Justin Tucks Take on trade and team direction

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Give it time,” is Tuck’s message to Giants fans. “I’ll get mad at his decision if in two years we’re still where we are. Why jump on it right now?”

Seriously Justin? You do know this is BBI, yes?

Justin, i hear you, but we're getting fat and grey.

One thing about the 24/7 news cycle and social media is how short our attention spans have become. The things we make a gigantic fuss about today are most usually forgotten pretty quickly.

There have been seemingly never-ending debates on BBI that most of us have probably put out of mind with the passage of time.

It will be fascinating to see how this time is remembered by Giants fans five years from now.

But this isn’t 1st grade. Trying is a given. What is expected is results.

And sitting quietly while management makes moves and not commenting on them is not what fans of any team in any sport do. Prove the doubters wrong and you earn trust in your moves going forward. DG isn’t there yet with most of the Giant fan base.

This is the right perspective, you know. As hard as it is to swallow following the bad seasons we suffered through before Gettleman.

(Still having trouble getting past the OBJ trade. That one’s gonna take a while for me.)

In comment 14335417 Eric from BBI said:

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One thing about the 24/7 news cycle and social media is how short our attention spans have become. The things we make a gigantic fuss about today are most usually forgotten pretty quickly. There have been seemingly never-ending debates on BBI that most of us have probably put out of mind with the passage of time. It will be fascinating to see how this time is remembered by Giants fans five years from now.

While I agree for the most part, this trade could very define DG’s legacy. Trading away arguably the best WR in the franchise’s history will linger. If the net reault of the picks are so so players, that too will be an issue.

In comment 14335422 Mike from Ohio said:

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But this isn’t 1st grade. Trying is a given. What is expected is results. And sitting quietly while management makes moves and not commenting on them is not what fans of any team in any sport do. Prove the doubters wrong and you earn trust in your moves going forward. DG isn’t there yet with most of the Giant fan base.

Mike, in fairness to DG (and again, I was not thrilled with the hire), He had gutted the roster, albeit he may have made some mistakes (time will tell) and had a really good draft (time will tell there as well)..He somehow, continues to be tied to Reese and the failures since 2011..

Fans should leave this guy alone and let him do his job. See what happens after next season plays out. Discuss tge pros and cons, sure, but almost EVERYTHING is definitive on here

In comment 14335422 Mike from Ohio said:

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But this isn’t 1st grade. Trying is a given. What is expected is results. And sitting quietly while management makes moves and not commenting on them is not what fans of any team in any sport do. Prove the doubters wrong and you earn trust in your moves going forward. DG isn’t there yet with most of the Giant fan base.

He never will be Mike. He's not what the "in" crowd wanted. While you are right that proving it is the standard, he was shouted down from the get go and now everything that doesn't meet with the collective wisdom of our elite is met the pitchforks. He did pretty poorly on FA last year, but he did great(it appears) in the draft.
It is a prove it sport(as are all sports), but it takes at least three years(yes even in college) to see results.

Tuck's take is pretty interesting. We all got reemed that FAs would not come here because OBJ was dealt. Yet Tuck says players know this is a business and these are business decisions. They may turn out to be bad. Or they may turn out to be very good.

Too many variables. Some possibilities include:

(1) Odell reverts back to 2014-2016 form. Peppers is just a guy and the Giants get so-so players from 1st and 3rd. Bad deal.

(2) What if Peppers or the #1 or the #3 ends up being special? Good deal or no?

(3) What if Odell never really regains his old form? Or if he continues to be a distraction? What if that happens in combination of the guys the Giants got not doing much? Who wins then?

(4) What if Odell never really regains old form, but Peppers becomes a stud? Or the #1 pick does? Giants win.

(5) How good a team will the Browns be in 3 years? The Giants?

We'll only know with the passage of time. Last year, many people - including myself - said drafting Barkley over a QB would be a mistake. After seeing Barkley, I'm not sure I believe that anymore. We'll know more with the passage of time. But many of us will have forgotten the old arguments.

In comment 14335417 Eric from BBI said:

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One thing about the 24/7 news cycle and social media is how short our attention spans have become. The things we make a gigantic fuss about today are most usually forgotten pretty quickly. There have been seemingly never-ending debates on BBI that most of us have probably put out of mind with the passage of time. It will be fascinating to see how this time is remembered by Giants fans five years from now.

There are two outcomes in 5 years.

Either this is the time of the great purge and the turning of a page that lead to success.

Or

This is the time of the great purge that lead to years of continued failure now with no known QB. At the very least the last 5-6 years we had a SB MVP QB on our team that gave us a small bit of hope every year.

What we really need to be careful is if we don't get the QB answer at least partially right, then we won't even have that hope to cling to in April.

In comment 14335422 Mike from Ohio said:

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But this isn’t 1st grade. Trying is a given. What is expected is results. DG isn’t there yet with most of the Giant fan base.

Very true..
So far, he cut a lot of dead weight and attempted to bring in replacements. I think the team this past season was better than the prior year although not THAT much better.

We will have to see what happens this season and then next. We know that you cannot turn around a bottom dwelling franchise in one season.

Fans are freaking out because it looks like we are throwing the deck chairs off of the Titanic

every WR drop or broken route will bring the ghost of OBJ... "Beckham would have caught that" "Beckham would have taken that to the house". Sports talking heads and fans will have a love fest...

the media was treating him like he was JAG.

He hasnt been elite but the encouraging thing was that he improved quite a bit from year 1 to year 2.

Are their fans upset with the Mack trade now???

In comment 14335454 Eric from BBI said:

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Too many variables. Some possibilities include:

Very true Eric! I start with the expectation that OBJ will continue his game breaking play which could be enhanced by being on that up and coming Browns team. Additionally you have no idea what the draft picks will produce. Nevertheless the shock and awe is starting to wane. Time to what DG has in store in FA and the draft.

I don't think it is reasonable to expect fans that follow the team closely to see arguably the best WR the team has ever had get traded and take a "wait and see" approach. Fans will have immediate reactions and that's fine.

I do agree that the definitive statements one way or the other are idiotic, but a lot of people - this board and everywhere else - have a difficult time distinguishing their opinion from objective fact. Opinions are all fine and to be expected. I wish we could lose the folks that don't understand the difference but that is just life.

In comment 14335471 BamaBlue said:

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every WR drop or broken route will bring the ghost of OBJ... "Beckham would have caught that" "Beckham would have taken that to the house". Sports talking heads and fans will have a love fest...

That’s assuming he’s not injured.:)

In comment 14335454 Eric from BBI said:

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Too many variables. Some possibilities include: (1) Odell reverts back to 2014-2016 form. Peppers is just a guy and the Giants get so-so players from 1st and 3rd. Bad deal. (2) What if Peppers or the #1 or the #3 ends up being special? Good deal or no? (3) What if Odell never really regains his old form? Or if he continues to be a distraction? What if that happens in combination of the guys the Giants got not doing much? Who wins then? (4) What if Odell never really regains old form, but Peppers becomes a stud? Or the #1 pick does? Giants win. (5) How good a team will the Browns be in 3 years? The Giants? We'll only know with the passage of time. Last year, many people - including myself - said drafting Barkley over a QB would be a mistake. After seeing Barkley, I'm not sure I believe that anymore. We'll know more with the passage of time. But many of us will have forgotten the old arguments.

Well said Eric....I hated the Eli trade (love it now) I loved drafting Tyrone Wheatly and Derek Brown (we all know how that turned out) ...wanted Darnold over Barkley (while Darnold may be good I love to watch Barkley play)

Give it time people !!!

so many here are reacting as if we are contenders and just gave away a big piece to that contention.

We are a really bad football team right now, with or without OBJ. And when you look at how he applies to the equation of getting back to good standing, his cons have outweighed his pros. So, we moved him and are going to head in another direction.

is very simple. I don't like losing and we did not win with Beckham and he was more of a distraction, in the final analysis, that anything else. Is he a great talent...no question about that? But he is a wide receiver...a guy who, on a great day, touches the ball maybe 8-10 times. That did not translate to more wins. And, in the only good year we had since he was a Giant, he pulls a stunt and then does not show up in the big game. Look, LT was a jerk and an ass off the field, but he showed up to play every Sunday.

To me, he was more trouble than he was worth. Cleveland is not our rival...our rival are teams in the NFC East...teams that all have solid offensive lines especially Philly and Dallas. Having a guy like Beckham is not going to fix the fundamental issues the Giants have had since 2012...lousy offensive line and trouble rushing the passer. DG is trying to fix those issues and I suspect he will continue. It is quite clear the Giants thought he was a distraction and I read an article yesterday in which someone from the Giants said he had become a Giant pain in the ass.

I keep thinking about that game against Dallas in his rookie year where he made that spectacular one handed catch...basically, the catch that has made his career. We still lost that game. So, those of you who are upset about losing Beckham I have to say this...you can watch all the one handed catches you want. I want the Giants to win games, win the division, win the NFC and a few more Super Bowls before I shuffle off this mortal coil. I want us to try and be like New England and be competitive every year and build a team every year that is competitive and playoff bound. Having our season end at the end of December is not my idea of enjoyment with regards to the Giants.

So, bottom line, I want to win. DG has a track record that suggests he knows how to build a winner. At this point in time, like Tuck said, I put my faith in Gettleman...that he knows what he is doing.

I believe we will have a huuuuuge amount of cap space !!

best years. Of course he'll still be productive and flash his unique talent. But I bet his career highlights will mostly be in Giants blue. He'll have nagging injuries and contract demands from here on out.

First year was a disaster. Does anyone expect a winning season this year?

So then what - where does patience end? Do you give him a year 3 and 4?

And that's without addressing the fact that so much of this FO and the QB haven't changed since 2012, and the team has been putrid since then.

So patience is great - but when is it enough?

Guy was trying to plug holes on a sinking ship the moment he got here. The ship is in dry dock now stripped to it's bones.

After years of shit losing okay, I'm ok with it. This is how you blow up a team.

Then he backtracked after he witnessed the disaster beofre his very eyes. He was completely ignorant in his beleifs. The moves for example of soldier and Ogeltree were bad moves if you are in a rebuild.

Until he gets a QB (hopefully he doesn't force in 2019 if they are not very good) the team is in trouble unless he somehow finds "magic" on defense by 2020.

I gave the guy n F grade this past year but still am hopeful he can bounce back over the next two years. My expectation was that teh team sucked, Initially he made it worse but going forward at least now he seems to understand. I'm hopeful but no way am I confident because it's not only him I question. It's the owner, the HC and the Defensive coordinator.

We are DESPERATE for a Leadership/Locker room presence luck JT on this team...

In comment 14335578 Jim Bur(n)t said:

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We are DESPERATE for a Leadership/Locker room presence luck JT on this team...

*like

On this team since the core of that defensive unit retired/were not re signed

I value Tuck’s opinion though interesting he said we didn’t have a star receiver in 2007 or 2011. Plax Nicks and Cruz were all playing at a very high level

In comment 14335511 That’s Gold, Jerry said:

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is very simple. I don't like losing and we did not win with Beckham and he was more of a distraction, in the final analysis, that anything else. Is he a great talent...no question about that? But he is a wide receiver...a guy who, on a great day, touches the ball maybe 8-10 times. That did not translate to more wins. And, in the only good year we had since he was a Giant, he pulls a stunt and then does not show up in the big game. Look, LT was a jerk and an ass off the field, but he showed up to play every Sunday. To me, he was more trouble than he was worth. Cleveland is not our rival...our rival are teams in the NFC East...teams that all have solid offensive lines especially Philly and Dallas. Having a guy like Beckham is not going to fix the fundamental issues the Giants have had since 2012...lousy offensive line and trouble rushing the passer. DG is trying to fix those issues and I suspect he will continue. It is quite clear the Giants thought he was a distraction and I read an article yesterday in which someone from the Giants said he had become a Giant pain in the ass. I keep thinking about that game against Dallas in his rookie year where he made that spectacular one handed catch...basically, the catch that has made his career. We still lost that game. So, those of you who are upset about losing Beckham I have to say this...you can watch all the one handed catches you want. I want the Giants to win games, win the division, win the NFC and a few more Super Bowls before I shuffle off this mortal coil. I want us to try and be like New England and be competitive every year and build a team every year that is competitive and playoff bound. Having our season end at the end of December is not my idea of enjoyment with regards to the Giants. So, bottom line, I want to win. DG has a track record that suggests he knows how to build a winner. At this point in time, like Tuck said, I put my faith in Gettleman...that he knows what he is doing.

STOP IT! You're being rational about this entire thing and that's not welcome here!

And something to keep in mind in the draft... Makes me wonder if a guy like Devin White could be in play

And a lifetime fan. Give it time isn’t in my vocabulary lol

In comment 14335511 That’s Gold, Jerry said:

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is very simple. I don't like losing and we did not win with Beckham and he was more of a distraction, in the final analysis, that anything else. Is he a great talent...no question about that? But he is a wide receiver...a guy who, on a great day, touches the ball maybe 8-10 times. That did not translate to more wins. And, in the only good year we had since he was a Giant, he pulls a stunt and then does not show up in the big game. Look, LT was a jerk and an ass off the field, but he showed up to play every Sunday. To me, he was more trouble than he was worth. Cleveland is not our rival...our rival are teams in the NFC East...teams that all have solid offensive lines especially Philly and Dallas. Having a guy like Beckham is not going to fix the fundamental issues the Giants have had since 2012...lousy offensive line and trouble rushing the passer. DG is trying to fix those issues and I suspect he will continue. It is quite clear the Giants thought he was a distraction and I read an article yesterday in which someone from the Giants said he had become a Giant pain in the ass. I keep thinking about that game against Dallas in his rookie year where he made that spectacular one handed catch...basically, the catch that has made his career. We still lost that game. So, those of you who are upset about losing Beckham I have to say this...you can watch all the one handed catches you want. I want the Giants to win games, win the division, win the NFC and a few more Super Bowls before I shuffle off this mortal coil. I want us to try and be like New England and be competitive every year and build a team every year that is competitive and playoff bound. Having our season end at the end of December is not my idea of enjoyment with regards to the Giants. So, bottom line, I want to win. DG has a track record that suggests he knows how to build a winner. At this point in time, like Tuck said, I put my faith in Gettleman...that he knows what he is doing.

+1

In comment 14335476 Capt. Don said:

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the media was treating him like he was JAG. He hasn't been elite but the encouraging thing was that he improved quite a bit from year 1 to year 2.

Yes! A WR can establish himself more quickly than someone on defense, especially if that player is as "flexible" as Jabrill
- because he has such a wide range of potential positions it takes time for the staff to find his best role (lb, ss, fs, slot etc)
- most likely he'll end up in a hybrid position (moneybacker) where traditional stats often don't show a players actual value on the field. (e.g. by lining up anywhere in different roles he can disrupt the QB's read.)
- Peppers has to concentrate on learning his position on defense the first few years, but he is capable of showing up in the offensive backfield.
- compared to someone like OBJ he is much more valuable on special teams.

Burned all the good will and equity years ago. So now it’s just a never ending bitch fest.

Also doesn’t help that many here are just bat shit nuts. TCand Eli deserved to get fired and we hate the. but Reese won two SuperBowls. Ok. Or visa versa Draft a QB in the top 10. Wait. Sign Nick Fucking Foles for more money than Eli. Sam Darnold is the second coming of a Christ. Whatever

There are some good players on this team and Barkley looks to be one of the best I the whole NFL. I’m willing to give DG Time . Why not. If they suck I don’t watch anymore.

People need more hobbies.

In comment 14335848 LauderdaleMatty said:

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Burned all the good will and equity years ago. So now it’s just a never ending bitch fest. Also doesn’t help that many here are just bat shit nuts. TCand Eli deserved to get fired and we hate the. but Reese won two SuperBowls. Ok. Or visa versa Draft a QB in the top 10. Wait. Sign Nick Fucking Foles for more money than Eli. Sam Darnold is the second coming of a Christ. Whatever There are some good players on this team and Barkley looks to be one of the best I the whole NFL. I’m willing to give DG Time . Why not. If they suck I don’t watch anymore. People need more hobbies.

My man Matty with the killshot. 😎

In comment 14335454 Eric from BBI said:

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Too many variables. Some possibilities include: (1) Odell reverts back to 2014-2016 form. Peppers is just a guy and the Giants get so-so players from 1st and 3rd. Bad deal. (2) What if Peppers or the #1 or the #3 ends up being special? Good deal or no? (3) What if Odell never really regains his old form? Or if he continues to be a distraction? What if that happens in combination of the guys the Giants got not doing much? Who wins then? (4) What if Odell never really regains old form, but Peppers becomes a stud? Or the #1 pick does? Giants win. (5) How good a team will the Browns be in 3 years? The Giants? We'll only know with the passage of time. Last year, many people - including myself - said drafting Barkley over a QB would be a mistake. After seeing Barkley, I'm not sure I believe that anymore. We'll know more with the passage of time. But many of us will have forgotten the old arguments.

Good post, but I've seen people ask about him "returning to form" quite a bit. He was on pace for 96/1,405. So what exactly does that even mean? I didn't think there was much, if anything, noticeably missing from him physically. He seemed more hesitant to push it than physically incapable of the type of movement he had before the injury, if anything.

In comment 14335511 That’s Gold, Jerry said:

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is very simple. I don't like losing and we did not win with Beckham and he was more of a distraction, in the final analysis, that anything else. Is he a great talent...no question about that? But he is a wide receiver...a guy who, on a great day, touches the ball maybe 8-10 times. That did not translate to more wins. And, in the only good year we had since he was a Giant, he pulls a stunt and then does not show up in the big game. Look, LT was a jerk and an ass off the field, but he showed up to play every Sunday. To me, he was more trouble than he was worth. Cleveland is not our rival...our rival are teams in the NFC East...teams that all have solid offensive lines especially Philly and Dallas. Having a guy like Beckham is not going to fix the fundamental issues the Giants have had since 2012...lousy offensive line and trouble rushing the passer. DG is trying to fix those issues and I suspect he will continue. It is quite clear the Giants thought he was a distraction and I read an article yesterday in which someone from the Giants said he had become a Giant pain in the ass. I keep thinking about that game against Dallas in his rookie year where he made that spectacular one handed catch...basically, the catch that has made his career. We still lost that game. So, those of you who are upset about losing Beckham I have to say this...you can watch all the one handed catches you want. I want the Giants to win games, win the division, win the NFC and a few more Super Bowls before I shuffle off this mortal coil. I want us to try and be like New England and be competitive every year and build a team every year that is competitive and playoff bound. Having our season end at the end of December is not my idea of enjoyment with regards to the Giants. So, bottom line, I want to win. DG has a track record that suggests he knows how to build a winner. At this point in time, like Tuck said, I put my faith in Gettleman...that he knows what he is doing.

Well said!

In comment 14335890 Cap'n Bluebeard said:

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In comment 14335454 Eric from BBI said: Quote: Too many variables. Some possibilities include: (1) Odell reverts back to 2014-2016 form. Peppers is just a guy and the Giants get so-so players from 1st and 3rd. Bad deal. (2) What if Peppers or the #1 or the #3 ends up being special? Good deal or no? (3) What if Odell never really regains his old form? Or if he continues to be a distraction? What if that happens in combination of the guys the Giants got not doing much? Who wins then? (4) What if Odell never really regains old form, but Peppers becomes a stud? Or the #1 pick does? Giants win. (5) How good a team will the Browns be in 3 years? The Giants? We'll only know with the passage of time. Last year, many people - including myself - said drafting Barkley over a QB would be a mistake. After seeing Barkley, I'm not sure I believe that anymore. We'll know more with the passage of time. But many of us will have forgotten the old arguments. Good post, but I've seen people ask about him "returning to form" quite a bit. He was on pace for 96/1,405. So what exactly does that even mean? I didn't think there was much, if anything, noticeably missing from him physically. He seemed more hesitant to push it than physically incapable of the type of movement he had before the injury, if anything.

He didn’t seem to have that extra gear last year. The ability to accelerate and run by defenders. Not sure if he’ll ever regain that, but even without that extra gear, he’s still a force. Runs great routes can catch the ball.

.

In comment 14335471 BamaBlue said:

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every WR drop or broken route will bring the ghost of OBJ... "Beckham would have caught that" "Beckham would have taken that to the house". Sports talking heads and fans will have a love fest...

It depends on how well Beckham does in Cleveland. If he continues to play like a HoFer, damn straight OBJ will live forever. That’s the price a GM and an organization have to pay when they let go of talent.