I imagined an LT-like scenario where the coaches/ownership made a special set of rules for him and embraced him despite off the field antics.
Shockey never struck me as loved within the Giants, especially after publicly and directly going after the coaching staff after losses. It was easier to see that exit.
So recently after signing him to an extension. With Shockey it always seemed there was something there where they thought he was a bad influence on a young QB, there were also other receiving options on the team when he was let go. OBJ seems to leave a much bigger void.
RE: Honestly, I thought OBJ would be here forever Â
I imagined an LT-like scenario where the coaches/ownership made a special set of rules for him and embraced him despite off the field antics.
Shockey never struck me as loved within the Giants, especially after publicly and directly going after the coaching staff after losses. It was easier to see that exit.
Even Shockey's biggest fans would acknowledge what a pain in the ass he could be, and to his own teammates. Most Giant players went out of their way to say what a good teammate Odell was. Plus, he loved the limelight, I can't see how being in Cleveland sates that appetite.
When Shockey was gone he was a big mouth who was injuured. He was another player who played with emotional fire, but they tend to burn out or wear out both their welcome and their bodies.
OBJ no question - Shockey had been falling off for a few seasons Â
and he also had the contract dispute. When they won the SB without him and had an option in-house, it was obvious that it was time to move on. Obviously years earlier when he was the face of the team in 2002-2005 that would have seemed unlikely.
OBJ on the other hand is still a top player and just received an extension, and there's no backup ready to go behind him. Completely surprising move to deal him right now.
I was a huge Shockey fan at 17-18 years old and I was confusing a lot of his BS as passion when in reality a lot of his actions were bad for the team.
I learned my lesson from Shockey though so Odell was not surprising in the least.
I was shocked there were Giants fans that as of Tuesday still believed the media was making up trade rumors. If NYG signs one of their own one year, they're not "listening" to trade offers for them a year later unless there's a problem.
Because he was much better than Shockey was, particularly by 2007. Shockey never really seemed to fit into Coughlin's offense the way he did in Fassel's.
I remember Shockey as a bit of a cocky asshole. Beckham is different. I genuinely believe him to be a good, compassionate man under all that flash. I don’t say this with any certainty at all but I get the feeling that there is a little underlying mental illness in Beckham’s case. I hope he finds success and happiness.
Shockey's than I am Beckham. For all his talents OBJ was hard to really like (for me personally). The antics on the field were so me me and the weirdness off it just became too much. Shockey was an idiot and he argued a lot but he rarely did things to cost the team (score and take your ripe your helmet off for a 15 yard penalty, acting like a dog pissing on the ball, the net thing , the bs about IV's and not liking water)... Shockey, for all his shit was a fucking warrior on the field. He was beat up playing here. OBJ had the one injury which was more freak luck. Shockey was a blocker, receiver and he took some violent hits.
He had to go but, I was more sad about his falling out and then leaving than I am OBJ (as it was pretty clear to me he wouldn't last here long).
Both great players for the Giants. I am always sad to see great players leave us. But as bummed as I was about Shockey, we won a fantastic SB without him.
Sometimes it's just time to move on. I have been feeling like this was coming. It sucks but I see the benefits of it.
play had dropped off while the team was ascending...and they had a young player to sorta fill the void. It would have been surprising if they didn't move on from him.
Odell's situation is much different. Not shocked he was traded though. Once you accept that the guy running the team is a moron, anything is possible.
the wrong direction. So many stupid things he did. The picture of him in bed with that "model" with the powder. He was living on the edge. Even the trip to Florida before they resigned him with all the WR's, the stupid interviews etc. So many other things we all know about during the games let alone what we don't know about and the FO does. It was a matter of time. I know it's not popular to say on this message board but once the rumors started I was pretty much thinking to myself do it while you can get something for him.Because it's going to happen.
to Shockey, for me, it's more like Beckham to LT. Mainly because a) Shockey wasn't as good as Beckham (relatively speaking) and b) Shockey's end was predictable, he seemed bitter after the SB.
If LT were on the Giants in the Beckham era, would he have even survived?
Would he have made it past the drug issues without suspension or would he be like the Cowboys defenders?
Would he have fallen outside media scrutiny and stayed away from team discipline?
Social media?
LT was of course better than Beckham, and nothing Beckham has done gets close to what we've learned about LT, but I bet the "energy" expended to keep LT around is probably similar to the bullshit excuse about the "energy" to keep Beckham.
Thought the OBJ rumors were just rumors after Gettleman kept saying "We didn't sign him to trade him". Though I'm fine with the OBJ trade.
Think OBJ is more talented then Shockey? I was a young Giants fan with Shockey so it is hard to put him in perspective.
And Shockey's time was before tight ends became such weapons with Gronk etc., so I felt like losing a tight end was not that big of a deal at the time.
"When you draft a guy #2 overall, you expect that some day he's going to be putting on a gold jacket." -- Dave Gettleman
Gettleman just traded a guy, who if he stays healthy, is going to be putting on a gold jacket -- after playing most of his years elsewhere. It may turn out to be the right move, but he just traded a HOFer, AND took the $16M cap hit. You don't expect that.
Shockey was a good TE for only a couple of years, and an asshole from day 1.
will continue to perform well for the Browns while we now have to hunt for his replacement hoping he is half as good. It sucks seeing my co-workers who are Cowboys and Eagles fans in complete jubilation that he is out of the NFC east.
to see shockey go, He was already on the decline at that point and was never healthy. Plus we all saw what Boss was capable of so we knew the his replacement was already on the roster.
Losing obj is still shocking, especially because we just extended him, and ownership just said that we wouldn't sign him to trade him. Hes a fan favorite, and hes made the team watchable the last few years. My son was distraught when I told him. Thats the first time i've ever seen him upset about a player on the giants.
after a few days of thinking on it, i'm more convinced it was the right move. We needed to rebuild, we have a lot of holes. And if we can sacrifice one player to fill multiple other players and free cap space, you have to do that. Think of it as a modern Herschel Walker trade.
Shockey was literally fighting teammates at lunch in his first camp Â
While his downfall was still surprising it is tempered by remembering how the ridiculous offensive scheme of the time thought making him a decoy was the best strategy. Ridiculous!
OBJ's end shocks me much more. It was much more sudden and we just locked him up last year to a long term deal.
RE: Honestly, I thought OBJ would be here forever Â
I imagined an LT-like scenario where the coaches/ownership made a special set of rules for him and embraced him despite off the field antics.
Shockey never struck me as loved within the Giants, especially after publicly and directly going after the coaching staff after losses. It was easier to see that exit.
Huh? Shockey was one of only 3 players asked to come and say godbye to the then dying Wellington Mara
to Shockey, for me, it's more like Beckham to LT. Mainly because a) Shockey wasn't as good as Beckham (relatively speaking) and b) Shockey's end was predictable, he seemed bitter after the SB.
If LT were on the Giants in the Beckham era, would he have even survived?
Would he have made it past the drug issues without suspension or would he be like the Cowboys defenders?
Would he have fallen outside media scrutiny and stayed away from team discipline?
Social media?
LT was of course better than Beckham, and nothing Beckham has done gets close to what we've learned about LT, but I bet the "energy" expended to keep LT around is probably similar to the bullshit excuse about the "energy" to keep Beckham.
to Shockey, for me, it's more like Beckham to LT. Mainly because a) Shockey wasn't as good as Beckham (relatively speaking) and b) Shockey's end was predictable, he seemed bitter after the SB.
If LT were on the Giants in the Beckham era, would he have even survived?
Would he have made it past the drug issues without suspension or would he be like the Cowboys defenders?
Would he have fallen outside media scrutiny and stayed away from team discipline?
Social media?
LT was of course better than Beckham, and nothing Beckham has done gets close to what we've learned about LT, but I bet the "energy" expended to keep LT around is probably similar to the bullshit excuse about the "energy" to keep Beckham.
another Huh? LT never dissed his qb or NYC
Huh? Where did I say he did? I was comparing the end of Beckham's career with the non-end of LT and feeling like LT and Beckham are better comparisons than Beckham and Shockey. and I wondered how LT would fare today in this era.
For the reasons I gave - which were based on the public reasons the Giants gave for the Beckham trade.
Because he was much better than Shockey was, particularly by 2007. Shockey never really seemed to fit into Coughlin's offense the way he did in Fassel's.
This. Shockey had the spectacular rookie year but the OL was so terrible in '03 that he had to stay in and block and then Tom came along with an offense that didn't seem to have a big role for TE's. Shockey was just never the same play maker after '02.
RE: Honestly, I thought OBJ would be here forever Â
I imagined an LT-like scenario where the coaches/ownership made a special set of rules for him and embraced him despite off the field antics.
I guess the difference is that LT was literally always on the field, a football savant when it came his ability to see or be told something once and master it, and is without question one of the best players (at any position) in NFL history.
For all Beckham's physical gifts, he's not in LT's class.
and maybe as well to Plaxico. All very talented and made great plays for us over the years. But NYC is not fpr everyone especially those who like the wild side .
While his downfall was still surprising it is tempered by remembering how the ridiculous offensive scheme of the time thought making him a decoy was the best strategy. Ridiculous!
OBJ's end shocks me much more. It was much more sudden and we just locked him up last year to a long term deal.
Yeah and that lunch fight set him up as a tough guy on the team. Revisionist history right there.
Although supremely talented I never felt either of them would end their careers with the Giants. Personally I grew tired of watching Shockey limp off the field each game and of OBJ's antics.
jvm52106 : 11:01 am : link : reply
In comment 14336030 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
While his downfall was still surprising it is tempered by remembering how the ridiculous offensive scheme of the time thought making him a decoy was the best strategy. Ridiculous!
OBJ's end shocks me much more. It was much more sudden and we just locked him up last year to a long term deal.
Yeah and that lunch fight set him up as a tough guy on the team. Revisionist history right there.
What history exactly did this revise? Please.
While it may indeed have "set him up as a tough guy" it certainly forebode what was to come.
His being a hothead directly led to his flaming out with us.
If you think it didn't you are the one engaging in revisionist history. But I don't think you're doing that. I think you're either not understanding the comment or just not remembering the reasons why he flamed out.
Hilarious to see Brees chew out bonehead Shockey Â
Shockey was such a ballsy player. After years of being medicore, he stepped on the field and just owned it. At least for a little while. Anyone remember this play? Shockey beats Dawkins - ( New Window )
I was never too upset at Odell - loved the guy - even the antics I never took seriously.
Shockey never struck me as loved within the Giants, especially after publicly and directly going after the coaching staff after losses. It was easier to see that exit.
Shockey never struck me as loved within the Giants, especially after publicly and directly going after the coaching staff after losses. It was easier to see that exit.
I don't know. A lot of Giants fans LOVED Shockey.
OBJ on the other hand is still a top player and just received an extension, and there's no backup ready to go behind him. Completely surprising move to deal him right now.
I learned my lesson from Shockey though so Odell was not surprising in the least.
I was shocked there were Giants fans that as of Tuesday still believed the media was making up trade rumors. If NYG signs one of their own one year, they're not "listening" to trade offers for them a year later unless there's a problem.
I guess it wasn't that high. Not that I'm mocking the return, it depends on Peppers, but it wasn't an Earth shattering price.
I bought that one
Odell = Certain prone to injury, but in his prime and oh yeah, top 3 receiver
Commence the 6 months of downplaying how good this guy is though..
He had to go but, I was more sad about his falling out and then leaving than I am OBJ (as it was pretty clear to me he wouldn't last here long).
Sometimes it's just time to move on. I have been feeling like this was coming. It sucks but I see the benefits of it.
OBJ is just a diva. Comes with the position I suppose.
Odell's situation is much different. Not shocked he was traded though. Once you accept that the guy running the team is a moron, anything is possible.
If LT were on the Giants in the Beckham era, would he have even survived?
Would he have made it past the drug issues without suspension or would he be like the Cowboys defenders?
Would he have fallen outside media scrutiny and stayed away from team discipline?
Social media?
LT was of course better than Beckham, and nothing Beckham has done gets close to what we've learned about LT, but I bet the "energy" expended to keep LT around is probably similar to the bullshit excuse about the "energy" to keep Beckham.
Think OBJ is more talented then Shockey? I was a young Giants fan with Shockey so it is hard to put him in perspective.
And Shockey's time was before tight ends became such weapons with Gronk etc., so I felt like losing a tight end was not that big of a deal at the time.
They won a Super Bowl with Shockey on the roster. He helped them get the wins to get into the playoffs.
"When you draft a guy #2 overall, you expect that some day he's going to be putting on a gold jacket." -- Dave Gettleman
Gettleman just traded a guy, who if he stays healthy, is going to be putting on a gold jacket -- after playing most of his years elsewhere. It may turn out to be the right move, but he just traded a HOFer, AND took the $16M cap hit. You don't expect that.
Shockey was a good TE for only a couple of years, and an asshole from day 1.
Quote:
I think I was surprised he hung around so long. In the end, they got over the hump without him.
They won a Super Bowl with Shockey on the roster. He helped them get the wins to get into the playoffs.
Yeah, he was such a good teammate the Giants didn't even allow him on the sidelines during the Super Bowl.
This offseason..
Losing obj is still shocking, especially because we just extended him, and ownership just said that we wouldn't sign him to trade him. Hes a fan favorite, and hes made the team watchable the last few years. My son was distraught when I told him. Thats the first time i've ever seen him upset about a player on the giants.
after a few days of thinking on it, i'm more convinced it was the right move. We needed to rebuild, we have a lot of holes. And if we can sacrifice one player to fill multiple other players and free cap space, you have to do that. Think of it as a modern Herschel Walker trade.
OBJ's end shocks me much more. It was much more sudden and we just locked him up last year to a long term deal.
Shockey never struck me as loved within the Giants, especially after publicly and directly going after the coaching staff after losses. It was easier to see that exit.
Huh? Shockey was one of only 3 players asked to come and say godbye to the then dying Wellington Mara
If LT were on the Giants in the Beckham era, would he have even survived?
Would he have made it past the drug issues without suspension or would he be like the Cowboys defenders?
Would he have fallen outside media scrutiny and stayed away from team discipline?
Social media?
LT was of course better than Beckham, and nothing Beckham has done gets close to what we've learned about LT, but I bet the "energy" expended to keep LT around is probably similar to the bullshit excuse about the "energy" to keep Beckham.
another Huh? LT never dissed his qb or NYC
have we really replaced him when he was effective?
Quote:
to Shockey, for me, it's more like Beckham to LT. Mainly because a) Shockey wasn't as good as Beckham (relatively speaking) and b) Shockey's end was predictable, he seemed bitter after the SB.
If LT were on the Giants in the Beckham era, would he have even survived?
Would he have made it past the drug issues without suspension or would he be like the Cowboys defenders?
Would he have fallen outside media scrutiny and stayed away from team discipline?
Social media?
LT was of course better than Beckham, and nothing Beckham has done gets close to what we've learned about LT, but I bet the "energy" expended to keep LT around is probably similar to the bullshit excuse about the "energy" to keep Beckham.
another Huh? LT never dissed his qb or NYC
Huh? Where did I say he did? I was comparing the end of Beckham's career with the non-end of LT and feeling like LT and Beckham are better comparisons than Beckham and Shockey. and I wondered how LT would fare today in this era.
For the reasons I gave - which were based on the public reasons the Giants gave for the Beckham trade.
when did we replace him?
This. Shockey had the spectacular rookie year but the OL was so terrible in '03 that he had to stay in and block and then Tom came along with an offense that didn't seem to have a big role for TE's. Shockey was just never the same play maker after '02.
I guess the difference is that LT was literally always on the field, a football savant when it came his ability to see or be told something once and master it, and is without question one of the best players (at any position) in NFL history.
For all Beckham's physical gifts, he's not in LT's class.
Agree with this.
One acted like middle school boy and the other acted like a middle school girl.
Quote:
In comment 14335793 NoPeanutz said:
Quote:
I think I was surprised he hung around so long. In the end, they got over the hump without him.
They won a Super Bowl with Shockey on the roster. He helped them get the wins to get into the playoffs.
Yeah, he was such a good teammate the Giants didn't even allow him on the sidelines during the Super Bowl.
He had a broken leg... WTF dude.
OBJ's end shocks me much more. It was much more sudden and we just locked him up last year to a long term deal.
Yeah and that lunch fight set him up as a tough guy on the team. Revisionist history right there.
Quote:
hope it does not take as long to replace Odell the as it did Shockey. Took 10 years to replace Shockey.
when did we replace him?
Engram is ready to become a difference maker on this team ...let's just hope they resign him when the time comes
jvm52106 : 11:01 am : link : reply
In comment 14336030 MM_in_NYC said:
Quote:
While his downfall was still surprising it is tempered by remembering how the ridiculous offensive scheme of the time thought making him a decoy was the best strategy. Ridiculous!
OBJ's end shocks me much more. It was much more sudden and we just locked him up last year to a long term deal.
Yeah and that lunch fight set him up as a tough guy on the team. Revisionist history right there.
What history exactly did this revise? Please.
While it may indeed have "set him up as a tough guy" it certainly forebode what was to come.
His being a hothead directly led to his flaming out with us.
If you think it didn't you are the one engaging in revisionist history. But I don't think you're doing that. I think you're either not understanding the comment or just not remembering the reasons why he flamed out.
Shockey beats Dawkins - ( New Window )