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My case for trading up for a QB in 2020

Jolly Blue Giant : 3/15/2019 9:35 am
Iíve been wanting the Giants to pick up draft picks for next year in order to trade up for a QB in 2020. I was a little disappointed that we didnít get a #1 from the browns for 2020 because I figured that would put us in a great position for a trade up next year. However, when I thought about it, does it really matter if the picks come this year or next year? We have 12 picks in the draft this year. That is the equivalent to 6 picks this year and 6 next year. We could essentially trade all of our picks next year to move up to #1 (a la Mike Ditka) and still go into 2020 without losing much from a personal standpoint. To be clear, Iím not advocating trading the entire draft next year, but thatís how much draft capital we have right now. So my thought is, letís bolster both lines and find some young talent around the field, and then go all out for a QB next year. This is all assuming we arenít in love with a QB this year. If thatís the case, forget everything I just wrote.
Iíll hang up  
Jolly Blue Giant : 3/15/2019 9:35 am : link
And listen to your answer....
Giants will stink this year  
Steve in ATL : 3/15/2019 9:39 am : link
Load up on defense and OL this year. They ought to be in the position to take a good QB next year or be close enough to trade up.
The only thing that matters  
madeinstars : 3/15/2019 9:40 am : link
Is how they grade Haskins or Murray this year. If they believe in either of them and don't do everything in their power to go get them, that's basically malpractice.
I'm ok with Jones  
PatersonPlank : 3/15/2019 9:42 am : link
I've come to the opinion that all these guys (Lock, Haskins, Jones, the midget, etc.) are pretty close, and its a crap shoot who will be good and who will be the next Tim Couch.
I am not sure if we will be lousy this year  
George from PA : 3/15/2019 9:45 am : link
schedule looks so much easier....

we are currently depleated but thid draft should bolster our roster.

And an addition of a solid RT should finally resolve our Achilles heel.
I am all in on a 2020 QB  
Chip : 3/15/2019 9:54 am : link
Tua Herbert and Fromm seem to be a notch better than Murray and Haskins. You can always throw in 2021 picks to move up like we did for Eli.
I donít want to wait for 2020 if they like one of this yearís guys.  
Ivan15 : 3/15/2019 10:00 am : link
When you start looking at QBs one year ahead, the warts start to show around combine time.
I never understand this. We can't predict this year let alone next  
Blue21 : 3/15/2019 10:03 am : link
year. We don't know what position in the draft we will be let alone if we can find a draft partner that will accomodate us. We also probably will have competition to get into the spot necessary. We're also assuming non of the QB's get hurt and the ones of interest will have good years. That's a lot to gamble on. If there is one this year they have the ability to get (Haskins, Murray or Lock for that matter)they need to get him in his valued spot.Although possible does anyone plan on being in this spot or better next year or worse depending how you look at it?
RE: I am not sure if we will be lousy this year  
GFAN52 : 3/15/2019 10:06 am : link
In comment 14339315 George from PA said:
Quote:
schedule looks so much easier....

we are currently depleated but thid draft should bolster our roster.

And an addition of a solid RT should finally resolve our Achilles heel.


This. What happens if the Giants finish 8-8 or barely make the playoffs at 9-7? The move up then would be extremely costly, and that's even assuming the teams at the top don't want those QBs for themselves and won't consider trading the picks.
Who said the Giants will have to trade up?  
Boy Cord : 3/15/2019 10:07 am : link
They could earn a coveted draft position.
Dolphins, Bengals, Bucs  
Lambuth_Special : 3/15/2019 10:07 am : link
Are all teams that could potentially be worse than the Giants AND need a QB by the end of the 2019 season.

It's way risky.
Going from a mid teens draft pick  
AnnapolisMike : 3/15/2019 10:08 am : link
to 1-3 next year would be extraordinarily expensive if the Giants end up having a 7-8 win season. You can't aways wait for the perfect guy. You need to get the best guy available whom you think can play the position.
Next year's crop looks better  
Matt in SGS : 3/15/2019 10:11 am : link
but the only guy the scouts really agree on that is in college is Trevor Lawrence, who some long time scouts are saying is the best QB prospect since John Elway (which will perk Ernie Accorsi up). But he's 2 years away.

The Giants have lined up the picks this year and I can't see them making 12 selections. They will trade some to move up. From what we can gather, the only QB they might like at 6 is Murray, but he'll be gone by 4 at the latest. So your choices are trade up for Murray in the top 3, trade up from 17 to land a Lock/Haskins/Jones, or trade for Rosen.

I think that's it, that's the game plan. I don't see them waiting until 2020. Gettleman couldn't fall in love with a QB at #2 last year and Saquon on the board. But it takes much less convincing after you get past pick #10.

Honestly, I think the Giants will use #6 on a top defensive talent, and see how the rest of the QBs drop before 17. If one is in striking distance between 10-17, the Giants will use their extra picks to trade up for one of them. If they get Haskins or Lock at 13/14 and trade up, I'm ok with that. I really don't want Jones at all. Period.

As we said, the worst move for the Giants is to trade up from 6 to take a Lock or Haskins, or god forbid Jones. To me, that's a remote thrower. Just get Rosen when presented with that.
RE: I am all in on a 2020 QB  
Eman11 : 3/15/2019 10:13 am : link
In comment 14339346 Chip said:
Quote:
Tua Herbert and Fromm seem to be a notch better than Murray and Haskins. You can always throw in 2021 picks to move up like we did for Eli.


That's my feeling as well.

With all the draft picks this year plus next year's cap space we should be able to fill most of if not all the biggest holes on the team, and be able to absorb spending what we have to of next year's picks to get one of those three.

If it takes a 2021 #1 like we did with Eli then I'm good with that too because I think those three are more than just a notch better than this year's QB crop.
RE: Going from a mid teens draft pick  
ryanmkeane : 3/15/2019 10:14 am : link
In comment 14339409 AnnapolisMike said:
Quote:
to 1-3 next year would be extraordinarily expensive if the Giants end up having a 7-8 win season. You can't aways wait for the perfect guy. You need to get the best guy available whom you think can play the position.

It may be expensive, but if you have a shitload of cap space and draft well for the previous couple seasons, it really doesn't hurt that much.

The Eagles basically gave up their 1st, 3rd, and 4th that year, plus a 1st the following year. If Giants LOVE their guy next year...you're telling me they don't make that trade? They'd do it in a heartbeat.
RE: RE: I am all in on a 2020 QB  
GFAN52 : 3/15/2019 10:15 am : link
In comment 14339431 Eman11 said:
Quote:
In comment 14339346 Chip said:


Quote:


Tua Herbert and Fromm seem to be a notch better than Murray and Haskins. You can always throw in 2021 picks to move up like we did for Eli.



That's my feeling as well.

With all the draft picks this year plus next year's cap space we should be able to fill most of if not all the biggest holes on the team, and be able to absorb spending what we have to of next year's picks to get one of those three.

If it takes a 2021 #1 like we did with Eli then I'm good with that too because I think those three are more than just a notch better than this year's QB crop.


So you would have Eli playing in 2022 as a mentor on the "KC model"? No thanks.
And on another note we're selecting from the 6th spot this  
Blue21 : 3/15/2019 10:16 am : link
year. We don't know if we're even able to get Murray or Haskins before we pick or in a trade and many on here don't think they are worthy of a 6. They may both go top 5. So wait until next year because next years crop is better?
...  
ryanmkeane : 3/15/2019 10:17 am : link
The Rams traded their 15th overall,their 2 second rounders, and a third, plus a 1st the following year to move all the way up to #1.

Again, Giants would do that in a milisecond if they love their guy and think he's their franchise for the next 10 years or more.
RE: RE: Going from a mid teens draft pick  
AnnapolisMike : 3/15/2019 10:17 am : link
In comment 14339438 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 14339409 AnnapolisMike said:


Quote:


to 1-3 next year would be extraordinarily expensive if the Giants end up having a 7-8 win season. You can't aways wait for the perfect guy. You need to get the best guy available whom you think can play the position.


It may be expensive, but if you have a shitload of cap space and draft well for the previous couple seasons, it really doesn't hurt that much.

The Eagles basically gave up their 1st, 3rd, and 4th that year, plus a 1st the following year. If Giants LOVE their guy next year...you're telling me they don't make that trade? They'd do it in a heartbeat.


There will be alot of teams in a position of need next year. There is a huge risk in waiting.
Annapolis  
ryanmkeane : 3/15/2019 10:21 am : link
as with every year, there are always 3-5 teams that could probably "need" a new QB. The thing is, not all of these teams always think the way the fans or media does.

Look at the Redskins. Everyone was saying they would trade up for a QB this year, or trade for Rosen, etc. They haven't (yet) but they traded for Keenum!

Look at Denver. Everyone thought they would trade up. Nope. They signed Flacco.
RE: RE: RE: I am all in on a 2020 QB  
Eman11 : 3/15/2019 10:26 am : link
In comment 14339445 GFAN52 said:
Quote:
In comment 14339431 Eman11 said:


Quote:


In comment 14339346 Chip said:


Quote:


Tua Herbert and Fromm seem to be a notch better than Murray and Haskins. You can always throw in 2021 picks to move up like we did for Eli.



That's my feeling as well.

With all the draft picks this year plus next year's cap space we should be able to fill most of if not all the biggest holes on the team, and be able to absorb spending what we have to of next year's picks to get one of those three.

If it takes a 2021 #1 like we did with Eli then I'm good with that too because I think those three are more than just a notch better than this year's QB crop.



So you would have Eli playing in 2022 as a mentor on the "KC model"? No thanks.


How did you get that from my post? All I'm advocating for is drafting the QB next year and using what picks you have to to do that, including a 2021 #1 if need be.

And that is likely because  
AnnapolisMike : 3/15/2019 10:34 am : link
they look at the available options and how they fit their team and decide that is the best way to go based on cost/benefit.

The problem in waiting are as follows

1. You can't get the guy you really want because it becomes too expensive or you can't arrange the trade.
2. Something happens to affect your desire to draft him. Injury or just a shitty year.
3. You push out by at least one year, if not more your window to compete.

I get people like the guys next year more. There are ALWAYS going to be guys next year. If you like one of the guys now...you should get him. Can that guy be your QB and get the job done in the system you want to implement. Eli and Phil were no were near the best QB's at their positions during the time they were the QB of the Giants. But they fit the system and were good enough.
Annapolis  
ryanmkeane : 3/15/2019 10:36 am : link
agree...but i think the issue is, the giants really don't love any of the guys this year. if they did love one of them, he'd be the pick, no question.
RE: The only thing that matters  
Johnny5 : 3/15/2019 10:38 am : link
In comment 14339297 madeinstars said:
Quote:
Is how they grade Haskins or Murray this year. If they believe in either of them and don't do everything in their power to go get them, that's basically malpractice.

Agree with this. I would have to guess based on what DG said that if they do really value one of these guys that highly, they WILL go after them hard. IMO, I see that with Murray, I just don't see that with Haskins. And I am not saying Haskins won't be a good NFL QB. I just think there are too many questions there.
RE: I am all in on a 2020 QB  
UberAlias : 3/15/2019 11:32 am : link
In comment 14339346 Chip said:
Quote:
Tua Herbert and Fromm seem to be a notch better than Murray and Haskins. You can always throw in 2021 picks to move up like we did for Eli.
That it? You can always just throw in a pick and can have any player you want?
RE: RE: I am all in on a 2020 QB  
AcesUp : 3/15/2019 11:39 am : link
In comment 14339724 UberAlias said:
Quote:
In comment 14339346 Chip said:


Quote:


Tua Herbert and Fromm seem to be a notch better than Murray and Haskins. You can always throw in 2021 picks to move up like we did for Eli.

That it? You can always just throw in a pick and can have any player you want?


Yup. The Giants and BBI are the only ones that know that these guys are good. We're going to win now because we're close, make the playoffs, pick in the 20s and then just offer up a future 1 to get any player we want in the draft. Easy Peezy.
I Want Rosen or Murray THIS YEAR  
Jim in Tampa : 3/15/2019 11:43 am : link
Last year we were told we had to wait until "next year" for a QB. Well guess what? Next year is here! (It's technically still "this year" but I think you get my point.)

If we kick the QB can down the road another year, after having the 2nd and 6th overall picks in two drafts, we simply may not be in a position to trade up for the QB we want.

As others have pointed out, an 8-8 or 7-9 record puts you in the middle of the pack at 15 or 16. It's not impossible to trade up from that spot, but it makes it far less likely.

And what if the team that has that top pick really needs a QB and they absolutely love Fromm or one of the other QBs? They're not trading that pick no matter what you offer. So even if the Giants only won 4 or 5 games, they still might not be able to get to the top of the draft.

Yes I know...KC traded up for Mahomes, Rams traded up for Goff and the Eagles did the same for Wentz. But you need a willing partner. So let's not pretend that this is something that can ALWAYS be done.

Nobody traded up for Luck, Peyton Manning, Elway, Bradshaw, Aikman, Cam Newton, Carson Palmer, Plunkett, Bledsoe, Stafford, Vick, Bradford and other QBs that went #1 overall. Why? Because the teams that had the top pick needed a QB and they weren't about to trade out of that spot.

Putting it another way. If the Giants don't draft a QB this year and they finished with the worst record giving them the top pick AND Fromm, Tua or Herbert ended up being the top rated QB by a wide margin... projected to be a franchise QB. In that scenario, do you honestly think the Giants would ever consider trading out of that spot? And how hard would you laugh if you read on another team's message board that all they had to do was make a trade with the Giants to get that QB?

Let's not wait another year. Giants need to get their franchise QB THIS YEAR and not gamble that they'll be in position to draft one in 2020.
There is no such thing as planning to get a QB in 2020  
BillT : 3/15/2019 12:20 pm : link
That's not a plan that's a pipe dream. There are so many variables that mitigate against that being a realistic plan it would be hard to list them all. And what I mean by that is not only are the obvious impediments there (having a bad enough record, teams with worse records wanting those players, teams with the top choices not wanting to trade for any amount b/c they want those QBs, etc.) There are things that could blow that up that you can't even think of but could make a "plan" like "waiting to 2020" look ridiculous.
There is clearly no specific planning...  
Johnny5 : 3/15/2019 12:49 pm : link
... for a QB in the draft in 2020. But that doesn't mean you reach in 2019 unless you really like who's available. If the Giants are not sold on any of these guys, move on.
i would not trade our 2021 1st round pick under any circumstances  
markky : 3/15/2019 1:02 pm : link
what if we stink in 2020 and that's the pick that could have had Lawrence?

no way
LOL!  
mdthedream : 3/15/2019 1:05 pm : link
Why would we want the 1st round pick next from Cleveland instead of the 17th pick this year? Cleveland could be picking 24th next year with that roster. Hell we can trade this years 17th for a lot more than that.
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