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| Players most often come and go based on their production, or lack thereof. Odell Beckham Jr. has come and gone from the Giants and his departure has nothing to do with what he achieved or failed to accomplish on the field. The Giants cannot, and did not, look at all the catches and yards and touchdowns and jaw-dropping plays and convince themselves Beckham could have done more. Trading him to the Browns, a deal consummated late Tuesday and made official Wednesday afternoon, ultimately came down to two separate but connected issues: What they could get for Beckham compared with how much energy they had to expend to keep him around. There is an Odell-ness to Odell Beckham Jr. and, after five years, it eventually ran its course for the Giants. Some inside the building feel a sense of relief that the superstar receiver will no longer bring unwanted attention to a franchise that did not necessarily grow sick of him but grew increasingly exhausted trying to keep up with the issues and notoriety that clung to him the way the football stuck to his huge right hand. Beckham was a popular but often polarizing presence with a legion of fans in awe of his talent and at times frustrated with his antics. To the sick children he visited — without fanfare — and the youngsters sporting dyed blond hair he thrilled with autographs, selfies and dance moves, Odell was a comic book hero in a No. 13 jersey. To traditionalists preferring hand-the-ball-to-the-referee comportment, Beckham was a solo artist, gifted but self-absorbed. There are no fence-sitters with Beckham and his exit is a curse or a blessing, depending on your Odell-meter..... |
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In comment 14335739 Gary from The East End said:
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If you can't manage your players you should find another job.
Odell's a diva. There's no disputing that. He's also one of the best players to put on a Giants uniform. There's no disputing that.
Great players are often difficult. That's something you need to deal with when you run a team. Obviously there's more stuff to deal with now because of social media and the 24/7 news cycle but that's the job.
A lot of people like to pine for the old days. The fact is, there's no way Bill Parcells would let someone like OBJ be traded. He would deal with him like he dealt with LT and any number of other players.
Thats my concern too Gary. At the end of the day this is a football team, not a boys choir.
IDK.....isn't there a clear distinction between Lawrence Taylor and OBJ the way they play into the team concept?
LT was never about himself...in terms of how he actually acted on the playing field. The guy was literally the first guy out there hugging offensive players when the made a big play.
OBJ just never struck me that way..........
LT never made me want to throw my remote at the screen, and he was all about winning, he was a holy saint on the football fielf.
It's a different era. There's no telling what Parcells would have done if he had to deal with everything LT did being put on social media all the time. That situation would have gotten dicey quick.
Parcells would never want OBJ, he wanted no part of Owens in Dallas. Parcells was known for Parcells guys, lumbering guys like Pepper Johnson and Curtis Martin who had all the intangibles.
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on any franchise, but to me, as an avid fan, I’ve been increasingly concerned about his rather inability to stay on the field. That usually worsens with age. We shall see of course
The problem for OBJ is how integral his almost supernatural quickness is to his game. At his best, he was devastating in the open field, change of direction as quick as I've ever seen from any player.
I didn't see that last year.
I think OBJ will still be great when healthy, but I don't think 2019 OBJ = 2015-16 OBJ, and with all the other negatives taken into consideration, I'm good with letting him go when there's still a market.
ASK YOURSELF THIS - If OBJ was not traded and repeated last season, prolonged injury, maybe lost a step, got more negative press with his mouth, if he indeed started complaining for another contract, maybe even sat out a couple of games over it...
What would his trade value be then? How many here would be bitching that Gettleman should have unloaded him a year or 2 earlier?
Good point about his quickness, we did not see him taking the 10 yard slant to the house last year, his long rec for the year was 51 yards. Has he lost a step or was that coming off of the injury, time will tell.
Just when I think Gettleman is too old school he enlightens us with these innovative analytic approaches.
What a hire...
@geoffschwartz
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I hope ppl don’t think Odell is an actual distraction in the locker room because he proposed to a kicking net once. He’s loved in the locker room. Works his ass off. Keeps it loose in the locker room. Clearly an excellent playmaker. If he was traded for being a distraction. Yikes
Somebody (maybe Ranaan?) responded that he was a distraction to management. Which to me is scary. There's going to be some off the field stuff for these guys to deal with. It's part of the job. OBJ wasn't doing Ray Rice, Josh Brown type stuff off the field nor was he a locker-room cancer type like TO. It was TV interviews and instagram posts. FO should be able to handle that.
The highlights will only be for about 8-10 weeks. After that, he'll be on I.R. Suck it up, buttercup.
I wish Odell nothing but success in Cleveland. It does feel like the Giants let out a collective sigh of relief after the trade. There was likely a lot of stuff going on behind the scenes. The incident with Odell’s father making fun of John Mara was a glimpse behind the curtain.
As far as I can tell, his infractions consist of being an odd person, dancing in the end zone, and giving his unvarnished opinion in interviews.
But in exchange for these crimes the Giants were able to put on the field one the top receivers, perhaps all time, in a throwing league. All you Eli backers, where would Eli's QB rating be without Beckham taking 7 yard slants 50 yards?
And to top it all off, we traded him for a pick in the second half of round one, what may as well be a 4th round pick, and a punt returner who plays safety with one interception in two years.
Pathetic.
I'm with you 100% here. What was the huge freaking problem that forced us to trade him??? Was he a pain in the ass? Sure, so what. Was that Lil Wayne interview BS? Yes, but it didn't affect his play on the field.
So we traded him for pennies on the dollar. What a joke.
I firmly believe that more will come out in the coming days. In fact, I would like to hear more about this rumor that he cursed out the coach last year.
PS. And those saying that you need to learn how to mange modern players are full of shit. Some people refuse to be managed, and if you keep them around long enough they will divide the locker room and destroy the team. Especially true in football where you have to mange 53 plus guys.
I firmly believe that more will come out in the coming days. In fact, I would like to hear more about this rumor that he cursed out the coach last year.
PS. And those saying that you need to learn how to mange modern players are full of shit. Some people refuse to be managed, and if you keep them around long enough they will divide the locker room and destroy the team. Especially true in football where you have to mange 53 plus guys.
to your last point. Why is it that the coach/management needs to change their style and adapt to the player? Why can't it be, the player needs to adapt to the rules an organization has in place? We're all adults that leave college and enter the work place, we have to adjust from our college behavior and adapt to the working world rules, if not, we get replaced.
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And do not discount the likelihood that this is exactly what OBJ wanted.
I firmly believe that more will come out in the coming days. In fact, I would like to hear more about this rumor that he cursed out the coach last year.
PS. And those saying that you need to learn how to mange modern players are full of shit. Some people refuse to be managed, and if you keep them around long enough they will divide the locker room and destroy the team. Especially true in football where you have to mange 53 plus guys.
to your last point. Why is it that the coach/management needs to change their style and adapt to the player? Why can't it be, the player needs to adapt to the rules an organization has in place? We're all adults that leave college and enter the work place, we have to adjust from our college behavior and adapt to the working world rules, if not, we get replaced.
Because these guys are not office workers were you can just go find a replacement on LinkedIn. Where the hell are you going to find another OBJ?
So I assume your morals and ethics excuse multiple drug test failures one of which led to a suspension, admitting (while he was still playing!) to smoking crack, and a DUI? All during his playing days. On the other hand Odell did something in the end zone you don't like.
The odd thing about Kim Jones’s statements is how one sided they are. She’s usually able to see both sides.
The original Plan may have been to build around OBJ. But plans change. Maybe the more they saw, the less they wanted to build around someone as mercurial as him. Perhaps when they saw a solid person like Saquon who has as much talent or more they said this is the guy we should build around.
The problem here isn't the idea of trading OBJ. It seems like many that support this return want to put people in the category. This is about being a good leader and a strong negotiator. Guess what? When people can sense you are say scared because of the Brown return it is an opportunity with blood in the water to get a better one.
There are reports that we turned down a better offer from an NFC team, it is possible this is true and possible that this affected our return when this shouldn't have been a consideration.
We can talk about ourselves as an organization all we want about being intelligent and well run but an owner speaking out against a player in season and a team leaking rumors that they suspected he missed games on purpose are not good things to help a return. They are actually moves along the lines of what this article complains about Odell being, emotional, putting something that seems personal before what would help the team the most.
The return was sub par for a guy of his talents just because we let other teams see to much of our feud and desperation shouldn't result in us viewing this in a positive light whatsoever because it "could have gotten worse." No shit. A lot of things can get worse when you oversee drifting further into the gutter. And make no mistake about this Gettleman saying "you don't quit on talent" is right. Our organization not being able to handle this, not the year before but this past year is just as much to blame for this result as anything.
We brought in another coach that had bad results the first time and looked overmatched here. And a GM who has a reputation for clashing with players. There was a universe that we brought in people that made OBJ happy and screw his head on more straight, we did not hire those people.
There is a time to say hey, let's move on, what's done is done. That time isn't now. I don't really want to see articles empathizing with this path when we really did not have to be on it and the people that put us on it are not taking enough heat in this fan base.
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I hope ppl don’t think Odell is an actual distraction in the locker room because he proposed to a kicking net once. He’s loved in the locker room. Works his ass off. Keeps it loose in the locker room. Clearly an excellent playmaker. If he was traded for being a distraction. Yikes
Somebody (maybe Ranaan?) responded that he was a distraction to management. Which to me is scary. There's going to be some off the field stuff for these guys to deal with. It's part of the job. OBJ wasn't doing Ray Rice, Josh Brown type stuff off the field nor was he a locker-room cancer type like TO. It was TV interviews and instagram posts. FO should be able to handle that.
This is something that really makes me sick to my stomach. It is actually the same thing that I think has made them reluctant to accept new ideas in team formation strategy. It seems like our ownership wants people to fit a mold that they've seen time and time again without understanding that not only is what a mold needs to look like to win malleable over time but it's people that break the mold that actually allow you to really differentiate yourself a lot of the time.
It seems like the Mara's even if they aren't willing to acknowledge this even to themselves would rather be bad doing things the same way than good doing things differently.
Not only do some people rightly point out that Taylor seemed more focused on team outcome, but that was back before there was unrestricted free agency. Players did not have the same power back then. So, a coach back then might have treated Odell in a very different way.
And I don’t understand all those folks who want to criticize the return. Cooper got a first. Brown got a third and fifth. Obj got a first, a third and a recent first round pick on his rookie contract. That’s not bad.
Having said all that - working in management sucks. In sticking with the "regular folks" office job analogy, there are people that work for me that don't do anything "wrong". They are good people, they are talented in certain aspects within their particular fields, and personally I like them. But, at the end of the day (to quote Mr. Rolle:) the production wasn't there. In addition to continually not getting the job done, they started to influence the rest of the staff in such a manner that made me worry about the overall culture of the staff ie. constant requests for days off, complaining about unfair pay, moaning about other supervisors, etc.
In my opinion - this is the kind of employee Odell had become. These kinds of guys (in my world) are labelled toxic employees and they are hard to get rid of because they are popular, skilled and didn't really do anything wrong.
It comes down to a management decision. DG decided the team needed to go in a different direction b/c one of his key cogs wasn't getting the end results that were good for the company.
If DG is wrong - it will cost him his job. So I guess there's some justice in that.
You talked about Parcells trading Beckham as soon as he did his thing in the end zone. Somehow Parcells didn't end up trading LT though. But again, whatever Beckham did in the end zone is somehow worse than getting suspended for four games for doing illegal drugs. So, got it.
I certainly saw LT not being on the field in 1988 while he was serving his suspensions. And the point is not two wrongs make a right. The point is that nothing Beckham did deserved him being traded, especially in light of what other players did and were not traded.
The only reason we didn't know about their actions was because there was no social media. LT would have been vilified by the media/fans if he played today.
And another thing about LT - he would have gotten about 1,000 unsportsmanlike penalties if he played today (for taunting, etc.) Beckham had that one fuck up in the game vs Norman. And given LT's personality, there is zero chance he would have dialed back his "intensity" to avoid penalties.
The point is, they played in two different completely eras, so it's hard vilify one and praise the other; imagine them having switched eras, and then tell me the results would have been the same.
This is another thing that's laughable. Beckham puts up numbers that in some cases are best in the NFL and that lead the team for sure, but somehow losing is his fault. Yes, the Giants lost that Dallas game, I was there. They lost by 7 points less because Beckham made an unbelievable individual effort. Don't losing teams need more of that, not less? If the argument that Beckham's contract kept us from signing other players, you'd also be wrong but it would make more sense.
But its not Beckham's fault that the Giants lost a lot of games recently. A lot of the winning that they did do is on him though.
Wake the fuck up John Mara and turn off WFAN before making important decisions. You know a franchise is fucked when everyone wants to point fingers at one of the few people with talent in the room. The problem isn't whatever the fuck a talented guy said to Josina Anderson... the problem is there aren't enough talented guys!
Odell's a diva. There's no disputing that. He's also one of the best players to put on a Giants uniform. There's no disputing that.
Great players are often difficult. That's something you need to deal with when you run a team. Obviously there's more stuff to deal with now because of social media and the 24/7 news cycle but that's the job.
A lot of people like to pine for the old days. The fact is, there's no way Bill Parcells would let someone like OBJ be traded. He would deal with him like he dealt with LT and any number of other players.
Gary, let me just say this about your perspective..
1. If an owner signs a player to a gigantic contract in August, he does not want to hear that player insinuate that he would rather be somewhere else.
2. If an owner signs a player to a gigantic contract, he expects him to be on the field even if the guy is not feeling 100% OR if the team is mathematically eliminated. You are paid to play.
3. Parcells DID put up with the off of the field things and would find a way to deal with it as you point out. However, one thing that Bill NEVER would allow is a player to sit out unless he was half dead. OBJ absolutely would have played those last 4 games if Bill was the coach. Maybe that is part of managing the player as you point out.
2. If an owner signs a player to a gigantic contract, he expects him to be on the field even if the guy is not feeling 100% OR if the team is mathematically eliminated. You are paid to play.
3. Parcells DID put up with the off of the field things and would find a way to deal with it as you point out. However, one thing that Bill NEVER would allow is a player to sit out unless he was half dead. OBJ absolutely would have played those last 4 games if Bill was the coach.
The same people saying this shit probably thought Hakeem Nicks was faking it too.
The owner also acted pretty rashly talking out about the player in public.
Is it possible things have been going on behind closed doors that neither the player or the owner enjoy? Isn't it also sort of the responsibility of the owner to put their star player in a better position than OBJ was?
OBJ had 3 different coaches in his not super long career with the Giants. Especially for a organization that supposedly prides itself on stability that is some Browns shit.
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you (and I) have NO IDEA what Beckham did or didn't do OFF the field. Obviously the people that run the Giants for a living felt that he needed to go. Personally, his antics ON the field were enough for me and I'm relieved that he's gone. I feel that he is a great individual talent and quite possibly a good man but I fear he may have some mental problems ( and, I'm an orthopedic surgeon, not a psychiatrist, so what do I know). I have to laugh every time I see his truly spectacular catch against Dallas. Problem with it is that they LOST that game. Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Andre Johnson, Lofton, Tim Brown, Fitzgerald, Dez Bryant and the list of great WR's goes on, never won a Super Bowl. I don't see Odell Beckham winning one either. In addition, you bringing up Taylor certainly did make the "two wrong's" comment germaine.
This is another thing that's laughable. Beckham puts up numbers that in some cases are best in the NFL and that lead the team for sure, but somehow losing is his fault. Yes, the Giants lost that Dallas game, I was there. They lost by 7 points less because Beckham made an unbelievable individual effort. Don't losing teams need more of that, not less? If the argument that Beckham's contract kept us from signing other players, you'd also be wrong but it would make more sense.
But its not Beckham's fault that the Giants lost a lot of games recently. A lot of the winning that they did do is on him though.
LMAO exactly, that's my favorite argument, that OBJ wasn't a "winner", unlike LT who won 2 super bowls. As though there was ANYTHING OBJ could have done more to win more games for this team in the 5 seasons he was here. Yeah, he was the reason we had losing seasons, not Reese's complete incompetence in building an o-line, or a defense that could actually hold a lead and didn't have $15M a year in cap space sitting on the bench (cough cough Vernon). And I'm sure it was Beckham's fault that Eli Manning has been a below-average QB the past 3 years despite being paid like a top 5 QB. All Beckham was doing was breaking records for fastest player to 5,000 receiving yards EVER while playing on a cheap rookie contract, but if he could have just made that 10,000 receiving yards maybe we would have won the super bowl.
Fans can be so stupid. The fact we lost was not because OBJ, a generational WR, was a "loser". We lost because this team has been bereft of talent and has been run into the ground by analytics-hating, resource-wasting management, (oh and completely stupid coaching as well ever since TC went senile in 2015 and forgot the NFL clock rules).
This isn't the 60's or the 70's where Welly would get rid of you because you cursed in front of the priest he always had in the locker room and the plane or you dared say something that could be taken critically of the team or its owner in the sporting press or you adopted a mod haircut and beard or you had the temerity to ask for more money.
It isn't like OBJ beat his girlfriend or threatened to holdout like AB and Bell did. It isn't like he was generating controversy in the locker room. Sure, he's flaky but that is the HR part of the job. If Dave and Jawn found that too challenging or distracting, maybe they need to move on to something else.
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did I miss something here? I don't remember mentioning Lawrence Taylor in my comment. But, now that you've brought him up, I also don't remember him ever doing something on the field of play that embarrassed the team. The behind the scenes escapades of him and many other Giant players, for the most part, fans were not privy to. But, you're on a roll so....
You talked about Parcells trading Beckham as soon as he did his thing in the end zone. Somehow Parcells didn't end up trading LT though. But again, whatever Beckham did in the end zone is somehow worse than getting suspended for four games for doing illegal drugs. So, got it.
This isn't the 60's or the 70's where Welly would get rid of you because you cursed in front of the priest he always had in the locker room and the plane or you dared say something that could be taken critically of the team or its owner in the sporting press or you adopted a mod haircut and beard or you had the temerity to ask for more money.
It isn't like OBJ beat his girlfriend or threatened to holdout like AB and Bell did. It isn't like he was generating controversy in the locker room. Sure, he's flaky but that is the HR part of the job. If Dave and Jawn found that too challenging or distracting, maybe they need to move on to something else.
When we talk about great NBA coaches, part of the job is managing egos and personalities. Scottie freakin' Pippen once refused to go on the floor during a playoff game because the final play of the game wasn't run for him. Phil Jackson's response wasn't, "We gotta trade the motherfucka!"
Yet in the NFL, the big tough coaches cannot possibly be expected to have to deal with something like a Lil' Wayne interview.