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Giants offense w/o OBJ scored 40, 27, and 35 pts 3 of last 4

Pan-handler : 3/13/2019 12:36 pm
Look I get he is a big loss to the pass game but he is not the end all be all to have a good offense either. We won a SuperBowl after losing Tiki (who was arguably our top offensive weapon) and another one after trading Shockey. You can argue neither are as good as Beckham but the point remains the same. This offense can still be good when losing a top player provided the OL does it job and we have other players that are still good and playing as a unit. Those ingredients are here , the OL has taken another jump at improving with Zietler and the offense showed up bigtime w/o OBJ scoring 27, 40 and 35 points (except in the Titans game where our OL got their butt kicked).

Our identity now is the run and Barkley is the center of that. Playaction off the run and we saw it working with lesser receivers because the identity was clear and the OL did its job.

Couple this with another WR added in the draft or FA , I think the offense will be in better shape than people realize.

And we just got alot stronger on defense with Safeties that fit Bettchers system a whole lot more than the previous guys did.

and  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/13/2019 12:37 pm : link
0.

But your point is valid.
Good point  
eric2425ny : 3/13/2019 12:37 pm : link
we did play well without him last year. Perhaps we were too focused on getting him his “touches”.
RE: and  
Now Mike in MD : 3/13/2019 12:37 pm : link
In comment 14332630 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
0.

But your point is valid.


That Titans game was so bizarre with the weather. IDK you can use that as a measure of anything
There’s many reasons why  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2019 12:37 pm : link
but it does show a sample size of why running will be a focal point. I know people are crying about it like it’s obsolete, but tell that to all the playoff teams that ran the ball well.
The Redskins game was far more about  
Tesla : 3/13/2019 12:38 pm : link
the defense annihilating Sanchez.

How many of those points in the last 4 games were scored or setup by the defense?
The Titans Game Was Brutal  
Capt. Don : 3/13/2019 12:39 pm : link
and the offense was bad but our inability to stop their running game had as much to do with the shut out as our offense.
Over the last few years....  
Tesla : 3/13/2019 12:40 pm : link
we score something like 4-5 less points a game when Beckham was out.....so let's not lie to ourselves that our offense has been better without him on the field.
Eli's stats with and without Odell  
Josh in the City : 3/13/2019 12:41 pm : link

But let's continue to pretend we're a better team without him b/c of 3 games against the Redskins, Colts and Cowboys. And let's also conveniently leave out the game we scored 0 in between against the Titans. But ok.
RE: Over the last few years....  
Pan-handler : 3/13/2019 12:41 pm : link
In comment 14332651 Tesla said:
Quote:
we score something like 4-5 less points a game when Beckham was out.....so let's not lie to ourselves that our offense has been better without him on the field.


Didnt have Barkley or a semblance of an OL either
Can Engram  
Matt in SGS : 3/13/2019 12:41 pm : link
stay healthy is a huge key next year. The lightbulb seemed to go on for him those last 4 games. I'm also curious if the Giants do go after a TE (one of the Iowa kids) at pick 17. T.J. Hockenson has been talked up by Dave Te. Said the Patriots are all over this kid and he's the next Mark Bavaro (which to me is like calling someone the next LT as a linebacker).

The Patriots have used TEs as a mismatch for years, and the Gronk/Hernandez duo was tremendous (I was gonna say deadly, but that was too easy). The Giants could do the same. Go defense with the first pick, get Hockenson with #17 and come back with a DL or OL in round 2.
And by the way....  
Tesla : 3/13/2019 12:42 pm : link
Barkley had his two worst games of the year (by far) in the last 4 games without OBJ on the field (he also had 2 great games).
To be realistic  
ZogZerg : 3/13/2019 12:43 pm : link
Post the stats for 2018 with and without OBJ.

It doesn't matter what happened with different coaching staff.
RE: And by the way....  
Now Mike in MD : 3/13/2019 12:44 pm : link
In comment 14332669 Tesla said:
Quote:
Barkley had his two worst games of the year (by far) in the last 4 games without OBJ on the field (he also had 2 great games).


You're assuming the Giants do nothing at the WR position either via FA or the draft so we'd be trotting out the same group of WRs as in those games. That's very unlikely
The Giants will need to acquire a decent WR  
AnnapolisMike : 3/13/2019 12:45 pm : link
The Giants have gone to 5 Superbowls with decent WR's. Plax probably being the best of them. Workman like WR's can get the job done in a well balanced offense.
RE: RE: and  
Thegratefulhead : 3/13/2019 12:46 pm : link
In comment 14332635 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:
In comment 14332630 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


0.

But your point is valid.



That Titans game was so bizarre with the weather. IDK you can use that as a measure of anything
If you are going to take circumstance it should also be noted that the Redskins and Cowboys were playing for nothing at the the time. We also lost 3 of those 4 games. Washington threw interceptions in their own territory twice and who was the QB? Colts game was the most encouraging to me other than the way the game ended, that was bad.
Jesus I had completely blocked that Titans game from memory  
Jints in Carolina : 3/13/2019 12:48 pm : link
It took me a few seconds to remember it.
RE: The Giants will need to acquire a decent WR  
gmenatlarge : 3/13/2019 12:49 pm : link
In comment 14332686 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
The Giants have gone to 5 Superbowls with decent WR's. Plax probably being the best of them. Workman like WR's can get the job done in a well balanced offense.


Nicks and Cruz were playing at a top level in 2011, remember the famous BB quote "This is still a Cruz/Nicks game!"
RE: Can Engram  
HomerJones45 : 3/13/2019 12:58 pm : link
In comment 14332664 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
stay healthy is a huge key next year. The lightbulb seemed to go on for him those last 4 games. I'm also curious if the Giants do go after a TE (one of the Iowa kids) at pick 17. T.J. Hockenson has been talked up by Dave Te. Said the Patriots are all over this kid and he's the next Mark Bavaro (which to me is like calling someone the next LT as a linebacker).

The Patriots have used TEs as a mismatch for years, and the Gronk/Hernandez duo was tremendous (I was gonna say deadly, but that was too easy). The Giants could do the same. Go defense with the first pick, get Hockenson with #17 and come back with a DL or OL in round 2.
Be a little careful of drawing conclusions from good performances in meaningless games at the end of the season. Coleman Zeno looked like a future star too.

That said, if I was Shurmur, I watch every film I can of the Colts and Eric Ebron to see how they were using Ebron and do as they did, and I am sure he will do just that.
I would argue  
joeinpa : 3/13/2019 1:00 pm : link
Tiki was a bigger part of that offense than Beckham has been.
Getting dizzy from the spin?  
ajr2456 : 3/13/2019 1:00 pm : link
.
His name is  
5BowlsSoon : 3/13/2019 1:04 pm : link
COREY COLEMAN
Draft day - ( New Window )
RE: Getting dizzy from the spin?  
crick n NC : 3/13/2019 1:07 pm : link
In comment 14332755 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
.


Don't you spin things to fit your arguments too?
RE: His name is  
Greg from LI : 3/13/2019 1:10 pm : link
In comment 14332771 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
COREY COLEMAN Draft day - ( New Window )


and he's a terrible NFL receiver
RE: The Giants will need to acquire a decent WR  
clatterbuck : 3/13/2019 1:11 pm : link
In comment 14332686 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
The Giants have gone to 5 Superbowls with decent WR's. Plax probably being the best of them. Workman like WR's can get the job done in a well balanced offense.


Nicks and Cruz were better than decent.
RE: RE: and  
BigBlueinChicago : 3/13/2019 1:12 pm : link
In comment 14332635 Now Mike in MD said:
Quote:
In comment 14332630 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


0.

But your point is valid.



That Titans game was so bizarre with the weather. IDK you can use that as a measure of anything


Really?

Why do some games get to count and not others?
RE: The Giants will need to acquire a decent WR  
Justlurking : 3/13/2019 1:15 pm : link
In comment 14332686 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
The Giants have gone to 5 Superbowls with decent WR's. Plax probably being the best of them. Workman like WR's can get the job done in a well balanced offense.


Plax, Nicks and Cruz were studs those years. Far beyond workmanlike
all I know  
giantfan2000 : 3/13/2019 1:15 pm : link
OBJ pretty much single handedly got us into playoffs in 2016
RE: To be realistic  
Leg of Theismann : 3/13/2019 1:16 pm : link
In comment 14332672 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Post the stats for 2018 with and without OBJ.

It doesn't matter what happened with different coaching staff.


What different coaching staff? They fired Shurmur mid-year??? LOL.
RE: RE: Getting dizzy from the spin?  
ajr2456 : 3/13/2019 1:18 pm : link
In comment 14332790 crick n NC said:
Quote:
In comment 14332755 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


.



Don't you spin things to fit your arguments too?


There's a difference between backing up your argument and taking things out of context to try to fit a narrative.

This offense, as currently constructed, is not better without Odell.
RE: I would argue  
Johnny5 : 3/13/2019 1:18 pm : link
In comment 14332752 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Tiki was a bigger part of that offense than Beckham has been.

And I'd be right there arguing that point alongside of you.... lol
RE: Over the last few years....  
jvm52106 : 3/13/2019 1:22 pm : link
In comment 14332651 Tesla said:
Quote:
we score something like 4-5 less points a game when Beckham was out.....so let's not lie to ourselves that our offense has been better without him on the field.


Previous to last year we didn't have Barkley. Let's not lie or forget about that...
RE: all I know  
jvm52106 : 3/13/2019 1:25 pm : link
In comment 14332828 giantfan2000 said:
Quote:
OBJ pretty much single handedly got us into playoffs in 2016


UMMM, NO! The Giants defense did as much or more for the overall team wins. OBJ was a huge factor in the loss in the playoffs..
STOP SPINNING THIS SHIT  
BleedBlue : 3/13/2019 1:27 pm : link
we are NOT better without OBJ. we traded this guy because he is a nut job, head case. talent wise, he is a top 3 in football at his position. we didnt get better by dumping that type of talent. we are MUCH MUCH worse. now lets try and turn those picks into a rebuild. if we miss, we will continue to suck without a HoF talent in OBJ. stop spinning this shit. it stings that we lost OBJ for such a low package but we need to move forward
RE: RE: all I know  
Pan-handler : 3/13/2019 1:41 pm : link
In comment 14332875 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 14332828 giantfan2000 said:


Quote:


OBJ pretty much single handedly got us into playoffs in 2016



UMMM, NO! The Giants defense did as much or more for the overall team wins. OBJ was a huge factor in the loss in the playoffs..


Exactly. That Offense spearheaded by McAdoo was pretty atrocious.
RE: I would argue  
Pan-handler : 3/13/2019 1:42 pm : link
In comment 14332752 joeinpa said:
Quote:
Tiki was a bigger part of that offense than Beckham has been.


Yes he was. He impact both the pass and the run game. And now we have a souped up version of him who is also a better team player.
RE: RE: I would argue  
ajr2456 : 3/13/2019 1:47 pm : link
In comment 14332969 Pan-handler said:
Quote:
In comment 14332752 joeinpa said:


Quote:


Tiki was a bigger part of that offense than Beckham has been.



Yes he was. He impact both the pass and the run game. And now we have a souped up version of him who is also a better team player.


What did they win with Tiki and no QB, and above average to very good WRs? And before you jump down my throat with "he had Eli", they didn't play together long enough.
RE: RE: RE: Getting dizzy from the spin?  
crick n NC : 3/13/2019 1:51 pm : link
In comment 14332842 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 14332790 crick n NC said:


Quote:


In comment 14332755 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


.



Don't you spin things to fit your arguments too?



There's a difference between backing up your argument and taking things out of context to try to fit a narrative.

This offense, as currently constructed, is not better without Odell.


Unless I missed it, the OP didn't say the giants are better by subtraction. His point to me is simply there is life after Odell (having a good offense again)

Beckham was a major player in which defenses had to use extra resources to defend. The giants have had good offenses before beckham and they will after Beckham.

Besides the stats he talks about in the OP are relevant. They don't necessarily prove anything, but it is data to be considered.
Whether they play better with or without OBJ can be debated  
Scuzzlebutt : 3/13/2019 1:53 pm : link
but the fact is OBJ never played a full season and he missed more games the past two years than he played. Also, the circumstances surrounding the last 4 games of last season that he missed are a bit suspect.
The last 4 games?  
Doomster : 3/13/2019 2:22 pm : link
Weren't they 1-3, with their lone victory over a Washington team that mailed it in the the first quarter and had some guy named Sanchez at QB?

They were shut out against the Titans......

There was no pressure on them to win.....the seasonwas over after game 8.....

RE: Whether they play better with or without OBJ can be debated  
Pan-handler : 3/13/2019 2:22 pm : link
In comment 14333020 Scuzzlebutt said:
Quote:
but the fact is OBJ never played a full season and he missed more games the past two years than he played. Also, the circumstances surrounding the last 4 games of last season that he missed are a bit suspect.


Without Saquon and a good OL when we lost Beckham things fell apart quickly. Its different now under Shurmur (better system than McAdoo, improved OL and a generational RB).

Losing OBJ stings but the offense has a pretty good chance of still being quite good.
RE: RE: all I know  
BillKo : 3/13/2019 3:17 pm : link
In comment 14332875 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 14332828 giantfan2000 said:


Quote:


OBJ pretty much single handedly got us into playoffs in 2016



UMMM, NO! The Giants defense did as much or more for the overall team wins. OBJ was a huge factor in the loss in the playoffs..


Yeah...I was going to say...we were a defensive team first in 2016.
RE: and  
bradshaw44 : 3/13/2019 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14332630 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
0.

But your point is valid.


That 0 came at the hands of a team that also shut down the world champion Patriots.
RE: To be realistic  
bradshaw44 : 3/13/2019 3:20 pm : link
In comment 14332672 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
Post the stats for 2018 with and without OBJ.

It doesn't matter what happened with different coaching staff.


Very good point.
RE: RE: To be realistic  
Pan-handler : 3/13/2019 3:24 pm : link
In comment 14333401 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
In comment 14332672 ZogZerg said:


Quote:


Post the stats for 2018 with and without OBJ.

It doesn't matter what happened with different coaching staff.



Very good point.


It does matter because Beckham was all that offense really had.

Barkley is already a better , more impactful player then Odell. Add in a better system, and a better OL (2nd half) you saw that we did more than just drown without him.
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