The other thing is that, for whatever reason, superstar receivers just don’t win championships in the NFL. What seems to work better is a receiver corps with 3-4 solid guys each of whom can make plays.
The above is from the article and I agree one hundred percent. You need to have your head examined to make one WR a centerpiece of your team. This is especially true if they display even a whiff of the diva type distraction behaviors like Beckham did. Just think of the playoff game boat trip and antics prior to the Green Bay loss and poor play by Beckham on the biggest stage.
Ridiculous, and it just does not win.
A full corps of receiving options that compliment each other, can reliably do their job and can catch the ball consistently and when it counts is the way to go. It just throws off an offense to have one big-time receiver. The objective becomes, get this guy the ball, instead of let's move down the field and score no matter who contributes.
One exception to me would be a Fitzgerald type who is all business and is also physically large. Players like this do not grow on trees.
"there doesn’t seem to be much love for Ohio State’s Dwayne Haskins within the organzation; while he’s got a decent arm, its not entirely clear Haskins could beat Eli in a foot race and they really would like a QB with at least some mobility."
"there doesn’t seem to be much love for Ohio State’s Dwayne Haskins within the organzation; while he’s got a decent arm, its not entirely clear Haskins could beat Eli in a foot race and they really would like a QB with at least some mobility."
God, I hope this is true. Our HC says you need a QB who can move so why would they go with Haskins? It really makes no sense. But, I wouldn't believe anything that they are "hearing" at this point.
The “Giants don’t have a plan posse” should read this. I think Eli stays no matter what, and I don’t agree with all the draft predictions but this is as good an explaination as I’ve seen about the OBJ trade.
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
RE: Why would rosen want to come here and sit a year behind eli Â
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
Rosen has no choice.
Good QBs tend to last longer than players at other positions and he still gets paid. Not sure what you are trying to say?
RE: Why would rosen want to come here and sit a year behind eli Â
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
I don’t know JR but I’d think hed be fine with sitting behind Eli.
RE: RE: Why would rosen want to come here and sit a year behind eli Â
If Rosen has attitude issues (supposedly he does), it would be a good thing to learn how to be pro from Eli. And, he could put some heat on Manning to perform as well.
If they acquire him, he will not start. But, he will play when they are eliminated from contention for a playoff spot for sure.
He's an accurate thrower, his highlights from USC indicate this. He can make all the throws. That's the most important thing. Have to think they are in touch with the Cardinals on him.
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
Rosen has no choice.
Good QBs tend to last longer than players at other positions and he still gets paid. Not sure what you are trying to say?
These takes continue to be supported by nothing but conjecture Â
If Rosen has attitude issues (supposedly he does), it would be a good thing to learn how to be pro from Eli. And, he could put some heat on Manning to perform as well.
If they acquire him, he will not start. But, he will play when they are eliminated from contention for a playoff spot for sure.
He's an accurate thrower, his highlights from USC indicate this. He can make all the throws. That's the most important thing. Have to think they are in touch with the Cardinals on him.
In comment 14338877 ZogZerg said:
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In comment 14338875 micky said:
Quote:
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
Rosen has no choice.
Good QBs tend to last longer than players at other positions and he still gets paid. Not sure what you are trying to say?
turn down for the Giants. But I think it would be hard for the Cards to accept. They moved up in the 2018 draft to pick him at 10, only to them let him go after his rookie season for a third? Sure he didn't lite it up last year, but how much can you take away from a rookie QB playing behind an OL worse than the Giants OL.
RE: Why would rosen want to come here and sit a year behind eli Â
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
Rosen would have nothing to learn from Manning regarding mechanics and how to physically play QB. But with the inference that the questions around Rosen is attitude/personality, having Eli to learn from and emulate is what the Giants would like whether it is Rosen, Haskins, Jones, et al. It is a culture change. That is why Eli is the last man standing. Rosen has been gobbling up some humble pie since his draft day fall to getting pummeled in the desert to what looks like getting shipped out of town. Taking a breather and watching and learning from Eli in how to conduct one's business and most importantly how to conduct the Giants business is what the Giants want.
Look, by all accounts Webb was the anointed one based on everything he said and studying and being Eli's shadow. The paid publicity from the Giants couldn't say enough good things about him. The problem with Webb is that he couldn't play. Kyle on the other hand has squandered his opportunity with his sleepy-head speed racer impersonation.
RE: RE: Why would rosen want to come here and sit a year behind eli Â
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
Rosen would have nothing to learn from Manning regarding mechanics and how to physically play QB. But with the inference that the questions around Rosen is attitude/personality, having Eli to learn from and emulate is what the Giants would like whether it is Rosen, Haskins, Jones, et al. It is a culture change. That is why Eli is the last man standing. Rosen has been gobbling up some humble pie since his draft day fall to getting pummeled in the desert to what looks like getting shipped out of town. Taking a breather and watching and learning from Eli in how to conduct one's business and most importantly how to conduct the Giants business is what the Giants want.
Look, by all accounts Webb was the anointed one based on everything he said and studying and being Eli's shadow. The paid publicity from the Giants couldn't say enough good things about him. The problem with Webb is that he couldn't play. Kyle on the other hand has squandered his opportunity with his sleepy-head speed racer impersonation.
Eh, there’s been no hard proof Rosen’s attitude is an issue but I’ll play along. I’m not wasting a year of Rosen’s on the field growth for the off chance his attitude changes sitting behind Eli for a year. You can bring in a backup vet who can teach him how to be a pro while also playing Rosen every single week.
Grown men can't get enough of this "he's got an attitude" shit. Â
They passed on several first round options last year while holding the #2 overall pick. They now command the #6 and #17 picks in this year's draft. If they improve this season, they'll play themselves out of any shot at any of the top QB prospects in next year's draft. So what is the plan? They had options last year. They have resources and options this year, but are they motivated? It's the single most important question to the franchise.
They can't pass on him out of worries about sitting him. You can't keep passing on opportunities or your are going to run out of them. But what we are hearing is that they are not interested. Fine. So then what???
RE: RE: RE: Why would rosen want to come here and sit a year behind eli Â
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
Rosen would have nothing to learn from Manning regarding mechanics and how to physically play QB. But with the inference that the questions around Rosen is attitude/personality, having Eli to learn from and emulate is what the Giants would like whether it is Rosen, Haskins, Jones, et al. It is a culture change. That is why Eli is the last man standing. Rosen has been gobbling up some humble pie since his draft day fall to getting pummeled in the desert to what looks like getting shipped out of town. Taking a breather and watching and learning from Eli in how to conduct one's business and most importantly how to conduct the Giants business is what the Giants want.
Look, by all accounts Webb was the anointed one based on everything he said and studying and being Eli's shadow. The paid publicity from the Giants couldn't say enough good things about him. The problem with Webb is that he couldn't play. Kyle on the other hand has squandered his opportunity with his sleepy-head speed racer impersonation.
Eh, there’s been no hard proof Rosen’s attitude is an issue but I’ll play along. I’m not wasting a year of Rosen’s on the field growth for the off chance his attitude changes sitting behind Eli for a year. You can bring in a backup vet who can teach him how to be a pro while also playing Rosen every single week.
I personally don't consider Rosen having an attitude problem. But when JonC. chimes in that is the concern, I have reason to believe that those inside the Giants do. What you are missing is that any retread vet QB can show a player how to be a pro, but there is only one who can show a player how to conduct the Giants way of business. The guy that is The Franchise. The guy that the Giants have invested over $230M in.
You may not like it or agree with it. But John and Steve still believe in Eli.
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
First it doesn't matter what he thinks, it is a trade, he is not being courted through FA. Second, he would be going to a team where he knows one year from now (or sooner) he will be the next franchise QB leading an O with a lot of fire power (even without OBJ)
Some girl snorting coke bothered the team. That’s a guy you o ow you want to build around. Behavior like that needs to be encouraged. I’m sure Mara wanted more of that.
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
I don’t know JR but I’d think hed be fine with sitting behind Eli.
The general knock on Rosen is that he is arrogant and aloof. That doesn’t sound like a guy who wants to hold a clipboard after he started most of last year.
If the Giants truly want this year to be Eli and have a guy develop behind him, Rosen doesn’t make much sense. You are wasting not only a year of him being cost controlled, you are also likely stunting his development and souring him on the organization.
Is not going to transform Rosen into Eli. He’s a grown man with a fully developed personality. Eli can teach him how to prepare, how to read a defense, how to handle the media and how to conduct himself with the team. He can’t make him have Eli’s personality.
At the risk of giving away some of Colin's thunder... Â
The general knock on Rosen is that he is arrogant and aloof. That doesn’t sound like a guy who wants to hold a clipboard after he started most of last year.
If the Giants truly want this year to be Eli and have a guy develop behind him, Rosen doesn’t make much sense. You are wasting not only a year of him being cost controlled, you are also likely stunting his development and souring him on the organization.
After getting the crap knocked out of him last season, I never heard anyone say he was arrogant or aloof. And would you want a guy to come here and not want to be playing?
I still think this is too perfect a situation to pass on, especially if the market is that cold right now - hell if it is true only the Giants are in, offer a 4th. As pointed out, they are giving scrubs $2 mill contracts. Getting Rosen for a third at that price is a steal.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Why would rosen want to come here and sit a year behind eli Â
The general knock on Rosen is that he is arrogant and aloof. That doesn’t sound like a guy who wants to hold a clipboard after he started most of last year.
If the Giants truly want this year to be Eli and have a guy develop behind him, Rosen doesn’t make much sense. You are wasting not only a year of him being cost controlled, you are also likely stunting his development and souring him on the organization.
After getting the crap knocked out of him last season, I never heard anyone say he was arrogant or aloof. And would you want a guy to come here and not want to be playing?
I still think this is too perfect a situation to pass on, especially if the market is that cold right now - hell if it is true only the Giants are in, offer a 4th. As pointed out, they are giving scrubs $2 mill contracts. Getting Rosen for a third at that price is a steal.
I agree acquiring Rosen is a good idea. Plenty of potential, not expensive and easy to cut bait if he doesn’t develop. But if they acquire him I think you have to play him, which means Eli need to be cut now.
I don’t think cutting Eli is at all on the radar of the Giants. If that is true, I don’t think it makes sense to acquire Rosen.
"I don’t think cutting Eli is at all on the radar of the Giants. If that is true, I don’t think it makes sense to acquire Rosen."
The logic is that Rosen becomes a cheap alternative to Eli and if he doesn't work out, then Giants try to find their QB in 2020 Draft (or maybe in free agency).
I agree with you that I don't believe Eli is on radar to be cut, but Colin's logic suggests that maybe this SHOULD be on our radar!
I think we are in complete agreement. I think the Giants should be prepared to release Eli if they will either acquire Rosen or draft a QB in the first round. This discussion of following the KC model I think is nonsense. Mahomes is succeeding because he is good, not because he learned a ton from Alex Smith. Baker Mayfield seems to be doing just fine being thrown to the wolves.
My concern is that the Giants decision making at the QB position is being driven by how it will make Eli feel, or how will it reflect on Eli, which is not how you run a business or successful team.
I don't know if Rosen is a NYG fit but I don't care about that as much as I think he's a short termer in the league. I fear we would get all our ducks set and right when we are ready to go, he forgets his name and the day of the week and then retires. I'm content to wait on a QB and to build the best team possible that's just missing a QB who can step in (and not even have to sit and learn for a year) and I believe that there are several of those available next year.
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
Rosen would have nothing to learn from Manning regarding mechanics and how to physically play QB. But with the inference that the questions around Rosen is attitude/personality, having Eli to learn from and emulate is what the Giants would like whether it is Rosen, Haskins, Jones, et al. It is a culture change. That is why Eli is the last man standing. Rosen has been gobbling up some humble pie since his draft day fall to getting pummeled in the desert to what looks like getting shipped out of town. Taking a breather and watching and learning from Eli in how to conduct one's business and most importantly how to conduct the Giants business is what the Giants want.
Look, by all accounts Webb was the anointed one based on everything he said and studying and being Eli's shadow. The paid publicity from the Giants couldn't say enough good things about him. The problem with Webb is that he couldn't play. Kyle on the other hand has squandered his opportunity with his sleepy-head speed racer impersonation.
I think there's a lot of truth to this. I originally thought that there was no way the Giants would trade for Rosen after paying Eli his $5M roster bonus. But Rosen is very cheap, and as you note, would benefit from learning how to play QB in New York. It would also fit DG's desire to follow the "KC" model.
I still don't think the Giants will trade for Rosen, but that is because his personality apparently doesn't mesh with what they are seeking. But then I was also certain we would never trade OBJ.
Get Rosen for a 3rd, see what you have, and then spend the farm in 2020 if Rosen is JAG. I think it will take at least their 2nd to get him, but I would still be on board with it. Would be nice to trade the 17th for a 2020 first (and more), to align for the worst case.
I bet DG would let him go in a New York minute but Mara would never let this happen. They will let Eli go out on his terms....classy move but is it best for the team?
I don't know if I am sold on him. Seems the following is the perception of him:
The good:
-Football IQ and intelligence in general
-Excellent feet in the pocket
-Size
-Arm is perfectly fine though not elite
-Accurate
-Fundamentally sound for a young QB
The bad or at least questionable:
-Personality (is he a Jay Cutler type)
-Injury factor; are either the concussions or the big knee brace he wears cause for concern
-Work ethic -differing opinions on this
That being said, if they like him, and if he could be acquired for a 3rd or even a 3rd plus a 3rd next year (we would replace that 3rd via compensatory pick for Landon Collins); then it would free up the two 1s and the 2nd for something like:
I think we are in complete agreement. I think the Giants should be prepared to release Eli if they will either acquire Rosen or draft a QB in the first round. This discussion of following the KC model I think is nonsense. Mahomes is succeeding because he is good, not because he learned a ton from Alex Smith. Baker Mayfield seems to be doing just fine being thrown to the wolves.
My concern is that the Giants decision making at the QB position is being driven by how it will make Eli feel, or how will it reflect on Eli, which is not how you run a business or successful team.
I hear ya, and definitely agree regarding the Smith/Mahomes situation!
Definitely will be interesting to see how the Eli situation plays out. If he's here for all of 2019 season, then some level of "sentiment" must have been at play. And if he's cut in favor of Rosen, then maybe many of us over-estimated the sentiment factor.
But right before last years draft he said that the Giants were going to take either Darnold at 2 if he was there from what he was hearing.
I would be thrilled with Murray even with a trade up but I agree with Colin here it appears that Arizona has made up it's mind. I like his suggestion of trading a conditional 3rd for Rosen.
Too bad the Giants star WR wasn’t named Larry Fitzgerald Â
If you trade for Rosen and you're confident he's the guy long-term, it might be worth keeping Eli and managing a gradual transition, to maximize Rosen's chances of success as well as the 2019 team's chances of making the playoffs.
On the other hand, if you're adding Rosen because he's cheap and might be the guy, it probably makes more sense to cut Eli, throw Rosen into the fire and see what he's got.
I suspect this is all academic. Colin's most interesting note about Rosen is that nobody else seems terribly interested in acquiring him.
RE: Colin's view underscores an irony in the Rosen situation. Â
If you trade for Rosen and you're confident he's the guy long-term, it might be worth keeping Eli and managing a gradual transition, to maximize Rosen's chances of success as well as the 2019 team's chances of making the playoffs.
On the other hand, if you're adding Rosen because he's cheap and might be the guy, it probably makes more sense to cut Eli, throw Rosen into the fire and see what he's got.
I suspect this is all academic. Colin's most interesting note about Rosen is that nobody else seems terribly interested in acquiring him.
Great points. If they did acquire Rosen then they would need to move on from Eli to give Rosen an entire season to prove that he is the long term answer. If he doesn't improve as the season progresses or his focus for things other than football turn the team off they could then turn their sights to Fromm, Tua, Herbert, etc in 2020.
Elite QB prospect, picked by many as the top QB in last years heavy QB draft. Smart, great arm, moves well enough, and a year of starting under his belt. To even get him for a 2nd would be great. Fixes our "QB of the future" problem (at least as well as anything can).
RE: Colin and I are on the same page regarding #17 Â
Elite QB prospect, picked by many as the top QB in last years heavy QB draft. Smart, great arm, moves well enough, and a year of starting under his belt. To even get him for a 2nd would be great. Fixes our "QB of the future" problem (at least as well as anything can).
Would love this scenario as well. We'd have a full year to evaluate him in our building (whether he starts or not) and decide if we want to move forward with him or not. For a 3rd round pick it almost definitely is worth it. Talent isnt the issue here (like OBJ its the attitude/commitment)
The other thing is that, for whatever reason, superstar receivers just don’t win championships in the NFL. What seems to work better is a receiver corps with 3-4 solid guys each of whom can make plays.
The above is from the article and I agree one hundred percent. You need to have your head examined to make one WR a centerpiece of your team. This is especially true if they display even a whiff of the diva type distraction behaviors like Beckham did. Just think of the playoff game boat trip and antics prior to the Green Bay loss and poor play by Beckham on the biggest stage.
Ridiculous, and it just does not win.
A full corps of receiving options that compliment each other, can reliably do their job and can catch the ball consistently and when it counts is the way to go. It just throws off an offense to have one big-time receiver. The objective becomes, get this guy the ball, instead of let's move down the field and score no matter who contributes.
One exception to me would be a Fitzgerald type who is all business and is also physically large. Players like this do not grow on trees.
Were not Plaxico Burress, Hakim Nicks, and Victor Cruz "big time" receivers, and the Giants win XLII, and XLVI without them?
just to answer the neverending BBI-analysis of the guy. Last year was bad enough but now all the same questions (concussion, character, his father, his attitude) resurface, again and again and again. That is so tiresome.
RE: RE: Why would rosen want to come here and sit a year behind eli Â
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
Rosen has no choice.
Good QBs tend to last longer than players at other positions and he still gets paid. Not sure what you are trying to say?
The Giants are still a premier franchise in the world's biggest, brightest market. An opportunity to be the Giants QB is a BFD.
I agree, if we could somehow pick up Rosen for a 2 or 3 pick NOW, we can let Eli go and expect this to be Rosen’s team for the next decade. It makes perfect sense, but I don’t think Cards are ready to make the call yet. I’m sure they are not unanimous in what to do and they have no reason to rush a trade. The longer they wait the more they can probably get.
Thank you for the info
The above is from the article and I agree one hundred percent. You need to have your head examined to make one WR a centerpiece of your team. This is especially true if they display even a whiff of the diva type distraction behaviors like Beckham did. Just think of the playoff game boat trip and antics prior to the Green Bay loss and poor play by Beckham on the biggest stage.
Ridiculous, and it just does not win.
A full corps of receiving options that compliment each other, can reliably do their job and can catch the ball consistently and when it counts is the way to go. It just throws off an offense to have one big-time receiver. The objective becomes, get this guy the ball, instead of let's move down the field and score no matter who contributes.
One exception to me would be a Fitzgerald type who is all business and is also physically large. Players like this do not grow on trees.
God, I hope this is true. Our HC says you need a QB who can move so why would they go with Haskins? It really makes no sense. But, I wouldn't believe anything that they are "hearing" at this point.
Thanks for posting!
I would be glad to do so, but I have no idea how to do it.
Rosen has no choice.
Good QBs tend to last longer than players at other positions and he still gets paid. Not sure what you are trying to say?
I don’t know JR but I’d think hed be fine with sitting behind Eli.
If they acquire him, he will not start. But, he will play when they are eliminated from contention for a playoff spot for sure.
He's an accurate thrower, his highlights from USC indicate this. He can make all the throws. That's the most important thing. Have to think they are in touch with the Cardinals on him.
In comment 14338877 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
Rosen has no choice.
Good QBs tend to last longer than players at other positions and he still gets paid. Not sure what you are trying to say?
It's strange how the hardest-line critics of the player are the ones who get "driven crazy" by nonsense such as playing with a kicking net.
It's strange how the hardest-line critics of the player are the ones who get "driven crazy" by nonsense such as playing with a kicking net.
Which is ironic given Tate got told to tone down his celebrations. I expected the Odell slander to come after they traded him.
If they acquire him, he will not start. But, he will play when they are eliminated from contention for a playoff spot for sure.
He's an accurate thrower, his highlights from USC indicate this. He can make all the throws. That's the most important thing. Have to think they are in touch with the Cardinals on him.
In comment 14338877 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
In comment 14338875 micky said:
Quote:
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
Rosen has no choice.
Good QBs tend to last longer than players at other positions and he still gets paid. Not sure what you are trying to say?
He didn't play at USC. :)
Rosen would have nothing to learn from Manning regarding mechanics and how to physically play QB. But with the inference that the questions around Rosen is attitude/personality, having Eli to learn from and emulate is what the Giants would like whether it is Rosen, Haskins, Jones, et al. It is a culture change. That is why Eli is the last man standing. Rosen has been gobbling up some humble pie since his draft day fall to getting pummeled in the desert to what looks like getting shipped out of town. Taking a breather and watching and learning from Eli in how to conduct one's business and most importantly how to conduct the Giants business is what the Giants want.
Look, by all accounts Webb was the anointed one based on everything he said and studying and being Eli's shadow. The paid publicity from the Giants couldn't say enough good things about him. The problem with Webb is that he couldn't play. Kyle on the other hand has squandered his opportunity with his sleepy-head speed racer impersonation.
Quote:
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
Rosen would have nothing to learn from Manning regarding mechanics and how to physically play QB. But with the inference that the questions around Rosen is attitude/personality, having Eli to learn from and emulate is what the Giants would like whether it is Rosen, Haskins, Jones, et al. It is a culture change. That is why Eli is the last man standing. Rosen has been gobbling up some humble pie since his draft day fall to getting pummeled in the desert to what looks like getting shipped out of town. Taking a breather and watching and learning from Eli in how to conduct one's business and most importantly how to conduct the Giants business is what the Giants want.
Look, by all accounts Webb was the anointed one based on everything he said and studying and being Eli's shadow. The paid publicity from the Giants couldn't say enough good things about him. The problem with Webb is that he couldn't play. Kyle on the other hand has squandered his opportunity with his sleepy-head speed racer impersonation.
Eh, there’s been no hard proof Rosen’s attitude is an issue but I’ll play along. I’m not wasting a year of Rosen’s on the field growth for the off chance his attitude changes sitting behind Eli for a year. You can bring in a backup vet who can teach him how to be a pro while also playing Rosen every single week.
Quote:
In comment 14338875 micky said:
Quote:
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
Rosen would have nothing to learn from Manning regarding mechanics and how to physically play QB. But with the inference that the questions around Rosen is attitude/personality, having Eli to learn from and emulate is what the Giants would like whether it is Rosen, Haskins, Jones, et al. It is a culture change. That is why Eli is the last man standing. Rosen has been gobbling up some humble pie since his draft day fall to getting pummeled in the desert to what looks like getting shipped out of town. Taking a breather and watching and learning from Eli in how to conduct one's business and most importantly how to conduct the Giants business is what the Giants want.
Look, by all accounts Webb was the anointed one based on everything he said and studying and being Eli's shadow. The paid publicity from the Giants couldn't say enough good things about him. The problem with Webb is that he couldn't play. Kyle on the other hand has squandered his opportunity with his sleepy-head speed racer impersonation.
Eh, there’s been no hard proof Rosen’s attitude is an issue but I’ll play along. I’m not wasting a year of Rosen’s on the field growth for the off chance his attitude changes sitting behind Eli for a year. You can bring in a backup vet who can teach him how to be a pro while also playing Rosen every single week.
I personally don't consider Rosen having an attitude problem. But when JonC. chimes in that is the concern, I have reason to believe that those inside the Giants do. What you are missing is that any retread vet QB can show a player how to be a pro, but there is only one who can show a player how to conduct the Giants way of business. The guy that is The Franchise. The guy that the Giants have invested over $230M in.
You may not like it or agree with it. But John and Steve still believe in Eli.
Quote:
When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
I don’t know JR but I’d think hed be fine with sitting behind Eli.
The general knock on Rosen is that he is arrogant and aloof. That doesn’t sound like a guy who wants to hold a clipboard after he started most of last year.
If the Giants truly want this year to be Eli and have a guy develop behind him, Rosen doesn’t make much sense. You are wasting not only a year of him being cost controlled, you are also likely stunting his development and souring him on the organization.
...but wanting to clarify what seems to be a misperception, the idea is to trade for Rosen and cut Eli.
NOT have Rosen learn behind Eli!
The general knock on Rosen is that he is arrogant and aloof. That doesn’t sound like a guy who wants to hold a clipboard after he started most of last year.
If the Giants truly want this year to be Eli and have a guy develop behind him, Rosen doesn’t make much sense. You are wasting not only a year of him being cost controlled, you are also likely stunting his development and souring him on the organization.
After getting the crap knocked out of him last season, I never heard anyone say he was arrogant or aloof. And would you want a guy to come here and not want to be playing?
I still think this is too perfect a situation to pass on, especially if the market is that cold right now - hell if it is true only the Giants are in, offer a 4th. As pointed out, they are giving scrubs $2 mill contracts. Getting Rosen for a third at that price is a steal.
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The general knock on Rosen is that he is arrogant and aloof. That doesn’t sound like a guy who wants to hold a clipboard after he started most of last year.
If the Giants truly want this year to be Eli and have a guy develop behind him, Rosen doesn’t make much sense. You are wasting not only a year of him being cost controlled, you are also likely stunting his development and souring him on the organization.
After getting the crap knocked out of him last season, I never heard anyone say he was arrogant or aloof. And would you want a guy to come here and not want to be playing?
I still think this is too perfect a situation to pass on, especially if the market is that cold right now - hell if it is true only the Giants are in, offer a 4th. As pointed out, they are giving scrubs $2 mill contracts. Getting Rosen for a third at that price is a steal.
I agree acquiring Rosen is a good idea. Plenty of potential, not expensive and easy to cut bait if he doesn’t develop. But if they acquire him I think you have to play him, which means Eli need to be cut now.
I don’t think cutting Eli is at all on the radar of the Giants. If that is true, I don’t think it makes sense to acquire Rosen.
"I don’t think cutting Eli is at all on the radar of the Giants. If that is true, I don’t think it makes sense to acquire Rosen."
The logic is that Rosen becomes a cheap alternative to Eli and if he doesn't work out, then Giants try to find their QB in 2020 Draft (or maybe in free agency).
I agree with you that I don't believe Eli is on radar to be cut, but Colin's logic suggests that maybe this SHOULD be on our radar!
My concern is that the Giants decision making at the QB position is being driven by how it will make Eli feel, or how will it reflect on Eli, which is not how you run a business or successful team.
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When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
Rosen would have nothing to learn from Manning regarding mechanics and how to physically play QB. But with the inference that the questions around Rosen is attitude/personality, having Eli to learn from and emulate is what the Giants would like whether it is Rosen, Haskins, Jones, et al. It is a culture change. That is why Eli is the last man standing. Rosen has been gobbling up some humble pie since his draft day fall to getting pummeled in the desert to what looks like getting shipped out of town. Taking a breather and watching and learning from Eli in how to conduct one's business and most importantly how to conduct the Giants business is what the Giants want.
Look, by all accounts Webb was the anointed one based on everything he said and studying and being Eli's shadow. The paid publicity from the Giants couldn't say enough good things about him. The problem with Webb is that he couldn't play. Kyle on the other hand has squandered his opportunity with his sleepy-head speed racer impersonation.
I think there's a lot of truth to this. I originally thought that there was no way the Giants would trade for Rosen after paying Eli his $5M roster bonus. But Rosen is very cheap, and as you note, would benefit from learning how to play QB in New York. It would also fit DG's desire to follow the "KC" model.
I still don't think the Giants will trade for Rosen, but that is because his personality apparently doesn't mesh with what they are seeking. But then I was also certain we would never trade OBJ.
The good:
-Football IQ and intelligence in general
-Excellent feet in the pocket
-Size
-Arm is perfectly fine though not elite
-Accurate
-Fundamentally sound for a young QB
The bad or at least questionable:
-Personality (is he a Jay Cutler type)
-Injury factor; are either the concussions or the big knee brace he wears cause for concern
-Work ethic -differing opinions on this
That being said, if they like him, and if he could be acquired for a 3rd or even a 3rd plus a 3rd next year (we would replace that 3rd via compensatory pick for Landon Collins); then it would free up the two 1s and the 2nd for something like:
Rashan Gary + Dalton Risner + Blake Cashman
or
Montez Sweat + Andre Dilliard + Zach Allen
My concern is that the Giants decision making at the QB position is being driven by how it will make Eli feel, or how will it reflect on Eli, which is not how you run a business or successful team.
I hear ya, and definitely agree regarding the Smith/Mahomes situation!
Definitely will be interesting to see how the Eli situation plays out. If he's here for all of 2019 season, then some level of "sentiment" must have been at play. And if he's cut in favor of Rosen, then maybe many of us over-estimated the sentiment factor.
I would be thrilled with Murray even with a trade up but I agree with Colin here it appears that Arizona has made up it's mind. I like his suggestion of trading a conditional 3rd for Rosen.
Boldin would have been a good name too!
...was a way of thanking him for all that he's done for the franchise, but then the Giants "retire" Eli before the season begins?
Ideal
1 (6) Montez Sweat
1 (17) Christian Wilkins
2 (37) Dalton Risner
On the other hand, if you're adding Rosen because he's cheap and might be the guy, it probably makes more sense to cut Eli, throw Rosen into the fire and see what he's got.
I suspect this is all academic. Colin's most interesting note about Rosen is that nobody else seems terribly interested in acquiring him.
On the other hand, if you're adding Rosen because he's cheap and might be the guy, it probably makes more sense to cut Eli, throw Rosen into the fire and see what he's got.
I suspect this is all academic. Colin's most interesting note about Rosen is that nobody else seems terribly interested in acquiring him.
Great points. If they did acquire Rosen then they would need to move on from Eli to give Rosen an entire season to prove that he is the long term answer. If he doesn't improve as the season progresses or his focus for things other than football turn the team off they could then turn their sights to Fromm, Tua, Herbert, etc in 2020.
Dillard would be an excellent pick if he makes it to 17. LT is the most important spot and he can play it.
Would love this scenario as well. We'd have a full year to evaluate him in our building (whether he starts or not) and decide if we want to move forward with him or not. For a 3rd round pick it almost definitely is worth it. Talent isnt the issue here (like OBJ its the attitude/commitment)
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The other thing is that, for whatever reason, superstar receivers just don’t win championships in the NFL. What seems to work better is a receiver corps with 3-4 solid guys each of whom can make plays.
The above is from the article and I agree one hundred percent. You need to have your head examined to make one WR a centerpiece of your team. This is especially true if they display even a whiff of the diva type distraction behaviors like Beckham did. Just think of the playoff game boat trip and antics prior to the Green Bay loss and poor play by Beckham on the biggest stage.
Ridiculous, and it just does not win.
A full corps of receiving options that compliment each other, can reliably do their job and can catch the ball consistently and when it counts is the way to go. It just throws off an offense to have one big-time receiver. The objective becomes, get this guy the ball, instead of let's move down the field and score no matter who contributes.
One exception to me would be a Fitzgerald type who is all business and is also physically large. Players like this do not grow on trees.
Were not Plaxico Burress, Hakim Nicks, and Victor Cruz "big time" receivers, and the Giants win XLII, and XLVI without them?
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When he already a year under his belt. It would be a waste of a year for him in an already short shelf life of a nfl player on avg. It wouldnt be wise for rosen when possibly going somewhere else and be starter
Rosen has no choice.
Good QBs tend to last longer than players at other positions and he still gets paid. Not sure what you are trying to say?
The Giants are still a premier franchise in the world's biggest, brightest market. An opportunity to be the Giants QB is a BFD.
I'm thinking the pocket would frequently maintain it's integrity with Hernandez-Bradbury-Zeitler in the middle.