Another source pointed out that cutting Manning, a sure-fire future Ring of Honor member, to save $5 million wouldn't be the classiest way to treat one of the most accomplished and decorated players in the team's long history
I’m in the “don’t draft a QB... keep Eli” camp but it has nothing to do with sentimentality and everything to do with the player that we are planning to build our franchise around
After the moronic trade, I agree. The writings on the wall now in permanent marker. They’re already wasting $16m this year. No reason to waste another $5m.
About trying to win while building a team, so this doesn’t surprise me.
A lot of people have repeatedly said they like the 2020 QB class better, so that might be the plan.
Dont see it - basically saying that you're taking a dive for a yr in favor of a QB class for the following yr??? Na... besides, there are NO guarantees! If that were true, any pro team doesnt deserve fans (or their $).
RE: This jives with Gettleman’s comment in the press release- Â
there is no reason to free up cap space right now. There is no one worth getting. Just take a big of that big old shitburger this year and eat that dead cap space and free everything up for 2020, unfettered. If it's Eli's farewell tour, so be it. Why not, there won't be much else to root for other than nostalgia for 2007 and 2011.
For this farewell tour is predictable and depressing. Like seeing an aging rocker squeezing into leather pants. Only suckers will pay big money to watch Eli check down into the sunset with a 4-12 record.
If we're rewarding for past performance and not trying to put the best product on the field, why the hell am I wasting my time watching or attending games?
there is no reason to free up cap space right now. There is no one worth getting. Just take a big of that big old shitburger this year and eat that dead cap space and free everything up for 2020, unfettered. If it's Eli's farewell tour, so be it. Why not, there won't be much else to root for other than nostalgia for 2007 and 2011.
the Giants can trot out a legend with some tie to Eli. Have Tyree come out and wave at the crowd at halftime and tell stories of the helmet catch, while they are down by 21 points to the Redskins. That'll go over swell.
Trouble than I thought. “They need to address Eli’s successor soon”. OH, YA THINK? Like maybe last year. Neither Murray or Haskins is going to be there at 12, so if you really want one of them, you need to use draft picks. Great!
“We’d be interested in Rosen if he becomes available”. Basically, if a player they could have taken last year drops in their lap, they’re in. whoop de fucking do.
Not sure why we couldn't just make 2018 the "farewell tour" or why we really feel compelled to do this rather than accelerate the rebuild by cutting bait, but... it certainly isn't unexpected.
It's not Eli's fault and it sucks that he's going to wind up the fall guy after another crappy season. I don't know why they want to subject him to that - but I guess the guy just wants to keep playing football right now and they don't seem to be able to say "it's time to move on"
you read the article, the main point isn't some "farewell tour" but that (1) the Giants don't believe there is a better option at this moment, and (2) they know they have to replace him.
About trying to win while building a team, so this doesn’t surprise me.
A lot of people have repeatedly said they like the 2020 QB class better, so that might be the plan.
You know why I hate this plan? Because I believe there will be a LOT more teams looking for QB's come 2019.
Miami, Washington. Denver if they don’t grab one this year. Potentially teams like Pittsburgh, Chargers, Bengals, Minnesota, Oakland, Dallas.
Indeed, not to mention potentially many more depending on if they pass on a QB this year/how their QB's perform: New England, New Orleans, Jacksonville, Tampa etc.
affair with Eli should have ended last year Barkley or no Barkley. By the time it's all said and done Eli will be booed first time he throws a pic at home. Fans are sick of this. First time I've been this disgusted with the Giants and this has nothing to do with the OBJ trade. We've sucked too long and the fans have been patient. Enough is enough. (Rant over)
Great, it's going to be awesome for him to get booed after Â
And DG believes in the KC model, then wouldn't he be targeting a QB in this draft?
Possibly trading some of the draft assets to move up either from 6 or from 17.
The answer to that is, yes. I think the Giants have boxed themselves in to bringing in a "QB of the future" candidate this year. That's why, and I know those in the know say they won't do it, they should trade for Rosen.
Rosen will likely cost a 3rd rounder (which they just got). Indications are he's every good a prospect as Haskins and Lock, with the added bonus that he's been paid a good chunk of money already, so he won't cost much against the cap (good news for the Giants, since 15% of their cap is being paid to guys no on the team this year).
And you roll the dice with him, at a low risk and potentially high reward. He sits behind Eli to learn, and then takes over as the season predictably spirals out of control, just like pretty much 6 of the last 7 years. And the Giants can really, truly evaluate their next franchise QB. If he sucks, you go after a 2020 QB. If he works out, you have your guy and can focus elsewhere in 2020, with a shitload of cap space.
But if you go for Haskins, and he busts, you are burning a first round pick. And worse will be if they package 6 and 17 to trade up for a Haskins or Lock.
Get Rosen, see if he will work out, and if he doesn't, you have 2020 to fall back on...and you got real value at 6 and 17 to fill holes on the roster.
you read the article, the main point isn't some "farewell tour" but that (1) the Giants don't believe there is a better option at this moment, and (2) they know they have to replace him.
I suggest reading the article.
Why have Pat Shurmur at Murray's pro day, then? Just due diligence?
It's entirely possible one of these young QB's are, indeed, a better option than Eli.
I also wonder when they decided that they "knew" they needed to replace him. If it was last year, those QB's weren't good enough?
I wasn't even mad at taking Barkley - and I still am not. But, it seems strange that they'd admit that they have to replace him, but pass on two entire QB classes. It's like they're saying one thing, and doing another. Which is it?
you read the article, the main point isn't some "farewell tour" but that (1) the Giants don't believe there is a better option at this moment, and (2) they know they have to replace him.
I suggest reading the article.
What does the quoted part about it not being the “classy thing to cut him” mean? It may not say the word but that’s essentially what it says.
And DG believes in the KC model, then wouldn't he be targeting a QB in this draft?
Possibly trading some of the draft assets to move up either from 6 or from 17.
The answer to that is, yes. I think the Giants have boxed themselves in to bringing in a "QB of the future" candidate this year. That's why, and I know those in the know say they won't do it, they should trade for Rosen.
Rosen will likely cost a 3rd rounder (which they just got). Indications are he's every good a prospect as Haskins and Lock, with the added bonus that he's been paid a good chunk of money already, so he won't cost much against the cap (good news for the Giants, since 15% of their cap is being paid to guys no on the team this year).
And you roll the dice with him, at a low risk and potentially high reward. He sits behind Eli to learn, and then takes over as the season predictably spirals out of control, just like pretty much 6 of the last 7 years. And the Giants can really, truly evaluate their next franchise QB. If he sucks, you go after a 2020 QB. If he works out, you have your guy and can focus elsewhere in 2020, with a shitload of cap space.
But if you go for Haskins, and he busts, you are burning a first round pick. And worse will be if they package 6 and 17 to trade up for a Haskins or Lock.
Get Rosen, see if he will work out, and if he doesn't, you have 2020 to fall back on...and you got real value at 6 and 17 to fill holes on the roster.
I agree with you. Young, smart, good skillset, 1 year of NFL experience, no injuries after getting smashed behind the worst O line in the NFL. Low risk. Think it'd cost a high second or second+3rd. Either way, we both know it's not happening.
you read the article, the main point isn't some "farewell tour" but that (1) the Giants don't believe there is a better option at this moment, and (2) they know they have to replace him.
I suggest reading the article.
Why read the article? It literally points to how incompetent this franchise is at this point in time. They don’t have a better option? Bullshit. They don’t have an option that makes them look good.
They apparently think moving on from Beckham was a good business decision, even though they had to eat $16m. Now holding on to Eli, who will cost $5m if they don’t cut him by the 17th is a good business decision? Nonsense.
Fuck that. Stop with the half measures already.
RE: Great, it's going to be awesome for him to get booed after Â
I think people are seriously underestimating the chances that things gets ugly for Eli this year. Collins and OBJ were popular with fans and teammates. If Eli and the offense are struggling and the team is losing then a lot of folks are going to be looking at Eli and wondering why we sent everyone packing but kept him. Especially if as seems likely we pass again on QB in the draft.
There isn't a draft pick currently on the roster. The Giants have no idea who will be available in the draft when they pick.
Well, no because we didn't draft yet - but it sounds to me like they are trying to use the same rationalization they used last year about just not really liking the QB class all that much.
I feel like we're going to get that again this year and they're going to punt on QB again. If they do that, how can they keep saying it's something they need to address, but continue to punt on addressing it?
Playing the waiting game on this could become increasingly dangerous. Prospects are unpredictable and we're going to start painting ourselves into a low-leverage corner where we probably wind up in the middle of a draft, and can't get to within reach of a QB we actually decide we DO like without getting completely mugged in a trade.
A lot of teams are going to be interested in guys like Tagovailoa, Fromm, and especially Lawrence. Putting our eggs in baskets like these is asking to get caught with our tail between our legs and a decade of misery.
Not to sound like Giants homer, but it's not crazy to argue that Gettleman made the right decision last year to draft Barkley.
Also, it's not crazy to say any of the QB's are not worth the #6 spot.
It's not crazy, no - I mostly have argued the former.
I have a hard time with the latter - only because I think one of Murray or Haskins are going to wind up being pretty darn good.
If they really don't like either guy and just aren't big on this QB class either, then I guess I have to start to wonder what they're looking for or where they think they're finally going to settle on someone.
If none of these guys are good enough, I'm not sure Herbert or Fromm will be either.
I'm a bit of a Tua homer, I think he's very much legitimate. But he's going to be highly sought-after.
I worry we'll win like 7 games, wind up with a pick in the mid-late first, and not be able to get within reach of a guy we actually do want.
At that point, we're even beyond the Eli Manning fallback - we'll be the team signing Ryan Fitzpatrick because we have no one else.
(1) That wasn't the key bit from the article, or even second bit.
(2) There is a big difference in saying "farewell tour" and "we don't want to cut him."
They’re basically saying the same thing but we’re arguing semantics here. They’re giving him a fairwell tour whether they come out and say it or not, because otherwise there’s no reason to trade Odell and then not cut Eli.
I haven't done a deep look at the draft yet, but my VERY preliminary thoughts are the QBs last year were flawed and that this year's group has more question marks.
But then you have a guy like Rosen. Many on BBI thought he was the BEST QB in last year's draft. But now Arizona apparently wants to dump him for the diminutive Murray (explosive guy but man it would be ground-breaking to have a QB that small actually make it).
Haskins? A lot to like. But a lot to question too.
If you pick a QB in the 1st round, you MUST be all onboard with the guy. Or you set back your team five years.
that Haskins doesn't. I'd actually argue at this point in time Haskins is a better prospect than those two. Herbert needs a ton of work and Fromm imo is just so mediocre.
Tua is another story. But Tua is going one unless he gets injured. I think anyone in the 1 spot next year is draft him unless they have an entrenched starter that got hurt and that is why they are 1. Is that going to be us? Idk, we have an easier schedule this year and we should be able to control the ball on offense. Probably good enough for 6 wins.
At the very least 2019 will be an interesting experiment Â
to see if indeed Eli "still has it" or plain out blows. With Zeitler in fold at RG, they are only an average RT away from fielding an above average OL - along with a great RB and two high investment level receivers in EE and SS. But no OBJ, who constantly drew 2 defenders his way.
If the OL is decent, it's on Eli to produce. Lets not kid ourselves (like some surely will here) that he doesn't have ample weapons now. He does, if the OL is good he should be able to produce at the level of a top 10-15 QB, which was what he was at his best +/-.
Average is not Chad Wheeler. So will see if they draft one or pick up a stop gap vet and draft mid round OTs who need development.
Not to sound like Giants homer, but it's not crazy to argue that Gettleman made the right decision last year to draft Barkley.
Also, it's not crazy to say any of the QB's are not worth the #6 spot.
I think its crazy to say that. Had he called the Jets, moved to 3, got picks and Saquon, then i may agree. But he didn't even pick up the phone and call the Jets.
Then when are we going to find one? Every prospect has flaws. Sweat has his.
You draft players if their plus traits outweigh the negatives and work on fixing and building around the flaws. A prospect being flawed shouldn’t be the sole reason to not take one.
(1) That wasn't the key bit from the article, or even second bit.
(2) There is a big difference in saying "farewell tour" and "we don't want to cut him."
They’re basically saying the same thing but we’re arguing semantics here. They’re giving him a fairwell tour whether they come out and say it or not, because otherwise there’s no reason to trade Odell and then not cut Eli.
When you say farewell tour, people think beloved athletes that are going to get gifts or standing O's in the other teams stadium. That just isn't Eli. They are keeping right now cause there options suck, and if truly is caked we will know this year. He will have his protection. If he is done like many of us believe maybe he'll lead us to the number 1 pick.
It's laughable how bad the Giants have handled this situation. Â
It's also hilarious how *supposedly* none of the top QB prospects in the past TWO drafts is good enough to play QB for the Giants. The Giants; the same team that is 8-24 in their past two seasons, and 20 games under .500 since 2012. I mean...who do they think they are kidding?
Still, it could be worse. Like them saying they are going with Eli beyond 2019, which it appears this will thankfully be his last year with the team. It's just a shame Eli is going to go out with a team that is literally even worse than the 2017 and 2018 Giants teams and most likely a career sub. 500 W/L record. Horrible way to go out, but if the Giants are too scared to cut Eli (how pathetic, by the way), then I have zero sympathy for the Giants, nor Eli himself. They all deserve this for how badly all sides have handled this situation.
Something tells me this 'farewell tour'/last year of his career, won't be anything like Derek Jeter's or Mariano Rivera's. It's going to be an extremely bumpy ride in 2019. But at least it's the last 'ride.'
why read the article? Because if you are going to have a discussion on the article, one might want to know what it actually says first.
Other than that, one is just pissing into the wind.
Agreed. However, my point was, even if one didn’t read the article, the premise remains the same; Eli’s staying.
The Giants just traded away one of the best players they’ve ever had AND are eating $16m in salary, after the GM said they didn’t sign him to trade him. Why they’re so reluctant to move on from an unproductive player who will only cost them even more money makes zero sense at this point.
The wrecking ball has already swung one way, no point in trying to stop the momentum now.
What pick did the Jets have to trade? And who says they would have traded them... They were clearly comfortable with any of the top 3 QBs and pleasantly surprised Darnold was still there
RE: If we’re going to be hesitant because of flaws Â
Then when are we going to find one? Every prospect has flaws. Sweat has his.
You draft players if their plus traits outweigh the negatives and work on fixing and building around the flaws. A prospect being flawed shouldn’t be the sole reason to not take one.
You have to evaluate the QB and not make a mistake. Or you end up with a Dave Brown.
Not to sound like Giants homer, but it's not crazy to argue that Gettleman made the right decision last year to draft Barkley.
Also, it's not crazy to say any of the QB's are not worth the #6 spot.
It's not crazy, no - I mostly have argued the former.
I have a hard time with the latter - only because I think one of Murray or Haskins are going to wind up being pretty darn good.
If they really don't like either guy and just aren't big on this QB class either, then I guess I have to start to wonder what they're looking for or where they think they're finally going to settle on someone.
If none of these guys are good enough, I'm not sure Herbert or Fromm will be either.
I'm a bit of a Tua homer, I think he's very much legitimate. But he's going to be highly sought-after.
I worry we'll win like 7 games, wind up with a pick in the mid-late first, and not be able to get within reach of a guy we actually do want.
At that point, we're even beyond the Eli Manning fallback - we'll be the team signing Ryan Fitzpatrick because we have no one else.
This team is not winning 7 games. I don't even think we'll win 3.
The not having a replacement narrative is also a joke Â
What pick did the Jets have to trade? And who says they would have traded them... They were clearly comfortable with any of the top 3 QBs and pleasantly surprised Darnold was still there
They weren't. They wanted Mayfield or Darnold. They knew the Giants were locked in on Saquon because the Giants are terrible at playing poker. They would have moved to 2. That's from someone in the Jets war room. (and last time i checked Jets are currently drafting 3rd so apparently they had some potential assets).
What pick did the Jets have to trade? And who says they would have traded them... They were clearly comfortable with any of the top 3 QBs and pleasantly surprised Darnold was still there
They weren't. They wanted Mayfield or Darnold. They knew the Giants were locked in on Saquon because the Giants are terrible at playing poker. They would have moved to 2. That's from someone in the Jets war room. (and last time i checked Jets are currently drafting 3rd so apparently they had some potential assets).
In fact weren’t reports put out there that they were trying to after they got to 3?
RE: RE: If we’re going to be hesitant because of flaws Â
Then when are we going to find one? Every prospect has flaws. Sweat has his.
You draft players if their plus traits outweigh the negatives and work on fixing and building around the flaws. A prospect being flawed shouldn’t be the sole reason to not take one.
You have to evaluate the QB and not make a mistake. Or you end up with a Dave Brown.
yup or be like the browns up until mayfield with first round bust after first round bust Couch Manziel Weeden
Not to sound like Giants homer, but it's not crazy to argue that Gettleman made the right decision last year to draft Barkley.
Also, it's not crazy to say any of the QB's are not worth the #6 spot.
It's not crazy, no - I mostly have argued the former.
I have a hard time with the latter - only because I think one of Murray or Haskins are going to wind up being pretty darn good.
If they really don't like either guy and just aren't big on this QB class either, then I guess I have to start to wonder what they're looking for or where they think they're finally going to settle on someone.
If none of these guys are good enough, I'm not sure Herbert or Fromm will be either.
I'm a bit of a Tua homer, I think he's very much legitimate. But he's going to be highly sought-after.
I worry we'll win like 7 games, wind up with a pick in the mid-late first, and not be able to get within reach of a guy we actually do want.
At that point, we're even beyond the Eli Manning fallback - we'll be the team signing Ryan Fitzpatrick because we have no one else.
This team is not winning 7 games. I don't even think we'll win 3.
We haven't even drafted yet and have no idea what the final roster looks like.
I'm fine with not taking a QB just to take a QB - I just wonder what they're actually looking for if they didn't love any of the QB's last year and don't like Haskins or Murray this year.
RE: RE: RE: If we’re going to be hesitant because of flaws Â
Then when are we going to find one? Every prospect has flaws. Sweat has his.
You draft players if their plus traits outweigh the negatives and work on fixing and building around the flaws. A prospect being flawed shouldn’t be the sole reason to not take one.
You have to evaluate the QB and not make a mistake. Or you end up with a Dave Brown.
yup or be like the browns up until mayfield with first round bust after first round bust Couch Manziel Weeden
And drafting scared will put you in the same predicament.
Yup, but the Giants know they need to replace Eli. We also know for a fact - right or wrong - they felt Barkley was better than any QB in last year's draft. I wanted the Giants to draft a QB last April. Now, I'm leaning towards Gettleman made the right decision based on 2018 play. Obviously the next five years will tell us more definitively.
What we also seem to know is that the guy that half of BBI wanted - Rosen - is a guy the Cardinals may have already given up on after just one year.
Saquon was the right pick and a generational type player Â
A fucking farewell tour? If they wanted to give Eli a proper sendoff they should have given Eli talent to work with. The worst WR corps in the league and nothing on defense are some really crappy parting gifts.
The only reason Eli is on this roster is for PR. Mara would rather pay Eli than go through the firestorm of releasing Eli in March.
Dave Hazlewood is providing cover for Mara with his mantra about the Chiefs grooming of Mahomes. And sucker Dave is telegraphing his desire to move up for a QB this draft. He is going to get fleeced. Again.
The Giants are clearly tanking 2019. We are going to see an entirely new depth of rock bottom that very few teams have ever experienced. Once the 2019 draft is over the Giants will be on the clcok. I’m just not sure why Eli wants to be a part of it.
If they do, Rosen will be available and we have the picks to get him. If they dont’t, unless a team like Miami makes a blockbuster deal, Murray may very well be there at 6 if we want him so I am sure they are checking him out.
Trying to put myself in Gettleman's shoes. Doesn't mean I agree but if they were dropping Eli, I feel like they'd have done it already.
I honestly feel like with Eli, they are being super conservative and focusing on what the best way is to handle him leaving NY with getting the least blood on their hands; perception, negative pub, fan reaction, loyalty...things like that. The whole fiasco with the Eli benching and the reaction is making DG, and definitely Mara, way too cautious on how their handling Eli. I love the social media age 🙄
Yup, but the Giants know they need to replace Eli. We also know for a fact - right or wrong - they felt Barkley was better than any QB in last year's draft. I wanted the Giants to draft a QB last April. Now, I'm leaning towards Gettleman made the right decision based on 2018 play. Obviously the next five years will tell us more definitively.
What we also seem to know is that the guy that half of BBI wanted - Rosen - is a guy the Cardinals may have already given up on after just one year.
The Cardinals aren't exactly a model of consistency right now, so it could be that they just see the new shiny toy (Murray) and want to ditch the one they just got (Rosen) so they can have the newer, "better" one.
I'm not 100% sold that ARZ being willing to deal Rosen means he's not workable - he has outstanding mechanics and throws a great ball. I definitely think there's a good talent base to work with there.
It could just be that they want to toss Rosen out with Wilks and let Kingsbury take his own guy instead.
(Not necessarily the case - but I'd think it's worth considering...)
If Eli is the quarterback, better win some games Â
that Haskins doesn't. I'd actually argue at this point in time Haskins is a better prospect than those two. Herbert needs a ton of work and Fromm imo is just so mediocre.
Tua is another story. But Tua is going one unless he gets injured. I think anyone in the 1 spot next year is draft him unless they have an entrenched starter that got hurt and that is why they are 1. Is that going to be us? Idk, we have an easier schedule this year and we should be able to control the ball on offense. Probably good enough for 6 wins.
They give you more game experience for one thing. Fromm playing in the Natl Champ game and SEC champ game vs Bama shouldn't be discounted.
I know Haskins played in the Rose Bowl but Fromm has already played in the SEC Champ game twice, Nat'l Champ game and has another year to go. Those snaps are huge to me as well as starting and playing his whole career in the SEC.
I'm not saying getting him is a sure thing but I'm much more comfortable with him than a guy who only started one year.
We are rebuilding and John Mara has made the process more difficult because he is worried about hurting the Eli fans feelings. This is a business and people have to understand that in order to improve the team tough decisions need to be made. Mara has made DG job a lot tougher because he worries too much about what others think.
What's amazing to me is the lack of interest in finding the next quarterback.
You know who the second most important player on the team was last year? Kyle Lauletta. From the moment he was drafted the mission had to be to prepare him to take the job. The failure in that area has been total. That guy was a lottery ticket the Giants never even tried to cash. Imagine if he'd been made the starter at 1-7 last year and played to the level of Nick Mullens in SF. All of a sudden maybe we have another premium pick to use at edge rusher, or offensive line, etc.
I thought this was why we hired Shurmur... To turn a flyer into 2017 Case Keenum so we wouldn't have to spend huge picks at quarterback.
I can't believe they aren't at least actively trying to get Rosen to replace Eli. But I'd even take going with Lauletta over paying Eli.
What pick did the Jets have to trade? And who says they would have traded them... They were clearly comfortable with any of the top 3 QBs and pleasantly surprised Darnold was still there
They weren't. They wanted Mayfield or Darnold. They knew the Giants were locked in on Saquon because the Giants are terrible at playing poker. They would have moved to 2. That's from someone in the Jets war room. (and last time i checked Jets are currently drafting 3rd so apparently they had some potential assets).
They had just traded 3 RD2s on a roster that deperately needed help... They weren't moving up again... Regardless of what "inside sources" say about what they "knew" the Giants would do...
What's amazing to me is the lack of interest in finding the next quarterback.
You know who the second most important player on the team was last year? Kyle Lauletta. From the moment he was drafted the mission had to be to prepare him to take the job. The failure in that area has been total. That guy was a lottery ticket the Giants never even tried to cash. Imagine if he'd been made the starter at 1-7 last year and played to the level of Nick Mullens in SF. All of a sudden maybe we have another premium pick to use at edge rusher, or offensive line, etc.
I thought this was why we hired Shurmur... To turn a flyer into 2017 Case Keenum so we wouldn't have to spend huge picks at quarterback.
I can't believe they aren't at least actively trying to get Rosen to replace Eli. But I'd even take going with Lauletta over paying Eli.
Better win this year.
Exactly...It feels like a fear of failure at the QB that is preventing them from taking calculated risks necessary to succeed at the position.
Their colossal fuck up with Geno Smith has made them gun shy.
And there is no 'in fact' when it comes to 'reports' Â
Exactly...It feels like a fear of failure at the QB that is preventing them from taking calculated risks necessary to succeed at the position.
Their colossal fuck up with Geno Smith has made them gun shy.
It's exactly what I thought would happen. John got so many letters from the fans he got scared shitless.
I don't buy this. Fans are pretty pissed that Beckham was traded, I'm sure Mara signed off on it. If you're scared of the fans you don't trade a fan favorite in Beckham. It could be argued that Beckham was more popular than Manning.
Exactly...It feels like a fear of failure at the QB that is preventing them from taking calculated risks necessary to succeed at the position.
Their colossal fuck up with Geno Smith has made them gun shy.
It's exactly what I thought would happen. John got so many letters from the fans he got scared shitless.
I don't buy this. Fans are pretty pissed that Beckham was traded, I'm sure Mara signed off on it. If you're scared of the fans you don't trade a fan favorite in Beckham. It could be argued that Beckham was more popular than Manning.
Not with a majority of the season ticket holder base.
Exactly...It feels like a fear of failure at the QB that is preventing them from taking calculated risks necessary to succeed at the position.
Their colossal fuck up with Geno Smith has made them gun shy.
It's exactly what I thought would happen. John got so many letters from the fans he got scared shitless.
I don't buy this. Fans are pretty pissed that Beckham was traded, I'm sure Mara signed off on it. If you're scared of the fans you don't trade a fan favorite in Beckham. It could be argued that Beckham was more popular than Manning.
Not with a majority of the season ticket holder base.
Maybe, maybe not. It's not like we have a poll to go by.
It's difficult for me to believe management and the staff scouted Lualetta, decided he was valuable enough to spend a midround draft pick on, and didn't spend last year really finding out if they were somewhat right.
The team was 1-7 at one point -- if that's not when you promote a guy to no. 2 and have him ready for mop-up -- when is?
Exactly...It feels like a fear of failure at the QB that is preventing them from taking calculated risks necessary to succeed at the position.
Their colossal fuck up with Geno Smith has made them gun shy.
It's exactly what I thought would happen. John got so many letters from the fans he got scared shitless.
I don't buy this. Fans are pretty pissed that Beckham was traded, I'm sure Mara signed off on it. If you're scared of the fans you don't trade a fan favorite in Beckham. It could be argued that Beckham was more popular than Manning.
Not with a majority of the season ticket holder base.
Maybe, maybe not. It's not like we have a poll to go by.
We have recent history. There was massive, public shaming of the team for Eli Manning not starting a game. Some fans bought a billboard ad mocking the franchise. It got a week of coverage on ESPN debating the merits of Eli's career and whether he deserved this sort of treatment from the team.
What I’ve heard at games. The overall fan base may have liked Odell more, but the season ticket holders - Who trend towards higher age brackets, are very pro Eli
Is definitely not worth the cost of Rosen. If they cut Eli now they lose leverage in dealing with Arizona for 1 or Rosen. The only way you get Rosen cheap is right before Arizona picks.
Was if you're scared of backlash from fans then trading maybe the most popular player on the team for a disappointing return seems like a good way to get fans in an uproar season ticket holders or not. Bad PR is bad PR
This team and bad PR are best friends. It's the same owner Â
that botched the Josh Brown situation, held a dog and pony show "mutual parting of ways" with Tom Coughlin, hired Ben McAdoo, and let the coach and GM bench Eli Manning, then pulled a takesies-backsies on the whole thing when the shit hit the fan.
It's difficult for me to believe management and the staff scouted Lualetta, decided he was valuable enough to spend a midround draft pick on, and didn't spend last year really finding out if they were somewhat right.
The team was 1-7 at one point -- if that's not when you promote a guy to no. 2 and have him ready for mop-up -- when is?
If it was clear that Lauletta was a lost cause, why keep him? Why not raid sometime else's practice squad or make a trade for a prospect? Part of the flaw in the thinking is this notion that the next quarterback had to be a highly touted prospect.
If it is, then we deserve to lose. We're trying to compete for a title with someone like Bill Belichick; this is a big boy game with no time for that foolishness.
Farewell to a generation of younger Giants fans as they bolt for the exits, just like so many in NY/NJ did with the Cowboys and Steelers back in the day.
It's difficult for me to believe management and the staff scouted Lualetta, decided he was valuable enough to spend a midround draft pick on, and didn't spend last year really finding out if they were somewhat right.
The team was 1-7 at one point -- if that's not when you promote a guy to no. 2 and have him ready for mop-up -- when is?
If it was clear that Lauletta was a lost cause, why keep him? Why not raid sometime else's practice squad or make a trade for a prospect? Part of the flaw in the thinking is this notion that the next quarterback had to be a highly touted prospect.
The methodology is so, so flawed.
Exactly. There's no better place to churn the roster than 3rd string, inactive QB.
I respect they ditched Webb when they realized he wasn't it. And seemingly every other position as evidenced by the near complete roster dump.
The only downside is finding an adequate, cheap QB, might get the Giants .333% winning football -- and ownership would never go for what that means.
We Giants fans like it that they are a classy organization Â
that has a “once a Giant, always a Giant” attitude. Treating Eli well is part
of that. The team views him as family. And they remember how bad it felt when they botched this situation with Simms, whom they viewed the same way.
So while we think about 2019 and “the plan,” they are thinking about their values as an organization. If you like those values you have to take the bad with the good.
What we also seem to know is that the guy that half of BBI wanted - Rosen - is a guy the Cardinals may have already given up on after just one year.
That's not really a fair commentary on Rosen. If they trade him it's because he doesn't fit into the new coach's scheme that includes a running QB, not because he's been deemed a failure as a QB in general. That sort of thing happens to lots of good players in a regime change. That's the reason McAdoo tried Geno instead of Eli.
i usually avoid these qb discussions because most who are in them Â
don’t remember the horror years of craig morton and all that fully meant. however i will add these to think about.
1.Rosen is one concussion away from retirement. Medically he is scary and playing the odds is not worth a huge investment in spite of good physical skills. His father being an orthopedist just accentuates the medical problem or medical decision making if he gets dinged badly enough. of course if he’s my son he’s playing baseball. So Eli in 2019 better choice and wait for qb in 2020.
2.Murray is just too short, an honest 5’7” and looks like he doesn’t have much frame to grow into. Again odds against those qbs maturing into great nfl players are dim. O I would not sell the farm for him either.
what we are left with, Eli and then sell out for the choice in what’s supposed to be good class in 2020 or hope haskins drops or take a flyer on the kid from MO this year.
i usually avoid these qb discussions because most who are in them Â
don’t remember the horror years of craig morton and all that fully meant. however i will add these to think about.
1.Rosen is one concussion away from retirement. Medically he is scary and playing the odds is not worth a huge investment in spite of good physical skills. His father being an orthopedist just accentuates the medical problem or medical decision making if he gets dinged badly enough. of course if he’s my son he’s playing baseball. So Eli in 2019 better choice and wait for qb in 2020.
2.Murray is just too short, an honest 5’7” and looks like he doesn’t have much frame to grow into. Again odds against those qbs maturing into great nfl players are dim. O I would not sell the farm for him either.
what we are left with, Eli and then sell out for the choice in what’s supposed to be good class in 2020 or hope haskins drops or take a flyer on the kid from MO this year.
RE: Geno Smith was picked off the scrap heap and cost them nothing Â
except you had access to Sam Darnold last year and now we have?
Barkley wasting another year.
Eli fighting with a terrible team.
No future QB in sight.
Incredible amounts of dead cap money.
Jim, did you expect it would be resolved overnight?
Dead cap money - it is how you extricate yourself from shitty contracts to get a clean start.
There are ALWAYS questions as to where the next QB comes from and I frankly think QBs as we know them are changing and more styles of QB play will be successful so there will be more candidates.
Was on mobile and typing quick, but sure be a douche.
And 21...Trevor 'Sexy Beast' Lawrence...
A lot of people have repeatedly said they like the 2020 QB class better, so that might be the plan.
If the right decision based upon the other available options is to keep Eli, then fine. If the opportunity exists to move on, then we have to do it.
Staying with Eli for sentiment reasons just goes against everything else they are doing right now.
If the right decision based upon the other available options is to keep Eli, then fine. If the opportunity exists to move on, then we have to do it.
Staying with Eli for sentiment reasons just goes against everything else they are doing right now.
Agreed.
After the moronic trade, I agree. The writings on the wall now in permanent marker. They’re already wasting $16m this year. No reason to waste another $5m.
A lot of people have repeatedly said they like the 2020 QB class better, so that might be the plan.
Dont see it - basically saying that you're taking a dive for a yr in favor of a QB class for the following yr??? Na... besides, there are NO guarantees! If that were true, any pro team doesnt deserve fans (or their $).
A lot of people have repeatedly said they like the 2020 QB class better, so that might be the plan.
You know why I hate this plan? Because I believe there will be a LOT more teams looking for QB's come 2019.
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About trying to win while building a team, so this doesn’t surprise me.
A lot of people have repeatedly said they like the 2020 QB class better, so that might be the plan.
You know why I hate this plan? Because I believe there will be a LOT more teams looking for QB's come 2019.
Miami, Washington. Denver if they don’t grab one this year. Potentially teams like Pittsburgh, Chargers, Bengals, Minnesota, Oakland, Dallas.
If we're rewarding for past performance and not trying to put the best product on the field, why the hell am I wasting my time watching or attending games?
exactly
“We’d be interested in Rosen if he becomes available”. Basically, if a player they could have taken last year drops in their lap, they’re in. whoop de fucking do.
Possibly trading some of the draft assets to move up either from 6 or from 17.
I was too and, it actually looked like that was happening with the Zeitler trade. Then they got rid of their best receiver.
There’s no point now. Cut him and save the money instead of basically having $21m of dead money on the roster this year.
It's not Eli's fault and it sucks that he's going to wind up the fall guy after another crappy season. I don't know why they want to subject him to that - but I guess the guy just wants to keep playing football right now and they don't seem to be able to say "it's time to move on"
I suggest reading the article.
Yeah, these guys got it covered, stop worrying everyone.
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In comment 14334706 Sean said:
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About trying to win while building a team, so this doesn’t surprise me.
A lot of people have repeatedly said they like the 2020 QB class better, so that might be the plan.
You know why I hate this plan? Because I believe there will be a LOT more teams looking for QB's come 2019.
Miami, Washington. Denver if they don’t grab one this year. Potentially teams like Pittsburgh, Chargers, Bengals, Minnesota, Oakland, Dallas.
Indeed, not to mention potentially many more depending on if they pass on a QB this year/how their QB's perform: New England, New Orleans, Jacksonville, Tampa etc.
CUT ELI
Possibly trading some of the draft assets to move up either from 6 or from 17.
The answer to that is, yes. I think the Giants have boxed themselves in to bringing in a "QB of the future" candidate this year. That's why, and I know those in the know say they won't do it, they should trade for Rosen.
Rosen will likely cost a 3rd rounder (which they just got). Indications are he's every good a prospect as Haskins and Lock, with the added bonus that he's been paid a good chunk of money already, so he won't cost much against the cap (good news for the Giants, since 15% of their cap is being paid to guys no on the team this year).
And you roll the dice with him, at a low risk and potentially high reward. He sits behind Eli to learn, and then takes over as the season predictably spirals out of control, just like pretty much 6 of the last 7 years. And the Giants can really, truly evaluate their next franchise QB. If he sucks, you go after a 2020 QB. If he works out, you have your guy and can focus elsewhere in 2020, with a shitload of cap space.
But if you go for Haskins, and he busts, you are burning a first round pick. And worse will be if they package 6 and 17 to trade up for a Haskins or Lock.
Get Rosen, see if he will work out, and if he doesn't, you have 2020 to fall back on...and you got real value at 6 and 17 to fill holes on the roster.
I suggest reading the article.
Why have Pat Shurmur at Murray's pro day, then? Just due diligence?
It's entirely possible one of these young QB's are, indeed, a better option than Eli.
I also wonder when they decided that they "knew" they needed to replace him. If it was last year, those QB's weren't good enough?
I wasn't even mad at taking Barkley - and I still am not. But, it seems strange that they'd admit that they have to replace him, but pass on two entire QB classes. It's like they're saying one thing, and doing another. Which is it?
I suggest reading the article.
What does the quoted part about it not being the “classy thing to cut him” mean? It may not say the word but that’s essentially what it says.
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And DG believes in the KC model, then wouldn't he be targeting a QB in this draft?
Possibly trading some of the draft assets to move up either from 6 or from 17.
The answer to that is, yes. I think the Giants have boxed themselves in to bringing in a "QB of the future" candidate this year. That's why, and I know those in the know say they won't do it, they should trade for Rosen.
Rosen will likely cost a 3rd rounder (which they just got). Indications are he's every good a prospect as Haskins and Lock, with the added bonus that he's been paid a good chunk of money already, so he won't cost much against the cap (good news for the Giants, since 15% of their cap is being paid to guys no on the team this year).
And you roll the dice with him, at a low risk and potentially high reward. He sits behind Eli to learn, and then takes over as the season predictably spirals out of control, just like pretty much 6 of the last 7 years. And the Giants can really, truly evaluate their next franchise QB. If he sucks, you go after a 2020 QB. If he works out, you have your guy and can focus elsewhere in 2020, with a shitload of cap space.
But if you go for Haskins, and he busts, you are burning a first round pick. And worse will be if they package 6 and 17 to trade up for a Haskins or Lock.
Get Rosen, see if he will work out, and if he doesn't, you have 2020 to fall back on...and you got real value at 6 and 17 to fill holes on the roster.
I agree with you. Young, smart, good skillset, 1 year of NFL experience, no injuries after getting smashed behind the worst O line in the NFL. Low risk. Think it'd cost a high second or second+3rd. Either way, we both know it's not happening.
(2) There is a big difference in saying "farewell tour" and "we don't want to cut him."
Me too. 100%
I suggest reading the article.
Why read the article? It literally points to how incompetent this franchise is at this point in time. They don’t have a better option? Bullshit. They don’t have an option that makes them look good.
They apparently think moving on from Beckham was a good business decision, even though they had to eat $16m. Now holding on to Eli, who will cost $5m if they don’t cut him by the 17th is a good business decision? Nonsense.
Fuck that. Stop with the half measures already.
I think people are seriously underestimating the chances that things gets ugly for Eli this year. Collins and OBJ were popular with fans and teammates. If Eli and the offense are struggling and the team is losing then a lot of folks are going to be looking at Eli and wondering why we sent everyone packing but kept him. Especially if as seems likely we pass again on QB in the draft.
Well, no because we didn't draft yet - but it sounds to me like they are trying to use the same rationalization they used last year about just not really liking the QB class all that much.
I feel like we're going to get that again this year and they're going to punt on QB again. If they do that, how can they keep saying it's something they need to address, but continue to punt on addressing it?
Playing the waiting game on this could become increasingly dangerous. Prospects are unpredictable and we're going to start painting ourselves into a low-leverage corner where we probably wind up in the middle of a draft, and can't get to within reach of a QB we actually decide we DO like without getting completely mugged in a trade.
A lot of teams are going to be interested in guys like Tagovailoa, Fromm, and especially Lawrence. Putting our eggs in baskets like these is asking to get caught with our tail between our legs and a decade of misery.
Other than that, one is just pissing into the wind.
Also, it's not crazy to say any of the QB's are not worth the #6 spot.
Also, it's not crazy to say any of the QB's are not worth the #6 spot.
It's not crazy, no - I mostly have argued the former.
I have a hard time with the latter - only because I think one of Murray or Haskins are going to wind up being pretty darn good.
If they really don't like either guy and just aren't big on this QB class either, then I guess I have to start to wonder what they're looking for or where they think they're finally going to settle on someone.
If none of these guys are good enough, I'm not sure Herbert or Fromm will be either.
I'm a bit of a Tua homer, I think he's very much legitimate. But he's going to be highly sought-after.
I worry we'll win like 7 games, wind up with a pick in the mid-late first, and not be able to get within reach of a guy we actually do want.
At that point, we're even beyond the Eli Manning fallback - we'll be the team signing Ryan Fitzpatrick because we have no one else.
(2) There is a big difference in saying "farewell tour" and "we don't want to cut him."
They’re basically saying the same thing but we’re arguing semantics here. They’re giving him a fairwell tour whether they come out and say it or not, because otherwise there’s no reason to trade Odell and then not cut Eli.
But then you have a guy like Rosen. Many on BBI thought he was the BEST QB in last year's draft. But now Arizona apparently wants to dump him for the diminutive Murray (explosive guy but man it would be ground-breaking to have a QB that small actually make it).
Haskins? A lot to like. But a lot to question too.
If you pick a QB in the 1st round, you MUST be all onboard with the guy. Or you set back your team five years.
Tua is another story. But Tua is going one unless he gets injured. I think anyone in the 1 spot next year is draft him unless they have an entrenched starter that got hurt and that is why they are 1. Is that going to be us? Idk, we have an easier schedule this year and we should be able to control the ball on offense. Probably good enough for 6 wins.
If the OL is decent, it's on Eli to produce. Lets not kid ourselves (like some surely will here) that he doesn't have ample weapons now. He does, if the OL is good he should be able to produce at the level of a top 10-15 QB, which was what he was at his best +/-.
Average is not Chad Wheeler. So will see if they draft one or pick up a stop gap vet and draft mid round OTs who need development.
Also, it's not crazy to say any of the QB's are not worth the #6 spot.
I think its crazy to say that. Had he called the Jets, moved to 3, got picks and Saquon, then i may agree. But he didn't even pick up the phone and call the Jets.
The tone of that article was not "farewell tour" but "we don't have better option right now until we draft someone".
You draft players if their plus traits outweigh the negatives and work on fixing and building around the flaws. A prospect being flawed shouldn’t be the sole reason to not take one.
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(1) That wasn't the key bit from the article, or even second bit.
(2) There is a big difference in saying "farewell tour" and "we don't want to cut him."
They’re basically saying the same thing but we’re arguing semantics here. They’re giving him a fairwell tour whether they come out and say it or not, because otherwise there’s no reason to trade Odell and then not cut Eli.
When you say farewell tour, people think beloved athletes that are going to get gifts or standing O's in the other teams stadium. That just isn't Eli. They are keeping right now cause there options suck, and if truly is caked we will know this year. He will have his protection. If he is done like many of us believe maybe he'll lead us to the number 1 pick.
Still, it could be worse. Like them saying they are going with Eli beyond 2019, which it appears this will thankfully be his last year with the team. It's just a shame Eli is going to go out with a team that is literally even worse than the 2017 and 2018 Giants teams and most likely a career sub. 500 W/L record. Horrible way to go out, but if the Giants are too scared to cut Eli (how pathetic, by the way), then I have zero sympathy for the Giants, nor Eli himself. They all deserve this for how badly all sides have handled this situation.
Something tells me this 'farewell tour'/last year of his career, won't be anything like Derek Jeter's or Mariano Rivera's. It's going to be an extremely bumpy ride in 2019. But at least it's the last 'ride.'
Other than that, one is just pissing into the wind.
Agreed. However, my point was, even if one didn’t read the article, the premise remains the same; Eli’s staying.
The Giants just traded away one of the best players they’ve ever had AND are eating $16m in salary, after the GM said they didn’t sign him to trade him. Why they’re so reluctant to move on from an unproductive player who will only cost them even more money makes zero sense at this point.
The wrecking ball has already swung one way, no point in trying to stop the momentum now.
You draft players if their plus traits outweigh the negatives and work on fixing and building around the flaws. A prospect being flawed shouldn’t be the sole reason to not take one.
You have to evaluate the QB and not make a mistake. Or you end up with a Dave Brown.
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Not to sound like Giants homer, but it's not crazy to argue that Gettleman made the right decision last year to draft Barkley.
Also, it's not crazy to say any of the QB's are not worth the #6 spot.
It's not crazy, no - I mostly have argued the former.
I have a hard time with the latter - only because I think one of Murray or Haskins are going to wind up being pretty darn good.
If they really don't like either guy and just aren't big on this QB class either, then I guess I have to start to wonder what they're looking for or where they think they're finally going to settle on someone.
If none of these guys are good enough, I'm not sure Herbert or Fromm will be either.
I'm a bit of a Tua homer, I think he's very much legitimate. But he's going to be highly sought-after.
I worry we'll win like 7 games, wind up with a pick in the mid-late first, and not be able to get within reach of a guy we actually do want.
At that point, we're even beyond the Eli Manning fallback - we'll be the team signing Ryan Fitzpatrick because we have no one else.
This team is not winning 7 games. I don't even think we'll win 3.
There’s a lot of QBs that can give you the same production.
But it does mean something. Why spend $5m when they don’t have to?
They weren't. They wanted Mayfield or Darnold. They knew the Giants were locked in on Saquon because the Giants are terrible at playing poker. They would have moved to 2. That's from someone in the Jets war room. (and last time i checked Jets are currently drafting 3rd so apparently they had some potential assets).
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What pick did the Jets have to trade? And who says they would have traded them... They were clearly comfortable with any of the top 3 QBs and pleasantly surprised Darnold was still there
They weren't. They wanted Mayfield or Darnold. They knew the Giants were locked in on Saquon because the Giants are terrible at playing poker. They would have moved to 2. That's from someone in the Jets war room. (and last time i checked Jets are currently drafting 3rd so apparently they had some potential assets).
In fact weren’t reports put out there that they were trying to after they got to 3?
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Then when are we going to find one? Every prospect has flaws. Sweat has his.
You draft players if their plus traits outweigh the negatives and work on fixing and building around the flaws. A prospect being flawed shouldn’t be the sole reason to not take one.
You have to evaluate the QB and not make a mistake. Or you end up with a Dave Brown.
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In comment 14334819 Eric from BBI said:
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Not to sound like Giants homer, but it's not crazy to argue that Gettleman made the right decision last year to draft Barkley.
Also, it's not crazy to say any of the QB's are not worth the #6 spot.
It's not crazy, no - I mostly have argued the former.
I have a hard time with the latter - only because I think one of Murray or Haskins are going to wind up being pretty darn good.
If they really don't like either guy and just aren't big on this QB class either, then I guess I have to start to wonder what they're looking for or where they think they're finally going to settle on someone.
If none of these guys are good enough, I'm not sure Herbert or Fromm will be either.
I'm a bit of a Tua homer, I think he's very much legitimate. But he's going to be highly sought-after.
I worry we'll win like 7 games, wind up with a pick in the mid-late first, and not be able to get within reach of a guy we actually do want.
At that point, we're even beyond the Eli Manning fallback - we'll be the team signing Ryan Fitzpatrick because we have no one else.
This team is not winning 7 games. I don't even think we'll win 3.
We haven't even drafted yet and have no idea what the final roster looks like.
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In comment 14334851 ajr2456 said:
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Then when are we going to find one? Every prospect has flaws. Sweat has his.
You draft players if their plus traits outweigh the negatives and work on fixing and building around the flaws. A prospect being flawed shouldn’t be the sole reason to not take one.
You have to evaluate the QB and not make a mistake. Or you end up with a Dave Brown.
yup or be like the browns up until mayfield with first round bust after first round bust Couch Manziel Weeden
And drafting scared will put you in the same predicament.
What we also seem to know is that the guy that half of BBI wanted - Rosen - is a guy the Cardinals may have already given up on after just one year.
The only reason Eli is on this roster is for PR. Mara would rather pay Eli than go through the firestorm of releasing Eli in March.
Dave Hazlewood is providing cover for Mara with his mantra about the Chiefs grooming of Mahomes. And sucker Dave is telegraphing his desire to move up for a QB this draft. He is going to get fleeced. Again.
The Giants are clearly tanking 2019. We are going to see an entirely new depth of rock bottom that very few teams have ever experienced. Once the 2019 draft is over the Giants will be on the clcok. I’m just not sure why Eli wants to be a part of it.
I honestly feel like with Eli, they are being super conservative and focusing on what the best way is to handle him leaving NY with getting the least blood on their hands; perception, negative pub, fan reaction, loyalty...things like that. The whole fiasco with the Eli benching and the reaction is making DG, and definitely Mara, way too cautious on how their handling Eli. I love the social media age 🙄
What we also seem to know is that the guy that half of BBI wanted - Rosen - is a guy the Cardinals may have already given up on after just one year.
The Cardinals aren't exactly a model of consistency right now, so it could be that they just see the new shiny toy (Murray) and want to ditch the one they just got (Rosen) so they can have the newer, "better" one.
I'm not 100% sold that ARZ being willing to deal Rosen means he's not workable - he has outstanding mechanics and throws a great ball. I definitely think there's a good talent base to work with there.
It could just be that they want to toss Rosen out with Wilks and let Kingsbury take his own guy instead.
(Not necessarily the case - but I'd think it's worth considering...)
If I could tag Britt on this post, I would. I 1000% agree with this. You can’t have it both ways:
-Talk about examples where older QB’s won/talk about how Eli can still play behind a solid line.
-Say the team is years away & Eli is in an impossible situation.
If it’s the latter, we should move on from Eli now. If it’s the former, this team better do a helluva lot better than 5-11. Can’t have it both ways.
Tua is another story. But Tua is going one unless he gets injured. I think anyone in the 1 spot next year is draft him unless they have an entrenched starter that got hurt and that is why they are 1. Is that going to be us? Idk, we have an easier schedule this year and we should be able to control the ball on offense. Probably good enough for 6 wins.
They give you more game experience for one thing. Fromm playing in the Natl Champ game and SEC champ game vs Bama shouldn't be discounted.
I know Haskins played in the Rose Bowl but Fromm has already played in the SEC Champ game twice, Nat'l Champ game and has another year to go. Those snaps are huge to me as well as starting and playing his whole career in the SEC.
I'm not saying getting him is a sure thing but I'm much more comfortable with him than a guy who only started one year.
You know who the second most important player on the team was last year? Kyle Lauletta. From the moment he was drafted the mission had to be to prepare him to take the job. The failure in that area has been total. That guy was a lottery ticket the Giants never even tried to cash. Imagine if he'd been made the starter at 1-7 last year and played to the level of Nick Mullens in SF. All of a sudden maybe we have another premium pick to use at edge rusher, or offensive line, etc.
I thought this was why we hired Shurmur... To turn a flyer into 2017 Case Keenum so we wouldn't have to spend huge picks at quarterback.
I can't believe they aren't at least actively trying to get Rosen to replace Eli. But I'd even take going with Lauletta over paying Eli.
Better win this year.
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What pick did the Jets have to trade? And who says they would have traded them... They were clearly comfortable with any of the top 3 QBs and pleasantly surprised Darnold was still there
They weren't. They wanted Mayfield or Darnold. They knew the Giants were locked in on Saquon because the Giants are terrible at playing poker. They would have moved to 2. That's from someone in the Jets war room. (and last time i checked Jets are currently drafting 3rd so apparently they had some potential assets).
They had just traded 3 RD2s on a roster that deperately needed help... They weren't moving up again... Regardless of what "inside sources" say about what they "knew" the Giants would do...
You know who the second most important player on the team was last year? Kyle Lauletta. From the moment he was drafted the mission had to be to prepare him to take the job. The failure in that area has been total. That guy was a lottery ticket the Giants never even tried to cash. Imagine if he'd been made the starter at 1-7 last year and played to the level of Nick Mullens in SF. All of a sudden maybe we have another premium pick to use at edge rusher, or offensive line, etc.
I thought this was why we hired Shurmur... To turn a flyer into 2017 Case Keenum so we wouldn't have to spend huge picks at quarterback.
I can't believe they aren't at least actively trying to get Rosen to replace Eli. But I'd even take going with Lauletta over paying Eli.
Better win this year.
Exactly...It feels like a fear of failure at the QB that is preventing them from taking calculated risks necessary to succeed at the position.
Their colossal fuck up with Geno Smith has made them gun shy.
Exactly...It feels like a fear of failure at the QB that is preventing them from taking calculated risks necessary to succeed at the position.
Their colossal fuck up with Geno Smith has made them gun shy.
It's exactly what I thought would happen. John got so many letters from the fans he got scared shitless.
Wasting a Top 10 pick on a Geno Smith-type talent on the other hand...
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Exactly...It feels like a fear of failure at the QB that is preventing them from taking calculated risks necessary to succeed at the position.
Their colossal fuck up with Geno Smith has made them gun shy.
It's exactly what I thought would happen. John got so many letters from the fans he got scared shitless.
I don't buy this. Fans are pretty pissed that Beckham was traded, I'm sure Mara signed off on it. If you're scared of the fans you don't trade a fan favorite in Beckham. It could be argued that Beckham was more popular than Manning.
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In comment 14335033 Capt. Don said:
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Exactly...It feels like a fear of failure at the QB that is preventing them from taking calculated risks necessary to succeed at the position.
Their colossal fuck up with Geno Smith has made them gun shy.
It's exactly what I thought would happen. John got so many letters from the fans he got scared shitless.
I don't buy this. Fans are pretty pissed that Beckham was traded, I'm sure Mara signed off on it. If you're scared of the fans you don't trade a fan favorite in Beckham. It could be argued that Beckham was more popular than Manning.
Not with a majority of the season ticket holder base.
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In comment 14335051 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 14335033 Capt. Don said:
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Exactly...It feels like a fear of failure at the QB that is preventing them from taking calculated risks necessary to succeed at the position.
Their colossal fuck up with Geno Smith has made them gun shy.
It's exactly what I thought would happen. John got so many letters from the fans he got scared shitless.
I don't buy this. Fans are pretty pissed that Beckham was traded, I'm sure Mara signed off on it. If you're scared of the fans you don't trade a fan favorite in Beckham. It could be argued that Beckham was more popular than Manning.
Not with a majority of the season ticket holder base.
Maybe, maybe not. It's not like we have a poll to go by.
The team was 1-7 at one point -- if that's not when you promote a guy to no. 2 and have him ready for mop-up -- when is?
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In comment 14335062 crick n NC said:
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In comment 14335051 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 14335033 Capt. Don said:
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Exactly...It feels like a fear of failure at the QB that is preventing them from taking calculated risks necessary to succeed at the position.
Their colossal fuck up with Geno Smith has made them gun shy.
It's exactly what I thought would happen. John got so many letters from the fans he got scared shitless.
I don't buy this. Fans are pretty pissed that Beckham was traded, I'm sure Mara signed off on it. If you're scared of the fans you don't trade a fan favorite in Beckham. It could be argued that Beckham was more popular than Manning.
Not with a majority of the season ticket holder base.
Maybe, maybe not. It's not like we have a poll to go by.
We have recent history. There was massive, public shaming of the team for Eli Manning not starting a game. Some fans bought a billboard ad mocking the franchise. It got a week of coverage on ESPN debating the merits of Eli's career and whether he deserved this sort of treatment from the team.
The team was 1-7 at one point -- if that's not when you promote a guy to no. 2 and have him ready for mop-up -- when is?
If it was clear that Lauletta was a lost cause, why keep him? Why not raid sometime else's practice squad or make a trade for a prospect? Part of the flaw in the thinking is this notion that the next quarterback had to be a highly touted prospect.
The methodology is so, so flawed.
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It's difficult for me to believe management and the staff scouted Lualetta, decided he was valuable enough to spend a midround draft pick on, and didn't spend last year really finding out if they were somewhat right.
The team was 1-7 at one point -- if that's not when you promote a guy to no. 2 and have him ready for mop-up -- when is?
If it was clear that Lauletta was a lost cause, why keep him? Why not raid sometime else's practice squad or make a trade for a prospect? Part of the flaw in the thinking is this notion that the next quarterback had to be a highly touted prospect.
The methodology is so, so flawed.
Exactly. There's no better place to churn the roster than 3rd string, inactive QB.
I respect they ditched Webb when they realized he wasn't it. And seemingly every other position as evidenced by the near complete roster dump.
The only downside is finding an adequate, cheap QB, might get the Giants .333% winning football -- and ownership would never go for what that means.
of that. The team views him as family. And they remember how bad it felt when they botched this situation with Simms, whom they viewed the same way.
So while we think about 2019 and “the plan,” they are thinking about their values as an organization. If you like those values you have to take the bad with the good.
What we also seem to know is that the guy that half of BBI wanted - Rosen - is a guy the Cardinals may have already given up on after just one year.
That's not really a fair commentary on Rosen. If they trade him it's because he doesn't fit into the new coach's scheme that includes a running QB, not because he's been deemed a failure as a QB in general. That sort of thing happens to lots of good players in a regime change. That's the reason McAdoo tried Geno instead of Eli.
1.Rosen is one concussion away from retirement. Medically he is scary and playing the odds is not worth a huge investment in spite of good physical skills. His father being an orthopedist just accentuates the medical problem or medical decision making if he gets dinged badly enough. of course if he’s my son he’s playing baseball. So Eli in 2019 better choice and wait for qb in 2020.
2.Murray is just too short, an honest 5’7” and looks like he doesn’t have much frame to grow into. Again odds against those qbs maturing into great nfl players are dim. O I would not sell the farm for him either.
what we are left with, Eli and then sell out for the choice in what’s supposed to be good class in 2020 or hope haskins drops or take a flyer on the kid from MO this year.
1.Rosen is one concussion away from retirement. Medically he is scary and playing the odds is not worth a huge investment in spite of good physical skills. His father being an orthopedist just accentuates the medical problem or medical decision making if he gets dinged badly enough. of course if he’s my son he’s playing baseball. So Eli in 2019 better choice and wait for qb in 2020.
2.Murray is just too short, an honest 5’7” and looks like he doesn’t have much frame to grow into. Again odds against those qbs maturing into great nfl players are dim. O I would not sell the farm for him either.
what we are left with, Eli and then sell out for the choice in what’s supposed to be good class in 2020 or hope haskins drops or take a flyer on the kid from MO this year.
Wasting a Top 10 pick on a Geno Smith-type talent on the other hand...
Starting him over Eli in Oakland was the colossal fuck up.
Barkley wasting another year.
Eli fighting with a terrible team.
No future QB in sight.
Incredible amounts of dead cap money.
We have a fan taking polls of the popularity between Eli and OBj at games.... haha
it doesnt get worse than this.
Barkley wasting another year.
Eli fighting with a terrible team.
No future QB in sight.
Incredible amounts of dead cap money.
Jim, did you expect it would be resolved overnight?
Dead cap money - it is how you extricate yourself from shitty contracts to get a clean start.
There are ALWAYS questions as to where the next QB comes from and I frankly think QBs as we know them are changing and more styles of QB play will be successful so there will be more candidates.
Darnold, please....