Here's where we stand

And will the antics causing the obj trade be made public?

-Is there a plan C?
-Houston?
-left to trade, Shepard, Jenkins, Engram. Can’t thing of anyone else who would have value to another team.

In comment 14338754 Giantimistic said:

Quote:

-Is there a plan C? -Houston? -left to trade, Shepard, Jenkins, Engram. Can’t thing of anyone else who would have value to another team.

Is the trade players or draft picks?

Trae Waynes?

Trade. I can say, in terms of Beckham, these things always get out. As for QB. Whatever they do Eli is the QB this year

.

In comment 14338758 jtgiants said:

Quote:

Trade. I can say, in terms of Beckham, these things always get out. As for QB. Whatever they do Eli is the QB this year

Can you say what the chances are of them trading both #17 and #6 to move up, vs trading another player for picks?

be rude but can you explain to me why someone that has had 2.5 sacks the last two years is being classified as a big get?

He's had 1 good year out of 4.

You already answered my question, sorry

Player who did GREAT under Bettcher. He tore his cal and then came back and team was playing 4-3. He wasn't a system fit. You watch. He'll be real good this season

jt, about all of it.

they'd just wait till the draft and grab a tackle who can plug right in. It's a better tackle year than last year, where we got a great guard.

I assume shurmur has some visions of thelen/diggs.

and thanks for the info.

Do you have any sense of the Giants internal systems for calculating something like expected win probability adjustments as it relates to adding or subtracting players?

I like it batman.

I tried to search some cardinal boards with no luck, but I have to imagine that we are not the only site getting this type of inside scoop.

This is all 10 times better than the reporters scoops.

Not jet.

are considered the bigger moves, that's pretty disappointing. Nowhere near enough to win this year, even with the rookies we'll draft.

Appreciate it greatly.

They don't believe that. They think the offense is fine. They want a RT though. They think the defense is a work in progress but getting there. They also expect huge help from draft

- Are they not aware of the QBs available in next year's draft?
- Are they not aware they scored more points in Beckham's last 4 games than they did in the last 4 games without him?
- The two teams that needed the games last year when we didn't have Beckham held Saquon Barkley to 74 yards rushing on 35 carries. The Giants embarrassed themselves against the Titans and couldn't beat a Dallas team sitting many stars.
- What makes them think they were better? That they almost beat the Colts?

Just completely fucking delusional. What are they trying to prove? These motherfuckers really don't want Tua or Herbert. I guess we'll be looking at Eli forever.

I just find it enough to pull my hair out.

If he is healthy, dude can be a beast. Click the link below and you can see what type of person & player he is.

Now the Tate signing is something I don't get, but who knows.. I'm hoping the Giants do fortify the Oline before the draft so they don't have to spend a 1st rd pick on one and focus either on a Edge rusher, or a QB. Personally I would love somehow getting Josh Allen to pair up with Golden & Carter. You can never have enough pass rushers! Giants need to go back to what made them successful back then, good Oline and great pass rushers.. Or go QB's with the 1st pick and pass rusher with the 2nd pick. If your rebuilding, get a QB now to groom under Eli.

I just get this strange feeling the Giants are trying to completely change the culture here now. I feel like they are in some way trying to maybe imitate what the Patriots have been doing for awhile now? That's don't go crazy and overspend on players, and try to get blue collar players that just want to win. Team first type of players. It only makes sense when you give up on several players including a generational type player in Odell?! Who really knows what they are trying to accomplish right now, but that's my theory on this mess. I could be wrong?
Link - ( New Window )

edge player with some pass rush skills and still young?

Yyou can disagree but Giants are of different mindset. Also the offensive line is much improved. Zeitler isn't good.....hes an all pro. Also the offense did very well without Beckham to end the year. On that your wrong. Either way they belie c.f. e they can contend for playoffs this year

As always. I still think based on what’s going on the Giants are drafting a QB by possibly trading up for one or trading for Rosen, but even if they get Rosen, they will sit him for Eli. And if they don’t like Haskins at 6, I have to think Murray is in play. We will see! (And this is no asshat info on my side, just reading into what I’m seeing)

In comment 14338788 BlueLou'sBack said:

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edge player with some pass rush skills and still young?

Or a run plugger type - that I can more easily see, as they might think they can pick up a younger Snacks Harrison type with less mileage on his wheels.

And thanks for all the insider tips. Keeps the day hopping.

You could be right but I don't see it that way.

In comment 14338792 jtgiants said:

Quote:

You could be right but I don't see it that way.

Thanks JT! I really hope the plan isn’t Daniel Jones at 17. Please no ;)

Unless they hit HRs in the draft on D, they have no shot. No pass rush. We can’t cover. How does this add up to winning now?

You can’t name a weaker talent pool on defense in the NFL..

In comment 14338789 jtgiants said:

Quote:

Yyou can disagree but Giants are of different mindset. Also the offensive line is much improved. Zeitler isn't good.....hes an all pro. Also the offense did very well without Beckham to end the year. On that your wrong. Either way they belie c.f. e they can contend for playoffs this year

Someone put it really well in a different thread... it's as if the Giants are on an all-out mission to have the 10th pick in the 2020 draft.

jt... When do they plan on getting a QB? I didn't criticize them for not drafting Darnold and I really don't even want to draft a QB this year. But the 2020 draft is going to be loaded with prospects. Are they just assuming they can trade their way up?

Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019

Move back with Cinn.....so they can get in range for Haskins

Another Ogletree type trade.....a couple of late round picks. I would say, follow the recent FA signing....that usually creates availability.

Trading for Rosen

In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said:

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Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019

I like it. They owe him that much.

Giantimistic said:

Quote:

Left to trade: Shepard, Jenkins, Engram. Can’t thing of anyone else who would have value to another team.

System fit seems to be an important consideration for Bettcher. Tomlinson isn't a natural nose tackle. I kind of assumed he would join Hill and McIntosh in the 5-tech rotation this year, with Edwards/Mauro/Wynn likely gone, and move inside in four-man fronts. (A real replacement for Harrison at NT is needed anyway, via FA or draft.) But maybe Tomlinson is stuck between positions in this defense, in which case he could be trade bait.

While it would be weird for a team with so little defensive talent to deal a player with Tomlinson's skills, it wouldn't be a shock in the context of the other moves.

they traded OBJ to get another 1st rd pick this year because they have plans that required 2 picks, or because they decided ro trade him and got the beat deal out there.

In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said:

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Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019

God, I hope not. I love Eli but they can’t be hostage to the guy for Christ sakes. Long past time to move on.

You said theres a lot of stuff with Odell thr media doesnt know sbout. can you confirm Anita Marks comments about Odell telling Shurmur “f*ck you” during the Eagles game? Ive talked to other media members on thr beat and theyve never heard of this. I just find it steange that it hasnt been reported anywhere else.

In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said:

Quote:

Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019

And after a year of being pissed off about this angle- in particular the last week- it’s time to let it go .... embrace the improved OL- hope Eli goes out in better light- and still hope they address the qb succession in some capacity this year.
The hurdle is so low to be better for the team and for Eli- it shouldn’t be hard for upside surprise

You need to get the 2020 QBs out of your head. We won’t be in range and Odell was last big chip to make a move in draft.

hitdog42 said:

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Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019

SHO'NUFF said:

Quote:

I like it. They owe him that much.

Owe? Around Week 12 of the 2019 season, Eli Manning's career earnings will surpass his brother's, making him the highest-paid player in the history of football. If Eli restores his Hall of Fame credentials in 2019, that will be a nice fringe benefit of a successful rebuild. But his image and legacy should not be a consideration, let alone a major one.

jtgiants: Thank you for the ongoing flow of information.

.

In comment 14338807 UberAlias said:

Quote:

In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said: Quote: Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019 God, I hope not. I love Eli but they can’t be hostage to the guy for Christ sakes. Long past time to move on.

You have seen zero player leaks- only front office ones- no comments from Eli post trade, and the team gave money to a vet wr and trade for a vet OL-
The positive is the cap is set up for the future and we have a lot of picks - which is what I will hang my hat on- along with peppers

In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said:

Quote:

Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019

That’s really going to be on Eli to change that perception. I hope he can, but I have my doubts. This isn’t about missing open receivers running free or getting happy feet in the pocket, although those are big issues. This is about leading a team of men on the field. He hasn’t shown that in quite some time. Maybe that was part of the thinking on Beckham’s trade. Hard to be the alpha in such a quiet way with Odell on the team. Odell was Alpha. Now he’s a Brown.

In comment 14338813 UberAlias said:

Quote:

.

I guess I should phrase it differently- the shit is out of my control so I’ll stop whining about it - keep my opinion but not let it piss me off

and acquired one with an injury...the more things change, the more they stay the same...

As for Golden Tate, he did nothing nothing against us in the second Eagle game.....against our secondary?

Another head scratcher acquisition by DG....he is not going to make you forget OBj.....he is Shepard, but older.....

It does make you wonder what direction this team is headed in....

But when the QB is an after thought in your rebuild plan in a QB driven leave, its hard to get on board with the thinking. And KL was a draft pick pissed away. Half measures don’t work.

Good advice. I should try the same.

Can you just clarify #2? It’s early I can’t figure out what you mean there!

And Golden is a player as is Peppers, and Tate will be a 1b if you will for the first time in his career and he should flourish here.

Also any updates on Hogan?

Thx for the nuggets this year

Thanks for sharing.

In comment 14338814 hitdog42 said:

Quote:

In comment 14338807 UberAlias said: Quote: In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said: Quote: Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019 God, I hope not. I love Eli but they can’t be hostage to the guy for Christ sakes. Long past time to move on. You have seen zero player leaks- only front office ones- no comments from Eli post trade, and the team gave money to a vet wr and trade for a vet OL- The positive is the cap is set up for the future and we have a lot of picks - which is what I will hang my hat on- along with peppers

So you are saying that you aren't going to retire from asshattery as you mentioned the other day? You and Peppers are gearing up for the draft?

In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said:

Quote:

Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019

It sure seems like it. If this whole thing blows up on them and they don’t come close to the playoffs (like I believe will hsppen), this regime has to be shown the door.

When he heard about the benching. The trajectory took a big turn on that day and has remained on a different path since.

In comment 14338818 Doomster said:

Quote:

As for Golden Tate,... he is Shepard, but older.....

I truncated your response for the likely answer to JT's #3 item re: trades aren't done. Shep is on the last year of his contract. If there is no intention of signing him to an extension, then they might as well get something in return. Next year with over $100M in cap space to spend, any acquisitions will negate any players that leave for comp pick considerations.

I’m gonna guess Clay Matthews or Justin Houston

Early retirement

In comment 14338837 hitdog42 said:

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Early retirement

Appreciate all the info that you have shared over the years.

In comment 14338781 montanagiant said:

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Appreciate it greatly.

Thanks, JT. We all appreciate the information.

You DA man!

.

In comment 14338789 jtgiants said:

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Yyou can disagree but Giants are of different mindset. Also the offensive line is much improved. Zeitler isn't good.....hes an all pro. Also the offense did very well without Beckham to end the year. On that your wrong. Either way they belie c.f. e they can contend for playoffs this year

So if they finish say 8-8, or 9-7 and make the playoffs, they've also killed their chances for a shot at a 2020 QB. They need to get a young franchise QB this year then.

Chances of seeing Kerry Wynn and Josh Mauro returning to Big Blue?

To jtgiants and hitdog for all of the information this year and in year’s past. This is great stuff and is much appreciated!

Having said that, I certainly hope Mara and DG are ready for the derision if they have a press conference and talk about competing for the playoffs this year. Outside of the Giants offices I don’t think anyone believes that is likely. This was a bad roster last year and is arguably worse now, with the exception of adding a quality player to the Oline.

It seems they are gambling a lot on getting significant impacts from rookies and a career resurgence of a declining QB.

pieces on D that could be needle movers:

Darby, Berry, Houston, Barrett, Ansah.

In comment 14338818 Doomster said:

Quote:

As for Golden Tate, he did nothing nothing against us in the second Eagle game.....against our secondary?

You have to love this logic. Tate has multiple 90+ catch, 1000+ yard seasons but it’s what he did against us in the second Eagles game that defines his talent. Can’t make this stuff up.

.

He’s the only QB we have! And almost no matter what he will be the best QB on the team next year. It’s not that hard to understand.

In comment 14338895 BillT said:

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He’s the only QB we have! And almost no matter what he will be the best QB on the team next year. It’s not that hard to understand.

There is a draft coming up, BTW.

I firmly believe this organization is delusional enough to plan for #4.

And more proof, despite attempts to spin otherwise by those who believe in the competency of Jints Central, they really are all-in on Eli.

There is NO rational reason to bring him back if you factor in age, production, skill erosion, and cap commitment. You have to bend and twist reality to support this idiocy.

In comment 14338887 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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.

I really hope that the idea of redeeming Eli’s reputation is just a spin on the decision to keep him. If they are really letting nostalgia and a players reputation guide their team building (which I don’t doubt), they don’t belong in the NFL.

Can you imagine the reaction if at the draft press conference they announced that they are trying to redeem Eli’s reputation?

That being said. He was top 10 in yards with 4300 and 66% pass completions.

If he hadnt had multiple games without a TD at the beginning of the season we would be talking about last year as one of his best statistical seasons.

Don't get it twisted... 2nd year in PS offense and now with a WR that doesn't drop the ball... I agree with JT that the offense will be fine this year.

That defense though. Woof. Bring on the draft.

Still to go ... sign a FA RT and load up on best available D players in the draft. ... but ... what’s the thinking on the heir to Eli?
Personally I hope it’s Rosen for a 3rd but what’s the most probable direction ?

In comment 14338914 bw in dc said:

Quote:

I firmly believe this organization is delusional enough to plan for #4. And more proof, despite attempts to spin otherwise by those who believe in the competency of Jints Central, they really are all-in on Eli. There is NO rational reason to bring him back if you factor in age, production, skill erosion, and cap commitment. You have to bend and twist reality to support this idiocy.

I wanted Eli gone last year, but there are plenty of reasons to bring him back. First there aren't any better options out there. At least when you factor in the contracts. Yes I think Foles is better right now, but it was going to take a much much bigger commitment to keep Foles. They want a mentor for a young QB. Not many better then Eli in teaching a guy how to be an NFL QB. Eli's cap hit isn't preventing the team from making moves. So why not just stick with him for a year let him mentor a young QB and let him finish his career as a Giant. He's won us two SBs and is the best QB in franchise history. He deserves that.

The updates and rumors are much appreciated. Keeps me checking my phone all day!!

In comment 14338910 UberAlias said:

Quote:

In comment 14338895 BillT said: Quote: He’s the only QB we have! And almost no matter what he will be the best QB on the team next year. It’s not that hard to understand. There is a draft coming up, BTW.

Yes, there is and I hope they get a QB at #6 or higher in that draft and Eli will still be the best QB on the team.

In comment 14338789 jtgiants said:

Quote:

Yyou can disagree but Giants are of different mindset. Also the offensive line is much improved. Zeitler isn't good.....hes an all pro. Also the offense did very well without Beckham to end the year. On that your wrong. Either way they belie c.f. e they can contend for playoffs this year

This is straight up delusional and extremely frightening if the front office thinks this. Holy lack of self awareness. This defense is embarrassingly bad right now, the QB is shot, the line is still a question mark, they lack outside receivers and the coach hasn’t proved anything.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results.

In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said:

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Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019

And to win enough games (6) that they ensure they can’t draft his replacement

In comment 14338962 Big Rick in FL said:

Quote:

I wanted Eli gone last year, but there are plenty of reasons to bring him back. First there aren't any better options out there. At least when you factor in the contracts. Yes I think Foles is better right now, but it was going to take a much much bigger commitment to keep Foles. They want a mentor for a young QB. Not many better then Eli in teaching a guy how to be an NFL QB. Eli's cap hit isn't preventing the team from making moves. So why not just stick with him for a year let him mentor a young QB and let him finish his career as a Giant. He's won us two SBs and is the best QB in franchise history. He deserves that.

Just a few counters here...

There are many options. Unfortunately, people make the mistake thinking the option has to perform better than Eli to be acceptable. That’s flawed. The purpose is to get into the transition to get the most important thing for a new QB - experience. It’s critical.

Saving $17M+ in cap seems material to me.

I don’t understand why it’s presumed Eli would be this great mentor. The QB coach is paid to be the real mentor. He teaches everything- preparation, strategy, fundamentals, techniques, etc. Ask Steve Young if he learned more from Montana or Holmgren.

As soon as you use terms like “Eli deserves it” you become the exact type of fan Mara targets to buy-in.

In comment 14339010 BillT said:

Quote:

In comment 14338910 UberAlias said: Quote: In comment 14338895 BillT said: Quote: He’s the only QB we have! And almost no matter what he will be the best QB on the team next year. It’s not that hard to understand. There is a draft coming up, BTW. Yes, there is and I hope they get a QB at #6 or higher in that draft and Eli will still be the best QB on the team.

No issues for me with Eli starting. Provided there’s urgency to land his successor and no half assed measures.

In comment 14339033 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 14338962 Big Rick in FL said: Quote: I wanted Eli gone last year, but there are plenty of reasons to bring him back. First there aren't any better options out there. At least when you factor in the contracts. Yes I think Foles is better right now, but it was going to take a much much bigger commitment to keep Foles. They want a mentor for a young QB. Not many better then Eli in teaching a guy how to be an NFL QB. Eli's cap hit isn't preventing the team from making moves. So why not just stick with him for a year let him mentor a young QB and let him finish his career as a Giant. He's won us two SBs and is the best QB in franchise history. He deserves that. Just a few counters here... There are many options. Unfortunately, people make the mistake thinking the option has to perform better than Eli to be acceptable. That’s flawed. The purpose is to get into the transition to get the most important thing for a new QB - experience. It’s critical. Saving $17M+ in cap seems material to me. I don’t understand why it’s presumed Eli would be this great mentor. The QB coach is paid to be the real mentor. He teaches everything- preparation, strategy, fundamentals, techniques, etc. Ask Steve Young if he learned more from Montana or Holmgren. As soon as you use terms like “Eli deserves it” you become the exact type of fan Mara targets to buy-in.

Many options yet you don't state a single one. Whose a better option?

Go ask 100s of former or current NFL players and see who taught them how to be a better pro both on and off the field. I have. Majority will say teammates help the most.

In comment 14338883 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

pieces on D that could be needle movers: Darby, Berry, Houston, Barrett, Ansah.

I would add Danny Shelton to that list; a true run stuffing nose tackle, a good young replacement for Harrison. Less a name, more a player.

if its at the expense of getting a replacement for Eli. Choosing the QB is the hardest and most important thing in football. If you can't figure out how to do it when you've got all these assets now, when do you do it?

Let's pretend that Gettleman is right and the things he is doing improve the team. What QB is going to be available at 10 or 11 next year? Or does that when the real rebuild start?

1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there.

2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported

3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint

In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:

Quote:

1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there. 2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported 3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint

Was nice knowing you, Sterling!

like Shepard may be the trade ....

Goodbye Shep!

Sterling...

I think we can finally put the Beckham was "no trouble" and a "good teammate" to bed once and for all.

In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:

Quote:

1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there. 2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported 3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint

Thanks again, jt!

I know you probably won’t (or can’t) confirm, but #3 screams “Sterling Shepard” to me. At times he looked like mini-Odell on the bench.

In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:

Quote:

1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there. 2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported 3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint

Damn, now that is some information right there.

F off?

1 year left. Better blocker than WR.

3rd and a 5th?

In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said:

Quote:

Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019

As it should be. The guy is viewed as trash. Played behind a completely dysfunctional offensive line for half the season and was battered. THE GUY CAN PLAY!! Nobody is screaming for Rivers or Big Ben to retire due to age. Give him time and he will pick you apart.

In comment 14339158 Chris684 said:

Quote:

I think we can finally put the Beckham was "no trouble" and a "good teammate" to bed once and for all.

Not surprised you missed this one also. The question never was “Is Beckham a diva?” The questions were “Did his negative impact outweigh his production on the field?” And “Were these distractions to teammates or simply Mara?” None of those questions have been put to bed.

In comment 14339168 dep026 said:

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1 year left. Better blocker than WR. 3rd and a 5th?

How many more mid round draft picks do we need this year? If they are going to trade him, go for the 2020 picks.

I guess with the Tate signing, SS is definitely expendable. Still need someone on the outside.

In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:

Quote:

1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there. 2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported 3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint

Re: #3, which makes the Golden Tate signing make even more sense.

get over it.

...stronger than my coffee this morning. So looks like Shep is history and related to why Golden Tate was signed to play the slot.

I am intrigued by:

On top of the issues that haven't even been reported.

In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:

Quote:

2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win.

Might as well make him player-GM at this point.

also, why were you up throughout the night? My excuse was my dog had to go out and I made the mistake of looking at BBI at 3 AM and saw the thread and couldn't fall back asleep until 4:30 ;)

As for Shepard, I think the Tate signing made him expendable and the Giants aren't going to break the bank on him as a free agent.

Since getting another draft pick for him doesn't make much sense with 12 picks already, I'm thinking the Giants go to the Cardinals and offer Shepard and a 4th for Rosen. That way if they aren't going to go up for Murray, I still don't like any of the other QBs in this draft and they are pretty much the same risk/potential as Rosen. In this scenario, you keep all your high picks to fill in the roster with a huge infusion of talent.

In comment 14339130 mikeinbloomfield said:

Quote:

if its at the expense of getting a replacement for Eli. Choosing the QB is the hardest and most important thing in football. If you can't figure out how to do it when you've got all these assets now, when do you do it? Let's pretend that Gettleman is right and the things he is doing improve the team. What QB is going to be available at 10 or 11 next year? Or does that when the real rebuild start?

2 of the top 3 picks this year will absolutely not be taking a QB. The same situation will probably happen next year. Would anyone be surprised if the bills or jets are drafting top 3? Arizona again? Odds are one or multiple teams will be in a position to draft one of the QBs and have no interest to do so — just like the Colts last year.

The Giants will either lose enough to draft their guy or win and give up what it takes to get the QB.

As others have said - appreciate the juicy incite.

In comment 14339185 Matt in SGS said:

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Since getting another draft pick for him doesn't make much sense with 12 picks already, I'm thinking the Giants go to the Cardinals and offer Shepard and a 4th for Rosen. That way if they aren't going to go up for Murray, I still don't like any of the other QBs in this draft and they are pretty much the same risk/potential as Rosen. In this scenario, you keep all your high picks to fill in the roster with a huge infusion of talent.

Unfortunately, jtgiants seems to be saying the team won't be getting any QB this offseason. Not Haskins, not Murray, not Rosen. If their plan is to win, at even 8-8 they are likely out of the running for Fromm or Tua, so probably no QB in 2020 either.

That's not what he said.

He simply said Eli will be the starter.

Hall of Asshats?

I say he should be the introductory member.

Most asshats I remember havent been this talkative, forthcoming and definitely not this accurate.

Is not a good sign. I know many here will dismiss, but the guys was with him in the locker room, in the huddle, and at the end of his passes. The former WR has similar take as the former coach. Eli’s been a constant throughout the losing and to this point the blame has been placed everywhere but.

For some reason I couldn't sleep. Not sure why I was up to be honest

In comment 14339200 Chris684 said:

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Hall of Asshats? I say he should be the introductory member. Most asshats I remember havent been this talkative, forthcoming and definitely not this accurate.

Agreed - Not once did I fetch my Capt Crunch decoder ring! Awesome & good for my heart.

In comment 14339194 Lambuth_Special said:

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In comment 14339185 Matt in SGS said: Quote: Since getting another draft pick for him doesn't make much sense with 12 picks already, I'm thinking the Giants go to the Cardinals and offer Shepard and a 4th for Rosen. That way if they aren't going to go up for Murray, I still don't like any of the other QBs in this draft and they are pretty much the same risk/potential as Rosen. In this scenario, you keep all your high picks to fill in the roster with a huge infusion of talent. Unfortunately, jtgiants seems to be saying the team won't be getting any QB this offseason. Not Haskins, not Murray, not Rosen. If their plan is to win, at even 8-8 they are likely out of the running for Fromm or Tua, so probably no QB in 2020 either.

I don't think he's said that. He just said Eli is the starter this year.

In comment 14339198 Eric from BBI said:

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That's not what he said. He simply said Eli will be the starter.

Eric, this was his 3:21 a.m. response to Matt's post speculating that they'll either take a QB at 6, trade up for Murray, or trade for Rosen:

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You could be right but I don't see it that way.

.

In comment 14339203 jtgiants said:

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For some reason I couldn't sleep. Not sure why I was up to be honest

On the trade you mentioned. Are the Giants trying to aquire more draft picks or are they trying to acquire players? Thanks

In comment 14339198 Eric from BBI said:

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That's not what he said. He simply said Eli will be the starter.

Thanks Eric. The conclusions being drawn here are off the charts. I think all of this makes it more likely that they are trying to get a QB (at 6 or higher) this year.

I'm inclined to trust his word.

I guess they still could pick a QB at 17 or in the 2nd, but that doesn't jive with DG's stated philosophy.

Thanks for the info

Definitely disagree with the team is ready to win now, but let's see how the draft unfolds.

The Beckham stuff - culture matters people! Especially in the ultimate team sport.

about a Shep trade, Gettleman seems to really like player for player deals. Wouldn't surprise me if they went offense for defense here.

In comment 14339201 UberAlias said:

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Is not a good sign. I know many here will dismiss, but the guys was with him in the locker room, in the huddle, and at the end of his passes. The former WR has similar take as the former coach. Eli’s been a constant throughout the losing and to this point the blame has been placed everywhere but.

This is such a copout. Defending Beckham at this point is wrong IMO. We knew how much of a distraction he was before the trade, and with all the ino JTGiants has provided - it really seems like OBJ is a pure ass, plain and simple.

This whole constant of losing is just bad on fans part. Are we saying he hasnt been a constant? We were 25-34 with him in the lineup. Is that not a constnat? Have we had a top tier run game or defense in the last 7-8 years?

The constant has been the team has been terrible on many levels. And yes the QB hasnt been playing near the best in the league - but what group or positions have for us? Sure Beckham has played awesome. But who else? 1 year of barkley? 1 year of Collins? Who else?

Can't say I love the "we can win right now" approach for this particular group, but c'est la vie.

Tate signing makes a world more sense with the color that Shepard could be the next one out the door.

In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:

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1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there. 2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported 3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint

Shepard is next. For everyone wondering why they signed another slot reciever, there's your answer.

In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:

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1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there. 2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported 3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint

this all makes complete sense to me and it's what I said immediately in thread where everyone's freaking out when was traded. Of course there was more that we don't know. You don't trade Hall of Fame caliber receiver without reason. Knowing all this makes me certain DG did well. If we let it go longer we were going to get a new Antonio Brown return. I think that's an absolute fact. I have been staunchly Eli is done and we need a new QB. I still desperately would like another QB on the roster. I really appreciate all the info you're giving us even though this known as what we want to hear.

In comment 14339203 jtgiants said:

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For some reason I couldn't sleep. Not sure why I was up to be honest

You have not helped with our sleep or work productivity, but I am good with that. Keep it coming!

The comments were made in private, not public. It’s his opinion. He may be an ass, but does that mean his opinion is unqualified?

In comment 14339194 Lambuth_Special said:

Quote:

In comment 14339185 Matt in SGS said: Quote: Since getting another draft pick for him doesn't make much sense with 12 picks already, I'm thinking the Giants go to the Cardinals and offer Shepard and a 4th for Rosen. That way if they aren't going to go up for Murray, I still don't like any of the other QBs in this draft and they are pretty much the same risk/potential as Rosen. In this scenario, you keep all your high picks to fill in the roster with a huge infusion of talent. Unfortunately, jtgiants seems to be saying the team won't be getting any QB this offseason. Not Haskins, not Murray, not Rosen. If their plan is to win, at even 8-8 they are likely out of the running for Fromm or Tua, so probably no QB in 2020 either.

Reading is fundamental. He never said the Giants wouldn't geta QB, just that Eli is the starter. I now actually am firmly in Eli's corner. Give him one last shot without the BS, some solid players at WR (solid, smart, team guys) and let Barkley be your superstar..

Not sure why some fans are so bitter about the Giants seriously gearing up to win with Eli. I don’t think this is about nostalgia. I think it’s about reality. If you have a QB like Eli, you hang onto him and go for SBs for as long as his mind is right and his arm can make all the throws. Which he can btw despite all the nonsense that’s out thrown out there.

What is the harm of going for it this year while strengthening the Oline, defense and rebuilding the culture? The next young QB benefit from all this.

On what the over/under will be for view and post count for this thread?

We jettisoned a talented but troubled player, we traded for an veteran all pro, we signed one of Bettcher’s former players who supposedly thrived under his system, we paid big free agent dollars to shore up the OL, we brought in a whole bunch of lower tier FA veterans to improve the locker room culture etc etc. So this year, we’re really going to compete by getting rid of even more talented players but bringing in more 2nd tier vets? Why are we supposed to believe the free agent signings this year will be better than the Rileys, Barwins, Omamehs and Stewarts of last season? Those acquisitions weren’t made by the ghost of Jerry Reese, they were made by Gettelman and the current Giants pro personnel department. So far, they've actually managed to make the team older. I want to see them building a long-term winning team, not making moves because they made a promise to Eli or because Gettleman is doubling down on last year's mess to prove he's the smartest guy in the room.

In comment 14339209 Big Rick in FL said:

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In comment 14339203 jtgiants said: Quote: For some reason I couldn't sleep. Not sure why I was up to be honest On the trade you mentioned. Are the Giants trying to aquire more draft picks or are they trying to acquire players? Thanks

Has to be for players... If DG is shipping out our 2 starting WR's, SOMEONE has to run routes!! lol.. And this isnt a sure fire WR draft (my opinion)

In comment 14339232 PerpetualNervousness said:

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We jettisoned a talented but troubled player, we traded for an veteran all pro, we signed one of Bettcher’s former players who supposedly thrived under his system, we paid big free agent dollars to shore up the OL, we brought in a whole bunch of lower tier FA veterans to improve the locker room culture etc etc. So this year, we’re really going to compete by getting rid of even more talented players but bringing in more 2nd tier vets? Why are we supposed to believe the free agent signings this year will be better than the Rileys, Barwins, Omamehs and Stewarts of last season? Those acquisitions weren’t made by the ghost of Jerry Reese, they were made by Gettelman and the current Giants pro personnel department. So far, they've actually managed to make the team older. I want to see them building a long-term winning team, not making moves because they made a promise to Eli or because Gettleman is doubling down on last year's mess to prove he's the smartest guy in the room.

Stop looking at things through a vaccuum and understand they are fluid.

but, if the Giants wanted to make a BIG trade, Shepard and some picks to Jax for Jaylen Ramsey.. Why you ask, one Ramsey kind of wearing his welcome out in Jax and two, he is dating Golden Tate's sister and they just had a baby. He was actively trying to get Jax to sign him so family could be together.

Pat Kirwin spoke about this at length Tuesday and Wednesday on Sirius.

In comment 14339227 UberAlias said:

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The comments were made in private, not public. It’s his opinion. He may be an ass, but does that mean his opinion is unqualified?

Ok.

I am on board with what they are doing.

OBJ....4 years of alot of flash but it didnt translate to winning.

We saw what the team did without him with just a passable OL the last 3 of 4 games...27,40 and 35 points. New identity with Barkley.

Remmers will be a nice additional peace if he decides to join us.

In comment 14339194 Lambuth_Special said:

Quote:

In comment 14339185 Matt in SGS said: Quote: Since getting another draft pick for him doesn't make much sense with 12 picks already, I'm thinking the Giants go to the Cardinals and offer Shepard and a 4th for Rosen. That way if they aren't going to go up for Murray, I still don't like any of the other QBs in this draft and they are pretty much the same risk/potential as Rosen. In this scenario, you keep all your high picks to fill in the roster with a huge infusion of talent. Unfortunately, jtgiants seems to be saying the team won't be getting any QB this offseason. Not Haskins, not Murray, not Rosen. If their plan is to win, at even 8-8 they are likely out of the running for Fromm or Tua, so probably no QB in 2020 either.

Jt can clarify, but I"m taking what he said that "no matter what, Eli is the QB" to mean, even if they get a QB in the draft or trade, Eli is starting. To me, I think it's understood if it's a rookie coming in. Rosen is the one which you'd need a qualifier because he already has started in the league, so even if he's here, he's sitting behind Eli. I listened to the Giants Insider podcast on the way into work today and they were saying that Gettleman liked Rosen last year.

Also, if you go back to my long thread yesterday about Murray, I think the Giants are going to get a QB this draft because otherwise they will be walking right into that QB hell that Gettleman said (ie- a team wins 7,8,9 games and are too far back to empty the farm to trade up to get a top QB). The Giants are picking 6. They are right in that range right now.

If the Giants don't see Haskins as good enough to get at 6 (which I believe jt said), I see a handful of possibilities

1) Use their draft picks to trade up high to get Murray in picks 1-3, since he will never get past the Raiders at 4
2) Pick a defensive player at 6 and watch what happens with Haskins/Lock and Jones (barf, I don't want him). If they keep sliding and are in striking distance, they trade their 17 and other draft picks to move up a few spots to snag one of them.
3) Trade for Rosen (assuming Murray is the pick for Arizona).

The Giants simply cannot come out of this draft without a QB. It's all there for them. They have the picks to move up to get him in the first round. Eli is still the starter so you have the "KC Model" in place. And even the Giants realize they need to find his replacement, even if they are trying to send him out a winner on a competitive team.

In comment 14339237 jvm52106 said:

Quote:

but, if the Giants wanted to make a BIG trade, Shepard and some picks to Jax for Jaylen Ramsey.. Why you ask, one Ramsey kind of wearing his welcome out in Jax and two, he is dating Golden Tate's sister and they just had a baby. He was actively trying to get Jax to sign him so family could be together. Pat Kirwin spoke about this at length Tuesday and Wednesday on Sirius.

Ramsey may be more of a headache than he's worth.

In comment 14339230 BBelle21 said:

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Not sure why some fans are so bitter about the Giants seriously gearing up to win with Eli. I don’t think this is about nostalgia. I think it’s about reality. If you have a QB like Eli, you hang onto him and go for SBs for as long as his mind is right and his arm can make all the throws. Which he can btw despite all the nonsense that’s out thrown out there. What is the harm of going for it this year while strengthening the Oline, defense and rebuilding the culture? The next young QB benefit from all this.

I have been admittingly very critical of Eli, in that he no longer sees the field & locks into his 1st read... If new WR's who run the intended/good routes & make the adjustments that Eli is reading... I will GLADLY eat my hat.

I have a hard time imagining the Giants, after what they just went through with Beckham, would choose to bring in Ramsey and deal with him yapping and calling out every player in the league on a weekly basis.

In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said:

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Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019

I totally agree.

And that is totally absurd.

Where is Fat-Mara in Charlotte, btw, to address this?

That's not the culture they want to achieve.

Jalen Ramsey is an annoying asshole. I don't want him.

I saw the same thing.

A lot of this is like Nostradamus - you can make the hint fit the narrative you want. Things can change even if an asshat could come right out and beat us over the head with info, but there were some very good clues (and a few jumps to conclusion regarding the clues).

In comment 14339232 PerpetualNervousness said:

Quote:

We jettisoned a talented but troubled player, we traded for an veteran all pro, we signed one of Bettcher’s former players who supposedly thrived under his system, we paid big free agent dollars to shore up the OL, we brought in a whole bunch of lower tier FA veterans to improve the locker room culture etc etc. So this year, we’re really going to compete by getting rid of even more talented players but bringing in more 2nd tier vets? Why are we supposed to believe the free agent signings this year will be better than the Rileys, Barwins, Omamehs and Stewarts of last season? Those acquisitions weren’t made by the ghost of Jerry Reese, they were made by Gettelman and the current Giants pro personnel department. So far, they've actually managed to make the team older. I want to see them building a long-term winning team, not making moves because they made a promise to Eli or because Gettleman is doubling down on last year's mess to prove he's the smartest guy in the room.

The OL was much more a project than could be fixed in one fell swoop. We hoped the changes we made were enough but they werent. An immobile QB like Eli will not look good if he is getting bigtime pressure through the A gaps (few QBs for that matter would look too good either)

In comment 14339254 Chris684 said:

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I have a hard time imagining the Giants, after what they just went through with Beckham, would choose to bring in Ramsey and deal with him yapping and calling out every player in the league on a weekly basis.

Ramsey is cut from the same Douche Cloth as OBJ.. No thx

On your #3 point, the trade. Would this occur around the NFL Draft or is a trade likely to occur over the next week or so?

In comment 14339243 Matt in SGS said:

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Unfortunately, jtgiants seems to be saying the team won't be getting any QB this offseason. Not Haskins, not Murray, not Rosen. If their plan is to win, at even 8-8 they are likely out of the running for Fromm or Tua, so probably no QB in 2020 either. Jt can clarify, but I"m taking what he said that "no matter what, Eli is the QB" to mean, even if they get a QB in the draft or trade, Eli is starting. To me, I think it's understood if it's a rookie coming in. Rosen is the one which you'd need a qualifier because he already has started in the league, so even if he's here, he's sitting behind Eli. I listened to the Giants Insider podcast on the way into work today and they were saying that Gettleman liked Rosen last year.

I see what you mean, thanks for the clarification.

Overall, I've liked DG's moves this offseason, I just would be pretty concerned if they didn't make a play for QB even if they were to sit behind Eli.

In comment 14338758 jtgiants said:

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Trade. I can say, in terms of Beckham, these things always get out. As for QB. Whatever they do Eli is the QB this year

Just guessing but I think 2nd CB is probably the next highest priority. Need a vet alongside JJ. Like when we picked up Sam Madison to complement Webster and Ross as a rookie was our 3rd CB

I think he'd have to improve a lot to justify becoming a core piece going forward so it may make sense to cash in now. He's also had his fair share of injuries, so if they can swap him in a similar way as they did Vernon, that could make sense. Someone like Chris Hogan could very well replace his production. And with all the picks they have drafting someone like Renfrow in round 4/5 seems like an easy decision.

To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit.

refuse to accept the literal fact that Eli will have $0.00 dollars against the cap next year. If we cut him this year...who gives a shit. We will still have to pay him decent coin, and he's probably a better option than a rookie playing right away anyway.

In comment 14339243 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

In comment 14339194 Lambuth_Special said: Quote: In comment 14339185 Matt in SGS said: The Giants simply cannot come out of this draft without a QB. It's all there for them. They have the picks to move up to get him in the first round. Eli is still the starter so you have the "KC Model" in place. And even the Giants realize they need to find his replacement, even if they are trying to send him out a winner on a competitive team.

This is what seems most obvious about what the Giants are doing and comments by DG. "Waiting until next year" is a fantasy not a plan. I don't know who they like or don't but they can't come away without a QB when picking in the top 6 two years in a row.

In comment 14338799 George from PA said:

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Trading for Rosen

I think the Arizona coach will convince the GM to get Miller so the GM will makes some calls to see what he can get for Rosen first. If he can get a number one pick either this year or next I think he makes the trade. So, do the Giants want to trade our number 17 to get Rosen? Ideally it would be better to trade our 35 pick but I think other teams will do better....like Washington or Miami. Not sure about Cincinnati.

In comment 14339280 jtgiants said:

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To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit.

Thank you for that clarification and everything else. You're the best.

In comment 14339280 jtgiants said:

Quote:

To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit.

This is good news for the people wanting to draft a QB. Jt flat out said multiple times last year we weren't taking a QB high.

In comment 14339280 jtgiants said:

Quote:

To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit.

I see, my bad. Thanks for the info.

3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint



Re: #3, which makes the Golden Tate signing make even more sense. [/quote]

Tate coykd be used to salvage SS too. He was very close to OBJ and may nor be in line for a new deal without a break through year and there is nobody better then Tate for SS to learn from on and off the field.

.

information. Thanks.

It certainly sounds as if Shepard is likely to be traded. I'm fine with that.

As I've said, I would pass on every QB except a trade for Rosen, and possibly Lock at #17.

In comment 14339296 micky said:

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.

The goal is to try and be competitive every season, even while rebuilding. I really don't understand why this concept is so hard to people to grasp. Rebuilding doesn't automatically mean tanking.

In comment 14339216 dep026 said:

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In comment 14339201 UberAlias said: Quote: Is not a good sign. I know many here will dismiss, but the guys was with him in the locker room, in the huddle, and at the end of his passes. The former WR has similar take as the former coach. Eli’s been a constant throughout the losing and to this point the blame has been placed everywhere but. This is such a copout. Defending Beckham at this point is wrong IMO. We knew how much of a distraction he was before the trade, and with all the ino JTGiants has provided - it really seems like OBJ is a pure ass, plain and simple. This whole constant of losing is just bad on fans part. Are we saying he hasnt been a constant? We were 25-34 with him in the lineup. Is that not a constnat? Have we had a top tier run game or defense in the last 7-8 years? The constant has been the team has been terrible on many levels. And yes the QB hasnt been playing near the best in the league - but what group or positions have for us? Sure Beckham has played awesome. But who else? 1 year of barkley? 1 year of Collins? Who else?

We’ll find out this year I guess. Unless Eli’s morphing into a guy who is throwing accurate lasers all over the field and somehow isn’t gun shy anymore at age 38, I have my doubts.

I can say that a lot of my fears over a "win this year" approach are tempered by the fact that the Giants have 12 draft picks. That does give you some luxury to compete while stocking for the future.

In comment 14339296 micky said:

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.

No, it isn't. They aren't not doing something for the future to win now. They're building the best team they can which is their job.

Stem from conduct at work or off duty? Recognizing you can’t give specifics.

In comment 14339279 Eric on Li said:

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I think he'd have to improve a lot to justify becoming a core piece going forward so it may make sense to cash in now. He's also had his fair share of injuries, so if they can swap him in a similar way as they did Vernon, that could make sense. Someone like Chris Hogan could very well replace his production. And with all the picks they have drafting someone like Renfrow in round 4/5 seems like an easy decision.

This is what people want - for them to trade players they don't intend on keeping so they get something in return.

I'm sure the pitchforks will be out anyway though.

I would still like to see them sign Hogan.

appreciate the info.

A question - have you any comment on the level of agreement between Gettleman and Shurmur on all of these moves? I'm curious about how tight they are. We've heard rumors about different opinions on players (Shurmur advocated signing OBJ while others were not so sure) and we know that no two people agree on everything, so I'm wondering if you've heard anything that might indicate how much Shurmur is being included in this current plan.

Also, there has been speculation for a year now on the team's commitment to Eli. Some have suggested that a commitment to Eli was a requirement for any HC or GM candidate last year. Any thoughts on that line of thinking? Is there room in the org for people who disagree with that take? I'm wondering if the team's commitment to Eli being the starter this year could be driven more by ownership than by the football people in the org.

Murray, Rosen, Tua, Fromm, Herbert.

jt's comments sound to me like they actually plan on going QB in the draft... this year.

My concern is that they do one of two things:

- trade up in round one
- draft a second round talent (Jones) at 17

Cutting Eli is the right move, but if he's around at least he's still easy to pull for.

In comment 14339319 Chris684 said:

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Murray, Rosen, Tua, Fromm, Herbert.

I wouldnt rule out Josh Eason either.

We will draft/acquire a QB this year - Eli is going to remain here, be the starter for as long as the team is winning. If they're not, the other guy is going to get the football and that will probably be the end of the Eli era.

In comment 14339280 jtgiants said:

Quote:

To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit.

But you have said they like the projected QB’s in 2020, with one (Fromm) in particular.

since that fits like a glove with the draft board and their needs but can't force it.

is getting rid of everyone he thinks is damaging to the culture he wants to establish. That is the common denominator in the trades of Apple, Harrison, and Beckham.

Last offseason was a disaster for this front office. They've gotten a lot more right this offseason. I actually like how the team is starting to look.

In comment 14339281 ryanmkeane said:

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refuse to accept the literal fact that Eli will have $0.00 dollars against the cap next year. If we cut him this year...who gives a shit. We will still have to pay him decent coin, and he's probably a better option than a rookie playing right away anyway.

Like you, I’m okay with a rookie watching one year just like MAHOMES did. Eli showed me he can still play when given a decent line. Our line will be much improved.

In comment 14339310 Les in TO said:

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Stem from conduct at work or off duty? Recognizing you can’t give specifics.

My guess is "Sex, Drugs & Rock n Roll" in his free time.

but I'd pause before we just run him out of town. He's a tough kid who I thought showed commitment to the team with his run blocking late in the season. Solid receiver who may get to another level with more opportunity now. He just might find that OBJ moving on was the best thing for him on and off the field.

In comment 14339329 AcidTest said:

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is getting rid of everyone he thinks is damaging to the culture he wants to establish. That is the common denominator in the trades of Apple, Harrison, and Beckham.

not to mention cutting Flowers and not re-signing Flowers. We”ll see if it translates to sustainable success on the field.

Another 3rd round pick? I’d be on board with that.

In comment 14339330 Go Terps said:

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Last offseason was a disaster for this front office. They've gotten a lot more right this offseason. I actually like how the team is starting to look.

Thumbs up.

In comment 14339334 Kyle in NY said:

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but I'd pause before we just run him out of town. He's a tough kid who I thought showed commitment to the team with his run blocking late in the season. Solid receiver who may get to another level with more opportunity now. He just might find that OBJ moving on was the best thing for him on and off the field.

I don't disagree with you at all - but... I think Tate does make him expendable, and if we can recoup something for him now - i.e.. defensive talent, more draft capital, etc... I think that's actually the right move and preferable to paying Shepard market value on a new contract after the season.

In comment 14339334 Kyle in NY said:

Quote:

but I'd pause before we just run him out of town. He's a tough kid who I thought showed commitment to the team with his run blocking late in the season. Solid receiver who may get to another level with more opportunity now. He just might find that OBJ moving on was the best thing for him on and off the field.

As many know I am not a SS guy. But I do agree with this. I believe in 2nd chances, and who knows maybe Odell had a negative effect on him. There were times when he wasnt on the field that he did produce.

Really good post Kyle.

In comment 14339311 Brown Recluse said:

Quote:

In comment 14339279 Eric on Li said: Quote: I think he'd have to improve a lot to justify becoming a core piece going forward so it may make sense to cash in now. He's also had his fair share of injuries, so if they can swap him in a similar way as they did Vernon, that could make sense. Someone like Chris Hogan could very well replace his production. And with all the picks they have drafting someone like Renfrow in round 4/5 seems like an easy decision. This is what people want - for them to trade players they don't intend on keeping so they get something in return. I'm sure the pitchforks will be out anyway though. I would still like to see them sign Hogan.

I agree this is exactly what they should be doing - what's perplexing is that they are doing that with everyone who has value to return a draft pick (i.e. not Eli) and as you said the pitchforks are out anyway.

Glad to see you coming around.

I think DG's job description the last 12-15 months has been garbage man. Ridding this roster of the stink.

Gutting a secondary that went off the rails in 2017. DRC, Collins, Apple.

Snacks who admittedly had no interest in being a leader.

Obviously Beckham and his followers, now rumors of Shep, the Roger Lewis's of the world, probably had to do with Collins as well.

The common thread is culture. And while on the surface Stewart and Barwin didn't make sense on a talent level, maybe he was/is trying to get guys who know how to be professional football players in there; Golden Tate, Zeitler.

The 2018 draft was filled with not only talent but a bunch of kids who came in like seasoned vets with the exception of Lauletta who obviously took a dump on whatever slim chances of a future he had here.

In comment 14339330 Go Terps said:

Quote:

Last offseason was a disaster for this front office. They've gotten a lot more right this offseason. I actually like how the team is starting to look.

But if 1 player obj was still on..it'd be a total disaster all the way around every move😉

the goal is to win now. The season like last year is a failure if they don't win. And the GM and Coach should be fired if the they drop another 5-11 bomb.

In comment 14339334 Kyle in NY said:

Quote:

but I'd pause before we just run him out of town. He's a tough kid who I thought showed commitment to the team with his run blocking late in the season. Solid receiver who may get to another level with more opportunity now. He just might find that OBJ moving on was the best thing for him on and off the field.

I don't disagree with this - I wouldn't trade him just to trade him for a random mid-round pick.

If someone offered a similar number pick to where he was drafted I'd trade him because I think that's good asset management. He hasn't really outplayed where he was drafted. Or if there were a player at a more critical position available for a swap. If we were interested in Rosen for example, that would make a lot of sense.

What do you think of reaching out to him? Denver LB.

I heard from someone in the know that he might be moved. If you start to piece together what the Giants are doing and win now, they have the picks to get him (he probably will cost similar to Brown). He's 31. The Giants could bring him in and give him an extension with the cap space they have next year. And it would go with the mantra the Giants are trying to win now. Personally, I'd pass, but if the Giants are shipping out Shepard, they aren't leaving Eli with too much to work with at WR.

In comment 14339353 micky said:

Quote:

In comment 14339330 Go Terps said: Quote: Last offseason was a disaster for this front office. They've gotten a lot more right this offseason. I actually like how the team is starting to look. But if 1 player obj was still on..it'd be a total disaster all the way around every move😉

No, but it was by far the best thing they did. His presence was a big net negative.

In comment 14339337 Sean said:

Quote:

Another 3rd round pick? I’d be on board with that.

I'd be shocked and thrilled w that. 5th or 6th sounds more like the right price.

I'd be furious if my team traded a 3rd rounder for SS.

In comment 14339360 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

I heard from someone in the know that he might be moved. If you start to piece together what the Giants are doing and win now, they have the picks to get him (he probably will cost similar to Brown). He's 31. The Giants could bring him in and give him an extension with the cap space they have next year. And it would go with the mantra the Giants are trying to win now. Personally, I'd pass, but if the Giants are shipping out Shepard, they aren't leaving Eli with too much to work with at WR.

Age & Injuries may not be worth the price...

In comment 14339336 Les in TO said:

Quote:

In comment 14339329 AcidTest said: Quote: is getting rid of everyone he thinks is damaging to the culture he wants to establish. That is the common denominator in the trades of Apple, Harrison, and Beckham. not to mention cutting Flowers and not re-signing Flowers. We”ll see if it translates to sustainable success on the field.

Agreed.

In comment 14339369 bigbluehoya said:

Quote:

In comment 14339337 Sean said: Quote: Another 3rd round pick? I’d be on board with that. I'd be shocked and thrilled w that. 5th or 6th sounds more like the right price. I'd be furious if my team traded a 3rd rounder for SS.

They can get more than a 5th for Shep next offseason as a comp pick.

Assuming you will be in a position to draft one next year is very risky. The Giants could well end up with 7-8 wins if things break right and then you are officially in QB hell.

They have the draft capital to do it this year and should go after the guy they want...whomever it is.

can't discount the fact that we may also get a tremendously motivated Shepard because of that. 11 games played without Beckham he's at 59 catches for 746 yards. That is a 1,085 yard pace over 16 games on some pretty poor to mediocre offenses. Beckham may have been a poor influence but I never got the sense that Shepard was a real problem. And if you watch some of the mic'd up segments (SF game for example) he and Eli seem to have a good rapport

Tate will be 31 this season. While I do like the signing a bit, I don't think the 26 year old Shepard should automatically be expendable now. Let's see Shurmur get creative with these weapons on offense.

If there's an interesting player for player trade that could help on defense, I'd listen. But for another mid round pick, I'm not so sure. Decent chance you could still re-coup something for him at the deadline in season if things go south anyway.

Great stuff.

think with Shepard, it may be less about his relationship with Beckham, and more that he's almost certainly gone after this season. So why not get something for him now?

In comment 14339354 bluepepper said:

Quote:

the goal is to win now. The season like last year is a failure if they don't win. And the GM and Coach should be fired if the they drop another 5-11 bomb.

I think this should absolutely be on the table if Eli does not play well and they have not brought on a viable backup either through the draft or a trade.

and can't speak to how he is/isn't in the locker room, but based on contracts this year that worse players got (Humphries, Crowder, Beasley), Shepard is probably looking at $11-12M per season MINIMUM. That's a lot of money for a good, not great, player. So if you can get good value in a trade, I'd seriously consider it.


(or we can let him walk and hope for BBI's new craze, comp picks in 2021!)

In comment 14339376 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 14339369 bigbluehoya said: Quote: In comment 14339337 Sean said: Quote: Another 3rd round pick? I’d be on board with that. I'd be shocked and thrilled w that. 5th or 6th sounds more like the right price. I'd be furious if my team traded a 3rd rounder for SS. They can get more than a 5th for Shep next offseason as a comp pick.

As of now we are due to lead the league in cap space next off season. I think it’s a safe bet to assume we are going to be spending too much money on free agency next spring to be thinking about comp picks for any free agents we let leave.

In comment 14339359 5BowlsSoon said:

Quote:

What do you think of reaching out to him? Denver LB.

yes. Wonder why he's still available.

In comment 14339376 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

In comment 14339369 bigbluehoya said: Quote: In comment 14339337 Sean said: Quote: Another 3rd round pick? I’d be on board with that. I'd be shocked and thrilled w that. 5th or 6th sounds more like the right price. I'd be furious if my team traded a 3rd rounder for SS. They can get more than a 5th for Shep next offseason as a comp pick.

I don't see them getting a compensatory 3rd, personally. So maybe we aren't far off.

Future 4th ballpark about as valuable as a present 5th or 6th plus some cap space?

In comment 14339337 Sean said:

Quote:

Another 3rd round pick? I’d be on board with that.

Try for a 2. Settle for a 3rd. Nothing less. We don’t want to end up running rounds 4 and 5.

In comment 14339414 The_Boss said:

Quote:

In comment 14339337 Sean said: Quote: Another 3rd round pick? I’d be on board with that. Try for a 2. Settle for a 3rd. Nothing less. We don’t want to end up running rounds 4 and 5.

I could see a "bundle" situation...

Cheers to you JT.

And they said there was no plan.

Goes to show that only a few teams play chess while the rest of the league plays checkers. Except the Giants lit their checkerboard on fire, broke out Chutes and Ladders and decided to start playing checkers on that.

In comment 14338771 Phil in LA said:

Quote:

they'd just wait till the draft and grab a tackle who can plug right in. It's a better tackle year than last year, where we got a great guard.

Hoping to use that high pick on something else but agreed. Very likely can get a plug and play RT at 37.

I think the comp here is Cooper, not Beckham/Brown who had multiple years left on their deals, diva personalities, and in Brown's case is on the older side.

Cooper was dealt for a 1st with one year (plus the option) remaining on his deal. Shepard doesn't have an option year (unless you count the franchise tag) but has 1 year remaining, at a much lower value than Cooper's was.

Performance wise, Shepard doesn't have the AA of Cooper but he's been a more consistent performer and some of his "peripherals" (notably yards/rec) have been trending up each year of his career. So while I doubt SS would net a 1st in a trade, I don't think a 2nd is that far off.

In comment 14339475 Pan-handler said:

Quote:

In comment 14338771 Phil in LA said: Quote: they'd just wait till the draft and grab a tackle who can plug right in. It's a better tackle year than last year, where we got a great guard. Hoping to use that high pick on something else but agreed. Very likely can get a plug and play RT at 37.

Agreed, but always nice to have Vet depth (but at the right price).

sign on the dotted line.

What a solid add that would be.

In comment 14339360 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

I heard from someone in the know that he might be moved. If you start to piece together what the Giants are doing and win now, they have the picks to get him (he probably will cost similar to Brown). He's 31. The Giants could bring him in and give him an extension with the cap space they have next year. And it would go with the mantra the Giants are trying to win now. Personally, I'd pass, but if the Giants are shipping out Shepard, they aren't leaving Eli with too much to work with at WR.

Agreed. Also why I hope Remmers comes in so we can also use an early pick on one of these red chip WRs in the draft.

.

In comment 14339477 giants#1 said:

Quote:

I think the comp here is Cooper, not Beckham/Brown who had multiple years left on their deals, diva personalities, and in Brown's case is on the older side. Cooper was dealt for a 1st with one year (plus the option) remaining on his deal. Shepard doesn't have an option year (unless you count the franchise tag) but has 1 year remaining, at a much lower value than Cooper's was. Performance wise, Shepard doesn't have the AA of Cooper but he's been a more consistent performer and some of his "peripherals" (notably yards/rec) have been trending up each year of his career. So while I doubt SS would net a 1st in a trade, I don't think a 2nd is that far off.

SS is likely considered a possession receiver who is a slot receiver. And when he had his opportunities with Odell injured, he never really blew anyone's doors off. I think realistically, his value is a 3rd or 4th. In which case, I look at a player for player trade instead of a pick. You have 12 picks already, I think getting more is starting to be an issue....unless the plan is to trade up in the first round to get a QB, and they need more assets to do so, and still have enough picks to fill the roster. You can't make 13 picks.

In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said:

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Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019

If we send out Shep we will need another WR to take his place. Preferably a vet and preferably a true down field threat.

In comment 14339509 Pan-handler said:

Quote:

In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said: Quote: Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019 If we send out Shep we will need another WR to take his place. Preferably a vet and preferably a true down field threat.

We have someone to take his place. His name is Golden Tate.

But yes, we do need another WR.

In comment 14339372 Jim Bur(n)t said:

Quote:

In comment 14339360 Matt in SGS said: Quote: I heard from someone in the know that he might be moved. If you start to piece together what the Giants are doing and win now, they have the picks to get him (he probably will cost similar to Brown). He's 31. The Giants could bring him in and give him an extension with the cap space they have next year. And it would go with the mantra the Giants are trying to win now. Personally, I'd pass, but if the Giants are shipping out Shepard, they aren't leaving Eli with too much to work with at WR. Age & Injuries may not be worth the price...

I'd roll the dice on Green for a year or two deal. He could make a big impact for us.

In comment 14339514 Anakim said:

Quote:

In comment 14339509 Pan-handler said: Quote: In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said: Quote: Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019 If we send out Shep we will need another WR to take his place. Preferably a vet and preferably a true down field threat. We have someone to take his place. His name is Golden Tate. But yes, we do need another WR.

And don’t forget COREY COLEMAN. He is only 24, has been injured a bit, but it appears he has finally found his home. I’m expecting him to bust out this year.
It’s time - ( New Window )

In comment 14339495 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

In comment 14339477 giants#1 said: Quote: I think the comp here is Cooper, not Beckham/Brown who had multiple years left on their deals, diva personalities, and in Brown's case is on the older side. Cooper was dealt for a 1st with one year (plus the option) remaining on his deal. Shepard doesn't have an option year (unless you count the franchise tag) but has 1 year remaining, at a much lower value than Cooper's was. Performance wise, Shepard doesn't have the AA of Cooper but he's been a more consistent performer and some of his "peripherals" (notably yards/rec) have been trending up each year of his career. So while I doubt SS would net a 1st in a trade, I don't think a 2nd is that far off. SS is likely considered a possession receiver who is a slot receiver. And when he had his opportunities with Odell injured, he never really blew anyone's doors off. I think realistically, his value is a 3rd or 4th. In which case, I look at a player for player trade instead of a pick. You have 12 picks already, I think getting more is starting to be an issue....unless the plan is to trade up in the first round to get a QB, and they need more assets to do so, and still have enough picks to fill the roster. You can't make 13 picks.

Probably, but look at what those guys are now getting on the open market (Beasley, Crowder, Humphries, etc). And none of those guys are as good as Shepard.

re: all the picks - I'm hoping they're aggressive in the draft and use the extra mid/late picks to move up and get some highly ranked players on their board that slip a little. Maybe White drops to the 10-12 range (since ILBs often do) and they can trade 17 + 3rd (might need a little more) to get him. Or package the 3rd with a 4th/5th and move up higher in round 3. Or trade some of the Day 3 picks for extra picks in 2020.

Lots of flexibility, and once FA winds down, it'll be interesting to see how many roster spots are truly up for grabs.

In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:

Quote:

3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint

That and the Tate acquisition doesn't sound good for Shep

In comment 14339345 dep026 said:

Quote:

In comment 14339334 Kyle in NY said: Quote: but I'd pause before we just run him out of town. He's a tough kid who I thought showed commitment to the team with his run blocking late in the season. Solid receiver who may get to another level with more opportunity now. He just might find that OBJ moving on was the best thing for him on and off the field. As many know I am not a SS guy. But I do agree with this. I believe in 2nd chances, and who knows maybe Odell had a negative effect on him. There were times when he wasnt on the field that he did produce. Really good post Kyle.

It isn't about second chances. In a wipe the culture clean scenario there are no second chances. Look at last off season where many of you say the Giants failed - they Kept Flowers and signed OBJ- both of those could be considered 2nd chances and they are both gone. The Giants won't make the same mistake again it appears and SS is not exactly upper echelon to begin with... The Patriots show the way in how to deal with things. In many ways, outside of Brady, they are like a college program, changing players out after just a few years...

In comment 14339203 jtgiants said:

Quote:

For some reason I couldn't sleep. Not sure why I was up to be honest

It's hard to fall asleep while you're typing

Engram wasn't a Gettleman pick, but he doesn't seem to have been influenced by OBJ

In comment 14339527 5BowlsSoon said:

Quote:

In comment 14339514 Anakim said: Quote: In comment 14339509 Pan-handler said: Quote: In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said: Quote: Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019 If we send out Shep we will need another WR to take his place. Preferably a vet and preferably a true down field threat. We have someone to take his place. His name is Golden Tate. But yes, we do need another WR. And don’t forget COREY COLEMAN. He is only 24, has been injured a bit, but it appears he has finally found his home. I’m expecting him to bust out this year. It’s time - ( New Window )

Like Coleman. But 2 put your eggs in one basket on him would be high risk. Bring in another guy if we trade Shep and use Coleman as the 3rd WR.

In comment 14339181 Chris684 said:

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get over it.

You misread that also. I’m trying to help you out.

In comment 14339280 jtgiants said:

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To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit.

As long as they are mathematically alive. This team could be 0-7, mathematically alive, and still start Eli. It’s a joke.

You want tea leaves, here they are, assuming JT is right:

1) Shepard is gone. I assumed that anyway because he is redundant with Tate and DG has made it his goal to get rid of anyone with any ties to Reese;

2) The QB pick will be Daniel Jones. He looks like Manning. Has ties to Cutcliffe. Is Senior Bowl MVP (even though he was not good in that game). Eli has said he likes him and will work with him. He needs to sit a year. Oh, and if you want to win THIS YEAR, you need the six pick to come in and contribute immediately.

3) JT’s comments also suggest they are not all in on next year’s class anyway.

Look, this team is going to absolutely suck. I don’t care how much polish DAG tries to put on it. If he wants to put his eggs in the Eli and Jones baskets, let him; we’ll be in the Trevor Lawrence race in 2021. At that point, the coach and front office will also be gone, and we’ll fix this mess that DAG left us. Awesome.

Him and Tate are tough dudes in the run game. They could help build a better run game out on the perimeter.

In comment 14339609 Giants38 said:

Quote:

In comment 14339280 jtgiants said: Quote: To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit. As long as they are mathematically alive. This team could be 0-7, mathematically alive, and still start Eli. It’s a joke. You want tea leaves, here they are, assuming JT is right: 1) Shepard is gone. I assumed that anyway because he is redundant with Tate and DG has made it his goal to get rid of anyone with any ties to Reese; 2) The QB pick will be Daniel Jones. He looks like Manning. Has ties to Cutcliffe. Is Senior Bowl MVP (even though he was not good in that game). Eli has said he likes him and will work with him. He needs to sit a year. Oh, and if you want to win THIS YEAR, you need the six pick to come in and contribute immediately. 3) JT’s comments also suggest they are not all in on next year’s class anyway. Look, this team is going to absolutely suck. I don’t care how much polish DAG tries to put on it. If he wants to put his eggs in the Eli and Jones baskets, let him; we’ll be in the Trevor Lawrence race in 2021. At that point, the coach and front office will also be gone, and we’ll fix this mess that DAG left us. Awesome.

This team isn't going to be nearly as bad as you think.

In comment 14339185 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

also, why were you up throughout the night? My excuse was my dog had to go out and I made the mistake of looking at BBI at 3 AM and saw the thread and couldn't fall back asleep until 4:30 ;) As for Shepard, I think the Tate signing made him expendable and the Giants aren't going to break the bank on him as a free agent. Since getting another draft pick for him doesn't make much sense with 12 picks already, I'm thinking the Giants go to the Cardinals and offer Shepard and a 4th for Rosen. That way if they aren't going to go up for Murray, I still don't like any of the other QBs in this draft and they are pretty much the same risk/potential as Rosen. In this scenario, you keep all your high picks to fill in the roster with a huge infusion of talent.

Wow. Shep to the cards. A very QB friendly vet receiver for a team with little at receiver (besides a very very old Fitz).....wow....this in theory sounds like an excellent , excellent idea. You get Rosen back and give up a lesser pick. Would be a great, great get.

In comment 14339619 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

In comment 14339609 Giants38 said: Quote: In comment 14339280 jtgiants said: Quote: To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit. As long as they are mathematically alive. This team could be 0-7, mathematically alive, and still start Eli. It’s a joke. You want tea leaves, here they are, assuming JT is right: 1) Shepard is gone. I assumed that anyway because he is redundant with Tate and DG has made it his goal to get rid of anyone with any ties to Reese; 2) The QB pick will be Daniel Jones. He looks like Manning. Has ties to Cutcliffe. Is Senior Bowl MVP (even though he was not good in that game). Eli has said he likes him and will work with him. He needs to sit a year. Oh, and if you want to win THIS YEAR, you need the six pick to come in and contribute immediately. 3) JT’s comments also suggest they are not all in on next year’s class anyway. Look, this team is going to absolutely suck. I don’t care how much polish DAG tries to put on it. If he wants to put his eggs in the Eli and Jones baskets, let him; we’ll be in the Trevor Lawrence race in 2021. At that point, the coach and front office will also be gone, and we’ll fix this mess that DAG left us. Awesome. This team isn't going to be nearly as bad as you think.

Where have they improved? The defensive additions are basically a wash (and the defense was awful at the end of last year) and while we may have improved on the OL, we've gotten worse at the skill positions on offense.

Unless Gettleman hits on several rookies that start on day one, we will be the same team that went 5-11 last year.

.

In comment 14339614 Dodge said:

Quote:

Him and Tate are tough dudes in the run game. They could help build a better run game out on the perimeter.

Well JT has hit on stuff before , so I would say good chance this has some truth to it.

delusional this team is thinking they can win with Eli. If you want to have a farewell tour for Eli, that’s fine, but don’t make moves that preclude the team from getting a QB. What good is it for us to go 6-10 or 8-8? I’d say I am more of an Eli detractor than an Eli homer, but how can I not be with how the team is handling the situation? The team is jettisoning players who don’t play well with an aging, outgoing QB!!

Let Eli have his send-off, fine, but thinking you can make the playoffs with 4-12 talent is just stupid. Making short-sighted moves to squeeze out a 6-10 season is absolutely the worst thing.

In comment 14339630 Go Terps said:

Quote:

.

Ha ha. Sure, bud. Magical thinking.

In comment 14339218 bigbluehoya said:

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Can't say I love the "we can win right now" approach for this particular group, but c'est la vie. Tate signing makes a world more sense with the color that Shepard could be the next one out the door.

And Tate playing at his top ceiling is better than Shepherd playing at his.

.

In comment 14339627 mikeinbloomfield said:

Quote:

In comment 14339619 arcarsenal said: Quote: In comment 14339609 Giants38 said: Quote: In comment 14339280 jtgiants said: Quote: To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit. As long as they are mathematically alive. This team could be 0-7, mathematically alive, and still start Eli. It’s a joke. You want tea leaves, here they are, assuming JT is right: 1) Shepard is gone. I assumed that anyway because he is redundant with Tate and DG has made it his goal to get rid of anyone with any ties to Reese; 2) The QB pick will be Daniel Jones. He looks like Manning. Has ties to Cutcliffe. Is Senior Bowl MVP (even though he was not good in that game). Eli has said he likes him and will work with him. He needs to sit a year. Oh, and if you want to win THIS YEAR, you need the six pick to come in and contribute immediately. 3) JT’s comments also suggest they are not all in on next year’s class anyway. Look, this team is going to absolutely suck. I don’t care how much polish DAG tries to put on it. If he wants to put his eggs in the Eli and Jones baskets, let him; we’ll be in the Trevor Lawrence race in 2021. At that point, the coach and front office will also be gone, and we’ll fix this mess that DAG left us. Awesome. This team isn't going to be nearly as bad as you think. Where have they improved? The defensive additions are basically a wash (and the defense was awful at the end of last year) and while we may have improved on the OL, we've gotten worse at the skill positions on offense. Unless Gettleman hits on several rookies that start on day one, we will be the same team that went 5-11 last year.

No, they're better @ Safety now than they were before.

The offensive line can potentially be significantly better if they add Remmers + draft an OT @ 17.

We have a ton of draft stock right now - flexibility to move up if we want our QB now and add talent.

This won't be the same team you saw last year.

It's not going to be a Super Bowl contender, either - but this team will be better than last year's.

We haven't even finished building this year's team yet.

How much worse have we really gotten at the skill positions if we go WR early in the draft + having added Tate?

Beckham has missed 16 games in the last 2 seasons. He can't help us if he's not playing. Tate doesn't miss games.

In comment 14339215 Jon in NYC said:

Quote:

about a Shep trade, Gettleman seems to really like player for player deals. Wouldn't surprise me if they went offense for defense here.

Shep + a pick for Rosen makes alot of sense here. If Cards are considering Murray, a QB friendly slot WR would be very helpful.

In comment 14339359 5BowlsSoon said:

Quote:

What do you think of reaching out to him? Denver LB.

I would LOVE it if we could get him. I watch almost every Bronco game and that guy seems to produce every time he gets on the field.

In comment 14339649 Pan-handler said:

Quote:

In comment 14339215 Jon in NYC said: Quote: about a Shep trade, Gettleman seems to really like player for player deals. Wouldn't surprise me if they went offense for defense here. Shep + a pick for Rosen makes alot of sense here. If Cards are considering Murray, a QB friendly slot WR would be very helpful.

AZ has Christian Kirk - same kinda player as Shep... Btw, I would take Kirk in a package deal for Rosen in a heartbeat.

on how much they think Shep is worth

In comment 14339645 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

In comment 14339627 mikeinbloomfield said: Quote: In comment 14339619 arcarsenal said: Quote: In comment 14339609 Giants38 said: Quote: In comment 14339280 jtgiants said: Quote: To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit. As long as they are mathematically alive. This team could be 0-7, mathematically alive, and still start Eli. It’s a joke. You want tea leaves, here they are, assuming JT is right: 1) Shepard is gone. I assumed that anyway because he is redundant with Tate and DG has made it his goal to get rid of anyone with any ties to Reese; 2) The QB pick will be Daniel Jones. He looks like Manning. Has ties to Cutcliffe. Is Senior Bowl MVP (even though he was not good in that game). Eli has said he likes him and will work with him. He needs to sit a year. Oh, and if you want to win THIS YEAR, you need the six pick to come in and contribute immediately. 3) JT’s comments also suggest they are not all in on next year’s class anyway. Look, this team is going to absolutely suck. I don’t care how much polish DAG tries to put on it. If he wants to put his eggs in the Eli and Jones baskets, let him; we’ll be in the Trevor Lawrence race in 2021. At that point, the coach and front office will also be gone, and we’ll fix this mess that DAG left us. Awesome. This team isn't going to be nearly as bad as you think. Where have they improved? The defensive additions are basically a wash (and the defense was awful at the end of last year) and while we may have improved on the OL, we've gotten worse at the skill positions on offense. Unless Gettleman hits on several rookies that start on day one, we will be the same team that went 5-11 last year. No, they're better @ Safety now than they were before. The offensive line can potentially be significantly better if they add Remmers + draft an OT @ 17. We have a ton of draft stock right now - flexibility to move up if we want our QB now and add talent. This won't be the same team you saw last year. It's not going to be a Super Bowl contender, either - but this team will be better than last year's. We haven't even finished building this year's team yet. How much worse have we really gotten at the skill positions if we go WR early in the draft + having added Tate? Beckham has missed 16 games in the last 2 seasons. He can't help us if he's not playing. Tate doesn't miss games.

They are cheaper at FS, but it remains to be seen whether they are better. Peppers has one sack and two interceptions for his career. He didn't exactly set it on fire last year.

We have improved on the OL, probably. They may be a better offense. But Tate is decent, but there's a reason he's on his fourth team. He's nothing to write home about.

On defense, we still have major holes at EDGE, CB, NT, FS and probably LB, given that Ogletree can't cover. If we're counting on the draft to fill all these positions right away, good luck.

true for our offseason..... The Giants are going to be a fun team to watch again. Just need to hit on some defensive players in the draft.

Looking at Jabrill Peppers' stats page isn't going to teach you anything about him. I'd suggest doing a bit of a deeper dive than that...

.

In comment 14339670 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

Looking at Jabrill Peppers' stats page isn't going to teach you anything about him. I'd suggest doing a bit of a deeper dive than that...

So he's better than Collins, but only if you know the secret password.

Come on guys.. 4th at best..

In comment 14339645 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

In comment 14339627 mikeinbloomfield said: Quote: In comment 14339619 arcarsenal said: Quote: In comment 14339609 Giants38 said: Quote: In comment 14339280 jtgiants said: Quote: To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit. As long as they are mathematically alive. This team could be 0-7, mathematically alive, and still start Eli. It’s a joke. You want tea leaves, here they are, assuming JT is right: 1) Shepard is gone. I assumed that anyway because he is redundant with Tate and DG has made it his goal to get rid of anyone with any ties to Reese; 2) The QB pick will be Daniel Jones. He looks like Manning. Has ties to Cutcliffe. Is Senior Bowl MVP (even though he was not good in that game). Eli has said he likes him and will work with him. He needs to sit a year. Oh, and if you want to win THIS YEAR, you need the six pick to come in and contribute immediately. 3) JT’s comments also suggest they are not all in on next year’s class anyway. Look, this team is going to absolutely suck. I don’t care how much polish DAG tries to put on it. If he wants to put his eggs in the Eli and Jones baskets, let him; we’ll be in the Trevor Lawrence race in 2021. At that point, the coach and front office will also be gone, and we’ll fix this mess that DAG left us. Awesome. This team isn't going to be nearly as bad as you think. Where have they improved? The defensive additions are basically a wash (and the defense was awful at the end of last year) and while we may have improved on the OL, we've gotten worse at the skill positions on offense. Unless Gettleman hits on several rookies that start on day one, we will be the same team that went 5-11 last year. No, they're better @ Safety now than they were before. The offensive line can potentially be significantly better if they add Remmers + draft an OT @ 17. We have a ton of draft stock right now - flexibility to move up if we want our QB now and add talent. This won't be the same team you saw last year. It's not going to be a Super Bowl contender, either - but this team will be better than last year's. We haven't even finished building this year's team yet. How much worse have we really gotten at the skill positions if we go WR early in the draft + having added Tate? Beckham has missed 16 games in the last 2 seasons. He can't help us if he's not playing. Tate doesn't miss games.

Are there subliminal messages that I’m missing? How are people buying into this bull crap? This team is awful. Horrid. We are not better than last year. We are not improved. Bethea is certainly better than Riley, who was the worst NFL safety.

But if you can’t see that this team stinks, I don’t know what to tell you. You will once this team goes 4-12 or 3-13 again.

We haven't even drafted yet and have the most draft capital in the entire league right now

But, don't let that stop you from the hysterics and hyperbole because you're not getting what you want.

You sound more like an angry teenager than a football fan capable of logic and rationality.

Have at it.

You'll figure it out eventually.

In comment 14339676 mikeinbloomfield said:

Quote:

In comment 14339670 arcarsenal said: Quote: Looking at Jabrill Peppers' stats page isn't going to teach you anything about him. I'd suggest doing a bit of a deeper dive than that... So he's better than Collins, but only if you know the secret password.

Collins averaged 2 INTs and 1 sack over 4 years. And if you take out 2016..... he averaged 0 sacks and 1 INT in the other 3 years. Earth shattering play, right?

In comment 14339676 mikeinbloomfield said:

Quote:

In comment 14339670 arcarsenal said: Quote: Looking at Jabrill Peppers' stats page isn't going to teach you anything about him. I'd suggest doing a bit of a deeper dive than that... So he's better than Collins, but only if you know the secret password.

Nope, you just have to know a little bit about football.

It's not rocket science.

There were some pretty informative posts here on Peppers recently - I'd suggest you read them rather than continue to post keyboard diarrhea here because you're unhappy with the direction of the team and would prefer to throw a tantrum over it.

think the most we'd get for SS is a four. Teams know he's a FA next year. He's also a slot, not an outside, receiver.

His play didn't match it though. He always made great tackles, but he also managed to take some really bad angles in coverage more.

In comment 14339676 mikeinbloomfield said:

Quote:

In comment 14339670 arcarsenal said: Quote: Looking at Jabrill Peppers' stats page isn't going to teach you anything about him. I'd suggest doing a bit of a deeper dive than that... So he's better than Collins, but only if you know the secret password.

For one thing, PFF had Peppers rated as the 29th best coverage safety (so middle of the pack starter) vs Collins who was rated 64th. Teams pass the ball ~60% of the time now. There was also an article posted yesterday about the significant improvement Peppers made from year 1 to year 2 in recognizing coverages and playing as the deep safety. You gotta remember that he played down in the box most of the time at Michigan and so it shouldn't be surprising that his instincts at FS were awful his rookie season.

And as good as he is in the box and tackling, Collins isn't particularly effective at blitzing (all 4 sacks in his career came in 2016 and half his career QBHits). I think we'll see Peppers coming from all over and with his closing speed I think he can cause problems for opposing QBs.


Peppers dramatic improvement in year 2 - ( New Window )

In comment 14339723 arcarsenal said:

Quote:

In comment 14339676 mikeinbloomfield said: Quote: In comment 14339670 arcarsenal said: Quote: Looking at Jabrill Peppers' stats page isn't going to teach you anything about him. I'd suggest doing a bit of a deeper dive than that... So he's better than Collins, but only if you know the secret password. Nope, you just have to know a little bit about football. It's not rocket science. There were some pretty informative posts here on Peppers recently - I'd suggest you read them rather than continue to post keyboard diarrhea here because you're unhappy with the direction of the team and would prefer to throw a tantrum over it.

Ok, let's pretend Peppers is going to be better than Collins. Will the defense be better overall? Why or why not? The idea that this team is going to compete next year is a joke. Which would be fine if the team was addressing its long term needs at the most important position, but it appears that they are not. Call that 'unhappy with the team direction' but I don't know how you can be anything else.

In comment 14339739 mikeinbloomfield said:

Quote:

In comment 14339723 arcarsenal said: Quote: In comment 14339676 mikeinbloomfield said: Quote: In comment 14339670 arcarsenal said: Quote: Looking at Jabrill Peppers' stats page isn't going to teach you anything about him. I'd suggest doing a bit of a deeper dive than that... So he's better than Collins, but only if you know the secret password. Nope, you just have to know a little bit about football. It's not rocket science. There were some pretty informative posts here on Peppers recently - I'd suggest you read them rather than continue to post keyboard diarrhea here because you're unhappy with the direction of the team and would prefer to throw a tantrum over it. Ok, let's pretend Peppers is going to be better than Collins. Will the defense be better overall? Why or why not? The idea that this team is going to compete next year is a joke. Which would be fine if the team was addressing its long term needs at the most important position, but it appears that they are not. Call that 'unhappy with the team direction' but I don't know how you can be anything else.

Wait and see the finished reworked product. Patience. They have made some good moves already. Identity will become more Barkley , tougher OL and playaction off of it.

draft an impact player or two in the draft, plus a bunch of depth players. Hoe many impact players did we have on D last year? And if we sign someone like Houston, we'll already have two better 3/4 rushers than we had last year.

Sure we'll be depending upon rookies in some cases, but rookies with a lot better talent than some of the guys we had to rely upon last year.

In comment 14339739 mikeinbloomfield said:

Quote:

Ok, let's pretend Peppers is going to be better than Collins. Will the defense be better overall? Why or why not? The idea that this team is going to compete next year is a joke. Which would be fine if the team was addressing its long term needs at the most important position, but it appears that they are not. Call that 'unhappy with the team direction' but I don't know how you can be anything else.

Will the D be better? They were 24th in yards allowed (371.4 per game) last season and 23rd in scoring D (25.8 pts/game) so there's certainly plenty of room for improvement.

Let's look at the moves they've made on D (to date):
Riley -> Bethea huge upgrade
Collins -> Peppers let's call it a push, though at this time next year I think we'll view it an upgrade
Vernon -> Golden push - who plays more games in 2019?
Webb -> Beal TBD

I think those are the current changes to the starters and overall I'd say we marginally improved with the potential for significant improvement depending mainly on Beal and if Peppers continues his upward trend.

The rest of the D had several 1st/2nd year players that I also think will be better this year and/or play more significant roles: Hill, Tomlinson, and Carter

But the offseason isn't over yet. I fully expect at least 2 of our 3 top 37 picks to be on the defensive side, including #6 (edge rusher). I don't think we'll end up making 12 picks, but between the draft and undrafted FAs, I'd guess we add at least another 6-8 players to the D which will hopefully improve both the starters (Day 1-2 draft picks) and depth.

So yes, I think the D can go from bottom 1/3 to average next year.

In comment 14339669 dep026 said:

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true for our offseason..... The Giants are going to be a fun team to watch again. Just need to hit on some defensive players in the draft.

I agree with this.

In comment 14339781 giants#1 said:

Quote:

In comment 14339739 mikeinbloomfield said: Quote: Ok, let's pretend Peppers is going to be better than Collins. Will the defense be better overall? Why or why not? The idea that this team is going to compete next year is a joke. Which would be fine if the team was addressing its long term needs at the most important position, but it appears that they are not. Call that 'unhappy with the team direction' but I don't know how you can be anything else. Will the D be better? They were 24th in yards allowed (371.4 per game) last season and 23rd in scoring D (25.8 pts/game) so there's certainly plenty of room for improvement. Let's look at the moves they've made on D (to date): Riley -> Bethea huge upgrade Collins -> Peppers let's call it a push, though at this time next year I think we'll view it an upgrade Vernon -> Golden push - who plays more games in 2019? Webb -> Beal TBD I think those are the current changes to the starters and overall I'd say we marginally improved with the potential for significant improvement depending mainly on Beal and if Peppers continues his upward trend. The rest of the D had several 1st/2nd year players that I also think will be better this year and/or play more significant roles: Hill, Tomlinson, and Carter But the offseason isn't over yet. I fully expect at least 2 of our 3 top 37 picks to be on the defensive side, including #6 (edge rusher). I don't think we'll end up making 12 picks, but between the draft and undrafted FAs, I'd guess we add at least another 6-8 players to the D which will hopefully improve both the starters (Day 1-2 draft picks) and depth. So yes, I think the D can go from bottom 1/3 to average next year.

You're forgetting the other moves we made during the season.

Slot CB ->?
Snacks (NT, for lack of a better word) --> ?

Which also does not address the issues the defense had to start last year, at the other EDGE or LB.

In comment 14338790 Matt in SGS said:

Quote:

As always. I still think based on what’s going on the Giants are drafting a QB by possibly trading up for one or trading for Rosen, but even if they get Rosen, they will sit him for Eli. And if they don’t like Haskins at 6, I have to think Murray is in play. We will see! (And this is no asshat info on my side, just reading into what I’m seeing)

.

That's our Giants, sit Rosen for Teflon Eli.
They are rebuilding, the OP is in denial, oh well.

and is leading to the same hallucinations and delusions. The son is just like the father. Total failure to dispassionately assess the talent level on this team and to butt out of personnel decisions.

In comment 14339781 giants#1 said:

Quote:

In comment 14339739 mikeinbloomfield said: Quote: Ok, let's pretend Peppers is going to be better than Collins. Will the defense be better overall? Why or why not? The idea that this team is going to compete next year is a joke. Which would be fine if the team was addressing its long term needs at the most important position, but it appears that they are not. Call that 'unhappy with the team direction' but I don't know how you can be anything else. Will the D be better? They were 24th in yards allowed (371.4 per game) last season and 23rd in scoring D (25.8 pts/game) so there's certainly plenty of room for improvement. Let's look at the moves they've made on D (to date): Riley -> Bethea huge upgrade Collins -> Peppers let's call it a push, though at this time next year I think we'll view it an upgrade Vernon -> Golden push - who plays more games in 2019? Webb -> Beal TBD I think those are the current changes to the starters and overall I'd say we marginally improved with the potential for significant improvement depending mainly on Beal and if Peppers continues his upward trend. The rest of the D had several 1st/2nd year players that I also think will be better this year and/or play more significant roles: Hill, Tomlinson, and Carter But the offseason isn't over yet. I fully expect at least 2 of our 3 top 37 picks to be on the defensive side, including #6 (edge rusher). I don't think we'll end up making 12 picks, but between the draft and undrafted FAs, I'd guess we add at least another 6-8 players to the D which will hopefully improve both the starters (Day 1-2 draft picks) and depth. So yes, I think the D can go from bottom 1/3 to average next year.

If the D was just average we go 3-1 in our last 4 last year against a couple of playoff teams WITHOUT ODELL.

I think you will be surprised. The Giants will be better imo. Well see. Either way. It's what the Giants feel that matters. They want to win. Like it or not

In comment 14339768 yatqb said:

Quote:

draft an impact player or two in the draft, plus a bunch of depth players. Hoe many impact players did we have on D last year? And if we sign someone like Houston, we'll already have two better 3/4 rushers than we had last year. Sure we'll be depending upon rookies in some cases, but rookies with a lot better talent than some of the guys we had to rely upon last year.

Looking more and more like blue-chip edge rusher at #6. Hopefully Sweat or Josh Allen (if he drops)

In comment 14339789 mikeinbloomfield said:

Quote:

In comment 14339781 giants#1 said: Quote: In comment 14339739 mikeinbloomfield said: Quote: You're forgetting the other moves we made during the season. Slot CB ->? Snacks (NT, for lack of a better word) --> ? Which also does not address the issues the defense had to start last year, at the other EDGE or LB.

Slot CB is the same -> Haley
Snacks was replaced by Tomlinson last season. You can go compute the D ranks before/after the trade and let me know if they were significant.

More playing time for Carter, at the expense of Martin, will help the other EDGE/LB. Part of the issue last season was OV was out and Carter wasn't ready for a full time role.

I will also be completely shocked if they don't take an EDGE/LB with #6, #17, or #37 and honestly feel its at least 70-30 we go EDGE/LB at #6. Golden/Carter year 2/Draft Pick will be much better than OV (3/4 season)/Martin/Barwin/rookie Carter.

In comment 14339808 jtgiants said:

Quote:

I think you will be surprised. The Giants will be better imo. Well see. Either way. It's what the Giants feel that matters. They want to win. Like it or not

...

Well, I never heard a team say we want to lose.
I do believe their actions speak louder than words.
Apparently you can't accept the word, rebuilding.

In comment 14339833 Jimmy Googs said:

Quote:

Quote: Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli.

Really? Half of BBI blamed Eli and his high throw for Beckham breaking his ankle...

In comment 14339844 giants#1 said:

Quote:

In comment 14339833 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: Quote: Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. Really? Half of BBI blamed Eli and his high throw for Beckham breaking his ankle...

Ha! EliteMobster had daily threads on this subject. I remember because FMiC's responses were hilarious.

In comment 14339844 giants#1 said:

Quote:

In comment 14339833 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: Quote: Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. Really? Half of BBI blamed Eli and his high throw for Beckham breaking his ankle...

So half of BBI believe OBJ has a beef...hmm

Is there any truth to the rumor that Colin from GBN said about the Giants loving Kyler Murray?

In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:

Quote:

1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there. 2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported 3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint

I have been away traveling and missed the BBI explosion re the trade, but I live in an area where there are a lot of ex-players / people affiliated with the Giants org and this is exactly what I've heard.

Odell blamed Manning for most of the issues and was planning another Lil Wayne-type interview in which he threw the QB under the bus. The Shurmer stuff I've also heard. Also, don't discount Anita Marks' comments; she had the leaks before last season that Beckham wanted to go to LA.

As Eric said , these are moves to re-establish the culture of the franchise - the chasm between players and management had never been further than last season. Hence all the moves from Snacks to Odell and Collins.

position is only a public relations message. What else can NYG say to fans paying big $ for PSLs, “No, we don’t really have much of a chance to win this season or next, but stay with us for a couple of years”. Not.

Any person in their right mind can plainly see NYG is in rebuild mode, and when rebuilding the expectation to win, is theoretically possible but just not realistic.

And, huge thanks to jtgiants for the recent updates and posts.

Quote:

2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported.

'nuff said.

In comment 14340024 Gregorio said:

Quote:

position is only a public relations message. What else can NYG say to fans paying big $ for PSLs, “No, we don’t really have much of a chance to win this season or next, but stay with us for a couple of years”. Not. Any person in their right mind can plainly see NYG is in rebuild mode, and when rebuilding the expectation to win, is theoretically possible but just not realistic. And, huge thanks to jtgiants for the recent updates and posts.

20% of their cap is allocated to dead money while their 38 year old QB carries a 23M dollar cap hit and their two biggest offseason acquisitions are in their 30s. Doesn't that seem off to people? They're trying to do two things with conflicting strategies at once. I'm not in the doomsday crowd, they'll be ok next year (treading water and a better record with an easier schedule and less bad luck), but this is a recipe for longterm mediocrity. It's like they're trying to become a team that maybe competes for a shot at WC weekend but doesn't have the juice to push past that point.

I do believe talent outtrumps half baked strategy, so they'll be fine if they spike this draft and nail the QB pick. However, they're not leaving a whole lot of margin for error in the quest to win 8 games.

And I have different info. I don't see the Murray thing at all. Colin does a great job but last year we both had totally different info also. I can only tell you what I believe to be accurate

In comment 14339664 Bill in UT said:

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on how much they think Shep is worth

They should take the advice of that kid in Modell's. https://youtu.be/gDqruD3YJIw?t=62

In comment 14339815 giants#1 said:

Quote:

In comment 14339789 mikeinbloomfield said: Quote: In comment 14339781 giants#1 said: Quote: In comment 14339739 mikeinbloomfield said: Quote: You're forgetting the other moves we made during the season. Slot CB ->? Snacks (NT, for lack of a better word) --> ? Which also does not address the issues the defense had to start last year, at the other EDGE or LB. Slot CB is the same -> Haley Snacks was replaced by Tomlinson last season. You can go compute the D ranks before/after the trade and let me know if they were significant. More playing time for Carter, at the expense of Martin, will help the other EDGE/LB. Part of the issue last season was OV was out and Carter wasn't ready for a full time role. I will also be completely shocked if they don't take an EDGE/LB with #6, #17, or #37 and honestly feel its at least 70-30 we go EDGE/LB at #6. Golden/Carter year 2/Draft Pick will be much better than OV (3/4 season)/Martin/Barwin/rookie Carter.

They were 24th ranked in run yardage and traded Snacks after game 7. So maybe they both stunk. Hooray?

But the rest is "if this guy works out." But that's true any year. Golden is coming off a 2.5 sack year after a major injury. The best thing about his contract is the commitment. And not only are you counting on the Giants drafting EDGE, you're predicting he'll be good, and will contribute in his rookie year. Wishing and hoping.

Do you think he got that contract for inside info on the Locker room?

In comment 14340239 Thegratefulhead said:

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Do you think he got that contract for inside info on the Locker room?

Did they even give him a locker or just the silly contract?

In comment 14340246 Jimmy Googs said:

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In comment 14340239 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: Do you think he got that contract for inside info on the Locker room? Did they even give him a locker or just the silly contract?

Dunno

In comment 14340171 jtgiants said:

Quote:

And I have different info. I don't see the Murray thing at all. Colin does a great job but last year we both had totally different info also. I can only tell you what I believe to be accurate

JT if you had to guess, what range do you think is in play for Qb #17 or later?

In comment 14340246 Jimmy Googs said:

Quote:

In comment 14340239 Thegratefulhead said: Quote: Do you think he got that contract for inside info on the Locker room? Did they even give him a locker or just the silly contract?

kind of kidding but...Have you ever been promoted and brought in someone that was loyal to you get the pulse of your staff?

stuff have any heat to it whatsoever?

In comment 14340255 Pan-handler said:

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stuff have any heat to it whatsoever?

He already said the Rosen stuff is false.

In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:

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1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there. 2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported 3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint

Thanks for the great stuff as usual jt.

My thoughts...

1- When did the Giants become so damned soft? My favorite non-LT clip of the 80s Giants involved Phil Simms walking to the sideline yelling at Bill Parcells. Parcells then slightly turns and over his shoulder yells to Simms, "SIT DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!" They didn't trade Phil Simms. No one's panties exploded. How many offensive coordinators have been cursed out by Tom Brady in full view of the world? It's more than one, yet no one got fired or traded. It would be great if everyone was Larry Fitzgerald or Barry Sanders, but no... people are going to curse out other people and they're going to get cursed out. Welcome to the world of professional sports. Steve Kerr is about to win his 4th ring and he's probably been cursed out by Draymond Green 700 times.

2- I don't doubt anything that is said here, especially the injury part. But let's look at it the other way. If you don't think Odell Beckham's transcendent talents extended Eli's career, then you're a fool (not you specifically jt). And if that caused Odell to feel a certain kind of way, so be it. I go back to my original "The Giants are delusional" post. This isn't 2006 when Tiki leaves and a young Eli will get better. It's 2019... ELI MANNING IS NOT GETTING BETTER! If you watch the games, he doesn't see people who're wide open when he has time to throw. He misses wide open people he actually sees them. The playoff game thing is a moron test. Does anyone remember what Eli Manning looked like in his first playoff game? Hello? Anyone?

3- There's only one way Beckham's "attitude" could infiltrate teammates. That's because there's no belief in the head coach, the GM, the owner, and the QB. If the QB was really good, it would provide an alternative and no one would follow the WR. If people trusted that the head coach was terrific at his job and was a leader of men, no one would follow the WR. They can only follow the WR when there's a black hole of talent and leadership in the most important areas of a football team.

In comment 14340257 giants#1 said:

Quote:

In comment 14340255 Pan-handler said: Quote: stuff have any heat to it whatsoever? He already said the Rosen stuff is false.

Hoping it is a diversion. Beat writers lurk here because they know insiders post here. I am sure other teams know too.

In comment 14340257 giants#1 said:

Quote:

In comment 14340255 Pan-handler said: Quote: stuff have any heat to it whatsoever? He already said the Rosen stuff is false.

Did he say false? I thought he just said he hasn't heard anything.


I'm waiting on a shep trade between now and the draft.

In comment 14340330 The Dude said:

Quote:

In comment 14340257 giants#1 said: Quote: In comment 14340255 Pan-handler said: Quote: stuff have any heat to it whatsoever? He already said the Rosen stuff is false. Did he say false? I thought he just said he hasn't heard anything. I'm waiting on a shep trade between now and the draft.

Expect Shep, but don't be surprised if Engram is on the move also.

In comment 14340300 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

Quote:

In comment 14339144 jtgiants said: Quote: 1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there. 2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported 3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint Thanks for the great stuff as usual jt. My thoughts... 1- When did the Giants become so damned soft? My favorite non-LT clip of the 80s Giants involved Phil Simms walking to the sideline yelling at Bill Parcells. Parcells then slightly turns and over his shoulder yells to Simms, "SIT DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!" They didn't trade Phil Simms. No one's panties exploded. How many offensive coordinators have been cursed out by Tom Brady in full view of the world? It's more than one, yet no one got fired or traded. It would be great if everyone was Larry Fitzgerald or Barry Sanders, but no... people are going to curse out other people and they're going to get cursed out. Welcome to the world of professional sports. Steve Kerr is about to win his 4th ring and he's probably been cursed out by Draymond Green 700 times. 2- I don't doubt anything that is said here, especially the injury part. But let's look at it the other way. If you don't think Odell Beckham's transcendent talents extended Eli's career, then you're a fool (not you specifically jt). And if that caused Odell to feel a certain kind of way, so be it. I go back to my original "The Giants are delusional" post. This isn't 2006 when Tiki leaves and a young Eli will get better. It's 2019... ELI MANNING IS NOT GETTING BETTER! If you watch the games, he doesn't see people who're wide open when he has time to throw. He misses wide open people he actually sees them. The playoff game thing is a moron test. Does anyone remember what Eli Manning looked like in his first playoff game? Hello? Anyone? 3- There's only one way Beckham's "attitude" could infiltrate teammates. That's because there's no belief in the head coach, the GM, the owner, and the QB. If the QB was really good, it would provide an alternative and no one would follow the WR. If people trusted that the head coach was terrific at his job and was a leader of men, no one would follow the WR. They can only follow the WR when there's a black hole of talent and leadership in the most important areas of a football team.

If Phil Simms told Bill Parcells to fuck off and walked off the field to get an IV before the first half ended Bill would have punched Phil in the face. Bill and Phil were in same foxhole when the shit was flying. Shurmur and OBJ have no such bond. Apples Oranges

to shut the fuck up would make him quiet and play harder.....

Give me a break.

In comment 14340349 dep026 said:

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to shut the fuck up would make him quiet and play harder..... Give me a break.

Making him quiet isn't important... getting the most out of him is.

Football is an emotional game and people are going to say crazy things to each other. If you can't handle that, then you probably shouldn't be coaching professional sports.

In comment 14338785 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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- Are they not aware of the QBs available in next year's draft? - Are they not aware they scored more points in Beckham's last 4 games than they did in the last 4 games without him? - The two teams that needed the games last year when we didn't have Beckham held Saquon Barkley to 74 yards rushing on 35 carries. The Giants embarrassed themselves against the Titans and couldn't beat a Dallas team sitting many stars. - What makes them think they were better? That they almost beat the Colts? Just completely fucking delusional. What are they trying to prove? These motherfuckers really don't want Tua or Herbert. I guess we'll be looking at Eli forever.

Dude, go have a drink or something.

In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said:

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Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019

It won’t be hard if the OL is adequate. I’m absolutely sure of it.

In comment 14340422 djm said:

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Dude, go have a drink or something.

I'm sorry if "Sit back and enjoy the process" with this leadership group isn't enough for me.

in the building?

In comment 14340437 shockeyisthebest8056 said:

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In comment 14340422 djm said: Quote: Dude, go have a drink or something. I'm sorry if "Sit back and enjoy the process" with this leadership group isn't enough for me.

I respect your right to complain and you are doing it the right place. OBJ lost me last year. I was on his side before last year, but the sitting, The IVs, the interview on the heals of 95 million. GTFO OBJ don't let the door hit you in the ass. I am happy he is gone. It isn't an unreasonable take either.

In comment 14338887 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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.

Who says we did in the first place? The giants don’t want to cut Eli for a shittier and equally expensive veteran in fa. They also don’t want to go without a vet if and when the draft a rookie qb. Why is this so hard for some to comprehend? It’s nowhere near the big deal some here insist on it being.

Day after day post after post make it stop.

Because of this big bad Eli cap hit that you all obsess over day after day? Who? And again, they aren’t going “vetless” at qb if they draft a kid!

There can be middle ground.

In comment 14340344 Thegratefulhead said:

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In comment 14340300 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: In comment 14339144 jtgiants said: Quote: 1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there. 2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported 3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint Thanks for the great stuff as usual jt. My thoughts... 1- When did the Giants become so damned soft? My favorite non-LT clip of the 80s Giants involved Phil Simms walking to the sideline yelling at Bill Parcells. Parcells then slightly turns and over his shoulder yells to Simms, "SIT DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!" They didn't trade Phil Simms. No one's panties exploded. How many offensive coordinators have been cursed out by Tom Brady in full view of the world? It's more than one, yet no one got fired or traded. It would be great if everyone was Larry Fitzgerald or Barry Sanders, but no... people are going to curse out other people and they're going to get cursed out. Welcome to the world of professional sports. Steve Kerr is about to win his 4th ring and he's probably been cursed out by Draymond Green 700 times. 2- I don't doubt anything that is said here, especially the injury part. But let's look at it the other way. If you don't think Odell Beckham's transcendent talents extended Eli's career, then you're a fool (not you specifically jt). And if that caused Odell to feel a certain kind of way, so be it. I go back to my original "The Giants are delusional" post. This isn't 2006 when Tiki leaves and a young Eli will get better. It's 2019... ELI MANNING IS NOT GETTING BETTER! If you watch the games, he doesn't see people who're wide open when he has time to throw. He misses wide open people he actually sees them. The playoff game thing is a moron test. Does anyone remember what Eli Manning looked like in his first playoff game? Hello? Anyone? 3- There's only one way Beckham's "attitude" could infiltrate teammates. That's because there's no belief in the head coach, the GM, the owner, and the QB. If the QB was really good, it would provide an alternative and no one would follow the WR. If people trusted that the head coach was terrific at his job and was a leader of men, no one would follow the WR. They can only follow the WR when there's a black hole of talent and leadership in the most important areas of a football team. If Phil Simms told Bill Parcells to fuck off and walked off the field to get an IV before the first half ended Bill would have punched Phil in the face. Bill and Phil were in same foxhole when the shit was flying. Shurmur and OBJ have no such bond. Apples Oranges

FYI. just for posterity, the incident that you guys are referencing between Parcells and Simms happened before halftime of the Giants vs. Colts game on Monday Night in 1990. The Giants were up 17-0 in a game they win in a walk 24-7 to go to 8-0.

Anyway, their argument stemmed on a playcall on 3rd down and a throw to Rodney Hampton. Parcells didn't like Simms decision. Parcells yelled at Simms, Simms came back at Parcells to argue. And that's when the cameras caught Parcells yelling at Simms "sit the fuck down and shut your fucking mouth".

Frank Gifford said something like "we apologize to all you lip readers out there." And after that Gifford said that Parcells told them the reason he gets the most out of his players is because he's not afraid to go after his best players, like LT and Simms so the rest of the team understands. Al Michaels said "well, that's a perfect example there".

What was interesting was what happened next. After a few plays, they show Simms stewing on the sidelines, holding a football. Parcells then looks over his shoulder and nods to Simms to come over. That's when Michaels said "ok, now they are going to kiss and make up." Parcells and Simms then calmly talk things over on the sidelines after the heat of the moment passed.

And Michaels said my favorite line as you saw the two of them intently patching things up. "Folks, if you are just joining us, these guys are winning 17-0" . When I get home, I might pull down that whole clip and post it for fun.

For sure the truth is not so obvious as what Mike Francesa and the Giants' FO are now laying out - hello folks, they've traded a potential HOF player and now's the time to crank up the Spin!

What UberAlias brings up should not be dismissed out of hand. What if Beckham is right, that Eli himself is one of the weakest links on the team?

So OBJ said to Shurmur to "puck off"? Really that's a reason to trade him? Or not showing up for a Giants sponsored event because Francesca is MCing it is that a reason to dump a guy? Now using his quad bruise to sit out the last 4 games of 2018... that's a reason to trade a guy. Unless of course, they guy knew he wasn't in the team's long range plan ALREADY. Then maybe, just maybe, his sitting his ass down is, somehow, appropriate? Or at least in his own mind somehow justified because he knows the team is moving on from him?

I am not defending OBJ here - but criticism of Eli is valid, and if Beckham is right we'll see it on the field while the Browns sail into the playoffs and the Giants go 6-10 or worse again.

Is anyone gonna be surprised if the Giants suck again in 2019 and Eli again performs among the bottom third or quartile in the league according to TotalQBR?

i won't be.

Either in the media or to other teammates? No chance. If OBJ was whining to his friends on the team about Eli, he was polluting the culture. It's a loser/me first thing to do, and it can NEVER help a team. Be a good soldier to your boss, and a good teammate, or get lost.

And Matt, Simms and Parcells LOVED each other. There was so much mutual respect that they could interact, including in that situation cursing, without it causing a fissure in the team, decreasing the respect the team had for either of them, or diminishing Parcells' authority. Shurmur, a first year head coach for us, hasn't had the time or the success to allow a player to tell him to fuck off without potentially losing his team's respect or causing a rift between those players who might see OBJ as a dick and those who love the guy. It's a cancerous behavior.

In comment 14338758 jtgiants said:

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Trade. I can say, in terms of Beckham, these things always get out. As for QB. Whatever they do Eli is the QB this year

for a while anyway...

What’s the latest- Anything on Remmers, another defender or a trade?