I want to preface my remarks that I never called for the Giants to trade Odell. And when I tuned into BBI on the night he got traded, my first response was "Holy (blank)... they traded him!"
But if there was one common refrain I saw from the past five years or so on BBI it was, "I hate this team!"
Fancy that... fans tend to dislike their team when it is not winning. But there seemed to be something deeper than that. BBI was around during other dark times during the 1990s and 2000s. Other than 2016, the team seemed largely dysfunctional. We drafted guys from winning collegiate programs who seemed to quickly become too comfortable with losing. It got to the point where something happened that I never thought I'd see as a Giants fan: Giants fans stopped watching. They stopped going to the games. They didn't watch on TV. Other than the last game or two of a losing season, I had never seen that before. And I can't imagine how empty the seats would have been had Saquon Barkley not been on this team last year despite the fact that these seats were already paid for!
"I hate this team!"
Some folks have mocked posters like Greg and bw who smelled the rot. I don't know if the Giants are turning a corner or not. I don't know if the rot has stopped (those who want Eli out of here yesterday obviously think it hasn't). But something has been "off" on this team for quite some time. Rightly or wrongly, Beckham got caught up in that. He may have contributed to the rot, or been a victim of it... everyone will have a different opinion.
But it is quite clear that Gettleman has smelled the rot. He's purging ALMOST EVERY player from this roster acquired by the previous regime. It's obvious now. Parcells did this after the 1983 season when there wasn't any free agency. He dumped half the team. Gettleman will have almost completely dumped the entire team in two years. Just wait until we compare the September 2019 roster with the September 2017 roster. Hardly anyone will be left.
Why is Odell gone? Right or wrong, Gettleman hated the old team too.
There were also random guys who popped out of nowhere to have great seasons like Wooten, Way, Bratzke.
If jtgiants is to be believed, even more will surface.
This was not going to get fixed in one shot - so, I was baffled by the posters who wanted him fired immediately after the first season.
There are steps required to get from point A to point B - now we are seeing how the pieces may start to fall into place.
It's starting to sound to me like they plan on addressing QB sooner than later. That's what I needed to hear. I like everything else going on right now for the most part.
Loved Beckham the player - not upset at all with the return and am fine with turning the page.
I feel kind of excited and optimistic for a much different looking Giants team going forward.
Barkley is going to be the centerpiece of the offense. The line should continue to improve and settle, young defensive talent should start funneling in via the draft/trades (Peppers)
All of this shit about "they have no plan!!!!"
I don't see that at all - it looks to me like they absolutely have a plan.
But that didn't stop swaths of posters for saying Gettleman was wrecking the franchise and acting like petulant children over every little thing...
This might not even work out! I get it... but can we stop going absolutely bat shit over every single thing that happens? In some instances, you have to thin out a roster spot before you can replenish it with the type of players and depth you want.
I'm willing to give this time to develop and am looking forward to what's coming next.
Feels like there's been a black cloud over the organization for a couple of years, hoping that's going to lift this year.
I started a thread just like this right after yours but deleted it once I saw this one. I was feeling the same way.
It might be 1988 in Gettlemans mind, and he might build us a re-dux of a Giants late 1980s team, but...
The team we had with OBJ was a perennial 5 win team - something had to change
Eli
Engram
Shepard
Ellison
Wheeler - for now
Defense
Jenkins - somewhat stunned he's survived the purge
Wynn
Goodson
Moss
Specials
Rosas
DeOssie
Did I miss anyone?
I have seen the Giants cut players and was unhappy about it only to see that player do nothing with the next team.
I just follow my team and always watch when I can.
Gettlemen wants adults, professionals, players that hate to lose.
So far, the 4 new additions seems to be in line with that model.
We will see more of that and that is why I think Haskins, who is a high character kid will be a Giant. Also Christian Wilkins is a DG prototype.
Culture matters.
Eli
Engram
Shepard
Ellison
Wheeler - for now
Defense
Jenkins - somewhat stunned he's survived the purge
Wynn
Goodson
Moss
Specials
Rosas
DeOssie
Did I miss anyone?
Yeah, that the Jackrabbit is still here is astonishing. Maybe they're just biding their time. Have to believe Shep is a goner now.
Ownership was making that call as well as the one to get rid of him, which, thankfully they did.
Without creating a new one (like one with QB hell)
Ownership was making that call as well as the one to get rid of him, which, thankfully they did.
Gettleman had to sign off too, and want it Shurmur that asked for it to happen?
Brutal mistake. As was drafting Barkley, frankly.
But this offseason has been much better. Hopefully it keeps up.
Eli
Engram
Shepard
Ellison
Wheeler - for now
Defense
Jenkins - somewhat stunned he's survived the purge
Wynn
Goodson
Moss
Specials
Rosas
DeOssie
Did I miss anyone?
Missed Wayne Gallman
From all indications, Gettleman wanted him gone. It was Tisch and Shurmur who threw Odell a lifeline. And due to the timing and circumstances, he had to sign him to that big deal, or else Odell doesn't even show. It was a point in time that the Giants wanted to do right by their new head coach and not hamstring him. It was a big old shitburger and they all held hands and took a bite and hoped it worked out. It didn't, so rather than wait any longer, they pulled the trigger. Basically, when you have a bad team, and you are recovering from years of bad decisions, they made a call and, to their credit, when they saw it wasn't working, ripped the bandaid off. The old Jerry Reese Giants would have held on to Odell and the shitshow would have continued and he'd have been traded for an Antonio Brown package.
What is questionable was the timing. Moving on may be the plan now, but it wasn't the plan when they signed him to a massive deal, and Odell is the exact same guy today he was then. Like the decision to move on from Collins after passing on opportunity to get something in return, it's the fact of their wavering their decision making that concerns me.
I think the plan changed. I think Shurmur stuck his neck out for Beckham and it blew up in his face. Now they've done the best they can to make it right for everyone.
Gettlemen wants adults, professionals, players that hate to lose.
So far, the 4 new additions seems to be in line with that model.
We will see more of that and that is why I think Haskins, who is a high character kid will be a Giant. Also Christian Wilkins is a DG prototype.
Culture matters.
Another good post. Hope you're right. I'm willing to take the chance on Haskins.
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Gettleman made Beckham the highest paid receiver in the NFL. If this was the plan, it was poorly executed and is only now being onto the right course.
I think the plan changed. I think Shurmur stuck his neck out for Beckham and it blew up in his face. Now they've done the best they can to make it right for everyone.
What is questionable was the timing. Moving on may be the plan now, but it wasn't the plan when they signed him to a massive deal, and Odell is the exact same guy today he was then. Like the decision to move on from Collins after passing on opportunity to get something in return, it's the fact of their wavering their decision making that concerns me.
I think they did intend on Beckham being part of the team going forward - but once they ran into more issues, they decided it wasn't going to work out. And the longer they waited to deal with this, the more leverage we'd likely lose - and the lesser return we'd wind up settling for.
It seems like they kind of felt like it just had to be done now before it got worse.
I'm disappointed in him if it's true he told the coach to go fuck himself, etc. Most of the optical shit doesn't bug me, but I don't want that going on here. No one is bigger than the team.
OBJ has done plenty of antics in his career with Giants but did he ever completely rebel against the HC and bench himself and refuse to play a game?
No the ONLY player to ever do that on the Giants is Eli Manning !!
there are two rules for players on Giants
Eli Manning rules
and Everyone else rules
if you don't think other players don't see this .. then you are delusional
Sorry but as long as Eli is still on the Roster the rot is still with Giants
I love the New York Giants and as of today I have no reason to hate this team but I wasnt very proud of it from them moment OBJ went after Norman. That can change, thats the hope.
However, everyone makes mistakes, and I believe Gettleman has made some. But they have not been team-crushing mistakes, like drafting Ereck Flowers. So I'm relieved about that. What do I mean by mistakes? Well, an easy one to identify is the Stewart contract. It was a mistake. But it didn't crush the team.
I'll comment on what I think is a current Gettleman mistake.
I think they are making a mistake in regards to Halapio. He's a JAG coming off a broken leg. It appears they like him and it seems he is penciled in as the starting C. But I don't think this is a team-crushing mistake. He's a big dude, a hard worker, not an attitude issue at all. So he's probably not going to be very good. But he doesn't have a crushing contract, he's not on a scholarship, and his being on the team does not prevent the team from drafting his future replacement.
So, I don't like what the Giants are doing at C (thus far). But the damage from this is nowhere near the level of damage the previous regime would cause with really poor personnel decisions.
The previous regime made team-crushing mistakes. Those days seem to be over. I'm happy about that.
This team will play hard. The talent isn't there yet (WR is still really bad, in my view). But they have some tough dudes now. And there won't be any dog peeing nonsense in the end zone, thank God. What an embarrassment!
Well sure, but would you have preferred he let him walk for nothing? We get it, you wanted him traded sooner. But you can’t blame Gettleman for that, he wasn’t here then.
Poor drafting and McAshit as HC helped with the stink.
It will take time to try and freshen the air. Need to hit on a few drafts and FA signings. And of course, the biggest item is the next QB.
Again, it is a different world now than in the early 90s.
Ticket/Food/Drink prices are insane, traffic sucks, and folks have Red Zone with massive HD TVs, Fantasy football, etc. No reason to waste time at the stadium to watch losers.
Attendance is down almost everywhere, so it is not a Giants thing. I think people like reading too much into things.
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Gettleman made Beckham the highest paid receiver in the NFL. If this was the plan, it was poorly executed and is only now being onto the right course.
Well sure, but would you have preferred he let him walk for nothing? We get it, you wanted him traded sooner. But you can’t blame Gettleman for that, he wasn’t here then.
He should have dealt him last offseason.
+1
If what's happening with the team is positive, I'll be positive. If it's negative, I'll be negative.
I think they were fooled by his offseason - he kind of played them, honestly. I kind of bought into it, too - stupidly.
There's part of Odell that is just Odell and I think there was a certain bit of it that they were willing to deal with... the dancing, some of the sideline antics, the flamboyant persona, etc... a lot of WR's have done stuff like that. But, reading the tea leaves, it just sounds like the relationship between he and management AND the coach were all rapidly deteriorating and it also sounds like there's some truth to his being MIA over the last 4 games was more elective than not.
I want to be careful about kicking the guy out the door because I still think he's a great player - and I don't like just turning on a guy 180-style the second he puts a new uniform on.
But at the end of the day.. we were still losing a lot of games, and I think I'm just refreshed with the prospect of a new direction and a different vision.
I just want to see the Giants win football games again. I'm married to being a Giants fan - not a fan of a player. So, if this is where we're at.... so be it!
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In comment 14339452 Go Terps said:
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Gettleman made Beckham the highest paid receiver in the NFL. If this was the plan, it was poorly executed and is only now being onto the right course.
I think the plan changed. I think Shurmur stuck his neck out for Beckham and it blew up in his face. Now they've done the best they can to make it right for everyone.
Yes, the plan did change. Just like it changed with Collins. That is the concern.
No, its not the same thing.
In fact, Collins has said himself that he didn't feel like they were going to keep him last year. He just kept going about his business knowing that he probably wasn't going to be a part of the teams long term plans.
Why they didn't pull the trigger on a trade for him, who knows. Maybe ownership stepped in again and interfered.
I've also heard conflicting reports that they were never offered a third, and that it was a 4th.