Does Tate contract count against the compensation formula? He was traded mid-season, do the eagles get credit for that loss? Or is it similar to baseball where if you're traded, the compensation pick gets nulled out.
That next year when the NFL announces comp picks, BBI traffic will rival the draft and the start of free agency. The fascination with late round picks and the criticality of a potential late 3rd round pick is baffling.
That next year when the NFL announces comp picks, BBI traffic will rival the draft and the start of free agency. The fascination with late round picks and the criticality of a potential late 3rd round pick is baffling.
DG passing on trading Collins for Bucs high 3rd round pick before the trade deadline cannot be overlooked
And the Eagles name is not called thanks to their trade for Golden Tate.
You can all smile know he is on the Giants
but they'll probably/possibly recoup that 3rd round pick in 2020 because the Giants signed Tate. Still smiling?
The Eagles aren't getting a 3rd round pick because of Golden Tate. Most likely a 5th. He has a relatively small contract for this free agency. They'll get a 3rd for Foles though.
years BBI has been around, this is the most obsessed I've ever seen the site about comp picks.
Well it's not that crazy, in the sense that we all know we really are rebuilding this time around and rebuilding teams need as much draft capital as they can get. Especially if said rebuilding team does not have a QB and might need to be able to move up in a draft to get one.
RE: RE: RE: When the 3rd round comes around this year Â
And the Eagles name is not called thanks to their trade for Golden Tate.
You can all smile know he is on the Giants
but they'll probably/possibly recoup that 3rd round pick in 2020 because the Giants signed Tate. Still smiling?
The Eagles aren't getting a 3rd round pick because of Golden Tate. Most likely a 5th. He has a relatively small contract for this free agency. They'll get a 3rd for Foles though.
Exactly. I'm not sure why people think the Giants helped the Eagles just by being be ones to sign him. They were going to get the comp credit one way or the other.
years BBI has been around, this is the most obsessed I've ever seen the site about comp picks.
You aint kidding. Wait until the product is finished before you start bitching about "possible" comp picks. As some alluded to yesterday, over the cap had us getting a 3rd round and another comp pick and we ended up with a 5th. Apparently they were only wrong on three comp picks and we happened to be two of them.
It's not an exact science and for those basing every move the Giants make right now are just going to make themselves go crazy. Keep in mind, it also has to do with playing time as well. No way of knowing how this will shake out until midway through the season. Stop driving yourselves nuts.
years BBI has been around, this is the most obsessed I've ever seen the site about comp picks.
Have you noticed the same franchises generally get them and the same franchises generally don't?
Now look at their W/L records.
Not saying it's the only thing or the most important thing, but it definitely seems like a thing.
Article linked (from a couple years ago, the gap is wider now): "Comp picks are a reward for smart teams"
Quote:
...The list of teams that have received the most compensatory picks since 1994 is pretty similar to the list of the best teams in football since 1994: The Ravens have received the most compensatory picks, and they’ve won two Super Bowls. The Packers have received the second-most, and they’ve also won two Super Bowls. The Patriots are fourth, and they’ve won five Super Bowls. The 10 teams that have had the most compensatory picks have won most of the Super Bowls since 1994, with a total of 14 titles for those 10 teams.
At the other end of the spectrum, the teams that don’t receive a lot of compensatory picks tend to be bad teams: There are 14 teams that have received fewer than 20 compensatory picks since the system started in 1994, and those 14 teams have won a combined two Super Bowls...
This year we all figured we'd get a #3, at worst a #4, for last year based on projections by those who track this stuff.
Guess what? We got a #5 (late #5 too, almost a #6).
To get comp picks, you have to lose more qualified free agents than you sign. And even then, you have to cross your fingers that the weird formula breaks in your favor.
The Giants are not in a position where they can plan on losing more free agents than they sign (i.e., they ain't the Patriots).
I would argue that the teams who win generally are the ones that draft better. And because they draft better, a side effect is they end up getting more comp picks because they are not desperate in free agency.
due to not botching drafts for 7-8 years, they are better because their QB play is much better, and their coaching, especially NE, is waaaayyy better. The Giants had a talented team going into 2017 - Eric, you said so yourself that Summer. You can't go 11-5 with a coach like McAdoo and not have talent.
Knowing that the Eagles traded a 3rd round pick for him. They may get a 4th round compensatory pick back, but it is still not a wash.
They have historically been one of the best in managing these things.
Eric, I think that is why BBI has been most interested in this. We hate seeing everyone else take advantage. It has only been the last year or two that the Giants (I assume Kevin Abrams) have been trying to include compensatory picks into their overall free agency strategy. The Omameh release, although a failure, showed me that they “get it”. Now if Gettleman could leard to trade down at opportune times in the draft!!
I would argue that the teams who win generally are the ones that draft better. And because they draft better, a side effect is they end up getting more comp picks because they are not desperate in free agency.
I agree to a point, everyone tries to emulate the Patriots, but reality is they don't draft particularly well.
I don't think it's 1 thing. It starts with the draft, those are your cheapest, youngest assets. But coaching is critical too, and then you have free agency (incoming and outgoing), and other factors.
Comp picks may not a "symptom" of success and maybe they're not the reason either, but like I said they're a "thing".
And maybe the obsession is over the top, especially beyond the third round (because I view the top 3 rounds as really the only impactful rounds of the draft - I share the draft success chart on here pretty regularly), so there I agree, but to ignore or minimize them is probably as bad.
I would argue that the teams who win generally are the ones that draft better. And because they draft better, a side effect is they end up getting more comp picks because they are not desperate in free agency.
True because they can for example select players that were not unrestricted free agents as in those that were cut by other teams. They can be choosy.
To summarize, my view (right or wrong), is that comp picks are a secondary beneficial result of drafting well.
When you draft well, you have a good roster filled with players you can't all re-sign. Plus, you are not as desperate to sign other players. Putting these two together, you end up losing more qualified free agents than you sign.
So if you draft well, you also tend to end up getting more draft picks, which also leads to drafting better. It's a circle that fuels itself... see the Pats.
Reality is a 3rd round pick has a 25% chance of being an NFL player.
Agree to an extent, 3rd round is the last round where you should expect a contribution. I share this regularly, it's the draft success chart from a 10-year sample by a Chiefs fan. and success is simply defined as "starting more than half your games" which does not necessarily indicate "success" since someone like Ereck Flowers would qualify. So, if anything these numbers are possibly inflated a little.
Quote:
Historic Success Chart
The numbers show us the following outline for finding consistent starters:
1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)
2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)
3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)
4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)
5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)
6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)
7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)
Reality is a 3rd round pick has a 25% chance of being an NFL player.
.
Here's another for the folks, name the last compensatory pick for the Giants that actually helped this team!
I can't really recall any, that's why I don't get overly excited about it, one way or the other.
But they seem to have 12 picks every year. If they have the same batting average, they are still doing better.
I stand by my position... want more comp picks? Start drafting better.
Pretty sure their batting average is not that high for the later rounds. Probably not much different than other successful teams.
But look how the Patriots got their comp picks (predicted) for 2020.
One 3rd round pick likely comes from Trent Brown. They traded a 3rd round pick for him (and got a 4th back), used him at LT all season, won a SB, and then let him go signing the largest FA OL contract in NFL history (probably surpassing Solder).
All this because they let Solder go and got a 3rd round pick for Solder in 2019.
In the 2019 Patriots comp picks calculations were players like Dion Lewis (street free agent), Danny Amendola (FA signing), it's not all draft picks.
They move up and down the draft board, but they manage their roster based on potential comp picks and it's part of their decision making and they accumulate many of their many draft picks based on comp picks.
I agree with you drafting well helps, but I don't think the Patriots draft measurably better than anyone else, even scaled based on volume of picks.
a dynasty on the back of TB#12.
I don't even think it's fair to compare the NYG or any other team to the Pats nor do I think anyone should model themselves after them b/c it's nearly impossible to replicate.
The sheer fact that TB#12 isn't the highest paid player in the NFL makes it unreasonable. The things that they do to make sure he gets his in other capacities should really be investigated and outlawed by the NFL. The fact that TB#12 isn't getting fair market price enables the Pats to do so much more than they should be able to do in FA.
The other thing the Pats can do that no other team can tell FA players - this is what we can offer. If you want to win, you'll play for this. If not, go play for TB where they will pay you more and you can make your $$$. No other team in the NFL has that kind of leverage.
Not sure if there will ever be a team like the Pats again after TB#12 retires. When he does, I'll be BB does also. It will be interesting to see how they rebuild.
BB and TB#12 are so good, the owner can just stay out of it and collect paychecks to spend on...well...you know.
a dynasty on the back of TB#12.
I don't even think it's fair to compare the NYG or any other team to the Pats nor do I think anyone should model themselves after them b/c it's nearly impossible to replicate.
The sheer fact that TB#12 isn't the highest paid player in the NFL makes it unreasonable. The things that they do to make sure he gets his in other capacities should really be investigated and outlawed by the NFL. The fact that TB#12 isn't getting fair market price enables the Pats to do so much more than they should be able to do in FA.
The other thing the Pats can do that no other team can tell FA players - this is what we can offer. If you want to win, you'll play for this. If not, go play for TB where they will pay you more and you can make your $$$. No other team in the NFL has that kind of leverage.
Not sure if there will ever be a team like the Pats again after TB#12 retires. When he does, I'll be BB does also. It will be interesting to see how they rebuild.
BB and TB#12 are so good, the owner can just stay out of it and collect paychecks to spend on...well...you know.
.
TB#12 doesn't need a higher salary when his wife's net worth is 2X what his is....
What other athlete can say that?
So when I was hearing a few years ago around here,
that Brady is such a team player for taking less money,
it depends on how one looks at it.
I am not knocking him, just stating facts.
You weren't going to hear the Boston gasbags say something like that, LOL.
that's why I'm saying that attempting to build a team through a super star QB making significantly less than he should be for one reason or another is not a great model for repeatable success - so anyone trying to do what the Pats are doing will inevitably fail.
Just a fact.
Apparently this is a football site about the NYG Â
So talking about compensatory picks is good. If many people chime in on the subject then it appears to be talked about too much. I know I care always about the draft. Giants fans need some good news in regards to the front office. For many years this team was run poorly. People complaining about attention to the comp picks have supported this lousy front office. Now since the focus is squarely on the front office there will be reaction to everything done or said. The front office has earned the disgust held by fans. We don't want to follow a team that can't get out of its own way. Its just another drop in the bucket knowing the Giants will be less able to rebuild. I think fans want to see some positive indications that the team has a plan and is working towards being competitive. Right now we are burning the cap on very temporary and old players (WR, Safety) and spending nothing on young players who may develop and lead this team to 'wins'.
32 picks max, so it's impossible to say right now what any team will get this early in free agency plus the playing time, performance side of the equation, but the
Eagles are so far predicted to get a 3rd, and 2 4th's.
The Patriots 2 3rd's
The Ravens a 3rd and a 4th
The Steelers a 3rd
The Rams 2 4th's
So, if monitoring the comp pick potential and paying close attention to it is obsessing then I'm glad someone is paying attention to it.
That next year when the NFL announces comp picks, BBI traffic will rival the draft and the start of free agency. The fascination with late round picks and the criticality of a potential late 3rd round pick is baffling.
DG passing on trading Collins for Bucs high 3rd round pick before the trade deadline cannot be overlooked
This is flat out not true. The Bucs never offered a 3rd. We don’t even know for sure if anyone offered a fourth.
Helping the eagles?
BLAH
DG passing on trading Collins for Bucs high 3rd round pick before the trade deadline cannot be overlooked
You can all smile know he is on the Giants
You can all smile know he is on the Giants
but they'll probably/possibly recoup that 3rd round pick in 2020 because the Giants signed Tate. Still smiling?
Quote:
And the Eagles name is not called thanks to their trade for Golden Tate.
You can all smile know he is on the Giants
but they'll probably/possibly recoup that 3rd round pick in 2020 because the Giants signed Tate. Still smiling?
The Eagles aren't getting a 3rd round pick because of Golden Tate. Most likely a 5th. He has a relatively small contract for this free agency. They'll get a 3rd for Foles though.
yep. somehow comp picks are the new path to the superbowl.
Well it's not that crazy, in the sense that we all know we really are rebuilding this time around and rebuilding teams need as much draft capital as they can get. Especially if said rebuilding team does not have a QB and might need to be able to move up in a draft to get one.
Quote:
In comment 14338967 George from PA said:
Quote:
And the Eagles name is not called thanks to their trade for Golden Tate.
You can all smile know he is on the Giants
but they'll probably/possibly recoup that 3rd round pick in 2020 because the Giants signed Tate. Still smiling?
The Eagles aren't getting a 3rd round pick because of Golden Tate. Most likely a 5th. He has a relatively small contract for this free agency. They'll get a 3rd for Foles though.
It was reported they would likely get a 4th...
Comp picks have never been able traded until last year, that could be part of it.
True, but it’s because the Patriots have established a model for acquiring them. And they are the gold standard.
That is what I was thinking. Who gives a FUCK! We are not losing one of our picks.. We needed Tate and this is a good signing.
Exactly. I'm not sure why people think the Giants helped the Eagles just by being be ones to sign him. They were going to get the comp credit one way or the other.
We've seen the Pats, Eagles and other smart teams use the system to their advantage.
You aint kidding. Wait until the product is finished before you start bitching about "possible" comp picks. As some alluded to yesterday, over the cap had us getting a 3rd round and another comp pick and we ended up with a 5th. Apparently they were only wrong on three comp picks and we happened to be two of them.
It's not an exact science and for those basing every move the Giants make right now are just going to make themselves go crazy. Keep in mind, it also has to do with playing time as well. No way of knowing how this will shake out until midway through the season. Stop driving yourselves nuts.
Have you noticed the same franchises generally get them and the same franchises generally don't?
Now look at their W/L records.
Not saying it's the only thing or the most important thing, but it definitely seems like a thing.
Article linked (from a couple years ago, the gap is wider now): "Comp picks are a reward for smart teams"
At the other end of the spectrum, the teams that don’t receive a lot of compensatory picks tend to be bad teams: There are 14 teams that have received fewer than 20 compensatory picks since the system started in 1994, and those 14 teams have won a combined two Super Bowls...
Comp picks are a reward for smart teams - ( New Window )
Guess what? We got a #5 (late #5 too, almost a #6).
To get comp picks, you have to lose more qualified free agents than you sign. And even then, you have to cross your fingers that the weird formula breaks in your favor.
The Giants are not in a position where they can plan on losing more free agents than they sign (i.e., they ain't the Patriots).
Reality is a 3rd round pick has a 25% chance of being an NFL player.
You win the draft and you fill holes when you get close to being a SB contender.
The Giants have to win a few drafts in a row before they close again.
They have historically been one of the best in managing these things.
Eric, I think that is why BBI has been most interested in this. We hate seeing everyone else take advantage. It has only been the last year or two that the Giants (I assume Kevin Abrams) have been trying to include compensatory picks into their overall free agency strategy. The Omameh release, although a failure, showed me that they “get it”. Now if Gettleman could leard to trade down at opportune times in the draft!!
I agree to a point, everyone tries to emulate the Patriots, but reality is they don't draft particularly well.
I don't think it's 1 thing. It starts with the draft, those are your cheapest, youngest assets. But coaching is critical too, and then you have free agency (incoming and outgoing), and other factors.
Comp picks may not a "symptom" of success and maybe they're not the reason either, but like I said they're a "thing".
And maybe the obsession is over the top, especially beyond the third round (because I view the top 3 rounds as really the only impactful rounds of the draft - I share the draft success chart on here pretty regularly), so there I agree, but to ignore or minimize them is probably as bad.
True because they can for example select players that were not unrestricted free agents as in those that were cut by other teams. They can be choosy.
When you draft well, you have a good roster filled with players you can't all re-sign. Plus, you are not as desperate to sign other players. Putting these two together, you end up losing more qualified free agents than you sign.
So if you draft well, you also tend to end up getting more draft picks, which also leads to drafting better. It's a circle that fuels itself... see the Pats.
Reality is a 3rd round pick has a 25% chance of being an NFL player.
Agree to an extent, 3rd round is the last round where you should expect a contribution. I share this regularly, it's the draft success chart from a 10-year sample by a Chiefs fan. and success is simply defined as "starting more than half your games" which does not necessarily indicate "success" since someone like Ereck Flowers would qualify. So, if anything these numbers are possibly inflated a little.
The numbers show us the following outline for finding consistent starters:
1st Round - OL (83%) LB (70%) TE (67%) DB (64%) QB (63%) WR (58%) RB (58%) DL (58%)
2nd Round - OL (70%) LB (55%) TE (50%) WR (49%) DB (46%) QB (27%) DL (26%) RB (25%)
3rd Round - OL (40%) TE (39%) LB (34%) DL (27%) WR (25%) DB (24%) QB (17%) RB (16%)
4th Round - DL (37%) TE (33%) OL (29%) LB (16%) WR(12%) DB (11%) RB (11%) QB (8%)
5th Round - TE (32%) DB (17%) WR (16%) OL (16%) DL (13%) RB (9%) LB (4%) QB (0%)
6th Round - TE (26%) OL (16%) DL (13%) WR (9%) DB (8%) RB (6%) LB (5%) QB (0%)
7th Round - DB (11%) OL (9%) QB (6%) WR (5%) DL (3%) LB (2%) RB (0%) TE (0%)
Maybe better, but not measurably better than most teams.
I stand by my position... want more comp picks? Start drafting better.
Reality is a 3rd round pick has a 25% chance of being an NFL player.
Here's another for the folks, name the last compensatory pick for the Giants that actually helped this team!
I can't really recall any, that's why I don't get overly excited about it, one way or the other.
I stand by my position... want more comp picks? Start drafting better.
Pretty sure their batting average is not that high for the later rounds. Probably not much different than other successful teams.
But look how the Patriots got their comp picks (predicted) for 2020.
One 3rd round pick likely comes from Trent Brown. They traded a 3rd round pick for him (and got a 4th back), used him at LT all season, won a SB, and then let him go signing the largest FA OL contract in NFL history (probably surpassing Solder).
All this because they let Solder go and got a 3rd round pick for Solder in 2019.
In the 2019 Patriots comp picks calculations were players like Dion Lewis (street free agent), Danny Amendola (FA signing), it's not all draft picks.
They move up and down the draft board, but they manage their roster based on potential comp picks and it's part of their decision making and they accumulate many of their many draft picks based on comp picks.
I agree with you drafting well helps, but I don't think the Patriots draft measurably better than anyone else, even scaled based on volume of picks.
I don't even think it's fair to compare the NYG or any other team to the Pats nor do I think anyone should model themselves after them b/c it's nearly impossible to replicate.
The sheer fact that TB#12 isn't the highest paid player in the NFL makes it unreasonable. The things that they do to make sure he gets his in other capacities should really be investigated and outlawed by the NFL. The fact that TB#12 isn't getting fair market price enables the Pats to do so much more than they should be able to do in FA.
The other thing the Pats can do that no other team can tell FA players - this is what we can offer. If you want to win, you'll play for this. If not, go play for TB where they will pay you more and you can make your $$$. No other team in the NFL has that kind of leverage.
Not sure if there will ever be a team like the Pats again after TB#12 retires. When he does, I'll be BB does also. It will be interesting to see how they rebuild.
BB and TB#12 are so good, the owner can just stay out of it and collect paychecks to spend on...well...you know.
I don't even think it's fair to compare the NYG or any other team to the Pats nor do I think anyone should model themselves after them b/c it's nearly impossible to replicate.
The sheer fact that TB#12 isn't the highest paid player in the NFL makes it unreasonable. The things that they do to make sure he gets his in other capacities should really be investigated and outlawed by the NFL. The fact that TB#12 isn't getting fair market price enables the Pats to do so much more than they should be able to do in FA.
The other thing the Pats can do that no other team can tell FA players - this is what we can offer. If you want to win, you'll play for this. If not, go play for TB where they will pay you more and you can make your $$$. No other team in the NFL has that kind of leverage.
Not sure if there will ever be a team like the Pats again after TB#12 retires. When he does, I'll be BB does also. It will be interesting to see how they rebuild.
BB and TB#12 are so good, the owner can just stay out of it and collect paychecks to spend on...well...you know.
TB#12 doesn't need a higher salary when his wife's net worth is 2X what his is....
What other athlete can say that?
So when I was hearing a few years ago around here,
that Brady is such a team player for taking less money,
it depends on how one looks at it.
I am not knocking him, just stating facts.
You weren't going to hear the Boston gasbags say something like that, LOL.
Just a fact.
That’s what happens when the team has been a dud to watch with little football pleasure or winning.
Thank god!
With L. Collins as our only signing & letting Dix, Harris, etc. Go.
We are in line for a 4th, 5th & 6th rd pick in compensation so far.
That's why we are only targeting released players in FA or thru trade. As you don't lose your compensational value.
So don't be surprised if we sign Eric Berry or Justin Houston. Or some other player that was cut.
Or getting a player by trade. But not losing a draft pick in that process.
Like how we got Case Keenum for example. Traded a 2020 6th for Keenum & a 2020 7th.
You may drop a rd or more, but not lose the pick outright.
I'm expecting us to make more moves like this, before the draft.
The Patriot way
Eagles are so far predicted to get a 3rd, and 2 4th's.
The Patriots 2 3rd's
The Ravens a 3rd and a 4th
The Steelers a 3rd
The Rams 2 4th's
So, if monitoring the comp pick potential and paying close attention to it is obsessing then I'm glad someone is paying attention to it.
they should be.
Quote:
That next year when the NFL announces comp picks, BBI traffic will rival the draft and the start of free agency. The fascination with late round picks and the criticality of a potential late 3rd round pick is baffling.
DG passing on trading Collins for Bucs high 3rd round pick before the trade deadline cannot be overlooked
This is flat out not true. The Bucs never offered a 3rd. We don’t even know for sure if anyone offered a fourth.
Lol. Never mind this. Let BBI go nuts over something so insignificant it’s not even noteworthy in the grand scheme of things.