Beckham was likely a bigger asshole than anybody here (except Go Terps) would like to let on. And now we can all acknowledge, yeah, he might have been a problem in the culture. There's no crime in that. Sure he never did anything criminal. Sure he had guys on the team that liked him, but he might not have been the great teammate/leader he himself thought he was. We don't have to downplay that anymore because he's on our team.
Playing good soldier and getting paid, then pulling the ESPN interview absolutely was a slap in the face to management, and there might have been something to the whispers that the team thought he should have played the final four games.
Finally, at the end of the day, the return isn't as horrible as some are making it out to be. The writing was on the wall with Beckham, and it's clear as day that Antonio Brown just gave the blueprint on how to get what he wants. Ownership just wanted to cut bait and they got the best they could for him, which is actually a very useful haul to us. I think some people were over inflating his trade value yesterday and said so. They absolutely would have taken the #2 overall and nothing else. Two firsts was likely never going to happen. In fact, only 9 players in the past 26 years have yielded two firsts in a trade. Khalil Mack last year, and prior to that you have to go all the way back to 2009 and Jay Cutler. Coupled with Beckhams 90 million dollar contract that the other team had to take on, that's a lot.
The last thing we needed was another losing season and Beckham going off the rails and pulling an Antonio Brown (and now there is a blueprint for that). Especially if a rookie QB is involved, which there most certainly will be. And the return gets worse and worse the longer we wait. Yeah, there's a chance that he might eventually mature enough to realize all of his amazing talent. But there's as big a threat that he'll go off the rails, too. And there have been plenty of signs in the past that he could.
Now we have two 1sts, a 2nd, and two 3rds. We have 5 picks in the top 100 players. The Giants wanted Peppers to make this deal happen, and they got him. Yesterday, we had no safeties, now we have two starters, and Peppers himself was a 1st round pick less than two years ago and might be a talented player. This will all be very useful going forward.
Can we finally stop with the "all in for Eli" mantra now?
Time to focus on the positives and move forward.
Two in the 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd
The key now is what we do with what we have.
- Do we cut Eli?
- Do we foolishly trade up for a QB?
- Do we draft a guy like Daniel Jones expecting him to be competent?
- Do we form a better than average OL and DL with the additional picks, get a LB and DB's?
- Can we find a #1 WR, or even have less than a majority of people named Shepard at the position?
I think Odell just became the Browns headache. But if we don't use the wealth of picks we have and build around Saquon, we will be rightfully deemed as aimless as we have been called the past few years.
Adding Peppers and Bethea at the very least gives us 2 starters and I think we will see an big effort to add to the front 7.
Cleveland has their 4 year window open while we close the window on Eli/OBJ.
This is Barkley's team and we will get our young QB this year.
TBD. The results won't be in for a while, even after the draft is over we will have see ultimately how things turn out.
Now, we can return to what I love about football a being a Giants fan. I can see DG's vision quite clearly. He's in year 2 of rebuilding the o-line and we have very good talent at both RB and TE and will look to improve WR in the draft. We can still be a very good offense.
The defense will take another year but w/ the number of draft picks and cap space next year we can look to 2020 as year 1 or the turnaround.
We need to see what the plan is at QB.......
It isnt like we are the Falcons and have additional weapons on the outside. We now have NO ONE on the outside that scares defenses.
Missed 17 games in the last 2 years & the team hasnt won with him.
Hopefully they get the QB position right, thats the big question.
It isnt like we are the Falcons and have additional weapons on the outside. We now have NO ONE on the outside that scares defenses.
There is still time in the off-season
I'd argue you can't build a team culture when you're wasting top 10 picks on Ereck Flowers and Eli Apple. Removing talent isn't the correct move.... adding talent is. Some people lost sight of what the team's actual problem was. They have no talent on defense and the talent on offense is wasted due to a poor OL and declining QB.
But hey, let's hear some more about that ESPN interview.
Horseshit. He bitched out of diving for that onside kick, and sat out the last 4 games with a bruised leg.
BUT
He's proved to be injury prone with his style, and other teams target him on top of that.
Some on here have commented that it appears he has lost a step. Slants that went for long TDs were now 20 yard gains.
Beyond the lockeroom, the Giants probably had a sense that OBJ was going to be a problem in regards to money/contract.
Having said all that - along with a rebuild in order - the Giants probably decided trading the star now when he'll be 27 at midseason - was the best thing.
You can make a case by the time the Giants are to win he'll be 30 and in what physical shape?
I thought we got:
1st, 3rd, our old 3rd
for
OBJ, Browns old 4th
The key now is what we do with what we have.
- Do we cut Eli?
- Do we foolishly trade up for a QB?
- Do we draft a guy like Daniel Jones expecting him to be competent?
- Do we form a better than average OL and DL with the additional picks, get a LB and DB's?
- Can we find a #1 WR, or even have less than a majority of people named Shepard at the position?
I think Odell just became the Browns headache. But if we don't use the wealth of picks we have and build around Saquon, we will be rightfully deemed as aimless as we have been called the past few years.
Spot on.
Trading up for a QB and essentially trading Odell for a QB and Peppers would be incredibly dumb, as would taking Jones. I like Haskins and would be fine with the pick but theyre almost better off cutting Eli and playing Lauletta because theyre guaranteed a top 2 pick next year.
If you buy into the theory the Giants got screwed on this trade, then where were the other offers?
Either Gettleman ignored the other offers (not likely unless it was from a division rival) or the market for Beckham is not what we thought.
I have no idea if OBJ was a bigger headache than any of us outside the organization knew. There may be a ton of other things we dont know about. But I think assuming there must have been is giving Mara and DG credit for reacting logically instead of emotionally to the Lil Wayne interview which I think may also be the case.
Then don't trade him. Simple as that.
I thought we got:
1st, 3rd, our old 3rd
for
OBJ, Browns old 4th
No, the Giants and Browns had swapped 4th (Eli Apple pick) and 5th round picks. Now they revert back to old teams.
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an asshole but he also played his ass off every time he stepped on the field. His teammates also loved him and said he was one of the hardest working players on the team. He may have said some stupid shit to reporters and off the field but when they guy stepped on the field he gave it everything. We won't have another player of his caliber for a very long time and trading him for what we got in return was quite simply a mistake.
Horseshit. He bitched out of diving for that onside kick, and sat out the last 4 games with a bruised leg.
This all of a sudden became a ridiculous talking point to justify getting rid of him. It's a PR spin and the fact fans believe this horseshit is pathetic.
Ask yourself this, while bitching about the Giants management being thin skinned- what would BB do with shit like this? Would he be ok with being questioned like that and basically having the game plan and play of others called out in media forum?? Hell no.. BB ships guys out all the time...
The Giants have added to their team with Peppers (at a position of need and a position that has been exploited by Betcher in AZ), added 2 good draft selection spots and reclaimed their 4th rd pick.
FA now becomes interesting as we can really remake our Oline, grab a VET WR (one that will tow the line and be a positive influence on what will no doubt be a young WR corps with a draft pick or two) and we can still get a LB to add as well.
The Giants can grab a QB in the draft if they want but don't have to and we can go after an attack guy at LB/EDGE with the 6th pick.. A game changer.
Players loving him means nothing... Jesus
They already have Barkley. Granted it was only 1 year. But I'd say Barkley is a player of equal caliber....
The key now is what we do with what we have.
- Do we cut Eli?
- Do we foolishly trade up for a QB?
- Do we draft a guy like Daniel Jones expecting him to be competent?
- Do we form a better than average OL and DL with the additional picks, get a LB and DB's?
- Can we find a #1 WR, or even have less than a majority of people named Shepard at the position?
I think Odell just became the Browns headache. But if we don't use the wealth of picks we have and build around Saquon, we will be rightfully deemed as aimless as we have been called the past few years.
You know DGs body of work, draft and UDFA accomplishments better than most here. Are you not confident he can successfully build this team mainly through the draft? I am and I didnt even want him here
26% of all gamjes he was in the league for he missed. 16 out of the last 32 games.
If you buy into the theory the Giants got screwed on this trade, then where were the other offers?
Either Gettleman ignored the other offers (not likely unless it was from a division rival) or the market for Beckham is not what we thought.
I heard last night (I think Glazer but don't hold me to that) was that the Giants shopped the offer from the Browns and nobody else came close to what the Browns offered.
If you buy into the theory the Giants got screwed on this trade, then where were the other offers?
Either Gettleman ignored the other offers (not likely unless it was from a division rival) or the market for Beckham is not what we thought.
Eric, I think Brown set the stage that Odell was going to dictate where he was going to go. The Giants clearly made the decision that the time to trade him was now and next year might be a year too late. From what we can tell, the only destinations that Odell was interested in was LA, SF, and Cleveland. All the rumors in the press about SF were either overblown or floated by the Giants to get the Browns to pony up more. I don't think the Niners ever offered their first pick for Odell. They probably offered something like their second rounder and maybe a first next year. Gettleman probably said he needs a first rounder this year, a 2/3rd and a starter.
The Rams didn't have the bullets because of their cap trouble. So that left the Browns. There was no other market. I'm sure Mara and Gettleman would have loved to ship his ass off to Buffalo like the Steelers tried with Brown.
I still go back to my question last night. Why now, ie last night? This is a deal that the Browns would have had on the table for weeks if need be. Was it triggered by the fact that they want Earl Thomas so they needed to trade Peppers? Or are the Giants trying to land Rosen?
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Not a mass murderer like Ray Lewis. Just a diva soy boy, can't build a team culture around such poor leadership qualities.
I'd argue you can't build a team culture when you're wasting top 10 picks on Ereck Flowers and Eli Apple. Removing talent isn't the correct move.... adding talent is. Some people lost sight of what the team's actual problem was. They have no talent on defense and the talent on offense is wasted due to a poor OL and declining QB.
But hey, let's hear some more about that ESPN interview.
Thank you. I feel like the total dump of the roster is throwing the baby out with the bathwater. A good GM would be able to look objectively at the pieces already in place and build on that. This is just a total overhaul for the sake of purging the players that came before.
I do worry about Mara's mucking shit up, especially if the rumors are true that Mara overruled getting rid of Beckham last year. Doing that would've fit Gettleman's MO more closely - get out at the right time.
If you buy into the theory the Giants got screwed on this trade, then where were the other offers?
Either Gettleman ignored the other offers (not likely unless it was from a division rival) or the market for Beckham is not what we thought.
What you are missing Eric is that teams don't lead with their best offers. It can often take weeks or months of negotiating to tease out the best offer from someone you are negotiating with. Can you really say you have total confidence that Gettleman is an expert at getting the top offers in his trades based upon what we've seen from his thus far??? Snacks for a 5, a cost controlled Apple for a 4, not trading Collins for a 3, the Ogletree trade?
We have been sorely lacking in the size department at WR for a while.
Reese and company clearly believed in speed over size towards the end.
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I was just excited to see him and Saquan on the field together with a competent offensive line. That along with Engram improving couldve been fun to watch.
It isnt like we are the Falcons and have additional weapons on the outside. We now have NO ONE on the outside that scares defenses.
There is still time in the off-season
There could be all the time in the world, we are not replacing Odell's on field talent with anyone remotely close this year.
My sneaking suspicion is that they took the Cleveland offer because they took some pleasure in fucking over Beckham. He wants to play in warmer weather and on the West Coast. Say hello to Cleveland, asshole! After he kind of fucked over the team with the Little Wayne interview and the lack of onfield effort, extending to simply not playing.
It kind of sends a message to the team and to the league. Don't fuck with us or we will fuck with you.
I'm probably wrong but I've got it in my head that they were dancing for joy over the fact that they sent him to Cleveland, of all places.
I also think that the Giants desire to unload Beckham must have been widely known in NFL front offices. Nobody was ponying up what we, as fans, think he was worth. We might be right about his worth, but there was a "fire sale" element here.
I'm glad he's gone. He's a terrific player and a very hard worker. But he's a head case. I'll never forget the dog peeing in the endzone thing. Total childish bullshit. Not the Giants way, nor should it be.
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thing I don't seeing being mentioned much by the pundits is this...
If you buy into the theory the Giants got screwed on this trade, then where were the other offers?
Either Gettleman ignored the other offers (not likely unless it was from a division rival) or the market for Beckham is not what we thought.
What you are missing Eric is that teams don't lead with their best offers. It can often take weeks or months of negotiating to tease out the best offer from someone you are negotiating with. Can you really say you have total confidence that Gettleman is an expert at getting the top offers in his trades based upon what we've seen from his thus far??? Snacks for a 5, a cost controlled Apple for a 4, not trading Collins for a 3, the Ogletree trade?
We didn't have weeks or months. You wait weeks or months you gamble that Beckham goes nuclear ala Brown and what was a 1st, 3rd, and Peppers today becomes a 3rd and 5th next October.
I do worry about Mara's mucking shit up, especially if the rumors are true that Mara overruled getting rid of Beckham last year. Doing that would've fit Gettleman's MO more closely - get out at the right time.
Fatman,
From the sound of it, it was Shurmur who mucked it up. Gettleman clearly wanted Odell gone. If he could, he'd have blown up anyone who shook Reese/Ross' hand at some point.
But Shurmur, understandably, as the head coach wants to win games this year. So he's going to look at the roster, look at Odell's ability and talent and say "yeah, I can coach him, give me a chance." The Giants don't want to hamstring their new coach, so they decided to change course and let him try and see if he could make it work. We saw it blow up and Odell sitting out the last 4 games really appears to be the trigger that told the Giants they were done with him and he had to go. At the very least you can credit the organization for giving it one more go to see if it could work, and when they saw it wasn't, they ripped the bandaid off.
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thing I don't seeing being mentioned much by the pundits is this...
If you buy into the theory the Giants got screwed on this trade, then where were the other offers?
Either Gettleman ignored the other offers (not likely unless it was from a division rival) or the market for Beckham is not what we thought.
I heard last night (I think Glazer but don't hold me to that) was that the Giants shopped the offer from the Browns and nobody else came close to what the Browns offered.
Too many Madden posters....if this wasn't the best deal available, where were the other offers?
Pretty freakin' obvious.
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In comment 14331191 Capt. Don said:
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I was just excited to see him and Saquan on the field together with a competent offensive line. That along with Engram improving couldve been fun to watch.
It isnt like we are the Falcons and have additional weapons on the outside. We now have NO ONE on the outside that scares defenses.
There is still time in the off-season
There could be all the time in the world, we are not replacing Odell's on field talent with anyone remotely close this year.
I don't think it's required to have an Odell clone talent wise for the offense to do it's job.
1. We have won zero playoff games with him on the roster
2. Has he lost the top burst??? It did seem so last year.
3. For all the amazing catches he makes how many routine ones went thru his hands at critical times in games
Like I said I still think the Giants were a better team with him but if they felt it was time to move on so be it. DG needs to nail this draft.
Adding Peppers and Bethea at the very least gives us 2 starters and I think we will see an big effort to add to the front 7.
Cleveland has their 4 year window open while we close the window on Eli/OBJ.
This is Barkley's team and we will get our young QB this year.
1990 called and says hello to your "power running game".
so the elephant is they fkd up last offseason (ex the draft which was fruitful to some extent).
now the "leaks" --- every player and carl banks has spoken highly-- so where are the leaks from?
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In comment 14331191 Capt. Don said:
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I was just excited to see him and Saquan on the field together with a competent offensive line. That along with Engram improving couldve been fun to watch.
It isnt like we are the Falcons and have additional weapons on the outside. We now have NO ONE on the outside that scares defenses.
There is still time in the off-season
There could be all the time in the world, we are not replacing Odell's on field talent with anyone remotely close this year.
There are only a couple of players with more talent than Odell. But the Giants had 1 winning season with him and flamed out (in large part thanks to Odell) in their one playoff game. You don't need to replace his talent, you need to build a better team and the timing wasn't there to build that team with Odell. I wish they could have found a way to make it work, but it wasn't going to happen and this might have been the Giants last shot at getting back even the package they did.
The consternation over a player with whom we did nothing but lose is incredible. Same with Collins too.
It's amazing how many fans wanted to keep such a shitty band together. The Giants have sucked, and Beckham was part of the reason why.
Geez you'd think we were cutting Carl Banks in 1986.
That said Im a Giants fan first and foremost and can only move forward. Like whenever a new boss takes over a struggling company he or she is going to want people who fit their mould of success,so was bracing for an old school guy like DG to not gel with an offbeat guy like Beckham
Beckham, while "fiery", was not channeling that energy in the proper way, IMO, and it may have been rubbing off on his teammates. It clearly did on Sheppard, who had not acted like that before (or since).
17? Is a Metcalf type guy a WR1? I mean, we gotta draft his replacement. #1 WR don't hit the FA market very often. Idk.
17? Is a Metcalf type guy a WR1? I mean, we gotta draft his replacement. #1 WR don't hit the FA market very often. Idk.
Engram, Sheppard, and Saquon are still decent threats.
What we need, IMO, is size on the outside now.
We've sacrificed size for speed at that position for years. Neither Beckham or Sheppard were 6 feet tall.
After the dirty laundry about OBJ in NY started to get aired immediately after the trade - I'll be OBJ starts bitching about the Giants allegiance to Eli and how Eli is done and that's why he didn't bother playing the last 4 games of the season with a leg bruise.
After the dirty laundry about OBJ in NY started to get aired immediately after the trade - I'll be OBJ starts bitching about the Giants allegiance to Eli and how Eli is done and that's why he didn't bother playing the last 4 games of the season with a leg bruise.
I was out last night, what dirty laundry got aired?
17? Is a Metcalf type guy a WR1? I mean, we gotta draft his replacement. #1 WR don't hit the FA market very often. Idk.
There is no replacement for him this season. Whoever the QB is this year is stuck with what they have and maybe a pick in the mid to late rounds. The QB this year is going take his lumps, physically and statistically. If it's Eli, he's going to be taking one for the team this year. The Giants deserve it from him at the very least.
That is akin to referencing Eli Apple as the Saints acquiring a first round pick from the Giants. Peppers is still young, but he has not lived up to his draft status through his first two years in the league. Alone, nobody was giving up a 1st for him.
If that is true, then I don't think anybody can argue he had to go.
Agreed. This felt like a preemptive move.
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the huge issue is the lack of planning or foresight in any of these moves
gettleman has been all over the place with regards to being in win now mode and apparently in a rebuild
he gave up draft picks for a punter and ogletree
he signed solder to a monster contract
he signed omameh and cut him mid season
he signed jonathan stewart and then drafted a qb #2
i seriously doubt everyone would have had this big of an issue if it looked like he had a long term plan that he was in the process of executing when it certainly appears the opposite is the case and hes just throwing shit against the wall and hoping it sticks
Dealing with OBJ through a roster overhaul would have been nighmarish and moving him now (I think) avoided putting the Giants in a situation in which the Steelers found themselves where they were forced they moved AB for a pretzel, a hot dog, and bag of chips (or whatever it is that DG eats).
Not sure I'm willing to give DG the credit for having the foresight to know that going for it last year with Eli at the helm (to basically sell this idea to the Giants FO to get hired) and know that if it failed, the contract extension to OBJ was his insurance policy if, after one year Eli couldn't do it. The insurance being he could ship the star WR off for a bunch of picks to rebuild. If that was his grand master plan all along - the guy is a wizard.
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This quote from Gettleman at the combine seems to shed some insight into the thought process behind the Odell trade:
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Whether you believe the stories or not is irrelevant. All that matters is moving forward and seeing what happens next.
We just got a lot of draft capital and freed up future cap room, especially with Eli off the books next year. All of these people crying about a 3-4 year rebuild dont really realize the position we are in if executed well.
2019 is going to suck, but it was likely going to suck anyway. I only wish they would just cut Eli but I dont think thats happening. Everything else Im good with.
Actually our offense scores about 4 more points a game when he plays....so objectively speaking your'e simply wrong.
BUT - I do believe that OBJ was a pain in the ass and I don't think that it's going to be hard for the Giants to paint OBJ as a selfish asshole that only cared about himself, his career and his money. Some of OBJ's time (or lack there of) on the field spoke to this more than any story the Giants brass can spin.
The consternation over a player with whom we did nothing but lose is incredible. Same with Collins too.
It's amazing how many fans wanted to keep such a shitty band together. The Giants have sucked, and Beckham was part of the reason why.
Geez you'd think we were cutting Carl Banks in 1986.
Have you never heard of good players on losing teams? Why bring in Zeitler? Guy has done nothing but lose his entire career. If you were running the Giants in 1980 would you have moved Harry Carson and George Martin? Huge losers the both of them prior to 1981.
At least the offseason will be interesting this year and next.
Even in 2016 when we went to the playoffs, we looked like shit throughout the year and barely won any games.
Regarding the trade market for OBJ and all this we should have got more handwringing. Look at the AB trade and how the Steelers got very little for a WR that is arguably better than OBJ. The market is unsentimental but its sellers rarely are. When you sell a house, you most often get what the market says your house is worth; when you sell *your* house you almost always get less than what you thought it was worth.
We get it man, broken record. And the Yankees are stupid for not getting machado too, we know.
I look forward to one day going 16-0 and then hoisting a Lombardi again, maybe then youll crack a smile.
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it was in a locker room full of losing players.
The consternation over a player with whom we did nothing but lose is incredible. Same with Collins too.
It's amazing how many fans wanted to keep such a shitty band together. The Giants have sucked, and Beckham was part of the reason why.
Geez you'd think we were cutting Carl Banks in 1986.
Have you never heard of good players on losing teams? Why bring in Zeitler? Guy has done nothing but lose his entire career. If you were running the Giants in 1980 would you have moved Harry Carson and George Martin? Huge losers the both of them prior to 1981.
Have you ever heard of a guy being a loser and a cancer? Beckham is a loser and a cancer. A lot of people (including the Giants' front office and coaches) looked the other way for years with this clown. I'm glad it's over.
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If we had a competent GM, that might mean something.
We get it man, broken record. And the Yankees are stupid for not getting machado too, we know.
I look forward to one day going 16-0 and then hoisting a Lombardi again, maybe then youll crack a smile.
Dont count on it. :)
There was passing speculation on NFL Network that maybe OBJ might start agitating for a new deal. Nothing more. Just talking head speculation. NFLN didn't report it as "news." It wasn't coming from an NFLN reporter like Garafalo or Rappoport. Some guy on set said it was maybe something that could happen. Already, this has taken on a life of its own. It's not even fake news. It's not news. It's just fake.
Have you ever heard of a guy being a loser and a cancer? Beckham is a loser and a cancer. A lot of people (including the Giants' front office and coaches) looked the other way for years with this clown. I'm glad it's over.
The cancer used top 10 picks on Ereck Flowers and Eli Apple?
The cancer signed Nate Solder to a massive contract?
The cancer was the reason the defense has been an abomination 4 of the past 5 years?
If Odell was a cancer, these other things must be extinction level events.