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Here's where we stand

jtgiants : 3/15/2019 1:29 am
1. Well know on Remmers, one way or the other, by this afternoon.

2.were not do nb e on defense. Golden was a big get but we aren't done.

3. Have the Giants made there last trade? Hmmmm

4. I've said this for days. Giants honestly want to win. This year. There on a mission. They believe there better without Beckham then with him. Him not playing at the end of last season was truly the final straw but there's more the media doesn't know
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Mike, I think the defense will be a better because we're going to  
yatqb : 3/15/2019 11:47 am : link
draft an impact player or two in the draft, plus a bunch of depth players. Hoe many impact players did we have on D last year? And if we sign someone like Houston, we'll already have two better 3/4 rushers than we had last year.

Sure we'll be depending upon rookies in some cases, but rookies with a lot better talent than some of the guys we had to rely upon last year.
RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
giants#1 : 3/15/2019 11:49 am : link
In comment 14339739 mikeinbloomfield said:
Quote:

Ok, let's pretend Peppers is going to be better than Collins. Will the defense be better overall? Why or why not? The idea that this team is going to compete next year is a joke. Which would be fine if the team was addressing its long term needs at the most important position, but it appears that they are not. Call that 'unhappy with the team direction' but I don't know how you can be anything else.


Will the D be better? They were 24th in yards allowed (371.4 per game) last season and 23rd in scoring D (25.8 pts/game) so there's certainly plenty of room for improvement.

Let's look at the moves they've made on D (to date):
Riley -> Bethea huge upgrade
Collins -> Peppers let's call it a push, though at this time next year I think we'll view it an upgrade
Vernon -> Golden push - who plays more games in 2019?
Webb -> Beal TBD

I think those are the current changes to the starters and overall I'd say we marginally improved with the potential for significant improvement depending mainly on Beal and if Peppers continues his upward trend.

The rest of the D had several 1st/2nd year players that I also think will be better this year and/or play more significant roles: Hill, Tomlinson, and Carter

But the offseason isn't over yet. I fully expect at least 2 of our 3 top 37 picks to be on the defensive side, including #6 (edge rusher). I don't think we'll end up making 12 picks, but between the draft and undrafted FAs, I'd guess we add at least another 6-8 players to the D which will hopefully improve both the starters (Day 1-2 draft picks) and depth.

So yes, I think the D can go from bottom 1/3 to average next year.
RE: If the phrase addition by subtraction reigns  
Thegratefulhead : 3/15/2019 11:50 am : link
In comment 14339669 dep026 said:
Quote:
true for our offseason..... The Giants are going to be a fun team to watch again. Just need to hit on some defensive players in the draft.
I agree with this.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
mikeinbloomfield : 3/15/2019 11:52 am : link
In comment 14339781 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14339739 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:



Ok, let's pretend Peppers is going to be better than Collins. Will the defense be better overall? Why or why not? The idea that this team is going to compete next year is a joke. Which would be fine if the team was addressing its long term needs at the most important position, but it appears that they are not. Call that 'unhappy with the team direction' but I don't know how you can be anything else.



Will the D be better? They were 24th in yards allowed (371.4 per game) last season and 23rd in scoring D (25.8 pts/game) so there's certainly plenty of room for improvement.

Let's look at the moves they've made on D (to date):
Riley -> Bethea huge upgrade
Collins -> Peppers let's call it a push, though at this time next year I think we'll view it an upgrade
Vernon -> Golden push - who plays more games in 2019?
Webb -> Beal TBD

I think those are the current changes to the starters and overall I'd say we marginally improved with the potential for significant improvement depending mainly on Beal and if Peppers continues his upward trend.

The rest of the D had several 1st/2nd year players that I also think will be better this year and/or play more significant roles: Hill, Tomlinson, and Carter

But the offseason isn't over yet. I fully expect at least 2 of our 3 top 37 picks to be on the defensive side, including #6 (edge rusher). I don't think we'll end up making 12 picks, but between the draft and undrafted FAs, I'd guess we add at least another 6-8 players to the D which will hopefully improve both the starters (Day 1-2 draft picks) and depth.

So yes, I think the D can go from bottom 1/3 to average next year.


You're forgetting the other moves we made during the season.

Slot CB ->?
Snacks (NT, for lack of a better word) --> ?

Which also does not address the issues the defense had to start last year, at the other EDGE or LB.
RE: Thanks jt  
Carson53 : 3/15/2019 11:54 am : link
In comment 14338790 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
As always. I still think based on what’s going on the Giants are drafting a QB by possibly trading up for one or trading for Rosen, but even if they get Rosen, they will sit him for Eli. And if they don’t like Haskins at 6, I have to think Murray is in play. We will see! (And this is no asshat info on my side, just reading into what I’m seeing)
.

That's our Giants, sit Rosen for Teflon Eli.
They are rebuilding, the OP is in denial, oh well.
The raging fever in the owner's box continues  
HomerJones45 : 3/15/2019 11:56 am : link
and is leading to the same hallucinations and delusions. The son is just like the father. Total failure to dispassionately assess the talent level on this team and to butt out of personnel decisions.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
Pan-handler : 3/15/2019 11:58 am : link
In comment 14339781 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14339739 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:



Ok, let's pretend Peppers is going to be better than Collins. Will the defense be better overall? Why or why not? The idea that this team is going to compete next year is a joke. Which would be fine if the team was addressing its long term needs at the most important position, but it appears that they are not. Call that 'unhappy with the team direction' but I don't know how you can be anything else.



Will the D be better? They were 24th in yards allowed (371.4 per game) last season and 23rd in scoring D (25.8 pts/game) so there's certainly plenty of room for improvement.

Let's look at the moves they've made on D (to date):
Riley -> Bethea huge upgrade
Collins -> Peppers let's call it a push, though at this time next year I think we'll view it an upgrade
Vernon -> Golden push - who plays more games in 2019?
Webb -> Beal TBD

I think those are the current changes to the starters and overall I'd say we marginally improved with the potential for significant improvement depending mainly on Beal and if Peppers continues his upward trend.

The rest of the D had several 1st/2nd year players that I also think will be better this year and/or play more significant roles: Hill, Tomlinson, and Carter

But the offseason isn't over yet. I fully expect at least 2 of our 3 top 37 picks to be on the defensive side, including #6 (edge rusher). I don't think we'll end up making 12 picks, but between the draft and undrafted FAs, I'd guess we add at least another 6-8 players to the D which will hopefully improve both the starters (Day 1-2 draft picks) and depth.

So yes, I think the D can go from bottom 1/3 to average next year.


If the D was just average we go 3-1 in our last 4 last year against a couple of playoff teams WITHOUT ODELL.
Carson  
jtgiants : 3/15/2019 11:58 am : link
I think you will be surprised. The Giants will be better imo. Well see. Either way. It's what the Giants feel that matters. They want to win. Like it or not
RE: Mike, I think the defense will be a better because we're going to  
Pan-handler : 3/15/2019 11:59 am : link
In comment 14339768 yatqb said:
Quote:
draft an impact player or two in the draft, plus a bunch of depth players. Hoe many impact players did we have on D last year? And if we sign someone like Houston, we'll already have two better 3/4 rushers than we had last year.

Sure we'll be depending upon rookies in some cases, but rookies with a lot better talent than some of the guys we had to rely upon last year.


Looking more and more like blue-chip edge rusher at #6. Hopefully Sweat or Josh Allen (if he drops)
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
giants#1 : 3/15/2019 12:00 pm : link
In comment 14339789 mikeinbloomfield said:
Quote:
In comment 14339781 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 14339739 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:





You're forgetting the other moves we made during the season.

Slot CB ->?
Snacks (NT, for lack of a better word) --> ?

Which also does not address the issues the defense had to start last year, at the other EDGE or LB.


Slot CB is the same -> Haley
Snacks was replaced by Tomlinson last season. You can go compute the D ranks before/after the trade and let me know if they were significant.

More playing time for Carter, at the expense of Martin, will help the other EDGE/LB. Part of the issue last season was OV was out and Carter wasn't ready for a full time role.

I will also be completely shocked if they don't take an EDGE/LB with #6, #17, or #37 and honestly feel its at least 70-30 we go EDGE/LB at #6. Golden/Carter year 2/Draft Pick will be much better than OV (3/4 season)/Martin/Barwin/rookie Carter.
RE: Carson  
Carson53 : 3/15/2019 12:03 pm : link
In comment 14339808 jtgiants said:
Quote:
I think you will be surprised. The Giants will be better imo. Well see. Either way. It's what the Giants feel that matters. They want to win. Like it or not
...

Well, I never heard a team say we want to lose.
I do believe their actions speak louder than words.
Apparently you can't accept the word, rebuilding.
What did Eli ever have to do with OBJ getting injured?  
Jimmy Googs : 3/15/2019 12:05 pm : link
Quote:
Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli.
RE: What did Eli ever have to do with OBJ getting injured?  
giants#1 : 3/15/2019 12:08 pm : link
In comment 14339833 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:


Quote:


Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli.



Really? Half of BBI blamed Eli and his high throw for Beckham breaking his ankle...
RE: RE: What did Eli ever have to do with OBJ getting injured?  
figgy2989 : 3/15/2019 12:09 pm : link
In comment 14339844 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14339833 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:




Quote:


Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli.





Really? Half of BBI blamed Eli and his high throw for Beckham breaking his ankle...


Ha! EliteMobster had daily threads on this subject. I remember because FMiC's responses were hilarious.
RE: RE: What did Eli ever have to do with OBJ getting injured?  
Jimmy Googs : 3/15/2019 12:22 pm : link
In comment 14339844 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14339833 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:




Quote:


Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli.





Really? Half of BBI blamed Eli and his high throw for Beckham breaking his ankle...


So half of BBI believe OBJ has a beef...hmm
jtgiants  
Jay on the Island : 3/15/2019 12:27 pm : link
Is there any truth to the rumor that Colin from GBN said about the Giants loving Kyler Murray?
RE: A couple of things  
Bobby Humphrey's Earpad : 3/15/2019 12:33 pm : link
In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:
Quote:
1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there.

2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported

3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint


I have been away traveling and missed the BBI explosion re the trade, but I live in an area where there are a lot of ex-players / people affiliated with the Giants org and this is exactly what I've heard.

Odell blamed Manning for most of the issues and was planning another Lil Wayne-type interview in which he threw the QB under the bus. The Shurmer stuff I've also heard. Also, don't discount Anita Marks' comments; she had the leaks before last season that Beckham wanted to go to LA.

As Eric said , these are moves to re-establish the culture of the franchise - the chasm between players and management had never been further than last season. Hence all the moves from Snacks to Odell and Collins.



My take, I think the ‘win now’  
Gregorio : 3/15/2019 12:54 pm : link
position is only a public relations message. What else can NYG say to fans paying big $ for PSLs, “No, we don’t really have much of a chance to win this season or next, but stay with us for a couple of years”. Not.

Any person in their right mind can plainly see NYG is in rebuild mode, and when rebuilding the expectation to win, is theoretically possible but just not realistic.

And, huge thanks to jtgiants for the recent updates and posts.
THIS says it all  
Stan in LA : 3/15/2019 1:15 pm : link
Quote:
2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported.

'nuff said.
RE: My take, I think the ‘win now’  
AcesUp : 3/15/2019 1:37 pm : link
In comment 14340024 Gregorio said:
Quote:
position is only a public relations message. What else can NYG say to fans paying big $ for PSLs, “No, we don’t really have much of a chance to win this season or next, but stay with us for a couple of years”. Not.

Any person in their right mind can plainly see NYG is in rebuild mode, and when rebuilding the expectation to win, is theoretically possible but just not realistic.

And, huge thanks to jtgiants for the recent updates and posts.


20% of their cap is allocated to dead money while their 38 year old QB carries a 23M dollar cap hit and their two biggest offseason acquisitions are in their 30s. Doesn't that seem off to people? They're trying to do two things with conflicting strategies at once. I'm not in the doomsday crowd, they'll be ok next year (treading water and a better record with an easier schedule and less bad luck), but this is a recipe for longterm mediocrity. It's like they're trying to become a team that maybe competes for a shot at WC weekend but doesn't have the juice to push past that point.

I do believe talent outtrumps half baked strategy, so they'll be fine if they spike this draft and nail the QB pick. However, they're not leaving a whole lot of margin for error in the quest to win 8 games.
Colin  
jtgiants : 3/15/2019 1:49 pm : link
And I have different info. I don't see the Murray thing at all. Colin does a great job but last year we both had totally different info also. I can only tell you what I believe to be accurate
RE: This board is going typical BBI  
Diver_Down : 3/15/2019 1:51 pm : link
In comment 14339664 Bill in UT said:
Quote:
on how much they think Shep is worth


They should take the advice of that kid in Modell's. https://youtu.be/gDqruD3YJIw?t=62
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: .  
mikeinbloomfield : 3/15/2019 1:59 pm : link
In comment 14339815 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14339789 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:


In comment 14339781 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 14339739 mikeinbloomfield said:


Quote:





You're forgetting the other moves we made during the season.

Slot CB ->?
Snacks (NT, for lack of a better word) --> ?

Which also does not address the issues the defense had to start last year, at the other EDGE or LB.



Slot CB is the same -> Haley
Snacks was replaced by Tomlinson last season. You can go compute the D ranks before/after the trade and let me know if they were significant.

More playing time for Carter, at the expense of Martin, will help the other EDGE/LB. Part of the issue last season was OV was out and Carter wasn't ready for a full time role.

I will also be completely shocked if they don't take an EDGE/LB with #6, #17, or #37 and honestly feel its at least 70-30 we go EDGE/LB at #6. Golden/Carter year 2/Draft Pick will be much better than OV (3/4 season)/Martin/Barwin/rookie Carter.


They were 24th ranked in run yardage and traded Snacks after game 7. So maybe they both stunk. Hooray?

But the rest is "if this guy works out." But that's true any year. Golden is coming off a 2.5 sack year after a major injury. The best thing about his contract is the commitment. And not only are you counting on the Giants drafting EDGE, you're predicting he'll be good, and will contribute in his rookie year. Wishing and hoping.
Stewart  
Thegratefulhead : 3/15/2019 2:05 pm : link
Do you think he got that contract for inside info on the Locker room?
RE: Stewart  
Jimmy Googs : 3/15/2019 2:07 pm : link
In comment 14340239 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
Do you think he got that contract for inside info on the Locker room?


Did they even give him a locker or just the silly contract?
RE: RE: Stewart  
Thegratefulhead : 3/15/2019 2:09 pm : link
In comment 14340246 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14340239 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


Do you think he got that contract for inside info on the Locker room?



Did they even give him a locker or just the silly contract?
Dunno
RE: Colin  
Pan-handler : 3/15/2019 2:10 pm : link
In comment 14340171 jtgiants said:
Quote:
And I have different info. I don't see the Murray thing at all. Colin does a great job but last year we both had totally different info also. I can only tell you what I believe to be accurate


JT if you had to guess, what range do you think is in play for Qb #17 or later?
RE: RE: Stewart  
Thegratefulhead : 3/15/2019 2:11 pm : link
In comment 14340246 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 14340239 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:


Do you think he got that contract for inside info on the Locker room?



Did they even give him a locker or just the silly contract?
kind of kidding but...Have you ever been promoted and brought in someone that was loyal to you get the pulse of your staff?
JT also does the Rosen  
Pan-handler : 3/15/2019 2:11 pm : link
stuff have any heat to it whatsoever?
RE: JT also does the Rosen  
giants#1 : 3/15/2019 2:12 pm : link
In comment 14340255 Pan-handler said:
Quote:
stuff have any heat to it whatsoever?


He already said the Rosen stuff is false.
RE: A couple of things  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/15/2019 2:23 pm : link
In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:
Quote:
1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there.

2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported

3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint


Thanks for the great stuff as usual jt.

My thoughts...

1- When did the Giants become so damned soft? My favorite non-LT clip of the 80s Giants involved Phil Simms walking to the sideline yelling at Bill Parcells. Parcells then slightly turns and over his shoulder yells to Simms, "SIT DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!" They didn't trade Phil Simms. No one's panties exploded. How many offensive coordinators have been cursed out by Tom Brady in full view of the world? It's more than one, yet no one got fired or traded. It would be great if everyone was Larry Fitzgerald or Barry Sanders, but no... people are going to curse out other people and they're going to get cursed out. Welcome to the world of professional sports. Steve Kerr is about to win his 4th ring and he's probably been cursed out by Draymond Green 700 times.

2- I don't doubt anything that is said here, especially the injury part. But let's look at it the other way. If you don't think Odell Beckham's transcendent talents extended Eli's career, then you're a fool (not you specifically jt). And if that caused Odell to feel a certain kind of way, so be it. I go back to my original "The Giants are delusional" post. This isn't 2006 when Tiki leaves and a young Eli will get better. It's 2019... ELI MANNING IS NOT GETTING BETTER! If you watch the games, he doesn't see people who're wide open when he has time to throw. He misses wide open people he actually sees them. The playoff game thing is a moron test. Does anyone remember what Eli Manning looked like in his first playoff game? Hello? Anyone?

3- There's only one way Beckham's "attitude" could infiltrate teammates. That's because there's no belief in the head coach, the GM, the owner, and the QB. If the QB was really good, it would provide an alternative and no one would follow the WR. If people trusted that the head coach was terrific at his job and was a leader of men, no one would follow the WR. They can only follow the WR when there's a black hole of talent and leadership in the most important areas of a football team.
RE: RE: JT also does the Rosen  
Thegratefulhead : 3/15/2019 2:24 pm : link
In comment 14340257 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14340255 Pan-handler said:


Quote:


stuff have any heat to it whatsoever?



He already said the Rosen stuff is false.
Hoping it is a diversion. Beat writers lurk here because they know insiders post here. I am sure other teams know too.
RE: RE: JT also does the Rosen  
The Dude : 3/15/2019 2:31 pm : link
In comment 14340257 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 14340255 Pan-handler said:


Quote:


stuff have any heat to it whatsoever?



He already said the Rosen stuff is false.


Did he say false? I thought he just said he hasn't heard anything.


I'm waiting on a shep trade between now and the draft.
RE: RE: RE: JT also does the Rosen  
Diver_Down : 3/15/2019 2:32 pm : link
In comment 14340330 The Dude said:
Quote:
In comment 14340257 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 14340255 Pan-handler said:


Quote:


stuff have any heat to it whatsoever?



He already said the Rosen stuff is false.



Did he say false? I thought he just said he hasn't heard anything.


I'm waiting on a shep trade between now and the draft.


Expect Shep, but don't be surprised if Engram is on the move also.
RE: RE: A couple of things  
Thegratefulhead : 3/15/2019 2:34 pm : link
In comment 14340300 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:


Quote:


1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there.

2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported

3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint



Thanks for the great stuff as usual jt.

My thoughts...

1- When did the Giants become so damned soft? My favorite non-LT clip of the 80s Giants involved Phil Simms walking to the sideline yelling at Bill Parcells. Parcells then slightly turns and over his shoulder yells to Simms, "SIT DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!" They didn't trade Phil Simms. No one's panties exploded. How many offensive coordinators have been cursed out by Tom Brady in full view of the world? It's more than one, yet no one got fired or traded. It would be great if everyone was Larry Fitzgerald or Barry Sanders, but no... people are going to curse out other people and they're going to get cursed out. Welcome to the world of professional sports. Steve Kerr is about to win his 4th ring and he's probably been cursed out by Draymond Green 700 times.

2- I don't doubt anything that is said here, especially the injury part. But let's look at it the other way. If you don't think Odell Beckham's transcendent talents extended Eli's career, then you're a fool (not you specifically jt). And if that caused Odell to feel a certain kind of way, so be it. I go back to my original "The Giants are delusional" post. This isn't 2006 when Tiki leaves and a young Eli will get better. It's 2019... ELI MANNING IS NOT GETTING BETTER! If you watch the games, he doesn't see people who're wide open when he has time to throw. He misses wide open people he actually sees them. The playoff game thing is a moron test. Does anyone remember what Eli Manning looked like in his first playoff game? Hello? Anyone?

3- There's only one way Beckham's "attitude" could infiltrate teammates. That's because there's no belief in the head coach, the GM, the owner, and the QB. If the QB was really good, it would provide an alternative and no one would follow the WR. If people trusted that the head coach was terrific at his job and was a leader of men, no one would follow the WR. They can only follow the WR when there's a black hole of talent and leadership in the most important areas of a football team.
If Phil Simms told Bill Parcells to fuck off and walked off the field to get an IV before the first half ended Bill would have punched Phil in the face. Bill and Phil were in same foxhole when the shit was flying. Shurmur and OBJ have no such bond. Apples Oranges
Yeah I am sure a coach telling OBJ  
dep026 : 3/15/2019 2:35 pm : link
to shut the fuck up would make him quiet and play harder.....

Give me a break.
RE: Yeah I am sure a coach telling OBJ  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/15/2019 2:38 pm : link
In comment 14340349 dep026 said:
Quote:
to shut the fuck up would make him quiet and play harder.....

Give me a break.


Making him quiet isn't important... getting the most out of him is.
Otherwise, you obviously missed the point of that story.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/15/2019 2:39 pm : link
Football is an emotional game and people are going to say crazy things to each other. If you can't handle that, then you probably shouldn't be coaching professional sports.
RE: #3 is both moronic and delusional.  
djm : 3/15/2019 2:56 pm : link
In comment 14338785 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
- Are they not aware of the QBs available in next year's draft?
- Are they not aware they scored more points in Beckham's last 4 games than they did in the last 4 games without him?
- The two teams that needed the games last year when we didn't have Beckham held Saquon Barkley to 74 yards rushing on 35 carries. The Giants embarrassed themselves against the Titans and couldn't beat a Dallas team sitting many stars.
- What makes them think they were better? That they almost beat the Colts?

Just completely fucking delusional. What are they trying to prove? These motherfuckers really don't want Tua or Herbert. I guess we'll be looking at Eli forever.


Dude, go have a drink or something.
RE: Basicallly everything  
djm : 3/15/2019 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019


It won’t be hard if the OL is adequate. I’m absolutely sure of it.
RE: RE: #3 is both moronic and delusional.  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 3/15/2019 2:59 pm : link
In comment 14340422 djm said:
Quote:


Dude, go have a drink or something.


I'm sorry if "Sit back and enjoy the process" with this leadership group isn't enough for me.
so, is Remmers  
Bill in UT : 3/15/2019 3:02 pm : link
in the building?
RE: RE: RE: #3 is both moronic and delusional.  
Thegratefulhead : 3/15/2019 3:06 pm : link
In comment 14340437 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 14340422 djm said:


Quote:




Dude, go have a drink or something.



I'm sorry if "Sit back and enjoy the process" with this leadership group isn't enough for me.
I respect your right to complain and you are doing it the right place. OBJ lost me last year. I was on his side before last year, but the sitting, The IVs, the interview on the heals of 95 million. GTFO OBJ don't let the door hit you in the ass. I am happy he is gone. It isn't an unreasonable take either.
RE: We don't owe Eli anything  
djm : 3/15/2019 3:16 pm : link
In comment 14338887 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Who says we did in the first place? The giants don’t want to cut Eli for a shittier and equally expensive veteran in fa. They also don’t want to go without a vet if and when the draft a rookie qb. Why is this so hard for some to comprehend? It’s nowhere near the big deal some here insist on it being.

Day after day post after post make it stop.
Who are the giants missing out on in fa  
djm : 3/15/2019 3:19 pm : link
Because of this big bad Eli cap hit that you all obsess over day after day? Who? And again, they aren’t going “vetless” at qb if they draft a kid!

There can be middle ground.
RE: RE: RE: A couple of things  
Matt in SGS : 3/15/2019 3:26 pm : link
In comment 14340344 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 14340300 shockeyisthebest8056 said:


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In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:


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1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there.

2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported

3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint



Thanks for the great stuff as usual jt.

My thoughts...

1- When did the Giants become so damned soft? My favorite non-LT clip of the 80s Giants involved Phil Simms walking to the sideline yelling at Bill Parcells. Parcells then slightly turns and over his shoulder yells to Simms, "SIT DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!" They didn't trade Phil Simms. No one's panties exploded. How many offensive coordinators have been cursed out by Tom Brady in full view of the world? It's more than one, yet no one got fired or traded. It would be great if everyone was Larry Fitzgerald or Barry Sanders, but no... people are going to curse out other people and they're going to get cursed out. Welcome to the world of professional sports. Steve Kerr is about to win his 4th ring and he's probably been cursed out by Draymond Green 700 times.

2- I don't doubt anything that is said here, especially the injury part. But let's look at it the other way. If you don't think Odell Beckham's transcendent talents extended Eli's career, then you're a fool (not you specifically jt). And if that caused Odell to feel a certain kind of way, so be it. I go back to my original "The Giants are delusional" post. This isn't 2006 when Tiki leaves and a young Eli will get better. It's 2019... ELI MANNING IS NOT GETTING BETTER! If you watch the games, he doesn't see people who're wide open when he has time to throw. He misses wide open people he actually sees them. The playoff game thing is a moron test. Does anyone remember what Eli Manning looked like in his first playoff game? Hello? Anyone?

3- There's only one way Beckham's "attitude" could infiltrate teammates. That's because there's no belief in the head coach, the GM, the owner, and the QB. If the QB was really good, it would provide an alternative and no one would follow the WR. If people trusted that the head coach was terrific at his job and was a leader of men, no one would follow the WR. They can only follow the WR when there's a black hole of talent and leadership in the most important areas of a football team.

If Phil Simms told Bill Parcells to fuck off and walked off the field to get an IV before the first half ended Bill would have punched Phil in the face. Bill and Phil were in same foxhole when the shit was flying. Shurmur and OBJ have no such bond. Apples Oranges


FYI. just for posterity, the incident that you guys are referencing between Parcells and Simms happened before halftime of the Giants vs. Colts game on Monday Night in 1990. The Giants were up 17-0 in a game they win in a walk 24-7 to go to 8-0.

Anyway, their argument stemmed on a playcall on 3rd down and a throw to Rodney Hampton. Parcells didn't like Simms decision. Parcells yelled at Simms, Simms came back at Parcells to argue. And that's when the cameras caught Parcells yelling at Simms "sit the fuck down and shut your fucking mouth".

Frank Gifford said something like "we apologize to all you lip readers out there." And after that Gifford said that Parcells told them the reason he gets the most out of his players is because he's not afraid to go after his best players, like LT and Simms so the rest of the team understands. Al Michaels said "well, that's a perfect example there".

What was interesting was what happened next. After a few plays, they show Simms stewing on the sidelines, holding a football. Parcells then looks over his shoulder and nods to Simms to come over. That's when Michaels said "ok, now they are going to kiss and make up." Parcells and Simms then calmly talk things over on the sidelines after the heat of the moment passed.

And Michaels said my favorite line as you saw the two of them intently patching things up. "Folks, if you are just joining us, these guys are winning 17-0" . When I get home, I might pull down that whole clip and post it for fun.
Wow what a thread and what a conversation.  
BlueLou'sBack : 3/15/2019 4:15 pm : link
For sure the truth is not so obvious as what Mike Francesa and the Giants' FO are now laying out - hello folks, they've traded a potential HOF player and now's the time to crank up the Spin!

What UberAlias brings up should not be dismissed out of hand. What if Beckham is right, that Eli himself is one of the weakest links on the team?

So OBJ said to Shurmur to "puck off"? Really that's a reason to trade him? Or not showing up for a Giants sponsored event because Francesca is MCing it is that a reason to dump a guy? Now using his quad bruise to sit out the last 4 games of 2018... that's a reason to trade a guy. Unless of course, they guy knew he wasn't in the team's long range plan ALREADY. Then maybe, just maybe, his sitting his ass down is, somehow, appropriate? Or at least in his own mind somehow justified because he knows the team is moving on from him?

I am not defending OBJ here - but criticism of Eli is valid, and if Beckham is right we'll see it on the field while the Browns sail into the playoffs and the Giants go 6-10 or worse again.

Is anyone gonna be surprised if the Giants suck again in 2019 and Eli again performs among the bottom third or quartile in the league according to TotalQBR?

i won't be.

Lou, do you think that Eli has EVER thrown anyone under the bus?  
yatqb : 3/15/2019 10:21 pm : link
Either in the media or to other teammates? No chance. If OBJ was whining to his friends on the team about Eli, he was polluting the culture. It's a loser/me first thing to do, and it can NEVER help a team. Be a good soldier to your boss, and a good teammate, or get lost.

And Matt, Simms and Parcells LOVED each other. There was so much mutual respect that they could interact, including in that situation cursing, without it causing a fissure in the team, decreasing the respect the team had for either of them, or diminishing Parcells' authority. Shurmur, a first year head coach for us, hasn't had the time or the success to allow a player to tell him to fuck off without potentially losing his team's respect or causing a rift between those players who might see OBJ as a dick and those who love the guy. It's a cancerous behavior.

RE: Can't say on  
Jersey55 : 3/16/2019 11:16 am : link
In comment 14338758 jtgiants said:
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Trade. I can say, in terms of Beckham, these things always get out. As for QB. Whatever they do Eli is the QB this year

for a while anyway...
JT  
AnskyJK : 3/17/2019 11:45 pm : link
What’s the latest- Anything on Remmers, another defender or a trade?
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