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OBJ: Was it better to resign him?

WhoCares : 3/13/2019 6:20 pm
I hear lots of people saying that we should not have resigned him if we didn't want him in the first place. But we actually got value from trading him. I know the giants now have dead money as a result of the trade but I would rather have the extra picks + Peppers than just release OBJ + compensation picks.

Am I missing something?
We weren't going to  
BigBlueDownTheShore : 3/13/2019 6:22 pm : link
just release him
If we didn't resign him  
Chip : 3/13/2019 6:22 pm : link
no 1st round pick
if we weren't going to just release him  
WhoCares : 3/13/2019 6:23 pm : link
then what was the other option?
RE: if we weren't going to just release him  
ron mexico : 3/13/2019 6:24 pm : link
In comment 14334316 WhoCares said:
Quote:
then what was the other option?


Trade him last summer
RE: if we weren't going to just release him  
Giantology : 3/13/2019 6:24 pm : link
In comment 14334316 WhoCares said:
Quote:
then what was the other option?


To trade him?
nope  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 3/13/2019 6:24 pm : link
but the big second guess is when to trade him and how much more you would have gotten at a different time. Of course, he was injured so who knows what would have been the right time.
trade him at the end of his contract?  
WhoCares : 3/13/2019 6:26 pm : link
I argue that we would have received far less value
We probably wouldn't have gotten nearly as much for him when  
Ira : 3/13/2019 6:26 pm : link
he was unsigned.
Forget for a second what you think of OBJ as a person or a palyer  
Ten Ton Hammer : 3/13/2019 6:26 pm : link
On simple logic, the issue people should be taking is that this franchise refuses to make hard decisions when they should.

Either move on from Eli or don't.
Either rebuild or try to win.
Either clean house and TC and Reese go, or stay the course.

They knew what Beckham was when they signed him. That's on them. If they didn't like what they saw, they should have traded him and made 2018 the rebuild year.

At every turn, they have make half-gestures and it continues to set them back. They don't want to make hard choices until they're pushed or they have no options left.

Even now, they're trading for 29 year olds and paying big money and multiple years to 30 year olds, and they wasted two years of Saquon Barkley's rookie contract because it took them a year to figure out they're not close and they need to cut their entire defense.

You think Saquon Barkley isn't going to want to be paid like a top 3 RB? Think that's gonna be cheap?
I think it seems like they wanted to keep him  
BillT : 3/13/2019 6:27 pm : link
But he did enough dumb stuff, after being made the highest paid WR in football, to sour the relationship and so he's gone.
Top Tenn Hammer has it right  
MM_in_NYC : 3/13/2019 6:36 pm : link
Management completely misjudged last year and went for a win it all mentality, including drafting a running back #2 - and then completely gave up this year and went into full rebuild. Unless we absolutely crush the next two drafts this franchise has been set back tremendously. It's painful.
Ten Ton Hammer, that is  
MM_in_NYC : 3/13/2019 6:36 pm : link
:)
RE: Top Tenn Hammer has it right  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2019 6:40 pm : link
In comment 14334362 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
Management completely misjudged last year and went for a win it all mentality, including drafting a running back #2 - and then completely gave up this year and went into full rebuild. Unless we absolutely crush the next two drafts this franchise has been set back tremendously. It's painful.


Weren’t we set back far enough, how much further can it go?

So dramatic. The reason to sign Beckham proved to be wrong but I think we got lucky and it turned out ok since his dead cap this year won’t matter since we are going to suck anyway. And then we get picksnon top of it.

The trade doesn’t match Beckham’s peak value but it’s not some terrible deal.
RE: Forget for a second what you think of OBJ as a person or a palyer  
Mad Mike : 3/13/2019 6:40 pm : link
In comment 14334328 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
They knew what Beckham was when they signed him. That's on them. If they didn't like what they saw, they should have traded him and made 2018 the rebuild year.

That's so frustrating. I thought it made sense to sign him, and I think it was a mistake to trade him. But given that they did trade him, it's hard to understand what they were thinking when they signed him. You more or less knew what you were getting with him, if you don't have the stomach for it, don't order it.
Should  
TommyWiseau : 3/13/2019 6:41 pm : link
have moved him for the 4th overall last year from Cleveland. Could have drafted Darnold at 2 (Jets were going QB, Josh Allen..if Mayfield and Darnold were gone) and taken Barkley at 4.
@Uconn - you're missing the crux of the point  
MM_in_NYC : 3/13/2019 6:50 pm : link
Quote:

RE: Top Tenn Hammer has it right
UConn4523 : 6:40 pm : link : reply
In comment 14334362 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
Management completely misjudged last year and went for a win it all mentality, including drafting a running back #2 - and then completely gave up this year and went into full rebuild. Unless we absolutely crush the next two drafts this franchise has been set back tremendously. It's painful.


Weren’t we set back far enough, how much further can it go?

So dramatic. The reason to sign Beckham proved to be wrong but I think we got lucky and it turned out ok since his dead cap this year won’t matter since we are going to suck anyway. And then we get picksnon top of it.

The trade doesn’t match Beckham’s peak value but it’s not some terrible deal.


It was not only the Beckham contract. It was a series of decisions they made - which when totaled together and then coupled with swinging around a complete 180 into a rebuild the very next year mean that we are in a tremendous hole that will be quite hard to dig out of without major draft success.

You say that's dramatic, but how else do you describe trading your best player and likely HOFer? I'm just framing it for what it is. You may wish it were otherwise but it's not. Commenters here aren't creating the drama, the Giants are.
Franchise Tag  
kdog77 : 3/13/2019 6:54 pm : link
2018 was OBJ's 5th year and Giants could have exercised the option on his rookie contract for 1 year @ $8.5M. He would have played 2018 for big contract extension or FA in 2019, but Giants could still have put Franchise Tag on him (figure $16-$19/M for 1 year) and then trade him to Browns or another team with cap space.

This crap cap situation is 100% on Mara/Tisch. They don't know what they want and are indecisive. Even if OBJ held out the Giants would still have all the leverage.
Same way Dee Ford was just traded  
rasbutant : 3/13/2019 7:01 pm : link
.
Think we did the right thing,  
TMS : 3/13/2019 7:04 pm : link
He was not happy here anymore and wanted to move on. Would not go into the reasons for that because it is his business. MO.
Trade him for what last summer?  
Matt M. : 3/13/2019 7:06 pm : link
Nobody was giving up what we just got for the final year of his contract and no guarantee of re-signing him.
RE: Forget for a second what you think of OBJ as a person or a palyer  
Hades07 : 3/13/2019 7:38 pm : link
In comment 14334328 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
On simple logic, the issue people should be taking is that this franchise refuses to make hard decisions when they should.

Either move on from Eli or don't.
Either rebuild or try to win.
Either clean house and TC and Reese go, or stay the course.

They knew what Beckham was when they signed him. That's on them. If they didn't like what they saw, they should have traded him and made 2018 the rebuild year.

At every turn, they have make half-gestures and it continues to set them back. They don't want to make hard choices until they're pushed or they have no options left.

Even now, they're trading for 29 year olds and paying big money and multiple years to 30 year olds, and they wasted two years of Saquon Barkley's rookie contract because it took them a year to figure out they're not close and they need to cut their entire defense.

You think Saquon Barkley isn't going to want to be paid like a top 3 RB? Think that's gonna be cheap?
Isn't he already paid like a top 5 RB? I don't follow contracts, so I am just asking. I seem to recall someone saying last season that as a rookie he is being paid among the top 5 RBs in the league.
Dead money  
djm : 3/13/2019 8:01 pm : link
Gives sports fans the vapors.
RE: @Uconn - you're missing the crux of the point  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2019 8:07 pm : link
In comment 14334410 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:


Quote:



RE: Top Tenn Hammer has it right
UConn4523 : 6:40 pm : link : reply
In comment 14334362 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
Management completely misjudged last year and went for a win it all mentality, including drafting a running back #2 - and then completely gave up this year and went into full rebuild. Unless we absolutely crush the next two drafts this franchise has been set back tremendously. It's painful.


Weren’t we set back far enough, how much further can it go?

So dramatic. The reason to sign Beckham proved to be wrong but I think we got lucky and it turned out ok since his dead cap this year won’t matter since we are going to suck anyway. And then we get picksnon top of it.

The trade doesn’t match Beckham’s peak value but it’s not some terrible deal.




It was not only the Beckham contract. It was a series of decisions they made - which when totaled together and then coupled with swinging around a complete 180 into a rebuild the very next year mean that we are in a tremendous hole that will be quite hard to dig out of without major draft success.

You say that's dramatic, but how else do you describe trading your best player and likely HOFer? I'm just framing it for what it is. You may wish it were otherwise but it's not. Commenters here aren't creating the drama, the Giants are.


You said we’ve been set back tremendously. My response was how much further back can we go? Eli is the last piece that needs to fall, until that happens we aren’t really moving forward fully. That should happen today but I doubt it, so that means we will win a handful of games, have a top pick next year and a ton of cap - that isn’t going further back that’s taking a giant step forward.
Yea  
djm : 3/13/2019 8:08 pm : link
The giants are idiots for not trading Beckham when he was injured and unsigned.

Love that one. Also love complaining that the giants should either move on from Eli or not. Things is They aren’t. You just hate this.
RE: Uconn  
MM_in_NYC : 3/13/2019 8:16 pm : link
Quote:

You said we’ve been set back tremendously. My response was how much further back can we go? Eli is the last piece that needs to fall, until that happens we aren’t really moving forward fully. That should happen today but I doubt it, so that means we will win a handful of games, have a top pick next year and a ton of cap - that isn’t going further back that’s taking a giant step forward.


So your question is how much further back can we go?

My answer is quite far back. How about not making the playoffs for several years.
We already haven’t  
UConn4523 : 3/13/2019 8:24 pm : link
What exactly am I missing here?
So after having OBj here for 4 years,  
Doomster : 3/13/2019 9:01 pm : link
they did not anticipate any problems with him, and gave him a huge contract?

They should have Franchised him like many on this board wanted to do.....If it didn't work out, you franchise him again and then trade him without having a 16M monkey on your back....
Just saw kdog77's post.....  
Doomster : 3/13/2019 9:06 pm : link
Yes they should have used the 5th year option, and franchised him this year and traded him....would have saved 13M last year, and we wouldn't have that 16M anchor this year....
team was unstable  
bc4life : 3/13/2019 9:07 pm : link
and Shurmur thought he could work with him, situation got worse. given OBJ's ability and productin, it was wirth the risk. dealing with human employees - crazy shit happens.
RE: Trade him for what last summer?  
Giantology : 3/14/2019 9:20 am : link
In comment 14334471 Matt M. said:
Quote:
Nobody was giving up what we just got for the final year of his contract and no guarantee of re-signing him.


Based on what? You have no idea what teams would have given up. I mean AB just got traded and immediately was given a new contract. Rumors that OBJ wanted to slightly re-work his contract as well after the trade. Odell is one of the rare players that a team would willingly give up draft capital for the right to sign him to a massive contract.
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