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Jordan Raanan reported on Sportscenter....

froggerjoe : 3/13/2019 2:49 pm
not sure if anybody saw Jordan Raanan on Sportcenter earlier....but he claims the Giants will "transition to a Gettleman-preferred run-first attack" post-Odell Beckham. Expect offense to face increase in 8+ man fronts with more 12 personnel due to severe WR shortage.
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RE: RE: RE: Great...  
Bill in UT : 3/13/2019 3:12 pm : link
In comment 14333334 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 14333324 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14333320 bw in dc said:


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This means we'll wear Barkley out sooner, rendering his selection at #2 more ridiculous.



Adrian Peterson just signed a two year extension at 33 years old.



Most running backs are not Adrian Peterson. He is a significant outlier.


Last I heard Barkley was a once in a lifetime player. How hard can he get hit while walking on water?
The RB Barkley seems to be most often compared to  
Mike from Ohio : 3/13/2019 3:13 pm : link
based on running style is Barry Sanders. Barry Sanders didn't play well into his 30s.

I know, different thing all together because Barry Sanders was the only star on a team bereft of talent, but...

Oh yeah.
Good GM's dont have a "preferred style"  
ajr2456 : 3/13/2019 3:13 pm : link
They mold the style and the additional roster pieces to compliment their talent.

Deciding "this is the style we want" regardless of what premier talent you have or is available is a recipe for getting fired.
RE: Good GM's dont have a  
The_Boss : 3/13/2019 3:16 pm : link
In comment 14333372 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
They mold the style and the additional roster pieces to compliment their talent.

Deciding "this is the style we want" regardless of what premier talent you have or is available is a recipe for getting fired.


We can only hope.
RE: The RB Barkley seems to be most often compared to  
Thegratefulhead : 3/13/2019 3:17 pm : link
In comment 14333370 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
based on running style is Barry Sanders. Barry Sanders didn't play well into his 30s.

I know, different thing all together because Barry Sanders was the only star on a team bereft of talent, but...

Oh yeah.
Sized differently. Barkley will be able to be productive after he loses some speed and quickness due to his size and power.
RE: you  
Hades07 : 3/13/2019 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14333260 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
mean we're not going to emphasize Jawill Davis?!!!?
See, now I saw this move and figured with Eli we going to run the read option in 2019.
RE: The RB Barkley seems to be most often compared to  
Thegratefulhead : 3/13/2019 3:18 pm : link
In comment 14333370 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
based on running style is Barry Sanders. Barry Sanders didn't play well into his 30s.

I know, different thing all together because Barry Sanders was the only star on a team bereft of talent, but...

Oh yeah.
Sanders was still productive when he retired...Just sayin'
RE: RE: Great...  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2019 3:19 pm : link
In comment 14333324 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14333320 bw in dc said:


Quote:


This means we'll wear Barkley out sooner, rendering his selection at #2 more ridiculous.



Adrian Peterson just signed a two year extension at 33 years old.


Most great RBs have long careers. The data supports it, anyone can go look up the history of first round picks. The ones that are great stay that way.
Boo fucking hoo  
Bluesbreaker : 3/13/2019 3:19 pm : link
Draft is deep at WR don't let the sky
hit you in the head .
Jordan Raanan is a national treasure.  
Mr. Bungle : 3/13/2019 3:19 pm : link
We're all lucky to be alive at the same time that he is.
When  
PaulN : 3/13/2019 3:20 pm : link
Beckham was the featured player on the team, which has been since his arrival, the team has sucked, now we have to pay him 19 mil per season, but it's a horrible idea to rid ourselves of this guy? Why? The team sucks with him as a featured player. Now that he is in Cleveland and they have a very good and young QB, with weapons an offensive line and a good defense, let's see what his contributions are going to be. So far as a team player he has been HORRIBLE, to be kind. If not for stupid Gettleman not getting Darnold and starting the rebuild last season he should be getting praised, but not here.

We upgraded the strong safety position for probably a quarter of the price, we ridded ourselves of huge contracts from featured players, like Snacks, Vernon, Collins, and Beckham since as featured players the team has sucked, they can do just as good without them, and they added key pieces to the team moving forward in this rebuild. This is what should have been started last season, so please, all the tears for Beckham, please spare me.
I've mentioned this over the last few weeks  
Go Terps : 3/13/2019 3:21 pm : link
- 12 personnel was a full YPA more efficient on passing plays in 2018
- Passing out of play action was better than passing from a straight drop back
- Passing to the RB out of the backfield on first down yielded something like a 9 YPA (for reference, Barkley averaged only 5.7 YPC which ranked 16th among RBs in the NFL)

These are the areas where Shurmur is supposed to be a big plus. Get this shit right.
Oh yeah that old ground and pound offense  
NoGainDayne : 3/13/2019 3:22 pm : link
it pairs so well with a horrific defense!
RE: Good GM's dont have a  
Bill L : 3/13/2019 3:22 pm : link
In comment 14333372 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
They mold the style and the additional roster pieces to compliment their talent.

Deciding "this is the style we want" regardless of what premier talent you have or is available is a recipe for getting fired.


The Cardinals alleged pursuit of Murray and jettisoning of Rosen notwithstanding.
Good think  
Dodge : 3/13/2019 3:24 pm : link
that Eli is a master of throwing into the flat.
RE: RE: We drafted Barkley  
jeff57 : 3/13/2019 3:24 pm : link
In comment 14333300 DonnieD89 said:
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In comment 14333293 Bill in UT said:


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To be a workhorse. Whether he takes a beating will depend on what kind of OL Gettlemam puts together. And I'd be looking at picking up a strong blocking FB and TE combo



Chime in TJ Hockenson at #17, if available. Can also help in the passing game, as well as blocking for Barkley.


Won’t be there probably. Reports are that Jacksonville and Detroit really like him at 7 and 8. So if the really want him they may have to take him at 6.
RE: Oh yeah that old ground and pound offense  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14333409 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
it pairs so well with a horrific defense!


Yeah, it does help sometimes.

See, there is also this stat called TOP, which keeps a bad defense off the field.
Strategy should be run-first and by committee  
Jimmy Googs : 3/13/2019 3:27 pm : link
What the hell is the point of putting undo mileage on Barkley.

But I am sure this is being all planned out accordingly with the brain trust running this storied-Franchise...

RE: RE: The RB Barkley seems to be most often compared to  
Mike from Ohio : 3/13/2019 3:29 pm : link
In comment 14333392 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 14333370 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


based on running style is Barry Sanders. Barry Sanders didn't play well into his 30s.

I know, different thing all together because Barry Sanders was the only star on a team bereft of talent, but...

Oh yeah.

Sanders was still productive when he retired...Just sayin'


And after five straight years of carrying the ball over 300 times, he had had enough and retired. The best way to prolong a RBs career is not to ride them as hard as possible for as long as possible.
Hockenson  
jeff57 : 3/13/2019 3:36 pm : link
A lot of prognosticators have him in the top 10.
Link - ( New Window )
...  
BleedBlue : 3/13/2019 3:37 pm : link
eli dinked and dunked with beckham...now?! lmao the offense is going to be bad. terps will make some excuse. the point is we got MUCH worse on offense without beckham. they prob should spend a high pick on one in 2019. any good free agent WRs in 2020? we will have a ton of space now
The goal shouldn't be to "prolong Barkley's career"  
Go Terps : 3/13/2019 3:39 pm : link
We know two things about RBs:

1. They frequently get injured because they touch the ball more than other players
2. They are easily replaced and not worth paying

Here are the veteran RB contracts in the NFL that are over $20M:

Gurley - $57.5M
Bell (signed yesterday) - $52.5M
Freeman - $41.25M
McCoy - $40M
D. Johnson - $39M
McKinnon - $30M
L. Miller - $26M

Do any of those contracts look like good deals to be involved in right now?

We should be wearing Barkley out now, because we shouldn't have much interest in paying him come contract time.
RE: RE: Oh yeah that old ground and pound offense  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/13/2019 3:41 pm : link
In comment 14333427 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 14333409 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:


it pairs so well with a horrific defense!



Yeah, it does help sometimes.

See, there is also this stat called TOP, which keeps a bad defense off the field.


TOP of possession is the most overrated stat in football. Analytically it means absolutely nothing.
Yeah, okay....  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2019 3:42 pm : link
Tell that to the 2007 Giants in the Superbowl.
Run first attack, lol  
UberAlias : 3/13/2019 3:43 pm : link
We got old guys thinking like old guys running this team.
Guy is destroying this franchise  
Rflairr : 3/13/2019 3:44 pm : link
.
Or the 2011 Superbowl for that matter.  
Britt in VA : 3/13/2019 3:44 pm : link
.
RE: Barkley is going to take a beating.  
djm : 3/13/2019 3:44 pm : link
In comment 14333256 Dave in Hoboken said:
Quote:
.


Because rbs in pass first offenses don’t take a beating am I right? Nope, I’m not right. And neither are you.
RE: Run first attack, lol  
Thegratefulhead : 3/13/2019 3:45 pm : link
In comment 14333498 UberAlias said:
Quote:
We got old guys thinking like old guys running this team.
Rams looked pretty good last year until Gurley's arthritis kicked in.
Let me guess  
djm : 3/13/2019 3:45 pm : link
We will never ever ever find a good or great young wr again. Just like qb.
RE: Guy is destroying this franchise  
jeff57 : 3/13/2019 3:45 pm : link
In comment 14333501 Rflairr said:
Quote:
.


You mean Reese is back?
Barkley 235 Lbs  
LeftHook : 3/13/2019 3:46 pm : link
Sanders was maybe 205 lbs. Emmit was around 220 if I'm not mistaken. Put a good Ol in front of Barkley, and this kid could be more dangerous then he is now. Plus he's a threat catching the ball.
RE: The goal shouldn't be to  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2019 3:49 pm : link
In comment 14333479 Go Terps said:
Quote:
We know two things about RBs:

1. They frequently get injured because they touch the ball more than other players
2. They are easily replaced and not worth paying

Here are the veteran RB contracts in the NFL that are over $20M:

Gurley - $57.5M
Bell (signed yesterday) - $52.5M
Freeman - $41.25M
McCoy - $40M
D. Johnson - $39M
McKinnon - $30M
L. Miller - $26M

Do any of those contracts look like good deals to be involved in right now?

We should be wearing Barkley out now, because we shouldn't have much interest in paying him come contract time.


And I’ll worry about that in a few years. That will be under a new CBA too, none of us have a clue how that will effect things.
Would not be surprising to also hear....  
thrunthrublue : 3/13/2019 3:50 pm : link
D.G. Insist on team wearing throwback leather helmets, and giants home games be broadcast in black and white.....
RE: Yeah, okay....  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/13/2019 3:53 pm : link
In comment 14333489 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
Tell that to the 2007 Giants in the Superbowl.


Don't believe me. Why don't you read up on it a little bit.

Quote:
No lie, the slope of this line is almost exactly 0. It's r^2 value is 0.00006 (1 is perfect). It's p-value is 0.94 (Less than 0.05 is usually considered good). It's essentially a random set of data.

A team with the second best run defense of the last three years won exactly 0 games. Two of the three teams with the worst run defenses of the last three years had winning records. The team with the best run defense of the last three years won 5 games. Run game success just doesn't matter.

Trying to win time of possession is dumb and stupid - ( New Window )
Uconn  
Go Terps : 3/13/2019 3:56 pm : link
The CBA impacts all teams; paying a running back a huge contract isn't going to make sense because of the atrophy and fungibility of the position. That's just the nature of it.
That’s flawed logic  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2019 3:56 pm : link
running the football allows you flexibility on offense. The goal shouldn’t be “become the #1 rushing team in the NFL” it should be “run it well to make life easier for all phases of the game”.

That stat doesn’t mean much to me. The eagles won the Super Bowl because the run opened up the pass. Tom brady leans heavily on his running backs. Seattle is a much different team when running well. The Colts running game allowed the defense to excel and took pressure off Luck.

Just watch the games.
RE: Uconn  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2019 3:58 pm : link
In comment 14333560 Go Terps said:
Quote:
The CBA impacts all teams; paying a running back a huge contract isn't going to make sense because of the atrophy and fungibility of the position. That's just the nature of it.


I’m not disputing that. I’m simply saying we don’t know how the new CBA will work so I’ll worry about paying or not paying Barkley at that time. I also happen to thjnk he isn’t just a RB but that’s another convo. Will be interesting to see how he’s used moving forward.
RE: That’s flawed logic  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/13/2019 3:58 pm : link
In comment 14333561 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
running the football allows you flexibility on offense. The goal shouldn’t be “become the #1 rushing team in the NFL” it should be “run it well to make life easier for all phases of the game”.

That stat doesn’t mean much to me. The eagles won the Super Bowl because the run opened up the pass. Tom brady leans heavily on his running backs. Seattle is a much different team when running well. The Colts running game allowed the defense to excel and took pressure off Luck.

Just watch the games.


Understand what your saying. I'm just saying the TOP doesn't mean much at all. The numbers don't lie. There is no difference between the two charts if you look at them.
So then why the fuck  
SHO'NUFF : 3/13/2019 4:03 pm : link
did we hire Pat Shurmur?
RE: So then why the fuck  
ajr2456 : 3/13/2019 4:11 pm : link
In comment 14333597 SHO'NUFF said:
Quote:
did we hire Pat Shurmur?


Gotta have someone to blame besides the QB and GM
Another thing I don't get:  
81_Great_Dane : 3/13/2019 4:49 pm : link
NFL rules don't favor the run-first, ground-and-pound, smashmouth approach. The rule changes have tilted the game toward passing. The advantage that gives a run-first, power-football attack is that most teams don't have the personnel or schemes to defend it, because they almost never see it. So it could be so old-school that it's ready for a comeback.

I just don't see that as a winning strategy in today's NFL -- unless you have a defense that consistently holds opponents to around 10 points a game. And the Giants are nowhere close to that. If that's the goal, ok, sure, that's a plan. But it's going to take a while to get there.
RE: Another thing I don't get:  
jeff57 : 3/13/2019 4:50 pm : link
In comment 14333871 81_Great_Dane said:
Quote:
NFL rules don't favor the run-first, ground-and-pound, smashmouth approach. The rule changes have tilted the game toward passing. The advantage that gives a run-first, power-football attack is that most teams don't have the personnel or schemes to defend it, because they almost never see it. So it could be so old-school that it's ready for a comeback.

I just don't see that as a winning strategy in today's NFL -- unless you have a defense that consistently holds opponents to around 10 points a game. And the Giants are nowhere close to that. If that's the goal, ok, sure, that's a plan. But it's going to take a while to get there.


Ravens got to the playoffs with it
RE: RE: Another thing I don't get:  
mikeinbloomfield : 3/13/2019 4:52 pm : link
In comment 14333879 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 14333871 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


NFL rules don't favor the run-first, ground-and-pound, smashmouth approach. The rule changes have tilted the game toward passing. The advantage that gives a run-first, power-football attack is that most teams don't have the personnel or schemes to defend it, because they almost never see it. So it could be so old-school that it's ready for a comeback.

I just don't see that as a winning strategy in today's NFL -- unless you have a defense that consistently holds opponents to around 10 points a game. And the Giants are nowhere close to that. If that's the goal, ok, sure, that's a plan. But it's going to take a while to get there.



Ravens got to the playoffs with it


Well, they also have a QB who's a threat to run and as usual a dominant defense. The Giants will have neither next year. And there are exceptions to everything.
RE: RE: Another thing I don't get:  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2019 5:06 pm : link
In comment 14333879 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 14333871 81_Great_Dane said:


Quote:


NFL rules don't favor the run-first, ground-and-pound, smashmouth approach. The rule changes have tilted the game toward passing. The advantage that gives a run-first, power-football attack is that most teams don't have the personnel or schemes to defend it, because they almost never see it. So it could be so old-school that it's ready for a comeback.

I just don't see that as a winning strategy in today's NFL -- unless you have a defense that consistently holds opponents to around 10 points a game. And the Giants are nowhere close to that. If that's the goal, ok, sure, that's a plan. But it's going to take a while to get there.



Ravens got to the playoffs with it



And ate dirt the first time they had an opponent scout and adjust to them in a second matchup.
There’s nothing wrong with a run first pass second  
jeff57 : 3/13/2019 5:09 pm : link
Philosophy. But you gave to have the right pieces for it.
RE: RE: RE: Great...  
lax counsel : 3/13/2019 5:15 pm : link
In comment 14333394 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 14333324 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


In comment 14333320 bw in dc said:


Quote:


This means we'll wear Barkley out sooner, rendering his selection at #2 more ridiculous.



Adrian Peterson just signed a two year extension at 33 years old.



Most great RBs have long careers. The data supports it, anyone can go look up the history of first round picks. The ones that are great stay that way.


Which ones? Because there are few that were great that fell off a cliff by 29-31. The running back, by design, gets hit more than any other position in the game, which is why the shelf lives are shorter.
Adrian Peterson is a physical marvel  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2019 5:18 pm : link
There's plenty of historic reference to show that runningbacks fall off a cliff at a ballpark figure of a certain number of carries. Just cherrypicking the one or two genetic freaks isn't a sound argument.

DG gameplan  
uther99 : 3/13/2019 5:20 pm : link
PS - cant wait to terrorize defenses with OBJ and Barkley

DG -


RE: Barkley is looking to be a significant outlier right now, too.  
lax counsel : 3/13/2019 5:21 pm : link
In comment 14333337 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
.


Why, because you say so? Because this is Giants land and we are the exception to rule? Percentages are stacked against him being productive into his 30s.
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