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What Year Does DG Commit To A True Rebuild?

Giants38 : 3/15/2019 2:27 pm
I say 2020. I think he brings back Eli next year, too, convincing us that every QB in the 2020 class is garbage, and people here eat it up like they do this year believing that this team is going to be good. Good news is with Eli back in the fold, we will be in the hunt for Trevor Lawrence in the 2021 Draft.

Gear up boys, there is going to be a whole lotta losing in the next couple years.
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They are rebuilding now.  
Brown Recluse : 3/15/2019 2:28 pm : link
You're kind of slow though, as I've seen from other threads - so I get why this doesn't make sense to you.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 3/15/2019 2:29 pm : link
If you think jtgiants has good contacts, they insist they are not rebuilding.
The exact year is when  
Diver_Down : 3/15/2019 2:29 pm : link
the Sammy Sycophants quit crying.
What does that even mean?  
George from PA : 3/15/2019 2:31 pm : link
Rebuilding?

Reloading?

Clearing cap?

We might suck but we are not tanking mode?
The day he became GM  
JohnB : 3/15/2019 2:32 pm : link
He just didn't tell you.

Look at all the moves he made. He is totaling rebuilding the team. Look at how few players who are left over from the Reese era. He is truly cleaning house.


Or haven't you noticed?
RE: What does that even mean?  
Brown Recluse : 3/15/2019 2:34 pm : link
In comment 14340333 George from PA said:
Quote:
Rebuilding?

Reloading?

Clearing cap?

We might suck but we are not tanking mode?


Thats the issue. Some fans automatically think a *rebuild* means the team is effectively tanking. Thats not the case.

Whatever you want to call it, the Giants are *rebuilding* this team. They are shipping out players (a lot of players) that don't fit what they want to do and bringing in new ones. Adding draft capital. Adding cap space.
Rebuilding the culture. Its a REBUILD. That doesn't mean they are tanking. You can rebuild and also remain competitive.
is getting a QB the only thing that qualifies as a 'true' rebuild?  
giants#1 : 3/15/2019 2:34 pm : link
Because otherwise:

1. Peppers is only 23
2. The CBs are young (Beal - 22, Haley - 23, youth behind them)
3. Golden is clearly a stopgap, but he's younger than Vernon
4. Hill, Tomlinson, Carter, McIntosh are all young
5. Even with Tate, they're young at the skill positions with Barkley, Engram, Shepard, Coleman, etc
6. Hernandez is a young building block
7. Rosas and Dixon are both young

And most importantly, we have TWELVE draft picks. Even assuming only 8 draft picks make the final roster (conservative estimate), they'll probably have ~20 players <25 years old (I believe Golden is the only one above older than 25).
If you look at every NFL roster  
bradshaw44 : 3/15/2019 2:36 pm : link
They are always rebuilding. The team never remains the same year over year. Even when a team has a strong core unit somewhere it doesn't last much more then 4 seasons. See Seattle Seahawks of 2013-2017. Every team is constantly in flux.

DG is making changes and adding pieces now that would constitute rebuilding. Being that we cut most players before the 2018 season started and even more this week, you are living in the middle of the rebuild.
Detach from your emotions  
JonC : 3/15/2019 2:37 pm : link
and stop focusing on what you're being told via the media.

They've been tearing it down since DG took over, look at the roster.

It will take two years or more to strip it, and at least as long to restock it. While it's in progress, they're fielding the best team they can year to year and, of course, they're trying to win.

Enjoy the process, cease the insufferable whining.
RE: ...  
giants#1 : 3/15/2019 2:37 pm : link
In comment 14340318 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
If you think jtgiants has good contacts, they insist they are not rebuilding.


Semantics. They have something like 12-13 players left from BG and most of the guys they've brought in the last 2 years were <=27. Not to mention 12 picks coming up.

Turning over 80% of the roster in 2 years is a "rebuild".
RE: ...  
Giants38 : 3/15/2019 2:37 pm : link
In comment 14340318 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
If you think jtgiants has good contacts, they insist they are not rebuilding.


That’s my point. They insist they are not rebuilding this year. At what point does that change? Eventually they are going to have to see that this win now stuff won’t work.

So my question is when - if ever - will DAG embrace a true rebuild? Or will they need to can him before that happens?
That said  
JonC : 3/15/2019 2:38 pm : link
no one knows if they're rebuilding the "right way" or not, time will tell. The decision making, looked at separately from the gist of my prior post, remains to be seen.
Dear god  
jvm52106 : 3/15/2019 2:39 pm : link
I have only been aware of Giants38 posts today adn already your act is getting old. They are retooling, rebuilding whatever you want to call it already. The fact that OBJ is gone for picks adn a player says that. The fact that in the last year Harrison, Apple, Flowers, Hart, Collins, JPP, Pugh, Richburg etc are all gone says they are rebuilding/retooling.

Your act is a one card hand, Eli is the reason they are not rebuilding. Somebody has to play QB this year regardless. A Young QB needs a vet to show the way if you want to follow KC's way from last two seasons (draft a guy and sit behind vet). The Giants didn't draft a QB last year because Barkley was considered that good. He won ROY so I guess he is fucking good..

We have 12 picks in the draft and FA is still in session... Give it time first but, just because you rebuild doesn't mean you can't try and win too!
RE: What does that even mean?  
bLiTz 2k : 3/15/2019 2:39 pm : link
In comment 14340333 George from PA said:
Quote:
Rebuilding?

Reloading?

Clearing cap?

We might suck but we are not tanking mode?


Seriously...

To these people the only options for a team in sports is to full on tank or go for a championship push. there is no in between. these threads and “hot takes” are getting absolutely ridiculous.
do you want an official statement or something?  
UConn4523 : 3/15/2019 2:40 pm : link
form your own opinion. DG just made a ton of moves that signal out with the old, in with the new. We've been rebuilding. We have a ton of cap flexibility in 2020+, he's fortifying the lines.
RE: Detach from your emotions  
Thegratefulhead : 3/15/2019 2:43 pm : link
In comment 14340358 JonC said:
Quote:
and stop focusing on what you're being told via the media.

They've been tearing it down since DG took over, look at the roster.

It will take two years or more to strip it, and at least as long to restock it. While it's in progress, they're fielding the best team they can year to year and, of course, they're trying to win.

Enjoy the process, cease the insufferable whining.
Believe it or not, the OBJ trade is what changed my mind about the plan. My first football memory is the fumble. My grandfather was a Semi Pro football player that loved the Giants, loved sports, he played for nothing. I watched every game with him until he died. He would be proud of the Giants today. So am I. Thank you for your contributions here. Still think Eli is much closer to toast than not but I no longer care. Show me more growth this year and players worth rooting for and I am good.
With the knuckleheads gone  
JonC : 3/15/2019 2:49 pm : link
I believe we'll have a team we want to root for again, and they'll play the game the right way. It all feeds into playing well as units, limiting the mental and physical errors, and playing clean, crisp football.
The rebuild is about the QB-  
Sean : 3/15/2019 2:52 pm : link
once there is clarity at the QB position, it starts.
My god  
djm : 3/15/2019 2:52 pm : link
...
RE: The rebuild is about the QB-  
giants#1 : 3/15/2019 2:56 pm : link
In comment 14340403 Sean said:
Quote:
once there is clarity at the QB position, it starts.


Maybe in your mind, but you can get the team foundation in place and add the QB last too. Rams just did this. Jags are hoping too. KC did this. Etc
Heck  
giants#1 : 3/15/2019 2:57 pm : link
the Eagles won a SB with Wentz basically being the last piece added.
making nate soldier  
hitdog42 : 3/15/2019 2:58 pm : link
the highest paid OL in league last year... doesn't constitute rebuilding since they got here...
they added parts to make a run last year--- they added parts that would help Eli... this year they are turning things over a bit more but with similar thoughts in mind... to try to still make a run... to try to help Eli.

the optimist in me says they will nail 3-4 draft picks again, and with the abundance of cap space next year, be able to rebuild the roster... and either this year or next find the QB of the future
RE: Detach from your emotions  
Giants38 : 3/15/2019 2:58 pm : link
In comment 14340358 JonC said:
Quote:
and stop focusing on what you're being told via the media.

They've been tearing it down since DG took over, look at the roster.

It will take two years or more to strip it, and at least as long to restock it. While it's in progress, they're fielding the best team they can year to year and, of course, they're trying to win.

Enjoy the process, cease the insufferable whining.


Jon: They are not rebuilding while starting a 38 year old QB. And - as the Sixers learned in basketball - you need top picks to accelerate the process. In basketball it’s to get stars. In football, it’s to get QBs.

Well, we had the 2 pick last year, and that was a no go for a QB. Now this year, it’s evidently a no go for one of the top guys. Incredibly, they seem to like Daniel Jones because he is a very poor man’s Eli clone. Evidently they will only push Eli out for an Eli clone and as a way to revere him when he’s gone.

You can’t rebuild and want to win games at the same time. That’s just not how it works. Now if they trade up for Murray, I’ll admit defeat on that point. They won’t though. I’m not that lucky.
RE: With the knuckleheads gone  
Thegratefulhead : 3/15/2019 2:59 pm : link
In comment 14340393 JonC said:
Quote:
I believe we'll have a team we want to root for again, and they'll play the game the right way. It all feeds into playing well as units, limiting the mental and physical errors, and playing clean, crisp football.
YES!
Guys please read between the lines  
dep026 : 3/15/2019 2:59 pm : link
With this poster.

The only rhing he posts about is Eli. It’s not about a rebuild or making smart deals. He just whines about Eli.
You have fun  
JonC : 3/15/2019 3:00 pm : link
torturing yourself. I tried.
RE: making nate soldier  
giants#1 : 3/15/2019 3:02 pm : link
In comment 14340429 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
the highest paid OL in league last year... doesn't constitute rebuilding since they got here...
they added parts to make a run last year--- they added parts that would help Eli... this year they are turning things over a bit more but with similar thoughts in mind... to try to still make a run... to try to help Eli.

the optimist in me says they will nail 3-4 draft picks again, and with the abundance of cap space next year, be able to rebuild the roster... and either this year or next find the QB of the future


Some of these are moves they had to make regardless. The OL was complete garbage. It doesn't matter who is/was playing QB, they had to address that.
RE: You have fun  
dep026 : 3/15/2019 3:02 pm : link
In comment 14340443 JonC said:
Quote:
torturing yourself. I tried.


He’s started about 100 threads this offseason about everyone here wants Eli long term. Just weird.
RE: ...  
Boy Cord : 3/15/2019 3:03 pm : link
In comment 14340318 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
If you think jtgiants has good contacts, they insist they are not rebuilding.


If the front office and coaching staff think they are in the process of reloading and not rebuilding, the Giants are in deep trouble. This is a tear down and the next two drafts and 2020 FA are the keys to success.

Worst WR corps in the NFL and the defense doesn’t appear to be much better.
giants#1  
YANKEE28 : 3/15/2019 3:03 pm : link
Probably the best post I have seen all year.

You are EXACTLY right. Eli is our QB in 2019. We have a ton of draft picks to fix areas OTHER than QB.

Use them wisely, keep taking the true BPA and worry about the QB situation in 2020.
RE: making nate soldier  
JonC : 3/15/2019 3:03 pm : link
In comment 14340429 hitdog42 said:
Quote:
the highest paid OL in league last year... doesn't constitute rebuilding since they got here...
they added parts to make a run last year--- they added parts that would help Eli... this year they are turning things over a bit more but with similar thoughts in mind... to try to still make a run... to try to help Eli.

the optimist in me says they will nail 3-4 draft picks again, and with the abundance of cap space next year, be able to rebuild the roster... and either this year or next find the QB of the future


I don't disagree they're caught between one or the other if we're looking at in terms of black or white, Eli goes or we're not rebuilding type of perspective. But, how much of the roster has been turned over so far, 80%+
RE: Dear god  
Giants38 : 3/15/2019 3:04 pm : link
In comment 14340372 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
I have only been aware of Giants38 posts today adn already your act is getting old. They are retooling, rebuilding whatever you want to call it already. The fact that OBJ is gone for picks adn a player says that. The fact that in the last year Harrison, Apple, Flowers, Hart, Collins, JPP, Pugh, Richburg etc are all gone says they are rebuilding/retooling.

Your act is a one card hand, Eli is the reason they are not rebuilding. Somebody has to play QB this year regardless. A Young QB needs a vet to show the way if you want to follow KC's way from last two seasons (draft a guy and sit behind vet). The Giants didn't draft a QB last year because Barkley was considered that good. He won ROY so I guess he is fucking good..

We have 12 picks in the draft and FA is still in session... Give it time first but, just because you rebuild doesn't mean you can't try and win too!


I don’t care what you think of my act. Are my posts any dumber than those people who foolishly believe we are winning 7-9 games this year? You may not like my posts, but that doesn’t mean they are any more off base than most on this site. Please tell me what I’ve said that is so wrong.

I want Eli off this team. Maybe the saddest part of all this - in addition to DG dragging down a once proud franchise - is the now nationwide beating Eli is taking. For all of you who really love Eli, how could you want to see him go out this way? To see him mocked by everyone everywhere? To see his record go below .500. To watch a guy who was once a candidate for a first ballot HOF now need to fight to get his way in. All because fans can’t let go of the past. I want you to think about that for a second before you seek to run it back so quickly.
If it takes two or more years  
mattyblue : 3/15/2019 3:05 pm : link
to rebuild Gettleman is pretty awful. I am not talking about building the Patriots dynasty here, but if it takes Gettleman a total of 4 years to get to a competitive team that’s awful. Certain franchises, basically the AFC East minus the Patriots, manage to suck for decades. Look what Dorsey did in 15 months. You can’t burn all the rookie contracts from last year trying to figure out how to play decent football. In two or more years from now, Shurmur will without a doubt be gone if things continue as they have. So then does it take longer because you need a new coach?
RE: RE: making nate soldier  
hitdog42 : 3/15/2019 3:08 pm : link
In comment 14340453 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 14340429 hitdog42 said:


Quote:


the highest paid OL in league last year... doesn't constitute rebuilding since they got here...
they added parts to make a run last year--- they added parts that would help Eli... this year they are turning things over a bit more but with similar thoughts in mind... to try to still make a run... to try to help Eli.

the optimist in me says they will nail 3-4 draft picks again, and with the abundance of cap space next year, be able to rebuild the roster... and either this year or next find the QB of the future



I don't disagree they're caught between one or the other if we're looking at in terms of black or white, Eli goes or we're not rebuilding type of perspective. But, how much of the roster has been turned over so far, 80%+


fair and dont disagree
RE: Guys please read between the lines  
Giants38 : 3/15/2019 3:09 pm : link
In comment 14340441 dep026 said:
Quote:
With this poster.

The only rhing he posts about is Eli. It’s not about a rebuild or making smart deals. He just whines about Eli.


That’s what you don’t get. I “whine” about Eli BECAUSE of what it signifies. It signifies that this organization has no direction. The vets in Carolina despised DG there too. Was he getting rid of the rot there?

This team needs a new direction. We aren’t doing that until we move on from Eli. You can call me what you want. If you don’t see that, too, then you’re as naive as they come.
Why does  
mattyblue : 3/15/2019 3:13 pm : link
Eli need to be brought up and argued about when talking about a rebuild?
RE: Detach from your emotions  
joeinpa : 3/15/2019 3:13 pm : link
In comment 14340358 JonC said:
Quote:
and stop focusing on what you're being told via the media.

They've been tearing it down since DG took over, look at the roster.

It will take two years or more to strip it, and at least as long to restock it. While it's in progress, they're fielding the best team they can year to year and, of course, they're trying to win.

Enjoy the process, cease the insufferable whining.


Exactly
G38 -  
Diver_Down : 3/15/2019 3:15 pm : link
For you it is clear, Eli must be gone. Fine you are entitled to your opinion. But an earlier comment in this thread by you outlined a few prospects. You want a specific type. Any QB outside of your defined ideal is met with derision. How is that appropriate? You want Eli gone, but don't want to accept any QB outside of your ideals.
RE: RE: You have fun  
Thegratefulhead : 3/15/2019 3:17 pm : link
In comment 14340448 dep026 said:
Quote:
In comment 14340443 JonC said:


Quote:


torturing yourself. I tried.



He’s started about 100 threads this offseason about everyone here wants Eli long term. Just weird.
To be fair, Strawman runs rampant on this site both in favor and against Eli.
you're aways rebuilding  
bc4life : 3/15/2019 3:20 pm : link
it's just a difference in urgency and speed
If we’re “out of it” by the trade deadline  
The_Boss : 3/15/2019 3:24 pm : link
He may finally see the error of his ways and do a firesale 2.0. They’ll ride Eli off into the sunset and then take it apart.
RE: G38 -  
Giants38 : 3/15/2019 3:25 pm : link
In comment 14340476 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
For you it is clear, Eli must be gone. Fine you are entitled to your opinion. But an earlier comment in this thread by you outlined a few prospects. You want a specific type. Any QB outside of your defined ideal is met with derision. How is that appropriate? You want Eli gone, but don't want to accept any QB outside of your ideals.


That’s not what I said. I don’t have a specific “type”. I like Haskins - a pocket passer - and Murray - a much smaller QB who can do it all. To be clear, it is aggravating to me that the Giants seem blindly committed to Eli for the sake of it - not because it is what is best for the team.

But fine. I won’t start anymore threads or draft anymore posts. I’ll let you all chime in about how good the Giants will be this season as, in your heads, we fight for that PO spot.
RE: RE: Guys please read between the lines  
dep026 : 3/15/2019 3:28 pm : link
In comment 14340467 Giants38 said:
Quote:
In comment 14340441 dep026 said:


Quote:


With this poster.

The only rhing he posts about is Eli. It’s not about a rebuild or making smart deals. He just whines about Eli.



That’s what you don’t get. I “whine” about Eli BECAUSE of what it signifies. It signifies that this organization has no direction. The vets in Carolina despised DG there too. Was he getting rid of the rot there?

This team needs a new direction. We aren’t doing that until we move on from Eli. You can call me what you want. If you don’t see that, too, then you’re as naive as they come.


There’s no direction? You mean getting rid of all the malcontents and players who are more known for their social media takes than their playmaking abilities? You mean rebuilding on the OL and DL with a tremendous RB?

There’s a direction and it’s plain as day to see. It’s been apparent since DG took over. You may not like it and it may not work but if you stop crying about Eli every day, you will see it.
team has direction Gettleman tells you he's going to do  
bc4life : 3/15/2019 3:30 pm : link
First major quote - "We have to fix the Oline". Few misssteps but they are a right tackle away form the horrendous Oline from two years ago.

This year's major quote was about the failure of defense to make stops. competent safety tandem, got rid of Vernon talented but overpaid player. and the draft will defeinitely be front 7 heavy.

he did say he wans't goin to trade Odell, but things change. People take the wedding vows and the divorce rate in the country is about 50%. I don't understand why people blast DG for changing his mind.
RE: RE: G38 -  
Diver_Down : 3/15/2019 3:32 pm : link
In comment 14340517 Giants38 said:
Quote:
In comment 14340476 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


For you it is clear, Eli must be gone. Fine you are entitled to your opinion. But an earlier comment in this thread by you outlined a few prospects. You want a specific type. Any QB outside of your defined ideal is met with derision. How is that appropriate? You want Eli gone, but don't want to accept any QB outside of your ideals.



That’s not what I said. I don’t have a specific “type”. I like Haskins - a pocket passer - and Murray - a much smaller QB who can do it all. To be clear, it is aggravating to me that the Giants seem blindly committed to Eli for the sake of it - not because it is what is best for the team.

But fine. I won’t start anymore threads or draft anymore posts. I’ll let you all chime in about how good the Giants will be this season as, in your heads, we fight for that PO spot.


Are you sure? I don't want to have to copy/paste your words to prove my point. If you are being honest with yourself, you are critical of Jones because he looks like Eli.

That is contradictory to your intent of this thread. A rebuild only starts when Eli is gone. So if Eli is gone and Jones is next in line, do we have to wait for you to like the QB in order to classify it as a "rebuild".
RE: RE: RE: G38 -  
Giants38 : 3/15/2019 3:44 pm : link
In comment 14340545 Diver_Down said:
Quote:
In comment 14340517 Giants38 said:


Quote:


In comment 14340476 Diver_Down said:


Quote:


For you it is clear, Eli must be gone. Fine you are entitled to your opinion. But an earlier comment in this thread by you outlined a few prospects. You want a specific type. Any QB outside of your defined ideal is met with derision. How is that appropriate? You want Eli gone, but don't want to accept any QB outside of your ideals.



That’s not what I said. I don’t have a specific “type”. I like Haskins - a pocket passer - and Murray - a much smaller QB who can do it all. To be clear, it is aggravating to me that the Giants seem blindly committed to Eli for the sake of it - not because it is what is best for the team.

But fine. I won’t start anymore threads or draft anymore posts. I’ll let you all chime in about how good the Giants will be this season as, in your heads, we fight for that PO spot.



Are you sure? I don't want to have to copy/paste your words to prove my point. If you are being honest with yourself, you are critical of Jones because he looks like Eli.

That is contradictory to your intent of this thread. A rebuild only starts when Eli is gone. So if Eli is gone and Jones is next in line, do we have to wait for you to like the QB in order to classify it as a "rebuild".


I’m not critical of Jones because he looks like Eli. I’m critical of Jones because of how he plays. If he had Eli’s talent, I’d be all for taking him. I think this team is going to take Jones in deference to Eli. It’s more about Eli. Eli has a relationship with him. Eli likes him. It’ continues to be all about Eli with a Jones selection. We need a clean break from that nonsense.
People are ridiculous when talking  
mattyblue : 3/15/2019 3:46 pm : link
about Eli, some defend him endlessly, some crucify him at every chance. I have been guilty of it myself at times. I really think people should try to leave that alone until next season. The decision appears to be made. I find Alex Tanney on this roster way more annoying than Eli. Try to trade Lauretta if you want, if not and Ei gets hurt play Lauretta they fucking drafted him. I would actually them rather play Davis Webb and I don’t actually know why, I just feel like Lauletta has no shot in the NFL. Webb doesn’t either probably. He’s just more interesting. Tanney what’s the point? He might as well be on the staff and not the roster.
No SUCH THING AS REBUILD IN NFL  
Foobarbaz : 3/15/2019 3:50 pm : link
Players have a 4 year contracts, only 1 or 2 players are good from the draft....so in 5 years you maybe have 6 players good....they will want huge contacts like odell wanted....
NFL is win NOW. Browns rebuilded their team in 2 years...they went 1-15, 0-16 then boom now they are a playoff team. This isnt the 60s anymore, rebuild is a year or two max, look at eagles and pats they rebuild in a year or two max
I Believe This is Code For "Dumping Eli"  
Bernie : 3/15/2019 4:03 pm : link
apparently rebuilding begins and ends with that singular move.
.  
arcarsenal : 3/15/2019 4:06 pm : link
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