had to turn the page.

This isn't how I wanted them to move him - if they were going to do it, there were better times to do it than this. But I have a feeling if we had waited much longer, we could have said the same thing then... and might have regretted not taking a package like this while we could get it.

It is what it is. I'm not quitting on the season or any of that. Just looking forward to whatever the next move is and how they'll handle Eli with his bonus due in a few days.
From a purely analytics point of view, it was the right thing to do  
.McL. : 3/13/2019 1:41 am : link
He took up too much of the cap...
He cost over $17,000 per yard gained last year.
$233,000 per catch.
$3,000,000 per TD... (not including throws)

Way too much cost for the production.

I was hoping for a better return, but once I understood that he is going to play hardball about getting more money, I understand why nobody was willing to go higher.

So, I'll take it and move on. It will hurt the team in the short term, but this is a rebuild, and we should not be thinking in the short term. Losing in 2019 isn't so bad, it sets us up for a good shot at one the better QBs in 2020.
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