Here's where we stand

...stronger than my coffee this morning. So looks like Shep is history and related to why Golden Tate was signed to play the slot.

I am intrigued by:

On top of the issues that haven't even been reported.

In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:

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2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win.

Might as well make him player-GM at this point.

also, why were you up throughout the night? My excuse was my dog had to go out and I made the mistake of looking at BBI at 3 AM and saw the thread and couldn't fall back asleep until 4:30 ;)

As for Shepard, I think the Tate signing made him expendable and the Giants aren't going to break the bank on him as a free agent.

Since getting another draft pick for him doesn't make much sense with 12 picks already, I'm thinking the Giants go to the Cardinals and offer Shepard and a 4th for Rosen. That way if they aren't going to go up for Murray, I still don't like any of the other QBs in this draft and they are pretty much the same risk/potential as Rosen. In this scenario, you keep all your high picks to fill in the roster with a huge infusion of talent.

In comment 14339130 mikeinbloomfield said:

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if its at the expense of getting a replacement for Eli. Choosing the QB is the hardest and most important thing in football. If you can't figure out how to do it when you've got all these assets now, when do you do it? Let's pretend that Gettleman is right and the things he is doing improve the team. What QB is going to be available at 10 or 11 next year? Or does that when the real rebuild start?

2 of the top 3 picks this year will absolutely not be taking a QB. The same situation will probably happen next year. Would anyone be surprised if the bills or jets are drafting top 3? Arizona again? Odds are one or multiple teams will be in a position to draft one of the QBs and have no interest to do so — just like the Colts last year.

The Giants will either lose enough to draft their guy or win and give up what it takes to get the QB.

As others have said - appreciate the juicy incite.

In comment 14339185 Matt in SGS said:

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Since getting another draft pick for him doesn't make much sense with 12 picks already, I'm thinking the Giants go to the Cardinals and offer Shepard and a 4th for Rosen. That way if they aren't going to go up for Murray, I still don't like any of the other QBs in this draft and they are pretty much the same risk/potential as Rosen. In this scenario, you keep all your high picks to fill in the roster with a huge infusion of talent.

Unfortunately, jtgiants seems to be saying the team won't be getting any QB this offseason. Not Haskins, not Murray, not Rosen. If their plan is to win, at even 8-8 they are likely out of the running for Fromm or Tua, so probably no QB in 2020 either.

That's not what he said.

He simply said Eli will be the starter.

Hall of Asshats?

I say he should be the introductory member.

Most asshats I remember havent been this talkative, forthcoming and definitely not this accurate.

Is not a good sign. I know many here will dismiss, but the guys was with him in the locker room, in the huddle, and at the end of his passes. The former WR has similar take as the former coach. Eli’s been a constant throughout the losing and to this point the blame has been placed everywhere but.

For some reason I couldn't sleep. Not sure why I was up to be honest

In comment 14339200 Chris684 said:

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Hall of Asshats? I say he should be the introductory member. Most asshats I remember havent been this talkative, forthcoming and definitely not this accurate.

Agreed - Not once did I fetch my Capt Crunch decoder ring! Awesome & good for my heart.

In comment 14339194 Lambuth_Special said:

Quote:

In comment 14339185 Matt in SGS said: Quote: Since getting another draft pick for him doesn't make much sense with 12 picks already, I'm thinking the Giants go to the Cardinals and offer Shepard and a 4th for Rosen. That way if they aren't going to go up for Murray, I still don't like any of the other QBs in this draft and they are pretty much the same risk/potential as Rosen. In this scenario, you keep all your high picks to fill in the roster with a huge infusion of talent. Unfortunately, jtgiants seems to be saying the team won't be getting any QB this offseason. Not Haskins, not Murray, not Rosen. If their plan is to win, at even 8-8 they are likely out of the running for Fromm or Tua, so probably no QB in 2020 either.

I don't think he's said that. He just said Eli is the starter this year.

In comment 14339198 Eric from BBI said:

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That's not what he said. He simply said Eli will be the starter.

Eric, this was his 3:21 a.m. response to Matt's post speculating that they'll either take a QB at 6, trade up for Murray, or trade for Rosen:

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You could be right but I don't see it that way.

.

In comment 14339203 jtgiants said:

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For some reason I couldn't sleep. Not sure why I was up to be honest

On the trade you mentioned. Are the Giants trying to aquire more draft picks or are they trying to acquire players? Thanks

In comment 14339198 Eric from BBI said:

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That's not what he said. He simply said Eli will be the starter.

Thanks Eric. The conclusions being drawn here are off the charts. I think all of this makes it more likely that they are trying to get a QB (at 6 or higher) this year.

I'm inclined to trust his word.

I guess they still could pick a QB at 17 or in the 2nd, but that doesn't jive with DG's stated philosophy.

Thanks for the info

Definitely disagree with the team is ready to win now, but let's see how the draft unfolds.

The Beckham stuff - culture matters people! Especially in the ultimate team sport.

about a Shep trade, Gettleman seems to really like player for player deals. Wouldn't surprise me if they went offense for defense here.

In comment 14339201 UberAlias said:

Quote:

Is not a good sign. I know many here will dismiss, but the guys was with him in the locker room, in the huddle, and at the end of his passes. The former WR has similar take as the former coach. Eli’s been a constant throughout the losing and to this point the blame has been placed everywhere but.

This is such a copout. Defending Beckham at this point is wrong IMO. We knew how much of a distraction he was before the trade, and with all the ino JTGiants has provided - it really seems like OBJ is a pure ass, plain and simple.

This whole constant of losing is just bad on fans part. Are we saying he hasnt been a constant? We were 25-34 with him in the lineup. Is that not a constnat? Have we had a top tier run game or defense in the last 7-8 years?

The constant has been the team has been terrible on many levels. And yes the QB hasnt been playing near the best in the league - but what group or positions have for us? Sure Beckham has played awesome. But who else? 1 year of barkley? 1 year of Collins? Who else?

Can't say I love the "we can win right now" approach for this particular group, but c'est la vie.

Tate signing makes a world more sense with the color that Shepard could be the next one out the door.

In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:

Quote:

1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there. 2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported 3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint

Shepard is next. For everyone wondering why they signed another slot reciever, there's your answer.

In comment 14339144 jtgiants said:

Quote:

1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there. 2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported 3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint

this all makes complete sense to me and it's what I said immediately in thread where everyone's freaking out when was traded. Of course there was more that we don't know. You don't trade Hall of Fame caliber receiver without reason. Knowing all this makes me certain DG did well. If we let it go longer we were going to get a new Antonio Brown return. I think that's an absolute fact. I have been staunchly Eli is done and we need a new QB. I still desperately would like another QB on the roster. I really appreciate all the info you're giving us even though this known as what we want to hear.

In comment 14339203 jtgiants said:

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For some reason I couldn't sleep. Not sure why I was up to be honest

You have not helped with our sleep or work productivity, but I am good with that. Keep it coming!

The comments were made in private, not public. It’s his opinion. He may be an ass, but does that mean his opinion is unqualified?

In comment 14339194 Lambuth_Special said:

Quote:

In comment 14339185 Matt in SGS said: Quote: Since getting another draft pick for him doesn't make much sense with 12 picks already, I'm thinking the Giants go to the Cardinals and offer Shepard and a 4th for Rosen. That way if they aren't going to go up for Murray, I still don't like any of the other QBs in this draft and they are pretty much the same risk/potential as Rosen. In this scenario, you keep all your high picks to fill in the roster with a huge infusion of talent. Unfortunately, jtgiants seems to be saying the team won't be getting any QB this offseason. Not Haskins, not Murray, not Rosen. If their plan is to win, at even 8-8 they are likely out of the running for Fromm or Tua, so probably no QB in 2020 either.

Reading is fundamental. He never said the Giants wouldn't geta QB, just that Eli is the starter. I now actually am firmly in Eli's corner. Give him one last shot without the BS, some solid players at WR (solid, smart, team guys) and let Barkley be your superstar..

Not sure why some fans are so bitter about the Giants seriously gearing up to win with Eli. I don’t think this is about nostalgia. I think it’s about reality. If you have a QB like Eli, you hang onto him and go for SBs for as long as his mind is right and his arm can make all the throws. Which he can btw despite all the nonsense that’s out thrown out there.

What is the harm of going for it this year while strengthening the Oline, defense and rebuilding the culture? The next young QB benefit from all this.

On what the over/under will be for view and post count for this thread?

We jettisoned a talented but troubled player, we traded for an veteran all pro, we signed one of Bettcher’s former players who supposedly thrived under his system, we paid big free agent dollars to shore up the OL, we brought in a whole bunch of lower tier FA veterans to improve the locker room culture etc etc. So this year, we’re really going to compete by getting rid of even more talented players but bringing in more 2nd tier vets? Why are we supposed to believe the free agent signings this year will be better than the Rileys, Barwins, Omamehs and Stewarts of last season? Those acquisitions weren’t made by the ghost of Jerry Reese, they were made by Gettelman and the current Giants pro personnel department. So far, they've actually managed to make the team older. I want to see them building a long-term winning team, not making moves because they made a promise to Eli or because Gettleman is doubling down on last year's mess to prove he's the smartest guy in the room.

In comment 14339209 Big Rick in FL said:

Quote:

In comment 14339203 jtgiants said: Quote: For some reason I couldn't sleep. Not sure why I was up to be honest On the trade you mentioned. Are the Giants trying to aquire more draft picks or are they trying to acquire players? Thanks

Has to be for players... If DG is shipping out our 2 starting WR's, SOMEONE has to run routes!! lol.. And this isnt a sure fire WR draft (my opinion)

In comment 14339232 PerpetualNervousness said:

Quote:

We jettisoned a talented but troubled player, we traded for an veteran all pro, we signed one of Bettcher’s former players who supposedly thrived under his system, we paid big free agent dollars to shore up the OL, we brought in a whole bunch of lower tier FA veterans to improve the locker room culture etc etc. So this year, we’re really going to compete by getting rid of even more talented players but bringing in more 2nd tier vets? Why are we supposed to believe the free agent signings this year will be better than the Rileys, Barwins, Omamehs and Stewarts of last season? Those acquisitions weren’t made by the ghost of Jerry Reese, they were made by Gettelman and the current Giants pro personnel department. So far, they've actually managed to make the team older. I want to see them building a long-term winning team, not making moves because they made a promise to Eli or because Gettleman is doubling down on last year's mess to prove he's the smartest guy in the room.

Stop looking at things through a vaccuum and understand they are fluid.

but, if the Giants wanted to make a BIG trade, Shepard and some picks to Jax for Jaylen Ramsey.. Why you ask, one Ramsey kind of wearing his welcome out in Jax and two, he is dating Golden Tate's sister and they just had a baby. He was actively trying to get Jax to sign him so family could be together.

Pat Kirwin spoke about this at length Tuesday and Wednesday on Sirius.

In comment 14339227 UberAlias said:

Quote:

The comments were made in private, not public. It’s his opinion. He may be an ass, but does that mean his opinion is unqualified?

Ok.

I am on board with what they are doing.

OBJ....4 years of alot of flash but it didnt translate to winning.

We saw what the team did without him with just a passable OL the last 3 of 4 games...27,40 and 35 points. New identity with Barkley.

Remmers will be a nice additional peace if he decides to join us.

In comment 14339194 Lambuth_Special said:

Quote:

In comment 14339185 Matt in SGS said: Quote: Since getting another draft pick for him doesn't make much sense with 12 picks already, I'm thinking the Giants go to the Cardinals and offer Shepard and a 4th for Rosen. That way if they aren't going to go up for Murray, I still don't like any of the other QBs in this draft and they are pretty much the same risk/potential as Rosen. In this scenario, you keep all your high picks to fill in the roster with a huge infusion of talent. Unfortunately, jtgiants seems to be saying the team won't be getting any QB this offseason. Not Haskins, not Murray, not Rosen. If their plan is to win, at even 8-8 they are likely out of the running for Fromm or Tua, so probably no QB in 2020 either.

Jt can clarify, but I"m taking what he said that "no matter what, Eli is the QB" to mean, even if they get a QB in the draft or trade, Eli is starting. To me, I think it's understood if it's a rookie coming in. Rosen is the one which you'd need a qualifier because he already has started in the league, so even if he's here, he's sitting behind Eli. I listened to the Giants Insider podcast on the way into work today and they were saying that Gettleman liked Rosen last year.

Also, if you go back to my long thread yesterday about Murray, I think the Giants are going to get a QB this draft because otherwise they will be walking right into that QB hell that Gettleman said (ie- a team wins 7,8,9 games and are too far back to empty the farm to trade up to get a top QB). The Giants are picking 6. They are right in that range right now.

If the Giants don't see Haskins as good enough to get at 6 (which I believe jt said), I see a handful of possibilities

1) Use their draft picks to trade up high to get Murray in picks 1-3, since he will never get past the Raiders at 4
2) Pick a defensive player at 6 and watch what happens with Haskins/Lock and Jones (barf, I don't want him). If they keep sliding and are in striking distance, they trade their 17 and other draft picks to move up a few spots to snag one of them.
3) Trade for Rosen (assuming Murray is the pick for Arizona).

The Giants simply cannot come out of this draft without a QB. It's all there for them. They have the picks to move up to get him in the first round. Eli is still the starter so you have the "KC Model" in place. And even the Giants realize they need to find his replacement, even if they are trying to send him out a winner on a competitive team.

In comment 14339237 jvm52106 said:

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but, if the Giants wanted to make a BIG trade, Shepard and some picks to Jax for Jaylen Ramsey.. Why you ask, one Ramsey kind of wearing his welcome out in Jax and two, he is dating Golden Tate's sister and they just had a baby. He was actively trying to get Jax to sign him so family could be together. Pat Kirwin spoke about this at length Tuesday and Wednesday on Sirius.

Ramsey may be more of a headache than he's worth.

In comment 14339230 BBelle21 said:

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Not sure why some fans are so bitter about the Giants seriously gearing up to win with Eli. I don’t think this is about nostalgia. I think it’s about reality. If you have a QB like Eli, you hang onto him and go for SBs for as long as his mind is right and his arm can make all the throws. Which he can btw despite all the nonsense that’s out thrown out there. What is the harm of going for it this year while strengthening the Oline, defense and rebuilding the culture? The next young QB benefit from all this.

I have been admittingly very critical of Eli, in that he no longer sees the field & locks into his 1st read... If new WR's who run the intended/good routes & make the adjustments that Eli is reading... I will GLADLY eat my hat.

I have a hard time imagining the Giants, after what they just went through with Beckham, would choose to bring in Ramsey and deal with him yapping and calling out every player in the league on a weekly basis.

In comment 14338796 hitdog42 said:

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Is about Eli and restoring the perception of him in 2019

I totally agree.

And that is totally absurd.

Where is Fat-Mara in Charlotte, btw, to address this?

That's not the culture they want to achieve.

Jalen Ramsey is an annoying asshole. I don't want him.

I saw the same thing.

A lot of this is like Nostradamus - you can make the hint fit the narrative you want. Things can change even if an asshat could come right out and beat us over the head with info, but there were some very good clues (and a few jumps to conclusion regarding the clues).

In comment 14339232 PerpetualNervousness said:

Quote:

We jettisoned a talented but troubled player, we traded for an veteran all pro, we signed one of Bettcher’s former players who supposedly thrived under his system, we paid big free agent dollars to shore up the OL, we brought in a whole bunch of lower tier FA veterans to improve the locker room culture etc etc. So this year, we’re really going to compete by getting rid of even more talented players but bringing in more 2nd tier vets? Why are we supposed to believe the free agent signings this year will be better than the Rileys, Barwins, Omamehs and Stewarts of last season? Those acquisitions weren’t made by the ghost of Jerry Reese, they were made by Gettelman and the current Giants pro personnel department. So far, they've actually managed to make the team older. I want to see them building a long-term winning team, not making moves because they made a promise to Eli or because Gettleman is doubling down on last year's mess to prove he's the smartest guy in the room.

The OL was much more a project than could be fixed in one fell swoop. We hoped the changes we made were enough but they werent. An immobile QB like Eli will not look good if he is getting bigtime pressure through the A gaps (few QBs for that matter would look too good either)

In comment 14339254 Chris684 said:

Quote:

I have a hard time imagining the Giants, after what they just went through with Beckham, would choose to bring in Ramsey and deal with him yapping and calling out every player in the league on a weekly basis.

Ramsey is cut from the same Douche Cloth as OBJ.. No thx

On your #3 point, the trade. Would this occur around the NFL Draft or is a trade likely to occur over the next week or so?

In comment 14339243 Matt in SGS said:

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Unfortunately, jtgiants seems to be saying the team won't be getting any QB this offseason. Not Haskins, not Murray, not Rosen. If their plan is to win, at even 8-8 they are likely out of the running for Fromm or Tua, so probably no QB in 2020 either. Jt can clarify, but I"m taking what he said that "no matter what, Eli is the QB" to mean, even if they get a QB in the draft or trade, Eli is starting. To me, I think it's understood if it's a rookie coming in. Rosen is the one which you'd need a qualifier because he already has started in the league, so even if he's here, he's sitting behind Eli. I listened to the Giants Insider podcast on the way into work today and they were saying that Gettleman liked Rosen last year.

I see what you mean, thanks for the clarification.

Overall, I've liked DG's moves this offseason, I just would be pretty concerned if they didn't make a play for QB even if they were to sit behind Eli.

In comment 14338758 jtgiants said:

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Trade. I can say, in terms of Beckham, these things always get out. As for QB. Whatever they do Eli is the QB this year

Just guessing but I think 2nd CB is probably the next highest priority. Need a vet alongside JJ. Like when we picked up Sam Madison to complement Webster and Ross as a rookie was our 3rd CB

I think he'd have to improve a lot to justify becoming a core piece going forward so it may make sense to cash in now. He's also had his fair share of injuries, so if they can swap him in a similar way as they did Vernon, that could make sense. Someone like Chris Hogan could very well replace his production. And with all the picks they have drafting someone like Renfrow in round 4/5 seems like an easy decision.

To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit.

refuse to accept the literal fact that Eli will have $0.00 dollars against the cap next year. If we cut him this year...who gives a shit. We will still have to pay him decent coin, and he's probably a better option than a rookie playing right away anyway.