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Giants are #1 in dead money and #32 in tive salary

MM_in_NYC : 3/13/2019 5:37 pm
Now this is cap management! See link below. I'm operating under presumption this site was not updated based on Jet's recent signings. Even if that is not true however there are still just #31 in active salary and #1 in dead money.

Now I've only managed a football franchise in Madden (that's a joke, folks) but I'm pretty sure this is not a good way to do things.

Of course saving grace is we can defer salary to next year - but this speaks to one conclusion - there is no expectation to win this year from management.

And extending that to the draft you have to wonder if that influences how the evaluate for risk for drafting a QB and having them sit.

On one hand I tend to think this means they will view it as the right time to strike for a QB. On the other, this could mean they think our draft position will be at worst the same next year, and thus they will be well positioned again to get a QB, in what I believe is considered a better QB class - and therefore this is the year to build other pieces and make the team stronger for a rookie QB next year.


First post so be nice. (Kidding again)
NFL Salary Cap Space - ( New Window )
I mean if there's one silver ling in this mess  
madeinstars : 3/13/2019 5:39 pm : link
It's that we seem to understand that it's best to have all your dead cap space in one season. Let's just hope they go all in and trade Jenkins and cut Ogletree next.
we're getting 2019 as an Eli Manning retirement tour  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2019 5:39 pm : link
Watch if you want to see Barkley occasionally do something amazing, but they're a 3rd place finish at best.
Oy, that should be...  
MM_in_NYC : 3/13/2019 5:39 pm : link
..and #32 in active salary
I've seen monkey shit fights ar the zoo  
Paulie Walnuts : 3/13/2019 5:40 pm : link
That are more organized than the New York Football Giants
"Boy, they really mismanaged their personnel"  
j_rud : 3/13/2019 5:41 pm : link
-Marc Ross
Jerry Reese,  
Red Dog : 3/13/2019 5:41 pm : link
the gift that just keeps on giving.
We are clearly in full rebuild mode  
Jay on the Island : 3/13/2019 5:41 pm : link
Eat all the dead money this year and develop the young kids. Next offseason they will have a ton of cap room to fill holes before they add their next QB in the draft.
But but but  
TommyWiseau : 3/13/2019 5:42 pm : link
I was told Kevin Abrams is the best in the business at working the cap!!

He is just another NY Giants Front Officr shill
Kind of makes sense ...  
DonQuixote : 3/13/2019 5:42 pm : link
If you are selling off your assets, you will have a lot of dead money.

If you are mostly buying assets, you won't.
RE: we're getting 2019 as an Eli Manning retirement tour  
mikeinbloomfield : 3/13/2019 5:42 pm : link
In comment 14334114 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Watch if you want to see Barkley occasionally do something amazing, but they're a 3rd place finish at best.


Third place! WITH Vernon and Collins last year we were next to last in sacks. I don't think Case Keenum is going to have too much trouble beating us next year when he has all day to throw.
I honestly  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/13/2019 5:42 pm : link
wonder if we've set a record for dead money. We have to be close.
RE: I've seen monkey shit fights ar the zoo  
markky : 3/13/2019 5:43 pm : link
In comment 14334122 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
That are more organized than the New York Football Giants


laughed out loud at this!
who cares?  
Platos : 3/13/2019 5:43 pm : link
honestly who cares? shit happens. we're rebuilding, be excited that we'll basically have a brand new team in 2 seasons max...

i don't get it with you guys its like you own stock in the company.
RE: Jerry Reese,  
NoGainDayne : 3/13/2019 5:43 pm : link
In comment 14334129 Red Dog said:
Quote:
the gift that just keeps on giving.


Yeah because Jerry Reese gave us Ommameh and OBJ, huge sources of dead money.
This too will pass.  
Red Dog : 3/13/2019 5:44 pm : link
In a couple more years the sun will be shining again.

This is kind of like being commode hugging drunk after a major drinking binge. Eventually you will feel better.
RE: Kind of makes sense ...  
MM_in_NYC : 3/13/2019 5:45 pm : link
Quote:

DonQuixote : 5:42 pm : link : reply
If you are selling off your assets, you will have a lot of dead money.

If you are mostly buying assets, you won't.


Sure, of course. But the other side of that coin is the low active salary. Not spending a cent on a decent FA signing adds an additional dimension and is what cements the full rebuild vantage.
Pretty clearly the worst run franchise in the NFL  
Tesla : 3/13/2019 5:46 pm : link
at this point. At the end of 2019 we will almost certainly have the worst record from 2017-19.

And just traded away a generational WR for a hot dog and a bag of donuts.
Eric  
bronxct1 : 3/13/2019 5:48 pm : link
The browns had $47,788,765 dead and the 49ers had 41,823,179 in 2017 so they're not even close to a record in dead money.
RE:  
Paulie Walnuts : 3/13/2019 5:49 pm : link
In comment 14334124 j_rud said:
Quote:
-Marc Ross
fuck that assclown
we now have Sausage and Peppers at Safety  
Paulie Walnuts : 3/13/2019 5:50 pm : link
and jack Schitt at WR
RE: who cares  
MM_in_NYC : 3/13/2019 5:51 pm : link
Quote:

Platos : 5:43 pm : link : reply
honestly who cares? shit happens. we're rebuilding, be excited that we'll basically have a brand new team in 2 seasons max...

i don't get it with you guys its like you own stock in the company.


Well I guess I care and a few other folks care, too. Speaking generally, I care about how well the Giants handle the cap. And I'd guess you do to, if you're an informed fan, which I assume you are.

Regardless, two things.

One, you're point is silly that we should be excited for being good in two years from. That implies you're sure we'll be good in two years - which is far from sure. And that also implies we should be excited that managements expects to tank for the next few years. Wow - exciting!

Two, the second point of the post was to examine how the cap situation could impact how the team's plans will impact the draft. So yes, I am excited to be discussing the draft and how that will impact the team over the next two years.
RE: Pretty clearly the worst run franchise in the NFL  
Geomon : 3/13/2019 5:52 pm : link
In comment 14334158 Tesla said:
Quote:
at this point. At the end of 2019 we will almost certainly have the worst record from 2017-19.

And just traded away a generational WR for a hot dog and a bag of donuts.

I am so fucking tired of hearing this shit. Last time I checked, a first round pick isn't a hot dog or a bag of donuts unless you're a fucking moron.
Oh Please  
afann : 3/13/2019 5:53 pm : link
How much of that belongs to Vernon and OBJ?
RE: This too will pass.  
Vinny from Danbury : 3/13/2019 5:53 pm : link
In comment 14334149 Red Dog said:
Quote:
In a couple more years the sun will be shining again.

This is kind of like being commode hugging drunk after a major drinking binge. Eventually you will feel better.


With this shitty front-office, odds are we'll be far worse in 2 years. Bank on it. There's no guarantees they can turn it around. None have a proven track record of being able to do that. The only track record they have is in mismanagement of the teams the work for, and being fired because of it.
RE: RE: Pretty clearly the worst run franchise in the NFL  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2019 5:54 pm : link
In comment 14334187 Geomon said:
Quote:
In comment 14334158 Tesla said:


Quote:


at this point. At the end of 2019 we will almost certainly have the worst record from 2017-19.

And just traded away a generational WR for a hot dog and a bag of donuts.


I am so fucking tired of hearing this shit. Last time I checked, a first round pick isn't a hot dog or a bag of donuts unless you're a fucking moron.


Depends on the quality of the draft. If it's a shitty draft class and the first round pick turns into Ereck Flowers, then yes it is.
I think Buffalo  
Chip : 3/13/2019 5:56 pm : link
had 53 mil last year.
RE: RE: Kind of makes sense ...  
DonQuixote : 3/13/2019 5:57 pm : link
In comment 14334154 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:


Quote:



DonQuixote : 5:42 pm : link : reply
If you are selling off your assets, you will have a lot of dead money.

If you are mostly buying assets, you won't.




Sure, of course. But the other side of that coin is the low active salary. Not spending a cent on a decent FA signing adds an additional dimension and is what cements the full rebuild vantage.


Well yeah, but it's the other side of the same coin and you can't have heads and tails at the same time...

I'm no expert but you only have three categories, the money you are spending on players that are on your team (active salary), the money you are spending on players no longer on your team (dead money) and the cap space that remains. Since these three must add up to the salary cap, they are not independent observations. Meaning, if you have a lot of dead money, you are automatically having less cap space and/or less active salary, by definition.

The Giants are sellers, so they have their salaries going to players on other teams. It is not mismanagement, it is just where the team is in the rebuild.
Yeah but Jerry Reese did give us  
Red Dog : 3/13/2019 5:58 pm : link
Vernon, Snacks, Flowers, John Jerry, Marshall Outhouse, Justin Pugh, Ryan Nassib, JPP, Damontre Moore, Marvin Austin, Markus Kuhn, J.T. Thomas, Larry Donnell, Jerrell Jernigan, Travis Beckum, James Brewer, and a massive cast of others who contributed to building this problem in one way or another. You have to take a long view on this.
RE: Yeah but Jerry Reese did give us  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2019 5:59 pm : link
In comment 14334212 Red Dog said:
Quote:
Vernon, Snacks, Flowers, John Jerry, Marshall Outhouse, Justin Pugh, Ryan Nassib, JPP, Damontre Moore, Marvin Austin, Markus Kuhn, J.T. Thomas, Larry Donnell, Jerrell Jernigan, Travis Beckum, James Brewer, and a massive cast of others who contributed to building this problem in one way or another. You have to take a long view on this.


They're all gone now.

Blaming other people is over.
We're NUMBER 1!  
David B. : 3/13/2019 5:59 pm : link
We're NUMBER 1!

and the last in tive! See how we shive! We're the last in tive!
2020  
Biteymax22 : 3/13/2019 6:03 pm : link
That’s what everything is lining up for. This year is the Eli farewell tour / Saquon wins the rushing title. Still win < 5 games.
RE: RE: RE: Kind of makes sense ...  
Vinny from Danbury : 3/13/2019 6:06 pm : link
In comment 14334210 DonQuixote said:
Quote:

The Giants are sellers, so they have their salaries going to players on other teams. It is not mismanagement, it is just where the team is in the rebuild.


hahaha... If you think that paying players to play for other teams is NOT a sign of mismanagement, than you are a special kind of stupid. lol...
RE: RE: RE: RE: Kind of makes sense ...  
DonQuixote : 3/13/2019 6:09 pm : link
In comment 14334246 Vinny from Danbury said:
Quote:
In comment 14334210 DonQuixote said:


Quote:



The Giants are sellers, so they have their salaries going to players on other teams. It is not mismanagement, it is just where the team is in the rebuild.



hahaha... If you think that paying players to play for other teams is NOT a sign of mismanagement, than you are a special kind of stupid. lol...


I can assure you that I am not stupid. If your team has a lot of high priced veterans, and you sell them off in a single season, you will have dead money.

Are you saying you would rather not have sold off those players, fine. But I want a rebuild and it is happening and it is hardly stupid to understand the numbers.
the fact that we are #1 in dead money is an inditement of the past  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/13/2019 6:12 pm : link
and a positive statement about the present. We are getting rid of the bad contracts and taking our medicine. There is no way we were going to be any good this year. This is what we have to do to have a future as opposed to a lucky season where you barely sneak into the playoffs.
and BTW if you are #1 in dead money  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/13/2019 6:14 pm : link
then you will be #32 in live, until the NFL expands again.
RE the fact that we are #1 in dead money is an inditement of the past  
MM_in_NYC : 3/13/2019 6:28 pm : link
Quote:

Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 6:12 pm : link : reply
and a positive statement about the present. We are getting rid of the bad contracts and taking our medicine. There is no way we were going to be any good this year. This is what we have to do to have a future as opposed to a lucky season where you barely sneak into the playoffs.


Gonna have to disagree with you on getting rid of bad contracts. OBJ was a great contract. OV was mediocre. Neither were horrible. Eli on $23MM is horrible yet we kept his contract. That should be renegotiated or we should let him walk.

The problem last year was the o-line killed us in the first half of the season and as such fixing that o-line this offseason could have easily catapulted us to playoffs. But we just completely dismantled the entire team AND spent nothing in FA (yet) and didn't even giving fixing the o-line a chance. Don't forget our defense was considered top 10 at beginning of last year.

Team's have routinely shown in the past two decades that in the salary cap era you don't have to completely dismantle in order to turn things around but that's what we've done.
RE: Yeah but Jerry Reese did give us  
NoGainDayne : 3/13/2019 6:29 pm : link
In comment 14334212 Red Dog said:
Quote:
Vernon, Snacks, Flowers, John Jerry, Marshall Outhouse, Justin Pugh, Ryan Nassib, JPP, Damontre Moore, Marvin Austin, Markus Kuhn, J.T. Thomas, Larry Donnell, Jerrell Jernigan, Travis Beckum, James Brewer, and a massive cast of others who contributed to building this problem in one way or another. You have to take a long view on this.


Many of these players have no affect on our dead money this year.
RE: the fact that we are #1 in dead money is an inditement of the past  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2019 6:31 pm : link
In comment 14334275 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:
Quote:
and a positive statement about the present. We are getting rid of the bad contracts and taking our medicine. There is no way we were going to be any good this year. This is what we have to do to have a future as opposed to a lucky season where you barely sneak into the playoffs.


The current GM signed Beckham to that deal, then spun around and created 16m in wasted money. That's not "the past".
so  
Platos : 3/13/2019 6:42 pm : link
Quote:
RE: who cares
MM_in_NYC : 5:51 pm : link : reply
Quote:

Platos : 5:43 pm : link : reply
honestly who cares? shit happens. we're rebuilding, be excited that we'll basically have a brand new team in 2 seasons max...

i don't get it with you guys its like you own stock in the company.


Well I guess I care and a few other folks care, too. Speaking generally, I care about how well the Giants handle the cap. And I'd guess you do to, if you're an informed fan, which I assume you are.

Regardless, two things.

One, you're point is silly that we should be excited for being good in two years from. That implies you're sure we'll be good in two years - which is far from sure. And that also implies we should be excited that managements expects to tank for the next few years. Wow - exciting!

Two, the second point of the post was to examine how the cap situation could impact how the team's plans will impact the draft. So yes, I am excited to be discussing the draft and how that will impact the team over the next two years.


we're going to have 100+ mill free in 2020. shit happens you have to bite the bullet sometimes. what are you going to do ask players for the money back?

THE TEAMS BEEN A SHIT SHOW SINCE 2011!!! whats a little more shit? at least now we're making moves instead of sitting on DEAD CONTRACTS OF PLAYERS WHO AREN'T PERFORMING. would that have been better? keep vernon/snacks/collins/etc to give us the illusion that we have a shot???

the team tried to compete all these years and its shown it can't. its time to sell and start over. the years of bad drafts caught up. we have no depth. we've never built a line from the ground up since the Arcosi years and even that took some time to get decent.

it is what it is. lets get a bunch of young talent and see what we can do going forward.
question  
Platos : 3/13/2019 6:44 pm : link
was the dead money this year supposed to help us make the playoffs or something?

do you not understand how badly this team was put together?

rip the fuckin bandaid off and move on.
RE: I mean if there's one silver ling in this mess  
Rflairr : 3/13/2019 6:53 pm : link
In comment 14334113 madeinstars said:
Quote:
It's that we seem to understand that it's best to have all your dead cap space in one season. Let's just hope they go all in and trade Jenkins and cut Ogletree next.


Ok to get rid of everyone but the biggest problem with the cap. ELI
RE: question  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2019 6:59 pm : link
In comment 14334399 Platos said:
Quote:
was the dead money this year supposed to help us make the playoffs or something?

do you not understand how badly this team was put together?



Clearly they didn't know themselves, because the whole point is it should've been done a year ago. Now you and I have to wait two years for football games that matter.
To have so much dead money is sobering  
Frank from CA : 3/13/2019 8:58 pm : link
Just another year of ramifications from bad decisions. The disgust is real, because it did not have to happen. The front office failed in a big way and now my beloved Giants have taken the place of the Browns as most poorly run and laying body blows on its fans. Some people say: "who cares?". I do because an organized professional front office should not make a series of terrible deals, draft poorly and acquire non helpful players. This is exactly what the Giants did in the Seventies. Ownership did not learn its lesson. They can be smarter with how they deal players and manage the cap. There is little use in rooting for a team that is not interested in being efficient and well run. The scouting of O Line has been awful for a decade. Spend money on scouts who actually want to their job. To lead in dead money is not a symptom of reconstruction, it is a disgusting level of incompetence. I have little faith in this rebuild and am sick of explaining to people why my beloved Giants want to lead the league in terrible play and terrible front office decisions.

The year we signed the four defensive free agents many on this board defended it as necessary due to bad drafts. The same bad drafts they though were acceptable. Now they want me to believe dead money is a by product of reconstructing the roster. The reality is that you have no cap room to acquire players and you are pushing improvement down the road for three years waiting for young guys to develop. A better idea is to continually acquire young talent and let older guys walk. Acquisition happens with un-drafted, drafted and value FA signings. Never overpay for a player.
RE: RE: the fact that we are #1 in dead money is an inditement of the past  
christian : 3/13/2019 9:04 pm : link
In comment 14334347 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 14334275 Peter from NH (formerly CT) said:


Quote:


and a positive statement about the present. We are getting rid of the bad contracts and taking our medicine. There is no way we were going to be any good this year. This is what we have to do to have a future as opposed to a lucky season where you barely sneak into the playoffs.



The current GM signed Beckham to that deal, then spun around and created 16m in wasted money. That's not "the past".


Blaming Reese has become such a default, he gets blamed for contracts he didn't negotiate.

I commend Gettleman for cutting his losses on his mistakes -- that takes a smart man. Not making the mistakes in the first place would indicate some wisdom.

I'm cobbling together the details for a thread right now, but suffice to say the value and cost of last offseason isn't pretty.
I must admit, DG is getting better.......  
Doomster : 3/13/2019 9:25 pm : link
Thus far, he has over 33M in dead money this year.....

That is MUCH BETTER than the almost 44M he had last year.....

You guys do know what dead money is right? It's money you can't spend!!!!!!
RE: I must admit, DG is getting better.......  
section125 : 3/13/2019 9:32 pm : link
In comment 14334891 Doomster said:
Quote:
Thus far, he has over 33M in dead money this year.....

That is MUCH BETTER than the almost 44M he had last year.....

You guys do know what dead money is right? It's money you can't spend!!!!!!


It also clears the books on useless players....
This Franchise continues to hit new highs  
Jimmy Googs : 3/13/2019 9:44 pm : link
in lows during the decade.

I will always be a fan but anybody involved in decision-making for this franchise for the recent memory should be ashamed of themselves...
RE: RE: I must admit, DG is getting better.......  
christian : 3/13/2019 9:48 pm : link
In comment 14334911 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 14334891 Doomster said:


Quote:


Thus far, he has over 33M in dead money this year.....

That is MUCH BETTER than the almost 44M he had last year.....

You guys do know what dead money is right? It's money you can't spend!!!!!!



It also clears the books on useless players....


The dead money for the New York Giants this year is largely:

Odell Beckham $16,000,000
Olivier Vernon $8,000,000
Damon Harrison $3,200,000
Patrick Omameh $3,000,000
Eli Apple $2,304,968

I'm not sure "useless" describes any of those guys outside of Omameh.
Let’s not discuss how much cap room they will have next year  
djm : 3/13/2019 10:00 pm : link
And beyond.

I guess DG should have kept that 2014-2017 team together as long as possible.

What's our cap money for next year and the year after?  
montanagiant : 3/13/2019 10:00 pm : link
Pretty damn good
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