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How is this a bad D?

Section131 : 3/14/2019 7:05 pm
Golden, Tomlinson, Hill, Carter, Goodson, Ogletree, Beal, Jackrabbit, Peppers, Bethea to start. And DG will add to it. That's a very good start.

Golden- prove it 1 year deal
Tomlinson- year 3 breakout
Hill and Carter- showed great signs as rookies
Goodson- good inside backer
Ogletree- came on strong end of year
Beal- the 1 piece we don't know but has potential
Jackrabbit- capable
Peppers- love
Bethea- old but serviceable

What's not to like here?
Patience.  
Big Blue '56 : 3/14/2019 7:06 pm : link
Rest of FA coming up and a D filled draft from what I read, at least in the earlier rounds
RE: Patience.  
Section131 : 3/14/2019 7:07 pm : link
In comment 14338142 Big Blue '56 said:
Quote:
Rest of FA coming up and a D filled draft from what I read, at least in the earlier rounds


Agree!!! DG working his magic!
Getting Peppers and Bethea has turned it from  
mattnyg05 : 3/14/2019 7:07 pm : link
"this is scary bad" to at least serviceable. Golden adds a pass rusher. It is an NFL defense at least now. Let's see what they do in the draft. Lots of picks.
Still need more pass rush  
Pan-handler : 3/14/2019 7:08 pm : link
And a 2nd vet CB. Beal is essentially a rookie. And another LB. But its starting to come together
Need to replace Goodson  
Jim Bur(n)t : 3/14/2019 7:08 pm : link
He is horrible... Cant cover & gets caught up in the trash.
we need better than....  
BillKo : 3/14/2019 7:09 pm : link
...Goodson at ILB.

To me...he's a depth guy, not a starter.

Still not enough pass rush  
The_Boss : 3/14/2019 7:09 pm : link
Iím sure Edge rushers will help alleviate that in the draft.
Let me ask this though;
Where would you rank this defense in the division right now? If you say anything other than last, youíre not being truthful.
I see 2 average strong safeties..  
chuckydee9 : 3/14/2019 7:09 pm : link
no FS.. I also see 2 LB that can't cover.. and did we forget how bad our run defense was after we traded snacks? all of the run stoppers you listed there were in the trenches for us last year and we couldn't stop shit.. just go back and watch the dallas game.. the titans games.. 4th Q of Indy game..
RE: Need to replace Goodson  
Jim Bur(n)t : 3/14/2019 7:10 pm : link
In comment 14338151 Jim Bur(n)t said:
Quote:
He is horrible... Cant cover & gets caught up in the trash.


Addendum - Bring on Devin White!
RE: Still need more pass rush  
Section131 : 3/14/2019 7:10 pm : link
In comment 14338149 Pan-handler said:
Quote:
And a 2nd vet CB. Beal is essentially a rookie. And another LB. But its starting to come together


and we have some depth in Mauro and Martin if they stick.
I agree  
BillT : 3/14/2019 7:10 pm : link
Tomlinson and Hill are talented young players who moved positions last year. A big jump in production for them is realistic. We went from zero safeties to a couple of solid vets. Jenkins, Beal and Hailey are a good tart at CB. Carter has some interesting skills and now Golden on the other side.
They just need  
phil in arizona : 3/14/2019 7:11 pm : link
Chandler Jones and Calais Campbell.
RE: I see 2 average strong safeties..  
Section131 : 3/14/2019 7:12 pm : link
In comment 14338160 chuckydee9 said:
Quote:
no FS.. I also see 2 LB that can't cover.. and did we forget how bad our run defense was after we traded snacks? all of the run stoppers you listed there were in the trenches for us last year and we couldn't stop shit.. just go back and watch the dallas game.. the titans games.. 4th Q of Indy game..


I can see Oliver being the slide guy in 1st round like James was last year. I'd be okay with a DG trade up to grab him if he falls around 15. Throw Oliver in the middle to clog/pressure.

I think too much is made of the LBs.
Gary-Tomlinson-Hill  
ryanmkeane : 3/14/2019 7:17 pm : link
Golden-Ogletree-Goodson-Carter

Sign me up
RE: RE: Patience.  
DavidinBMNY : 3/14/2019 7:23 pm : link
In comment 14338143 Section131 said:
Quote:
In comment 14338142 Big Blue '56 said:


Quote:


Rest of FA coming up and a D filled draft from what I read, at least in the earlier rounds



Agree!!! DG working his magic!
The team needs depth. Reese would take these teams into the season with nothing on the bench. You lose a guy - your done. DG will add depth. They defintely need more pass rush and more DB. Here's to hoping they add a lot of good football players with the draft. Interestingly there is a ton of mid round WR talent available which is a little unusual. It might be one of the deepest positions for middle of the draft along with RB. There will be a lot of #2/#3 WR + RBS sucked up in rounds 4 and 5.
Goodson  
Tim in Eternal Blue : 3/14/2019 7:31 pm : link
Is a good 1-2 down LB. I've always liked him.
Here here section 131  
5BowlsSoon : 3/14/2019 7:37 pm : link
I like your thinking here and you made it very visual for us to see. Most of us need the visual.

It appears Goodson is the least appreciated guy here so it sounds like of all the guys you named he is the one most would say we should upgrade. Well, we do have plenty of draft picks even if DG doesnít grab a free agent LB....and there are several interesting LB guys out there I hope we are looking at.

Things are trending up, indeed.
Until we prove otherwise we still have no passrush,  
yatqb : 3/14/2019 7:56 pm : link
our LBs can't cover, we are weak at CB, and we have no depth.

We're going to emphasize D in the draft for a reason.
This kind of stuff would be funny  
Greg from LI : 3/14/2019 7:57 pm : link
If it weren't so sad
there's nothing..  
FranchiseQB : 3/14/2019 8:17 pm : link
wrong with anything... nothing to see here. please move along.
Glad to See The Delusion Is Not Limited to the FO  
Giants38 : 3/14/2019 8:39 pm : link
The D is horrid. I really donít know any other way to put it. The Interior DL is ok, and I suppose our safeties are ok now, but the rest of the D is plain awful. I urge people here to look at Mike Clayís chart which graded teams according to unit metrics, this morning. The Giants were second from the bottom. Only people here can shovel the crap necessary to make others believe this team is on the cusp of something.

But you point to the numbers, people say ignore them. I just donít get it. If you think this D - or this team - is anything other than bottom of the barrel, you are lockstep with DG.
I'm three sheets to the wind...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/14/2019 8:41 pm : link
But we might not suck.
this D will surprise  
Lines of Scrimmage : 3/14/2019 8:47 pm : link
They won't be Top 5 but they are going to play hard and hungry and be well-coached. I think we will all be happy. The big issue will be injuries......you never know. They will need another draft and free agency to have the depth if those injuries to surface.
You forgot Kareem Martin  
Foobarbaz : 3/14/2019 8:49 pm : link
!
Assuming DG isn't packaging our #1's and WR Shepard for AZ #1  
SGMen : 3/14/2019 9:01 pm : link
and QB Murray (I hope not... LOL), yes, a good draft could really make this defense functional.

#6 - LB D. White, a solid player & pick assuming edge rushers are all gone.
#17 - RT - we need an OL with upside to possibly grow into a LT. If we sign Remmers, he could be a good fill-in.O
2nd round - OC or OG - I think DG will draft quality OL's if the value is there. Or he could take a DL that fell due to the "numbers" game - always happens.
3rd RD - defense, WR
Rest of draft - bodies that can run, hit, catch, whatever, just hope they can play as rookies and impact special teams.
Giants need  
XBRONX : 3/14/2019 9:18 pm : link
starters. They would be stupid to draft a backup OG in the second round.
RE: I'm three sheets to the wind...  
Boy Cord : 3/14/2019 9:18 pm : link
In comment 14338413 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
But we might not suck.


On a Thursday night? Are you in college?
RE: RE: I'm three sheets to the wind...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 3/14/2019 9:26 pm : link
In comment 14338469 Boy Cord said:
Quote:
In comment 14338413 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


But we might not suck.



On a Thursday night? Are you in college?


Trivia night.
Slowest defense in the NFL  
HomerJones45 : 3/14/2019 9:30 pm : link
Jesus, these guys couldn't run their grandmothers down.
RE: Until we prove otherwise we still have no passrush,  
TyreeHelmet : 3/14/2019 9:40 pm : link
In comment 14338342 yatqb said:
Quote:
our LBs can't cover, we are weak at CB, and we have no depth.

We're going to emphasize D in the draft for a reason.


This is spot on. Not sure how anyone can view this as a good defense. They donít have any standout players at any of the positions. Zero players that will sniff all pro or even a pro bowl.
We were bad last year  
Mike in Boston : 3/14/2019 9:47 pm : link
and replaced our best safety with one who isn't as good and ditto with our best pass rusher. Yes, they are cheaper, but so what. If Bethea hasn't lost too many steps he will be a little better than Riley. On the other hand we traded Apple for a draft pick unlikely to produce a starter, and lost Webb in FA so we are down to one competent corner, plus Beal coming off a red-shirt rookie year. So, at least so far, we are significantly worse than last year's unit. Which was horrific, especially after the mid-season fire sale.

Now we do have 2 first round picks and a second to try to fill those holes (the remaining 9 picks should produce some serviceable depth. We will be lucky to get one quality starter out of all 9.) But we not only need defenders but also a starting WR (the 30 year old Golden Tate is at best a 3rd WR, wildly overpaid) and a QB of the future and a right offensive tackle.
Add in a blue chip front seven defender  
djm : 3/14/2019 9:56 pm : link
And maybe another 2nd or 3rd rounder and Iíd feel hopeful at least long term. The DL isnít half bad at all and itís young. LB.... uninspiring but carter is intriguing. Ogletree solid vet and then itís limited. The LB unit is desperate for star power no matter how you slice it. DBs are taking shape but thatís with the belief that Sam Beal is going to emerge as a decent starter. Kind of a tall order....

Couple years ago  
theold5j : 3/14/2019 10:38 pm : link
Remember when Dallas was predicted to have the worst defense in NFL history. They went like 13-3. Who the fuck knows what's gonna happen.
RE: Couple years ago  
mrvax : 3/14/2019 11:24 pm : link
In comment 14338655 theold5j said:
Quote:
Remember when Dallas was predicted to have the worst defense in NFL history. They went like 13-3. Who the fuck knows what's gonna happen.


Very true. The OP made a good case for what we have now plus a few good draft picks on defense, there is a good chance the D will be OK.
I do like that the D is being built with young players  
djm : 3/14/2019 11:38 pm : link
Iím not really torn on the draft as much as I would be happy with either direction. If the giants moved up for murray Iíd be happy if they stood pat and focused on D Iíd be happy. Ideally they stay at six and somehow get the qb anyway then take D the rest of the way. Either way Iím good but it would be nice to see a young blue chip LB/ edge rusher or DL added to the mix. Then you might really have something with staying power.
...  
christian : 3/14/2019 11:43 pm : link
The only demonstrably better, foundational player the Giants have added so far on defense is Peppers. He's going to be dynamite.

Golden had a very productive year 2 years ago -- and hopefully he's healthy. But reality is he's coming off an injury that can really slow a player's quickness. He's got much to prove.

Hopefully this frees the Giants up to cut ties with Martin, that'd be a plus.

Bethea's obviously not in the long-term plan.

There's plenty of offseason left, and the Giants will add more players, but that defense listed in the OP isn't scary in the least.

That defense looks about 31st in the league  
Justlurking : 3/15/2019 12:21 am : link
Which is what it was last season.
RE: RE: I'm three sheets to the wind...  
Bill in UT : 3/15/2019 12:44 am : link
In comment 14338469 Boy Cord said:
Quote:




On a Thursday night? Are you in college?


I'm retired. Every night is Saturday night. L'Chaim
Pepper is going to be  
Bill in UT : 3/15/2019 12:51 am : link
better than Collins. A healthy Golden will be better than Vernon. And Beal, hopefully, will be a #2 CB. Throw in Bethea and this D is already better than last year.
That's a bad D - you can find reasons each player is useful  
Eric on Li : 3/15/2019 1:04 am : link
but even more ways to pick apart each of them as well. Collectively there's not enough pass rush, there's just 1 proven CB in a league where good defenses have 3, and he's aging, not a single LB who can handle coverage responsibilities, and on the DL I'd actually say they are a little bit undersized (at least at the nose). I like Tomlinson, but in a 3-4 I'm not sure he can hold up at the point all year - especially without any backup.

Now obviously the draft hasn't happened yet, but even if they spent all 12 picks on the defense they'd have their work cut out for them to make this a positive impact unit. There are needs not just at every level, but multiple. They could use both a nose and another end. They need another edge rusher to rotate with Carter/Golden and an interior backer who can cover the middle of the field since Ogletree...can't. They not only need a 2nd boundary CB but also a nickel. They have half of a defense at best, and it's not even the good half. Maybe Golden can get back to his 10 sack days and Carter can have a career year, but even in that best case scenario, is either guy ever going to demand a double team? Does anyone in the entire front 7?

I said it on another thread, my preference with those first 2 picks (if they don't see a QB they like) is to double up on the front 7 - which seems to be the indisputable strength of the draft from the top 3 players down. This unit severely needs at least 1 guy that keeps offenses up at night. They currently have 0. The best chance they have of changing that IMO is grabbing 2 from the group of Devin White, Ed Oliver, Montez Sweat, Christian Wilkins, Brian Burns, Clelin Ferrell, etc. Grab 2 and hope like hell 1 of them can be the guy who changes the entire defense from day 1 like Vander Esch/Derwin James/Darius Leonard last year.
Questions on the D  
giantstock : 3/15/2019 9:03 am : link
1--- Tomlinson is better usited in a 4/3 thna a nT in 3/4 isn;t he?

2-- Just beucase Gmen draft a 6th pick pass rusher that means he'll autmoaitcally tirn otgold?

3--- Markus Golden may not ever beteh same, right?

4-- Their ILB's one issubpar or average at bets and the other is no good, right?

5-- at CB do u you know what you're getting in Beal? ANd as for JJ - he is still decent enough but he is not "very good" anymore is he?

6-- Just because Bethea is better than what was before doens't mean that he is good does it?

7-- Giants won't be drafting all defense no will every pick hit.
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