for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

A small point about Gettleman's negotiating abilities

Tesla : 3/13/2019 1:39 am
Is there even one poster on this board who honestly believes that if Gettleman had told the Brown's he was walking away from the deal if the Browns didn't include their higher 3rd round pick (#80) instead of their lower 3rd round pick (#95) the Browns would not have caved?

They obviously wanted OBJ badly....were they really going to walk away from this deal over the difference between picks 80 and 95? Remember, the Giants had all or nearly all the leverage here. They absolutely did not have to trade OBJ, and certainly didn't have to trade him to the Browns.

I realize it's a relatively small point, but I think it's a very telling one. If he couldn't even get Cleveland to make this small concession can we have any confidence that he couldn't have gotten an even better deal from another team?
100%  
BleedBlue : 3/13/2019 1:40 am : link
just got off the phone with a buddy and i said same thing. he easily could have gotten 80 over 95. fucking ridiculous. they prob woukd have done a 1, 2 and peppers. obj is a dynamic game chaning WR. we will be lucky to draft a gaming changing player in any of those picks
We dont  
darren in pdx : 3/13/2019 1:45 am : link
Know what the negotiations were at all, you cant say it would have been so easy. For all we know maybe the Browns didnt want to originally give up Peppers and they dropped from a 2nd to the late 3rd in negotations. Until someone involved in the trade talks admits to what happened we dont have enough information to say anything conclusively like that at all, its not fair and its narrow-minded.
The dude sucks and gets owned on every trade  
SHO'NUFF : 3/13/2019 1:46 am : link
I say he could've had next year's 2nd round pick from the Browns.
RE: We dont  
BleedBlue : 3/13/2019 1:47 am : link
In comment 14330474 darren in pdx said:
Quote:
Know what the negotiations were at all, you cant say it would have been so easy. For all we know maybe the Browns didnt want to originally give up Peppers and they dropped from a 2nd to the late 3rd in negotations. Until someone involved in the trade talks admits to what happened we dont have enough information to say anything conclusively like that at all, its not fair and its narrow-minded.


sure but he could have walked...we didnt HAVE to trade obj
RE: We dont  
Tesla : 3/13/2019 1:51 am : link
In comment 14330474 darren in pdx said:
Quote:
Know what the negotiations were at all, you cant say it would have been so easy. For all we know maybe the Browns didnt want to originally give up Peppers and they dropped from a 2nd to the late 3rd in negotations. Until someone involved in the trade talks admits to what happened we dont have enough information to say anything conclusively like that at all, its not fair and its narrow-minded.


You didn't answer my question: at the end of the negotiations DG said to Dorsey, no deal unless you include pick #80 instead of #95. You honestly think there is any chance Dorsey walks away over the difference between those picks?
RE: RE: We dont  
Giants38 : 3/13/2019 1:55 am : link
In comment 14330484 Tesla said:
Quote:
In comment 14330474 darren in pdx said:


Quote:


Know what the negotiations were at all, you cant say it would have been so easy. For all we know maybe the Browns didnt want to originally give up Peppers and they dropped from a 2nd to the late 3rd in negotations. Until someone involved in the trade talks admits to what happened we dont have enough information to say anything conclusively like that at all, its not fair and its narrow-minded.



You didn't answer my question: at the end of the negotiations DG said to Dorsey, no deal unless you include pick #80 instead of #95. You honestly think there is any chance Dorsey walks away over the difference between those picks?


I agree completely. All he has to say is If I hang up this phone, the price increases to a 1st, 2nd, and Peppers, so either give me the higher 3rd or deal with the price increase. Somehow, DSG was so desperate to deal OBJ that he just said to heck with it and caved himself. It's incredibly stupid.
I dont think you can  
Gregorio : 3/13/2019 2:03 am : link
Draw any conclusions on DGs negotiating skill, without having been inside the negotiations. Maybe Dorsey offered a 4th or a 5th, and DG negotiated for the 3rd, and they agreed on that.

Maybe the 2nd 3rd was where Dorsey drew a line and would not budge.

All guesswork, all speculation from which you cannot draw a conclusion.
I dont think that's accurate, for my part  
ChaChing : 3/13/2019 2:05 am : link
For what we're hearing (no doubt continued rumors fwiw), the Antonio Brown situation heavily weighed on this decision

2 elite talents that are basically only comparable to each other, disgruntled, and not quiet about it. Not only did we see a trade value of 3 & 5 which helps set the current market, but we also saw the very possible near future for OBJ should they delay the move. If that was the case, it's not so high leverage and we needed to move quickly

It's possible they started at 2 1sts like many were saying, and CLE countered with 1 and an equivalent asset, a 1st only 2 years out that's a solid player. Then the 3rd was the add in. It's also possible he asked and they said no...if it was 'so easy' to make it happen it was just as easy for CLE to refuse and NYG to accept anyway. The 'walk out' strategy in negotiation isn't a guaranteed cave, it's a risk, so I don't buy the idea DG could refuse and it 100% works in his favor
maybe, just maybe  
Bill in UT : 3/13/2019 2:06 am : link
Dorsey offered a 5th and Gettleman talked him down to the 3rd
Some of you guys spoke with great  
joeinpa : 3/13/2019 2:12 am : link
Authority about how uninformed those that sugggested Beckham might be, traded prior to him actually being traded

Perhaps it would be a good idea to stop speaking is such an authoritative manner about things like trades and what is happening behind the scenes.

Maybe it s possible the Giants were just thrilled to get rid of an oft injured distraction and figured they could probably be at least 8-24 without him.
Again, nobody is answering my actual question....  
Tesla : 3/13/2019 2:17 am : link
Would be the Browns have been willing to walking away from the chance to obtain OBJ for the difference between the 80th and 95th picks in the draft?

That's because out of context, the answer you're looking for  
ChaChing : 3/13/2019 2:31 am : link
"no" makes little sense from that vacuum

The context we have makes it seem like 15 spots were to small for either side to worry about. Whether that's from a desire to get rid of a disgruntled player, based on the directly related AB situation, or even just know the starting point of the negotiation, we don't know

So with that IMO it's tough to judge one bullet point as good or bad, much less as telling in terms of DG's negotiation skills, moreso since it was the smallest asset in the transaction
RE: Again, nobody is answering my actual question....  
darren in pdx : 3/13/2019 4:00 am : link
In comment 14330497 Tesla said:
Quote:
Would be the Browns have been willing to walking away from the chance to obtain OBJ for the difference between the 80th and 95th picks in the draft?


No one can answer that because we dont know what happened during the negotiations. Also, teams prove over and over again that they value draft picks and players much differently than fans do.
DAngelo Williams weighs in on DG  
jeff57 : 3/13/2019 4:33 am : link
.
Link - ( New Window )
Who knows?  
George from PA : 3/13/2019 5:03 am : link
I would have liked some 2020 picks, as well.

An injury pron, extremely talented wr at 19 million per has both value and issues.....to be honest

I am not sure, I would have made that trade, if i was cleveland. Committing to 70 million,losing 2 valuable draft picks....and i must not hold jabril peppers, my #1 pick in 2017, in high regard.
RE: The dude sucks and gets owned on every trade  
The_Boss : 3/13/2019 5:50 am : link
In comment 14330475 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
I say he could've had next year's 2nd round pick from the Browns.


I dont normally agree with you but I do here. His trades last year were underwhelming, he lets Collins walk for a song, and then in the most important trade of his NYG career (and what hell be remembered for) he gets railroaded and gets back a shit haul for Beckham. Stellar GMing.
RE: DAngelo Williams weighs in on DG  
The_Boss : 3/13/2019 5:51 am : link
In comment 14330532 jeff57 said:
Quote:
. Link - ( New Window )


Most players dont have anything good to say about this guy. After how hes performed here in his brief tenure, I can see why.

👎🏽
This is funny  
USAF NYG Fan : 3/13/2019 5:53 am : link
Everyone claiming to be the messiah of negotiations. So let's get this straight. If you think there is such a small margin between the 80th and 95th pick that Gettleman should have been able to negotiate for it then why do you care about such a small difference? Clearly, those few picks in between are important.
You guys are idiots  
Tuckrule : 3/13/2019 6:29 am : link
Sit at home playing Mr GM. Im sure half you morons cant get a discount from your cable company but your trying to figure out he inner workings of a monster negotiation. Brilliant people here
RE: RE: DAngelo Williams weighs in on DG  
section125 : 3/13/2019 6:37 am : link
In comment 14330556 The_Boss said:
Quote:
In comment 14330532 jeff57 said:


Quote:


. Link - ( New Window )



Most players dont have anything good to say about this guy. After how hes performed here in his brief tenure, I can see why.

👎🏽


Why would you care what the players say, especially ones cut by the same GM? The GM is not there to be loved by the players.

Coach and coaches, yeah, maybe. GM is the asshole money guy. It is not his job to be loved by the players.
This is a stupid thread  
Dave on the UWS : 3/13/2019 6:59 am : link
How does the OP know what was offered? He doesnt. As far as we know, the Browns offered a 4th and DG said he had to have a 3rd so they settled on the Browns later 3rd rd pick.
Since you werent in on the talks,  
Big Blue '56 : 3/13/2019 7:04 am : link
you have zero idea what went down between the GMs.
RE: RE: We dont  
EricJ : 3/13/2019 7:04 am : link
In comment 14330479 BleedBlue said:
Quote:


sure but he could have walked...we didnt HAVE to trade obj


Yes we did.. ownership did now want him here anymore.
RE: This is a stupid thread  
EricJ : 3/13/2019 7:06 am : link
In comment 14330626 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
How does the OP know what was offered?


Agree, not only is the thread stupid but a couple of comments in this thread and the others from people who think the law of supply and demand somehow does not apply to OBJ because ... well they love him and think he is "awesome"
Have you ever been in a management executive meeting  
Giantimistic : 3/13/2019 7:17 am : link
At a company behind closed doors and then hear all the rumors about what happened in the meeting or why decesions were made. Usually not even close to reality.
Im still not a fan of the trade  
Mike from Ohio : 3/13/2019 7:26 am : link
But I dont think there was a bunch more compensation that could have been had once the decision was made to trade him. The stuff some people on this board were posting to trade Beckham was fantasy stuff. Nobody was giving up #2 overall and a first next year. That is absurd.
RE: Since you werent in on the talks,  
Tesla : 3/13/2019 7:28 am : link
In comment 14330637 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
you have zero idea what went down between the GMs.


Actually you are slightly wrong about that....we do have one data point. I do know that at one point during the talks the Brown were willing to trade the Peppers along with the 17th and 95th picks in the draft for OBJ. We don't know how they got there, but that's not nearly as important as the fact that they were willing to do that trade on those terms at the end of the deal.
didn't like this trade  
bc4life : 3/13/2019 7:28 am : link
not saying it shouldn't have happened - don't know all the facts, but don't like the fact OBJ is gone.

That being said, depsite a few whiffs - I like most of what Gettleman has done. Think his draft was very underappreciated by some. Got two competent safeties. OLine a right tackle away from being competent. picked up a couple good young corners.

let some other players move on.
And what if a 4th was on the table  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2019 7:30 am : link
and Gettleman got their later 3rd instead. Does that mean hes an awesome negotiator now?

This thread is bizarre.
I liked DG very much until this trade  
Rjanyg : 3/13/2019 7:33 am : link
With all the dead money, I wouldnt have traded OBJ unless it was for a 2019 1st & 2nd, 2020 2nd and a player and I was thinking more about a trade with San Fran not Cleveland.

Honestly, I usually wear blue colored glasses, today I feel a little pissed off.
RE: You guys are idiots  
Tesla : 3/13/2019 7:34 am : link
In comment 14330588 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Sit at home playing Mr GM. Im sure half you morons cant get a discount from your cable company but your trying to figure out he inner workings of a monster negotiation. Brilliant people here


Actually I negotiate for a living, so I understand quite a bit about the psychology behind negotiations, which is why this relatively small detail bothers me so much. But your elegant response shows you to be quite the erudite on negotiations, so I'll have to defer to your expertise here.
RE: And what if a 4th was on the table  
Tesla : 3/13/2019 7:34 am : link
In comment 14330707 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and Gettleman got their later 3rd instead. Does that mean hes an awesome negotiator now?

This thread is bizarre.


No, that doesn't mean anything.
Tesla...  
EricJ : 3/13/2019 7:47 am : link
you have no idea WTF you are talking about. You really don't.

How do you know the Browns wanted OBJ so badly that they would be willing to over pay for him?

You also have no idea what the other conversations were like with other teams (regarding an OBJ trade) over the past year. This could have been the best deal that we were offered by anyone.

Mara also could have told Gettleman that there is no way we are going into this season with OBJ on the roster.. find a way to get a deal done.

You have no idea.
RE: Tesla...  
Tesla : 3/13/2019 7:55 am : link
In comment 14330759 EricJ said:
Quote:
you have no idea WTF you are talking about. You really don't.

How do you know the Browns wanted OBJ so badly that they would be willing to over pay for him?

You also have no idea what the other conversations were like with other teams (regarding an OBJ trade) over the past year. This could have been the best deal that we were offered by anyone.

Mara also could have told Gettleman that there is no way we are going into this season with OBJ on the roster.. find a way to get a deal done.

You have no idea.


I don't know anything about the Browns with 100% certainty. But I'm pretty confident they wanted a superstar player in his prime at a position of need for them badly enough that they would't scuttle the deal over the difference between the 80th and 95th picks.

I understand the psychology of negotiations, that when you get close to something you want badly you're almost always never willing to walk about over a small difference in price.

Imagine a dream house that you had valued at $900,000. There are no other comparable houses available to you. You offer $900,000. seller says there bottom line is $920,000. Assuming you can afford that amount, almost nobody would walk away in those circumstances over an extra $20,000. It's just basic human psychology.
RE: RE: And what if a 4th was on the table  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2019 8:13 am : link
In comment 14330719 Tesla said:
Quote:
In comment 14330707 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


and Gettleman got their later 3rd instead. Does that mean hes an awesome negotiator now?

This thread is bizarre.



No, that doesn't mean anything.


And neither does this thread. Take any negotiation in sports and just ask the same question you are, because why not?

Why wouldnt Pitt tell Oakland to fuck off if they didnt get a 3 and 4 instead of a 3 and 5?
RE: RE: Tesla...  
Bockman : 3/13/2019 8:17 am : link
In comment 14330803 Tesla said:
Quote:

Quote:


I don't know anything about the Browns with 100% certainty. But I'm pretty confident they wanted a superstar player in his prime at a position of need for them badly enough that they would't scuttle the deal over the difference between the 80th and 95th picks.


You have no idea if this is the case. This is all conjecture.
RE: RE: We dont  
DonQuixote : 3/13/2019 8:42 am : link
In comment 14330484 Tesla said:
Quote:
In comment 14330474 darren in pdx said:


Quote:


Know what the negotiations were at all, you cant say it would have been so easy. For all we know maybe the Browns didnt want to originally give up Peppers and they dropped from a 2nd to the late 3rd in negotations. Until someone involved in the trade talks admits to what happened we dont have enough information to say anything conclusively like that at all, its not fair and its narrow-minded.



You didn't answer my question: at the end of the negotiations DG said to Dorsey, no deal unless you include pick #80 instead of #95. You honestly think there is any chance Dorsey walks away over the difference between those picks?


Have you ever negotiated anything? There comes a point where things end up and you either take the deal or blow it up. It happens literally almost every time a negotiation is hard fought.
A report this morning is saying  
Gregorio : 3/13/2019 10:01 am : link
part of this deal is a reversal of the 4th and 5th round swaps that was part of the Vernon/Zeitler trade. That is a jump of 23 sports in the overall draft order.

Tesla,
what conclusion do you draw from this?


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/03/13/report-beckham-trade-leads-to-revision-of-vernon-zeitler-trade-terms/
Agreed, if you want to pile on DG  
ChaChing : 3/13/2019 10:45 am : link
for 15 spots in the 3rd round, I'd assume you're giving him a TON of credit for adjusting 2 already agreed upon trades in NYG's favor after the fact? How often in a negotiation can you agree, then change the terms a few days later?

Obviously this is due to the OBJ trade so again, as many are saying it's not done in a vacuum. If you have a gripe it should start WAY before the 3rd round pick

While I didn't want to trade him, if I were in NYG's position I'd probably be asking for a 2 vs a 3. And a refusal would not likely be a deal breaker (especially if I just wanted him gone). So without the context it's a bit reactive to kill DG over 15 spots in the 3rd
Yes  
fkap : 3/13/2019 10:54 am : link
they would have walked away.

There. Your question is answered. You can stop asking.
RE: Yes  
Tesla : 3/13/2019 11:04 am : link
In comment 14331876 fkap said:
Quote:
they would have walked away.

There. Your question is answered. You can stop asking.


LOL, thank you for at least answering the question. I don't think you really believe that, but thanks anyway.
RE: Agreed, if you want to pile on DG  
5BowlsSoon : 3/13/2019 11:08 am : link
In comment 14331792 ChaChing said:
Quote:
for 15 spots in the 3rd round, I'd assume you're giving him a TON of credit for adjusting 2 already agreed upon trades in NYG's favor after the fact? How often in a negotiation can you agree, then change the terms a few days later?

Obviously this is due to the OBJ trade so again, as many are saying it's not done in a vacuum. If you have a gripe it should start WAY before the 3rd round pick

While I didn't want to trade him, if I were in NYG's position I'd probably be asking for a 2 vs a 3. And a refusal would not likely be a deal breaker (especially if I just wanted him gone). So without the context it's a bit reactive to kill DG over 15 spots in the 3rd


Here here....
Back to the Corner