Taking a step back from the Odell trade and what the Giants got back in the deal (plus all the other deals they made). And factoring in a few Gettleman choice quotes of "no guts, no glory" and referencing the "Kansas City Model", I think I'm at a place where I believe the Giants will get a QB in this draft.
A team won't send their head coach, offensive coordinator and top scout to see player's pro day, and spend time with him unless there is real interest.
So, if you are of the belief that the Giants are going to go into this season with the heir to Eli, what is out there? A trade for Josh Rosen, which will cost a 2nd or 3rd rounder and is probably the safest route because the Giants will still be able to use their first rounders to fill holes. But there are enough indications the Giants are not considering him due to any of a variety of reasons.
Haskins, Lock, Jones are all decent prospects. And all are generally considered to be at best maybe even but likely below the class of prospects we saw last year, a class that Gettleman didn't want to get involved with and opted for Saquon instead as the safest pick because he didn't want to miss at #2.
And then comes Murray. There were questions about how serious he was about playing football and if he'd go to the A's. Questions about his height and weight and if he was too small. Well, the height and weight show that while undersized, he can still be an NFL QB. He's the best of the QBs in this draft by any and all accounts. Gettleman said you can't find your franchise QB in the middle rounds, you need to draft them high.
Now is where we have to wonder the real trigger in the Odell trade, to build up enough assets to trade up to get Murray. There are only two other teams with multiple first rounders, the Raiders and Packers. The Raiders are sitting at 4, 24, and 27. I see no real way that Mayock will trade 3 first rounders to move up to #1 to get Murray while he still has Carr on the team. They will want to fill out that roster with players. We know the Packers are not trading up to get Murray with Rodgers there. Sitting at 6 and 17, to bring in first rounders this year, the Giants have the best potential immediate package (unless the Raiders trade up)
So, the next question. What would it cost? Let's look at the most recent QB trade ups, Jared Goff and Carson Wentz.
In 2016, the Titans picked #1 and the Rams picked at 15 (a big jump) and the cost was reflective
The Titans got the Rams first round pick, 2 2nd round picks, and a third round pick. The following year it cost their #1 and #3. They got back the first overall (Goff) and the Titans 4th and 6th rounders.
Now the Eagles trade for Wentz with Cleveland.
The Eagles got the Browns #1 (2nd overall) and a 4th rounder the next year.
The Browns got the Eagles 1st, 3rd, 4th round pick, a 1st in 2017, and a 2nd in 2018.
Bottom line, the costs appear to be roughly what you'd expect:
- Need 2 first rounders (check thanks to the Odell trade)
- Need a 3rd rounder (check, thanks to Odell trade)
- looking at a high pick in 2020. Since the Giants have given up 2 firsts already, the price could well be a 2nd next year.
And the Giants have additional picks in the 5th round this year if need be.
Bottom line, the Giants now absolutely have the ammunition to move up to #1 this year because of the Odell trade. And they can offset the go forward cost and hold on to their first rounder next year.
So, would you do the following?
Trade up for #1 and draft Murray
Give up:
Both 2019 First round picks (6 and 17)
- 2019 3rd rounder
- 2019 5th rounder (pick one)
- 2020 2nd rounder
Maybe there are a few 4/5/6s shifting around either way, but those are the bones of the deal.
Would you pull that trigger to get Murray? I think that's the cost. The Giants have the draft capital to do it. They keep Eli to mentor for 2019 and hand the keys to Murray either later in the year or in 2020.
It was very strange that the Cardinals GM and Kingsbury did NOT go to Murray's pro day.
I believe there is an opportunity for Murray and/or Haskins to be available at 6 and the Giants are doing strong due-diligence.
But if QB...ok. but no trade up.
If they want to move around in the 4th or 5th rd.....fine.
If anything move back and get 2020 picks
Not with the questions about Murray's height.
And not when I know I also need to come away with at a minimum ER, OL and WR in this draft aside from whatever I'm doing at QB.
I would not trade up for Murray, nor do I have much interest in Rosen.
My two preferred options:
Haskins at #6 and then use picks to round out the other needs as stated above; edge, OL, WR, S, etc.
OR
Pass on QBs in this draft and put all picks into building the roster up, including the option of trading down for a 2020 1st.
Maybe it's unusual, but the actual value of pro days is pretty questionable. Could be as simple as the Cardinals knowing that they're picking him already and not seeing the point of going to see him performing under very artificial, controlled conditions.
For a freak athlete who's a midget by NFL standards, hell no.
Wow Murray looks little. I think Haskins, Lock or trade for Rosen.
What a silly picture to cite. Based on this picture it would imply Murray is roughly a foot shorter than Haskins and 5-6 inches shorter than Tua and we know this is not true. Further... guess what... the teams, scouts and coaches get to actually stand next to him, talk to him etc. If the Giants (or any team) takes him. They know his true height.
It think this is most likely exactly what went on there yesterday.
either by going 0-16 or trading up to get to #1
They aren't trading to #1 this year
17- Hockenson/Hollywood Brown
37- Polite
95- Cajuste
Again - use the podium and trophy for perspective. Murray is set back further than the other two guys. He's shorter than they are- but the angle and positioning pretty clearly exaggerates it.
Sorry Arc. This picture is accurate. Clearly this is the size differential. It's been established.. Haskins is 6'3, Murray 4'2
I like Murray's game and would love to see how Shurmur would use him, but my biggest concern giving up significant draft picks for him is that he does have an out to go make millions playing baseball if this team sucks and/or he gets hurt in a couple of years.
I am not advocating for the plan above, it is just what I think is most likely for them to do.
either by going 0-16 or trading up to get to #1
They aren't trading to #1 this year
If this is what they're doing, it's an awful plan.
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Maybe if Homer posts the same picture enough times, he'll look at it long enough to figure out that Haskins and Tua are standing closer to the camera than Murray is.
Sorry Arc. This picture is accurate. Clearly this is the size differential. It's been established.. Haskins is 6'3, Murray 4'2
LOL
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and want Fromm
either by going 0-16 or trading up to get to #1
They aren't trading to #1 this year
If this is what they're doing, it's an awful plan.
Jtgiants posted a couple of weeks ago that is the plan. They like Fromm, apparently.
Cardinals, Giants (at 6), Redskins, Dolphins, Broncos, Bengals.. now yes, every team has their own evaluation system but to me that says... "not a franchise qb".
Tell me about it. Guy was the hottest QB commodity on the planet one day, then he has a tough go of it in the championship game and all of a sudden he's this major question mark surrounded by elite talent who were making him look good.
Tua blows every other Alabama QB I've watched out of the fucking water. It's not even close. JPW, Blake Sims, McCarron, Coker, Hurts... you name him - Tua is 10x better and more capable than any of them.
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In comment 14336018 GiantsRage2007 said:
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and want Fromm
either by going 0-16 or trading up to get to #1
They aren't trading to #1 this year
If this is what they're doing, it's an awful plan.
Jtgiants posted a couple of weeks ago that is the plan. They like Fromm, apparently.
idk enough to know who the best qb is going to be... but my only hope is they HAVE a plan and they STICK to it
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In comment 14336018 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
and want Fromm
either by going 0-16 or trading up to get to #1
They aren't trading to #1 this year
If this is what they're doing, it's an awful plan.
Jtgiants posted a couple of weeks ago that is the plan. They like Fromm, apparently.
yesterday was not fun.
17- Hockenson/Hollywood Brown
37- Polite
95- Cajuste
THAT would be a perfect draft IF they love Haskins enough. I think other than RT, a great two way TE would make our running game & play action work so much better. Hockenson is one of my personal favorites. There are so many pass rushers and O-linemen that quality prospects like Polite & Cajuste could be available where they are projected here although it would not surprise me if they both went higher based on their grades.
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All available evidence points towards Arizona drafting Murray and having absolutely no interest in trading the pick.
It was very strange that the Cardinals GM and Kingsbury did NOT go to Murray's pro day.
This and it appears the Giants spent alot of time with Murray and Shurmur and Shula were sent there. They just may need to trade with someone picking before the Raiders. 49ers or the Jets and would cost less than the Cardinals trade.
#6-dev white
#17- Brian burns
#37-risner
Use 100 mill next off-season to bring in a #1 WR
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Maybe if Homer posts the same picture enough times, he'll look at it long enough to figure out that Haskins and Tua are standing closer to the camera than Murray is.
Yeah, that's it; they are standing closer, sure. Stephen A Smith must have standing far away too when he said calling Murray 5'9" was "generous."
Well, that settles it - let's go by what Screamin' A Smith said rather than the actual measurement they got on him at the combine.
Was he wearing lifts? Was the measuring stick broken? You're basically telling me his combine measurement is off by like 3" - so, you're just going to believe what you want to at this point.
…(I come up with 3000 points vs 2925), but it is really hard to think about giving up all those picks when the Giants need so much.
But what the heck... if you believe you can nab your franchise QB, then I guess you gotta do it!
The biggest problem was that he was playing in the same game as Lawrence, who is an even better QB prospect and was throwing darts out there.
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In comment 14336018 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
and want Fromm
either by going 0-16 or trading up to get to #1
They aren't trading to #1 this year
If this is what they're doing, it's an awful plan.
Jtgiants posted a couple of weeks ago that is the plan. They like Fromm, apparently.
The problem with this logic is it’s completely foolish to focus on a singular QB a full year before they are in the draft. For 1, Gettleman stated he plans on trying to win games this year, so if Fromm lives up to expectations, it would require a massive trade up. 2. Even if you have the ammo to trade up, you don’t know what the landscape is of other teams who want a QB and where they are in the draft. 3. Fromm did not look that good this year and finished the season looking awful so it’s hard to know how he even will be regarded. We have seen over the years guys considered top prospects end up going much later than originally thought.
Finally, JTGiants said the plan was to go for Fromm and trade Odell NEXT year (likely so we would have ammo to move up). It seems that JT may have been on the right track, but clearly the Giants accelerated their plan a full year...is it not possible it accelerated their QB plan as well?
His size scares me. But I'm old school..I do realize the NFL is different today.
The Giants would be rolling the proverbial dice.......and they already started that by trading OBJ.
I'd really go after Rosen, though. It looks like we are going to put together a good OL. The running game threat will be there. And I think he can be had relatively "cheap".
Rosen could flourish with play action and getting guys open on routes that require time.
But man, trade up for Murray and this place will be buzzing even more!!!!!!
Hah, that's cute. Anyone can plan to do anything. I can plan to have a threesome with Margot Robbie and Miranda Kerr in the International Space Station. So far, there's a pretty enormous gap between what Mr. Magoo has planned and what has actually occurred.