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Giants sign Markus Golden

Big Rick in FL : 3/14/2019 6:41 pm
1 year deal
Per Rapoport  
Big Rick in FL : 3/14/2019 6:41 pm : link
On Twitter
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/14/2019 6:42 pm : link

Ian Rapoport
‏Verified account @RapSheet
2m2 minutes ago

Source: AZCardinals pass-rusher Markus Golden is signing a 1-year deal with the #Giants.
This is the one I wanted to see happen  
Brown Recluse : 3/14/2019 6:42 pm : link
.
nice move  
Amtoft : 3/14/2019 6:43 pm : link
Can't have to many Goldens
Note  
SJGiant : 3/14/2019 6:43 pm : link
Pro football rumors says he is signing with the cards
nice  
BleedBlue : 3/14/2019 6:43 pm : link
curious as to why 1 year, i guess prove youre healthy type deal...also allows for young edge guys to step up and start next year if we dont want to resign
It's been  
David B. : 3/14/2019 6:43 pm : link
A Golden day.
This signing I like  
The_Boss : 3/14/2019 6:43 pm : link
Probably more than Tate.
Can't complain about this at all.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/14/2019 6:43 pm : link
I still want Sweat though.
Nice job, Getts!  
Ryan in Albany : 3/14/2019 6:43 pm : link
.
RE: Note  
SJGiant : 3/14/2019 6:44 pm : link
In comment 14338022 SJGiant said:
Quote:
Pro football rumors says he is signing with the cards


They took that article down
Woah. Great get.  
BillT : 3/14/2019 6:44 pm : link
So the plan has a defense, too!
Yeah baby big Thursday!!!!  
EJJ : 3/14/2019 6:44 pm : link
Add some pass rush and someone who plays well in their system!!!
Bingo.  
BlueLou'sBack : 3/14/2019 6:44 pm : link
I feel like I'm in the scene from The Wizard of OZ where the munchkins are celebrating the house landing atop the Wicked Witch of the East. Hope the price is right.
This is a great signing IMO  
Big Rick in FL : 3/14/2019 6:44 pm : link
He was an awesome pass rusher when playing in a 3-4. Hopefully he can stay healthy.
great signing - would have preferred D. Williams over G. Tate  
Eric on Li : 3/14/2019 6:44 pm : link
but I like he's hoarding draft picks and signing good players.
Great  
Chris684 : 3/14/2019 6:46 pm : link
Now sign Remmers please
If he proves to be healthy and effective,  
Big Blue '56 : 3/14/2019 6:46 pm : link
I can see an extension, prrhaps during the season.
Good get  
Torrag : 3/14/2019 6:46 pm : link
The term indicates he wasnít getting great long term offers. So heílll be hungry to have a big year and cash in. Good job DG.
RE: Great  
BillT : 3/14/2019 6:46 pm : link
In comment 14338040 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Now sign Remmers please

This, twice!
I watched him every game  
Bill in UT : 3/14/2019 6:47 pm : link
his rookie year. If he can regain that form after his injury, he is an absolute impact guy. Great motor, great pass rusher in a 3-4
niiiice  
Jim Bur(n)t : 3/14/2019 6:47 pm : link
hopefully, terms are reasonable
RE: It's been  
santacruzom : 3/14/2019 6:47 pm : link
In comment 14338025 David B. said:
Quote:
A Golden day.


Indeed, we have been showered with Goldens.
I like the 1 year deal  
Go Terps : 3/14/2019 6:47 pm : link
One of the secrets of the Pats' success is that their players are often hungry for the next contract. Other teams pay for the success that benefits that Pats, and they get the comp pick when the guy leaves.

In this CBA it's a good idea to keep the team as close to a year to year operation as possible.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/14/2019 6:47 pm : link
Nice! I like this.
Could Long John Silver  
Vanzetti : 3/14/2019 6:48 pm : link
Be next?
Amtoft  
bc4life : 3/14/2019 6:48 pm : link
Jack Golden?
I like it  
Jim in Forest Hills : 3/14/2019 6:49 pm : link
1 year prove it deal.
but i thought no one would sign here?  
Jints in Carolina : 3/14/2019 6:50 pm : link
.
Needed a pass rusher  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 3/14/2019 6:51 pm : link
He has 12 sacks in 2016 with Bettcher
RE: but i thought no one would sign here?  
Big Blue '56 : 3/14/2019 6:51 pm : link
In comment 14338066 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
.


😂😂😂
Donít know anything about him  
5BowlsSoon : 3/14/2019 6:52 pm : link
But I do know we need DEs so welcome aboard.
Remmers domino needs to fall now  
Pan-handler : 3/14/2019 6:52 pm : link
Hope we hear on him soon
More importantly  
Jolly Blue Giant : 3/14/2019 6:52 pm : link
How does this affect our comp pick status??!!!???!?
RE: Amtoft  
Amtoft : 3/14/2019 6:52 pm : link
In comment 14338056 bc4life said:
Quote:
Jack Golden?


He is only in his 40's... Lets bring him back!
So was Golden  
SJGiant : 3/14/2019 6:53 pm : link
Released or was he an UFA
Something from PFF  
Big Rick in FL : 3/14/2019 6:53 pm : link
Quote:
Key stat: Has notched 110 total pressures over his first two seasons in the league.

Not so much secret as continually overlooked, Golden has developed into a formidable edge defender, and has only been in the league for two years. He posted 53 total pressures in 2016, and upped his run stops to 41, the fourth-most of all edge defenders over the season. Golden graded well against the run and pass, and could have yet more untapped potential in year three.
so does bbi see a plan or do most continue to bad mouth everything  
plato : 3/14/2019 6:54 pm : link
this FO does? the emotional cycles on the site and the animosity has almost become unbearable. agree with signing of defensive Golden, wait to see about offensive Golden.
Hope to see aĒkindler and gentlerĒ bbi to say nothing of wiser.
Yesterday was his birthday.  
Big Blue '56 : 3/14/2019 6:54 pm : link
:)
RE: More importantly  
Big Rick in FL : 3/14/2019 6:54 pm : link
In comment 14338079 Jolly Blue Giant said:
Quote:
How does this affect our comp pick status??!!!???!?
.

I'd assume it probably doesn't. Can't see him being too costly. Probably would cancel out BW Webb signing in Cincy.
Outstanding  
montanagiant : 3/14/2019 6:55 pm : link
Now get the RT and if possible a decent LB
RE: so does bbi see a plan or do most continue to bad mouth everything  
Big Blue '56 : 3/14/2019 6:55 pm : link
In comment 14338088 plato said:
Quote:
this FO does? the emotional cycles on the site and the animosity has almost become unbearable. agree with signing of defensive Golden, wait to see about offensive Golden.
Hope to see aĒkindler and gentlerĒ bbi to say nothing of wiser.


👍
RE: but i thought no one would sign here?  
joeinpa : 3/14/2019 6:55 pm : link
In comment 14338066 Jints in Carolina said:
Quote:
.


Can t we all just get along 😄
Agent:  
sphinx : 3/14/2019 6:55 pm : link
"We are going to reunite with his former D Coordinator and get back to where we should be as one of the top pass rushers in the league."

RE: I like the 1 year deal  
GiantGrit : 3/14/2019 6:56 pm : link
In comment 14338048 Go Terps said:
Quote:
One of the secrets of the Pats' success is that their players are often hungry for the next contract. Other teams pay for the success that benefits that Pats, and they get the comp pick when the guy leaves.

In this CBA it's a good idea to keep the team as close to a year to year operation as possible.


Good point. Thanks for sharing the Belichick podcast bit the other day. Great listen.
RE: RE: More importantly  
SJGiant : 3/14/2019 6:56 pm : link
In comment 14338093 Big Rick in FL said:
Quote:
In comment 14338079 Jolly Blue Giant said:


Quote:


How does this affect our comp pick status??!!!???!?

.

I'd assume it probably doesn't. Can't see him being too costly. Probably would cancel out BW Webb signing in Cincy.


If he was released, it doesnít cost anything.
Its a Golden Day!  
Jim Bur(n)t : 3/14/2019 6:57 pm : link
RE: RE: RE: More importantly  
SJGiant : 3/14/2019 7:00 pm : link
In comment 14338100 SJGiant said:
Quote:
In comment 14338093 Big Rick in FL said:


Quote:


In comment 14338079 Jolly Blue Giant said:


Quote:


How does this affect our comp pick status??!!!???!?

.

I'd assume it probably doesn't. Can't see him being too costly. Probably would cancel out BW Webb signing in Cincy.



If he was released, it doesnít cost anything.


Eric put on the free agent page that he was a UFA. He will count in the compensation formula.
mayock  
bc4life : 3/14/2019 7:01 pm : link
liked him
link - ( New Window )
With this run on Goldens  
ArlingtonMike : 3/14/2019 7:01 pm : link
I would expect ď45Ē to be the next signing
RE: RE: I like the 1 year deal  
Go Terps : 3/14/2019 7:02 pm : link
In comment 14338099 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
In comment 14338048 Go Terps said:


Quote:


One of the secrets of the Pats' success is that their players are often hungry for the next contract. Other teams pay for the success that benefits that Pats, and they get the comp pick when the guy leaves.

In this CBA it's a good idea to keep the team as close to a year to year operation as possible.



Good point. Thanks for sharing the Belichick podcast bit the other day. Great listen.


No sweat. The guy is a genius.

Every time I think about Belichick and how he runs the Patriots, I wonder if the best way to structure your roster is to have 53 players all on 1 year contracts each earning 1/53 of the salary cap. Winning in the NFL is about coaching, culture, and injury luck; once you get to the NFL level the talent is tight enough that 53 coachable guys will perform better than 53 more talented but less coachable guys.

The key is to have the coaching staff in place. I don't believe the Giants do right now.
RE: RE: It's been  
Diver_Down : 3/14/2019 7:04 pm : link
In comment 14338047 santacruzom said:
Quote:
In comment 14338025 David B. said:


Quote:


A Golden day.



Indeed, we have been showered with Goldens.


Better than Golden Showers...
RE: I like the 1 year deal  
RobCarpenter : 3/14/2019 7:09 pm : link
In comment 14338048 Go Terps said:
Quote:
One of the secrets of the Pats' success is that their players are often hungry for the next contract. Other teams pay for the success that benefits that Pats, and they get the comp pick when the guy leaves.

In this CBA it's a good idea to keep the team as close to a year to year operation as possible.


I could be wrong but I remember Phil Rizzuto saying players should be on one year contracts. He was talking about MLB but the logic is basically the same.
Just when I think you couldnít be any dumber Gettleman  
eric2425ny : 3/14/2019 7:10 pm : link
you go and make a signing like this.... and totally redeem yourself!

RE: so does bbi see a plan or do most continue to bad mouth everything  
ajr2456 : 3/14/2019 7:11 pm : link
In comment 14338088 plato said:
Quote:
this FO does? the emotional cycles on the site and the animosity has almost become unbearable. agree with signing of defensive Golden, wait to see about offensive Golden.
Hope to see aĒkindler and gentlerĒ bbi to say nothing of wiser.


I don't think Markus Golden signifies that they have a plan.
A Golden Day  
SHO'NUFF : 3/14/2019 7:11 pm : link
after Black Tuesday.
RE: RE: I like the 1 year deal  
Stan in LA : 3/14/2019 7:13 pm : link
In comment 14338155 RobCarpenter said:
Quote:
In comment 14338048 Go Terps said:


Quote:


One of the secrets of the Pats' success is that their players are often hungry for the next contract. Other teams pay for the success that benefits that Pats, and they get the comp pick when the guy leaves.

In this CBA it's a good idea to keep the team as close to a year to year operation as possible.



I could be wrong but I remember Phil Rizzuto saying players should be on one year contracts. He was talking about MLB but the logic is basically the same.


Actually it was charlie Finley, the infamous owner of the 70's A's.
I call dibs on the username:  
SHO'NUFF : 3/14/2019 7:13 pm : link
Markus Golden Tate!
Musical Giants  
Ira : 3/14/2019 7:13 pm : link
Zeitler replaces Brown (++)
Tate replaces Beckham (--)

Golden replaces Vernon (=)
Peppers replaces Collins (=)
Bethea replaces Riley (+)
Thanks Stan  
RobCarpenter : 3/14/2019 7:14 pm : link
But to some extent the logic isnít bad
Good  
Marty866b : 3/14/2019 7:14 pm : link
First thing that we did this off season that I actually don't question. jtgiants said there was another defensive guy we're going after, right?
Terps agreed  
ChaChing : 3/14/2019 7:14 pm : link
IMO as much hand-wringing as we do over specific picks being right or wrong, it seems their success depends much more on usage and individual development. I too am not sure if NYG has that in place, but then I'd say until TC won the SB most were as uncertain

It helps if that person has control of personnel or is in harmony with the FO. But consistently being able to get the most out of whatever you have thru usage and talent development you'd think is way more impactful than just draft or FA strategy both short & long term

All much easier said than done no matter the situation of course
RE: Good  
Dave in Hoboken : 3/14/2019 7:16 pm : link
In comment 14338192 Marty866b said:
Quote:
First thing that we did this off season that I actually don't question. jtgiants said there was another defensive guy we're going after, right?


Same. First move this offseason that doesn't completely suck. 2016 was his last really good year, though. Still, on a one year deal, I like it. He'll be motivated, and it's not like he's good enough to cost us anything.
oops  
Marty866b : 3/14/2019 7:17 pm : link
I also liked the Zeitler trade.
Golden doesn't replace Vernon  
bc4life : 3/14/2019 7:18 pm : link
But, he could help and he's a lot cheaper.
RE: Musical Giants  
Eric on Li : 3/14/2019 7:22 pm : link
In comment 14338186 Ira said:
Quote:
Zeitler replaces Brown (++)
Tate replaces Beckham (--)

Golden replaces Vernon (=)
Peppers replaces Collins (=)
Bethea replaces Riley (+)


Also:
1st rd draft picks (+)
3rd rd picks (++) (assuming the LC comp pick comes through)

They are trying to replace talent as best they can while adding as many draft picks as they can. I think it's a pretty basic but solid strategy.

The harder part is going to be getting the draft picks right but thankfully that was 1 thing the new regime did well last year.
Wonder if they would still go after Shaquil Barrett  
Brown Recluse : 3/14/2019 7:23 pm : link
or Justin Houston
RE: Wonder if they would still go after Shaquil Barrett  
Jon in NYC : 3/14/2019 7:25 pm : link
In comment 14338234 Brown Recluse said:
Quote:
or Justin Houston


With Tate's signing they're likely priced out. Still think they go here pretty high in the draft.
Good Signing,  
clatterbuck : 3/14/2019 7:28 pm : link
also like Golden Tate, Zeitler acquisitions and hope we get Remmers. Would like all of this a hell of a lot more if OBJ were still on the team.
Not sure  
jtgiants : 3/14/2019 7:29 pm : link
Why the delay bit he was one of the signings expected yesterday
RE: RE: Musical Giants  
MotownGIANTS : 3/14/2019 7:29 pm : link
In comment 14338232 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
In comment 14338186 Ira said:


Quote:


Zeitler replaces Brown (++)
Tate replaces Beckham (--)

Golden replaces Vernon (=)
Peppers replaces Collins (=)
Bethea replaces Riley (+)



Also:
1st rd draft picks (+)
3rd rd picks (++) (assuming the LC comp pick comes through)

They are trying to replace talent as best they can while adding as many draft picks as they can. I think it's a pretty basic but solid strategy.

The harder part is going to be getting the draft picks right but thankfully that was 1 thing the new regime did well last year.


Peppers replaces Collins (+)
Now this is a good signing  
prdave73 : 3/14/2019 7:29 pm : link
And makes sense for what they are trying to accomplish! Sheez..
RE: Not sure  
Matt in SGS : 3/14/2019 7:33 pm : link
In comment 14338253 jtgiants said:
Quote:
Why the delay bit he was one of the signings expected yesterday


Medicals maybe?
FA's  
mac_nyg1910 : 3/14/2019 7:36 pm : link
Well:
Peppers is an upgrade over Collins

Golden should be an upgrade over Vernon

Nobody can replace OBJ on the field, but if we sign a tackle and and a corner I would say free agency was a success.
Mistake ...IF we use it to justify  
idiotsavant : 3/14/2019 7:37 pm : link
Skipping a great front 7 player (likely drop this year) at 6,17 or 37 to slightly reach for a medium quality tackle or simply decent or possibility at wr at those spots.

Even if such is, would be, a push ....any other year. Because of the likely hood of that sort of drop this draft. I.e. greats on D front 7 and the benefit of many such on a team.

Which (normal valued OT or wr) would not be an example of clear thinking in such a case.
For the love of all things  
FranknWeezer : 3/14/2019 7:40 pm : link
Please donít let him wear a # in the 40ís as an LB. Too much Uani Unga for me.
How did this guy only get a one year deal?  
djm : 3/14/2019 7:42 pm : link
I havenít read up on him but heís a young productive pass rusher. Even with flaws those guys get paid. One year?

The one year deal says  
Bill in UT : 3/14/2019 7:42 pm : link
that he thinks he's come back to form and plans on getting some good money after proving it here this year.
RE: How did this guy only get a one year deal?  
micky : 3/14/2019 7:45 pm : link
In comment 14338302 djm said:
Quote:
I havenít read up on him but heís a young productive pass rusher. Even with flaws those guys get paid. One year?


Probably because off ACL prove it he makes all the way back
Likely due to coming off an ACL in 2017  
ChaChing : 3/14/2019 7:45 pm : link
and lower production in 2018 possibly as related and/or due to a new scheme
he likely wanted the 1 year deal to re-establish his value  
Eric on Li : 3/14/2019 7:48 pm : link
he's had 2 down years, 1 injured, 1 in a new scheme. Now he goes back to his old scheme and if he puts up a healthy + productive season he'll likely get at least double the guaranteed money he would have gotten this year. Maybe triple.
Got it thanks guys  
djm : 3/14/2019 8:03 pm : link
...
Golden  
noro9 : 3/14/2019 8:04 pm : link
Showers of happiness
What we seem to have done so far is replace players that we lost.  
Ira : 3/14/2019 8:15 pm : link
Obviously Tate isn't as good as Beckham, but Zeitler is better than Brown and we're probably somewhat stronger at safety. So, all in all, we're about the same, talent wise, as we were in December. But we're in better cap shape over the long hall and we have a couple of extra picks.

Keeping Beckham and Vernon and signing Collins to an expensive deal would have left us in a very weak financial position for the future. Now, we have a talent level similar to what we would have had if we played this the way everyone expected. DG is navigating free agency very intelligently. It makes me wonder how so many idiots in the media don't see this.
RE: What we seem to have done so far is replace players that we lost.  
Eric on Li : 3/14/2019 8:27 pm : link
In comment 14338377 Ira said:
Quote:
Obviously Tate isn't as good as Beckham, but Zeitler is better than Brown and we're probably somewhat stronger at safety. So, all in all, we're about the same, talent wise, as we were in December. But we're in better cap shape over the long hall and we have a couple of extra picks.

Keeping Beckham and Vernon and signing Collins to an expensive deal would have left us in a very weak financial position for the future. Now, we have a talent level similar to what we would have had if we played this the way everyone expected. DG is navigating free agency very intelligently. It makes me wonder how so many idiots in the media don't see this.


Same. To me the most odd thing is that for years there has been consensus they were delusional trying to compete and needed to rebuild. What do they think that looks like? Cutting old players does nothing to add talent. Getting more high draft picks does. And you don't usually get high draft picks for bad players, you have to give up good ones.
RE: What we seem to have done so far is replace players that we lost.  
Brown_Hornet : 3/14/2019 8:29 pm : link
In comment 14338377 Ira said:
Quote:
Obviously Tate isn't as good as Beckham, but Zeitler is better than Brown and we're probably somewhat stronger at safety. So, all in all, we're about the same, talent wise, as we were in December. But we're in better cap shape over the long hall and we have a couple of extra picks.

Keeping Beckham and Vernon and signing Collins to an expensive deal would have left us in a very weak financial position for the future. Now, we have a talent level similar to what we would have had if we played this the way everyone expected. DG is navigating free agency very intelligently. It makes me wonder how so many idiots in the media don't see this.

+1
RE: What we seem to have done so far is replace players that we lost.  
the mike : 3/14/2019 8:56 pm : link
In comment 14338377 Ira said:
Quote:
Obviously Tate isn't as good as Beckham, but Zeitler is better than Brown and we're probably somewhat stronger at safety. So, all in all, we're about the same, talent wise, as we were in December. But we're in better cap shape over the long hall and we have a couple of extra picks.

Keeping Beckham and Vernon and signing Collins to an expensive deal would have left us in a very weak financial position for the future. Now, we have a talent level similar to what we would have had if we played this the way everyone expected. DG is navigating free agency very intelligently. It makes me wonder how so many idiots in the media don't see this.


Exactly right... And good reason to be excited about the draft... The pessimism on this site is truly beyond belief... Who needs enemies with friends like this!!

With Remmers and perhaps one more free agent on defense, the Giants will head into the draft with more promise than they have had in years. As stated elsewhere, the best players available in the draft are clearly on defense... I am confident Gettleman will ruthlessly stick to best player available drafting... If so, we will have our "Barkley" on defense (Allen, Gary, Sweat etc) and then add several additional immediate starters depending on how the chips fall.

There was no easy way to excise the lost decade of abysmal drafting and abominable management of talent... progress is painful...
this is a good move  
GiantsFan84 : 3/14/2019 9:05 pm : link
a very good move
I think we will be much better this year  
gtt350 : 3/14/2019 9:12 pm : link
just new energy, players playing to make a statement, and a very exciting draft to reshape us
RE: Mistake ...IF we use it to justify  
mrvax : 3/14/2019 9:14 pm : link
In comment 14338285 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
Skipping a great front 7 player (likely drop this year) at 6,17 or 37 to slightly reach for a medium quality tackle or simply decent or possibility at wr at those spots....


He has only a 1 year deal. If he has a very good year, the Giants may not want to re-sign him for big bucks.

If they could snag a good EDGE guy, they will.
The O.V. for Zeitler thing  
idiotsavant : 3/14/2019 9:17 pm : link
Looks like an A+ move.

The Beck's thing, I get it. Ok. Fine.

Safeties ..much improved so far. Good year to stockpile picks.

I'm still 100% on using first 3 or even first 4 picks on front 7 defenders. It's the market play.
Remember, OV missed lots of time  
idiotsavant : 3/14/2019 9:20 pm : link
Guards tend to play all offensive snaps.

That said, I could easily see us drafting front 3 even, first and second rounds, if the draft falls that way.
RE: What we seem to have done so far is replace players that we lost.  
GiantGrit : 3/14/2019 9:21 pm : link
In comment 14338377 Ira said:
Quote:
Obviously Tate isn't as good as Beckham, but Zeitler is better than Brown and we're probably somewhat stronger at safety. So, all in all, we're about the same, talent wise, as we were in December. But we're in better cap shape over the long hall and we have a couple of extra picks.

Keeping Beckham and Vernon and signing Collins to an expensive deal would have left us in a very weak financial position for the future. Now, we have a talent level similar to what we would have had if we played this the way everyone expected. DG is navigating free agency very intelligently. It makes me wonder how so many idiots in the media don't see this.


I think people are ignoring some of the common traits these guys possess. Markus Golden is a phenomenal teammate, a guy with a relentless work ethic. Tore his ACL and talked about it making him work even harder. Golden Tate is another lunch pail guy. Straight up grinder.

They are going for players they deem fits for the culture they desire. I know the culture word triggers people around here, i'm not trying to piss people off...but thats the very common trait i see through the draft and free agency.

The Giants are going for that non flashy but highly effective style of play. In some ways similar to the Patriots. Some call it boring - it can be. When done right, its beautiful. Solid fundamentals and wearing teams down over a game.

Key phrase - when done right.
RE: The O.V. for Zeitler thing  
nygiants16 : 3/14/2019 9:22 pm : link
In comment 14338464 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
Looks like an A+ move.

The Beck's thing, I get it. Ok. Fine.

Safeties ..much improved so far. Good year to stockpile picks.

I'm still 100% on using first 3 or even first 4 picks on front 7 defenders. It's the market play.


remeber you have lorenzo carter to who the giants love..

front 7 of carter, hill, timlinson, wynn, golden, goodson and ogletree is young and hungry...

I would like to add Houston as a vet in the linebacker room
RE: RE: What we seem to have done so far is replace players that we lost.  
arcarsenal : 3/14/2019 9:24 pm : link
In comment 14338479 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
In comment 14338377 Ira said:


Quote:


Obviously Tate isn't as good as Beckham, but Zeitler is better than Brown and we're probably somewhat stronger at safety. So, all in all, we're about the same, talent wise, as we were in December. But we're in better cap shape over the long hall and we have a couple of extra picks.

Keeping Beckham and Vernon and signing Collins to an expensive deal would have left us in a very weak financial position for the future. Now, we have a talent level similar to what we would have had if we played this the way everyone expected. DG is navigating free agency very intelligently. It makes me wonder how so many idiots in the media don't see this.



I think people are ignoring some of the common traits these guys possess. Markus Golden is a phenomenal teammate, a guy with a relentless work ethic. Tore his ACL and talked about it making him work even harder. Golden Tate is another lunch pail guy. Straight up grinder.

They are going for players they deem fits for the culture they desire. I know the culture word triggers people around here, i'm not trying to piss people off...but thats the very common trait i see through the draft and free agency.

The Giants are going for that non flashy but highly effective style of play. In some ways similar to the Patriots. Some call it boring - it can be. When done right, its beautiful. Solid fundamentals and wearing teams down over a game.

Key phrase - when done right.


This stuff matters. There's going to be a ton of pushback on this shit because of Stewart and the Captain America strategy Reese came out of nowhere with a few years ago - but the culture does matter.

Talent will win you many football games - but structure is key.
Great  
AcidTest : 3/14/2019 9:32 pm : link
signing. He has a lot of talent if he's recovered. He'll be eager to do well and become a FA next year. And if he leaves, we might get a comp pick in 2021.
16  
idiotsavant : 3/14/2019 9:36 pm : link
..........Pick#6,Hill,Pick#37,

Carterolb, Pick#17, Ogletree, Wynnolb

Or

.....Pick#6,Hill,Tomlinson

Carter,#17,.........Ogletree,#37
Comparison wise  
idiotsavant : 3/14/2019 9:48 pm : link
Markus Golden's weight/40 time comps to Kerry Wynn.
RE: Comparison wise  
Anakim : 3/14/2019 10:02 pm : link
In comment 14338545 idiotsavant said:
Quote:
Markus Golden's weight/40 time comps to Kerry Wynn.


Except Golden is shorter and more compact...
If Golden  
Dodge : 3/14/2019 10:10 pm : link
is healthy and plays 16 games, he is a total upgrade over Vernon.
RE: RE: RE: What we seem to have done so far is replace players that we lost.  
GiantGrit : 3/14/2019 10:13 pm : link
In comment 14338486 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 14338479 GiantGrit said:


Quote:


In comment 14338377 Ira said:


Quote:


Obviously Tate isn't as good as Beckham, but Zeitler is better than Brown and we're probably somewhat stronger at safety. So, all in all, we're about the same, talent wise, as we were in December. But we're in better cap shape over the long hall and we have a couple of extra picks.

Keeping Beckham and Vernon and signing Collins to an expensive deal would have left us in a very weak financial position for the future. Now, we have a talent level similar to what we would have had if we played this the way everyone expected. DG is navigating free agency very intelligently. It makes me wonder how so many idiots in the media don't see this.



I think people are ignoring some of the common traits these guys possess. Markus Golden is a phenomenal teammate, a guy with a relentless work ethic. Tore his ACL and talked about it making him work even harder. Golden Tate is another lunch pail guy. Straight up grinder.

They are going for players they deem fits for the culture they desire. I know the culture word triggers people around here, i'm not trying to piss people off...but thats the very common trait i see through the draft and free agency.

The Giants are going for that non flashy but highly effective style of play. In some ways similar to the Patriots. Some call it boring - it can be. When done right, its beautiful. Solid fundamentals and wearing teams down over a game.

Key phrase - when done right.



This stuff matters. There's going to be a ton of pushback on this shit because of Stewart and the Captain America strategy Reese came out of nowhere with a few years ago - but the culture does matter.

Talent will win you many football games - but structure is key.


Agreed Arc
He sure looked like he'd lost a step or two last year  
yatqb : 3/14/2019 10:38 pm : link
compared to before the injury. Hopefully he continues to improve from the ACL.
Bettcher  
NYFootballGiants : 3/15/2019 12:44 am : link
knows how to use the talent he's given. This is a guy he's worked with before who had a breakout season in his scheme. Great signing.
RE: If Golden  
NoGainDayne : 3/15/2019 1:37 am : link
In comment 14338607 Dodge said:
Quote:
is healthy and plays 16 games, he is a total upgrade over Vernon.


I came here to talk about how this is the second move other than Zeitler that didn't totally make me hate my life as a Giants fan and then I read this and i'm right back there.

Vernon? You mean the guy that was 3rd in the league in pressures for the 2nd half of the year last year that the Browns decided they wanted to trade a pro bowl caliber player for and pay $15.5 million dollars this year. A guy with 2.5 sacks and 10 QB hits the last 2 years compared with Vernon's 13.5 and 33 QB hits?

Adding the caveat if he's healthy and plays 16 games he's an upgrade? A guy that has actually played less games than Vernon the last two years by 8. Vernon the guy that is constantly lambasted for being injury prone. Now Golden gets to play 16 games in this spectacular fantasy land that you live in? How many games does Vernon play in this world where Golden is the model of health and an upgrade?

Why does your fantasy stop at perfect health for Golden? Can't we just have Aaron Donald instead?
This draft may have an Aron Donald in it  
idiotsavant : 3/15/2019 4:20 am : link
(Or two)

Which is the point.

Here is to hoping (Mara) wont use this as an excuse to force an O pick in Rd 1.
I would have been satisfied  
Gman11 : 3/15/2019 7:29 am : link
with Marcus Silver!
RE: RE: If Golden  
bLiTz 2k : 3/15/2019 7:39 am : link
In comment 14338755 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 14338607 Dodge said:


Quote:


is healthy and plays 16 games, he is a total upgrade over Vernon.



I came here to talk about how this is the second move other than Zeitler that didn't totally make me hate my life as a Giants fan and then I read this and i'm right back there.

Vernon? You mean the guy that was 3rd in the league in pressures for the 2nd half of the year last year that the Browns decided they wanted to trade a pro bowl caliber player for and pay $15.5 million dollars this year. A guy with 2.5 sacks and 10 QB hits the last 2 years compared with Vernon's 13.5 and 33 QB hits?

Adding the caveat if he's healthy and plays 16 games he's an upgrade? A guy that has actually played less games than Vernon the last two years by 8. Vernon the guy that is constantly lambasted for being injury prone. Now Golden gets to play 16 games in this spectacular fantasy land that you live in? How many games does Vernon play in this world where Golden is the model of health and an upgrade?

Why does your fantasy stop at perfect health for Golden? Can't we just have Aaron Donald instead?


Iím with you Vernon totally got a bad rep by Giants fans. I didnít like the injury prone mantra, I think the guy hit some hard luck during his time here.

Where I think the comparisons hit the grey area for me, is that I actually feel Vernon is a better 4-3 end and Golden is a better 3-4 OLB. Both players are in better scheme fits for 2019 IMO. If both stay healthy I think both players are in a better fit.
yatqb  
bc4life : 3/15/2019 7:39 am : link
and he wasn't a fast explosive guy to begin with. his things seemed to be hard work, effort, and strength. I'm confident that Bettcher will get the most of what he brings to the table though.
While I liked Vernon,  
section125 : 3/15/2019 8:08 am : link
he seemed to be 1 step late all the time, when he wasn't getting a roughing the passer penalty. He played hard, gave what he could but was always injured. He beat lower level tackles, but rarely did anything against the upper level players.
My opinion is he came nowhere close to earning that big contract. It was not from lack of effort. My one word to describe him - "almost" - as in he almost got there.
RE: so does bbi see a plan or do most continue to bad mouth everything  
giantstock : 3/15/2019 8:11 am : link
In comment 14338088 plato said:
Quote:
this FO does? the emotional cycles on the site and the animosity has almost become unbearable. agree with signing of defensive Golden, wait to see about offensive Golden.
Hope to see aĒkindler and gentlerĒ bbi to say nothing of wiser.


You're kidding, right? You just started following the Giants this year? How well do you think the team has performed after 2011?
RE: RE: If Golden  
giants#1 : 3/15/2019 9:09 am : link
In comment 14338755 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
In comment 14338607 Dodge said:


Quote:


is healthy and plays 16 games, he is a total upgrade over Vernon.



I came here to talk about how this is the second move other than Zeitler that didn't totally make me hate my life as a Giants fan and then I read this and i'm right back there.

Vernon? You mean the guy that was 3rd in the league in pressures for the 2nd half of the year last year that the Browns decided they wanted to trade a pro bowl caliber player for and pay $15.5 million dollars this year. A guy with 2.5 sacks and 10 QB hits the last 2 years compared with Vernon's 13.5 and 33 QB hits?

Adding the caveat if he's healthy and plays 16 games he's an upgrade? A guy that has actually played less games than Vernon the last two years by 8. Vernon the guy that is constantly lambasted for being injury prone. Now Golden gets to play 16 games in this spectacular fantasy land that you live in? How many games does Vernon play in this world where Golden is the model of health and an upgrade?

Why does your fantasy stop at perfect health for Golden? Can't we just have Aaron Donald instead?


Vernon definitely gets a bad rap here, largely because of the expectations that came with his contract, but I think you're selling Golden short:

1. Most of his games missed are due to a single injury that cost him most of 2017 and the start of 2018. For someone that likes stats as much as you, you sure are twisting things to suit your case.
2. Golden had 110 pressures in his first 2 seasons, both under Bettcher as a 34 OLB. In 2016 alone, he had 53 pressures (12.5 sacks which is better than OV's career high) and 41 run stops which was good for 4th most among edge defenders.



If both stay healthy, it'll be interesting to see who has the better year.
Link - ( New Window )
I really liked Vernon  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2019 9:13 am : link
always gave 110% but always had an injury to battle through. Just got snake-bit once he signed here. Also had really bad luck with closing in on sacks when all the hard work getting there was done. Just a very strange situation.

Looking forward to see if Golden can capitalize.
RE: RE: RE: If Golden  
Big Blue '56 : 3/15/2019 9:20 am : link
In comment 14339187 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14338755 NoGainDayne said:


Quote:


In comment 14338607 Dodge said:


Quote:


is healthy and plays 16 games, he is a total upgrade over Vernon.



I came here to talk about how this is the second move other than Zeitler that didn't totally make me hate my life as a Giants fan and then I read this and i'm right back there.

Vernon? You mean the guy that was 3rd in the league in pressures for the 2nd half of the year last year that the Browns decided they wanted to trade a pro bowl caliber player for and pay $15.5 million dollars this year. A guy with 2.5 sacks and 10 QB hits the last 2 years compared with Vernon's 13.5 and 33 QB hits?

Adding the caveat if he's healthy and plays 16 games he's an upgrade? A guy that has actually played less games than Vernon the last two years by 8. Vernon the guy that is constantly lambasted for being injury prone. Now Golden gets to play 16 games in this spectacular fantasy land that you live in? How many games does Vernon play in this world where Golden is the model of health and an upgrade?

Why does your fantasy stop at perfect health for Golden? Can't we just have Aaron Donald instead?



Vernon definitely gets a bad rap here, largely because of the expectations that came with his contract, but I think you're selling Golden short:

1. Most of his games missed are due to a single injury that cost him most of 2017 and the start of 2018. For someone that likes stats as much as you, you sure are twisting things to suit your case.
2. Golden had 110 pressures in his first 2 seasons, both under Bettcher as a 34 OLB. In 2016 alone, he had 53 pressures (12.5 sacks which is better than OV's career high) and 41 run stops which was good for 4th most among edge defenders.



If both stay healthy, it'll be interesting to see who has the better year. Link - ( New Window )


Understand the poster. ANYTHING DG does will come under ridicule. In fairness, he is not alone.
I just said I liked the Zeitler and Golden moves  
NoGainDayne : 3/15/2019 9:52 am : link
you are misinterpreting my points so Iíll make them again very succinctly.

Gettleman / Maraís are not following analytical frameworks that have proven to work IE sticking with an aging and declining QB, or picking an RB very high in the draft without having surrounding talent and especially a discounted formula.

Even if they were making all the right moves there is plenty of evidence that the orginization is not investing in analytical frameworks that have worked very well for other teams, some decades and are likely to become even more vital to have in the near future.

I donít think everything Gettleman does is wrong, I donít think anyone here does. I would say what is more common and strange is some suggesting everything he and the team does is right especially considering the product they have been putting on the field, and the very clear errors that Gettleman has already made.
And Iím sorry if you donít see the ridiculous in the statement  
NoGainDayne : 3/15/2019 9:53 am : link
if Golden is healthy heís an upgrade over Vernon is insane I donít know what to tell you. But again, Iíd like to reiterate I like this move
I think the way Eli's been handled has been poor  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2019 9:56 am : link
and again, if you believe DG doesn't want to move on from him I don't know what to tell you.

Mara, IMO, dictated that Eli stays. I have no doubt DG signed up for trying it but, again its my opinion, would absolutely move on from him if he could after what he saw last season. You keep lobbing all of this analytical nonsense out there like DG's has full authority to implement whatever he wants - he doesn't.

So blame the owner is my point. DG has done a lot of good here. He's also done some bad (the 2018 FA's) but I truly don't think he's allowed to implement his full vision.
RE: Bettcher  
christian : 3/15/2019 9:57 am : link
In comment 14338741 NYFootballGiants said:
Quote:
knows how to use the talent he's given. This is a guy he's worked with before who had a breakout season in his scheme. Great signing.


This general logic about using Bettcher using talent was applied to Martin, and he turned out to be a part-time, low-impact player.

Let's be real; the Giants, the market, and the player know this is a low-risk/high-reward move on a player coming off a serious injury and an unimpressive year.
RE: I think the way Eli's been handled has been poor  
Brown Recluse : 3/15/2019 10:05 am : link
In comment 14339351 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
and again, if you believe DG doesn't want to move on from him I don't know what to tell you.

Mara, IMO, dictated that Eli stays. I have no doubt DG signed up for trying it but, again its my opinion, would absolutely move on from him if he could after what he saw last season. You keep lobbing all of this analytical nonsense out there like DG's has full authority to implement whatever he wants - he doesn't.

So blame the owner is my point. DG has done a lot of good here. He's also done some bad (the 2018 FA's) but I truly don't think he's allowed to implement his full vision.


I agree with this bit on Gettleman and the owners. And I think Gettleman wants to be the fall guy because he feels thats part of his role. He said as much in his presser.
One more thing BB56  
NoGainDayne : 3/15/2019 10:14 am : link
like you Iíve been posting on this board for a long time 20 years in fact. Never in my history have I been someone thatís hypercritical of management or down on the Giants. I did start a Cordy Glenn over David Wilson draft day thread that did turn out to be a good call but thatís really the only time I found myself really questioning something with any kind of real force.

Fast forward to last year Iím sitting at the Saints game just watching Shurmur completely bungle time-out usage by sitting on them and then overcompensating the next game using too many. Both really hurting the team with something I could build a solution for them myself in a few weeks. This is something we really enjoyed doing together up until last year. I donít know how many years we have left to do this together. Weíve seen this team even with a new GM continue to make mistakes and not show a tremendous grasp of how to value things, manage a coherent strategy (Landon Collins is glaring here) and whatís worse doesnít seem to show that they understand the type of employer you have to be to succceed in modern times with commitments to innovation, demonstrated open mindedness and a care for what your employees think of you not just how they ďbehave.Ē

I donít hate everything they they are doing but frankly even if they werenít making these mistakes along the way they are still making some massive ones with this clinginess to traditional management attitudes and refusal or perhaps inability to attract and hire high quality engineering talent. Flame me all you want, act like Iím just trying to be here to be a malcontent, sure if that makes you feel better bottom line is Iím trying to use the knowledge of my strengths (AI, systems architecture, organizational psych) and get the fan base more concerned with these things that HAVE to change sooner or later and are just flatly not being addressed or addressed quickly enough.

The people Iím arguing on the other side of? I canít understand their goals or purpose, I canít understand why they arenít more empathetic towards me or people like me that are tired of watching this and are actually bringing a perspective to the table with technology that many people donít have access to.
RE: One more thing BB56  
Big Blue '56 : 3/15/2019 10:19 am : link
In comment 14339440 NoGainDayne said:
Quote:
like you Iíve been posting on this board for a long time 20 years in fact. Never in my history have I been someone thatís hypercritical of management or down on the Giants. I did start a Cordy Glenn over David Wilson draft day thread that did turn out to be a good call but thatís really the only time I found myself really questioning something with any kind of real force.

Fast forward to last year Iím sitting at the Saints game just watching Shurmur completely bungle time-out usage by sitting on them and then overcompensating the next game using too many. Both really hurting the team with something I could build a solution for them myself in a few weeks. This is something we really enjoyed doing together up until last year. I donít know how many years we have left to do this together. Weíve seen this team even with a new GM continue to make mistakes and not show a tremendous grasp of how to value things, manage a coherent strategy (Landon Collins is glaring here) and whatís worse doesnít seem to show that they understand the type of employer you have to be to succceed in modern times with commitments to innovation, demonstrated open mindedness and a care for what your employees think of you not just how they ďbehave.Ē

I donít hate everything they they are doing but frankly even if they werenít making these mistakes along the way they are still making some massive ones with this clinginess to traditional management attitudes and refusal or perhaps inability to attract and hire high quality engineering talent. Flame me all you want, act like Iím just trying to be here to be a malcontent, sure if that makes you feel better bottom line is Iím trying to use the knowledge of my strengths (AI, systems architecture, organizational psych) and get the fan base more concerned with these things that HAVE to change sooner or later and are just flatly not being addressed or addressed quickly enough.

The people Iím arguing on the other side of? I canít understand their goals or purpose, I canít understand why they arenít more empathetic towards me or people like me that are tired of watching this and are actually bringing a perspective to the table with technology that many people donít have access to.


I totally understand your angst
RE: RE: Bettcher  
GiantGrit : 3/15/2019 11:01 am : link
In comment 14339358 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 14338741 NYFootballGiants said:


Quote:


knows how to use the talent he's given. This is a guy he's worked with before who had a breakout season in his scheme. Great signing.



This general logic about using Bettcher using talent was applied to Martin, and he turned out to be a part-time, low-impact player.

Let's be real; the Giants, the market, and the player know this is a low-risk/high-reward move on a player coming off a serious injury and an unimpressive year.


Not wrong but ignoring the fact his agent specifically mentioned reuniting with Bettcher.
I do really love how the exact same people who...  
Greg from LI : 3/15/2019 11:39 am : link
...love to run Collins down because "Durrr, he was only good two years ago" are wetting their pants in excitement over Golden....who was only good two years ago.
RE: I think the way Eli's been handled has been poor  
Greg from LI : 3/15/2019 11:43 am : link
In comment 14339351 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
So blame the owner is my point. DG has done a lot of good here. He's also done some bad (the 2018 FA's) but I truly don't think he's allowed to implement his full vision.


Those dastardly Maras are kneecapping that genius Dave Gettleman!

This is a 68 year old man who has all of, what, five years as a general manager, marked by no particular distinction, a guy who upon being canned by Carolina was there for anyone to hire. But, of course, no one was interested.....except the Giants, who almost pathologically refuse to hire anyone other than people who already worked for him.

Yet we are constantly told how we simply must have complete blind faith in everything this man does. Based on what, exactly?
RE: I do really love how the exact same people who...  
Brown Recluse : 3/15/2019 11:47 am : link
In comment 14339741 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
...love to run Collins down because "Durrr, he was only good two years ago" are wetting their pants in excitement over Golden....who was only good two years ago.


The difference is pretty clear, unless you're looking at the situation with some sort of negative bias (which you do all the time)

Collins play didn't drop because he was hurt. His deficiencies were exposed over and over again on the field. Golden was an ascending player who simply got hurt. If he's fully healed, there's no reason to believe he won't be good again. And its perfectly fine to hope thats the case.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/15/2019 11:49 am : link
Golden is a win-win - either he returns to form, helps us out, and nets us compensation if he walks for a big, longer-term deal - and if he sucks, or gets hurt again, it's a 1 year commit and we have no dead money or long-term BS to worry about.

Can't really see any way to not like it. There's virtually zero risk and tangible benefit.
Actually, I think it's one of the few smart things Mr. Magoo has done  
Greg from LI : 3/15/2019 11:52 am : link
It's a low risk signing with some upside potential, but let's not pretend that we just signed Reggie White Jr, either.
RE: I do really love how the exact same people who...  
giants#1 : 3/15/2019 11:54 am : link
In comment 14339741 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
...love to run Collins down because "Durrr, he was only good two years ago" are wetting their pants in excitement over Golden....who was only good two years ago.


Collins missed a season due to an ACL tear? Collins did switch from a 43 D to a 34 D (reverse of Golden) but that shouldn't be as big a change for a SS as an OLB/edge rusher.
RE: Actually, I think it's one of the few smart things Mr. Magoo has done  
Brown Recluse : 3/15/2019 11:55 am : link
In comment 14339792 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
It's a low risk signing with some upside potential, but let's not pretend that we just signed Reggie White Jr, either.


No one's pretending he's Reggie White, Greg. Lets not exaggerate.
RE: Actually, I think it's one of the few smart things Mr. Magoo has done  
giants#1 : 3/15/2019 11:56 am : link
In comment 14339792 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
It's a low risk signing with some upside potential, but let's not pretend that we just signed Reggie White Jr, either.


More like we replaced Vernon with a comparable player while significantly upgrading the OL.
RE: Actually, I think it's one of the few smart things Mr. Magoo has done  
arcarsenal : 3/15/2019 12:54 pm : link
In comment 14339792 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
It's a low risk signing with some upside potential, but let's not pretend that we just signed Reggie White Jr, either.


I don't think anyone here is pretending that...
I donít think anyone thinks Collins sucks bc he had 1 bad yr either  
Eric on Li : 3/15/2019 1:11 pm : link
He may not be the best scheme fit here but heís a good player and we are going to miss him.
Watch, Collins will wind up as an all-pro LB,  
Big Blue '56 : 3/15/2019 1:39 pm : link
something he didnít want to play here
Were the numbers posted yet? This is peanuts  
Brown Recluse : 3/15/2019 1:42 pm : link
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Markus Golden: 1 year deal worth up to $3.75M with $2.225M gtd, per source.
Great job  
AcesUp : 3/15/2019 1:46 pm : link
That's a signing right there.
That's a good signing  
ajr2456 : 3/15/2019 1:51 pm : link
Hopefully he returns to pre injury form and we keep him
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