Here's where we stand

In comment 14339243 Matt in SGS said:

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In comment 14339194 Lambuth_Special said: Quote: In comment 14339185 Matt in SGS said: The Giants simply cannot come out of this draft without a QB. It's all there for them. They have the picks to move up to get him in the first round. Eli is still the starter so you have the "KC Model" in place. And even the Giants realize they need to find his replacement, even if they are trying to send him out a winner on a competitive team.

This is what seems most obvious about what the Giants are doing and comments by DG. "Waiting until next year" is a fantasy not a plan. I don't know who they like or don't but they can't come away without a QB when picking in the top 6 two years in a row.

In comment 14338799 George from PA said:

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Trading for Rosen

I think the Arizona coach will convince the GM to get Miller so the GM will makes some calls to see what he can get for Rosen first. If he can get a number one pick either this year or next I think he makes the trade. So, do the Giants want to trade our number 17 to get Rosen? Ideally it would be better to trade our 35 pick but I think other teams will do better....like Washington or Miami. Not sure about Cincinnati.

In comment 14339280 jtgiants said:

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To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit.

Thank you for that clarification and everything else. You're the best.

In comment 14339280 jtgiants said:

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To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit.

This is good news for the people wanting to draft a QB. Jt flat out said multiple times last year we weren't taking a QB high.

In comment 14339280 jtgiants said:

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To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit.

I see, my bad. Thanks for the info.

3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint



Re: #3, which makes the Golden Tate signing make even more sense. [/quote]

Tate coykd be used to salvage SS too. He was very close to OBJ and may nor be in line for a new deal without a break through year and there is nobody better then Tate for SS to learn from on and off the field.

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information. Thanks.

It certainly sounds as if Shepard is likely to be traded. I'm fine with that.

As I've said, I would pass on every QB except a trade for Rosen, and possibly Lock at #17.

In comment 14339296 micky said:

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The goal is to try and be competitive every season, even while rebuilding. I really don't understand why this concept is so hard to people to grasp. Rebuilding doesn't automatically mean tanking.

In comment 14339216 dep026 said:

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In comment 14339201 UberAlias said: Quote: Is not a good sign. I know many here will dismiss, but the guys was with him in the locker room, in the huddle, and at the end of his passes. The former WR has similar take as the former coach. Eli’s been a constant throughout the losing and to this point the blame has been placed everywhere but. This is such a copout. Defending Beckham at this point is wrong IMO. We knew how much of a distraction he was before the trade, and with all the ino JTGiants has provided - it really seems like OBJ is a pure ass, plain and simple. This whole constant of losing is just bad on fans part. Are we saying he hasnt been a constant? We were 25-34 with him in the lineup. Is that not a constnat? Have we had a top tier run game or defense in the last 7-8 years? The constant has been the team has been terrible on many levels. And yes the QB hasnt been playing near the best in the league - but what group or positions have for us? Sure Beckham has played awesome. But who else? 1 year of barkley? 1 year of Collins? Who else?

We’ll find out this year I guess. Unless Eli’s morphing into a guy who is throwing accurate lasers all over the field and somehow isn’t gun shy anymore at age 38, I have my doubts.

I can say that a lot of my fears over a "win this year" approach are tempered by the fact that the Giants have 12 draft picks. That does give you some luxury to compete while stocking for the future.

In comment 14339296 micky said:

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No, it isn't. They aren't not doing something for the future to win now. They're building the best team they can which is their job.

Stem from conduct at work or off duty? Recognizing you can’t give specifics.

In comment 14339279 Eric on Li said:

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I think he'd have to improve a lot to justify becoming a core piece going forward so it may make sense to cash in now. He's also had his fair share of injuries, so if they can swap him in a similar way as they did Vernon, that could make sense. Someone like Chris Hogan could very well replace his production. And with all the picks they have drafting someone like Renfrow in round 4/5 seems like an easy decision.

This is what people want - for them to trade players they don't intend on keeping so they get something in return.

I'm sure the pitchforks will be out anyway though.

I would still like to see them sign Hogan.

appreciate the info.

A question - have you any comment on the level of agreement between Gettleman and Shurmur on all of these moves? I'm curious about how tight they are. We've heard rumors about different opinions on players (Shurmur advocated signing OBJ while others were not so sure) and we know that no two people agree on everything, so I'm wondering if you've heard anything that might indicate how much Shurmur is being included in this current plan.

Also, there has been speculation for a year now on the team's commitment to Eli. Some have suggested that a commitment to Eli was a requirement for any HC or GM candidate last year. Any thoughts on that line of thinking? Is there room in the org for people who disagree with that take? I'm wondering if the team's commitment to Eli being the starter this year could be driven more by ownership than by the football people in the org.

Murray, Rosen, Tua, Fromm, Herbert.

jt's comments sound to me like they actually plan on going QB in the draft... this year.

My concern is that they do one of two things:

- trade up in round one
- draft a second round talent (Jones) at 17

Cutting Eli is the right move, but if he's around at least he's still easy to pull for.

In comment 14339319 Chris684 said:

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Murray, Rosen, Tua, Fromm, Herbert.

I wouldnt rule out Josh Eason either.

We will draft/acquire a QB this year - Eli is going to remain here, be the starter for as long as the team is winning. If they're not, the other guy is going to get the football and that will probably be the end of the Eli era.

In comment 14339280 jtgiants said:

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To be clear. I never said they wouldn't get another QB. What i have told you is as long as the Giants are mathmatically alive in a playoff race Eli will be the starter. Again. They want to win this year. Anyone they bring in will sit.

But you have said they like the projected QB’s in 2020, with one (Fromm) in particular.

since that fits like a glove with the draft board and their needs but can't force it.

is getting rid of everyone he thinks is damaging to the culture he wants to establish. That is the common denominator in the trades of Apple, Harrison, and Beckham.

Last offseason was a disaster for this front office. They've gotten a lot more right this offseason. I actually like how the team is starting to look.

In comment 14339281 ryanmkeane said:

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refuse to accept the literal fact that Eli will have $0.00 dollars against the cap next year. If we cut him this year...who gives a shit. We will still have to pay him decent coin, and he's probably a better option than a rookie playing right away anyway.

Like you, I’m okay with a rookie watching one year just like MAHOMES did. Eli showed me he can still play when given a decent line. Our line will be much improved.

In comment 14339310 Les in TO said:

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Stem from conduct at work or off duty? Recognizing you can’t give specifics.

My guess is "Sex, Drugs & Rock n Roll" in his free time.

but I'd pause before we just run him out of town. He's a tough kid who I thought showed commitment to the team with his run blocking late in the season. Solid receiver who may get to another level with more opportunity now. He just might find that OBJ moving on was the best thing for him on and off the field.

In comment 14339329 AcidTest said:

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is getting rid of everyone he thinks is damaging to the culture he wants to establish. That is the common denominator in the trades of Apple, Harrison, and Beckham.

not to mention cutting Flowers and not re-signing Flowers. We”ll see if it translates to sustainable success on the field.

Another 3rd round pick? I’d be on board with that.

In comment 14339330 Go Terps said:

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Last offseason was a disaster for this front office. They've gotten a lot more right this offseason. I actually like how the team is starting to look.

Thumbs up.

In comment 14339334 Kyle in NY said:

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but I'd pause before we just run him out of town. He's a tough kid who I thought showed commitment to the team with his run blocking late in the season. Solid receiver who may get to another level with more opportunity now. He just might find that OBJ moving on was the best thing for him on and off the field.

I don't disagree with you at all - but... I think Tate does make him expendable, and if we can recoup something for him now - i.e.. defensive talent, more draft capital, etc... I think that's actually the right move and preferable to paying Shepard market value on a new contract after the season.

In comment 14339334 Kyle in NY said:

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but I'd pause before we just run him out of town. He's a tough kid who I thought showed commitment to the team with his run blocking late in the season. Solid receiver who may get to another level with more opportunity now. He just might find that OBJ moving on was the best thing for him on and off the field.

As many know I am not a SS guy. But I do agree with this. I believe in 2nd chances, and who knows maybe Odell had a negative effect on him. There were times when he wasnt on the field that he did produce.

Really good post Kyle.

In comment 14339311 Brown Recluse said:

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In comment 14339279 Eric on Li said: Quote: I think he'd have to improve a lot to justify becoming a core piece going forward so it may make sense to cash in now. He's also had his fair share of injuries, so if they can swap him in a similar way as they did Vernon, that could make sense. Someone like Chris Hogan could very well replace his production. And with all the picks they have drafting someone like Renfrow in round 4/5 seems like an easy decision. This is what people want - for them to trade players they don't intend on keeping so they get something in return. I'm sure the pitchforks will be out anyway though. I would still like to see them sign Hogan.

I agree this is exactly what they should be doing - what's perplexing is that they are doing that with everyone who has value to return a draft pick (i.e. not Eli) and as you said the pitchforks are out anyway.

Glad to see you coming around.

I think DG's job description the last 12-15 months has been garbage man. Ridding this roster of the stink.

Gutting a secondary that went off the rails in 2017. DRC, Collins, Apple.

Snacks who admittedly had no interest in being a leader.

Obviously Beckham and his followers, now rumors of Shep, the Roger Lewis's of the world, probably had to do with Collins as well.

The common thread is culture. And while on the surface Stewart and Barwin didn't make sense on a talent level, maybe he was/is trying to get guys who know how to be professional football players in there; Golden Tate, Zeitler.

The 2018 draft was filled with not only talent but a bunch of kids who came in like seasoned vets with the exception of Lauletta who obviously took a dump on whatever slim chances of a future he had here.

In comment 14339330 Go Terps said:

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Last offseason was a disaster for this front office. They've gotten a lot more right this offseason. I actually like how the team is starting to look.

But if 1 player obj was still on..it'd be a total disaster all the way around every move😉

the goal is to win now. The season like last year is a failure if they don't win. And the GM and Coach should be fired if the they drop another 5-11 bomb.

In comment 14339334 Kyle in NY said:

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but I'd pause before we just run him out of town. He's a tough kid who I thought showed commitment to the team with his run blocking late in the season. Solid receiver who may get to another level with more opportunity now. He just might find that OBJ moving on was the best thing for him on and off the field.

I don't disagree with this - I wouldn't trade him just to trade him for a random mid-round pick.

If someone offered a similar number pick to where he was drafted I'd trade him because I think that's good asset management. He hasn't really outplayed where he was drafted. Or if there were a player at a more critical position available for a swap. If we were interested in Rosen for example, that would make a lot of sense.

What do you think of reaching out to him? Denver LB.

I heard from someone in the know that he might be moved. If you start to piece together what the Giants are doing and win now, they have the picks to get him (he probably will cost similar to Brown). He's 31. The Giants could bring him in and give him an extension with the cap space they have next year. And it would go with the mantra the Giants are trying to win now. Personally, I'd pass, but if the Giants are shipping out Shepard, they aren't leaving Eli with too much to work with at WR.

In comment 14339353 micky said:

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In comment 14339330 Go Terps said: Quote: Last offseason was a disaster for this front office. They've gotten a lot more right this offseason. I actually like how the team is starting to look. But if 1 player obj was still on..it'd be a total disaster all the way around every move😉

No, but it was by far the best thing they did. His presence was a big net negative.

In comment 14339337 Sean said:

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Another 3rd round pick? I’d be on board with that.

I'd be shocked and thrilled w that. 5th or 6th sounds more like the right price.

I'd be furious if my team traded a 3rd rounder for SS.

In comment 14339360 Matt in SGS said:

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I heard from someone in the know that he might be moved. If you start to piece together what the Giants are doing and win now, they have the picks to get him (he probably will cost similar to Brown). He's 31. The Giants could bring him in and give him an extension with the cap space they have next year. And it would go with the mantra the Giants are trying to win now. Personally, I'd pass, but if the Giants are shipping out Shepard, they aren't leaving Eli with too much to work with at WR.

Age & Injuries may not be worth the price...

In comment 14339336 Les in TO said:

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In comment 14339329 AcidTest said: Quote: is getting rid of everyone he thinks is damaging to the culture he wants to establish. That is the common denominator in the trades of Apple, Harrison, and Beckham. not to mention cutting Flowers and not re-signing Flowers. We”ll see if it translates to sustainable success on the field.

Agreed.

In comment 14339369 bigbluehoya said:

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In comment 14339337 Sean said: Quote: Another 3rd round pick? I’d be on board with that. I'd be shocked and thrilled w that. 5th or 6th sounds more like the right price. I'd be furious if my team traded a 3rd rounder for SS.

They can get more than a 5th for Shep next offseason as a comp pick.

Assuming you will be in a position to draft one next year is very risky. The Giants could well end up with 7-8 wins if things break right and then you are officially in QB hell.

They have the draft capital to do it this year and should go after the guy they want...whomever it is.

can't discount the fact that we may also get a tremendously motivated Shepard because of that. 11 games played without Beckham he's at 59 catches for 746 yards. That is a 1,085 yard pace over 16 games on some pretty poor to mediocre offenses. Beckham may have been a poor influence but I never got the sense that Shepard was a real problem. And if you watch some of the mic'd up segments (SF game for example) he and Eli seem to have a good rapport

Tate will be 31 this season. While I do like the signing a bit, I don't think the 26 year old Shepard should automatically be expendable now. Let's see Shurmur get creative with these weapons on offense.

If there's an interesting player for player trade that could help on defense, I'd listen. But for another mid round pick, I'm not so sure. Decent chance you could still re-coup something for him at the deadline in season if things go south anyway.

Great stuff.

think with Shepard, it may be less about his relationship with Beckham, and more that he's almost certainly gone after this season. So why not get something for him now?

In comment 14339354 bluepepper said:

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the goal is to win now. The season like last year is a failure if they don't win. And the GM and Coach should be fired if the they drop another 5-11 bomb.

I think this should absolutely be on the table if Eli does not play well and they have not brought on a viable backup either through the draft or a trade.

and can't speak to how he is/isn't in the locker room, but based on contracts this year that worse players got (Humphries, Crowder, Beasley), Shepard is probably looking at $11-12M per season MINIMUM. That's a lot of money for a good, not great, player. So if you can get good value in a trade, I'd seriously consider it.


(or we can let him walk and hope for BBI's new craze, comp picks in 2021!)