Is there even one poster on this board who honestly believes that if Gettleman had told the Brown's he was walking away from the deal if the Browns didn't include their higher 3rd round pick (#80) instead of their lower 3rd round pick (#95) the Browns would not have caved?
They obviously wanted OBJ badly....were they really going to walk away from this deal over the difference between picks 80 and 95? Remember, the Giants had all or nearly all the leverage here. They absolutely did not have to trade OBJ, and certainly didn't have to trade him to the Browns.
I realize it's a relatively small point, but I think it's a very telling one. If he couldn't even get Cleveland to make this small concession can we have any confidence that he couldn't have gotten an even better deal from another team?
sure but he could have walked...we didnt HAVE to trade obj
You didn't answer my question: at the end of the negotiations DG said to Dorsey, no deal unless you include pick #80 instead of #95. You honestly think there is any chance Dorsey walks away over the difference between those picks?
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Know what the negotiations were at all, you cant say it would have been so easy. For all we know maybe the Browns didnt want to originally give up Peppers and they dropped from a 2nd to the late 3rd in negotations. Until someone involved in the trade talks admits to what happened we dont have enough information to say anything conclusively like that at all, its not fair and its narrow-minded.
You didn't answer my question: at the end of the negotiations DG said to Dorsey, no deal unless you include pick #80 instead of #95. You honestly think there is any chance Dorsey walks away over the difference between those picks?
I agree completely. All he has to say is If I hang up this phone, the price increases to a 1st, 2nd, and Peppers, so either give me the higher 3rd or deal with the price increase. Somehow, DSG was so desperate to deal OBJ that he just said to heck with it and caved himself. It's incredibly stupid.
Maybe the 2nd 3rd was where Dorsey drew a line and would not budge.
All guesswork, all speculation from which you cannot draw a conclusion.
2 elite talents that are basically only comparable to each other, disgruntled, and not quiet about it. Not only did we see a trade value of 3 & 5 which helps set the current market, but we also saw the very possible near future for OBJ should they delay the move. If that was the case, it's not so high leverage and we needed to move quickly
It's possible they started at 2 1sts like many were saying, and CLE countered with 1 and an equivalent asset, a 1st only 2 years out that's a solid player. Then the 3rd was the add in. It's also possible he asked and they said no...if it was 'so easy' to make it happen it was just as easy for CLE to refuse and NYG to accept anyway. The 'walk out' strategy in negotiation isn't a guaranteed cave, it's a risk, so I don't buy the idea DG could refuse and it 100% works in his favor
Perhaps it would be a good idea to stop speaking is such an authoritative manner about things like trades and what is happening behind the scenes.
Maybe it s possible the Giants were just thrilled to get rid of an oft injured distraction and figured they could probably be at least 8-24 without him.
The context we have makes it seem like 15 spots were to small for either side to worry about. Whether that's from a desire to get rid of a disgruntled player, based on the directly related AB situation, or even just know the starting point of the negotiation, we don't know
So with that IMO it's tough to judge one bullet point as good or bad, much less as telling in terms of DG's negotiation skills, moreso since it was the smallest asset in the transaction
No one can answer that because we dont know what happened during the negotiations. Also, teams prove over and over again that they value draft picks and players much differently than fans do.
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An injury pron, extremely talented wr at 19 million per has both value and issues.....to be honest
I am not sure, I would have made that trade, if i was cleveland. Committing to 70 million,losing 2 valuable draft picks....and i must not hold jabril peppers, my #1 pick in 2017, in high regard.
I dont normally agree with you but I do here. His trades last year were underwhelming, he lets Collins walk for a song, and then in the most important trade of his NYG career (and what hell be remembered for) he gets railroaded and gets back a shit haul for Beckham. Stellar GMing.
Most players dont have anything good to say about this guy. After how hes performed here in his brief tenure, I can see why.
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Most players dont have anything good to say about this guy. After how hes performed here in his brief tenure, I can see why.
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Why would you care what the players say, especially ones cut by the same GM? The GM is not there to be loved by the players.
Coach and coaches, yeah, maybe. GM is the asshole money guy. It is not his job to be loved by the players.
sure but he could have walked...we didnt HAVE to trade obj
Yes we did.. ownership did now want him here anymore.
Agree, not only is the thread stupid but a couple of comments in this thread and the others from people who think the law of supply and demand somehow does not apply to OBJ because ... well they love him and think he is "awesome"
Actually you are slightly wrong about that....we do have one data point. I do know that at one point during the talks the Brown were willing to trade the Peppers along with the 17th and 95th picks in the draft for OBJ. We don't know how they got there, but that's not nearly as important as the fact that they were willing to do that trade on those terms at the end of the deal.
That being said, depsite a few whiffs - I like most of what Gettleman has done. Think his draft was very underappreciated by some. Got two competent safeties. OLine a right tackle away from being competent. picked up a couple good young corners.
let some other players move on.
This thread is bizarre.
Honestly, I usually wear blue colored glasses, today I feel a little pissed off.
Actually I negotiate for a living, so I understand quite a bit about the psychology behind negotiations, which is why this relatively small detail bothers me so much. But your elegant response shows you to be quite the erudite on negotiations, so I'll have to defer to your expertise here.
This thread is bizarre.
No, that doesn't mean anything.
How do you know the Browns wanted OBJ so badly that they would be willing to over pay for him?
You also have no idea what the other conversations were like with other teams (regarding an OBJ trade) over the past year. This could have been the best deal that we were offered by anyone.
Mara also could have told Gettleman that there is no way we are going into this season with OBJ on the roster.. find a way to get a deal done.
You have no idea.
How do you know the Browns wanted OBJ so badly that they would be willing to over pay for him?
You also have no idea what the other conversations were like with other teams (regarding an OBJ trade) over the past year. This could have been the best deal that we were offered by anyone.
Mara also could have told Gettleman that there is no way we are going into this season with OBJ on the roster.. find a way to get a deal done.
You have no idea.
I don't know anything about the Browns with 100% certainty. But I'm pretty confident they wanted a superstar player in his prime at a position of need for them badly enough that they would't scuttle the deal over the difference between the 80th and 95th picks.
I understand the psychology of negotiations, that when you get close to something you want badly you're almost always never willing to walk about over a small difference in price.
Imagine a dream house that you had valued at $900,000. There are no other comparable houses available to you. You offer $900,000. seller says there bottom line is $920,000. Assuming you can afford that amount, almost nobody would walk away in those circumstances over an extra $20,000. It's just basic human psychology.
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and Gettleman got their later 3rd instead. Does that mean hes an awesome negotiator now?
This thread is bizarre.
No, that doesn't mean anything.
And neither does this thread. Take any negotiation in sports and just ask the same question you are, because why not?
Why wouldnt Pitt tell Oakland to fuck off if they didnt get a 3 and 4 instead of a 3 and 5?
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I don't know anything about the Browns with 100% certainty. But I'm pretty confident they wanted a superstar player in his prime at a position of need for them badly enough that they would't scuttle the deal over the difference between the 80th and 95th picks.
You have no idea if this is the case. This is all conjecture.
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Know what the negotiations were at all, you cant say it would have been so easy. For all we know maybe the Browns didnt want to originally give up Peppers and they dropped from a 2nd to the late 3rd in negotations. Until someone involved in the trade talks admits to what happened we dont have enough information to say anything conclusively like that at all, its not fair and its narrow-minded.
You didn't answer my question: at the end of the negotiations DG said to Dorsey, no deal unless you include pick #80 instead of #95. You honestly think there is any chance Dorsey walks away over the difference between those picks?
Have you ever negotiated anything? There comes a point where things end up and you either take the deal or blow it up. It happens literally almost every time a negotiation is hard fought.
Tesla,
what conclusion do you draw from this?
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/13/report-beckham-trade-leads-to-revision-of-vernon-zeitler-trade-terms/
Obviously this is due to the OBJ trade so again, as many are saying it's not done in a vacuum. If you have a gripe it should start WAY before the 3rd round pick
While I didn't want to trade him, if I were in NYG's position I'd probably be asking for a 2 vs a 3. And a refusal would not likely be a deal breaker (especially if I just wanted him gone). So without the context it's a bit reactive to kill DG over 15 spots in the 3rd
There. Your question is answered. You can stop asking.
There. Your question is answered. You can stop asking.
LOL, thank you for at least answering the question. I don't think you really believe that, but thanks anyway.
Obviously this is due to the OBJ trade so again, as many are saying it's not done in a vacuum. If you have a gripe it should start WAY before the 3rd round pick
While I didn't want to trade him, if I were in NYG's position I'd probably be asking for a 2 vs a 3. And a refusal would not likely be a deal breaker (especially if I just wanted him gone). So without the context it's a bit reactive to kill DG over 15 spots in the 3rd
Here here....