Guys he has moved on from all seemed to have the 'I' gene instead of team.
Beckham due to his insane talent level was given more rope, hoping to see him mature. A couple asshats even talked about it.
It never happened and they finally gave up on him maturing especially after how he reacted after receiving the big contract.
This trade is not a surprise when you pay close attention to DGs M.O. both here and Carolina.
Look for stronger character guys to be brought in here that also are good football players.
Man people have been giving me shit all offseason for being negative, and it's never made sense. The team has been a complete shitshow...negativity is the reality.
I'll say Gettleman is doing a good job when he's done a good job.
First asshat moment for me. Could be my last lol.
First asshat moment for me. Could be my last lol.
I have trouble with this one if true. Why not go after Foles then? Why not release him earlier and sign a couple of the better FAs. I guess we'll wait and see.
Terps, I hear what you are saying and generally agree about Beckham and Manning. But you act like these are all easy decisions and you have all the answers. The fact is there are always lots of factors, public and private, and there are negotiations among numerous stakeholders, and some things are going to go better than others. There are future uncertainties, injuries, draft order and you have to hedge against risks.
You don't know what we could have gotten for Beckham last year with a short leash on his contract. We would have gotten less or paid more if we kept him and let him hit FA. My point is that these are all difficult decisions and while you can certainly disagree with whatever you want, you do not have all the answers.
You could choose to emphasize that while it was a year too late, the Giants lost the player you wanted them to lose, they traded out Collins for a better younger cheaper prospect that can actually cover, they rid themselves of the Vernon contract, and in exchange got a top guard at a fair price. We have a heightened need at WR but have 12 picks in the draft.
I hear the hindsight on a Collins and/or OBJ trade last year, but it just does not always go your way. Things are not that simple in the real world.
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In comment 14331821 The Dude said:
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In comment 14331761 UConn4523 said:
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the same responses are so tiresome.
LOL hiring the 70 year old guy thats been with the org for years is "change"?
Yeah let’s not look at what he’s done, let’s harp on his age. Talk about clueless.
this is outstanding. What's he done?
Clearly nothing you like. I happen to like his approach, especially given the confines likely mandated to him.
You guys that want some 35 year old kid out of MIT to run the show need to understand that Mara isn’t hiring that. Hate Mara for that, don’t hate Gettleman.
I happen to like the trades he’s pulled off. We have a ton of draft capital and future cap room and build a team that dictates TOP. Maybe you disagree with that, we’ll see what happens, but he’s getting rid of players who didn’t have a future here regardless, why is that not a good thing?
Apple stunk
Vernon wasn’t worth his price tag
Snacks was a 2 down specialist that was a likely cut this offseason
Flowers stunk
Omameh got cut without blinking
What would you have done differently with these rostered players?
His biggest mistake has been Eli and I actually think he wants to move on and isn’t allowed to. That’s just my opinion, I have nothing to back that up but I don’t think I’m wrong on that one.
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What the hell does it even mean?
We're going to pass on the most talented players because they don't fit into some bullshit idea of what old, white guys think players should act like?
If you're a manager, you're job is to manage personnel. If you can't do that, maybe it's time to seek other employment.
Agree. The trade may work out and the locker room may be better but if you can’t stand gifted prima donnas, you’re not the guy to handle elite players.
This !!!
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Saquon wears white after Labor Day. We'll have to ship him out too...
Saquon and Sterling are strong character guys. You also see it manifest in the way Shep gives it all up to block for Saquon in the run game.
Fwiw, so did Beckham.
The list with OBJ is long.
Those aren't my words, they're Bill Belichick's. I'd recommend the 45 minute interview from 2017....
What does BB know! This is BBI!
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One of my oldest and most trusted of friend’s just told me he knows a guy that works closely with the giants and this guy stated eli will be released shortly. I am not sure I even buy it, but who knows. Take it for what it’s worth.
First asshat moment for me. Could be my last lol.
I have trouble with this one if true. Why not go after Foles then? Why not release him earlier and sign a couple of the better FAs. I guess we'll wait and see.
Who knows... I don’t even buy it but figured it was worth sharing. They could be thinking long view and just want to reset things with the new qb this year.
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all fine and good, but why re-sign him to a 5-year, $95 million contract less than a year ago? Why didn't they trade Landon Collins in October? Then you have moves like signing Omameh and cutting him before half the season is out.
Signing Beckham was galactically stupid.
Jesus would you just stop already? Why? You make it sound so easy. If they let him walk they get NOTHING in return. If they do try and trade him before that extension, and for all we know they did try, they might not not get the return they got now that he is signed long term.
Dead money bla bla bla bla bla. You don’t even want to spend the money anyway so relax already. They aren’t spending money this offseason anyway, they are taking the long game approach — who cares about the cap hit this season.
You love to bitch dude.
You have wanted this guy gone since the jump. They traded him. Got back good chips. What’s the problem? Spin this anyway you want.
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In comment 14332089 djm said:
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One of my oldest and most trusted of friend’s just told me he knows a guy that works closely with the giants and this guy stated eli will be released shortly. I am not sure I even buy it, but who knows. Take it for what it’s worth.
First asshat moment for me. Could be my last lol.
I have trouble with this one if true. Why not go after Foles then? Why not release him earlier and sign a couple of the better FAs. I guess we'll wait and see.
Who knows... I don’t even buy it but figured it was worth sharing. They could be thinking long view and just want to reset things with the new qb this year.
Given everything else,, it would actually be the move that would make the most sense. But, the smart thing to do would be to turn it over to Lauletta (or, I suppose Tanney). It would compound any stupidity he has exhibited to go for Haskins, Murray, Or Rosen, *especially* if he had to use accumulated assets to do so. He's put in the moves that gives them a great entree to an elite QB (and none of those guys are it) next year.
What?
Awesome platitude. One of your best. And I never ever said this.
That’s fucking it. Deal with it.
That's what they've been doing...
They cut a ton of guys although are inexplicably hanging on to McCoy. The parallels are interesting.
Go play Mega Millions since you must know what numbers are going to be drawn.
Because they lack talent, plain and simple. They won a Super Bowl when they had Strahan skipping training camp and Plax ditching practice for an entire season.
I've been saying this for awhile - the biggest issue the last 5 years is below average coaching. There have been personell issues, and injury issues, but one can't say McAdoo is a lousy coach, the team has no talent, and yet goes 11-5. The '16 and '17 teams had talent. Piss poor management of that talent, along with catastrophic injuries to WR in '17 were the primary reasons for 3-13.
So far I have seen no evidence that Gettleman and Shurmer can right the ship, we shall see in the next year or 2.
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the same responses are so tiresome.
LOL hiring the 70 year old guy thats been with the org for years is "change"?
If you can't see a change in the approach to personnel after all that has happened I don't know what to tell you. Just because he is 70 doesn't mean he doesn't have a strategy or doesn't know how to build a team.
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That's what they've been doing...
Because they lack talent, plain and simple. They won a Super Bowl when they had Strahan skipping training camp and Plax ditching practice for an entire season.
And that nfl doesn’t exist anymore. You want our GM to be forward thinking, I suggest doing the same. What Strathan and Plax got away with doesn’t work anymore. You just saw that with 2 top WRs and to an extent, Khalil Mack. Got a problem with practicing, there’s the door.
I really don’t know what else to tell you.
Culture doesn't matter...tell that to the Pats....
He has been purging those players, and it's a necessary purge. If you want to build a winner, you need players with the right attitude. Make no mistake, with or without Eli, this is a rebuild.
I know many on here still love Shockey, but look at the jump in production the team made from the end of 2007 though 12 games in 2008 with a lesser player who was more coachable and had a good attitude (Boss).
Attitude matters.
That said with Beckham in particular, his dollar cost went up dramatically with the new deal, and his production went down enough that it didn't cover his $ cost together with his bullshit cost.
I posted yesterday that he cost us $3,000,000 per TD last year. A team should target about 60 TDs a year, extrapolating that out if every TD cost $3,000,000 then the total cost of TDs would be $180,000,000. There goes your whole cap for offensive skill players. It leave not room for QB, Oline, the entire defense and special teams. THe production alone simply didn't justify the cost. Add in the bullshit factor and OBJ had to go.
Add to that, the fact that the idiot wants even more money. That was just one last FU to the Giants. He had to go. Asking for more money also dropped his value as trade bait unfortunately.
But I am willing to be patient and give this some time to play out. He was hired and he deserves his 3 years.
But I am willing to be patient and give this some time to play out. He was hired and he deserves his 3 years.
Agreed, salient points. Let his plan unfold a little more before judging it as a disaster.
The most celebrated Giants teams of the 80s won on the back of a cocaine crazed hall of Famer who slept in team meetings, sent prostitutes to opposing team hotel rooms, and failed drug tests in a scandal. And hes a hero, because you dont actually care about "team" when it results in wins. When theres nothing but losses you become guardians of a behavior standard you dont even live by yourselves.
But I am willing to be patient and give this some time to play out. He was hired and he deserves his 3 years.
McL don't you think the point might have merit that some of these "malcontents" are the result of clashing with our traditional and possibly dated styles.
Don't you find that culture shifts and innovation improvements typically go hand in hand?
Don't we have an alarming number of players with attitude problems compared to other teams? Isn't this potentially very alarming from a numerical perspective?
To this end. Isn't there a case to be made that since much of the scouting staff has remained the same and there is no real evidence that our decision making processes have change that this idea that we are somehow NOW able to assess character might be a far fetched idea?
I agree by the way that this is potentially the right way to go by investing in the lines, I know we share this. However, both the returns we have gotten on these deals. And the way we undermine our players and handle things at the time might indeed affect the returns we get?
I'm linking an article on traits of bad leaders and I think we can see a lot of that here. But "permitting negative gossip" is one that really stands out to me. Any objective analysis that we make that this was a fair return has to include the fact that we shot ourselves in the foot in the way we've handled some of our most high value assets. (Even if you want to color them all as bad seeds)
15 Traits of a Terrible Leader - ( New Window )
The most celebrated Giants teams of the 80s won on the back of a cocaine crazed hall of Famer who slept in team meetings, sent prostitutes to opposing team hotel rooms, and failed drug tests in a scandal. And hes a hero, because you dont actually care about "team" when it results in wins. When theres nothing but losses you become guardians of a behavior standard you dont even live by yourselves.
Odell, not so much from the onside kick against the Bears to the sudden desire for an IV before the half ended to sitting out the last 4 games.
Year 1
1. Say you can have a winning team (even though you are lying and this is "what you have to do")
2. Accuse all players you didn't draft of high talent of being malcontents, deal out of desperation and get below value
3. Overpay for veterans while saying you don't have money to fill other holes on team, some that you created
Year 2
1. Purge team of most remaining talent, create culture of fear for anyone that isn't willing to question your authority unequivocally
2. Bring in younger more impressionable players that you make call you sir because they don't know any better
The epic Packers under Lombardi were hard core party hounds too. That's not the point. The point is would they sacrifice their bodies for each other and in the case of the Packers, the LT Giant teams and out 2007-2012 team, the answer was "yes."
Odell, not so much from the onside kick against the Bears to the sudden desire for an IV before the half ended to sitting out the last 4 games.
Cut the bullshit, homer. He lost a year of his career because he was giving max effort in a useless preseason game and had his ankle broken.
The Giants are unlikely to win another game until Gettleman and Shurmur are gone.
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I am not the biggest Gettleman fan.
But I am willing to be patient and give this some time to play out. He was hired and he deserves his 3 years.
McL don't you think the point might have merit that some of these "malcontents" are the result of clashing with our traditional and possibly dated styles.
Don't you find that culture shifts and innovation improvements typically go hand in hand?
Don't we have an alarming number of players with attitude problems compared to other teams? Isn't this potentially very alarming from a numerical perspective?
To this end. Isn't there a case to be made that since much of the scouting staff has remained the same and there is no real evidence that our decision making processes have change that this idea that we are somehow NOW able to assess character might be a far fetched idea?
I agree by the way that this is potentially the right way to go by investing in the lines, I know we share this. However, both the returns we have gotten on these deals. And the way we undermine our players and handle things at the time might indeed affect the returns we get?
I'm linking an article on traits of bad leaders and I think we can see a lot of that here. But "permitting negative gossip" is one that really stands out to me. Any objective analysis that we make that this was a fair return has to include the fact that we shot ourselves in the foot in the way we've handled some of our most high value assets. (Even if you want to color them all as bad seeds) 15 Traits of a Terrible Leader - ( New Window )
Absolutely the "malcontents" and bad attitude players is the result of bad leadership.
But that has to be pinned on Reese and McAdoo.
In a workplace, once people's attitudes has gone sour, I have never seen it get turned around, even with new management. The only way to change the overall attitude of the organization is to purge the people who have gone sour.
I have taken over groups where I had to be the one doing the purging. Never fun, but necessary. So, I can't fault Gettleman for doing what I have done in the past.
That is not to say that their won't be players who will go sour on Shurmur and Gettleman. That remains to be seen.
And the fact that players who so easily soured were brought in is not a good mark for the scouting department. But I don't know what compromises Reese and Co. were making, perhaps the scouting department highlighted the issues, and Reese chose to overlook them.
Since the same scouting department was responsible for the 2005 - 2011 teams which were populated with good character guys, I will give them a pass for now. If we start building with bad character guys again, then the whole lot of FO personnel has to go, coach, GM, directors of pro and college personnel and all the scouts. Blow it up.
What do the Giants have that would give any player reason to buy in? It's not the coach, who's never even had a winning season. It's not the quality of the talent in the locker room. We all know it's non-existent.
I know we obviously agree on that but reading about how Lurie deals with the decision making process now in that ESPN article about the Eagles was a tough read.
I think Gettleman will clearly get 3 years and we are essentially on the same page. But I also think this idea that they might be onto something and it requires patience to let play out is kind of a difficult one to swallow.
Given how Mara clearly is impacted by the fans the idea that we have evidence that whatever produced the bad culture being fixed is a little far fetched?
I think it boils down to yeah, maybe they did this right 10 years ago but a lot has changed since then and maybe the idea that when everyone was essentially throwing darts that any dart thrower was as good as the next but now that some people are throwing darts while others are shooting at the same targets with sniper rifles might play a role in this problem.
I know i'm preaching to the converted on a lot of this but I also think it is kind of dangerous right now to buy into the idea that even if this does work (which we can agree is some probabilistic function that isn't insignificant) that a failure to acknowledge that we might still be at a disadvantage even dispute this is not ideal?
DG is not just jettisoning players he's playing Pick Four straight and boxed
DG is not just jettisoning players he's taking a penny and leaving a penny
DG is not just jettisoning players he's wondering where this other sock went
DG is not just jettisoning players he's getting on a plane and leaving
DG is not just jettisoning players he's giving this guy the business
We're going to pass on the most talented players because they don't fit into some bullshit idea of what old, white guys think players should act like?
If you're a manager, you're job is to manage personnel. If you can't do that, maybe it's time to seek other employment.
Don't bring logic into this.
Stop it Eric. Don't you dare ask relevant questions and question the machine.