Here's where we stand

Because of this big bad Eli cap hit that you all obsess over day after day? Who? And again, they aren’t going “vetless” at qb if they draft a kid!

There can be middle ground.

In comment 14340344 Thegratefulhead said:

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In comment 14340300 shockeyisthebest8056 said: Quote: In comment 14339144 jtgiants said: Quote: 1. Beckham on more than one occasion told Shurmer to duck off. Shurmer was his biggest ally. He caused his own problem there. 2. The Giants are bringing Eli back. Always were and promised him they would do all they can to win. Also don't think Eli lost sleep over losing Beckham. Trust me on that. Privately Beckham blamed his injuries and the losing on Eli. The Giants told Beckham he never plays and causes distractions. Also the biggest game of hos life. Eli was great and Beckham sucked. His act and demands wore thin. On top of the issues that haven't even been reported 3. Beckham's attitude infiltrated teammates. Those guys should rent. Not buy. Hint. Hint Thanks for the great stuff as usual jt. My thoughts... 1- When did the Giants become so damned soft? My favorite non-LT clip of the 80s Giants involved Phil Simms walking to the sideline yelling at Bill Parcells. Parcells then slightly turns and over his shoulder yells to Simms, "SIT DOWN AND SHUT THE FUCK UP!" They didn't trade Phil Simms. No one's panties exploded. How many offensive coordinators have been cursed out by Tom Brady in full view of the world? It's more than one, yet no one got fired or traded. It would be great if everyone was Larry Fitzgerald or Barry Sanders, but no... people are going to curse out other people and they're going to get cursed out. Welcome to the world of professional sports. Steve Kerr is about to win his 4th ring and he's probably been cursed out by Draymond Green 700 times. 2- I don't doubt anything that is said here, especially the injury part. But let's look at it the other way. If you don't think Odell Beckham's transcendent talents extended Eli's career, then you're a fool (not you specifically jt). And if that caused Odell to feel a certain kind of way, so be it. I go back to my original "The Giants are delusional" post. This isn't 2006 when Tiki leaves and a young Eli will get better. It's 2019... ELI MANNING IS NOT GETTING BETTER! If you watch the games, he doesn't see people who're wide open when he has time to throw. He misses wide open people he actually sees them. The playoff game thing is a moron test. Does anyone remember what Eli Manning looked like in his first playoff game? Hello? Anyone? 3- There's only one way Beckham's "attitude" could infiltrate teammates. That's because there's no belief in the head coach, the GM, the owner, and the QB. If the QB was really good, it would provide an alternative and no one would follow the WR. If people trusted that the head coach was terrific at his job and was a leader of men, no one would follow the WR. They can only follow the WR when there's a black hole of talent and leadership in the most important areas of a football team. If Phil Simms told Bill Parcells to fuck off and walked off the field to get an IV before the first half ended Bill would have punched Phil in the face. Bill and Phil were in same foxhole when the shit was flying. Shurmur and OBJ have no such bond. Apples Oranges

FYI. just for posterity, the incident that you guys are referencing between Parcells and Simms happened before halftime of the Giants vs. Colts game on Monday Night in 1990. The Giants were up 17-0 in a game they win in a walk 24-7 to go to 8-0.

Anyway, their argument stemmed on a playcall on 3rd down and a throw to Rodney Hampton. Parcells didn't like Simms decision. Parcells yelled at Simms, Simms came back at Parcells to argue. And that's when the cameras caught Parcells yelling at Simms "sit the fuck down and shut your fucking mouth".

Frank Gifford said something like "we apologize to all you lip readers out there." And after that Gifford said that Parcells told them the reason he gets the most out of his players is because he's not afraid to go after his best players, like LT and Simms so the rest of the team understands. Al Michaels said "well, that's a perfect example there".

What was interesting was what happened next. After a few plays, they show Simms stewing on the sidelines, holding a football. Parcells then looks over his shoulder and nods to Simms to come over. That's when Michaels said "ok, now they are going to kiss and make up." Parcells and Simms then calmly talk things over on the sidelines after the heat of the moment passed.

And Michaels said my favorite line as you saw the two of them intently patching things up. "Folks, if you are just joining us, these guys are winning 17-0" . When I get home, I might pull down that whole clip and post it for fun.

For sure the truth is not so obvious as what Mike Francesa and the Giants' FO are now laying out - hello folks, they've traded a potential HOF player and now's the time to crank up the Spin!

What UberAlias brings up should not be dismissed out of hand. What if Beckham is right, that Eli himself is one of the weakest links on the team?

So OBJ said to Shurmur to "puck off"? Really that's a reason to trade him? Or not showing up for a Giants sponsored event because Francesca is MCing it is that a reason to dump a guy? Now using his quad bruise to sit out the last 4 games of 2018... that's a reason to trade a guy. Unless of course, they guy knew he wasn't in the team's long range plan ALREADY. Then maybe, just maybe, his sitting his ass down is, somehow, appropriate? Or at least in his own mind somehow justified because he knows the team is moving on from him?

I am not defending OBJ here - but criticism of Eli is valid, and if Beckham is right we'll see it on the field while the Browns sail into the playoffs and the Giants go 6-10 or worse again.

Is anyone gonna be surprised if the Giants suck again in 2019 and Eli again performs among the bottom third or quartile in the league according to TotalQBR?

i won't be.

Either in the media or to other teammates? No chance. If OBJ was whining to his friends on the team about Eli, he was polluting the culture. It's a loser/me first thing to do, and it can NEVER help a team. Be a good soldier to your boss, and a good teammate, or get lost.

And Matt, Simms and Parcells LOVED each other. There was so much mutual respect that they could interact, including in that situation cursing, without it causing a fissure in the team, decreasing the respect the team had for either of them, or diminishing Parcells' authority. Shurmur, a first year head coach for us, hasn't had the time or the success to allow a player to tell him to fuck off without potentially losing his team's respect or causing a rift between those players who might see OBJ as a dick and those who love the guy. It's a cancerous behavior.

In comment 14338758 jtgiants said:

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Trade. I can say, in terms of Beckham, these things always get out. As for QB. Whatever they do Eli is the QB this year

for a while anyway...

What’s the latest- Anything on Remmers, another defender or a trade?